14 Killed in Shooting in San Bernardino (1 Viewer)

[Doug B]

However the evidence has strongly suggested that its some sort of terror plot since about 5pm yesterday.

Starting to get the feeling that Sayd Farook's apparent hot-headedness MIGHT have saved lives here.

The activities of that terror cell that we know of so far ... IMHO they weren't planning to shoot up a conference room and a medical lobby. All those pipe bombs and IEDs being built by the other guys in the cell (at the house) -- where were those things headed? A mall? Movie theater? Sporting event? Some other soft target? Farook appears to have been totally willing to compromise his cell to make a personal point -- to the possible detriment of a potentially deadlier mission for the overall cell.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

According to reports there were quite a few IED's in the home and allegedly quite a bit of activity late at night be several people at the home for several weeks. It seems they possibly were going to plan a "terrorist" event somewhere else but the guy got upset at the celebration and decided to come back to the "celebration" to wreck havoc there first. Then they go home, maybe to reload weapons, and take off again. Police got a tip and had the home under watch. They drive off again, when the shootout happens. I think there is more to the overall plan these two had been working on, besides what they did at the celebration. I think there are also a lot more people involved besides just these two which is the focus by the FBI right now.

They dropped off the kid with the mom and said they had doctor appointments. Its safe to say they had something planned that day. I haven't seen first hand witness talking about him being upset at the event, only that he was missing and they noticed when they were taking the group picture.

Maybe going to the party was just his way of casing the joint before the attack? I know he worked there, but maybe there was some reason to have a look before going in guns ablaze?

 

[shader]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

 

[Soulfly3]

not officially calling this Terrorism after nearly 24hrs is ridiculous.

Does it really that much to you?? What is the purpose of screaming TERRORISM!!!! before all evidence is gathered??

Why do people feel the need to label things ASAP

Why aren't they, is the question? You think they honestly don't know this, almost immediately?

FBI, CIA etc... they know within an extremely short period of time what it is.

Why is it being hidden? Why did the police officer being interviewed on TV say "I didnt want to start an international incident"?... and yet that statement went hush nearly immediately.

Something much bigger is happening, and they likely know it... and want, perhaps, to "play dumb" to get the other individuals out of hiding

In regards to the Bold part.. Wouldn't that be a good thing

I dont think playing dumb will get them out of hiding any more than if they announced it what it really is.

This was an obvious sleeper cell... and has been stewing for a long while. they have a plan for hiding that's probably been rehearsed 100000 times. they'll stick to it, im certain

Really?? seems a little early to proclaim that before all information is gathered but I guess we will take your word on it

Ya, maybe "obvious" wasnt the right word... But the one guy is an american citizen now... meaning he's lived in the US for quite some time, no?

Working in a well respected govt job... Solid Uni education... if anything, this seems to be a long play type deal.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Myself, wife, and good friend who frequents these boards visiting out of town. We take everyone to the Clevelander in South Beach where Dan LeBatard and Stugotz do their daily radio show, awesome place to grab a seat and people watch.

We are enjoying some drinks and a young 20-something guy with a Middle Eastern look including a thick beard strolls right into the outside pool area with a shoulder/hip bag and proceeds to go to the very center of the dance floor area where the most damage could potentially be done. I quickly start asking questions of the friends in my group and they looked at me shocked that I would even think about this...only 1 week removed form the Paris bombings I didn't think I was all that paranoid.

A couple minutes later another fellow with a back pack came in form the opposite side and met him in the middle of the dance area. I immediately went to security at that point and pointed them out and asked how these 2 guys could do this? Look around, do you see any other men in here with shoulder or back packs that could potentially have weapons in them? Security was quick to act and to be honest it felt like these punks were doing it purposely to get a rise out of folks or see what would happen.

Am I nuts? Yeah probably but better to be safe than sorry. When the guys didn't want to open the bags they were removed rather quickly. I was shocked they were able to just waltz in like that. Maybe many of you think they should be allowed to do that.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Well this thread is going along just as expected......................

Yep, Tim woke up and well the rest is history

I find the new, unapologetic, rabid partisan Tim refreshing from the one who tried to argue he was a moderate conservative, libertarian influenced voice of reason open to all sides in a debate. He is becoming his own best counterargument.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

How about Mazel Tov?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

However the evidence has strongly suggested that its some sort of terror plot since about 5pm yesterday.

