2007 Rookie Draft / WIDE RECEIVER (1 Viewer)

[EBF]

I don't know much about the second tier guys, but I am a big fan of Calvin Johnson, Dwayne Jarrett, and Ted Ginn. Each player has a lot to offer.

Calvin Johnson - Guy has incredible body control and ball skills. He reminds me of Marvin Harrison and Larry Fitzgerald in those departments. Lingering concern is his speed/explosiveness. He looks fast enough, but isn't a burner and might have some trouble separating from NFL DBs. I still say worst case scenario is a Keyshawn-type career. Best case scenario is perennial 1,200+ yard seasons. One of the safest players in the draft. Won't be a bust unless he develops a crack habit overnight or gets hit by a train.

Dwayne Jarrett - Jarrett has a little bit of everything. Good size, speed, and the ability to make some sick catches. I think he projects as a #1 WR in the mold of Plaxico Burress, but somewhat slimmer and faster. Only concern is consistency. He'll drop some balls. Still, a top prospect and a good bet to become an effective NFL player.

Ted Ginn - There are fast players, and there are fast players. This guy can flat out FLY. Even in the NFL, he'll be much faster than most of the players covering him. He has proven to be a major playmaker in the return game, which shows that he has goood field vision and run-after-the-catch skills. The trouble with Ginn is that he really hasn't put up the gaudy receiving stats. Is he really a great WR, or just a great athlete? Can he run routes? Make the tough grabs? Could end up being a glorified Desmond Howard, but has the freakish speed to be a star. Upside is a cross between Steve Smith and Randy Moss.

I don't know much about the secondd tier guys, but here are my thoughts so far:

Not a big fan of Jeff S. Would he be an adequate starter in the NFL? Probably. A star? Highly doubt it. He can run fast in a straight line and catch the ball over DBs. That's about it. I don't think it's enough to make him any better than someone like Marcus Robinson.

Steve Smith is a sneaky pick. My guess is that when all is said and done, he'll be a second round selection in the draft. He has a little bit of Torry Holt in him, but is more likely to become a solid #2 than a go-to #1 at the next level. In many ways, he's just a superior version of former Trojan Keary Colbert.

I haven't really done my homework on Sidney Rice, but I was fairly impressed with the clips that I saw. We'll see where he goes on draft day.

Jason Hill and Johnnie Lee Higgins have ripped up the competition at the college level. I'm really not familiar enough with either guy to make any predictions at this point, but I think both players are worth tracking.

 

[falconeyed]

 

[-OZ-]

I have to say at this point, outside of Johnson, I'm not enamored with the WRs this year. Jarrett could change that with a big day against Leon Hall, but he just doesn't "wow" me just yet. Consistent pro, I can see. Elite WR? I doubt it.

Ginn will be a huge player or huge bust as a WR. I'm sure I'd draft him in the late 1st, but I'd look to trade the pick away first. Homerun threat, but risk/reward for sure.

CC - you say these 3 are can't miss. Do you mean as contributors in the NFL or worth their draft position in FF? I figure Jarrett and Ginn will contribute, Ginn at least as a return specialist / #3 WR who will stretch the D, Jarrett as a #2 WR.

ETA: Is Rice entering the draft? If so, he's my #2 WR in this class.

ETA2: Just saw a mock with Ginn in TN. I would like him better here, as VY has the arm to hit him deep and the legs to give time for him to seperate from the CB.

Post Rose Bowl edit: Ok, I'm wowed now. I'm not 100% sure he'll be a #1 WR or FF WR1, but the kid's got skills.

 

[aposulli]

I have to say at this point, outside of Johnson, I'm not enamored with the WRs this year. Jarrett could change that with a big day against Leon Hall, but he just doesn't "wow" me just yet. Consistent pro, I can see. Elite WR? I doubt it. Ginn will be a huge player or huge bust as a WR. I'm sure I'd draft him in the late 1st, but I'd look to trade the pick away first. Homerun threat, but risk/reward for sure.CC - you say these 3 are can't miss. Do you mean as contributors in the NFL or worth their draft position in FF? I figure Jarrett and Ginn will contribute, Ginn at least as a return specialist / #3 WR who will stretch the D, Jarrett as a #2 WR.ETA: Is Rice entering the draft? If so, he's my #2 WR in this class. ETA2: Just saw a mock with Ginn in TN. I would like him better here, as VY has the arm to hit him deep and the legs to give time for him to seperate from the CB.

