08 New York Jets Offseason thread (1 Viewer)

[brednbuddah]

please post updates here...

no real surprise so far, Jets release McCareins, Dyson and Clarke.

link

also, saw on ESPN today that Vilma was allowed by the Jets to seek trade with any team EXCEPT the Patriots. sorry no link.

This makes no sense to me why the Jets would exempt just the Pats. If he doesn't "fit" in our 3-4, wouldn't that mean he won't fit in their 3-4? whatever.

 

[duece2626]

Just read something on PFT that Vilma may be headed to the Lions.

 

[TLEF316]

Here is my predicted off season....

1) Jets will trade Vilma to a 4-3 team for peanuts. He will have a mediocre year next year due to the injury and return to pro-bowl form in 2009.

2) The jets will sign 2 or 3 re-tread guys to try and form a reasonable 3-4 defense. They will all be awful.

3) We will pass on every good FA O-lineman under 30 years old and sign Faneca.

4) We'll draft Vernon Gholston. (which is actually what i want)

The Pats will sign 6 players better than our best acquisition and kick our ### again next year.

 

[LBH]

I have a feeling Robertson and Vilma are going to be dealt real soon.

 

[sheerterror]

Here is my predicted off season....1) Jets will trade Vilma to a 4-3 team for peanuts. He will have a mediocre year next year due to the injury and return to pro-bowl form in 2009. 2) The jets will sign 2 or 3 re-tread guys to try and form a reasonable 3-4 defense. They will all be awful. 3) We will pass on every good FA O-lineman under 30 years old and sign Faneca. 4) We'll draft Vernon Gholston. (which is actually what i want)The Pats will sign 6 players better than our best acquisition and kick our ### again next year.

except for 4.

 

[sheerterror]

Just read something on PFT that Vilma may be headed to the Lions.

I saw a rumor that involved a 3 way trade involving the Broncos, Lions and Jets where the Jets move Robertson and get Shaun Rogers in return. Just like any other "rumored" trade, I'll believe it when I see it. I do trust this organization to not make any moves that they don't feel truly help this team, be it on the field or with the salary cap.

 

[TLEF316]

i dont think the jets make a move for rogers. he's not really a true nose (at least he hasn't been playing it) and he's apparently absurdly lazy.

 

[Reaper]

Here is my predicted off season....2) The jets will sign 2 or 3 re-tread guys to try and form a reasonable 3-4 defense. They will all be awful. 3) We will pass on every good FA O-lineman under 30 years old and sign Faneca.

So, who would you sign for the 3-4?What good FA O-linemen do you want under 30?? I thought Faneca was a lock for Arizona?It's easy to criticize what teams do or don't do in FA but, often you're left with few options and then the prices get out of hand - For instance the FA market last year for OL was kinda out of control....This is why I'm all for drafting O-Line. This year at least 2 ( I say this every year).My draft picks so far from the other thread are:1) Gholston OLB2) Cherilus or Albert OL3) Rubin NTI dream about being able to draft Jake Long AND Albert and just build a monster line and take it from there.

 

[TLEF316]

Here is my predicted off season....2) The jets will sign 2 or 3 re-tread guys to try and form a reasonable 3-4 defense. They will all be awful. 3) We will pass on every good FA O-lineman under 30 years old and sign Faneca.

So, who would you sign for the 3-4?What good FA O-linemen do you want under 30?? I thought Faneca was a lock for Arizona?It's easy to criticize what teams do or don't do in FA but, often you're left with few options and then the prices get out of hand - For instance the FA market last year for OL was kinda out of control....This is why I'm all for drafting O-Line. This year at least 2 ( I say this every year).My draft picks so far from the other thread are:1) Gholston OLB2) Cherilus or Albert OL3) Rubin NTI dream about being able to draft Jake Long AND Albert and just build a monster line and take it from there.

I'd draft Gholston to play OLB. I'd keep Vilma and play him at ILB next to Harris (he'll do much better without other teams constantly gunning for him)Ideally, I'd like to move D-Rob to DE(where i think he is more suited for in the 3-4) and find a NT, but they don't really grow on trees. There has been some talk about taking Shaun Ellis' hand off the ground and playing him at OLB, but i assume that he'd play the same position as Gholston. My guess is they will give Bryan Thomas one more time on the strong side, but he's been pretty useless. I really dont know enough about that position to make any kind of guess as to who they should go after. As far as OL goes, i like Jacob Bell from Tenn. He's still young and seems to be a star in the making. Apparently we have interest in Flozell adams as well. I think a RT prospect in the 2nd round is the way to go, unless they absolutely love a possible big play WR type that falls. ( i kinda liked Hardy from IU, but his 40 time means he'll probably go somewhere in the 15-25 range now) The draft is deep at tackle and they need to get one there.EDIT: I realize the FA market for O-line was a bit out of control last year, but i was screaming for Eric Steinbach and the jets should have made a move. They had the money. Look what he did to stabalize the line in cleveland. He would have been a perfect fit at guard.

 

[Kiddnets]

Life in the NFL...or should I say for the Jets

few things being discussed

1. Vilma is an awful fit for this defense - if Maningi sticks with the 3-4 he should take what he can get for Vilma and run - remember his contract is up next year so better to get something for nothing

2. D Rob is D crap - not big enough for a run stuffing DT they need and not fast enough to be a DE - plus his cap # is a ridiculous $11M this year (rookie contract rule coming yet!!!) - another guy that needs to go.

3. System - I hate losing 2 former #1 picks for pennies on the dollar but Manigni is not going to change his system. Yes he runs some 4-3 looks but the base pkg is 3-4 - I think its amistake when coaches force their system to the players rather than tailor a system for what you have bu thats been going on with the Jets for years.

4. QB - open competition is a nightmare IMO - go with the kid or don't - a QB battle in the NY media will destroy KCs confidence and we will be stuck with another of mediocre Chad - In this thin QB market you may be able to get a 2nd or 3rd for Chad - I would deal him and go with the kid....sink or swim this year

5. OL - who do you want? Fanacea and Adams are the top OL FAs out there - so what if they are over 30 - good OL usually can play well into their mid 30s - Jets have a young core with Brick and Mangold - I have no problem using all our cap space and sign both of them - that's how awful the OL was last year.

6. FAs - in addition to above - I do agree with one thing - enough with the JAG (Just another guy) in FA approach. I can't remember the last time the JEts signed an impact UFA - probably Mawae! Each year they pat themselves on the back by overpaying for mediocre stats thinking their system will bring out the star in the JAG. This year with $25-$30M available they need 2 big hits in FA - whether its the 2 OL or Samuel and one OL - get 2 studs then fill in with your crappy Kassell, Barton, Kimo type bums. If the best OL out there

7. Draft - huge draft - depending on FA goes - either way they need playmakers! Impact guys that crate matchup nightmares - 2 guys I see doing that are Gholston and DMAC - hopefully one of them drops to #6. Assuming OL is taken care of in FA - time for a tall, fast WR in the 2nd or 3rd rd. B Smith stinks and Coles may be out of here.