Starting to get the feeling that Sayd Farook's apparent hot-headedness MIGHT have saved lives here.

The activities of that terror cell that we know of so far ... IMHO they weren't planning to shoot up a conference room and a medical lobby. All those pipe bombs and IEDs being built by the other guys in the cell (at the house) -- where were those things headed? A mall? Movie theater? Sporting event? Some other soft target? Farook appears to have been totally willing to compromise his cell to make a personal point -- to the possible detriment of a potentially deadlier mission for the overall cell.

I think you may be on to something here. good post

 

[Foosball God]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

Kind of like every muslim that shoots someone isn't necessarily a terrorist.

 

[Doug B]

Working in a well respected govt job... Solid Uni education... if anything, this seems to be a long play type deal.But the one guy is an american citizen now... meaning he's lived in the US for quite some time, no?

Sayd Farook was born in the United States. His parents were Pakistani immigrants.

It's probably more effective to radicalize American Muslims (and even non-Muslims like Jose Padilla) than it is to sneak in radicals.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Myself, wife, and good friend who frequents these boards visiting out of town. We take everyone to the Clevelander in South Beach where Dan LeBatard and Stugotz do their daily radio show, awesome place to grab a seat and people watch.

We are enjoying some drinks and a young 20-something guy with a Middle Eastern look including a thick beard strolls right into the outside pool area with a shoulder/hip bag and proceeds to go to the very center of the dance floor area where the most damage could potentially be done. I quickly start asking questions of the friends in my group and they looked at me shocked that I would even think about this...only 1 week removed form the Paris bombings I didn't think I was all that paranoid.

A couple minutes later another fellow with a back pack came in form the opposite side and met him in the middle of the dance area. I immediately went to security at that point and pointed them out and asked how these 2 guys could do this? Look around, do you see any other men in here with shoulder or back packs that could potentially have weapons in them? Security was quick to act and to be honest it felt like these punks were doing it purposely to get a rise out of folks or see what would happen.

Am I nuts? Yeah probably but better to be safe than sorry. When the guys didn't want to open the bags they were removed rather quickly. I was shocked they were able to just waltz in like that. Maybe many of you think they should be allowed to do that.

No I think what you did here is legit.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Myself, wife, and good friend who frequents these boards visiting out of town. We take everyone to the Clevelander in South Beach where Dan LeBatard and Stugotz do their daily radio show, awesome place to grab a seat and people watch.

We are enjoying some drinks and a young 20-something guy with a Middle Eastern look including a thick beard strolls right into the outside pool area with a shoulder/hip bag and proceeds to go to the very center of the dance floor area where the most damage could potentially be done. I quickly start asking questions of the friends in my group and they looked at me shocked that I would even think about this...only 1 week removed form the Paris bombings I didn't think I was all that paranoid.

A couple minutes later another fellow with a back pack came in form the opposite side and met him in the middle of the dance area. I immediately went to security at that point and pointed them out and asked how these 2 guys could do this? Look around, do you see any other men in here with shoulder or back packs that could potentially have weapons in them? Security was quick to act and to be honest it felt like these punks were doing it purposely to get a rise out of folks or see what would happen.

Am I nuts? Yeah probably but better to be safe than sorry. When the guys didn't want to open the bags they were removed rather quickly. I was shocked they were able to just waltz in like that. Maybe many of you think they should be allowed to do that.

So you just sat there and pointed them out to security and didn't bother to get up and run away?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

The only enemies of humanity who are 100% consistent in what they chant are the ones who chant "Roll Tide".

 

[Soulfly3]

Working in a well respected govt job... Solid Uni education... if anything, this seems to be a long play type deal.But the one guy is an american citizen now... meaning he's lived in the US for quite some time, no?

Sayd Farook was born in the United States. His parents were Pakistani immigrants.

It's probably more effective to radicalize American Muslims (and even non-Muslims like Jose Padilla) than it is to sneak in radicals.

I must have missed this part in the barrage of info

 

[whoknew]

I'll humor the Utopian seeking folks who believe the fastest way to get there is outlaw guns or at least enact some new laws. Before I go on though I will give Obama credit for making a valid point. If we have a list of folks who are on a no fly list meaning they can't board an airplane in this country, certainly those same folks should be on a list that forbids them from purchasing a gun, no problem with that add on.

Once again, please do some research on the no fly list.

