Amused to Death
Footballguy
I know right? Look at all those fools who started Charles this week too. FFL rooks I tells ya.
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✍ Knowshon Moreno to season ending IR. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BigSteelThrill
- Start date
Touchdown There
Footballguy
RIGHT - The comparison to Jamaal Charles is exactly the same as Moreno. I know I drafted Moreno in round 1. Excellent work there.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
Exactly! Why can't my leagues be filled with guys who think like this guy? Is win championships every year!Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'll be looking for TT's thread about RBs that will be injured in week 3 so I can sit them.Exactly! Why can't my leagues be filled with guys who think like this guy? Is win championships every year!Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
purestrength
Footballguy
I started Moreno in several leagues in Week 1. Started him over the likes of Gore, Pierce, Ridley, Miller, Jones-Drew ... basically anyone who wasn't drafted in the first five rounds. I liked the results.
I did the same thing in Week 2. I did not like the results.
I will hold & hope for a Week 7 return, but it's very disappointing. Knowshon looked soooo good against New England.
I did the same thing in Week 2. I did not like the results.
I will hold & hope for a Week 7 return, but it's very disappointing. Knowshon looked soooo good against New England.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Droppable from shallow benches in redraft? Or do you take a wait and see approach and look for more time table news?
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I was very clear before the season started that Moreno was a wasted draft pick. Nearly no one started him week one, but the 17% who did probably did so because they took a guy like Ray Rice in the 5th on draft day and just wanted to ride out the first two weeks. Most redrafts do not have IR spots, so if you are a Moreno believer you now have a decision to make on whether or not the Dolphins #2 RB is going to sit on your fantasy roster for 4-6 weeks with a guaranteed 0 or if you are going to drop him.I'll be looking for TT's thread about RBs that will be injured in week 3 so I can sit them.Exactly! Why can't my leagues be filled with guys who think like this guy? Is win championships every year!Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
So you knew he would be injured in week 2? How else would he be considered a wasted pick since he was clearly the lead back in Miami prior to getting hurt? But you say Charles wasn't a wasted pick even though he bombed in week 1 and got injured the same week as Moreno. You were clearly wrong about Moreno in week 1 and you can not claim he's a bust because of injury. Unless you claimed he was an injury risk. Did you warn people Mark Ingram would be a wasted pick as well?I was very clear before the season started that Moreno was a wasted draft pick. Nearly no one started him week one, but the 17% who did probably did so because they took a guy like Ray Rice in the 5th on draft day and just wanted to ride out the first two weeks. Most redrafts do not have IR spots, so if you are a Moreno believer you now have a decision to make on whether or not the Dolphins #2 RB is going to sit on your fantasy roster for 4-6 weeks with a guaranteed 0 or if you are going to drop him.I'll be looking for TT's thread about RBs that will be injured in week 3 so I can sit them.Exactly! Why can't my leagues be filled with guys who think like this guy? Is win championships every year!Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
Who's going to get hurt in week 3 so I leave them on my bench.
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
One week does not a good pick make. Lots of guys patting themselves on the back after week 1 and nearly all of them did not start Moreno. Straight up wasted pick that killed many fantasy rosters this week.
Dude....don't even bother. he is clearly trolling this thread with idiotic statements. That or he is such a FF rookie that he doesn't even understand how silly what he is saying sounds.So you knew he would be injured in week 2? How else would he be considered a wasted pick since he was clearly the lead back in Miami prior to getting hurt? But you say Charles wasn't a wasted pick even though he bombed in week 1 and got injured the same week as Moreno. You were clearly wrong about Moreno in week 1 and you can not claim he's a bust because of injury. Unless you claimed he was an injury risk.I was very clear before the season started that Moreno was a wasted draft pick. Nearly no one started him week one, but the 17% who did probably did so because they took a guy like Ray Rice in the 5th on draft day and just wanted to ride out the first two weeks. Most redrafts do not have IR spots, so if you are a Moreno believer you now have a decision to make on whether or not the Dolphins #2 RB is going to sit on your fantasy roster for 4-6 weeks with a guaranteed 0 or if you are going to drop him.I'll be looking for TT's thread about RBs that will be injured in week 3 so I can sit them.Exactly! Why can't my leagues be filled with guys who think like this guy? Is win championships every year!Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
Who's going to get hurt in week 3 so I leave them on my bench.
