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Ⅿ- Mandalorian Series! (2 Viewers)

KarmaPolice said:
With all the money Disney has, and this was basically the only show they had for launch in the hyped Marvel and Star Wars universe that they have the monopoly on,  I can see people being a little down on the production value and the length of the episodes for a non-comedy show.   

I think I said it, but to me this has a feel like they had an idea for a Madalorian/Bounty Hunter movie, but used it for this and needed a little filler to get to 8 episodes or 4-5 hours worth.  
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But I don't think the production value is that far down.  Episodes are around 36 minutes each.  That works out to almost 5 hours for the season, if my math is right and it's probably not.  That works out to about two movies.  TFA cost almost half a billion to make.  So to make a TV series that looks as good and has as many fun things as the movies would've cost them a billion dollars.  I mean, there's just no way that would ever happen.  

First off, they didn't know if people would subscribe.  Secondly, they didn't know if people would like a SW television show.  So it's a gamble.  Honestly, I think they went big for such a gamble.  And I'm sure we'll see season 2 be grander.  But these shows will never be the same as the movies.  Same for the upcoming Marvel movies.  Until these shows start bringing in more money than the movies, expect them to be slightly lower quality and filled with less "fun" new things.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
I get what you are saying - I am sure some of the cheapness was a calculated assessment since they didn't know 100% how many subscribers they would have for Disney+.     
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I don't know if I'd call anything about this show cheap, GB.  I don't know if they'd ever release the figures (or if they already have), but I'm guessing it's probably one of the most expensive shows every made.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
I don't know if I'd call anything about this show cheap, GB.  I don't know if they'd ever release the figures (or if they already have), but I'm guessing it's probably one of the most expensive shows every made.  
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Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
But I don't think the production value is that far down.  Episodes are around 36 minutes each.  That works out to almost 5 hours for the season, if my math is right and it's probably not.  That works out to about two movies.  TFA cost almost half a billion to make.  So to make a TV series that looks as good and has as many fun things as the movies would've cost them a billion dollars.  I mean, there's just no way that would ever happen.  

First off, they didn't know if people would subscribe.  Secondly, they didn't know if people would like a SW television show.  So it's a gamble.  Honestly, I think they went big for such a gamble.  And I'm sure we'll see season 2 be grander.  But these shows will never be the same as the movies.  Same for the upcoming Marvel movies.  Until these shows start bringing in more money than the movies, expect them to be slightly lower quality and filled with less "fun" new things.  
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As a huge fan of Buffy, I also need to keep in mind to pump the breaks a little about S1 of any show and give them the benefit of the doubt.  

I get the bolded and agree.  I don't think people are comparing it to the new movies, more what they are used to from the current wave of TV shows - and the bar is pretty damn high as far as that goes.  But yes, we need to keep in mind this is the first big show from a first timer in the streaming business, no matter what what type of money Disney has in general.  It's not like they are going to risk 100% of their budget on a handful of TV shows or anything - it's probably mostly going to be to keep the revenue stream and interest going for merchandise and tie-ins for the upcoming movies.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  
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Baby Yoda not being CGI was one of the best decisions they made on making this show.

 
KarmaPolice said:
Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  
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This is no longer true.  It went from 24 eps a season.  Down to 12.  Then to 10.  And now most are coming out with 8 eps a season.  I hate it, personally, but that's the new norm.

 
Bull Dozier said:
Baby Yoda not being CGI was one of the best decisions they made on making this show.
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I will always give kudos when it's practical over CGI.  I am just surprised when IMO something looks worse than a similar things from many years ago.  This happens to me when I watch the original Jurassic Park and think about big budget movies now (even ones in that series).   Similar is happening with baby Yoda vs Yoda from Empire 30+ years ago.  Just looks weird and plastic-y to me.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
This is no longer true.  It went from 24 eps a season.  Down to 12.  Then to 10.  And now most are coming out with 8 eps a season.  I hate it, personally, but that's the new norm.
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The quality’s gotten better overall though. I’ll take a 10 episode breaking bad season any day over a 24 episode Lost season. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
This is no longer true.  It went from 24 eps a season.  Down to 12.  Then to 10.  And now most are coming out with 8 eps a season.  I hate it, personally, but that's the new norm.
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What is doing this? (I guess GOT did the 8 episode thing, but they were longer).   I thought most I watch are still sitting in that 10-13 episode range besides the weird way BBC does their shows.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
What is doing this? (I guess GOT did the 8 episode thing, but they were longer).   I thought most I watch are still sitting in that 10-13 episode range besides the weird way BBC does their shows.  
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Stranger Things comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are a bunch of others.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Stranger Things comes to mind first, but I'm sure there are a bunch of others.
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The Jack Ryan series on Amazon is also 8 episodes for each of the first two seasons.