Do you know how you get on there? Do you know what the standards are to get you (or anyone) on there? Do you know how you know if you are on there? Do you know what you can do if you are mistakenly put on the no fly list?

I'll help - you don't know the answers to those questions because its a secret list with no judicial oversight and no judicial process for the people put on the list.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

However the evidence has strongly suggested that its some sort of terror plot since about 5pm yesterday.

Starting to get the feeling that Sayd Farook's apparent hot-headedness MIGHT have saved lives here.

The activities of that terror cell that we know of so far ... IMHO they weren't planning to shoot up a conference room and a medical lobby. All those pipe bombs and IEDs being built by the other guys in the cell (at the house) -- where were those things headed? A mall? Movie theater? Sporting event? Some other soft target? Farook appears to have been totally willing to compromise his cell to make a personal point -- to the possible detriment of a potentially deadlier mission for the overall cell.

Nice post DB, let's ask a larger question. How many of these cells whether ISIS direct or not are lurking around in this country? McVeigh showed that you can simply be mad at America from within to act out violently. ISIS might not recruit a lot from America but they can and will inspire idiots misguided here into doing things like we saw yesterday.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

Kind of like every muslim that shoots someone isn't necessarily a terrorist.

You mean not every muslim that shoots someone is a terrorist.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'll humor the Utopian seeking folks who believe the fastest way to get there is outlaw guns or at least enact some new laws. Before I go on though I will give Obama credit for making a valid point. If we have a list of folks who are on a no fly list meaning they can't board an airplane in this country, certainly those same folks should be on a list that forbids them from purchasing a gun, no problem with that add on.

Once again, please do some research on the no fly list.

Do you know how you get on there? Do you know what the standards are to get you (or anyone) on there? Do you know how you know if you are on there? Do you know what you can do if you are mistakenly put on the no fly list?

I'll help - you don't know the answers to those questions because its a secret list with no judicial oversight and no judicial process for the people put on the list.

Obama said this yesterday, I was simply agreeing with the President in theory. If you know every little detail in it, all the more power to you. It doesn't change my opinion.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Looks like a half & half to me. He felt like an outsider at work. Maybe got into a bunch of spats there. Things weren't going well. At the same time all these attacks happening around the world. Maybe started watching the terror recruitment videos online. Felt like could finally be a part of something rather than be excluded. Found a kindred spirit who stoked the idea of an attack. One final straw and decides now is the time. Shoots up his office in the name of terrorism. If he didn't look like he did, have the name he did or believe in the religion he did, this would "just" be a mass, workplace shooting.

I think the reason you don't want to publicly label stuff like this "islamic terrorism" is because of people precisely like these who carried out the attack. People who may be on the fence. People feeling they are not part of society. You start framing it an us vs. them issue and sooner than later there are going to be a lot more of "them". Call it mass murder. We don't need to (in a few people's eyes) glorify it.

 

[shader]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

The only enemies of humanity who are 100% consistent in what they chant are the ones who chant "Roll Tide".

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's obviously terrorism, the only question is whether these guys drew inspiration from ISIS or were directly in contact with ISIS. To me it appeared to be lone-wolf Jihadists, but the go-pro cameras threw me. Hopefully those videos weren't uploaded to ISIS somewhere, only to resurface in recruiting videos. That would be absolutely horrible.

BTW, every Muslim terrorist doesn't run into a fight screaming "Allah Akbar".

Kind of like every muslim that shoots someone isn't necessarily a terrorist.

You mean not every muslim that shoots someone is a terrorist.

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a what?

 

[[icon]]

Regarding gun control issues:

Two rifles legally purchased by a guy who was not a felon and who was not on any mental health watchlist. I believe in increasing background checks, but it's pretty clear it would have had NO effect on this shooting.

There then remains the question of whether or not to make all assault rifles illegal. Putting aside for the moment the impractibility of such a proposal, couldn't the couple have done just as much damage with two semi-automatic pistols? I don't know, but I suspect that is the case. AK-47s look scarier, but that in itself doesn't seem like a good rationale for banning them.

The magazine for the AKs hold more. So more bullets before loading a new magazine.

I have several rifles that shoot .223. I do have magazines which hold up to 40 rounds. Those are more prone to jamming than 10, 15, 20 and 30 round magazines, but true you can get very large capacity magazines for AR's and AK's. On the other hand I have Glocks that have 18 round magazines. I can hold and fire two of those at the same time, one hand each in a crowded room scenario. Not an appreciable difference and probably more reliable in terms of jamming.

