10 Current Players Who Are HOF Locks (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

Gates massive edge in touchdowns does give him a decent-sized edge over Witten. Like with WRs, the truly great TEs score touchdowns. 57 touchdowns in 181 career starts is not HOF-worthy.

 

[shadyridr]

Pretty amazing. Guys in the mlb don't get voted into the HOF based on speculation of steroids. Meanwhile gates gets suspended and hes still a mortal lock

 

[Bri]

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.

How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.

Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

I agree Gonzalez is the best TE in NFL history. No problem saying he had a better career than Gates has had. However, it is worth comparing them in their first 12 seasons, since that is how many seasons Gates has played to this point:

Gonzalez: 190 games, 1356 targets, 916 receptions, 10940 receiving yards (11.9 YPR, 8.1 YPT), 597 first downs (65.2% of catches), 76 TDs

Gates: 179 games, 1179 targets, 788 receptions, 10019 receiving yards (12.7 YPR, 8.5 YPT), 553 first downs (70.2% of catches), 99 TDs

Gates has arguably been better. Unfortunately for Gates, I doubt he will finish his career as strongly as Gonzalez did, and that is where the real separation will occur between them.

Told ya...

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

 

[Bri]

Gates massive edge in touchdowns does give him a decent-sized edge over Witten. Like with WRs, the truly great TEs score touchdowns. 57 touchdowns in 181 career starts is not HOF-worthy.

Gates does have a giant edge in TDs, but TEs are in the HOF for around 60. It's not a deal breaker or anything

 

[Ghost Rider]

Gates massive edge in touchdowns does give him a decent-sized edge over Witten. Like with WRs, the truly great TEs score touchdowns. 57 touchdowns in 181 career starts is not HOF-worthy.

Gates does have a giant edge in TDs, but TEs are in the HOF for around 60. It's not a deal breaker or anything

TEs from different eras do not matter. In this day and age of more scoring and crazy passing and receiving numbers, 60 touchdowns for a career doesn't cut it. Gronk has played 126 less games than Witten and is only 5 touchdowns behind him already.

 

[Bri]

Gates massive edge in touchdowns does give him a decent-sized edge over Witten. Like with WRs, the truly great TEs score touchdowns. 57 touchdowns in 181 career starts is not HOF-worthy.

Gates does have a giant edge in TDs, but TEs are in the HOF for around 60. It's not a deal breaker or anything

TEs from different eras do not matter. In this day and age of more scoring and crazy passing and receiving numbers, 60 touchdowns for a career doesn't cut it. Gronk has played 126 less games than Witten and is only 5 touchdowns behind him already.

Gronk will never get 10k yards

 

[Tau837]

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.

How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.

Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

I agree Gonzalez is the best TE in NFL history. No problem saying he had a better career than Gates has had. However, it is worth comparing them in their first 12 seasons, since that is how many seasons Gates has played to this point:

Gonzalez: 190 games, 1356 targets, 916 receptions, 10940 receiving yards (11.9 YPR, 8.1 YPT), 597 first downs (65.2% of catches), 76 TDs

Gates: 179 games, 1179 targets, 788 receptions, 10019 receiving yards (12.7 YPR, 8.5 YPT), 553 first downs (70.2% of catches), 99 TDs

Gates has arguably been better. Unfortunately for Gates, I doubt he will finish his career as strongly as Gonzalez did, and that is where the real separation will occur between them.

Told ya...

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem. In my post you quoted here, you seem to have ignored the first two sentences (I agree Gonzalez is the best TE in NFL history. No problem saying he had a better career than Gates has had.) and the sentence after the sentence you bolded (Unfortunately for Gates, I doubt he will finish his career as strongly as Gonzalez did, and that is where the real separation will occur between them.).

As for their performance in their first 12 seasons, Gonzalez had more targets, receptions, yards, and first downs. Gates had higher YPR, YPT, and percentage of first downs along with a huge edge in TDs. If you don't think Gates was arguably better over those stretches, you're wrong.

 

[Tau837]

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

And I remember you being unable to grasp the actual situation that led the Chargers to let Brees go, even though it was patiently explained to you multiple times.

It wasn't because Rivers was better, and I don't recall a single Chargers fan in this forum saying that. And I'm the biggest Rivers fan in this forum.

 

[Tau837]

Gates massive edge in touchdowns does give him a decent-sized edge over Witten. Like with WRs, the truly great TEs score touchdowns. 57 touchdowns in 181 career starts is not HOF-worthy.

