Wright would have been the #1 corner in the draft if it wasn't for the character things. After hearing what happened, I'm thinking we made a killer trade.wtf is going on in Berea?Browns Get 2nd round, No. 53: Eric Wright, DB, UNLV6th round, No. 195 Cowboys Get 2nd round, No. 674th round, No. 1036th round, No. 178![]()
Really Phil Savage had what turned out to be strong drafts in 2005 and 2006. If Savage likes Wright, I like Wright.Wright would have been the #1 corner in the draft if it wasn't for the character things. After hearing what happened, I'm thinking we made a killer trade.wtf is going on in Berea?Browns Get 2nd round, No. 53: Eric Wright, DB, UNLV6th round, No. 195 Cowboys Get 2nd round, No. 674th round, No. 1036th round, No. 178![]()
I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.
Why? Timmons and Woodley seem like solid 1-2 picks to me.I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
if the right player was there, i'd give up all day 2 picks. i don't think that player is still around though.so now i'm wondering what they are going to offer Dallas to get back into the 3rd round.![]()
I like the Timmons pick, but Woodley IMO does not have the quick burst to be an edge rusher and he is too slow and not fluid enough in his hips to be an OLB. Career backup TE in 3rd while ignoring needs such as OL.Why? Timmons and Woodley seem like solid 1-2 picks to me.I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
I agree about everything except Thomas Irish. I think he's Ogden. Maybe not Pace but Ogden. Seeing as the team we want to create doesn't need a Peyton Manning, I think that Quinn is more QB than we need. He'll be expected not to lose games. Wright by far is the best choice we made though. He is a shut down corner we got for peanuts. After reading the stuff on the character issues, I'm not even sure we have to worry about this guy's character. Time will tell, but I couldn't plan a better draft.I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
If you have a chance, post please. If not, no biggie.All I've heard is the charges were eventually dropped and USC still suspended him, which led to his transfer, and that he's been fine at UNLV.I agree about everything except Thomas Irish. I think he's Ogden. Maybe not Pace but Ogden. Seeing as the team we want to create doesn't need a Peyton Manning, I think that Quinn is more QB than we need. He'll be expected not to lose games. Wright by far is the best choice we made though. He is a shut down corner we got for peanuts. After reading the stuff on the character issues, I'm not even sure we have to worry about this guy's character. Time will tell, but I couldn't plan a better draft.I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
I like the Timmons pick alot. Didn't know they picked their 3rd. That doesn't sound like anything good.I like the Timmons pick, but Woodley IMO does not have the quick burst to be an edge rusher and he is too slow and not fluid enough in his hips to be an OLB. Career backup TE in 3rd while ignoring needs such as OL.Why? Timmons and Woodley seem like solid 1-2 picks to me.I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
I don't have links but from what I've read the rape thing may have been a jealous GF that he dumped. The exctasy pills were definately not his. They were found in a common area in multi room suite he was sharing with other guys. One of those guys was arrested for dealing the same thing before. I'm not saying he's a boy scout, but he may not be the devil either. I read the statements that he made and they seemed genuine.Do a google search if you want to find out more.If you have a chance, post please. If not, no biggie.All I've heard is the charges were eventually dropped and USC still suspended him, which led to his transfer, and that he's been fine at UNLV.I agree about everything except Thomas Irish. I think he's Ogden. Maybe not Pace but Ogden. Seeing as the team we want to create doesn't need a Peyton Manning, I think that Quinn is more QB than we need. He'll be expected not to lose games. Wright by far is the best choice we made though. He is a shut down corner we got for peanuts. After reading the stuff on the character issues, I'm not even sure we have to worry about this guy's character. Time will tell, but I couldn't plan a better draft.I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
If all of that is true.....chris1969 said:Since we are having a good day, I thought I'd post this as well...
This guy is pretty credible over at the OBR.
Figured I'd share it. Could things possibly get any better if this were true?
Quote:
Guys I got some information from my source (player agent and close personal friend of mine):
--He said we got the best OL, QB and CB in the draft.
--He has a friend on the USC staff, and represents a DB with UNLV and said that there was no case against Wright, he transferred to avoid the suspension and has kept his nose clean ever since.
--He said watching the DBs in the combine, that Wright and Landry were CLEARLY the best DBs of the bunch. Wright had the most fluid hips, and is an elite talent.
--He said that all three players the Browns drafted have pro-bowl potential by year 3 or 4.
--He said that it was a coup that the Browns were able to pull off getting three elite talents at three marquee positions; LT, QB and CB.
