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⚽ Soccer Match-day Thread (2 Viewers)

otb_lifer said:
ok, work with me here ...

goal was in the bank. check. 

goal was overturned, due to the rule.  check. 

VAR facilitated the conundrum, and mandated the reversal.  check. 

so, how does it get reversed sans VAR?

was the constant hand wringing/soul searching after every ####### goal commonplace prior to this facacta ####? 

thanks, i'll hang up and listen. 
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It's really not worth getting into a back and forth over. 

I've watched enough soccer (even though not as much as some others have here) to have seen plenty of missed calls that decided games.  VAR is going to get those right.  I think VAR has its place and I'm overall happy with how it's been used in other settings leading up to this year.  I don't think VAR is the problem. 

If the rule is fixed/eliminated and you keep VAR, you will get the benefits of the times when the replay shows an obvious mistake that was missed on the field

If the rule is left and you eliminate VAR, you will sometimes still get the stupid calls and you will miss the benefits when replay shows an obvious mistake on the field.

I can't really explain it any simpler than that.  You had a bad beat gambling.  But the issue is much more as a result of the rule and not VAR. 

If I'm driving down a road that is 65 mph and there's a stretch of 200 yards by a school that drops it down to 5 mph and a cop pulls me over there, the problem is the 5mph law, not the cop.  He's just doing his job.  And I'm glad he's there because he's going to catch the idiots that keep going 65 mph.  I'd rather get the sign changed to 25 mph because it makes more sense than 5 mph.  But it's not the cops fault that it says 5 mph.  And even if I dislike cops, they are doing a service there.

I'm sorry you lost $$ today.  Blame VAR all you want.  It's still not the main problem here.

 
gianmarco said:
It's really not worth getting into a back and forth over. 

I've watched enough soccer (even though not as much as some others have here) to have seen plenty of missed calls that decided games.  VAR is going to get those right.  I think VAR has its place and I'm overall happy with how it's been used in other settings leading up to this year.  I don't think VAR is the problem. 

If the rule is fixed/eliminated and you keep VAR, you will get the benefits of the times when the replay shows an obvious mistake that was missed on the field

If the rule is left and you eliminate VAR, you will sometimes still get the stupid calls and you will miss the benefits when replay shows an obvious mistake on the field.

I can't really explain it any simpler than that.  You had a bad beat gambling.  But the issue is much more as a result of the rule and not VAR. 

If I'm driving down a road that is 65 mph and there's a stretch of 200 yards by a school that drops it down to 5 mph and a cop pulls me over there, the problem is the 5mph law, not the cop.  He's just doing his job.  And I'm glad he's there because he's going to catch the idiots that keep going 65 mph.  I'd rather get the sign changed to 25 mph because it makes more sense than 5 mph.  But it's not the cops fault that it says 5 mph.  And even if I dislike cops, they are doing a service there.

I'm sorry you lost $$ today.  Blame VAR all you want.  It's still not the main problem here.
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this is great window dressing, and i'm too ####faced to bulletpoint your thoughts ... but don't think i'm crying poverty 'cuz i lost coin - i cleaned the #### up on Arsenal and Liverpool (14 for 14 on my bets, on record in the wagering thread).

Footy has a billion ####### fans worldwide - losing me ain't gonna cripple the sport ... but VAR might. 

 
Christo said:
I'm tired of the teams with hoops and stripes on their jerseys putting a solid block behind the numbers.
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Zaha has underwhelmed so far today. 

Sheffield have played well...not getting troubled by palaces attack, and creating some chances through enterprise more than skill.

 
El Floppo said:
Yeah. Shouldn't be used to fine-toothed comb find stuff just in case something/anything possibly may have happened. Should be used because an official thinks they saw an infraction that the ref missed. Otherwise...let them play
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El Floppo said:
Madness.

Var shouldn't be about finding the smallest micro-infractions not visible to the eye in live action. It should be about catching and fixing the obvious missed stuff.
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Will hold until the end of time for me.

 
After a nice 10-15 minutes, Chelsea were second best the rest of the way and surprisingly out of sync lacking cohesive team shape- my bugaboo. They rarely won a second ball and allowed Leicester to carve through them left right and center with big gaps everywhere.

Credit to Leicester, but chels looked like a team of decent enough individuals who had never played together before without an idea of how they were supposed to. They'll need a lot more than hustle and heart from guys like mount if they want to compete for top 6...lamps may not last here if they don't show some direction.

Speaking of Mount... hustle, heart and a little bit of skill... But I really don't see this kid leading a top tier team. Lots of mistakes and lots of being out of position. I was shocked at how poor they were through the middle, considering kante was pushing in.