Gates does have a giant edge in TDs, but TEs are in the HOF for around 60. It's not a deal breaker or anything

TEs from different eras do not matter. In this day and age of more scoring and crazy passing and receiving numbers, 60 touchdowns for a career doesn't cut it. Gronk has played 126 less games than Witten and is only 5 touchdowns behind him already.

Gronk will never get 10k yards

It's no given since he has had injury problems. But he is 26, has 4379 career receiving yards, and is coming off a season with 1124 receiving yards despite playing only 15 games and starting only 10 games. He has averaged 67.4 receiving yards per game in his career. If he maintains that pace, he needs to play 83 more games to break 10K.

If I had to put money on it, I'd take the over.

 

[BoltBacker]

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

I think Gonzales may be the second best football player I have seen play the game, or at least in that tier behind Ronny Lott. Have never heard a SD fan say a negative word about Gonzales.

But I agree with you that Witten should, and will get in. Witten was a much better blocker over his career than some of the pure receiver TE's that pile up stats. That's why it's so tough for WRs, they only have receiving stats to make their case and as 4k passing stats become more and more common the receiving stats from yesteryear become less and less impactfull imo. There will never be another Lynn Swann allowed in.

 

[BoltBacker]

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

And I remember you being unable to grasp the actual situation that led the Chargers to let Brees go, even though it was patiently explained to you multiple times.

It wasn't because Rivers was better, and I don't recall a single Chargers fan in this forum saying that. And I'm the biggest Rivers fan in this forum.

I said many times that if Rivers played behind the same OL and threw the ball nearly 700 times a season everyone would wonder how on earth the Chargers ever let Rivers get away because he'd be putting up the same monster stats. I stand by that even today. When you point out that even behind much, much worse OLs over the years that Rivers has a higher qb rating than Brees most fans are kind of dumbfounded because it completely ruins the narrative they have playing over and over in their head. And I am not a Brees hater, btw. They are both great.

 

[BoltBacker]

Pretty amazing. Guys in the mlb don't get voted into the HOF based on speculation of steroids. Meanwhile gates gets suspended and hes still a mortal lock

Should Lawrence Taylor be in the HOF?

 

[Anarchy99]

Even with his injury history, Gronk has 400 more receiving yards career wise through age 25 than any other TE ever had.

And if he were a WR, he'd rank as the #6 WR in receiving yards through age 25.

If he can string together a few healthy seasons in a row, he could wind up with Top 5 WR numbers.

 

[Bri]

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.

How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.

Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

I agree Gonzalez is the best TE in NFL history. No problem saying he had a better career than Gates has had. However, it is worth comparing them in their first 12 seasons, since that is how many seasons Gates has played to this point:

Gonzalez: 190 games, 1356 targets, 916 receptions, 10940 receiving yards (11.9 YPR, 8.1 YPT), 597 first downs (65.2% of catches), 76 TDs

Gates: 179 games, 1179 targets, 788 receptions, 10019 receiving yards (12.7 YPR, 8.5 YPT), 553 first downs (70.2% of catches), 99 TDs

Gates has arguably been better. Unfortunately for Gates, I doubt he will finish his career as strongly as Gonzalez did, and that is where the real separation will occur between them.

Told ya...

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem. In my post you quoted here, you seem to have ignored the first two sentences (I agree Gonzalez is the best TE in NFL history. No problem saying he had a better career than Gates has had.) and the sentence after the sentence you bolded (Unfortunately for Gates, I doubt he will finish his career as strongly as Gonzalez did, and that is where the real separation will occur between them.).

As for their performance in their first 12 seasons, Gonzalez had more targets, receptions, yards, and first downs. Gates had higher YPR, YPT, and percentage of first downs along with a huge edge in TDs. If you don't think Gates was arguably better over those stretches, you're wrong.

Oh Cmon man, yes you gave Tony G all this credit and then had to, had to because you bleed your gold and blue, say Gates has arguably been better. I didn't miss that

 

[Anarchy99]

And through age 25, Gronk is second in receiving TDs only to Moss.

 

[BoltBacker]

On the flip side, Witten wasn't a cheater.

Good point, if a cheater ever got into a sports HOF that would mess everything up.

 

[Tau837]

I can't imagine what your argument is with Witten. He made the pro bowl 10 times already. He was 1st team all pro during the Tony G and Gates era, twice. He was chosen over those two those years. He's only missed two games. His 110 catches in a season are the most by a TE. I believe his 18 catches in a single game are as well. For extra bonus type- He was Walter Payton NFL man of the year once.