8. Trim the fat - Purge already started 0 In this critical yr 3 Mangini has to restock - I'd rather lose a guy a year early than a year too late (see Vilma - probably could have gotten a 1st for him last year - now damaged goods). I am saying this as to Coles - if he does not take the very reasonable $11M for 2 yrs - let him shop himself as well. He is a good WR but he is old and breaking down. If he wants uber money deal him - the difference with this situation and the Kendall debacle is there is time to find a good replacement - I say send Coles out for a 2nd or 3rd and use the saved money to sign Bryant Johnson - tall WR is just what KC needs.

9. Coaching - last but not least - JEts awful record last year was deceiving - they were in most of their games until the end. Very few blow outs - it was a lousy play here or call there that was the difference. Manigni lost his swagger this year and almost looked like shudder - Kotite/Herm. Gone was the go for it on 4th and 2 - In was the punt it from the opponent 38 yard line. Gone was the creative aggressive playcalling from shotty - in was the same few plays over and over tha I could call from my sofa. Gone was the blitzing defense - hello to the on your heels let the O dictate to us defense which did not recover until after the bye.

Whew - anyway - just my thoughts - ready for the offseason - anyone disagree with what I have here - interested in other plans/ideas.

 

[Reaper]

Life in the NFL...or should I say for the Jets

few things being discussed

1. Vilma is an awful fit for this defense - if Maningi sticks with the 3-4 he should take what he can get for Vilma and run - remember his contract is up next year so better to get something for nothing

I also think Vilma is overrated and has looked bad at times one on one regardless of "System" - Maybe injuries were part of that but, yeah, with his contract coming up, I'd take a 3rd round pick... I think the staff felt Vilma would step up a lot more in the 3-4 and was "lost" a lot more than they predicted especially when you see Harris in there.

2. D Rob is D crap - not big enough for a run stuffing DT they need and not fast enough to be a DE - plus his cap # is a ridiculous $11M this year (rookie contract rule coming yet!!!) - another guy that needs to go.

Yup - Maybe the worst trade / signing ever - 2 1st round picks for a guy with a known Knee condition - It would be like a team picking around 13 this year trading 2 1sts for Glenn Dorsey even with the injury info known - 1 pick is one thing but TWO 1sts Uggghhh did I hate this - NOW, all of a sudden it's known how stupid it is to overpay to trade up due to the costs and all - Well, some of us knew that back then, Bradway was way behind the times and the fact that he did this due to Public perception after the Skins fiasco is sickening

3. System - I hate losing 2 former #1 picks for pennies on the dollar but Manigni is not going to change his system. Yes he runs some 4-3 looks but the base pkg is 3-4 - I think its amistake when coaches force their system to the players rather than tailor a system for what you have bu thats been going on with the Jets for years.

THREE - But, whatever, you get what you can get now and don't throw good money after bad.... I agree somewhat with the system thing But I also think that this defense was in for an overhaul Anyway regardless of 3-4 or 4-3... We weren't talking about the 85' Bears defense being forced to a 3-4, we were talking about a defense that has always had trouble Vs the Run and had missing pieces - I'm 100% with Mangini on installing FLEXIBILITY and not being locked into labels like 3-4 or 4-3..... Vilma like I said is overrated and Robertson would hav ebeen a tough decision even if he did play a little better in the 4-3 with his knee condition - The D was lights out when he did play 4-3 DT and how do you give a guy with that condition huge $$$$ at this point?????

4. QB - open competition is a nightmare IMO - go with the kid or don't - a QB battle in the NY media will destroy KCs confidence and we will be stuck with another of mediocre Chad - In this thin QB market you may be able to get a 2nd or 3rd for Chad - I would deal him and go with the kid....sink or swim this year

Maybe even draft another prospect like Flacco - or get a FA

5. OL - who do you want? Fanacea and Adams are the top OL FAs out there - so what if they are over 30 - good OL usually can play well into their mid 30s - Jets have a young core with Brick and Mangold - I have no problem using all our cap space and sign both of them - that's how awful the OL was last year.

I'd take Faneca but, I think he's going to be gobbled up fast - I think the draft is the way to go on OL and where the best Value is year after year.. But, this team needs maybe 3 of em. So, we'll probably see a combination - But, regardless we better see an early round OL pick

6. FAs - in addition to above - I do agree with one thing - enough with the JAG (Just another guy) in FA approach. I can't remember the last time the JEts signed an impact UFA - probably Mawae! Each year they pat themselves on the back by overpaying for mediocre stats thinking their system will bring out the star in the JAG. This year with $25-$30M available they need 2 big hits in FA - whether its the 2 OL or Samuel and one OL - get 2 studs then fill in with your crappy Kassell, Barton, Kimo type bums. If the best OL out there

7. Draft - huge draft - depending on FA goes - either way they need playmakers! Impact guys that crate matchup nightmares - 2 guys I see doing that are Gholston and DMAC - hopefully one of them drops to #6. Assuming OL is taken care of in FA - time for a tall, fast WR in the 2nd or 3rd rd. B Smith stinks and Coles may be out of here.

I can't see how the Ol can be taken care of in FA, needing 3 players.

8. Trim the fat - Purge already started 0 In this critical yr 3 Mangini has to restock - I'd rather lose a guy a year early than a year too late (see Vilma - probably could have gotten a 1st for him last year - now damaged goods). I am saying this as to Coles - if he does not take the very reasonable $11M for 2 yrs - let him shop himself as well. He is a good WR but he is old and breaking down. If he wants uber money deal him - the difference with this situation and the Kendall debacle is there is time to find a good replacement - I say send Coles out for a 2nd or 3rd and use the saved money to sign Bryant Johnson - tall WR is just what KC needs.

Sounds good to me - I'd like Coles AND Bryant but......

9. Coaching - last but not least - JEts awful record last year was deceiving - they were in most of their games until the end. Very few blow outs - it was a lousy play here or call there that was the difference. Manigni lost his swagger this year and almost looked like shudder - Kotite/Herm. Gone was the go for it on 4th and 2 - In was the punt it from the opponent 38 yard line. Gone was the creative aggressive playcalling from shotty - in was the same few plays over and over tha I could call from my sofa. Gone was the blitzing defense - hello to the on your heels let the O dictate to us defense which did not recover until after the bye.

I think at some point in the season when all is lost you should put that swagger away and "work on some things and situations". I agree that they were in most games - I also liked what I was hearing from players at the end of that final KC game and how happy they were for eachother - seemed like some real good bonds and appreciation for eachother and the coaching staff which sometimes gets shown in the media as rocky

Whew - anyway - just my thoughts - ready for the offseason - anyone disagree with what I have here - interested in other plans/ideas.