I like this class alot. Even given the fact that most people think Samardzija will be a bust...When have we had 6 potential 1st Rounders at WR?The last two years have been horrible in comparision

 

[wannabee]

I have to say at this point, outside of Johnson, I'm not enamored with the WRs this year. Jarrett could change that with a big day against Leon Hall, but he just doesn't "wow" me just yet. Consistent pro, I can see. Elite WR? I doubt it. Ginn will be a huge player or huge bust as a WR. I'm sure I'd draft him in the late 1st, but I'd look to trade the pick away first. Homerun threat, but risk/reward for sure.CC - you say these 3 are can't miss. Do you mean as contributors in the NFL or worth their draft position in FF? I figure Jarrett and Ginn will contribute, Ginn at least as a return specialist / #3 WR who will stretch the D, Jarrett as a #2 WR.ETA: Is Rice entering the draft? If so, he's my #2 WR in this class. ETA2: Just saw a mock with Ginn in TN. I would like him better here, as VY has the arm to hit him deep and the legs to give time for him to seperate from the CB.

Rice has said he is staying in school, but I do not think it is definitive yet.

 

[EBF]

I like this class alot. Even given the fact that most people think Samardzija will be a bust...When have we had 6 potential 1st Rounders at WR?

Larry FitzgeraldRoy WilliamsReggie WilliamsLee EvansMichael ClaytonMichael JenkinsRashaun Woods

 

[ILoveMyLions]

Let's pin some of these 2007 draft threads in a post like we've done the last few years...I'd be willing to do it, because that was a big help to me last year when I was preparing for my dynasty drafts.

 

[aposulli]

I like this class alot. Even given the fact that most people think Samardzija will be a bust...When have we had 6 potential 1st Rounders at WR?

Larry FitzgeraldRoy WilliamsReggie WilliamsLee EvansMichael ClaytonMichael JenkinsRashaun Woods

My memory has deceived me. Rashaun Woods

 

[massraider]

Let's pin some of these 2007 draft threads in a post like we've done the last few years...I'd be willing to do it, because that was a big help to me last year when I was preparing for my dynasty drafts.

 

[Grimmett]

 

[aposulli]

A couple updates:

Mario Urrutia and Adarius Bowman have decided to stay in school.

ESPN Insider

Rankings updated (post #29)

 

[aposulli]

Sidney Rice is preparing for the draft and sources say he is leaving early as a third year Sophmore.

ESPN Insider

Rankings updated (post #29)

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Sidney Rice is preparing for the draft and sources say he is leaving early as a third year Sophmore.

There's your #4 WR in this class if he comes out. Ill puke if the Patriots land him.

 

[aposulli]

Sidney Rice is preparing for the draft and sources say he is leaving early as a third year Sophmore.

There's your #4 WR in this class if he comes out. Ill puke if the Patriots land him.

I think the Pats will be looking hard at a physical WR with great work ethic. Rice reminds me more of the superstar type.I think he will be a GREAT NFL WR but I don't think he fits into the Pat's plans.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Sidney Rice is preparing for the draft and sources say he is leaving early as a third year Sophmore.

There's your #4 WR in this class if he comes out. Ill puke if the Patriots land him.

I think the Pats will be looking hard at a physical WR with great work ethic. Rice reminds me more of the superstar type.I think he will be a GREAT NFL WR but I don't think he fits into the Pat's plans.

I read somewhere that influential South Carolina players thought Rice was crazy for staying in school. Multi-position player, Syvelle Newton, jokingly threatened to take him about back and kick his ### if he stayed in school. I just thought that a strange spin. Usually they want the young star to stay. I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

\I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

:( Five WRs in this year's class that are better than any in last year's class if Meachem, Rice, Jarrett, Ginn, and Johnson come out... (all hail the underclassmen!)