The argument is simple and you alluded to it. Written was at best the third best TE of his era behind Gonzalez and Gates. And his era also overlapped with others who will surpass him in Gronk and Graham.How many modern era TEs are in the HOF, 10? Going back 50 years? Now consider he is in competition with all positions. For example, look at all of the WR candidates. Who has been more valuable, Witten or Fitz? Etc.

The bar is too high for Witten.

You're a Chargers fan though and it's been pretty well proven they lack objectivity here as Gates is a darling of their fans. You're just wrong because of how things developed over the years with the Chiefs and Chargers in the same division and the "my TE is better than your TE" shpeal. You probably don't admit Tony G was significantly better, very few do even though he amassed 500 more catches and 5000 more yards than Gates.Witten has more catches and more yards than Gates during the exact same time period. Gates has more TDs. Witten has two 1st team all pro, Gates has 3. Witten has 10 pro bowls, Gates has 8.

So the guy with less catches and yards and pro bowls is soooo much better? it's not homerism?

I think Gonzales may be the second best football player I have seen play the game, or at least in that tier behind Ronny Lott. Have never heard a SD fan say a negative word about Gonzales.

But I agree with you that Witten should, and will get in. Witten was a much better blocker over his career than some of the pure receiver TE's that pile up stats. That's why it's so tough for WRs, they only have receiving stats to make their case and as 4k passing stats become more and more common the receiving stats from yesteryear become less and less impactfull imo. There will never be another Lynn Swann allowed in.

The problem with this is the inability to quantify how much the difference in blocking matters. How many extra yards did Dallas gain due to Witten's blocking? How do you separate the impact of Witten's blocking from that of the other Dallas blockers (OL, FB, WRs)?

The difficulty in answering these questions is why inevitably most TEs inducted in the past, especially the recent past, were inducted because of their receiving accomplishments, without regard to their blocking. 4 of the past 5 were not good blockers: Winslow, Sharpe, Newsome, Sanders. Casper was the other guy, and his career ended in 1984. It is safe to say that the TE position has changed quite a bit since then, in large part due to some of these HOFers, like Winslow and Newsome.

 

[Bri]

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

And I remember you being unable to grasp the actual situation that led the Chargers to let Brees go, even though it was patiently explained to you multiple times.

It wasn't because Rivers was better, and I don't recall a single Chargers fan in this forum saying that. And I'm the biggest Rivers fan in this forum.

I said many times that if Rivers played behind the same OL and threw the ball nearly 700 times a season everyone would wonder how on earth the Chargers ever let Rivers get away because he'd be putting up the same monster stats. I stand by that even today. When you point out that even behind much, much worse OLs over the years that Rivers has a higher qb rating than Brees most fans are kind of dumbfounded because it completely ruins the narrative they have playing over and over in their head. And I am not a Brees hater, btw. They are both great.

Yep there it is.

Some of the best analytical minds on this board are SD fans but with the other 31 teams and NFL history.

Who doesn't have some homerism? Geesh it's not a bad thing, ya just love your team

 

[BoltBacker]

Pro Bowls don't mean nearly as much now since so many players skip it. When those guys skip it, other guys get qualified as Pro Bowlers to replace them. So there's like a 15-20% inflation of number of Pro Bowlers which devalues the whole thing.

Pro Bowls have been watered down and the same with stats like a 1,000 yard rusher now with 16 game schedules as apposed to when teams only played 12 game seasons like a Jim Brown when he left the game lapped every single player by thousands of yards and dozens of TDs, oh and Brown never missed a game in his career.Joe Thomas doesn't play a position where he can ring up cheap POS stats just because. He plays a position where guys come in and look like the next Anthony Munoz but they flame out. See Jake Long or Matt Kahlill, or Jason Smith, or Levi Brown, or D'Brickshaw Ferguson, or a Robert Gallery, or a ....

Considering that Joe Thomas didn't just start hot but has consistently performed better than ANYONE at his position during his career and has never missed a single snap in his career and he has made ALL-PRO status in his career meaning he was voted as the best at this position by his peers means he isn't just some guy who put up cheap stats or was some flashy guy who everyone remembers one play. He is the meat and potatoes that the game relies on and he gets overlooked and that is why this list has no other offensive linemen. They get overlooked unless they make a mistake.

Name another offensive lineman who has been as consistently good and durable over the last decade? Over the last two decades? Three?

That legacy is why Joe Thomas is going to the HOF.