With 3D printers the potential for fairly large handgun magazines is out there, as is the possibility of producing or converting guns to rather efficient machine pistols.

I have a 33rd mag for my subcompact glock 26 (not my photo) that I have tried to get to jam by firing as fast as possible at a range, but it hasn't yet. They're $15 and readily available...$11 if you want to buy 5 of them and get the full "spree-shooter kit".

Regarding the effect of limiting magazine size... if someone watches a training video or two on youtube then practiced for a few days, pistol magazines can be swapped with little to no interruption in fire. Strap on a magazine vest/belt and you could easily put hundred(s) of rounds downrange in minutes if you were so inclined.

Body armor with Level IV certified protection (against 30cal armor-piercing rounds) front and back will run you $450 or so. If you just want protection against standard pistol and AK rounds then Level III vests can be had for $200. There are better and worse options, but for reference.... it's easy to get.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looks like a half & half to me. He felt like an outsider at work. Maybe got into a bunch of spats there. Things weren't going well. At the same time all these attacks happening around the world. Maybe started watching the terror recruitment videos online. Felt like could finally be a part of something rather than be excluded. Found a kindred spirit who stoked the idea of an attack. One final straw and decides now is the time. Shoots up his office in the name of terrorism. If he didn't look like he did, have the name he did or believe in the religion he did, this would "just" be a mass, workplace shooting.

I think the reason you don't want to publicly label stuff like this "islamic terrorism" is because of people precisely like these who carried out the attack. People who may be on the fence. People feeling they are not part of society. You start framing it an us vs. them issue and sooner than later there are going to be a lot more of "them". Call it mass murder. We don't need to (in a few people's eyes) glorify it.

It would help if more folks would zero in on this. How does the 4 branches of our military recruit? By making young men feel they will be part of a special team or group of folks they can fit in with. Everything in this country revolves around fitting in. Try living without TV, internet, cell phones and see how long you can live a normal life.

We persecute the folks in the Middle East and perhaps with very good reason but we ask them to hit an American benchmark that they don't have in their country. These young folks are born into a World we would not want for our children.

Willie usually has a good way of explaining things in easy to grasp words and ideas, none of this mumbo jumbo.

 

[shader]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

 

[[icon]]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

Do you realize what percentage of weapons are semi-auto? Do you understand the difference between auto and semi-auto? You want everyone to be down to bolt-action rifles and revolvers?

What percentage of the current hundreds of millions of guns do you expect to get off the streets? Do you project a gun war to be more or less successful than the drug war?

 

[jonessed]

Nothing to see here. This horrible act of violence was simply a spontaneous response to the recent release of Krampus.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

Do you realize what percentage of weapons are semi-auto? Do you understand the difference between auto and semi-auto? You want everyone to be down to bolt-action rifles and revolvers?

Muzzle-loaders IMO. That ought to cut down on a lot of bull####.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

Do you realize what percentage of weapons are semi-auto? Do you understand the difference between auto and semi-auto? You want everyone to be down to bolt-action rifles and revolvers?

What percentage of the current hundreds of millions of guns do you expect to get off the streets? Do you project a gun war to be more or less successful than the drug war?

Please learn him some shotgun knowledge then then add in the difference between shot and slugs.

 

[timschochet]

Looks like a half & half to me. He felt like an outsider at work. Maybe got into a bunch of spats there. Things weren't going well. At the same time all these attacks happening around the world. Maybe started watching the terror recruitment videos online. Felt like could finally be a part of something rather than be excluded. Found a kindred spirit who stoked the idea of an attack. One final straw and decides now is the time. Shoots up his office in the name of terrorism. If he didn't look like he did, have the name he did or believe in the religion he did, this would "just" be a mass, workplace shooting.

I think the reason you don't want to publicly label stuff like this "islamic terrorism" is because of people precisely like these who carried out the attack. People who may be on the fence. People feeling they are not part of society. You start framing it an us vs. them issue and sooner than later there are going to be a lot more of "them". Call it mass murder. We don't need to (in a few people's eyes) glorify it.

Lots of good logic here except...The wife. That's the problem with a lot of these theories: the wife doesn't fit. She doesn't fit unless it was a completely pre planned attack.

 

[jonessed]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

Automatic weapons are outlawed. Semi-automatic weapons are not outlawed for obvious reasons.