 

[noneother]

\I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

Five WRs in this year's class that are better than any in last year's class if Meachem, Rice, Jarrett, Ginn, and Johnson come out... (all hail the underclassmen!)

you're saying meachem and Ginn are better WRs than Chad jackson? Ginn I think has value as a returner.. but wr I would think Jackson should be better than either....

 

[aposulli]

\I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

Five WRs in this year's class that are better than any in last year's class if Meachem, Rice, Jarrett, Ginn, and Johnson come out... (all hail the underclassmen!)

you're saying meachem and Ginn are better WRs than Chad jackson? Ginn I think has value as a returner.. but wr I would think Jackson should be better than either....

Good point, Ginn's value as a returner will help his NFL draft stock more than his fantasy if your league does not count return yardage/TD's. Still his value would become higher in leagues that reward long TD's.Ginn = Troy Williamson with hands.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

\I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

Five WRs in this year's class that are better than any in last year's class if Meachem, Rice, Jarrett, Ginn, and Johnson come out... (all hail the underclassmen!)

you're saying meachem and Ginn are better WRs than Chad jackson? Ginn I think has value as a returner.. but wr I would think Jackson should be better than either....

As draft prospects, Meachem and Ginn are going to be higher rated on draft day 07 than Jackson was on draft day 06, yes.The 06 WR class was unbelievably weak at the top. Very good in the 2nd tier/Middle, but weak at the top.

 

[-OZ-]

\I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

Five WRs in this year's class that are better than any in last year's class if Meachem, Rice, Jarrett, Ginn, and Johnson come out... (all hail the underclassmen!)

you're saying meachem and Ginn are better WRs than Chad jackson? Ginn I think has value as a returner.. but wr I would think Jackson should be better than either....

As draft prospects, Meachem and Ginn are going to be higher rated on draft day 07 than Jackson was on draft day 06, yes.The 06 WR class was unbelievably weak at the top. Very good in the 2nd tier/Middle, but weak at the top.

I'll agree with this. I'm wondering how you'd compare this class to 2004 and 2005. Would you disagree that aside from CJ, none of these WRs are better prospects than Fitz, Roy, Reggie Williams, Evans, Edwards, Mark Clayton, and Mike Williams (whom I hesitate to list, but he was highly regarded). Do you think there's a fair chance of 3 WRs being drafted in the top 10 this year? (2005)4 in the top 15? (2004)

 

[EBF]

\I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

Five WRs in this year's class that are better than any in last year's class if Meachem, Rice, Jarrett, Ginn, and Johnson come out... (all hail the underclassmen!)

you're saying meachem and Ginn are better WRs than Chad jackson? Ginn I think has value as a returner.. but wr I would think Jackson should be better than either....

As draft prospects, Meachem and Ginn are going to be higher rated on draft day 07 than Jackson was on draft day 06, yes.The 06 WR class was unbelievably weak at the top. Very good in the 2nd tier/Middle, but weak at the top.

I'll agree with this. I'm wondering how you'd compare this class to 2004 and 2005. Would you disagree that aside from CJ, none of these WRs are better prospects than Fitz, Roy, Reggie Williams, Evans, Edwards, Mark Clayton, and Mike Williams (whom I hesitate to list, but he was highly regarded). Do you think there's a fair chance of 3 WRs being drafted in the top 10 this year? (2005)4 in the top 15? (2004)

I would say Dwayne Jarrett and Ted Ginn certainly warrant placement in the same category as prospects like Roy Williams, Reggie Williams, Lee Evans, Mark Clayton, and Mike Williams. I don't think people realize how good Jarrett is. I don't see him falling past 11.

 

[The Royal Jack]

Sidney Rice is preparing for the draft and sources say he is leaving early as a third year Sophmore.

There's your #4 WR in this class if he comes out. Ill puke if the Patriots land him.