For tight seasonal arc based shows like Ryan and Stranger Things, a shorter episode number is nice for story telling.

No arc has yet emerged on The Mandalorian, which in part is likely due to only being 30 minutes vs these other hour long shows so they can't tell as much of a story over only 4 episodes.

It may be that the story won't be season based on The Mandalorian.  Maybe the story emerges more over multiple seasons.  I did see a quote from one of the producers saying they intend to lay things out slowly and don't intend to give answers in any defined time period so we probably just need to wait it out.

 
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A question to bigger SW nerds than me:

At this point in the SW story, who owns the Darksaber?  Do you think we'll get to see it in this series?  Because I would love to see how they depict it in a real life show.

 
KarmaPolice said:
Wtf is a Darksaber? 
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So there was a Mandalorian who was also part of the Jedi order.  Which is odd, because these two groups pretty much are like oil and water.  In fact, most of the armor you see on the Mandalorians was developed to help them fight the Jedis.  But the Darksabre was a light saber that was created for this Mandalorian/Jedi.  It is black like it's void of color.  And it's shaped differently than the others.  It's pretty badass.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
But I don't think the production value is that far down.  Episodes are around 36 minutes each.  That works out to almost 5 hours for the season, if my math is right and it's probably not.  That works out to about two movies.  TFA cost almost half a billion to make.  So to make a TV series that looks as good and has as many fun things as the movies would've cost them a billion dollars.  I mean, there's just no way that would ever happen.  

First off, they didn't know if people would subscribe.  Secondly, they didn't know if people would like a SW television show.  So it's a gamble.  Honestly, I think they went big for such a gamble.  And I'm sure we'll see season 2 be grander.  But these shows will never be the same as the movies.  Same for the upcoming Marvel movies.  Until these shows start bringing in more money than the movies, expect them to be slightly lower quality and filled with less "fun" new things.  
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Comparing it to the movies is silly.  They're not paying movie actors, they have barely any (none?) recurring characters beyond the main, there aren't any space battles, any lightsaber duels that require complex choreography and effects, Jon Williams isn't doing the score, etc.

There are a gajillion shows that do hour long episodes, including basically every other non-animated show of this type, most of them with higher production values than this.  It doesn't cost a billion dollars.  I don't disagree that budget was a concern in the shorter episodes, but comparing them to the cost of a huge budget movie is a stretch.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Comparing it to the movies is silly.  They're not paying movie actors, they have barely any (none?) recurring characters beyond the main, there aren't any space battles, any lightsaber duels that require complex choreography and effects, Jon Williams isn't doing the score, etc.

There are a gajillion shows that do hour long episodes, including basically every other non-animated show of this type, most of them with higher production values than this.  It doesn't cost a billion dollars.  I don't disagree that budget was a concern in the shorter episodes, but comparing them to the cost of a huge budget movie is a stretch.
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The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.

 
TheIronSheik said:
The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.
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I am skeptical of a lot of these numbers quoted by various sources.   Something as basic as The Morning Show, the new Apple show, is also supposedly clocking in at $15m* an episode.

Either production costs have SKYROCKETED in the past few years or people in charge are being a little loose with the numbers to help promote their products.

*https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/apples-bumpy-tv-launch-inside-tech-giants-impending-arrival-hollywood-1247577

 
Wow.  If that 15M is accurate I am surprised by that.  Wtf is that money going then? Big little lies had big name actors.  GOT had huge sets and rising actor costs.  Not to mention both have a longer run time.  

 
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KarmaPolice said:
Wow.  If that 15M is accurate I am surprised by that.  Wtf is that money going then? Big little lies had big name actors.  GOT had huge sets and rising actor costs.  Not to mention both have a longer run time.  
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Good CGI is not cheap.  The special effects in this are up to par with the movies.  Not many other TV shows can make that claim.  If any.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Keep in mind that I am a CGI grump, so I am guessing that plays into it. 