--Lastly, and most importantly, he said that LeCharles Bentley was in Columbus working out at Sports Connection, and he told people there that he will be back to partake in the team's mini-camp. Maybe not in May, but in June.
Looking over him, one of the guys asked is he had lost weight. He said no, that he is in the best shape of his life. He currently weighs 326#, he's as strong as ever, and his patella tendon is perfectly fine. It was the staph infection that set him back.
Bentley said, "if I never play again that's fine, but I will play this season".
This is from a credible source, a player agent who I used to work with, and who is currently looking to phase into FO work at some point down the road.
This is all very, very exciting news.
http://www.dawgbones.com/phBB/viewtopic.php?t=5530
When the Steelers transition into the 4-3 Woodley will have a nice home. Heath Miller is not a blocking TE, so we went out and got one. I really like what the steelers did day 1.Sadly though yins guys had the best day 1 imo. PROPS to the mistake by the lake.Irish said:I like the Timmons pick, but Woodley IMO does not have the quick burst to be an edge rusher and he is too slow and not fluid enough in his hips to be an OLB. Career backup TE in 3rd while ignoring needs such as OL.Bobcat10 said:Why? Timmons and Woodley seem like solid 1-2 picks to me.Irish said:I don't think that Thomas is a stud LT in the mold of Pace, Ogden or Jones, but he will be a solid LT for 10 yrs. I don't think that Brady Quinn will ever be a Pro Bowl qb, but I think he will be a solid qb and a huge upgrade over Frye. Their best pick so far is the cb Wright. He could end up the steal of the entire draft. I would have to give Savage and the Browns an A for their draft while my Steelers would get a D grade. This has not been a good day for me.chris1969 said:This has to be the best Browns draft I have ever seen.![]()
me too....Bobcat10 said:I'm thinking right now Savage has had a masterful draft.
Did they fire Romeo?wadegarrett said:Just got back from out of town and still don't have much time right now. Just wanted to chime in with...![]()
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This draft was an act of desperation by Romeo and Savage. We take the sure fire thing in Thomas, which was smart. We trade into the second to get a talented player that could immediately start if he can keep his head on straight. Then, we trade our first next year to get a second year. These two know its win now, or they (at least Crenell) is gone. If they are gone, they have no worry about that first round pick next year, so it was a must do trade by them.This desperation being the case, it may not turn out to be bad. My only problem, I think they are giving up on Frye way to early. The guy is a darn good QB.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
it does seem a bit desperate, but in the least they are gambling.i dunno, i think i've given up on Frye. i think he's a pretty good backup NFL QB, and nothing more.This draft was an act of desperation by Romeo and Savage. We take the sure fire thing in Thomas, which was smart. We trade into the second to get a talented player that could immediately start if he can keep his head on straight. Then, we trade our first next year to get a second year. These two know its win now, or they (at least Crenell) is gone. If they are gone, they have no worry about that first round pick next year, so it was a must do trade by them.This desperation being the case, it may not turn out to be bad. My only problem, I think they are giving up on Frye way to early. The guy is a darn good QB.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
I think Savage drafted quality players in year 1 with Edwards and Pool. I think he drafted quality players in year 2 with Wimbley, Jackson, and Williams. His drafts have been very strong. He has not had a high pick bust yet, and if Edwards busts, its because of the torn ACL which you obviously can't blame Savage for. So I trust him with these high picks.My question is with the free agent moves. Faine was a mistake. Shaffer got WAY too much money for what he turned out to be. The guards Savage brought in at first were trash. Baxter was a mistake.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
Saying Baxter was a mistake is like saying Bentley was a mistake. Savage can't prevent injuries. And I don't think Baxter was overpaid- he's a great corner when healthy. If he didn't get injured no way you would be making that complaint. Faine on the other hand never was that good in the first place in addition to being consistently injured. I have no problem with that move either.If you're complaining about Shaffer (which I agree with, he was overpaid, but it was either overpay him or Shelton)... the Browns may be ready to do something about it:My question is with the free agent moves. Faine was a mistake. Shaffer got WAY too much money for what he turned out to be. The guards Savage brought in at first were trash. Baxter was a mistake.
If this goes through we better get some serious compensation.The Cleveland Browns and New York Giants have reportedly been in contact about a potential trade of LT Kevin Shaffer to the Giants, according to Ken Palmer of TheGiantsInsider at Scout.com. The Giants have confirmed that there have been discussions, according to Palmer.