 

[TLEF316]

I dont think Robertson is bad. He's just out of place. If he is willing to lower his cap number, i want to see him tried at 3-4 DE. I wish we had never switched the 3-4 in the first place. It's been a total disaster and there is nothing to suggest that it is strategically better.

Do you really want to see Vilma dumped for a 4th rounder? I'd much rather get a 1 year look at him next to harris and let him walk if he still sucks. We arent winning next year anyway.

I don't want assante samuel. He's a gambler who benefitted from the Pat's great scheming and pass rush. He'll be exposed playing behind a front 7 that can't get to the QB. And by exposed, i mean it will be painfully obvious that he isnt worth the massive, gigantic contract the jets would have to give him. Revis will be a CB# 1 very soon. Rhodes is about to get paid. Can't tie up all that $$ in the defensive backfield.

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses. I'd take a week off work to celebrate if we got a 2nd for him, but i'd still be in my glory if we got a 3rd.

As i said with the O-line, i want Jacob Bell. I wouldn't be upset with faneca, because i think he'd be a great help to ferguson. I just want someone good at LG and RT. Both positions have been a disaster since MacKenzie left (other than Kendall's decent performance)

Coaching looked better after the bye, especially on D. The staff needs to have a very good year though. O-line improvement would make them look a lot better. Gotta get Leon more touches. thats a big one for me.

EDIT: I could also see Special teams taking a hit this year. That guy was by far our best coach.

 

[sheerterror]

Here is my predicted off season....2) The jets will sign 2 or 3 re-tread guys to try and form a reasonable 3-4 defense. They will all be awful. 3) We will pass on every good FA O-lineman under 30 years old and sign Faneca.

So, who would you sign for the 3-4?What good FA O-linemen do you want under 30?? I thought Faneca was a lock for Arizona?It's easy to criticize what teams do or don't do in FA but, often you're left with few options and then the prices get out of hand - For instance the FA market last year for OL was kinda out of control....This is why I'm all for drafting O-Line. This year at least 2 ( I say this every year).My draft picks so far from the other thread are:1) Gholston OLB2) Cherilus or Albert OL3) Rubin NTI dream about being able to draft Jake Long AND Albert and just build a monster line and take it from there.

I'd love this scenario, especially if the Jets could get Albert in the 2nd. Rubin looks like an absolute freak - he or Red Bryant would be find in the 3rd for me. Add another OL in the 4th and one of the many WRs that will drop in the 5th and I think we are on our way to a great draft.

 

[sheerterror]

I dont think Robertson is bad. He's just out of place. If he is willing to lower his cap number, i want to see him tried at 3-4 DE. I wish we had never switched the 3-4 in the first place. It's been a total disaster and there is nothing to suggest that it is strategically better.

Do you really want to see Vilma dumped for a 4th rounder? I'd much rather get a 1 year look at him next to harris and let him walk if he still sucks. We arent winning next year anyway.

I don't want assante samuel. He's a gambler who benefitted from the Pat's great scheming and pass rush. He'll be exposed playing behind a front 7 that can't get to the QB. And by exposed, i mean it will be painfully obvious that he isnt worth the massive, gigantic contract the jets would have to give him. Revis will be a CB# 1 very soon. Rhodes is about to get paid. Can't tie up all that $$ in the defensive backfield.

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses. I'd take a week off work to celebrate if we got a 2nd for him, but i'd still be in my glory if we got a 3rd.

As i said with the O-line, i want Jacob Bell. I wouldn't be upset with faneca, because i think he'd be a great help to ferguson. I just want someone good at LG and RT. Both positions have been a disaster since MacKenzie left (other than Kendall's decent performance)

Coaching looked better after the bye, especially on D. The staff needs to have a very good year though. O-line improvement would make them look a lot better. Gotta get Leon more touches. thats a big one for me.

EDIT: I could also see Special teams taking a hit this year. That guy was by far our best coach.

Big one right there. There is nothing wrong with having a plodder in Jones getting 20 carries a game for 3.5-4 yards (hopefully this improves with more efficient o-line play) but they've GOT TO get the ball in Leon's hands. He is far and away the most athletic and explosive player on this team, and is a threat to take it to the house every time he's got the ball in his hands. I was truly shocked we didn't see more screens and dumpoffs to him this past season given his ability in the open field. People want McFadden for the sake of having a playmaker on O, and I understand and can sympathize with that - but it's not our biggest need, especially when we do already have a playmaker (although, this isn't mean to compare Leon to McFadden, but you get the point). I've said it in other posts, and I'll say it again. This team isn't that far off. People already forgot about the 10-6 season 2 years ago, and the misery of the injury riddled 05 season. After 05, people were calling the Jets one of the worst in the league. After 06, they were back to being a playoff contender. After 07, they are being lumped back in with the cellar dwellers again. Most Jet fans realize that the difference between winning and losing a lot of games this past season was, as someone said earlier, a blown play here or a 2nd half choke there. This team is not nearly as bad as the 4-12 indicates. It needs work, certainly, but with the draft deep in two of the team's biggest needs (OL and WR) and an elite pass rushing OLB ripe for the picking at 6 overall, this could all be turned around very, very quickly. Now I'm not saying I expect the Jets to make the playoffs this season, but if the [seemingly] right moves are made this offseason - starting with the proper building of the offensive line - I see no reason why this team can't win 6-8 games, and look to be competitive in the 2009 season.

 

[TLEF316]

if the jets spend the $$$ needed to upgrade the o-line, and get an impact pass rusher in the draft, we could win 7 games next year.

 

[Kiddnets]

if the jets spend the $$$ needed to upgrade the o-line, and get an impact pass rusher in the draft, we could win 7 games next year.

I disagree - jets were a few plays from being a 7 or 8 win team last year - if KC develops, add OL and pass rusher they could be a playoff team as early as 2008

 

[TLEF316]

if the jets spend the $$$ needed to upgrade the o-line, and get an impact pass rusher in the draft, we could win 7 games next year.

I disagree - jets were a few plays from being a 7 or 8 win team last year - if KC develops, add OL and pass rusher they could be a playoff team as early as 2008

in 2006 they won EVERY close game. We caught every break (other than the BS no-call for the force out against the browns) In 2007 they lost them all. I think 2008 is somewhere in the middle. 7-8 wins. I don't think the WR core is strong enough to bring along Clemens so fast. (especially with a less than happy coles)i think 09 will be our first chance at a good run, as the elite AFC teams will all be pretty old by then(SD will be mostly young, but LT will really be slowing down)

 

[LBH]

"Word around the league" is that the Jets have already negotiated a deal for free agent Alan Faneca that would guarantee him about $20 million.

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat makes it clear that this is a rumor, but the Jets are known to be after Faneca. The Jets are still trying to replace LG Pete Kendall. They probably should've bucked up and paid him last summer.Source: Santa Rosa Press Democrat

 

[sheerterror]

"Word around the league" is that the Jets have already negotiated a deal for free agent Alan Faneca that would guarantee him about $20 million.