Moving right along...
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Yup, moving right along to Moreno sitting on the bench for a LONG time. The facts are that Moreno only saw extra action in week 1 because of Lamar Miller's fumble. He did not earn the spot in camp or pre-season games, nor was he named the starter in week 2. Terrible draft pick on a guy that started off season conditioning late because of the Super Bowl, then was not signed by the Broncos, then missed nearly all of OTA's, then had knee surgery and missed most of camp. Those are the facts.
Not really accurate at all. He came on in week 3 of preseason and absolutely looked like the better RB so yea I would say he did earn the playing time over Miller. He absolutely looked like the better RB after week one as well, it's not just because Miller fumbled. He ran better in his one week with the Dolphins than Miller has since he's been in the NFL. He was the offense in week one. That's the facts.
Personally I'm gong to hold onto him because when he comes back he'll again be the best RB on the team.
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Todem
Footballguy
It's unfortunate he has been snake bit every year (except one) with injuries. He runs angry.....something you can't teach RB's. Also Moreno is a great team player and leader on the field. He really is a great character guy. It really sucks for my team (Dolphins) we are going to be down Moreno for a little while. This team needs all the leadership it can get....since our HC is far from a leader of men.
Lynch, Lacy, Moreno....these guys are diesel trucks....rare thing in today's NFL.
Lynch, Lacy, Moreno....these guys are diesel trucks....rare thing in today's NFL.
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
If grabbing Moreno in the late rounds "killed many fantasy rosters" this week then I'm going to have to assume said rosters were affected by more than Moreno's injury. That's like saying Carlos Hyde not panning out is killing many fantasy rosters right now. What a joke.
Precisely. I have tons of patience for rookies who are humble and eager to learn.
If grabbing Moreno in the late rounds "killed many fantasy rosters" this week then I'm going to have to assume said rosters were affected by more than Moreno's injury. That's like saying Carlos Hyde not panning out is killing many fantasy rosters right now. What a joke.
I have zero patience for rookies who think they know what they are talking about and have no clue.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I feel like I was just ready to unleash my secret weapon and then it exploded just as I was leaving the missile silo. ####.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Hasn't the play of Lamar Miller alone shown everyone with eyes that he is not an RB1 by any means?I was very clear before the season started that Moreno was a wasted draft pick. Nearly no one started him week one, but the 17% who did probably did so because they took a guy like Ray Rice in the 5th on draft day and just wanted to ride out the first two weeks. Most redrafts do not have IR spots, so if you are a Moreno believer you now have a decision to make on whether or not the Dolphins #2 RB is going to sit on your fantasy roster for 4-6 weeks with a guaranteed 0 or if you are going to drop him.I'll be looking for TT's thread about RBs that will be injured in week 3 so I can sit them.Exactly! Why can't my leagues be filled with guys who think like this guy? Is win championships every year!Excellent work by you to think Moreno owners wasted a draft pick because he got injured in week 2.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Good post.menobrown said:
Fact and untrue are mutually exlusive. Completely agree, Moreno did look better at the end of pre-season and in week 1 of the regular season than Miller has at any time in his pro career.
The criticism I saw directed at Moreno before yesterday was consistently in the pre-season that Moreno isn't good, bum knee, out of shape, bad leader, he is catfishing everybody. Didn't see any predictions about dislocating an elbow week 2.
I didn't see any criticism posts after Moreno led all RBs in rushing week 1. The I told you so posts were conspicuously absent then.
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SengerCJ
Footballguy
Is it uncommon for you guys to have an IR slot in your league? I'm more than happy to stash him there for 4-8 weeks, granted I have a lot of depth at RB being in a 8 team league, so I can see how this obviously hurts most of you currently at RB. Miller has really not looked good at all so I'm hoping, best case, Moreno comes back around week 7 well rested and takes over as the #1 back after a couple weeks. Could be a huge help through the 2nd half of the season into the playoffs. Eagerly waiting to hear if there is a fracture or not.
Ouch, he will be missing some primetime defenses, OAK week 4, GB week 6, CHI week 7, JAC week 8.
