Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Near as I can tell, Troy Williamson only dropped one pass that hit him squarely in the shoulder pads yesterday. 
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2007 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Andy Dufresne
- Start date
jestertj
Footballguy
So if it didn't matter, why didn't he just sit back and wait longer for someone to come open? He unloaded it because he had to.Just for the sake of argument, what happens if you bring 6 and they score? Either way, you're not happy with it.I understand that you want pressure, whether it takes 4,5,6 or 7 guys. But there's no guarantee that you get there bringing 6.Up by 14 with a good tackling squad I'll rush 4 and take my chances.If McCauley catches the ball on the play before the Muhammad TD like he should have, we close them out and win by 2 scores. Funny how rushing 4 worked on that play.They'd be fine if we didn't sit back in coverage mode when you know dang well that hasn't worked for 2+ years.Andy Dufresne said:I was watching the game with my Dad and told him "watch, they will rush 4 and try to cover".. TD Bears.
Get ball back, 3 and out Bears get ball back and I said "watch again, 4 rush and we get beat" BOOM TD Bears
When you know a team has no choice but to throw you should be rushing no less than 6.. Hell, I'd rush 7, leave a LB in the middle of the field and send the CB's and safety's back 15 yards and back-pedal. There is no excuse at all allowing anyone behind you when you are playing that crappy prevent defense..
snogger
Footballguy
Would I hate that they scored.. of course. But I'd feel better about it as I would feel they were at least trying.So if it didn't matter, why didn't he just sit back and wait longer for someone to come open? He unloaded it because he had to.Just for the sake of argument, what happens if you bring 6 and they score? Either way, you're not happy with it.If McCauley catches the ball on the play before the Muhammad TD like he should have, we close them out and win by 2 scores. Funny how rushing 4 worked on that play.They'd be fine if we didn't sit back in coverage mode when you know dang well that hasn't worked for 2+ years.Andy Dufresne said:
Get ball back, 3 and out Bears get ball back and I said "watch again, 4 rush and we get beat" BOOM TD Bears
When you know a team has no choice but to throw you should be rushing no less than 6..
Hell, I'd rush 7, leave a LB in the middle of the field and send the CB's and safety's back 15 yards and back-pedal.
There is no excuse at all allowing anyone behind you when you are playing that crappy prevent defense..Rushing four didn't cause that. Griese miss read the coverage and route.
My point was simple.
Our Defense cannot cover, they haven't covered all year on 3rd down and long and I don't see that changing any time soon.
With this Defense, the best way to prevent the long TD is to make sure the QB doesn't have time to look deep.
Pressure=hurry=good chance of a turnover.
I don't care who the QB is, if you give him time to take a nap in the pocket as he waits for a WR to get open they will kill you all day long.
pressure, pressure, pressure.
I understand that you want pressure, whether it takes 4,5,6 or 7 guys. But there's no guarantee that you get there bringing 6.
Up by 14 with a good tackling squad I'll rush 4 and take my chances.
Sitting back and playing prevent defense is crap. Add in the fact they scored not once but twice while we played "prevent Defense" and I think you'll understand my
Bring the pressure.. If you get burned
at least you tried.Dropping back in pass coverage and watching the offense eat you up like a mouse on a soft piece of cheese gives me a headache
:top5draftpick: :firechildress:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Don't feel bad. I was thinking the same thing.This team is just a couple guys away from being really good. What if they had a decent right side of the o-line and a better situation at safety.I loved that AD had the big game yesterday, but I'm almost embarassed to say that I was rooting for us to lose
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snogger
Footballguy
I wasn't.. But I'm sure there was one on the field that was... *Cough Childress *CoughDon't feel bad. I was thinking the same thing.I loved that AD had the big game yesterday, but I'm almost embarassed to say that I was rooting for us to lose
snogger
Footballguy
Tough spots to fill from solely from the draft.. but could be done.I am hoping for once they will get into the FA market and look for a veteran WR to help Rice and possibly Williamson take off.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This years draft is nearly barren of decent safety options. If they get a top 10 pick, they have a shot at Kenny Phillips. Then draft someone to play RG/RT and now we're talking.