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat makes it clear that this is a rumor, but the Jets are known to be after Faneca. The Jets are still trying to replace LG Pete Kendall. They probably should've bucked up and paid him last summer.Source: Santa Rosa Press Democrat

That's a lot of money for an aging guard. I don't know how much I buy this though - isn't it considered tampering if you negotiate a deal with a player who is still technically another team's property until Friday?

 

[Kiddnets]

"Word around the league" is that the Jets have already negotiated a deal for free agent Alan Faneca that would guarantee him about $20 million.

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat makes it clear that this is a rumor, but the Jets are known to be after Faneca. The Jets are still trying to replace LG Pete Kendall. They probably should've bucked up and paid him last summer.Source: Santa Rosa Press Democrat

That's a lot of money for an aging guard. I don't know how much I buy this though - isn't it considered tampering if you negotiate a deal with a player who is still technically another team's property until Friday?

Lots of speculation - PFT is reporting Samuel to NO is a "done deal" - nothing more than banter at this point. Would love to see Fanacea - much better than Kendall and will help Brick as well - any solid RTs out there besides Adams?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Yup - Maybe the worst trade / signing ever - 2 1st round picks for a guy with a known Knee condition - It would be like a team picking around 13 this year trading 2 1sts for Glenn Dorsey even with the injury info known - 1 pick is one thing but TWO 1sts Uggghhh did I hate this

If it makes you feel any better, the extra 1st round pick turned out to be Rex Grossman. I'm as disappointed to miss that ship as I would have been if I'd lost my ticket for the Titanic.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses.

Couldn't disagree more. Clemens will absolutely look better in training camp than Pennington. Pennington may still be the better QB, though. His best skills translate to live games, and his worst skills are magnified in training camp drills.

 

[TLEF316]

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses.

Couldn't disagree more. Clemens will absolutely look better in training camp than Pennington. Pennington may still be the better QB, though. His best skills translate to live games, and his worst skills are magnified in training camp drills.

How so? Yeah, its obvious that Clemens has the stronger arm. But in a controlled situation, Pennington will be far more accurate. He's got better chemistry with the recievers and won't be under pressure to "hold" the job. Clemens "losing" the job in an open competition would be an absolute disaster. Thats gotta weigh on a guy. Yeah, clemens will whip the ball around better, and he's more mobile, but i still think pennington will be impressive in a controlled situation. Pennington suffers when A) he is pressured/rushed and B) when he has a defense sell out to stop the run, forcing him to go up top. Neither of these things happen in camp.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Vilma's troubles are tied to the 3-4. I think it's a convenient and easy excuse, but I don't think it's true. There's no schematic reason why a player like Vilma should excel in the 4-3 but not in the 3-4. The schemes simply aren't that much different, from an ILB perspective. The problem is the talent around him. Losing Abraham and Ferguson and replacing them with no one is the real reason Vilma has struggled. Kimo and Ellis, or Keyon Coleman and Ellis, teamed up with Robertson, is an awful defensive line. Hobson and Bryan Thomas don't exactly put fear into lineman, either.

Put Vilma on a team with a good front 7, and he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player, regardless of what scheme he's in. Everyone always compares him to his fellow U LB in Baltimore, and Lewis was a monster his second season in the 3-4 -- because he had strong talent around him.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses.

Couldn't disagree more. Clemens will absolutely look better in training camp than Pennington. Pennington may still be the better QB, though. His best skills translate to live games, and his worst skills are magnified in training camp drills.

How so? Yeah, its obvious that Clemens has the stronger arm. But in a controlled situation, Pennington will be far more accurate. He's got better chemistry with the recievers and won't be under pressure to "hold" the job. Clemens "losing" the job in an open competition would be an absolute disaster. Thats gotta weigh on a guy. Yeah, clemens will whip the ball around better, and he's more mobile, but i still think pennington will be impressive in a controlled situation. Pennington suffers when A) he is pressured/rushed and B) when he has a defense sell out to stop the run, forcing him to go up top. Neither of these things happen in camp.

Pennington's an excellent leader who is accurate and reads defenses very well. That's important in real life games. In training camp, none of those things are important. The environment is much more controlled, and intelligence and intangibles take a backseat to arm strength and athleticism.There's a reason Pennington never beat out a 40 year old Testaverde in training camp, and a reason Pennington couldn't win the job in Mangini's first year until the very end of camp. He's a NFL player, not a training camp player.

 

[TLEF316]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Vilma's troubles are tied to the 3-4. I think it's a convenient and easy excuse, but I don't think it's true. There's no schematic reason why a player like Vilma should excel in the 4-3 but not in the 3-4. The schemes simply aren't that much different, from an ILB perspective. The problem is the talent around him. Losing Abraham and Ferguson and replacing them with no one is the real reason Vilma has struggled. Kimo and Ellis, or Keyon Coleman and Ellis, teamed up with Robertson, is an awful defensive line. Hobson and Bryan Thomas don't exactly put fear into lineman, either.Put Vilma on a team with a good front 7, and he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player, regardless of what scheme he's in. Everyone always compares him to his fellow U LB in Baltimore, and Lewis was a monster his second season in the 3-4 -- because he had strong talent around him.

I sort of agree with you here. Vilma's inability to shed blocks is what kills him in the 3-4, but i still think he can be effective with the right guys around him. In the 4-3, he had 2 tackles in front of him to tak on guards/fullbacks/whoever. They were't great tackles, but they had the size to keep blockers out of the 2nd level. This left vilma free to use his best attributes (speed and anticipation) to run sideline to sideline and make plays. The 3-4, and lack of a proper nose tackle, magnifies his greatest weakness, his size. This is exactly why i dont want to trade him. Harris is the bigger man and will do better taking on blockers. An elite presence in the edge (like a gholston) would open things up as well. Ideally, the jets need a nassive NT to hold the fort, but they dont grow on trees. It makes no sense to trade vilma for a 4th or a late 3rd.

 

[TLEF316]

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses.

Couldn't disagree more. Clemens will absolutely look better in training camp than Pennington. Pennington may still be the better QB, though. His best skills translate to live games, and his worst skills are magnified in training camp drills.

How so? Yeah, its obvious that Clemens has the stronger arm. But in a controlled situation, Pennington will be far more accurate. He's got better chemistry with the recievers and won't be under pressure to "hold" the job. Clemens "losing" the job in an open competition would be an absolute disaster. Thats gotta weigh on a guy. Yeah, clemens will whip the ball around better, and he's more mobile, but i still think pennington will be impressive in a controlled situation. Pennington suffers when A) he is pressured/rushed and B) when he has a defense sell out to stop the run, forcing him to go up top. Neither of these things happen in camp.