 

[Courtjester]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

The average Joe gun owner can't buy automatic weapons so not sure the point here.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Nothing to see here. This horrible act of violence was simply a spontaneous response to the recent release of Krampus.

Hey Krampus is getting great reviews!

 

[Doug B]

ISIS might not recruit a lot from America but they can and will inspire idiots misguided here into doing things like we saw yesterday.

Agree a lot here. ISIS outside of Syria is pretty decentralized. Inspiration and "conversion**" (online efforts work just fine) are much more their game than moving pre-placed international chess pieces around via a formal chain of command.

** not conversion to Islam, but conversion to ISIS's ideals.

 

[jonessed]

Looks like a half & half to me. He felt like an outsider at work. Maybe got into a bunch of spats there. Things weren't going well. At the same time all these attacks happening around the world. Maybe started watching the terror recruitment videos online. Felt like could finally be a part of something rather than be excluded. Found a kindred spirit who stoked the idea of an attack. One final straw and decides now is the time. Shoots up his office in the name of terrorism. If he didn't look like he did, have the name he did or believe in the religion he did, this would "just" be a mass, workplace shooting.

I think the reason you don't want to publicly label stuff like this "islamic terrorism" is because of people precisely like these who carried out the attack. People who may be on the fence. People feeling they are not part of society. You start framing it an us vs. them issue and sooner than later there are going to be a lot more of "them". Call it mass murder. We don't need to (in a few people's eyes) glorify it.

Lots of good logic here except...The wife. That's the problem with a lot of these theories: the wife doesn't fit. She doesn't fit unless it was a completely pre planned attack.

They had bulletproof vests and were making IEDs. They were obviously planning something big. No point in even debating that anymore.

It was a planned terrorist attack by Islamists. We don't know if they planned it themselves or if they were part of a terrorist cell, but it is what it is either way.

 

[CBusAlex]

However the evidence has strongly suggested that its some sort of terror plot since about 5pm yesterday.

Starting to get the feeling that Sayd Farook's apparent hot-headedness MIGHT have saved lives here.

The activities of that terror cell that we know of so far ... IMHO they weren't planning to shoot up a conference room and a medical lobby. All those pipe bombs and IEDs being built by the other guys in the cell (at the house) -- where were those things headed? A mall? Movie theater? Sporting event? Some other soft target? Farook appears to have been totally willing to compromise his cell to make a personal point -- to the possible detriment of a potentially deadlier mission for the overall cell.

The lesson is clear: Always mock the prophet. It could save lives.

 

[timschochet]

Basic steps toward gun safety, is what Obama is saying. I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Why can't automatic and semi automatic weapons be outlawed? Do people need automatic weapons to kill deer?

Do you realize what percentage of weapons are semi-auto? Do you understand the difference between auto and semi-auto? You want everyone to be down to bolt-action rifles and revolvers?

What percentage of the current hundreds of millions of guns do you expect to get off the streets? Do you project a gun war to be more or less successful than the drug war?

Yep. I am not opposed to banning certain type of guns in principle but the reality is it will never work. I don't see how one can argue with your logic here.

Unless- are there any statistics about the previous assault rifle ban that demonstrates any positive results? I honestly don't know.

 

[timschochet]

Looks like a half & half to me. He felt like an outsider at work. Maybe got into a bunch of spats there. Things weren't going well. At the same time all these attacks happening around the world. Maybe started watching the terror recruitment videos online. Felt like could finally be a part of something rather than be excluded. Found a kindred spirit who stoked the idea of an attack. One final straw and decides now is the time. Shoots up his office in the name of terrorism. If he didn't look like he did, have the name he did or believe in the religion he did, this would "just" be a mass, workplace shooting.

I think the reason you don't want to publicly label stuff like this "islamic terrorism" is because of people precisely like these who carried out the attack. People who may be on the fence. People feeling they are not part of society. You start framing it an us vs. them issue and sooner than later there are going to be a lot more of "them". Call it mass murder. We don't need to (in a few people's eyes) glorify it.

Lots of good logic here except...The wife. That's the problem with a lot of these theories: the wife doesn't fit. She doesn't fit unless it was a completely pre planned attack.

They had bulletproof vests and were making IEDs. They were obviously planning something big. No point in even debating that anymore.It was a planned terrorist attack by Islamists. We don't know if they planned it themselves or if they were part of a terrorist cell, but it is what it is either way.

