2009 Rookie Draft Picks (2 Viewers)

[EBF]

Harvin is a guy that as I've said earlier will struggle to find an identity in the NFL IMO. He is not ready to be a NFL WR and may never be that. I view him as a Hester type player. That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, just maybe not a great fantasy player.

I wouldn't punish Harvin for his versatility. His college usage has been wacky, but the kid has skills. He has a chance to be an Eddie Royal or Santana Moss type. He's one of the guys in this class who jumps off the screen as a legit athlete.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Curious as to which Wrs you guys like outside the big 4. What other guys do you think will go in the 1st two rounds?

Who are you saying is the big 4?

Crab, Hey Bey, Harvin, Maclin

Personally I don't think there is a big 4. I think there is Bey and Crabtree, then there rest. I'd also go one further and say that I think Bey will grade out a bit better. Either way, marginal difference IMO. Still, big 2, not 4 if you ask me.Maclin is next.Harvin is a guy that as I've said earlier will struggle to find an identity in the NFL IMO. He is not ready to be a NFL WR and may never be that. I view him as a Hester type player. That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, just maybe not a great fantasy player. Regardless if that is your top 4 then here are the other guys that need to be discussed:Robiskie, OSUWilliams, PSUByrd, LSUMcKinley, S. CarDillard, RiceForgot to add Iglesias, Oklahoma.

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

 

[jurb26]

Harvin is a guy that as I've said earlier will struggle to find an identity in the NFL IMO. He is not ready to be a NFL WR and may never be that. I view him as a Hester type player. That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, just maybe not a great fantasy player.

I wouldn't punish Harvin for his versatility. His college usage has been wacky, but the kid has skills. He has a chance to be an Eddie Royal or Santana Moss type. He's one of the guys in this class who jumps off the screen as a legit athlete.

I nearly put this in my original post but didn't for what ever reason. I think if you draft Harvin in fantasy leagues be prepared for Hester type usage but hope for S. Moss type. Both good guys to compare him with coming out. Harvin is a great athlete, no doubt. But playing WR in the NFL takes time and attention to detail. He is going to be well behind the curve simply because of how he is used at Florida. That doesn't mean he can't be a fast learner. I just wouldn't expect it.

 

[jurb26]

Curious as to which Wrs you guys like outside the big 4. What other guys do you think will go in the 1st two rounds?

Who are you saying is the big 4?

Crab, Hey Bey, Harvin, Maclin

Personally I don't think there is a big 4. I think there is Bey and Crabtree, then there rest. I'd also go one further and say that I think Bey will grade out a bit better. Either way, marginal difference IMO. Still, big 2, not 4 if you ask me.Maclin is next.Harvin is a guy that as I've said earlier will struggle to find an identity in the NFL IMO. He is not ready to be a NFL WR and may never be that. I view him as a Hester type player. That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, just maybe not a great fantasy player. Regardless if that is your top 4 then here are the other guys that need to be discussed:Robiskie, OSUWilliams, PSUByrd, LSUMcKinley, S. CarDillard, RiceForgot to add Iglesias, Oklahoma.

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

Both Ginn and Jackson lined up at WR PRIMARILY in Pro style offenses and faced the best coverage college teams could throw at them. Harvin has not. We got to see Both Ginn and Jackson run routes, adjust to zones, challenge man coverage and face press coverage in great detail. None of which we have gotten to see Harvin do. It doesn't mean he can't. But it also doesn't prove he can.

 

[EBF]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

 

[Abraham]

I've read a lot Colin, but I'm not surprised to see you come to the defense of a Longhorn! He's all over the map by most scouts. I've seen him ranked as a for certain first rounder some places but do a quick search and you'll find plenty of people that say he's at best a mid-rounder. I can't find a link but I know Kiper has said he doesn't see McCoy as a top prospect.

I think he'll benefit from short-supply vs. high demand.And for the record, I have very little regard for Kiper.

 

[jurb26]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

 

[jurb26]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

Bey also has low 4.3 speed, great size, great leaping ability, strong hands and concentration.

 

[EBF]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

 

[Buckna]

I've read a lot Colin, but I'm not surprised to see you come to the defense of a Longhorn! He's all over the map by most scouts. I've seen him ranked as a for certain first rounder some places but do a quick search and you'll find plenty of people that say he's at best a mid-rounder. I can't find a link but I know Kiper has said he doesn't see McCoy as a top prospect.

I think he'll benefit from short-supply vs. high demand.And for the record, I have very little regard for Kiper.

I think if he stays (which is very likely) he will move up the rankings greatly. I don't see a Leinart situation at all as someone else mentioned. Leinart was an almost assured #1 pick over Alex Smith in 2005 when he stayed where I don't see Colt would be anywhere near that level unless something ratches up his stock (like a National Championship did for Jamarcus.) But you're right, lack of supply sometimes causes players to get picked earlier.