Ouch, he will be missing some primetime defenses, OAK week 4, GB week 6, CHI week 7, JAC week 8.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
The I told you so posts came from Moreno owners, who did not start him in week 1, nor does a single week a season make.
SengerCJ - Yes IR slots are uncommon in redraft, but seem pretty common in dynasty/keeper leagues.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
No one said he was an RB1. He is an RB2 averaging 4.8 yards per carry this season. He is also right around RB #23 (low RB2) after two games, even with his fumble punishment and Moreno's succubus. If his ankle is not seriously injured he will be getting his shot in the next 4-6 weeks and it will be really hard to perform worse than RB2 with his expected load.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
I know you're trolling at this point but I gotta ask you....Do you think he looked like a wasted mid-round draft pick following week 1 or did you think Moreno was the better Miami RB in that game? Forget the % start that you seem to be basing your position on, are you saying Moreno's a wasted pick because he got hurt? After the great week 1, were you predicting a big drop off for the rest of the year? If so, what were you basing that on?
Just because you saw him as a bust prior to week 1, him getting hurt does not validate your point. If it did, every player that gets hurt, in your opinion, would be a wasted pick. After week 1, did you honestly look at his numbers and think, "wow, what a waste of a pick". Be honest.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You can't forget the % start, because he killed 50% of owners in week 2 in their fantasy matchup. That is the game we play, unless you are in pads on Sunday.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Touchdown There
Footballguy
95%+ of the Moreno owners thought he would overtake Lamar Miller, that is why you drafted him.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
So because he got hurt he's a bust. So every injured player is a bust?
Touchdown There
Footballguy
You did not calculate any risk pre-draft. Late start to off season workouts, showed up out of shape, missed most of OTAs then had knee surgery. He was never going to make it the season.
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
So, injury 100% needs to be taken into account when determining bust status. It's why people have become more wary of drafting RBs early and often over the years. Ultimately however, it's all relative to ADP. If Charles, for instance, is forced to miss a lot of time/is ineffective for a majority of year due to his injury than he will indeed be considered a huge bust. Moreno could have been had for cheap (taken in the 9th round on average in MFL). He wasn't "free" but cheap enough that even if he does "bust" it shouldn't be a death knell for your team.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Please stop responding to / quoting the fisherman as it circumvents the "ignore user" feature. TIA. He's not here for honest discussion anyway.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I think the point was you couldn't predict a Charles injury. Did you predict the A.J. Green injury?
Why not start an injury prediction thread, and let everybody know who is going to be injured, what for, and how long they will be out, than they can make sure and start them only on weeks they are healthy? That would be a great public service.
Your earlier posts were non-specific and didn't mention a disocated elbow prediction. You mentioned things like bum knee, overweight, bad leader, cat fishing. Absolutely nothing to do with what happened.
If he had been hit by a tree in the parking lot, would you have still said I told you so?
You were patting yourself on the back in week 2, when talking about how Moreno owners were patting themselves on the back week 1. Why it is unclear, since it was clear to most people Moreno was the superior runner by the end of the preseason and the beginning of the regular season (I started him week 1). Did you miss the part where MIA beat reporteers were saying he clearly looked like the best RB on the roster by the end of the pre-season, I didn't see any of your posts in the thread at that time, either. Were those facts, too, or just the subjective fumble fact as the mechanism for Moreno rise and Miller's fall? And again, we have no corroboration of your Nostradamus-like injury prediction skills, other than taking credit for an injury you didn't predict after the fact.
You seem fond of the one week does not a season make. Moreno was top 5 last year. Sure it was with Manning, but I'm not sure all 32 starting RBs could have done as well. Miller has never looked as good as Moreno at his best. Multiple seasons of average performance (he couldn't decisively beat out the plodding Daniel Thomas in the 2013 pres-season) also don't a good season make.
As noted above, the below is funny shtick. Any starter that gets injured hurts teams, how is this any different, other than it tangentially connected up with some extremely loose, vague, nebulous warnings about weight, knees, leadership, catfishing, etc. having nothing to do with his actual injury.
"Straight up wasted pick that killed many fantasy rosters this week."
The only thing straight up about that is how silly it is to crow about it after the fact.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
This thread is 10 pages of crowing after week 1 from Moreno owners. There is now 1/2 a page of sensibility.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I meant what percentage drafted him as one of their top 2 RBs in start 1-2 RB leagues?