While common thinking in the wake of the Browns decision to draft Wisconsin LT Joe Thomas has been that Shaffer would switch to right tackle, it's worth noting that the tackle hasn't spent time at the position in the NFL. It's often suggested that Shaffer was in a right tackle role with the Falcons because he didn't protect the left-handed Michael Vick's blind side, but Shaffer's ability to make the position switch is still an unknown.
Trading Shaffer would mean that there are still open questions about the Browns right tackle position, since Ryan Tucker's season-long available would still have to considered questionable. Reserve tackle Kelly Butler is generally not considered to be an NFL-caliber starting right tackle. At this point, there have been no reports recieved by the OBR regarding players or compensation the Browns might request in exchange.
Trading Shaffer would also cause over $7.5 million to accelerate to the Browns 2007 salary cap. Shaffer signed a seven-year contract with the Browns in 2006 with an estimated $9 million in bonuses. If those reports are accurate, six years of the pro-rated bonus would have to be absorbed this year.
The Browns have not been reached for comment at this hour.
No I really don't believe in paying big money to a DB when your defensive line isn't very good.Saying Baxter was a mistake is like saying Bentley was a mistake. Savage can't prevent injuries. And I don't think Baxter was overpaid- he's a great corner when healthy. If he didn't get injured no way you would be making that complaint. Faine on the other hand never was that good in the first place in addition to being consistently injured. I have no problem with that move either.My question is with the free agent moves. Faine was a mistake. Shaffer got WAY too much money for what he turned out to be. The guards Savage brought in at first were trash. Baxter was a mistake.
If you remember, at the time, the choice was to pay Henry a lot more. I think we made the right choice.No I really don't believe in paying big money to a DB when your defensive line isn't very good.Saying Baxter was a mistake is like saying Bentley was a mistake. Savage can't prevent injuries. And I don't think Baxter was overpaid- he's a great corner when healthy. If he didn't get injured no way you would be making that complaint. Faine on the other hand never was that good in the first place in addition to being consistently injured. I have no problem with that move either.My question is with the free agent moves. Faine was a mistake. Shaffer got WAY too much money for what he turned out to be. The guards Savage brought in at first were trash. Baxter was a mistake.
By that logic, I guess Savage overpaid Braylon last year with his fat contract. Should have cut him and put the $ in the line!No I really don't believe in paying big money to a DB when your defensive line isn't very good.Saying Baxter was a mistake is like saying Bentley was a mistake. Savage can't prevent injuries. And I don't think Baxter was overpaid- he's a great corner when healthy. If he didn't get injured no way you would be making that complaint. Faine on the other hand never was that good in the first place in addition to being consistently injured. I have no problem with that move either.My question is with the free agent moves. Faine was a mistake. Shaffer got WAY too much money for what he turned out to be. The guards Savage brought in at first were trash. Baxter was a mistake.
I agree that Baxter was a nice signing at the time. Bad luck there. Shaffer is a serviceable player, the Browns just paid too much for him.By that logic, I guess Savage overpaid Braylon last year with his fat contract. Should have cut him and put the $ in the line!No I really don't believe in paying big money to a DB when your defensive line isn't very good.Saying Baxter was a mistake is like saying Bentley was a mistake. Savage can't prevent injuries. And I don't think Baxter was overpaid- he's a great corner when healthy. If he didn't get injured no way you would be making that complaint. Faine on the other hand never was that good in the first place in addition to being consistently injured. I have no problem with that move either.My question is with the free agent moves. Faine was a mistake. Shaffer got WAY too much money for what he turned out to be. The guards Savage brought in at first were trash. Baxter was a mistake.I know you are adamant about putting every resource this team has into the lines... I am very, VERY curious as to what your reaction will be at the end of this year if our extraordinarily expensive O-Line doesn't perform as advertised. Perhaps your solution will be to put more $ into it? Sometimes (as Kevin Shaffer has proven) that doesn't always work. At least Baxter was a very good player.
LinkDraft dreams come true
How Browns nabbed Quinn; more draft news, notes
Exactly one week before the draft, Cleveland general manager Phil Savage decided not to go to the office. Rather, he stayed home with his wife and sat in his home office for part of the day, watching tape of prospects he might draft. At one point, he found himself daydreaming, wondering if there would be any chance he could come out of the draft with both Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn. I wonder what it would cost to do that? If that would ever happen, that would really get me excited.
"Then you come back to reality,'' Savage said late Saturday night, after Day 1 of the draft. "That's not going to happen.''
This is the story of how it did.