 

[plastik]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

 

[jurb26]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

I respect both of your opinions on the matter, but Ginn wasn't a top 10 overall pick by accident no matter how many people (Mia fans who were booing included) want to think that is the case. I would be totally shocked if Harvin were a top 10 pick and surprised if he was even in the top half of the 1st round as well. I'd have to disagree with you that Harvin has better hands. Though I must say I think the 2 are about equal in that aspect so there isn't really a distinct advantage to Ginn either. I've also noticed that nearly all of what you are saying you like about Harvin more than Ginn is something you would look for in a RB (the position that he basically does play at Florida) and not a WR. Which is pretty much my point. You are right in that Harvin is more impressive in those areas and is a dynamic college player. I am talking in reference to Harvin playing WR in the NFL, not RB.

 

[Brewzers]

Curious as to which Wrs you guys like outside the big 4. What other guys do you think will go in the 1st two rounds?

Who are you saying is the big 4?

Crab, Hey Bey, Harvin, Maclin

Personally I don't think there is a big 4. I think there is Bey and Crabtree, then there rest. I'd also go one further and say that I think Bey will grade out a bit better. Either way, marginal difference IMO. Still, big 2, not 4 if you ask me.Maclin is next.Harvin is a guy that as I've said earlier will struggle to find an identity in the NFL IMO. He is not ready to be a NFL WR and may never be that. I view him as a Hester type player. That doesn't mean he isn't a great player, just maybe not a great fantasy player. Regardless if that is your top 4 then here are the other guys that need to be discussed:Robiskie, OSUWilliams, PSUByrd, LSUMcKinley, S. CarDillard, RiceForgot to add Iglesias, Oklahoma.

Jarrett Dillard seems like a sleeper in here. I saw him play against Texas and was very impressed. He is athletic and plays "bigger" than his size. He is definetly on my watch list.

 

[cstu]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

I respect both of your opinions on the matter, but Ginn wasn't a top 10 overall pick by accident no matter how many people (Mia fans who were booing included) want to think that is the case. I would be totally shocked if Harvin were a top 10 pick and surprised if he was even in the top half of the 1st round as well. I'd have to disagree with you that Harvin has better hands. Though I must say I think the 2 are about equal in that aspect so there isn't really a distinct advantage to Ginn either. I've also noticed that nearly all of what you are saying you like about Harvin more than Ginn is something you would look for in a RB (the position that he basically does play at Florida) and not a WR. Which is pretty much my point. You are right in that Harvin is more impressive in those areas and is a dynamic college player. I am talking in reference to Harvin playing WR in the NFL, not RB.

Ginn is more of a true WR, but I do see Harvin in a Reggie Bush role in the NFL.

 

[coolnerd]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

I respect both of your opinions on the matter, but Ginn wasn't a top 10 overall pick by accident no matter how many people (Mia fans who were booing included) want to think that is the case. I would be totally shocked if Harvin were a top 10 pick and surprised if he was even in the top half of the 1st round as well. I'd have to disagree with you that Harvin has better hands. Though I must say I think the 2 are about equal in that aspect so there isn't really a distinct advantage to Ginn either. I've also noticed that nearly all of what you are saying you like about Harvin more than Ginn is something you would look for in a RB (the position that he basically does play at Florida) and not a WR. Which is pretty much my point. You are right in that Harvin is more impressive in those areas and is a dynamic college player. I am talking in reference to Harvin playing WR in the NFL, not RB.

Ginn is more of a true WR, but I do see Harvin in a Reggie Bush role in the NFL.

Harvin's designation qwill some influence his value. I suspect he will be call WR in the pros, but not unreasonable to think some team tags him as RB.

 

[plastik]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

I respect both of your opinions on the matter, but Ginn wasn't a top 10 overall pick by accident no matter how many people (Mia fans who were booing included) want to think that is the case. I would be totally shocked if Harvin were a top 10 pick and surprised if he was even in the top half of the 1st round as well. I'd have to disagree with you that Harvin has better hands. Though I must say I think the 2 are about equal in that aspect so there isn't really a distinct advantage to Ginn either. I've also noticed that nearly all of what you are saying you like about Harvin more than Ginn is something you would look for in a RB (the position that he basically does play at Florida) and not a WR. Which is pretty much my point. You are right in that Harvin is more impressive in those areas and is a dynamic college player. I am talking in reference to Harvin playing WR in the NFL, not RB.

Ginn should not have gone with the 9th pick, pretty much everyone was shocked when he did. He was chosen at that spot by a completely inept Doplphins staff and managment a full 14 spots ahead of Bowe (a much better prospect, IMO) when we had a slew of greater needs to adress. I dont think that a comparison of draft position vs. likely draft position holds much value in the comparison of these two players. Whatever the case, three year's into each player's career I'd rather have Harvin on both my NFL team and FF team than Ginn.

 

[Chachi]

Rotoworld: As Clemson continues to search for a new head coach, C.J. Spiller gave his endorsement for interim head coach Dabo Swinney. The junior running back indicated that if Dabo is retained, he would return for his final year.