Mr. Yuk
Footballguy
I would say with just an average QB, WR, and a better coaching staff we would be one of the top NFC teams. We're comin!Don't feel bad. I was thinking the same thing.This team is just a couple guys away from being really good. What if they had a decent right side of the o-line and a better situation at safety.I loved that AD had the big game yesterday, but I'm almost embarassed to say that I was rooting for us to lose
Mr. Yuk
Footballguy
Anyone know who the FA WRs are for next year?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
According to Footballsfuture.com
snogger
Footballguy
Patrick Crayton, UFA, Dallas CowboysBryant Johnson, UFA, Arizona CardinalsI'd be fine with either one of those two added to our mix.
Vikes Fan
Footballguy
Nice to see Dwight Smith play his normal game. Griese goes back to pass and
Hester goes right past Smith. It was like he didn't know they might try and throw deep. He simply drives me crazy most games and I was shocked the team didn't cut him this offseason with as many safeties that they had on the roster.
Vikes Fan
Footballguy
Crayton would be O.K. Berrian would be O.K. too. Johnson does little for me. To be honest, this whole list makes me go
snogger
Footballguy
Could always work out a trade..Oh yea, that would take smarts to pull it off correctly.Crayton would be O.K. Berrian would be O.K. too. Johnson does little for me. To be honest, this whole list makes me go
jestertj
Footballguy
I hear you.I just don't see the problem with playing your base nickel coverage in that situation. I was more upset that the secondary let up effort wise and seemed to think it was over, instead of finishing with the same effort.Would I hate that they scored.. of course. But I'd feel better about it as I would feel they were at least trying.So if it didn't matter, why didn't he just sit back and wait longer for someone to come open? He unloaded it because he had to.Just for the sake of argument, what happens if you bring 6 and they score? Either way, you're not happy with it.:X Rushing four didn't cause that. Griese miss read the coverage and route.If McCauley catches the ball on the play before the Muhammad TD like he should have, we close them out and win by 2 scores. Funny how rushing 4 worked on that play.They'd be fine if we didn't sit back in coverage mode when you know dang well that hasn't worked for 2+ years.
Get ball back, 3 and out Bears get ball back and I said "watch again, 4 rush and we get beat" BOOM TD Bears
When you know a team has no choice but to throw you should be rushing no less than 6..
Hell, I'd rush 7, leave a LB in the middle of the field and send the CB's and safety's back 15 yards and back-pedal.
There is no excuse at all allowing anyone behind you when you are playing that crappy prevent defense..
My point was simple.
Our Defense cannot cover, they haven't covered all year on 3rd down and long and I don't see that changing any time soon.
With this Defense, the best way to prevent the long TD is to make sure the QB doesn't have time to look deep.
Pressure=hurry=good chance of a turnover.
I don't care who the QB is, if you give him time to take a nap in the pocket as he waits for a WR to get open they will kill you all day long.
pressure, pressure, pressure.
I understand that you want pressure, whether it takes 4,5,6 or 7 guys. But there's no guarantee that you get there bringing 6.
Up by 14 with a good tackling squad I'll rush 4 and take my chances.
Sitting back and playing prevent defense is crap. Add in the fact they scored not once but twice while we played "prevent Defense" and I think you'll understand my
Bring the pressure.. If you get burned
Dropping back in pass coverage and watching the offense eat you up like a mouse on a soft piece of cheese gives me a headache
On the Hester TD, your safeties (if anything) weren't deep enough. In a true prevent, you would probably play three deep on the back end and play even further back.
I don't mind blitzing and staying aggressive there, I just can't make the blanket statement to bring the house on every play.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Souhan rules.
Jim Souhan: Coy coach says Peterson is not 'the man' yet
By Jim Souhan, Star Tribune
Most of us watch Adrian Peterson leave tacklers flailing like drowning men and see the best pure running back the Vikings have ever had, the best athlete in the Twin Cities, and the newly crowned NFC offensive player of the week.
That is why we are not equipped to coach an NFL team.