And unfortunately, I thought CP was terrible today. Lots of giveaways (again), no linking up, no successful driving at players or space and repeatedly getting easily beat on the first ball and letting that player run past him for the second 

 
Despite the draw to a good team, United looked good again.  A little sloppy at times but I did like the risk taking in their passing overall.  Trying to slip it through instead of back and around all the time.  United looked good in the fist half, slowed a little in the 2nd when Wolverhampton turned it up a little.  Nice goals by Martial and Neves.  Pogba with another missed PK (belt high 2 yards off center is not a good spot to go).  Not sure why Rashford or Martial didn't take it, but that's for Ole.  James looked soft and went down easy on occasions.  The booking was harsh since he did get tripped but hard to argue with when that was the send time he went down with minimal contact.  Back line looked solid again.  Shaw the weak link.  McT and Pogba are a nice pair inside.  

Can't wait until they get a proper 10 and get Lingard out of there.  He can not angle or weight a pass properly and has a tremendous lack of vision.  Its amazing.  Give Pereria a run in there or Mata.  But you can't just rely on a guy who's only there since he runs all over, sadly without reason. Had a costly miss too. I really don't get the love for him.  He works hard, sure, but its rarely smart work.  He isn't a finisher and is a horrible passer.

 
B Maverick said:
Despite the draw to a good team, United looked good again.  A little sloppy at times but I did like the risk taking in their passing overall.  Trying to slip it through instead of back and around all the time.  United looked good in the fist half, slowed a little in the 2nd when Wolverhampton turned it up a little.  Nice goals by Martial and Neves.  Pogba with another missed PK (belt high 2 yards off center is not a good spot to go).  Not sure why Rashford or Martial didn't take it, but that's for Ole.  James looked soft and went down easy on occasions.  The booking was harsh since he did get tripped but hard to argue with when that was the send time he went down with minimal contact.  Back line looked solid again.  Shaw the weak link.  McT and Pogba are a nice pair inside.  

Can't wait until they get a proper 10 and get Lingard out of there.  He can not angle or weight a pass properly and has a tremendous lack of vision.  Its amazing.  Give Pereria a run in there or Mata.  But you can't just rely on a guy who's only there since he runs all over, sadly without reason. Had a costly miss too. I really don't get the love for him.  He works hard, sure, but its rarely smart work.  He isn't a finisher and is a horrible passer.
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what about pogba as the 10, with pereira and mct behind him doing the dirty work?

 
El Floppo said:
what about pogba as the 10, with pereira and mct behind him doing the dirty work?
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Not sure.  He is one of the few that can perfectly weight a long pass from deep and also relieve pressure with his speed and strength dribbling out of the back.  The talk is always about getting him more forward but he and McT seem to be working well in there.  Both have freedom to get up and back and show they are true box to box guys.  And I am not sure Perreria (or Fred) can play the deeper role with McT so you end up with Matic and McT pushing Pogba forward.

I have a feeling we'll see it at some point as midweek games startup and rotation becomes important.  For now I do like what I see from the team, just missing a true 10.  And maybe need a little improvement out wide.  Can James grow into it?  Greenwood maybe? Dalot?

 
That Gooner kid on loan to Leeds (Leeds Leeds) scored another goal today as a sub.  This one was a slick finish after a great run - well done.  Leeds won 1-0.

 
B Maverick said:
Despite the draw to a good team, United looked good again.  A little sloppy at times but I did like the risk taking in their passing overall.  Trying to slip it through instead of back and around all the time.  United looked good in the fist half, slowed a little in the 2nd when Wolverhampton turned it up a little.  Nice goals by Martial and Neves.  Pogba with another missed PK (belt high 2 yards off center is not a good spot to go).  Not sure why Rashford or Martial didn't take it, but that's for Ole.  James looked soft and went down easy on occasions.  The booking was harsh since he did get tripped but hard to argue with when that was the send time he went down with minimal contact.  Back line looked solid again.  Shaw the weak link.  McT and Pogba are a nice pair inside.  

Can't wait until they get a proper 10 and get Lingard out of there.  He can not angle or weight a pass properly and has a tremendous lack of vision.  Its amazing.  Give Pereria a run in there or Mata.  But you can't just rely on a guy who's only there since he runs all over, sadly without reason. Had a costly miss too. I really don't get the love for him.  He works hard, sure, but its rarely smart work.  He isn't a finisher and is a horrible passer.
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Pogba drew the pk, he took the pk.  Same as game 1, Rashford drew the penalty, took the spot kick.  Pretty simple really.  

Pogba best player on the team, I know he's missed a number of pk's, but I mean, you going to tell him no there after he won the penalty?  I wouldn't.  I'm fine with the decision for him to take it, he made a bad pk, it happens.

Agree that United looked good.  I was pleased with the game.  Took a wonder strike by Neves for Wolves to score, I think United was the better side and Wolves always seems to play the top 6 tough.  A win would have been better, but encouraging all the same.