***
Savage has the final say in the Cleveland draft room, and he had decided in mid-April that Thomas, the Wisconsin tackle, was his guy. He felt fairly certain Thomas would be available when Cleveland was to pick at No. 3, because he figured, like most everyone else, that LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell and Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson would go 1-2 to Oakland and Detroit, or whoever traded into their spots.
Savage liked Quinn too, but Thomas was the kind of offensive-line difference-maker the Browns hadn't had since their reincarnation, in 1999. "Is Joe Thomas an impact player?'' Savage said. "Yes, because he'll let our skill players make plays. Without taking him, a quarterback would have the [same] problems our quarterbacks had last year, when we had protection problems. Same thing with our running game. Our staff was sold on Joe Thomas, but not as sold on Brady Quinn, at three.''
Savage wouldn't say exactly where Quinn was on the Browns' board, but from our discussion, I think he had him as the fifth- or sixth-best player. That's why it caught his attention when Quinn was still around after the ninth pick. "I was walking down the hall in our office during the first round,'' he said, "and I see Ted Ginn Jr., go to Miami. That was my first 'wow' of the day. Then I started to think maybe we should look into trying to get a pick to get Brady.''
He got on the phone. Called Houston, which owned the 10th pick, Buffalo at 12, St. Louis at 13, Carolina at 14. No, no, no, no. When Savage was on the phone with the Rams, Browns owner Randy Lerner joked, "Trade me to the Rams if you can get Quinn. They'll throw in [owner] Georgia Frontiere.''
Savage got a nibble from Green Bay at 16. Cleveland offered its first-round pick in 2008, and offered to flip picks with the Packers in rounds two, three and four. "I thought it was going to work,'' Savage said. "But they thought about it, called back and said no.''
Jacksonville at 17, no. Right about then, Savage got wind of Baltimore also trying to deal up in the round to get Quinn. And he feared Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome would make a deal with one of his best buddies, Jags GM James Harris. But Harris had other ideas, dealing down four spots with Denver and picking up third- and sixth-round picks.
Savage didn't try Cincinnati at 18. "You think they'd ever trade with us?'' he said, chuckling. "I don't think so.'' Tennessee and the Giants, at 19 and 20, respectively, both said no. Next up was Jacksonville, which planned to make its new pick at 21. Phone call. Another no.
Desperate minutes now. Savage knew Kansas City might be a logical team to just sit there at 23 to take Quinn. So the only team left was Dallas, at 22.
"I really didn't know Jerry Jones,'' Savage said. "We'd never done anything with the Cowboys. I'd seen him at league meetings, and I had a lot of respect for him, but there was no prior experience there.''
Savage offered Jones second- and third-round picks. Jones said no. End of call. Jones called back and asked for Cleveland's first-rounder in 2008, and Savage said he'd consider doing it -- but without adding anything else this year. Jones said no; he had to have a high pick this year. End of call.
"Now [the Cowboys] were on the clock, and I figured, 'This is a guy we really want,''' said Savage. "We've got to make our best offer now.''
Sort of. With the minutes ticking by, Savage offered next year's one and this year's three to Dallas. Nope, said Jones. It'll take next year's one and this year's two. Savage said he'd call right back.
Meanwhile, Jones told the Cowboys man at the draft in New York to write down the name of Purdue defensive end Anthony Spencer on a card and get it ready to turn in. "We had four guys very close in value right there,'' Jones said. [One other candidate there, I learned, was LSU wideout Dwayne Bowe.] "And I was determined that we would get one of them, unless we could get that Cleveland pick next year.''
With two minutes left in the period, Savage called. "We'll do it,'' he said. "Our two this year and next year's one.''
"Deal,'' Jones said.
Savage hung up the phone. There were about 30 people -- coaches, scouts, owner's family and friends -- in the Cleveland draft room, and when Savage said, "We got him!'' the place exploded. One of my HBO buddies, Jason Cohen, a Browns freak, instant-texted me thusly: "Best day of Browns FB in 10 years!''
"It was the biggest roar heard in these offices in some time, I can tell you that,'' Savage said.
Later, Jones said: "We thought Kansas City was going to take [Quinn] right after us. Baltimore was trying to trade up with us, too. Ozzie [Newsome] told us he'd take Quinn. And we were absolutely amazed he was still there. I guess it just shows you what we think of Tony Romo. We could have gotten tremendous value and taken Quinn right there.
"But I'll tell you something," Jones added. "There was a little bit of a hollow feeling in our draft room, because now we had traded back so far, to Cleveland's pick in the second round, that we thought there was no way we'd have a chance at one of the four players we wanted.''