Pennington's an excellent leader who is accurate and reads defenses very well. That's important in real life games. In training camp, none of those things are important. The environment is much more controlled, and intelligence and intangibles take a backseat to arm strength and athleticism.There's a reason Pennington never beat out a 40 year old Testaverde in training camp, and a reason Pennington couldn't win the job in Mangini's first year until the very end of camp. He's a NFL player, not a training camp player.

i agree that pennington will not blow anybody's doors off in TC, but i still think he can look better than clemens in certain situations. He's far more accurate and knows the playbook better. He's got no pressure on him, as he's already lost his job. If clemens starts sailing balls and missing checkdowns, he'll plant some doubt in the minds of the staff.

 

[NYRAGE]

I hope they get help for the oline, but it will be pricey.

Prediction for first free agent signing: Tommy Kelly as a Defensive End in the 3-4.

 

[brednbuddah]

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses.

Couldn't disagree more. Clemens will absolutely look better in training camp than Pennington. Pennington may still be the better QB, though. His best skills translate to live games, and his worst skills are magnified in training camp drills.

How so? Yeah, its obvious that Clemens has the stronger arm. But in a controlled situation, Pennington will be far more accurate. He's got better chemistry with the recievers and won't be under pressure to "hold" the job. Clemens "losing" the job in an open competition would be an absolute disaster. Thats gotta weigh on a guy. Yeah, clemens will whip the ball around better, and he's more mobile, but i still think pennington will be impressive in a controlled situation. Pennington suffers when A) he is pressured/rushed and B) when he has a defense sell out to stop the run, forcing him to go up top. Neither of these things happen in camp.

Pennington's an excellent leader who is accurate and reads defenses very well. That's important in real life games. In training camp, none of those things are important. The environment is much more controlled, and intelligence and intangibles take a backseat to arm strength and athleticism.There's a reason Pennington never beat out a 40 year old Testaverde in training camp, and a reason Pennington couldn't win the job in Mangini's first year until the very end of camp. He's a NFL player, not a training camp player.

It would be wise for the Jets to announce Clemens the starter for 08 and take it from there, only go with Chad in the event of an injury. Otherwise, it´ll be tough for Clemens to establish himself as the leader on offense if Chad is still lingering in the background. I understand competition brings out the best in people, but QB is a spot where the entire offense needs to know who´ll be leading them. It´s not like the team is a playoff contender here where a veteran QB starting makes sense. The ENTIRE team is in transition. I love Chad, but it´s time to turn the page.

 

[Reaper]

LINK

Jets linebacker Jonathan Vilma visits as Lions explore trade

By NICHOLAS J. COTSONIKA • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • February 27, 2008

Jets linebacker Jonathan Vilma was in the Detroit area Wednesday for a physical as the Lions explored a potential trade, according to a source.

Vilma is recovering from knee surgery but hopes to be ready for training camp. He has a year left on his contract, but the Jets are allowing him to look for a new home because he doesn’t fit their 3-4 defense.

The Lions are looking for an upgrade at middle linebacker and are listening to trade offers for defensive tackle Shaun Rogers.

Teams can begin trading Friday.

Other teams are said to be interested in Rogers, including the Broncos. But other teams are said to be interested in Vilma, too.

Vilma went to the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis so teams could evaluate him medically. The Lions waited until Wednesday.

Coach Rod Marinelli declined to discuss Vilma and all other trade talk Wednesday.

“In terms of the trades and stuff, it’s something I’m not going to talk about because it does us no good at all,” Marinelli said. “It hurts us. … We’re just talking. Nothing’s changed.”

The Jets drafted Vilma 12th overall in 2004, and he was NFL defensive rookie of the year. He made the Pro Bowl as an alternate in ’05. But all that was in a 4-3 defense like the Lions run.

When the Jets hired coach Eric Mangini in 2006, he switched to a 3-4 defense. Vilma’s production suffered, and the Jets drafted Michigan linebacker David Harris in the second round last year.

Seven games into last season, Vilma suffered a knee injury related to a preexisting condition and had surgery in November. Harris played well in Vilma’s role as the defensive signal-caller.

Asked about Vilma at the combine, Mangini said: “Jon is one of the hardest-working guys that I’ve come across, and he approaches rehab the same way he approaches everything else. It’s full-bore, all the time. … He’s making some good progress. But like with any injury, you’ve got to see how it develops.”

Jets defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson, the fourth overall pick in 2003, reportedly is also on the trading block because he doesn’t fit the 3-4 scheme and has a high salary-cap figure ($11.2 million).

 

[cstu]

I dont think Robertson is bad. He's just out of place. If he is willing to lower his cap number, i want to see him tried at 3-4 DE. I wish we had never switched the 3-4 in the first place. It's been a total disaster and there is nothing to suggest that it is strategically better.

Do you really want to see Vilma dumped for a 4th rounder? I'd much rather get a 1 year look at him next to harris and let him walk if he still sucks. We arent winning next year anyway.

I don't want assante samuel. He's a gambler who benefitted from the Pat's great scheming and pass rush. He'll be exposed playing behind a front 7 that can't get to the QB. And by exposed, i mean it will be painfully obvious that he isnt worth the massive, gigantic contract the jets would have to give him. Revis will be a CB# 1 very soon. Rhodes is about to get paid. Can't tie up all that $$ in the defensive backfield.

Totally agree with you on the QB situation. If it truly is an open competition, Chad would win teh job in camp. He's more accurate, far more experienced and will look better in 7 on 7 drills and against pre-season vanilla defenses. I'd take a week off work to celebrate if we got a 2nd for him, but i'd still be in my glory if we got a 3rd.

As i said with the O-line, i want Jacob Bell. I wouldn't be upset with faneca, because i think he'd be a great help to ferguson. I just want someone good at LG and RT. Both positions have been a disaster since MacKenzie left (other than Kendall's decent performance)

Coaching looked better after the bye, especially on D. The staff needs to have a very good year though. O-line improvement would make them look a lot better. Gotta get Leon more touches. thats a big one for me.

EDIT: I could also see Special teams taking a hit this year. That guy was by far our best coach.

Big one right there. There is nothing wrong with having a plodder in Jones getting 20 carries a game for 3.5-4 yards (hopefully this improves with more efficient o-line play) but they've GOT TO get the ball in Leon's hands. He is far and away the most athletic and explosive player on this team, and is a threat to take it to the house every time he's got the ball in his hands. I was truly shocked we didn't see more screens and dumpoffs to him this past season given his ability in the open field. People want McFadden for the sake of having a playmaker on O, and I understand and can sympathize with that - but it's not our biggest need, especially when we do already have a playmaker (although, this isn't mean to compare Leon to McFadden, but you get the point). I've said it in other posts, and I'll say it again. This team isn't that far off. People already forgot about the 10-6 season 2 years ago, and the misery of the injury riddled 05 season. After 05, people were calling the Jets one of the worst in the league. After 06, they were back to being a playoff contender. After 07, they are being lumped back in with the cellar dwellers again. Most Jet fans realize that the difference between winning and losing a lot of games this past season was, as someone said earlier, a blown play here or a 2nd half choke there. This team is not nearly as bad as the 4-12 indicates. It needs work, certainly, but with the draft deep in two of the team's biggest needs (OL and WR) and an elite pass rushing OLB ripe for the picking at 6 overall, this could all be turned around very, very quickly. Now I'm not saying I expect the Jets to make the playoffs this season, but if the [seemingly] right moves are made this offseason - starting with the proper building of the offensive line - I see no reason why this team can't win 6-8 games, and look to be competitive in the 2009 season.