I think the Pats will be looking hard at a physical WR with great work ethic. Rice reminds me more of the superstar type.I think he will be a GREAT NFL WR but I don't think he fits into the Pat's plans.

I read somewhere that influential South Carolina players thought Rice was crazy for staying in school. Multi-position player, Syvelle Newton, jokingly threatened to take him about back and kick his ### if he stayed in school. I just thought that a strange spin. Usually they want the young star to stay. I'm very torn on how to rank Rice and Meachem. And I don't mean for spots 4 and 5. I'm thinking I like them higher. What a GREAT crop of wides.

Word out of Columbia is that SC soph. receiver Sidney Rice has cleaned out his dorm and is heading to Pheonix for a month long pre-combine camp.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

Lets talk Robert Meachem- who recently declared.

He has the size, speed and leaping ability to be a great red-zone option for any team. Remember this is the fastest guy from the entire (national) 2002 HS Recruiting class- and a 5 star rating to boot. With a blazing 4.28 speed and a top-5 Vertical Jump. Also has great size. Recently has timed out in the low 4.3's and has one of the best YPC in college football. Didnt live up to the hype his early years but really broke out this year. His stock is as high as ever. And his natural tools allow him to develop even when in the NFL.

I find him very similar to Braylon Edwards or perhaps a more physical Javon Walker. Early-to-mid Round 2 material because its such a deep WR class, but could see himself slip into the 1st round, depending on the combine, where he will likely be a big mover. If he doesnt do so well in the combine, he will be a 2nd round steal for any team in the market. Playing speed is phenomenal. Would love to see the Jaguars take him with their 2nd pick.

Right now I see him as behind only Calvin Johnson, Dwayne Jarrett and Ted Ginn.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Rice makes it official

COLUMBIA, S.C. - Sophomore Sidney Rice, South Carolina's all-time leader in touchdown receptions, is giving up his final two seasons to enter the NFL draft.

Gamecocks coach Steve Spurrier confirmed through a spokesman Sunday that Rice would go pro.

Spurrier was "disappointed and wished (Rice) would've stayed around another year," spokesman Steve Fink said.

But Spurrier supports Rice and wishes him the best, Fink said.

 

[beto]

I'm getting excited about this class. How is the top of the class looking now? You have all the underclassmen: Calvin Johnson, Jarrett, Ginn, Meacham and Rice. Then a group of seniors with Samardjia, Bowe and others. Looking very deep.

 

[aposulli]

Lots of Juniors still haven't decided weather or not they're coming back (that I've heard)

Ted Ginn Jr, OSU

D.J. Hall, Alabama

Dorien Bryant, Wake Forest

Early Doucet, LSU

Marcus Monk, Arkansas

Anthony Gonzalez, OSU

Andre Caldwell, Florida

Keenan Burton, Kentucky

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I'm getting excited about this class. How is the top of the class looking now? You have all the underclassmen: Calvin Johnson, Jarrett, Ginn, Meacham and Rice. Then a group of seniors with Samardjia, Bowe and others. Looking very deep.

I'm with you. This class is going to kick last year's butt at the top, and have the same fat middle tier. Of course, it does lack a "Brandon Marshall" (EEEEE), but no class is perfect.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I'm with you. This class is going to kick last year's butt at the top, and have the same fat middle tier.

I think last year's draft class was fatter at the top,but the plethora of solid WRs in this draft definatelyfattens the middle tier.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I'm with you. This class is going to kick last year's butt at the top, and have the same fat middle tier.

I think last year's draft class was fatter at the top,but the plethora of solid WRs in this draft definatelyfattens the middle tier.

Are we talking WR? Because there are already four WR prospects declared that are better prospects on draft any WR in last year's class was on draft day.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Of course, it does lack a "Brandon Marshall" (EEEEE), but no class is perfect.

Mike Walker, same school, same story, same studliness. He just isn't as fun to pimp, because I think the top 7 or 8 receivers in this draft are all better than Holmes and Jackson. See, Marshall didn't have to be that special to be a steal and fun sleeper. To be a sleeper this year isn't as interesting with the herd of studs.Yes, I'm serious.JohnsonJarrettRiceGinnMeachemHigginsSamardzijamaybe Hill or BoweAll grade higher than Holmes and Jackson. I prefer any of them on my team over either of last year's top two.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I'm with you. This class is going to kick last year's butt at the top, and have the same fat middle tier.