Just little things like I don't think baby Yoda looks great, some of the battle with the big rhino thingy, etc...  But I will concede that is me not liking CGI and not necessarily a function of the budget of the show.  Some of what I meant by cheapness is decision to keep the episodes short and so few.  Most shows non-comedy shows people are used to have the 45min-1hour length and have 10-13 episodes for a season.  
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The rhino thing wasn't CGI.  That was played by Kirstie Alley.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I think it's funny that people are upset episodes aren't an hour long.  The movies are 2 hours long and take years to make.  But you expect Disney to make an eight hour long season for a streaming service?  

Methinks some of the people's expectations are way too high.
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I would take an hour of baby Yoda playing with a light saber in his crib. I'm easy

 
TheIronSheik said:
The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.
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Yeah I didn't intend to say that they should spend more, rather that the notion that budget would make it impossible for a show like this to be an hour long per episode when basically every other show like this is an hour long per episode was a stretch, as it was to compare it to the cost of X hours of Star Wars movies.

That said, man if they are really spending $15 million per episode on this they are getting ripped off by someone in the chain.  Game of Thrones I'm sure was paying exponentially more for their actors and the last few seasons had effects that blow this show out of the water.

TheIronSheik said:
Good CGI is not cheap.  The special effects in this are up to par with the movies.  Not many other TV shows can make that claim.  If any.  
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As I mentioned above, the special effects in the last few season of GoT make the effects in this show look like a 7th grade TV productions project.

 
Disney has been investigated for cooking their books lately. I wouldn't trust anything they say when it comes to cost or earnings.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Yeah I didn't intend to say that they should spend more, rather that the notion that budget would make it impossible for a show like this to be an hour long per episode when basically every other show like this is an hour long per episode was a stretch, as it was to compare it to the cost of X hours of Star Wars movies.

That said, man if they are really spending $15 million per episode on this they are getting ripped off by someone in the chain.  Game of Thrones I'm sure was paying exponentially more for their actors and the last few seasons had effects that blow this show out of the water.

As I mentioned above, the special effects in the last few season of GoT make the effects in this show look like a 7th grade TV productions project.
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I didn't mean it as an attack on you, GB.  I was just stating the numbers.  

Now, I didn't watch GoT but I did see an article that said the special effects for TM were hugely superior to GoT.  This was from an insider of the industry, but I can't verify the claim in anyway.  They did point to a scene in GoT that was supposed to be their biggest and best scene of the final season.  A war of some sort that people complained was too dark for anything to be seen.  Again, I don't know how much good CGI v. bad CGI costs.  And I didn't watch GoT to be able to judge.  Just going off what I read on this.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I didn't mean it as an attack on you, GB.  I was just stating the numbers.  

Now, I didn't watch GoT but I did see an article that said the special effects for TM were hugely superior to GoT.  This was from an insider of the industry, but I can't verify the claim in anyway.  They did point to a scene in GoT that was supposed to be their biggest and best scene of the final season.  A war of some sort that people complained was too dark for anything to be seen.  Again, I don't know how much good CGI v. bad CGI costs.  And I didn't watch GoT to be able to judge.  Just going off what I read on this.
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The dark scenes in GOT was a poor (imo) artistic choice, it had nothing to do with production costs.

 
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Not to mention that was only one of several major battles onscreen (the others of which weren't dark) that would have probably been a contender for best CGI of the year in a movie, much less against other TV shows.

 
Baby Yoda is cool, but where are they going with it? With how slowly it ages, by the time it’s mature enough to fend for itself the Mandalorian will be long gone. It’s a decent sidekick, but it just leaves me wanting more.

 
sports_fan said:
Baby Yoda is cool, but where are they going with it? With how slowly it ages, by the time it’s mature enough to fend for itself the Mandalorian will be long gone. It’s a decent sidekick, but it just leaves me wanting more.
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Agreed, long term story line seems unlikely...good thing my plush toy will be here by May 27th!

 
sports_fan said:
They won’t kill it. If they could leave it behind on a remote planet in the wilderness with a caring family that would be ideal.
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It looks like baby yoda will be in season 2 according a spoiler Rian Johnson may have mistakenly given during an interview.

 
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TheIronSheik said:
The cost per episode has been listed at $15 million an episode, which ties it with GoT and Big Little Lies as the most expensive show per episode ever made.  Westworld and a couple others are tied for second coming in just over $10 million an episode.  