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

 

[beer 30]

However the evidence has strongly suggested that its some sort of terror plot since about 5pm yesterday.

Starting to get the feeling that Sayd Farook's apparent hot-headedness MIGHT have saved lives here.

The activities of that terror cell that we know of so far ... IMHO they weren't planning to shoot up a conference room and a medical lobby. All those pipe bombs and IEDs being built by the other guys in the cell (at the house) -- where were those things headed? A mall? Movie theater? Sporting event? Some other soft target? Farook appears to have been totally willing to compromise his cell to make a personal point -- to the possible detriment of a potentially deadlier mission for the overall cell.

I think you may be on to something here. good post

Agree, getting the same feeling.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

Looks like a half & half to me. He felt like an outsider at work. Maybe got into a bunch of spats there. Things weren't going well. At the same time all these attacks happening around the world. Maybe started watching the terror recruitment videos online. Felt like could finally be a part of something rather than be excluded. Found a kindred spirit who stoked the idea of an attack. One final straw and decides now is the time. Shoots up his office in the name of terrorism. If he didn't look like he did, have the name he did or believe in the religion he did, this would "just" be a mass, workplace shooting.

I think the reason you don't want to publicly label stuff like this "islamic terrorism" is because of people precisely like these who carried out the attack. People who may be on the fence. People feeling they are not part of society. You start framing it an us vs. them issue and sooner than later there are going to be a lot more of "them". Call it mass murder. We don't need to (in a few people's eyes) glorify it.

Lots of good logic here except...The wife. That's the problem with a lot of these theories: the wife doesn't fit. She doesn't fit unless it was a completely pre planned attack.

They had bulletproof vests and were making IEDs. They were obviously planning something big. No point in even debating that anymore.It was a planned terrorist attack by Islamists. We don't know if they planned it themselves or if they were part of a terrorist cell, but it is what it is either way.

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

I was 80% the second the news broke.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Nothing to see here. This horrible act of violence was simply a spontaneous response to the recent release of Krampus.

Who would blame a movie as the culprit for an obvious terrorist act?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

It's possible he was just a gun collector, wore combat gear instead of business casual, and made IED's as a hobby.

 

[timschochet]

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

It's possible he was just a gun collector, wore combat gear instead of business casual, and made IED's as a hobby.

Ill bet you this describes some FBGers we know...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Don't most folks think if these 2 were on the phone with the actual ISIS group overseas that our government would know about it? I would like to think we have at least that limited protection layer that if someone was actually dumb enough to communicate over cell phones that we would intercept that.

So it's likely they did not act in direct connection with ISIS. But what is more disturbing is that they were probably inspired to act by a lot of what they saw on TV and internet media outlets as of late. I don't think this is proof of ISIS cells but the lone wolf analogy is probably better.

 

[dickey moe]

Nothing to see here. This horrible act of violence was simply a spontaneous response to the recent release of Krampus.

Who would blame a movie as the culprit for an obvious terrorist act?

:sigh:

 

[ffldrew]

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

It's possible he was just a gun collector, wore combat gear instead of business casual, and made IED's as a hobby.

Lots and lots of people do just that - especially down here where I live now.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Nothing to see here. This horrible act of violence was simply a spontaneous response to the recent release of Krampus.

Who would blame a movie as the culprit for an obvious terrorist act?

:sigh:

:147:

 

[jonessed]

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

It's possible he was just a gun collector, wore combat gear instead of business casual, and made IED's as a hobby.

Lots and lots of people do just that - especially down here where I live now.

If they are making bombs designed to kill people you should probably report them to the police.

 

[Slapdash]

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

It's possible he was just a gun collector, wore combat gear instead of business casual, and made IED's as a hobby.

Ill bet you this describes some FBGers we know...

Shut up tim

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Nothing to see here. This horrible act of violence was simply a spontaneous response to the recent release of Krampus.

Who would blame a movie as the culprit for an obvious terrorist act?

:sigh:

 

[ffldrew]

Im not 100% convinced on the Islamist part. About 80% at this point. But there's still a chance it wasn't about that.

It's possible he was just a gun collector, wore combat gear instead of business casual, and made IED's as a hobby.

Lots and lots of people do just that - especially down here where I live now.

If they are making bombs designed to kill people you should probably report them to the police.

Use them to blow up #### - ever watch Duck Dynasty. A bunch of good ole boys.....