Mata is absolute ####.  He came on and was terrible.  

It would be nice to have Dalot play in Shaw's place because the game turned on a dime when Wolves brought on Adama Traore who may very well be the fastest player in the world, and guess which side he attacked?  Yeah, fat boys side.  Took United a while to adjust, but the damage had already been done as he created most chances and the corner that setup their goal.  Ole has to learn that Shaw is fine as an attacking fullback, but he's fat, slow as #### and other teams will exploit this.  Ole also made a critical mistake in that Shaw's cover for the game was Ashley Young who is not exactly speed in his own right.  We can only hope they learn.

And I know I'm probably the only person that follows Club America, but their loss to Tigres in the semi's in the new cup tournament wtf it's called was crushing.  They fielded a very depleted side against a full Tigres team.  They went down a man.  They scored a great goal to go up 2-1 late, and the very last touch of the game was a disgusting OG off a throw in ffs.  In fact, both of Tigres's goals were own goals.  CA lost in pk's because first choice gk was transferred to Porto last month and new boy Ochoa was on the bench.  Bascially a b-side lost, but a win woulda been great.  They get them again this weekend tho in Mexico.

 
Fwiw...that's not how pk taking decision is made. Players know before the game who's taking it. If a guys on a hat trick and the games in hand, they can sort it out on the field. Otherwise, Pogba was assigned to be the PK taker for that game before the opening whistle.

 
El Floppo said:
Fwiw...that's not how pk taking decision is made. Players know before the game who's taking it. If a guys on a hat trick and the games in hand, they can sort it out on the field. Otherwise, Pogba was assigned to be the PK taker for that game before the opening whistle.
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That's the controversy, OGS said the team had two designated PK takers.  

And if it's really a case where Ole feels they are both similarly competent, that's fine IMO.  There are other benefits to giving players some agency on the pitch.  OGS is going to take heat over it, but that's his job.  

Man U and Arsenal are in similar spots where I'd rather them play well and drop some points due to luck than watch them play meh and get three points.  Eventually, good teams learn how to do the second (Sir Alex's Man U teams were the absolute masters of it), but I think the OGS's early winning streak, which was kind of fluky, set Man U. back. 

 
guru_007 said:
Pogba drew the pk, he took the pk.  Same as game 1, Rashford drew the penalty, took the spot kick.  Pretty simple really.  

Pogba best player on the team, I know he's missed a number of pk's, but I mean, you going to tell him no there after he won the penalty?  I wouldn't.  I'm fine with the decision for him to take it, he made a bad pk, it happens.

Agree that United looked good.  I was pleased with the game.  Took a wonder strike by Neves for Wolves to score, I think United was the better side and Wolves always seems to play the top 6 tough.  A win would have been better, but encouraging all the same.

Mata is absolute ####.  He came on and was terrible.  

It would be nice to have Dalot play in Shaw's place because the game turned on a dime when Wolves brought on Adama Traore who may very well be the fastest player in the world, and guess which side he attacked?  Yeah, fat boys side.  Took United a while to adjust, but the damage had already been done as he created most chances and the corner that setup their goal.  Ole has to learn that Shaw is fine as an attacking fullback, but he's fat, slow as #### and other teams will exploit this.  Ole also made a critical mistake in that Shaw's cover for the game was Ashley Young who is not exactly speed in his own right.  We can only hope they learn.
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I definitely agree with the bolded and have been yelling that at my radio as the pundits try and make more out of it then there is.  Pogba won it, wants to get his goal, he takes it.   It really is that simple.  If he makes it there is no "controversy" and we aren't hearing about it from Neville or anyone else.  He missed, they didn't get the 3 points and its an ongoing topic, especially since its Pogba. And now we are talking about that miss instead of Lingard's sitter that he missed.  Make either of them and they win and no one is talking about it.

Any yes, Pogba is the best player on the team BUT he is statistically the worst PK taker.  4 misses in the last year is not good enough for a guy with that talent.  Esp with PKs favoring the shooter so wildly.  Ole has a decision to make, does he continue or designate one?

Dalot would be a better bench option, being able to cover both outside backs and the wings.  But we will be subjected to Captain Young until he leaves the club. 

Mata is better then Lingard.  Hard to impact a game in 10 mins though.  At the moment, giving Gomes or Perreria a run would be better then Lingard.  All of those guys bring hard work.  Hopefully one of the 3 will give better passing, runs, vision, scoring then what Lingard does.

 
checking the Chelsea reddit sub ... good lawd, bridge jumpers galore up in there - they have very little use for Pulisic.

@NewlyRetired - been chronicling my EPL bets in the wagering thread - you mentioned wanting to know if i was doing it for EPL - answer is YES. 

 
Shaw goes out with a fat guy injury. Shocking

Edit: ok, he had a quick chocolate bar and is gonna try to run it off

 
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