While Spiller's comments are admirable, we would hope Clemson would not make a coaching decision based on players' desires. At the same time, let's see how Spiller feels after dollar signs start rolling around in his head at the end of the year.

If he returns

 

[Burning Sensation]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

I respect both of your opinions on the matter, but Ginn wasn't a top 10 overall pick by accident no matter how many people (Mia fans who were booing included) want to think that is the case. I would be totally shocked if Harvin were a top 10 pick and surprised if he was even in the top half of the 1st round as well. I'd have to disagree with you that Harvin has better hands. Though I must say I think the 2 are about equal in that aspect so there isn't really a distinct advantage to Ginn either. I've also noticed that nearly all of what you are saying you like about Harvin more than Ginn is something you would look for in a RB (the position that he basically does play at Florida) and not a WR. Which is pretty much my point. You are right in that Harvin is more impressive in those areas and is a dynamic college player. I am talking in reference to Harvin playing WR in the NFL, not RB.

Ginn should not have gone with the 9th pick, pretty much everyone was shocked when he did. He was chosen at that spot by a completely inept Doplphins staff and managment a full 14 spots ahead of Bowe (a much better prospect, IMO) when we had a slew of greater needs to adress. I dont think that a comparison of draft position vs. likely draft position holds much value in the comparison of these two players. Whatever the case, three year's into each player's career I'd rather have Harvin on both my NFL team and FF team than Ginn.

Good hindsight

 

[EBF]

Rotoworld: As Clemson continues to search for a new head coach, C.J. Spiller gave his endorsement for interim head coach Dabo Swinney. The junior running back indicated that if Dabo is retained, he would return for his final year.While Spiller's comments are admirable, we would hope Clemson would not make a coaching decision based on players' desires. At the same time, let's see how Spiller feels after dollar signs start rolling around in his head at the end of the year.If he returns

Doubt he comes back. The program is a mess and they've never utilized him well. Might as well take the money and run.

 

[EBF]

I don't see any risk of Harvin being a RB in the NFL. The first time I've even heard that talk is this thread. Like I said, people are getting too hung up on the college usage. Eddie Royal was primarily a return man in college. Anquan Boldin spent a lot of time at QB. Brandon Marshall spent a season playing safety. You have to look beyond the college usage and evaluate the athlete. Is he a great football player? Is he a rare talent? Does he have all the physical gifts needed to play the game at a high level? When it comes to Harvin, the answer to all three of those questions is an emphatic yes.

As for Ginn, the fact that he was the 9th pick doesn't somehow prove that he's an awesome WR. As we know, teams sometimes make mistakes in the draft. Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, and Reggie Williams were all top ten picks. Being picked in the top ten doesn't guarantee greatness. My personal opinion is that Harvin is a much more promising pure WR than Ginn despite the fact that he might be picked 10-15 spots lower. Ginn has elite top speed, but he's a loping runner with less than ideal body proportions (his legs are too long for his frame). Harvin is quicker laterally with better potential as a route runner. He's also built quite a bit stronger. I think he'll have the better career when it's all said and done.

 

[jurb26]

I don't see any risk of Harvin being a RB in the NFL. The first time I've even heard that talk is this thread. Like I said, people are getting too hung up on the college usage. Eddie Royal was primarily a return man in college. Anquan Boldin spent a lot of time at QB. Brandon Marshall spent a season playing safety. You have to look beyond the college usage and evaluate the athlete. Is he a great football player? Is he a rare talent? Does he have all the physical gifts needed to play the game at a high level? When it comes to Harvin, the answer to all three of those questions is an emphatic yes. As for Ginn, the fact that he was the 9th pick doesn't somehow prove that he's an awesome WR. As we know, teams sometimes make mistakes in the draft. Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, and Reggie Williams were all top ten picks. Being picked in the top ten doesn't guarantee greatness. My personal opinion is that Harvin is a much more promising pure WR than Ginn despite the fact that he might be picked 10-15 spots lower. Ginn has elite top speed, but he's a loping runner with less than ideal body proportions (his legs are too long for his frame). Harvin is quicker laterally with better potential as a route runner. He's also built quite a bit stronger. I think he'll have the better career when it's all said and done.

Who said anything about Harvin being an NFL RB? I simply said that the attributes plastik was sighting where those of him playing RB in college. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense when projecting him as a NFL WR.Also, lots of people and places did in fact rank Ginn as a top 10 or 15 prospect the year he was drafted. CC and myself where 2 of them. Ginn is by no means disappointing at this stage either. You can debate if you think Harvin will end up being a better NFL player or WR than Ginn all you want. I don't believe that will be the case, but I've also not made that my point here. The point is that Harvin will not grade as highly as Ginn did and will not be drafted as soon. You can call it a mistake all you want. It doesn't look like Ginn was a mistake however. There was just an article on ESPN on how Ginn is on the verge of stardom. You know who else is a "loping" runner? Randy Moss. You continually seem to try and mold these prospects into some sort of cookie cutter form that fits what you want. The truth is WRs have a drastic variance in builds and all the different types are and can be successful. None of Randy Moss, TO, Harrison, Steve Smith, and Boldin are built the same. All are built drastically different. All are still elite WRs.