More and more I get the feeling DMC ends up in NY. He would split time with TJ and take over in 2009. It leaves Leon the odd man out and he'll be stuck as a COP back.

 

[TLEF316]

Jets get Kris Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th.

Jets trade Vilma to the saints for a conditional pick

Love the Jenkins move. LLOOOOOOOOVE IT. Chances are those two picks would have just been used on "Mangini guys" (re: Anthony Schlegal ) anyway. Jenkins should be a good addition. He's been injury free for a few years now.

As for vilma, i really wish we had gotten a pick in this year's draft. But he blows up for 130+ tackles next year, we might get a 2nd.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Jets get Kris Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th.

Jets trade Vilma to the saints for a conditional pick

Love the Jenkins move. LLOOOOOOOOVE IT. Chances are those two picks would have just been used on "Mangini guys" (re: Anthony Schlegal ) anyway. Jenkins should be a good addition. He's been injury free for a few years now.

As for vilma, i really wish we had gotten a pick in this year's draft. But he blows up for 130+ tackles next year, we might get a 2nd.

I was initially disappointed when I heard the details of the Vilma trade, but I began to think about this as well - if he plays well in the Saint's scheme, then we might get better than a 3rd next year. I've been a fan of Vilma's and I always thought he was a good kid - I wish him the best and hope he has a great career with his new teamNi

 

[Shrek]

Jets get Kris Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th.

Jets trade Vilma to the saints for a conditional pick

Love the Jenkins move. LLOOOOOOOOVE IT. Chances are those two picks would have just been used on "Mangini guys" (re: Anthony Schlegal ) anyway. Jenkins should be a good addition. He's been injury free for a few years now.

As for vilma, i really wish we had gotten a pick in this year's draft. But he blows up for 130+ tackles next year, we might get a 2nd.

Wow, great news :( I like the fact that the Jets are making their moves early for once instead of picking up scraps.

 

[Reaper]

I'll copy from the other threads my feelings - I'd love to hear from Rovers and Bremmel, the defensive whizzes on what they feel about Jenkins in this defense.....

I don't like it at all..... Getting a 3rd and a condtional next year for Robertson and Vilma is horsemeat.

I liked Rogers more than Jenkins - Jenkins certainly doensn't fit Mangini's "Eat Breathe sleep FOOTBALL" mantra, I've heard from people in NC that he's a bit of a bum.

Not to mention, I was looking at that 3rd round pick in this draft for a solid Offensive linemen or a DT like Rubin......

Well, since day 1 I've said Mangini's career could depend on filling that 3-4 DT position - Well, Eric, there ya go..... You might as well make a room ready in your house cuz Kris Jenkins is practically family now - You just tied you career to this guy.

 

[TLEF316]

I'll also cross post from the other thread.....

I agree that it sucks to give these guys up for so little, but thats what happens when you murder the value of 2 of your best defenders by switching to a system that your current roster has no chance of fitting.

I like Jenkins move, as he is a proven DT who can play the nose. The NT who we would draft in the 3rd round (assuming we went that route) had about a 10% chance of ever becoming the player that Kris Jenkins is. (when he is healthy, which he has been for 2 years) The 5th is a throwaway.

I also wanted a pick this year for vilma, so I'm upset about that one.

In a perfect work, I'd rather keep D-Rob and try him at DE. However, with his cap number, that isn't happening.

The jets knew they were going to take a bath on the Vilma and D-Rob trades. (Although we don't know where and for what D-Rob is going for yet) They both have bad knees and are both awful fits for the jets 3-4. They both also had issues with the contracts (D-robs is too big, Vilma's is running out) There is almost no way the jets weren't going to get bent over dealing these two. They had no leverage at all and were dealing two injured players. Would i have rather gotten more? of course. But it just wasn't going to happen. Time to get over it and move on.

As for Rogers, he would have cost more and has a far worse reputation than Jenkins. His injury concerns are also more recent.

 

[Reaper]

I'll also cross post from the other thread.....I agree that it sucks to give these guys up for so little, but thats what happens when you murder the value of 2 of your best defenders by switching to a system that your current roster has no chance of fitting.I like Jenkins move, as he is a proven DT who can play the nose. The NT who we would draft in the 3rd round (assuming we went that route) had about a 10% chance of ever becoming the player that Kris Jenkins is. (when he is healthy, which he has been for 2 years) The 5th is a throwaway.I also wanted a pick this year for vilma, so I'm upset about that one.In a perfect work, I'd rather keep D-Rob and try him at DE. However, with his cap number, that isn't happening.The jets knew they were going to take a bath on the Vilma and D-Rob trades. (Although we don't know where and for what D-Rob is going for yet) They both have bad knees and are both awful fits for the jets 3-4. They both also had issues with the contracts (D-robs is too big, Vilma's is running out) There is almost no way the jets weren't going to get bent over dealing these two. They had no leverage at all and were dealing two injured players. Would i have rather gotten more? of course. But it just wasn't going to happen. Time to get over it and move on.As for Rogers, he would have cost more and has a far worse reputation than Jenkins. His injury concerns are also more recent.

Alright.. I'm coming off the early morning coffee ledge....I still think Mangini should set up a bed in his house for Jenkins cuz that man is practically his Jets career at this point.I hate the conditional part of the Vilma deal - the only way that makes sense is if a 1st round pick is involved because IF Vilma comes back 100%, lights it up and is Pro Bowl caliber than THAT is what he's worth, especially in next year draft!!!!Overal though regarding the 3-4 defense, I don't blame Mangini for that cuz, like I said in another thread, this wasn't the 85' Bears defense here, this was a 4-3 defense that had a ton of holes and needed a big DT anyway next to Robertson.. Someone had to take the fall - And being that Vilma and Robertson are injury concerns that they might have tried to trade in the past anyway, I can't get all excited that this staff wants to run a Flex defense.... Cuz the ultimate goal had to be a flex defense anyway - They ran a lot of 4-3 fronts, it's not as simple as changing the front and presto this is a HOF defense - it was a work in progress regardless of the front.No matter what, was Robertson going to get a contract extension with his knees? So, should they have based the entire defense on Bad Knee Robertson and Vilma???? Base a whole defense on 2 guys????? 2 injured guys at this point and not have the goal of running the Flex defense you're used to?