I completely agree with all of this. The All-Pro selections on their own will get him in and deservidly so.

 

[BoltBacker]

I remember the Chargers fans saying Rivers was better even when Brees was MVP and winning a Supe and...you're very loyal

And I remember you being unable to grasp the actual situation that led the Chargers to let Brees go, even though it was patiently explained to you multiple times.

It wasn't because Rivers was better, and I don't recall a single Chargers fan in this forum saying that. And I'm the biggest Rivers fan in this forum.

I said many times that if Rivers played behind the same OL and threw the ball nearly 700 times a season everyone would wonder how on earth the Chargers ever let Rivers get away because he'd be putting up the same monster stats. I stand by that even today. When you point out that even behind much, much worse OLs over the years that Rivers has a higher qb rating than Brees most fans are kind of dumbfounded because it completely ruins the narrative they have playing over and over in their head. And I am not a Brees hater, btw. They are both great.

Yep there it is.Some of the best analytical minds on this board are SD fans but with the other 31 teams and NFL history.

Who doesn't have some homerism? Geesh it's not a bad thing, ya just love your team

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_att_single_season.htmIn the history of the NFL a qb has 650+ pass attempts in a season 13 times. SIX of those 13 were Brees. Nobody else has done it more than twice.

(Shrug) If that's homerism, so be it.

Over the past 5 years Brees has averaged 659 attempts per season. If you give Andy Dalton 659 attempts he goes for 4613/31. A lot of people will tell you he's not exactly "elite". Just sayin'.

 

[ZWK]

Pro Bowls don't mean nearly as much now since so many players skip it. When those guys skip it, other guys get qualified as Pro Bowlers to replace them. So there's like a 15-20% inflation of number of Pro Bowlers which devalues the whole thing.

Pro Bowls have been watered down and the same with stats like a 1,000 yard rusher now with 16 game schedules as apposed to when teams only played 12 game seasons like a Jim Brown when he left the game lapped every single player by thousands of yards and dozens of TDs, oh and Brown never missed a game in his career.Joe Thomas doesn't play a position where he can ring up cheap POS stats just because. He plays a position where guys come in and look like the next Anthony Munoz but they flame out. See Jake Long or Matt Kahlill, or Jason Smith, or Levi Brown, or D'Brickshaw Ferguson, or a Robert Gallery, or a ....

Considering that Joe Thomas didn't just start hot but has consistently performed better than ANYONE at his position during his career and has never missed a single snap in his career and he has made ALL-PRO status in his career meaning he was voted as the best at this position by his peers means he isn't just some guy who put up cheap stats or was some flashy guy who everyone remembers one play. He is the meat and potatoes that the game relies on and he gets overlooked and that is why this list has no other offensive linemen. They get overlooked unless they make a mistake.

Name another offensive lineman who has been as consistently good and durable over the last decade? Over the last two decades? Three?

That legacy is why Joe Thomas is going to the HOF.

I completely agree with all of this. The All-Pro selections on their own will get him in and deservidly so.

Good point about the Pro Bowl inflation, GroveDiesel. I had thought that PFR only credited players who were originally selected to the Pro Bowl, and not the injury replacements, but I was wrong. PB+AP would make a better career summary stat if it only included voted-in Pro Bowls.

If we just look at All-Pros, here is a complete list of all the players who 1) retired before 2010, 2) aren't in the Hall, and 3) have 4+ All-Pros since 1970:

AP Player

5 Zach Thomas

4 LeRoy Butler

That is all.

Joe Thomas, Kevin Williams, and Patrick Willis are all sitting with 5. Jahri Evans, Revis, Polamalu, and Ware all have 4.

 

[Phenomena]

The only people that belong in the hall of fame are the people that everyone's like "yea, he belongs there..." ... if more than 10% of the population doubt a guy he's probably not getting in. Guys that have dominated their position for a decade like Witten and Gates will make it, and Peterson/Revis.

 

[Freelove]

The only people that belong in the hall of fame are the people that everyone's like "yea, he belongs there..." ... if more than 10% of the population doubt a guy he's probably not getting in. Guys that have dominated their position for a decade like Witten and Gates will make it, and Peterson/Revis.

Witten? Dominated?

 

[Borden]

I forget where I heard it but... If you have to think about if they should be in the HoF then they shouldn't be in.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I forget where I heard it but... If you have to think about if they should be in the HoF then they shouldn't be in.

That's a stupid narrative that some love to spin. Not every HOFer is going to be a 100% no brainer lock.