Jones got on the phone, calling every team after Kansas City. He took a stab at offering Philly owner Jeff Lurie, sitting at 26, the pick acquired from Cleveland (36th overall) plus third- and sixth-round picks. Lurie came back and said, "Give us your third and fifth and it's a deal.'' There was Spencer still sitting there. Jones had to do it.
The card Dallas intended to turn in at 22 was turned in at 26 ... and the Cowboys, for their trouble, got Cleveland's first-round pick in 2008 -- maybe a pick in the top six or eight or 10.
Amazing.
"That's when you feel the excitement of the draft,'' said Jones, "and you feel the exercise was worth it, even though when you started, you really had no idea any of this was possible. We took the risk, lost our player, gained a one next year, then got our player back and kept the extra one. It was pretty exhilarating. But for Cleveland, I can totally understand why they did it. And I would have done the same thing if I was in their shoes. When you don't have a quarterback, no price is too high to pay for one.''
Right after making the deal, Savage ducked into a studio at the Browns headquarters and did an interview with ESPN. The moment he finished, his cell phone vibrated. It was one of his hometown buddies from Mobile, Ala., calling -- JaMarcus Russell, who had attended Savage's free football camp while in high school.
"Hey, big guy!'' Russell said. "You looked good on TV just now.''
"You looked great on TV yourself,'' Savage said. "Hey, you think we should start charging for that football camp now?''
"No way,'' said Russell. "You've got to keep it free.''
Savage scored major points in the draft. He had the persistence to work feverishly to go get what he wanted, and this was a classic trade that helps both teams. The Browns did trade their first pick in 2008, true; but they will get the benefit of paying their potential quarterback of the future much less than they would have had to pay, if such a player had been drafted in the top five. And they get to work that quarterback into the system for a year, relatively pressure-free -- although the fans will want to see him play in September. The team, however, won't put that kind of pressure on Quinn to learn the offense and produce right away.
More than that, Savage showed some decency on draft weekend, when lying and deception is often the norm. That's why I admire him more today than I did Friday; and I had a world of admiration for him before the draft, believe me.
"On Friday,'' he said, "I called [Quinn's agent] Tom Condon. I'd heard some stuff in the press that he might be negotiating with the Raiders for Brady to be picked at number one. And I had so much respect for Brady through this process. He's a great kid, and he's worked so hard, and he's done everything through the draft process exactly the right way. I told Tom I didn't know if the Raiders were going to take Brady or not, but I wanted to let him know that we'd decided not to take him at number three; so if he was talking to the Raiders, he'd know he didn't have us to fall back on.
"I'd heard Brady talk about having two dreams -- being the No. 1 pick, or playing for the Browns," Savage said. "And I didn't want to see his heart broken twice. We weren't going to take him, so I wanted Tom to be able to do whatever he could to get a deal done with Oakland, if that's what was happening.''
That's class right there.
Over this draft weekend and the week's leading up to it, when listening to the national analysis of what the Browns are looking to do in the draft, I heard numerous references to Crennel and Savage being on the hot seat and that Savage must draft players to win now because there may not be a next year for him. That may be the case with Romeo, but I haven't seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that Savage is on the hot seat. I believe Savage is very much secure in his position and this draft (Quinn trade up specifically) was by no means an act of desperation. I feel Savage did what he feels is in the best interest of the franchise going forward. We'll see if it pays out in the end, but taking Quinn is in no way an act of desperation to win now. The same national analysists that are saying Savage is on the hot seat are the same guys that had the Browns taking Quinn at 3.This draft was an act of desperation by Romeo and Savage. We take the sure fire thing in Thomas, which was smart. We trade into the second to get a talented player that could immediately start if he can keep his head on straight. Then, we trade our first next year to get a second year. These two know its win now, or they (at least Crenell) is gone. If they are gone, they have no worry about that first round pick next year, so it was a must do trade by them.This desperation being the case, it may not turn out to be bad. My only problem, I think they are giving up on Frye way to early. The guy is a darn good QB.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
I totally agree here. These were not desparation moves by a GM on the hot seat. I can't even believe I'm reading things like that. The Quinn move was getting a player you had rated in the top 5, and probably would have been our pick if TB won the coin flip, at #22. That's not desparation, that's a steal. As far as Wright goes, I guarantee the Browns were over-prepared for this exact situation. Everyone knew Wright was going to be flagged by many teams, and if he fell, we'd be confident to make a move if he checked out well to the Browns. Background checks by Savage, Rees, others, and maybe even Merletti (you never know with his history) were probably very extensive. The last thing Savage needs is a black eye from this draft, so you'd have to think they covered all the bases. If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.Over this draft weekend and the week's leading up to it, when listening to the national analysis of what the Browns are looking to do in the draft, I heard numerous references to Crennel and Savage being on the hot seat and that Savage must draft players to win now because there may not be a next year for him. That may be the case with Romeo, but I haven't seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that Savage is on the hot seat. I believe Savage is very much secure in his position and this draft (Quinn trade up specifically) was by no means an act of desperation. I feel Savage did what he feels is in the best interest of the franchise going forward. We'll see if it pays out in the end, but taking Quinn is in no way an act of desperation to win now. The same national analysists that are saying Savage is on the hot seat are the same guys that had the Browns taking Quinn at 3.This draft was an act of desperation by Romeo and Savage. We take the sure fire thing in Thomas, which was smart. We trade into the second to get a talented player that could immediately start if he can keep his head on straight. Then, we trade our first next year to get a second year. These two know its win now, or they (at least Crenell) is gone. If they are gone, they have no worry about that first round pick next year, so it was a must do trade by them.This desperation being the case, it may not turn out to be bad. My only problem, I think they are giving up on Frye way to early. The guy is a darn good QB.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
Bobcat10 said:If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.