 

[jurb26]

I feel about Maclin like you feel about Bey. Dependant on the combine i think he might grade out higher than Crabtree. He's got low 4.3 capability. Is Harvin that much different than Ginn or Desean. Their games look very similar to me.

I like him more than I liked Ginn or DeSean. Ginn was a long-legged straight line speed guy with limited short area quickness. Jackson has plenty of quickness, but he's not built nearly as thick as Harvin. IMO Harvin is a very good WR prospect. He might not be better than DHB/Crabtree/Maclin, but he's easily better at this stage of his career than anyone in the 2008 draft. His usage has been gimmicky, but here's what stands out to me about him:

- Blazing speed and a very smooth stride

- Sick quickness, burst, and natural athleticism

- Runs crisp routes

- Catches the ball with his hands

I see shades of Eddie Royal in the sense that people are getting too hung up on the college usage and the return skills without looking at the football player. Harvin is a fantastic prospect in PPR leagues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A34up1pGP84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZGxEZfOvk

The 1st portion on Ginn simply isn't true. The guy has fantastic short area quickness, always has. Also, Harvin is probably a better athlete than anyone else out there but to say he is better at this stage of his career as a potential NFL WRs is a huge exaggeration IMO. None of the highlights you posted show crisp routes BTW. He ran a couple of quick slants that were rounded off as he came in motion and simply out athleted the guys on the field. He runs good routes for a RB, but that doesn't mean he will as a WR and I've seen nothing from him thus far to prove that he can. Again, I'm not saying he never will be able to.

We'll agree to disagree on Ginn. He's a long-strider. Great speed. Good return man. Not much else. I'd gladly trade him for Harvin in PPR dynasty if I had the opportunity. Anyhow, the NFL doesn't draft on accomplishments alone. They draft on potential. Look at Ronnie Brown. Number two back on his college team. Number two pick in the NFL. You have to look beyond the college usage and try to determine if the player in question has the skills to perform at the NFL level. So to me, the fact that Harvin has been used in a gadget role in college is largely irrelevant. What I want to know is this: does he have the skills to thrive at the pro level?

I say yes. He has all of the physical gifts and football skills needed to be a very good pro WR. I don't care that he "hasn't done it yet." Neither had Anquan Boldin or Eddie Royal. But guess what? They were GREAT athletes and GREAT football players. They made a seamless transition to a full-time WR role in the NFL. I expect Harvin to do the same.

I'm by no means an expert on the matter and am not nearly as knowledgable as most of those commenting here but as both a Gator and a Phin I feel compelled to comment on this.I think that Harvin is a better pro prospect than Ginn. Harvin definately has better hands and he plays with a willingness to push for the extra yard that Ginn does not. Ginn's propensity to shy away from contact is frustrating at times, ducking out of bounds a yard away from the 1st down marker, while Harvin's legs always seem to be churning as he hits a defender - that isn't to say that Harvin doesn't also dip out of bounds at times, but he does it in more appropriate situations. Also, while both players have excellent speed I feel that Harvin is much shiftier and is better at setting up his blocks than Ginn who's speed seems to be much more straight-line in nature.

As for the Royal comparisons, I think it's a fair one, but as someone commented above Harvin's routes are not quite as polished. Overall though I think Harvin will be a solid NFL player and a great value in rookie drafts as many pass over him for bigger WR's that seem to fit the stud mold more accurately. I could see him sliding to early 2nd, where I would grab him without hesitation.

I respect both of your opinions on the matter, but Ginn wasn't a top 10 overall pick by accident no matter how many people (Mia fans who were booing included) want to think that is the case. I would be totally shocked if Harvin were a top 10 pick and surprised if he was even in the top half of the 1st round as well. I'd have to disagree with you that Harvin has better hands. Though I must say I think the 2 are about equal in that aspect so there isn't really a distinct advantage to Ginn either. I've also noticed that nearly all of what you are saying you like about Harvin more than Ginn is something you would look for in a RB (the position that he basically does play at Florida) and not a WR. Which is pretty much my point. You are right in that Harvin is more impressive in those areas and is a dynamic college player. I am talking in reference to Harvin playing WR in the NFL, not RB.

Ginn should not have gone with the 9th pick, pretty much everyone was shocked when he did. He was chosen at that spot by a completely inept Doplphins staff and managment a full 14 spots ahead of Bowe (a much better prospect, IMO) when we had a slew of greater needs to adress. I dont think that a comparison of draft position vs. likely draft position holds much value in the comparison of these two players. Whatever the case, three year's into each player's career I'd rather have Harvin on both my NFL team and FF team than Ginn.