Poor saps, they didn't know like you did that he would be gone due to the hodge podge, grab bag of throw stuff on the wall to see what sticks issues like weight, knee, leadership, catfishing. Wait, that isn't why he is out, I guess you didn't know either, but are just claiming to, so you can pat yourself on the back. Isn't pretending to be Nostradamus a kind of catfishing?
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Can you point to the extensive medical literature that shows a greater incidence of dislocated elbows due to these things?
* Did you actually say he wasn't going to make the season? You were consistent about being down on him, your reasons changed somewhat to account for the changing circumstances as the season approached. In June he might get cut. Another Nostradamus failure. In early July, he would get less than 100 carries. Because he partied and had a bum knee. Oddly, no mention of a future dislocated elbow. In August, he had no role and little chance to beat out Miller. No mention that he wouldn't make it through the season by this point. Also in August, he didn't do squatting and lunging, wasn't in peak physical condition like Miller, and was again catfishing. Moreno was Miller insurance. But still, no mention of not making the season as we got closer to the start. Pretty vague, hard to tell what was based more on the presence of Miller than injury risk? The closer we got to the season, the rhetoric became a bit less strident on the injury front (and what there was tended to focus on the knee, completely irrelevant to his injury). Unfortunately, you didn't post after 8-7 (until surfacing again, post-injury), about the time Moreno was getting in shape, and leading up to his looking better than Miller late in the pre-season, but than those developments may not have conformed to your consistent narrative from earlier in the Summer as well. Weird that you clammed up then, when people could have used the Nostradamus draft help most? But that would have been riskier to go out on more of a limb when Moreno was looking better than your hatchet job accounted for, than waiting until AFTER he was injured. Lot safer for you that way. Hopefully we get more insightful retroactive, I told you so work about other post-injury players that you happened to bash beforehand, throughout the season. Anyways, maybe you THOUGHT he was never going to make the season, but you never said that in so many words even earlier, and you said nothing at all the past month plus, until AFTER the injury. How many games did you predict he would miss, I missed that among some of the badly off the mark speculation that he might get cut, and all the substantive hoo haw about catfishing. 16? 1? Somewhere in between? Oh, if/when he comes back, hopefully you'll have some predictions than about future injuries, and how much more time he will miss! That would be more helpful if you could make the prediction before instead of after the injury next time. I have a prediction, George Washington is going to be the first President of the United States (so much easier when it is about stuff that already happened).
6-20-14 (the hatchet job dislike of Moreno comes through loud and clear, oops on the Nostradamus part, though, you may have heard he didn't get cut, bad prediction there, the cause is kind of vague, in the manner of a horoscope - you will meet somebody today!)
"Moreno will never be fantasy worthy again and may get cut in camp."
7-9-14/Lamar Miller thread (What does it say other than that they drafted his replacement with a second rounder in 2013 and had a lot of free agent money committed to other positions - didn't you get the memo that the RB position in general is becoming increasingly fungible and marginalized? I see you added partying to the grab bag of stuff to throw on the wall. It clearly doesn't take much for you to find reasons to not like a player when you are determined to.)
"Moreno was a product of the Broncos offense last year and then he was not re-signed. That says a lot. The guy likes the party life and he has a bum knee right now. I have high confidence that Moreno will see less than 100 carries barring injury to Lamar Miller."
8-6-14 (No role? In a Lazor/PHI run heavy offense. This is nothing if not consistent, maybe because you thought he would be cut, though you were mistaken about that.)
"Moreno has no role for the Dolphin's right now. His contract is heavily weighted towards game day bonuses. I think they are about to ride him hard for the rest of camp on a weak knee. He reported out of shape months ago and then had knee surgery. Even if you don't believe in Lamar Miller, there is very little chance he loses his starting gig to Moreno at this point in time."