maybe, but you don't see teams like the Patriots making a ton of trades to move up.don't get me wrong, i hope everything works out and the Browns just drafted three pro-bowlers, but you have to admit those moves were sort of a gamble.Bobcat10 said:If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.![]()
You're right in that the moves for Quinn and Wright were definitely gambles (I think Thomas is a solid pick). I do think thought that they were calculated, fairly inexpensive gambles though. Additionally, this was the right time to take some chances. Only time will tell if they were worth it!maybe, but you don't see teams like the Patriots making a ton of trades to move up.don't get me wrong, i hope everything works out and the Browns just drafted three pro-bowlers, but you have to admit those moves were sort of a gamble.Bobcat10 said:If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.![]()
Where is the gamble? They gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick for Quinn and Wright. Those are the only two picks they did not get player return on. Next years #1 is Quinn and the 3rd from this year is Wright, plus the 6th round picks were swapped. I don't see anything here that screams we overpaid for anything. We ended up getting an extra 7th later in the draft by allowing somebody to move up in the 6th (I think Dallas again?). They might even save money over the next few seasons.maybe, but you don't see teams like the Patriots making a ton of trades to move up.don't get me wrong, i hope everything works out and the Browns just drafted three pro-bowlers, but you have to admit those moves were sort of a gamble.Bobcat10 said:If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.![]()
the second and forth round picks, especially how high they were, were fairly valuable bargaining chips.Where is the gamble? They gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick for Quinn and Wright. Those are the only two picks they did not get player return on. Next years #1 is Quinn and the 3rd from this year is Wright, plus the 6th round picks were swapped. I don't see anything here that screams we overpaid for anything. We ended up getting an extra 7th later in the draft by allowing somebody to move up in the 6th (I think Dallas again?). They might even save money over the next few seasons.maybe, but you don't see teams like the Patriots making a ton of trades to move up.don't get me wrong, i hope everything works out and the Browns just drafted three pro-bowlers, but you have to admit those moves were sort of a gamble.Bobcat10 said:If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.![]()
You wouldn't be able to trade if the chips were not valuable to the other team. Again, to get 3 players you (the Browns) rate as 1st round talent, let alone two top 5 we know for sure and all top 15 possibly, for what we gave up seems like a good deal to me.Also, the only thing that made the Quinn deal possible was the drafting of Thomas and the Quinn free fall after Miami took Ginn. This was very reactionary by the war room.the second and forth round picks, especially how high they were, were fairly valuable bargaining chips.Where is the gamble? They gave up a 2nd and 4th round pick for Quinn and Wright. Those are the only two picks they did not get player return on. Next years #1 is Quinn and the 3rd from this year is Wright, plus the 6th round picks were swapped. I don't see anything here that screams we overpaid for anything. We ended up getting an extra 7th later in the draft by allowing somebody to move up in the 6th (I think Dallas again?). They might even save money over the next few seasons.maybe, but you don't see teams like the Patriots making a ton of trades to move up.don't get me wrong, i hope everything works out and the Browns just drafted three pro-bowlers, but you have to admit those moves were sort of a gamble.Bobcat10 said:If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.![]()
Exactly what I was thinking yesterday.Also, when making the Quinn deal, they had to consider 2008 with Brohm/Henne leading the pack of QBs. As far as RB goes, we won't have a shot at McFadden/Slaton. I can't think of any other QBs/RBs that will be 1st round material next year, although I'm sure there is a short list somewhere.Haven't been this excited about a Browns draft in a looooooooooooooooong time. Browns Stadium is going to be ROCKIN' for the Steelers game Sept. 9th!Looking waaaaaaay down the road here but something file away for '08: Browns will most likely be looking for a RB...they don't have a No. 1 pick and won't have to pay out 1st round money b/c of the Quinn trade...Michael Turner will be a FA....