We see the best runner in the NFL. Brad Childress, being an experienced football man, sees the backup running back the Vikings have been missing ever since Rick Fenney last pulled a hamstring.
"Yeah, he's a number two," Childress said Monday. "That's how he is. It doesn't bother him, it doesn't bother me. I don't know -- if it bothers you guys, it will give you an article to write."
It's the best kind of article -- the kind celebrating the flexibility of a coaching mind that can look at the top rusher in the NFL -- and it's not close -- and see the next Allen Rice.
This is a historic week for Peterson. He set a team record for rushing yards with 224 on 20 carries on Sunday in the victory over the Bears. He's the first Vikings rookie to win the NFC offensive player of the week award since Randy Moss thrashed the Cowboys in Dallas in 1998, and this week Peterson, an East Texan, returns to his home state to play for the first time in iconic and drafty Texas Stadium.
We see the No. 1 rusher in the NFL; Childress sees the No. 2 guy on his depth chart. We see the guy who can salvage a season, save a coach and build a stadium. Brad sees Alfred Anderson.
Give him credit -- Childress' strategy confounded the once-proud Bears defense on Sunday. After seeing Chester Taylor carry the ball, the Bears couldn't quite grasp the speed at which Peterson moved. While the Bears were waiting for dial-up, Peterson went all ethernet on them.
Most of us would think asking Peterson to be a backup is a bit like asking Jimi Hendrix to play rhythm guitar, or Luciano Pavarotti to hum in the background, but it worked. Peterson went through the Bears like seed through a goose.
Monday afternoon, in the Vikings' locker room, Peterson's teammates sounded relieved, knowing they have finally found the backup running back they were looking for.
"He's the best backup I've ever seen," said cornerback Antoine Winfield.
"Yes," said quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, "we have the best backup running back in the NFL."
Winfield and Jackson were smiling as they spoke. Maybe they were thinking of Frank Caliendo's John Madden impersonation, because this is serious stuff.
You can't win in the NFL without a great backup running back. Remember those great Cowboys teams, led by Troy Hambrick? Remember the Steel Curtain dynasty, led by Reggie Harrison?
"Adrian," Jackson said, "looks like a grown man playing in a Pee Wee game."
It takes a true football insider to look at Peterson and see Ted Brown.
But it's important for Peterson to play his role. You can't have him make the first carry of the game -- he might break the play for an 80-yard touchdown, and Pat Williams might have to take the field before he's done with his baby back ribs.
Plus, Erasmus James apparently has a problem with starting running backs, and you don't want him taking a swing at Peterson's collarbone.
Having shown the nation that he's a Moss with manners, Peterson will try to establish himself further as a quality backup running back on Sunday in his home state.
Peterson is entering what Dennis Green used to call "rarified air." Sure, fans all over the country are comparing him to Eric Dickerson or Walter Payton.
Blessed with Brad's vision, we in Minnesota know better. We know Peterson has a chance to make us forget all about D.J. Dozier.
Jim Souhan can be heard Sundays from 10 a.m.-noon on AM-1500 KSTP. • jsouhan@startribune.com
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I've always been a "glass is half-full" guy, so here I go.
As frustrating as it is to watch the Vikings this year, let's keep in mind a couple things.
1) They have been in every game - outcome hasn't been decided until the last drive or two in every game (adds to the frustration level, but at least they are competitive).
2) They have four losses (three of them on the road) and the combined record of those they have lost to is 19-7, so they have been competitive against quality opponents.
I'll say it again, they aren't a playoff team anyway, but they have played ok and if they can add a playmaker at WR in the offseason and figure out the QB position, they will be ok.
As frustrating as it is to watch the Vikings this year, let's keep in mind a couple things.
1) They have been in every game - outcome hasn't been decided until the last drive or two in every game (adds to the frustration level, but at least they are competitive).
2) They have four losses (three of them on the road) and the combined record of those they have lost to is 19-7, so they have been competitive against quality opponents.
I'll say it again, they aren't a playoff team anyway, but they have played ok and if they can add a playmaker at WR in the offseason and figure out the QB position, they will be ok.