I think last year's draft class was fatter at the top,but the plethora of solid WRs in this draft definatelyfattens the middle tier.

Are we talking WR? Because there are already four WR prospects declared that are better prospects on draft any WR in last year's class was on draft day.

I'm drunk. I forgot we were on the WR topic here.I was referring to the draft as a whole.

 

[DawnBTVS]

I'm curious does anybody know the 40 times of past great receivers like Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, etc.?

I see a lot of people say that guys look fast but may not be burners (example: post 51 about Calvin Johnson) and as a result may not get separation from DBs in the NFL. Is that all just straight line 40 time speed or does that include route running and the ability to make the sharp cuts despite not having true burner speed?

 

[kook178]

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Any views of the impact of Ted Ginn's Draft Stock following the bowl game?

I never heard anything official since the game on the severity of his injury.

I also heard it described as a sprained foot and a sprained ankle.

I was very surprised that he never returned to the game given that he was able to jog back from the locker room at what appeared to be a fairly healthy clip. I would have expected some tape and least an effort to get on the field, if only as decoy to run straight fly patterns.

Now if he had a cracked bone or something fishy on the X-Ray, I'll give him a pass. But if this were just a "sprain", I'd have some questions regarding his toughness quotient.

 

[Schrute]

Sorry, not really into writing paragraphs upon paragraphs in my posts, just not my style... But I can assure you I put alot of thought into this list.Disclosure: These rankings are based on NFL fantasy potential, not necessarily predicted NFL Draft order19. Anthony Gonzalez, OSU*

For what it's worth, former Iowa LB Chad Greenway (now with the Vikes) was on local radio and said that Gonzalez was the best WR - by far - on that team. He said Ginn gets all the publicity because of his speed and big-play potential but that Gonzalez is virtually unstoppable over the middle and has unbelievable hands.

 

[coolnerd]

I'm curious does anybody know the 40 times of past great receivers like Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, etc.?I see a lot of people say that guys look fast but may not be burners (example: post 51 about Calvin Johnson) and as a result may not get separation from DBs in the NFL. Is that all just straight line 40 time speed or does that include route running and the ability to make the sharp cuts despite not having true burner speed?

In order of pure timed speed coming out (as I remember)Moss-elite timed speedHolt-elite timed speedHarrison-timed better than thought of nowOwens - did not time that wellBoldin- was widely considered too slowI am of the school that straighline speed is overrated. WRs gain separation through quickness out of cuts, strength, and running great routes. Also, in the pros a full step on a DB is considered great separation, while in college superior athletes often run free.

 

[aposulli]

Sorry, not really into writing paragraphs upon paragraphs in my posts, just not my style... But I can assure you I put alot of thought into this list.Disclosure: These rankings are based on NFL fantasy potential, not necessarily predicted NFL Draft order19. Anthony Gonzalez, OSU*

For what it's worth, former Iowa LB Chad Greenway (now with the Vikes) was on local radio and said that Gonzalez was the best WR - by far - on that team. He said Ginn gets all the publicity because of his speed and big-play potential but that Gonzalez is virtually unstoppable over the middle and has unbelievable hands.

Nice info, but I would rather take a scouting expert's opinion over an NFL'er.Also, Ginn benig the big play guy translates into more fantasy points than Gonzalez who might be nothing more than a possesion WR in the NFL.All that said, 19 is not a bad ranking, and at this point, he and many middle-tier guys are interchangeable.

 

[Schrute]

Sorry, not really into writing paragraphs upon paragraphs in my posts, just not my style... But I can assure you I put alot of thought into this list.