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Here is the reason it WAS desperation. I'm not saying it won't work out in the long run, but it is a desperate move. This is a team that needs players, young players. What we did was trade a probable top 10 pick next year to Dallas along with a pick just outside the first round this year (pick 4 in round 2) for the 22nd pick in the draft. Is a top 10 pick next year and dropping only 10 spots in the draft this year a good deal for us? No, according to the pick trade value its a terrible deal. BUT, we got a top 5-10 talent at 22, so that part is good. Is it a good trade? NO. Is it a good pick at 22? YES. You can't have it both ways. As far as compensation for a 22nd pick, it is absoulutely awful, as for the player that was there, its ok.After we lose 1 young player in the next year, we go and trade even more picks to pick up a player that has the potential to be good, but is no way a sure fire thing. Did we put all of our eggs in one basket? YES. Will it pan out, only time will tell. To sum it up, we put all of our eggs into one basket. The future of our franchise rests on these 3 players. If they turn out to be great, it was worth it. If they turn out bad, there is no second chance next year.Bobcat10 said:I totally agree here. These were not desparation moves by a GM on the hot seat. I can't even believe I'm reading things like that. The Quinn move was getting a player you had rated in the top 5, and probably would have been our pick if TB won the coin flip, at #22. That's not desparation, that's a steal. As far as Wright goes, I guarantee the Browns were over-prepared for this exact situation. Everyone knew Wright was going to be flagged by many teams, and if he fell, we'd be confident to make a move if he checked out well to the Browns. Background checks by Savage, Rees, others, and maybe even Merletti (you never know with his history) were probably very extensive. The last thing Savage needs is a black eye from this draft, so you'd have to think they covered all the bases. If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.Over this draft weekend and the week's leading up to it, when listening to the national analysis of what the Browns are looking to do in the draft, I heard numerous references to Crennel and Savage being on the hot seat and that Savage must draft players to win now because there may not be a next year for him. That may be the case with Romeo, but I haven't seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that Savage is on the hot seat. I believe Savage is very much secure in his position and this draft (Quinn trade up specifically) was by no means an act of desperation. I feel Savage did what he feels is in the best interest of the franchise going forward. We'll see if it pays out in the end, but taking Quinn is in no way an act of desperation to win now. The same national analysists that are saying Savage is on the hot seat are the same guys that had the Browns taking Quinn at 3.This draft was an act of desperation by Romeo and Savage. We take the sure fire thing in Thomas, which was smart. We trade into the second to get a talented player that could immediately start if he can keep his head on straight. Then, we trade our first next year to get a second year. These two know its win now, or they (at least Crenell) is gone. If they are gone, they have no worry about that first round pick next year, so it was a must do trade by them.This desperation being the case, it may not turn out to be bad. My only problem, I think they are giving up on Frye way to early. The guy is a darn good QB.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
I totally disagree with your line of thinking. The Browns filled 3 HUGE areas of need. There's no telling yet if the price was too high. Yes, Quinn was the 22nd pick, but he's one of the draft's top 10 players. IMO, there's no desperation there at all.You're also not taking into account the money this saves the Browns down the line.Here is the reason it WAS desperation. I'm not saying it won't work out in the long run, but it is a desperate move.This is a team that needs players, young players. What we did was trade a probable top 10 pick next year to Dallas along with a pick just outside the first round this year (pick 4 in round 2) for the 22nd pick in the draft. Is a top 10 pick next year and dropping only 10 spots in the draft this year a good deal for us? No, according to the pick trade value its a terrible deal. BUT, we got a top 5-10 talent at 22, so that part is good. Is it a good trade? NO. Is it a good pick at 22? YES. You can't have it both ways. As far as compensation for a 22nd pick, it is absoulutely awful, as for the player that was there, its ok.Bobcat10 said:I totally agree here. These were not desparation moves by a GM on the hot seat. I can't even believe I'm reading things like that. The Quinn move was getting a player you had rated in the top 5, and probably would have been our pick if TB won the coin flip, at #22. That's not desparation, that's a steal. As far as Wright goes, I guarantee the Browns were over-prepared for this exact situation. Everyone knew Wright was going to be flagged by many teams, and if he fell, we'd be confident to make a move if he checked out well to the Browns. Background checks by Savage, Rees, others, and maybe even