 

[TLEF316]

i would have prefered they just played a 4-3 from the start, because, at the time, we had the players to do so (if we had added a few more pieces) I was a big Vilma fan, so it hurts to see him be neutralized and then traded.

Overall, I'm ok with the events of this morning. I think the jenkins more was very smart. A good gamble IMO.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Vilma's troubles are tied to the 3-4. I think it's a convenient and easy excuse, but I don't think it's true. There's no schematic reason why a player like Vilma should excel in the 4-3 but not in the 3-4. The schemes simply aren't that much different, from an ILB perspective. The problem is the talent around him. Losing Abraham and Ferguson and replacing them with no one is the real reason Vilma has struggled. Kimo and Ellis, or Keyon Coleman and Ellis, teamed up with Robertson, is an awful defensive line. Hobson and Bryan Thomas don't exactly put fear into lineman, either.Put Vilma on a team with a good front 7, and he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player, regardless of what scheme he's in. Everyone always compares him to his fellow U LB in Baltimore, and Lewis was a monster his second season in the 3-4 -- because he had strong talent around him.

Chase is exactly right with regard to the scheme issues. I think the Vilma's questionable attitude with respect to the 3-4 and relatively poor SILB and NT play combined with Vilma's difficulty getting off blocks and potentially worse injury than was ever let on snowballed over the past two seasons.Vilma, in many respects, could have been as well protected in this scheme as the 4-3 he racked up tackles in.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'm not sure Jenkins has ever proven he can play nose tackle. He's always been more of a penetrating type than a space eater, despite good size. If he's healthy and motivated, which have been major issues in the past, he can be a Sam Adams type NT and command double teams by disrupting rather than plugging. Depending on what type of 3-4 front Mangini wants to lean toward this year, that may be just fine.

That's probably what was thought with Robertson, too, who had some productive snaps but was too inconsistent. Jenkins seems to be healthy now and he's still in the prime years of his career, though. I think the Jets would be smart to get him in a rotation and let him go hard for 35-40 snaps a game. With luck, he'll become what Robertson wasn't.

 

[TLEF316]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Vilma's troubles are tied to the 3-4. I think it's a convenient and easy excuse, but I don't think it's true. There's no schematic reason why a player like Vilma should excel in the 4-3 but not in the 3-4. The schemes simply aren't that much different, from an ILB perspective. The problem is the talent around him. Losing Abraham and Ferguson and replacing them with no one is the real reason Vilma has struggled. Kimo and Ellis, or Keyon Coleman and Ellis, teamed up with Robertson, is an awful defensive line. Hobson and Bryan Thomas don't exactly put fear into lineman, either.Put Vilma on a team with a good front 7, and he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player, regardless of what scheme he's in. Everyone always compares him to his fellow U LB in Baltimore, and Lewis was a monster his second season in the 3-4 -- because he had strong talent around him.

Chase is exactly right with regard to the scheme issues. I think the Vilma's questionable attitude with respect to the 3-4 and relatively poor SILB and NT play combined with Vilma's difficulty getting off blocks and potentially worse injury than was ever let on snowballed over the past two seasons.Vilma, in many respects, could have been as well protected in this scheme as the 4-3 he racked up tackles in.

i agree to a cerain extent that the players around him hurt. It was pretty much the perfect storm that was needed to neutralize a great talent like vilma....1) new scheme to learn2) loss of several key players3) lack of proper 3-4 linemen4) vilma's lack of size/block shedding ability5) injuryAll of these things attributed to Vilma's fall out in NY. He was targetted by every team that played the jets, and he didnt have the size, skill set or players around him to overcome it. It's a shame, as i really liked the guy. Had his jersey and all that. but at this point, he was pretty much a lost cause for us.

 

[TLEF316]

I'm not sure Jenkins has ever proven he can play nose tackle. He's always been more of a penetrating type than a space eater, despite good size. If he's healthy and motivated, which have been major issues in the past, he can be a Sam Adams type NT and command double teams by disrupting rather than plugging. Depending on what type of 3-4 front Mangini wants to lean toward this year, that may be just fine.That's probably what was thought with Robertson, too, who had some productive snaps but was too inconsistent. Jenkins seems to be healthy now and he's still in the prime years of his career, though. I think the Jets would be smart to get him in a rotation and let him go hard for 35-40 snaps a game. With luck, he'll become what Robertson wasn't.

yeah, i didn't really mean that he was proven at the nose. I said he was a proven DT who i think CAN play the nose. He's obviously got the size, and his game has always been more about taking up blockers (although he did have 7 sacks in 02) In many ways, he's similar to what we though robertson could become. The diference is that he's like 25 lbs heavier (and thats with Robertson playing a little heavier than he probably should be) and has already made 3 pro-bowls. Robertson just never had the bulk to hold 2 blockers. IMO, jenkins does.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I'm not sure Jenkins has ever proven he can play nose tackle. He's always been more of a penetrating type than a space eater, despite good size. If he's healthy and motivated, which have been major issues in the past, he can be a Sam Adams type NT and command double teams by disrupting rather than plugging. Depending on what type of 3-4 front Mangini wants to lean toward this year, that may be just fine.That's probably what was thought with Robertson, too, who had some productive snaps but was too inconsistent. Jenkins seems to be healthy now and he's still in the prime years of his career, though. I think the Jets would be smart to get him in a rotation and let him go hard for 35-40 snaps a game. With luck, he'll become what Robertson wasn't.

yeah, i didn't really mean that he was proven at the nose. I said he was a proven DT who i think CAN play the nose. He's obviously got the size, and his game has always been more about taking up blockers (although he did have 7 sacks in 02) In many ways, he's similar to what we though robertson could become. The diference is that he's like 25 lbs heavier (and thats with Robertson playing a little heavier than he probably should be) and has already made 3 pro-bowls. Robertson just never had the bulk to hold 2 blockers. IMO, jenkins does.

We're on the same page, brother. Hope he works out. I'd really like to see the Jet defense be what it could be. Harris, Rhodes and Revis are very nice pieces to build around. Get a solid second corner and a consistent OLB to rush the passer and this has the potential of a top tier defense.

 

[Reaper]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Vilma's troubles are tied to the 3-4. I think it's a convenient and easy excuse, but I don't think it's true. There's no schematic reason why a player like Vilma should excel in the 4-3 but not in the 3-4. The schemes simply aren't that much different, from an ILB perspective. The problem is the talent around him. Losing Abraham and Ferguson and replacing them with no one is the real reason Vilma has struggled. Kimo and Ellis, or Keyon Coleman and Ellis, teamed up with Robertson, is an awful defensive line. Hobson and Bryan Thomas don't exactly put fear into lineman, either.Put Vilma on a team with a good front 7, and he can be a Pro Bowl caliber player, regardless of what scheme he's in. Everyone always compares him to his fellow U LB in Baltimore, and Lewis was a monster his second season in the 3-4 -- because he had strong talent around him.