Disclosure: These rankings are based on NFL fantasy potential, not necessarily predicted NFL Draft order

19. Anthony Gonzalez, OSU*

For what it's worth, former Iowa LB Chad Greenway (now with the Vikes) was on local radio and said that Gonzalez was the best WR - by far - on that team. He said Ginn gets all the publicity because of his speed and big-play potential but that Gonzalez is virtually unstoppable over the middle and has unbelievable hands.

Nice info, but I would rather take a scouting expert's opinion over an NFL'er.Also, Ginn benig the big play guy translates into more fantasy points than Gonzalez who might be nothing more than a possesion WR in the NFL.

All that said, 19 is not a bad ranking, and at this point, he and many middle-tier guys are interchangeable.

Not necessarily. Think Devery Henderson vs. Marques Colston. I'm not suggesting that Ginn is Henderson or Gonzalez is Colston. But you get my drift. There are plenty of "possession" WRs that produce in fantasy, as well.

 

[DawnBTVS]

I'm curious does anybody know the 40 times of past great receivers like Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, etc.?

I see a lot of people say that guys look fast but may not be burners (example: post 51 about Calvin Johnson) and as a result may not get separation from DBs in the NFL. Is that all just straight line 40 time speed or does that include route running and the ability to make the sharp cuts despite not having true burner speed?

In order of pure timed speed coming out (as I remember)Moss-elite timed speed

Holt-elite timed speed

Harrison-timed better than thought of now

Owens - did not time that well

Boldin- was widely considered too slow

I am of the school that straighline speed is overrated. WRs gain separation through quickness out of cuts, strength, and running great routes. Also, in the pros a full step on a DB is considered great separation, while in college superior athletes often run free.

Thanks. I was looking up numbers and found some of the 40 times interesting and am curious if scouts tend to overrate the ability for a WR to run a sub 4.50 40 time in terms of evaluating potential NFL skill. Sources: NFL.com prospect profiles and http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...osition/WR.html for the 1998 Draft. Also http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfn/sfndwr.htm for the 1999 Draft. http://archive.profootballweekly.com/conte...greports_wr.asp for the 2000 Draft. Also past archives from JS Online. Notable players listed.Randy Moss (1st Round): 4.39

Kevin Dyson (1st Round): 4.45

Hines Ward (3rd Round): 4.55

Az-Zahir Hakim (3rd Round): 4.46

Tim Dwight (4th Round): 4.63

Marty Booker (3rd Round): 4.54

David Boston (1st Round): 4.47

Donald Driver (7th Round): 4.47

Torry Holt (1st Round): 4.44

Peerless Price (2nd Round): 4.45

Brandon Stokley (4th Round): 4.54

Plaxico Burress (1st Round): 4.60 *Estimated*

Darrell Jackson (3rd Round): 4.58

Jerry Porter (2nd Round): 4.55

Santana Moss (1st Round): 4.31

Reggie Wayne (1st Round): 4.45

Chris Chambers (2nd Round): 4.33

Steve Smith (3rd Round): 4.45

Chad Johnson (2nd Round): 4.57

Javon Walker (1st Round): 4.38

Deion Branch (2nd Round): 4.47

Antonio Bryant (2nd Round): 4.57

Ashley Lelie (1st Round): 4.49

Andre Johnson (1st Round): 4.30 *Campus*

Anquan Boldin (2nd Round): 4.47 *Campus* and 4.71 *Combine*

Larry Fitzgerald (1st Round): 4.63

Roy Williams (1st Round): 4.48

Lee Evans (1st Round): 4.33

Jerricho Cotchery (4th Round): 4.66

Interesting to see the wide disparity in the 40 times for the above group of receivers who have all been considered to be at least "solid" starters at one point if not outright studs. I was certainly surprised to see some of the 'slow' numbers next to guys like Chad Johnson, Hines Ward, Darrell Jackson, and Marty Booker. Seems most of them ranged from the 4.45-4.55 range with only five of them being taken in the 4th round or later.

Think this would make a good "quick" barometer in terms of rookie drafts and looking at WR's who may be late sleepers?

 

[Kleck.]

I don't think people realize how good Jarrett is. I don't see him falling past 11.