Merletti (you never know with his history) were probably very extensive. The last thing Savage needs is a black eye from this draft, so you'd have to think they covered all the bases.Over this draft weekend and the week's leading up to it, when listening to the national analysis of what the Browns are looking to do in the draft, I heard numerous references to Crennel and Savage being on the hot seat and that Savage must draft players to win now because there may not be a next year for him. That may be the case with Romeo, but I haven't seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that Savage is on the hot seat. I believe Savage is very much secure in his position and this draft (Quinn trade up specifically) was by no means an act of desperation. I feel Savage did what he feels is in the best interest of the franchise going forward. We'll see if it pays out in the end, but taking Quinn is in no way an act of desperation to win now. The same national analysists that are saying Savage is on the hot seat are the same guys that had the Browns taking Quinn at 3.This draft was an act of desperation by Romeo and Savage. We take the sure fire thing in Thomas, which was smart. We trade into the second to get a talented player that could immediately start if he can keep his head on straight. Then, we trade our first next year to get a second year. These two know its win now, or they (at least Crenell) is gone. If they are gone, they have no worry about that first round pick next year, so it was a must do trade by them.This desperation being the case, it may not turn out to be bad. My only problem, I think they are giving up on Frye way to early. The guy is a darn good QB.i want to be clear i'm not trying to out-think Savage. i trust him.
my only concern is that we are giving up quantity for supposed quality. i don't know if this team is in that position to do that yet.
If Wright is a top 10-15 player in the draft on ability, you could argue that we have 3 of the top 15. Doesn't seem like desparation, seems like domination.
After we lose 1 young player in the next year, we go and trade even more picks to pick up a player that has the potential to be good, but is no way a sure fire thing. Did we put all of our eggs in one basket? YES. Will it pan out, only time will tell.
To sum it up, we put all of our eggs into one basket. The future of our franchise rests on these 3 players. If they turn out to be great, it was worth it. If they turn out bad, there is no second chance next year.
Um, free agency down?One more thing of note that scares me to no ends. Jamal Lewis signed a 1 year contract and was probably 1 of the 5 worst starting RB's last year. After this year, we are stuck without a RB. We will not be able to draft our biggest area of need in the first next year, so we will have to settle for a fill in or try to get lucky later in the draft.
Who's to say now that a RB would be available to us next year in the 1st round? If they didn't weigh that into consideration, then that is a major problem, but Savage said they did look at next draft during his presser (but I think he was speaking about QBs). And if they didn't take a QB this year (I personally am not sold on anyone outside of Quinn/Russell), maybe we'd need a QB and a RB next year. Why not get the QB now I guess is my question and worry about RB when we have to? RB is much easier to fill than QB, especially if you have the OL which we think has been upgraded again.One more thing of note that scares me to no ends. Jamal Lewis signed a 1 year contract and was probably 1 of the 5 worst starting RB's last year. After this year, we are stuck without a RB. We will not be able to draft our biggest area of need in the first next year, so we will have to settle for a fill in or try to get lucky later in the draft.
I think it is much easier for a RB to get comfortable in an offense than it is for a QB to get comfortable in an offense. Most people aren't expecting Quinn to have a great year in 2007. He'll be learning, adjusting to the game at a different level, learning how to work with a different coach and different team mates, etc. A RB will come in and not have as many responsibilities. I think we made the right move. Who knows how Lewis will play this year, but he's proven he can run behind a decent line. I agree with the thinking that if Thomas, Quinn and Wright are solid, all the draft moves will be cheered for years.Who's to say now that a RB would be available to us next year in the 1st round? If they didn't weigh that into consideration, then that is a major problem, but Savage said they did look at next draft during his presser (but I think he was speaking about QBs). And if they didn't take a QB this year (I personally am not sold on anyone outside of Quinn/Russell), maybe we'd need a QB and a RB next year. Why not get the QB now I guess is my question and worry about RB when we have to? RB is much easier to fill than QB, especially if you have the OL which we think has been upgraded again.One more thing of note that scares me to no ends. Jamal Lewis signed a 1 year contract and was probably 1 of the 5 worst starting RB's last year. After this year, we are stuck without a RB. We will not be able to draft our biggest area of need in the first next year, so we will have to settle for a fill in or try to get lucky later in the draft.