This is flawed logic. So is Calvin not nearly as good because he was drafted by an even worse staff and management crew? Also, you have no way of knowing that Ginn would not have been drafted ahead of Bowe by the 13 other teams that picked anyway. Contrary to what fans may think, NFL teams do not reach as drastically as you like to think they do. If Mia had reason to believe they could trade down 15 spots and still land Ginn they would have done so.

 

[plastik]

This is flawed logic. So is Calvin not nearly as good because he was drafted by an even worse staff and management crew? Also, you have no way of knowing that Ginn would not have been drafted ahead of Bowe by the 13 other teams that picked anyway. Contrary to what fans may think, NFL teams do not reach as drastically as you like to think they do. If Mia had reason to believe they could trade down 15 spots and still land Ginn they would have done so.

I was only trying to say that the differential in Ginns draft position and Harvin's probable draft position is not particuularly important to the discussion. I agree with EBF on Harvin, and hope that many continue to undervalue his abilities. We'll see how evryone feels after the SEC championship game where Harvin takes a pair to the house! By the way... looking back to the pre draft player rankings in 2007, Bob Sorter's compilation of a number of sources put Ginn around #24 overall in the class. He was by no means a consensus top-10 choice.

 

[Biabreakable]

This is flawed logic. So is Calvin not nearly as good because he was drafted by an even worse staff and management crew? Also, you have no way of knowing that Ginn would not have been drafted ahead of Bowe by the 13 other teams that picked anyway. Contrary to what fans may think, NFL teams do not reach as drastically as you like to think they do. If Mia had reason to believe they could trade down 15 spots and still land Ginn they would have done so.

I was only trying to say that the differential in Ginns draft position and Harvin's probable draft position is not particuularly important to the discussion. I agree with EBF on Harvin, and hope that many continue to undervalue his abilities. We'll see how evryone feels after the SEC championship game where Harvin takes a pair to the house! By the way... looking back to the pre draft player rankings in 2007, Bob Sorter's compilation of a number of sources put Ginn around #24 overall in the class. He was by no means a consensus top-10 choice.

This is correct about Ginn. He had a lot of hype surrounding him but only a few of the hundereds of scouting publications considered him a top 10 prospect. The few that did have a lot less research behind them than the majority and made the ranking based off of the Ginn hype imho.I think Anthony Gonzalez is a better and more complete WR than Ginn is and many scouting publications did not have him rated as a 1st round pick (most of them early 2nd round prospect). What this tells me is that the scouting publications as a whole were caught up in the Ginn hype, it is just that the ones with more research and analysis behind their predictions were not as caught up in the hype surrounding Ginn as the fewer less researched publications.

It was a suprise to everyone when Ginn was taken by Miami with the 9th overall pick. The pick was a reach pure and simple and the people who made that decision lost their jobs.

As far as the Lions making a good decision on Calvin Johnson as an argument for the Dolphins choosing Ginn. I am not sure if I have seen a more flimsy straw man argument as that in awhile. And we just came out of a presidental election. That same Lions front office used top 10 draft picks on Charles Rodgers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams in a very short time frame. This is the same team owned by the Ford family who has been running a unsuccessful car company for decades. Just because they got a pick right one out of 4 times, on such a no brainer pick as Calvin Johnson does not justify the Dolphins reaching on Ginn.

As far as the Dolphins being able to trade down and pick Ginn later. Yeah they should have done that if Ginn is who they really wanted. The 2007 draft was very deep and talented however and many teams were content to stay put and let the draft come to them. The way I see the Dolphins decision to draft Ginn in retrospect is that they let the pressure get the better of them. They couldn't get a trade from anyone that would give them blockbusting value on the deal. No one wanted Brady Quinn that bad (including the Dolphins). AD and Calvin were gone. The best 2 OTs and DEs were gone and Jamarcus Russell was gone (don't think he should have been picked 1st overall but it was the Raiders.. so go figure).

What Miami SHOULD have done is taken Pat Willis or Amobi Okoye (who were drafted right after Ginn). But I think they got caught up in feeling the need to get a difference making offensive player to excite the fan base and hopefully save their jobs. So they gambled on Ginn and lost. It was a bad choice and they got fired for it. End of story.

 

[super sleeper]

You guys need to find some room in your discussion of WRs for Kenny Britt. When all is said and done, he will be in the conversation with Crabtree, Maclin, and Heyward-Bey as the top WR prospect in the draft, and he might be the best of them all. What he is doing this year has gone mostly unnoticed because Rutgers got off to a terrible start, but he's a 6'4" 220 LB. receiver with breakaway speed. He's putting up Crabtree numbers in an offense that is no where near as proficient as Texas Tech.

 

[EBF]

You guys need to find some room in your discussion of WRs for Kenny Britt. When all is said and done, he will be in the conversation with Crabtree, Maclin, and Heyward-Bey as the top WR prospect in the draft, and he might be the best of them all. What he is doing this year has gone mostly unnoticed because Rutgers got off to a terrible start, but he's a 6'4" 220 LB. receiver with breakaway speed. He's putting up Crabtree numbers in an offense that is no where near as proficient as Texas Tech.