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In my view, it's not too difficult to figure out. Travaris Jackson isn't a starting caliber QB on a solid Division I team, much less a solid NFL starter. If this team had a Hasselbeck-esque starting QB, just solid but not great, we'd be 4-2, maybe 5-1. The Vikings need to contact Cleveland post haste and see what it would take to pry away Derek Anderson. We need a guy now, not one that will take 2-3 years to develop, as our defense is built to win now. A solid QB would make the WR's better, even though we all know they lack talent.
snogger
Footballguy
Thanks to our defense we have had a chance every game.Many disagree with me, but I'm actually happy they are sticking with TJ. We have to know now what his future is with the team. We can't go into another off season wondering if he can or cannot be the starting QB in the future. Benching him and still losing does nothing to further this team to develop for the future.But the biggest reason, as I've posted before, is that the more they stink, the more the chances go up we get rid of Chilldress. ... There is my 1/2 full glass thinking.. The more we suck the better we will be.
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snogger
Footballguy
Next year.. I don't see any chance of us doing anything this year. Doesn't matter who the QB is.. With the inexperience at WR, the OL not knowing how to pass protect and Childress deciding how players should be used they have no chance.Live with the crappy season we are in for this year, higher pick in the draft next season with the hope the owner gets rid of Childress...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I was just thinking this morning that the Vikes should trade for Quinn if the Browns continue to get production out of Anderson. They're missing a 1st rounder, and our top 10 pick would be worth it to get Quinn.
For the love of GOD, snogger. We already know what Jackson's future is. It's the same as Spergeon Wynn. The guy has a gun for an arm and that is IT. He has shown now progress and only the barest of flashes - not enough to hang your hat on.Like you said though - if it gets rid of Childress then by all means, continue to play him.Thanks to our defense we have had a chance every game.Many disagree with me, but I'm actually happy they are sticking with TJ. We have to know now what his future is with the team. We can't go into another off season wondering if he can or cannot be the starting QB in the future. Benching him and still losing does nothing to further this team to develop for the future.But the biggest reason, as I've posted before, is that the more they stink it, the more the chances go up we get rid of Chilldress. ... There is my 1/2 full glass thining.. The more we suck the better we will be.
snogger
Footballguy
I was just thinking this morning that the Vikes should trade for Quinn if the Browns continue to get production out of Anderson. They're missing a 1st rounder, and our top 10 pick would be worth it to get Quinn.For the love of GOD, snogger. We already know what Jackson's future is. It's the same as Spergeon Wynn. The guy has a gun for an arm and that is IT. He has shown now progress and only the barest of flashes - not enough to hang your hat on.Like you said though - if it gets rid of Childress then by all means, continue to play him.Thanks to our defense we have had a chance every game.
Many disagree with me, but I'm actually happy they are sticking with TJ. We have to know now what his future is with the team. We can't go into another off season wondering if he can or cannot be the starting QB in the future. Benching him and still losing does nothing to further this team to develop for the future.
But the biggest reason, as I've posted before, is that the more they stink it, the more the chances go up we get rid of Chilldress. ...
There is my 1/2 full glass thining.. The more we suck the better we will be.
Think about it this way.. If we let Holmcomb start the rest of the way and he got us to a 7-9 or 8-8 record, what good does that do us??Owner thinks Childress is smart and keeps him
and Childress will go into next year saying "TJ learned and will be better"
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Here are the likely FA's available next year:
I don't see much help there.Let's speculate wildly for a second...
If Derek Anderson continues to play well for the Browns, is there a chance that Quinn could be had for a top 10 pick?
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
LOLThey already passed on Quinn. They're not going to give up their #1 for him now. As long as Chili is here Tarvaris is the man. Get used to it.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I would say that circumstances have changed dramatically. They passed on Quinn because they thought they could make TJ an NFL QB. They're obviously wrong.If it helps you speculate, consider Childress gone.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I meant to type that I assume the Cowboys re-sign Romo. Cripes, if they don't...
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
If Childress is gone I see them taking YET another QB in the draft. That will be another draft pick on a QB. Someone will have to explain to me why Thigpen wasn't protected at all, and then another pick was wasted on Holcombe.
