10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

First of all, I don't think The Communist Manifesto has planks, so this is obviously someone's interpretation.

Second, I think that if Marx lived in the United States at this time, he would not be a communist. His critique of capitalism was based on the beginnings of the industrial revolution: child labor, horrible labor conditions, a small minority owning everything, and most important of all, a fixed amount of resources and wealth. He never realized that capitalism actually creates new wealth rather than steal it.

Interesting. How exactly does capitalism go about creating new wealth? Does it materialize out of thin air?

I think he was talking about the economic growth that a capitalistic system tends to create.

I hope you are right and that's what he was trying to say.

No, I'm talking about wealth. It does not materialize out of thin air, but out of the minds of men. Ayn Rand is the best I have ever read at explaining this, so I would recommend her writings to you, but here's an example: before Bill Gates developed Microsoft, there was no wealth that represented it. He created value in something where there was nothing before, as a result of his mind and the minds of the men who worked with him. Now Microsoft is one of the largest companies in the world, employing thousands of people. Immense wealth, created as a result of the minds of a few people free to operate within the caapitalist system.

 

[Christo]

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production

Pretty sure these have been in existence in America for the better part of 200 years. Does that mean that we've always been half-communist??

I don't think so on #6.

Odd and thats the first one I was for sure on...The FCC, Department of Transportation, & the FAA come to mind

Means = A method, a course of action, or an instrument by which an act can be accomplished or an end achieved. There is no government television station, railway or airline. Regulating private industry does not qualify us for #6.

PBS?Doesn't Amtrack get monstrous subsidies from the govt and should they not, they'd go under immediately? I know all airlines get subsidies to connect to small airports.

PBS is privately owned. I forgot about Amtrak. I think its co-owned by the government and different RR companies.

 

[theunfortunatealiai]

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production

Pretty sure these have been in existence in America for the better part of 200 years. Does that mean that we've always been half-communist??

I don't think so on #6.

Odd and thats the first one I was for sure on...The FCC, Department of Transportation, & the FAA come to mind

Means = A method, a course of action, or an instrument by which an act can be accomplished or an end achieved. There is no government television station, railway or airline. Regulating private industry does not qualify us for #6.

PBS?Doesn't Amtrack get monstrous subsidies from the govt and should they not, they'd go under immediately? I know all airlines get subsidies to connect to small airports.

PBS is privately owned. I forgot about Amtrak. I think its co-owned by the government and different RR companies.

Didn't know that about PBS

 

[NCCommish]

Heck, even #3 is getting close with the ridiculous inheritance tax.

I hope this is sarcasm. The inheritance tax actually affects an exceedingly small number of people.

 

[NCCommish]

BTW the first post came off like the usual I just got this email crap. Go read the Communist manifesto and then come back and we'll have an adult discussion about it.

 

[Claydon]

BTW the first post came off like the usual I just got this email crap. Go read the Communist manifesto and then come back and we'll have an adult discussion about it.

Who the hell wants to read something written by two lazy young men?Again, see my sig.

 

[NCCommish]

BTW the first post came off like the usual I just got this email crap. Go read the Communist manifesto and then come back and we'll have an adult discussion about it.

Who the hell wants to read something written by two lazy young men?Again, see my sig.

People who want to be actually know what they are talking about when referencing the book? People who want to understand the differences between communism and what the Soviets and Chinese came up with?

 

[NCCommish]

For anyone interested in reading the book. It's available from the Gutenberg Project as a free ebook download.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.

We are almost there, a few more months should do it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

First of all, I don't think The Communist Manifesto has planks, so this is obviously someone's interpretation.

Second, I think that if Marx lived in the United States at this time, he would not be a communist. His critique of capitalism was based on the beginnings of the industrial revolution: child labor, horrible labor conditions, a small minority owning everything, and most important of all, a fixed amount of resources and wealth. He never realized that capitalism actually creates new wealth rather than steal it.

Interesting. How exactly does capitalism go about creating new wealth? Does it materialize out of thin air?

I think he was talking about the economic growth that a capitalistic system tends to create.

I hope you are right and that's what he was trying to say.

No, I'm talking about wealth. It does not materialize out of thin air, but out of the minds of men. Ayn Rand is the best I have ever read at explaining this, so I would recommend her writings to you, but here's an example: before Bill Gates developed Microsoft, there was no wealth that represented it. He created value in something where there was nothing before, as a result of his mind and the minds of the men who worked with him. Now Microsoft is one of the largest companies in the world, employing thousands of people. Immense wealth, created as a result of the minds of a few people free to operate within the caapitalist system.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/13/remarks-president-campaign-event-roanoke-virginia

I get the point, of course, but there's something very negating here still about his POV and there's something very seriously dangerous. The source of wealth, innovation, creation, the very autonomy over one's life and control over personal property is the very basis of our individual freedoms.

It's a small thing to say - who built what and who gets the credit - but it is extremely, extremely important, because if what Obama is indeed 100% literally right I have no idea why Marx was not right and why the communist manifesto should not, as a philosophical matter, be applied.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

BTW the first post came off like the usual I just got this email crap. Go read the Communist manifesto and then come back and we'll have an adult discussion about it.

Fwiw I have a copy, yes I've read it.