He'll be a top 100 pick and possibly even a top 30-50 pick, but I don't think he's one the top 4-5 receivers in the class.

 

[broncofan13000]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

 

[EBF]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

Meh. I don't think he looks very good. He's no better than the 7th-8th best back in this class IMO.

 

[broncofan13000]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

Meh. I don't think he looks very good. He's no better than the 7th-8th best back in this class IMO.

Looks great out there to me. Sure he has had some nice holes to run through, but he's showing explosion, and nice moves in the open field...He may not be a top 5 back this year (who knows if he even comes out), but we got to remember he is coming off a serious knee injury (not an injury that affects his future performance, but possibly his confidence earlier in the year). You seem to like how Spiller projects to the NFL, yet down on Murray...they seem pretty similar to me.

 

[EBF]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

Meh. I don't think he looks very good. He's no better than the 7th-8th best back in this class IMO.

Looks great out there to me. Sure he has had some nice holes to run through, but he's showing explosion, and nice moves in the open field...He may not be a top 5 back this year (who knows if he even comes out), but we got to remember he is coming off a serious knee injury (not an injury that affects his future performance, but possibly his confidence earlier in the year). You seem to like how Spiller projects to the NFL, yet down on Murray...they seem pretty similar to me.

He's athletic enough to excel on a great offense at the college level, but I'm not very high on his NFL potential. He has a bad body, he doesn't run with much power, and I don't like the way he cuts (he's all legs). I'll be surprised if he becomes a starter in the NFL.Spiller is a different animal. He's not a classic three down back either, but I think he has a lot more pop in his legs and much more playing speed. I think he can be a weapon in the right system at the next level.

 

[jurb26]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

Meh. I don't think he looks very good. He's no better than the 7th-8th best back in this class IMO.

Looks great out there to me. Sure he has had some nice holes to run through, but he's showing explosion, and nice moves in the open field...He may not be a top 5 back this year (who knows if he even comes out), but we got to remember he is coming off a serious knee injury (not an injury that affects his future performance, but possibly his confidence earlier in the year). You seem to like how Spiller projects to the NFL, yet down on Murray...they seem pretty similar to me.

He's athletic enough to excel on a great offense at the college level, but I'm not very high on his NFL potential. He has a bad body, he doesn't run with much power, and I don't like the way he cuts (he's all legs). I'll be surprised if he becomes a starter in the NFL.Spiller is a different animal. He's not a classic three down back either, but I think he has a lot more pop in his legs and much more playing speed. I think he can be a weapon in the right system at the next level.

As the guys in the booth drool over his power....You don't like the way he cuts? Why, you don't like watching defenders break their ankles?

 

[EBF]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

Meh. I don't think he looks very good. He's no better than the 7th-8th best back in this class IMO.

Looks great out there to me. Sure he has had some nice holes to run through, but he's showing explosion, and nice moves in the open field...He may not be a top 5 back this year (who knows if he even comes out), but we got to remember he is coming off a serious knee injury (not an injury that affects his future performance, but possibly his confidence earlier in the year). You seem to like how Spiller projects to the NFL, yet down on Murray...they seem pretty similar to me.

He's athletic enough to excel on a great offense at the college level, but I'm not very high on his NFL potential. He has a bad body, he doesn't run with much power, and I don't like the way he cuts (he's all legs). I'll be surprised if he becomes a starter in the NFL.Spiller is a different animal. He's not a classic three down back either, but I think he has a lot more pop in his legs and much more playing speed. I think he can be a weapon in the right system at the next level.

As the guys in the booth drool over his power....

There's a slight difference between running hard against pimple-faced kids fresh out of high school and running hard against professional athletes who were all the best player on their college team. Murray is a good college player. Good college players have good games against college teams. Nevertheless, only a fraction of them become quality players in the NFL. To become a starting tailback in the NFL, you basically have to be one of the 32 best RBs in the entire world. Is Murray that good? Probably not. I see four guys in this class alone who will almost certainly be picked higher by the NFL:

Chris Wells

Knowshon Moreno

LeSean McCoy

Shonn Greene

I would lump Murray in with guys like:

CJ Spiller

Charles Scott

Javon Ringer

Stafon Johnson

James Davis

etc

At best he's probably the 5th-6th best back in this class. Ripping it up against amateur competition doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. The jump up to the NFL level is a big one.

 

[jurb26]

Demarco Murray is looking sweet in primetime

Meh. I don't think he looks very good. He's no better than the 7th-8th best back in this class IMO.

Looks great out there to me. Sure he has had some nice holes to run through, but he's showing explosion, and nice moves in the open field...He may not be a top 5 back this year (who knows if he even comes out), but we got to remember he is coming off a serious knee injury (not an injury that affects his future performance, but possibly his confidence earlier in the year). You seem to like how Spiller projects to the NFL, yet down on Murray...they seem pretty similar to me.