This front office has Miami Dolphins written all over it. That should scare people.
This front office has Miami Dolphins written all over it. That should scare people.
jestertj
Footballguy
I agree with this.I can't help but wonder what this team could be had they found a way to get Matt Schaub.
Thanks to our defense we have had a chance every game.
Many disagree with me, but I'm actually happy they are sticking with TJ. We have to know now what his future is with the team. We can't go into another off season wondering if he can or cannot be the starting QB in the future. Benching him and still losing does nothing to further this team to develop for the future.
But the biggest reason, as I've posted before, is that the more they stink, the more the chances go up we get rid of Chilldress. ...
There is my 1/2 full glass thinking.. The more we suck the better we will be.
I know your thoughts on Childress, but let me ask you this...
What do you think this team and offense would look like with a capable QB?
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
If they had gotten Shaub and ONE serviceable receiver in free agency they would be a playoff team this year. Easily.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Considering Rick Speilman managed the Dolphins into the ground, this isn't surprising.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
So how can you lay all the blame on Childress...he can only coach what he has. I know he like TJ coming out of college but he is not the only one making roster decisions.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Good enough to win games.But the WRs aren't helping the matter either.
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ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
I just called the front office "Miami Dolphins" like. I don't and never have just blamed Childress.You have one of the worst front offices in football. Their public relations dept. is the worst.
You have perhaps the worst personnel man in Spielman in football. Terrible.
And you have Chili. You know Chili had the hard on for Tarvaris. You don't draft a QB without getting some input from the coach. Chili has made most of the decisions at the QB position, including floating Thigpen when it was quite obvious he would be scooped up.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Sweet Jeebus, no.They passed on Quinn because they thought Jackson was good enough.
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
Or, Donovan was the plan all along. I wouldn't put it past Chili.
Just looked though some new articles and Dallas as already stated they will Tag Romo if they can not work out a deal.I meant to type that I assume the Cowboys re-sign Romo. Cripes, if they don't...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm betting Philly releases McNabb anyway. Wouldn't surprise me to see the Vikes take a run at him. May generate some excitement anyway.ScoobyDoo said:
snogger
Footballguy
Because he made the choices. He made the choice to go into the season with TJ as his starter.FunkyPlutos said:
He made the decision to not go after any veteran WR's.
He made the decision to go after that TE from the Giants.
The TE has looked OK at times, but not worth the money they spent on him.
He also has made the decision to use AD on Kickoff returns and than say he is getting as many touches as Chester.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
They passed on Quinn because AD is an animal!Andy Dufresne said:
encaitar
Footballguy
Well, the reason they gave for passing on Quinn was to see if TJ was an NFL QB. To give him his shot.
If they really thought AD was that much of an animal when they drafted him, maybe he would've been promoted to starter by now?
As a sidenote: Did anyone else see Adrian's dad on Sunday? He looked like he could suit up and knock some heads off! He was busting out of his jersey with all his muscles. Somehow this gives me more confidence in ADP.
If they really thought AD was that much of an animal when they drafted him, maybe he would've been promoted to starter by now?
As a sidenote: Did anyone else see Adrian's dad on Sunday? He looked like he could suit up and knock some heads off! He was busting out of his jersey with all his muscles. Somehow this gives me more confidence in ADP.
the past few years he hasn't had much else to do but lift.
Vikes Fan
Footballguy
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snogger
Footballguy
Players "available" next year:
Maybe if he continues on his pace, but seems a little steep.
Trade bait?
Worth a 1st & 3rd rounder??
Maybe if he continues on his pace, but seems a little steep.
do we want a headache, if he performs?
Trade bait?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No way. Not worth that. I'd give up a 1st for Quinn though.Players "available" next year:
Worth a 1st & 3rd rounder??Maybe if he continues on his pace, but seems a little steep.
Are you kidding me? Ocho Cinco would be AWESOME in purple. It's only because the Bengals are losing that he's "become a headache". He's the same guy he was before.
And they aren't losing because of his play, that's for sure.
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