So Disney has essentially just made the most expensive show ever made for TV on a platform that is unproven yet and for a series that no one knew if it would be liked or not.

So while it might be a stretch to compare it straight up against a film, my point remains:  How much money should they have spent on this series?  Because right now they have spent $120 million on this series.  That's about half the cost of an actual SW film.  A quarter of a billion dollars.  Just seems odd to think that's not good enough.
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Disney+ needed to kick things off with a bang.  totally worth the money.  Disney market cap is 260'ish billion.   it was worth it for them to take a shot to get star wars fans locked into their platform.  

 
ILUVBEER99 said:
Disney+ needed to kick things off with a bang.  totally worth the money.  Disney market cap is 260'ish billion.   it was worth it for them to take a shot to get star wars fans locked into their platform.  
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And they did.  I don't think throwing more money at it would've brought in more viewers.

 
I'm going to go back and watch the "History of the Mandolrians" as told by Clones and Rebels.  If anyone is interested, it's as follows:

The Clone Wars –

                Season 2 –

                                Episode 12 – The Mandalore Plot

                                Episode 13 – Voyage of Temptation

                                Episode 14 – Duchess of Mandalore

Season 3 –

                                Episode 5 – Corruption

                                Episode 6 – The Academy

                Season 4 –

                                Episode 14 – A Friend in Need

                Season 5 –

                                Episode 14 - Eminence

                                Episode 15 – Shades of Reason

                                Episode 16 – The Lawless

Rebels –

                Season 2 –

                                Episode 13 – The Protector of Concord Dawn

                Season 3 –

                                Episode 7 – Imperial Supercommandos

                                Episode 15 – Trials of the Darksaber

                                Episode 16 – Legacy of Mandalore

                Season 4 –

                                Episode 1 – Heroes of Mandalore Part 1

                                Episode 2 - Heroes of Mandalore Part 2

I watched the first one last night and had no idea that Jon Favreau was the voice of Pre Vizsla.  Can totally hear it now.  Apparently he was fascinated with the Mandalorian back story so he was a perfect fit for writing this.  Also, I'm going to say now that I know this information, I'd be willing to bet we definitely see the Darksaber, considering Pre Vizsla used to wield it.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I'm going to go back and watch the "History of the Mandolrians" as told by Clones and Rebels. 
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The previously unfinished 7th season of Clone Wars is about to be released on Disney+... I think there is a fair amount of Mandolin content in that as well, specifically the Seige of Mandalore - which sounds fighty.

P.S. I want to watch all of the Palpatine arcs in TCW and Rebels before Episode 9 comes out... but I won't have time. 

 
Jaysus said:
The previously unfinished 7th season of Clone Wars is about to be released on Disney+... I think there is a fair amount of Mandolin content in that as well, specifically the Seige of Mandalore - which sounds fighty.

P.S. I want to watch all of the Palpatine arcs in TCW and Rebels before Episode 9 comes out... but I won't have time. 
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I just realized I never saw the 6th season.  How did that sneak out past me without me knowing?  Much like every other show in my life now, when I watched this episode last night, it was like watching it for the first time.  I might have to go back and rewatch the entire series after doing the Mandalorian History eps.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
I just realized I never saw the 6th season.  How did that sneak out past me without me knowing?  Much like every other show in my life now, when I watched this episode last night, it was like watching it for the first time.  I might have to go back and rewatch the entire series after doing the Mandalorian History eps.  
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Maybe I meant the previously unfinished 6th season?

 
Jaysus said:
Maybe I meant the previously unfinished 6th season?
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No.  You're right.  I went and looked and apparently Netflix had season 6 all to itself.  But I never knew that.  I watched the first couple of seasons on Netflix until I was caught up, then watched the rest on the channel they were on.  I guess I missed it when they just released season 6 on Netflix.  

So now I have 2 seasons of TCW to watch, which is cool because that was my favorite series out of the two.

 
TheIronSheik said:
No.  You're right.  I went and looked and apparently Netflix had season 6 all to itself.  But I never knew that.  I watched the first couple of seasons on Netflix until I was caught up, then watched the rest on the channel they were on.  I guess I missed it when they just released season 6 on Netflix.  

So now I have 2 seasons of TCW to watch, which is cool because that was my favorite series out of the two.
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I really liked Rebels but I think part of that was my son being old enough to get it, and watching it together with him was fun. 

 
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