He's athletic enough to excel on a great offense at the college level, but I'm not very high on his NFL potential. He has a bad body, he doesn't run with much power, and I don't like the way he cuts (he's all legs). I'll be surprised if he becomes a starter in the NFL.Spiller is a different animal. He's not a classic three down back either, but I think he has a lot more pop in his legs and much more playing speed. I think he can be a weapon in the right system at the next level.

As the guys in the booth drool over his power....

There's a slight difference between running hard against pimple-faced kids fresh out of high school and running hard against professional athletes who were all the best player on their college team. Murray is a good college player. Good college players have good games against college teams. Nevertheless, only a fraction of them become quality players in the NFL. To become a starting tailback in the NFL, you basically have to be one of the 32 best RBs in the entire world. Is Murray that good? Probably not. I see four guys in this class alone who will almost certainly be picked higher by the NFL:

Chris Wells

Knowshon Moreno

LeSean McCoy

Shonn Greene

I would lump Murray in with guys like:

CJ Spiller

Charles Scott

Javon Ringer

Stafon Johnson

James Davis

etc

At best he's probably the 5th-6th best back in this class. Ripping it up against amateur competition doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. The jump up to the NFL level is a big one.

Nice backtrack. This same thing can be said for any guy on this list and any college player to ever come out.

 

[EBF]

Nice backtrack. This same thing can be said for any guy on this list and any college player to ever come out.

Right, except there are guys on that list who have impressed me a lot more than Murray. What I said in the Harvin discussion also applies here. You have to look beyond the college production and evaluate the athlete. When I watch Murray, I don't come away with the feeling that I'm watching a starting caliber NFL tailback.

 

[jurb26]

Nice backtrack. This same thing can be said for any guy on this list and any college player to ever come out.

Right, except there are guys on that list who have impressed me a lot more than Murray. What I said in the Harvin discussion also applies here. You have to look beyond the college production and evaluate the athlete. When I watch Murray, I don't come away with the feeling that I'm watching a starting caliber NFL tailback.

That's pretty comforting given your recent success rate.

 

[Tornacl]

Lots of discussion on Harvin, here's my $.02:

I think that he'll end up being a good pro receiver, and a defensive coordinator's nightmare, but he'll be a very frustrating fantasy WR. I think the Santana Moss comparison will be pretty accurate, as Santana Moss is a "feast or famine" kind of guy. I think Harvin will be similar, where he'll be just as likely to get 3 points as 30 points, and you'll never be able to predict based on matchups. But since this draft will likely be very thin, there aren't too many guys I'll take before him in the hopes that he pans out, since he's got such great potential.

 

[Biabreakable]

But since this draft will likely be very thin

What makes you think this?I am not sure about the QBs yet but this draft looks like it will offer some quality skill position players at both RB and WR.

 

[jurb26]

But since this draft will likely be very thin

What makes you think this?I am not sure about the QBs yet but this draft looks like it will offer some quality skill position players at both RB and WR.

This draft won't be thin at all.

 

[FUBAR]

Lots of discussion on Harvin, here's my $.02:I think that he'll end up being a good pro receiver, and a defensive coordinator's nightmare, but he'll be a very frustrating fantasy WR. I think the Santana Moss comparison will be pretty accurate, as Santana Moss is a "feast or famine" kind of guy. I think Harvin will be similar, where he'll be just as likely to get 3 points as 30 points, and you'll never be able to predict based on matchups. But since this draft will likely be very thin, there aren't too many guys I'll take before him in the hopes that he pans out, since he's got such great potential.

Harvin's one of the guys where I think situation makes a huge difference. If he gets drafted by a team with a good QB and creative coordinator/HC, I think he can do extremely well (DeSean Jackson type). If he gets drafted by a team whose QB is inaccurate and the offense bland, he's a bad pick at least for the short term. IOW, if he's a Lion or Raider, I'm staying away; if he's a Cowboy or Saint, my interest increases moreso than for other players.

 

[FUBAR]

But since this draft will likely be very thin

What makes you think this?I am not sure about the QBs yet but this draft looks like it will offer some quality skill position players at both RB and WR.

This draft won't be thin at all.

I'm not seeing where anyone can say it is, if they're paying attention. in FF terms:QB: at least 3 QBs may be worth mid 1st round picks - not quite as good as 2008, but very good anywayRB: no fewer than 5 very good prospects, top 2 picks plus a few more in the 1st - at this point it looks as good as 2008, although the 2008 backs have excelled and the 09 backs probably won't hit as highWR: at least 4 1st round pick level players, a couple with truly elite potential - better potentially than 2008, but again, the 08 WRs have excelled beyond what we thought they wouldTE: a couple starting caliber players - about the same as 2008D: There's some darn good playmakers available, better than last year IMOWhen you contrast 08 vs. 09, potentially 09 is better, but the 08 class has gone beyond anyone's expectations; might the 09 class do the same?

 

[jurb26]

But since this draft will likely be very thin

What makes you think this?I am not sure about the QBs yet but this draft looks like it will offer some quality skill position players at both RB and WR.