I agree. There is a much smaller gap between Calvin/Jarrett than there is between Jarrett/take your pick at #3.

 

[coolnerd]

I'm curious does anybody know the 40 times of past great receivers like Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, etc.?

I see a lot of people say that guys look fast but may not be burners (example: post 51 about Calvin Johnson) and as a result may not get separation from DBs in the NFL. Is that all just straight line 40 time speed or does that include route running and the ability to make the sharp cuts despite not having true burner speed?

In order of pure timed speed coming out (as I remember)Moss-elite timed speed

Holt-elite timed speed

Harrison-timed better than thought of now

Owens - did not time that well

Boldin- was widely considered too slow

I am of the school that straighline speed is overrated. WRs gain separation through quickness out of cuts, strength, and running great routes. Also, in the pros a full step on a DB is considered great separation, while in college superior athletes often run free.

Thanks. I was looking up numbers and found some of the 40 times interesting and am curious if scouts tend to overrate the ability for a WR to run a sub 4.50 40 time in terms of evaluating potential NFL skill. Sources: NFL.com prospect profiles and http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...osition/WR.html for the 1998 Draft. Also http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfn/sfndwr.htm for the 1999 Draft. http://archive.profootballweekly.com/conte...greports_wr.asp for the 2000 Draft. Also past archives from JS Online. Notable players listed.Randy Moss (1st Round): 4.39

Kevin Dyson (1st Round): 4.45

Hines Ward (3rd Round): 4.55

Az-Zahir Hakim (3rd Round): 4.46

Tim Dwight (4th Round): 4.63

Marty Booker (3rd Round): 4.54

David Boston (1st Round): 4.47

Donald Driver (7th Round): 4.47

Torry Holt (1st Round): 4.44

Peerless Price (2nd Round): 4.45

Brandon Stokley (4th Round): 4.54

Plaxico Burress (1st Round): 4.60 *Estimated*

Darrell Jackson (3rd Round): 4.58

Jerry Porter (2nd Round): 4.55

Santana Moss (1st Round): 4.31

Reggie Wayne (1st Round): 4.45

Chris Chambers (2nd Round): 4.33

Steve Smith (3rd Round): 4.45

Chad Johnson (2nd Round): 4.57

Javon Walker (1st Round): 4.38

Deion Branch (2nd Round): 4.47

Antonio Bryant (2nd Round): 4.57

Ashley Lelie (1st Round): 4.49

Andre Johnson (1st Round): 4.30 *Campus*

Anquan Boldin (2nd Round): 4.47 *Campus* and 4.71 *Combine*

Larry Fitzgerald (1st Round): 4.63

Roy Williams (1st Round): 4.48

Lee Evans (1st Round): 4.33

Jerricho Cotchery (4th Round): 4.66

Interesting to see the wide disparity in the 40 times for the above group of receivers who have all been considered to be at least "solid" starters at one point if not outright studs. I was certainly surprised to see some of the 'slow' numbers next to guys like Chad Johnson, Hines Ward, Darrell Jackson, and Marty Booker. Seems most of them ranged from the 4.45-4.55 range with only five of them being taken in the 4th round or later.

Think this would make a good "quick" barometer in terms of rookie drafts and looking at WR's who may be late sleepers?

40 times can be used in a couple of ways. One is to confirm whether what a scout sees with his eyes. The second is to make sure that a player is not too slow. Generally, I look around 4.55 on the slow end, but if the player shows quality skills otherwise maybe 4.60. Of course, timed speed does not tell the story if a guy plays to the clock or plays faster than the clock. Look at Andre Johnson and Chad Johnson. Andre has great clock speed and in fact placed like 2nd or 3rd in the Big East 60 yard dash in college, but even as an effective pro does not play to that type of speed on the field. Chad Johnson timed slow, but is in the handful of premier deep threats in the league.

 

[coolnerd]

I don't think people realize how good Jarrett is. I don't see him falling past 11.

I agree. There is a much smaller gap between Calvin/Jarrett than there is between Jarrett/take your pick at #3.