Chase is exactly right with regard to the scheme issues. I think the Vilma's questionable attitude with respect to the 3-4 and relatively poor SILB and NT play combined with Vilma's difficulty getting off blocks and potentially worse injury than was ever let on snowballed over the past two seasons.Vilma, in many respects, could have been as well protected in this scheme as the 4-3 he racked up tackles in.

i agree to a cerain extent that the players around him hurt. It was pretty much the perfect storm that was needed to neutralize a great talent like vilma....1) new scheme to learn2) loss of several key players3) lack of proper 3-4 linemen4) vilma's lack of size/block shedding ability5) injuryAll of these things attributed to Vilma's fall out in NY. He was targetted by every team that played the jets, and he didnt have the size, skill set or players around him to overcome it. It's a shame, as i really liked the guy. Had his jersey and all that. but at this point, he was pretty much a lost cause for us.

Now as Jets fans, we're in the catch-22 situation of having to hope he plays incredibly well depending on the "condtional Pick" Vs believing he might have been overrated....I thought all along Vilma was pretty good but, people tried to put him in the Ray Lewis - Best LB category and I think he's more like a top of the second tier player....It's true - having a John Abraham rushing from one side could open up a lot for Vilma to clean up... But, heck even Abe was always an injury risk - People who clamor for the Jets 4-3 and what could have been have visions of all these injury risk players all on the field together playing great football and to me THAT was the perfect storm and still they all would be calling for top money at their positions and were all a notch below being top talent again with injury asterisks - Abe - Vilma - Robertson - AND you still needed a bigger DT next to Robertson......I repeat that I think Mangini and staff discussed all this and decided in the end these guys probably were going to be high risk signings and they might as well install the defense that has a higher ceiling - But.................. GET THAT NT!!!!!Let's hope Kris Jenkins is that NT - I'm not against drafting and getting another one though...

 

[TLEF316]

I repeat that I think Mangini and staff discussed all this and decided in the end these guys probably were going to be high risk signings and they might as well install the defense that has a higher ceiling - But.................. GET THAT NT!!!!!Let's hope Kris Jenkins is that NT - I'm not against drafting and getting another one though...

if they had this much foresight, kudos to them.and at this point, i dont think the jets could use a first day pick on a DT. (unless they get multiple picks from trading D-rob) I think that RT and OLB are bigger needs with jenkins on board.If they liked a guy in the 4th round, i would obviously be all about taking him.

 

[Domination]

If I were the Jets and had the $, why not start Jenkins and Robertson? It would instantly improve their run defense and free up their LBs.

 

[TLEF316]

If I were the Jets and had the $, why not start Jenkins and Robertson? It would instantly improve their run defense and free up their LBs.

Robertson has never played DE, has a degenerative Knee and has an 11 million dollar cap number. It just isn't financially feasible to keep him on at that price to play him in a new position.Sort of off topic, but Jene, where do you see the jets playing Shuan Ellis and Bryan Thomas this year? Both looked like they were completely spent last year. I know there has been talk of playing ellis at OLB, but wouldnt he play the SLB, where thomas is already sucking it up?Here's hoping Gholston is on the weak side come august.

 

[Jene Bramel]

If I were the Jets and had the $, why not start Jenkins and Robertson? It would instantly improve their run defense and free up their LBs.

Robertson has never played DE, has a degenerative Knee and has an 11 million dollar cap number. It just isn't financially feasible to keep him on at that price to play him in a new position.Sort of off topic, but Jene, where do you see the jets playing Shuan Ellis and Bryan Thomas this year? Both looked like they were completely spent last year. I know there has been talk of playing ellis at OLB, but wouldnt he play the SLB, where thomas is already sucking it up?Here's hoping Gholston is on the weak side come august.

I haven't heard any of that talk, but I haven't followed him closely enough this winter. Ellis is explosive, but it's all relative. There's no way he can close down the edge as an OLB and even less of a chance he can cover. And he's an underrated run defender. I think I'd play him on the open end and let him penetrate as a 5-technique. Definitely agree that there has to be a more consistent pass rush from outside, but some of that will come from upgrading the run defense. Pass rush is useless if teams run on you over 50% of the time when the league average is closer to 55 pass/45 run.

 

[Rovers]

There were some really good posts here, especially Kidnets, so I didn't have much to add, until now.

I like the Jenkins deal... almost a lot. We know what DRob brings to this scheme, and it isn't enough. All too often, he reverted back to playing NT like a 3T. That resulted in a couple of sacks and some pressures, but it cost the run D. Although he is only 26, he has the knees of a 40 year old.

Jenkins could have the same trouble Robertson did adjusting to NT in the 3-4 from his days in Carolina as a 4-3 DT, but I can only see a lateral move here as a worst case scenario, with upside for an improved run defense. If Jenkins takes to the scheme, the defense is going to be significantly improved. I haven't seen him a lot, but I've read he has a rep as a guy that often occupied two blockers on that Panther D. If that is true, then the Jets made a great move.

If the Jets are to fix the O line, with FA's like Faneca at LG and Woody at RT, that big contract for Robertson not only makes him expendable, but an addition by subtraction when they do unload him. And that is what it is at this point, they need to dump his salary to free up FA money. Although Woody got benched as a guard this year, I read he filled in well at RT for the last five games of the season for Detroit. That would shore up the O line, and allow the Jets to look for defense in the draft.

If the above moves happen, then only two big holes remain. An edge rusher and a CB. They might use some of that DRob money on Coles too. If Stucki can come back healthy, I think he can be a significant contributor. I beleive the Jets were also thinking this way when they released McCariens.

Too bad Vilma's knee is a question mark.... but he had to go too. A conditional pick is probably the best option the Jets had at this point. A 3 and a 5 is a bit steep for Jenkins... but There weren't any promising rookies in this draft that could come in and start as a 3-4 NT right away. That hole had to be addressed, and that's what the Jets did. K Coleman is very good against the run and Ellis is still servicable on the other side. I could see the Jets going for a OLB speed rusher type in the first round now. Which one they have their oye on I have no idea... just my hunch.

Samuel is going to be way too expensive, but I think the Jets will get involved for PR purposes only. The release of Dyson surprised me though, and I have no clue what the thinking is there, but the Jets need another CB now for sure.

The Jets had no choice but to shake things up, and finally get the right players for Mangini's D schemes. I see this as a big move in that direction, and am cautiously optomistic... but aren't we all every year at this point?

 

[TLEF316]

It really appears that Dyson never recovered from the injury at the end of 06. He tried to give it a shot in foxboro in the playoffs and he just didnt have it. He's a shell of what he was. Still a surprising cut, but they obviously have more medical information than we do.

Justin Miller probably gets one more shot at CB this year. My guess is that we throw revis and poteat out there with Miller playing nickle. Not horrible, especially with Rhodes behind them.