8-7-14 (It was the not squatting and lunging. But he looked great against BUF week 1, just think how good he could have done if he wasn't an out of shape catfisher? So Miller was going to be the workhorse because he was the younger one in peak, physical condition. The fumble was a good recovery for why this wasn't how it played out week 1, thou you didn't mention his job was so tenuous he could lose it with one fumble to the overweight catfisher, the Nostradamus predictive skills failed you there)
"Not a long recovery time to walk normally, but the issue is that Moreno started the offseason late with Denver's SuperBowl run. In his limited off-season he could not do the proper squatting, lunging, running, etc to get into peak physical condition. He arrived in Miami out of shape with a knee issue and THEN had surgery. There is being in shape, then there is being in good shape, then there is being in NFL level peak physical condition. Lamar Miller is in peak condition taking all the reps in camp and learning the offense. Moreno is catfishing the coaches and standing on the sideline.
Even if the coaches believe two players are of the same talent level, they will play the younger one in peak physical condition. Moreno is Lamar Miller insurance, not a Lamar Miller replacement in 2014."
8-7-14 (The old, you just like him because you have him on your team critique. Of course, this always refers to OTHER people that are biased. I'm sure you are never high on players because you rostered them, you are immune to such self-delusion. This sounded familiar, than I remembered your work in the Stacy thread, in response to concern about Mason's pass protection skills, or lack thereof, from 7-29-14. "Exactly, because it is way too easily tossed around by the hater who has the other guy on their dynasty team. In this case, you really like Stacy." I was a "hater" who had the guy on my dynasty team. Except I was just legitimately concerned about his blocking, follow the team closely, didn't have him on any rosters, and have Mason in one. Just shoot first and ask questions later, who cares if the critique is of the baseless, unfounded ad hominem variety. Lot of speculation and false hope for Mason on the basis of we can't know what kind of blocker he is from film, he might really be OK! Back to Moreno, your pre-season bashing also didn't have anything to do with the fact that the coaches made Moreno the workhorse in week 1.)
"No, I do not believe in Lamar Miller. I think he is average, just like Moreno. Neither one of them is a special talent. I am looking at the reality of the situation and you are just promoting the guy you have rostered in dynasty. It cost you ZERO because he is already a sunk cost on your team. Your promotion of Moreno is not actually going to affect who the coaches decide to play on game day."
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purestrength
Footballguy
Can we get back to current news on Moreno's injury and how to deal with it? Some of us who drafted him aren't giving up yet.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'd like to hold but the situation is precarious.
PFT says 4 weeks.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/14/knowshon-moreno-has-dislocated-elbow/
Has Dr. Bramel spoken on this yet?
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I meant on his team. He's clearly the second tier RB behind Moreno to everyone who's not trolling.
You would have to be pretty dumb to flat out drop him. Even if it is an 8 week injury, you hold on until you literally cannot anymore. Remember last year with Vereen? Those who held on were rewarded.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Absolutely. It's not like Miller or the newly resigned Daniel Thomas will "run" away with it. They might make it three yards, but then fall down.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Yeah Im not planning on the 4 week optimistic expectation for Knowshon, definitely closer to the 6-8 week expectation, but he'll be sitting on my bench without thought of dropping him (at least at this point).
Also pisses me off because I trumpeted to get an IR spot in my redraft leagues to know avail, and like last year with Vereen, Im stuck holding the talented player too good to drop (that is of course if Moreno were to actually be placed on IR).
Also pisses me off because I trumpeted to get an IR spot in my redraft leagues to know avail, and like last year with Vereen, Im stuck holding the talented player too good to drop (that is of course if Moreno were to actually be placed on IR).
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
At least 4 weeks.
Short benches I probably wouldn't hold onto Moreno. Let someone else deal with bye week issues & you're probably seeing him dropped at some point anyway.....probably if/when Miller has big game.
Short benches I probably wouldn't hold onto Moreno. Let someone else deal with bye week issues & you're probably seeing him dropped at some point anyway.....probably if/when Miller has big game.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He missed all those valuable elbow strengthening exercises during OTAs. Who didn't see this coming?
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That's okay my young stud brother.I feel like I was just ready to unleash my secret weapon and then it exploded just as I was leaving the missile silo. ####.
It's just like any other skill. Gets better with practice.
Give it another 4-5 weeks and your league won't know what hit them.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I drafted Vereen and held on all year and was rewarded. I also had Andre Brown and he was very useful too. It's just that there is a big difference between Moreno coming back week 6, after the bye, and week 10. That was really my original question, what's most likely?
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or those of us who have a really short bench (i.e. 3 spots) and can't afford to stash him during critical bye weeks.