I believe that many people are being lazy and making Jarrett into Mike Williams. Jarrett while tall does not have the frame that Williams has. Williams can probably carry 250 easier than get to the 220 the Lions are trying to force him to stay,

 

[EBF]

I don't think people realize how good Jarrett is. I don't see him falling past 11.

I agree. There is a much smaller gap between Calvin/Jarrett than there is between Jarrett/take your pick at #3.

I believe that many people are being lazy and making Jarrett into Mike Williams. Jarrett while tall does not have the frame that Williams has. Williams can probably carry 250 easier than get to the 220 the Lions are trying to force him to stay,

Yep. Not many similarities between those two aside from height and long arms. Jarrett is quite a bit quicker (though not necessarily faster in a straight line).

 

[EBF]

Note that there's a big difference between speed and quickness. Chad Johnson and Anquan Boldin were both 4.60+ guys coming out of college, but they're both quick out of breaks. Boldin is one of the best open field runners of any WR due in part to his lateral agility.

Then there's a guy like Reggie Williams, who actually runs a 4.45, but has a reputation for being slow because he doesn't quite have the quick twitch of the game's top WRs.

In the speed department, it's important to trust your eyes. Mike Williams always looked slow and lumbering. Chad Johnson always looks fast. Don't worry too much about what the stopwatch says.

 

[EBF]

This works for RBs too. Here's a little trivia. Which of the following RBs has the fastest 40 time?

Kevin Jones

Cadillac Williams

Rudi Johnson

TJ Duckett

It's Duckett. He's fast as hell. That didn't stop him from reaching status.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

dot

 

[King of the Jungle]

Note that there's a big difference between speed and quickness. Chad Johnson and Anquan Boldin were both 4.60+ guys coming out of college, but they're both quick out of breaks. Boldin is one of the best open field runners of any WR due in part to his lateral agility. Then there's a guy like Reggie Williams, who actually runs a 4.45, but has a reputation for being slow because he doesn't quite have the quick twitch of the game's top WRs. In the speed department, it's important to trust your eyes. Mike Williams always looked slow and lumbering. Chad Johnson always looks fast. Don't worry too much about what the stopwatch says.

Good point.I sometimes wonder if looking at the shuttle times would be more effective to judge game speed.

 

[KTM]

I don't think people realize how good Jarrett is. I don't see him falling past 11.

I agree. There is a much smaller gap between Calvin/Jarrett than there is between Jarrett/take your pick at #3.

I believe that many people are being lazy and making Jarrett into Mike Williams. Jarrett while tall does not have the frame that Williams has. Williams can probably carry 250 easier than get to the 220 the Lions are trying to force him to stay,

I sure hope it stays that way through the spring (fantasy wise)...

 

[aposulli]

Lots of Juniors still haven't decided weather or not they're coming back (that I've heard)Ted Ginn Jr, OSUD.J. Hall, AlabamaDorien Bryant, Wake ForestEarly Doucet, LSUMarcus Monk, ArkansasAnthony Gonzalez, OSUAndre Caldwell, FloridaKeenan Burton, Kentucky

Gonzalez and Caldwell coming out... any word on these other Juniors or any others not on this list?

 

[Chaos Commish]

Lots of Juniors still haven't decided weather or not they're coming back (that I've heard)Ted Ginn Jr, OSUD.J. Hall, AlabamaDorien Bryant, Wake ForestEarly Doucet, LSUMarcus Monk, ArkansasAnthony Gonzalez, OSUAndre Caldwell, FloridaKeenan Burton, Kentucky

Gonzalez and Caldwell coming out... any word on these other Juniors or any others not on this list?

Another board member is telling me Caldwell is staying in school.Ginn is should declare. Burton is being monitored. I think he stays.I think Doucet and Hall stay.Marcus Monk is taking his time.

Monk said several factors will play into his decision, such as what type of talent Arkansas has coming back next season and whether his draft status could improve if he returned for his senior season.“There is a chance I can come back and better what (the NFL draft advisory board) told me or it can stay the same,” Monk said. “It’s a decision I have to make. That’s why I’m not going into it too fast.”