This draft won't be thin at all.

I'm not seeing where anyone can say it is, if they're paying attention. in FF terms:QB: at least 3 QBs may be worth mid 1st round picks - not quite as good as 2008, but very good anywayRB: no fewer than 5 very good prospects, top 2 picks plus a few more in the 1st - at this point it looks as good as 2008, although the 2008 backs have excelled and the 09 backs probably won't hit as highWR: at least 4 1st round pick level players, a couple with truly elite potential - better potentially than 2008, but again, the 08 WRs have excelled beyond what we thought they wouldTE: a couple starting caliber players - about the same as 2008D: There's some darn good playmakers available, better than last year IMOWhen you contrast 08 vs. 09, potentially 09 is better, but the 08 class has gone beyond anyone's expectations; might the 09 class do the same?

This class is also going to be much better on the Oline, particularly at T. Far deeper and have more playmakers at LB and offer the best CB prospect in years.

 

[SayWhat?]

I know there's always a lot of talk this time of the year from players that haven't yet had their draft stock assessed with dollar signs laid out in front of them, but this would be a pretty big hit to 2009 rookie drafts.

LeSean McCoy Intends to Return for Junior Year

Anyone have any further insight? Posturing on his part? Sincerity and legit reasons to pass up a big payday with a rookie salary cap looming?

 

[EBF]

I know there's always a lot of talk this time of the year from players that haven't yet had their draft stock assessed with dollar signs laid out in front of them, but this would be a pretty big hit to 2009 rookie drafts.

LeSean McCoy Intends to Return for Junior Year

Anyone have any further insight? Posturing on his part? Sincerity and legit reasons to pass up a big payday with a rookie salary cap looming?

I'll be surprised if he comes back. I had heard that he had basically decided to enter the draft even before the season started.

 

[moderated]

I know there's always a lot of talk this time of the year from players that haven't yet had their draft stock assessed with dollar signs laid out in front of them, but this would be a pretty big hit to 2009 rookie drafts.

LeSean McCoy Intends to Return for Junior Year

Anyone have any further insight? Posturing on his part? Sincerity and legit reasons to pass up a big payday with a rookie salary cap looming?

I'll be surprised if he comes back. I had heard that he had basically decided to enter the draft even before the season started.

He's gone if he's projected in the 1st round, which he almost surely will be.

Out of all the draft eligible top RB's his returning would be the most shocking. He's so full of *&*& saying he's returning it's funny.

 

[Chachi]

I know there's always a lot of talk this time of the year from players that haven't yet had their draft stock assessed with dollar signs laid out in front of them, but this would be a pretty big hit to 2009 rookie drafts.

LeSean McCoy Intends to Return for Junior Year

Anyone have any further insight? Posturing on his part? Sincerity and legit reasons to pass up a big payday with a rookie salary cap looming?

I'll be surprised if he comes back. I had heard that he had basically decided to enter the draft even before the season started.

He's gone if he's projected in the 1st round, which he almost surely will be.

Out of all the draft eligible top RB's his returning would be the most shocking. He's so full of *&*& saying he's returning it's funny.

I agree he's full of *&*& saying he's returning. I think he might actually believe it but the second a guy sits him down and says "LeSean, how does 10 million bucks guarenteed sound" he'll change his tune, and if he doesn't then he's not the brightest bulb.

 

[Frank Costanza's Lawyer]

 

[MAC_32]

(assuming Sam Bradford does not declare) Nate Davis is the best QB prospect in the 2009 draft.

Detailed analysis to come after tonight's game, the MAC Championship, and their Bowl game.

If I forget, send me a message and remind me.

 

[FUBAR]

(assuming Sam Bradford does not declare) Nate Davis is the best QB prospect in the 2009 draft.Detailed analysis to come after tonight's game, the MAC Championship, and their Bowl game.If I forget, send me a message and remind me.

I almost wish you wouldn't, as I'm aiming to snag him in my leagues.

 

[TopDawg]

After todays game LeSean McCoy may want to retract his earlier statement of staying in school another year.

The way he played today just made the cash register yell out Cha-Ching...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It seems to me that a lot of guys here are doing too much judging of Harvin based on the statbox and highlight reels, and too little based on his actual play.

For a guy who has moved back and forth a bit, Harvin has the ball skills of a guy that's been playing nothing but pure WR for the entirety of his career, if not better. He adjusts to the ball in the air as well as any of the best receivers we've seen come out, you just don't see it as often because nobody is going to show a highlight of him making a nice adjustment on a 14 yard pass when they could show an 80 yard run instead. Early in his career I was often shocked at his ability to adjust to the ball and make catches in traffic while the defender gets lost because, like many here STILL seem to think, I thought he was just a guy with fast wheels.

He could run a bit better routes, but that is coachable. The stuff that is not coachable like speed and the way he reacts to the ball in the air is already there.

I think you guys are missing the boat on this one. Only time will tell.