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2010 MLB TEAM SEASON WIN TOTALS (1 Viewer)

:rolleyes:

Didn't see a thread.

This is always money, if you listen to the right folks.

Guys in the know, hook us up, please. What's going on with your team(s)?

ETA lines...



ANGELS WINS o84½-115

ANGELS WINS u84½-115

ASTROS WINS o73½-115

ASTROS WINS u73½-115

ATHLETICS WINS o78-115

ATHLETICS WINS u78-115

BLUE JAYS WINS o70½+105

BLUE JAYS WINS u70½-135

BRAVES o86-115

BRAVES u86-115

BREWERS WINS o81-115

BREWERS WINS u81-115

CARDINALS WINS o88½-125

CARDINALS WINS u88½-105

CUBS WINS o83½-130

CUBS WINS u83½EV

DBACKS WINS o82½-125

DBACKS WINS u82½-105

DODGERS WINS o85½-115

DODGERS WINS u85½-115

GIANTS WINS o82½-145

GIANTS WINS u82½+115

INDIANS WINS o74½EV

INDIANS WINS u74½-130

MARINERS WINS o83½-150

MARINERS WINS u83½+120

MARLINS WINS o81-125

MARLINS WINS u81-105

METS WINS o81½-135

METS WINS u81½+105

NATIONALS WINS o70½-135

NATIONALS WINS u70½+105

ORIOLES WINS o74-115

ORIOLES WINS u74-115

PADRES WINS o71-105

PADRES WINS u71-125

PHILLIES WINS o93-125

PHILLIES WINS u93-105

PIRATES WINS o69½-110

PIRATES WINS u69½-120

RANGERS WINS o83½-140

RANGERS WINS u83½+110

RAYS WINS o89-115

RAYS WINS u89-115

REDS WINS o80-115

REDS WINS u80-115

RED SOX WINS o94½-115

RED SOX WINS u94½-115

ROCKIES WINS o84½-115

ROCKIES WINS u84½-115

ROYALS WINS o71½-115

ROYALS WINS u71½-115

TIGERS WINS o80½-115

TIGERS WINS u80½-115

TWINS WINS o82½-115

TWINS WINS u82½-115

WHITE SOX WINS o83½-125

WHITE SOX WINS u83½-105

YANKEES WINS o96-115

YANKEES WINS u96-115

;) :banned: :thumbup:

 
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Love the sox under 94.5
And I would LOVE to make that bet. Give us some reasons, if you don't mind. We know they're overvalued, what else?
Tough division, tough interleague(extra west coast trip plus six vs. the Phils) and their offense seems to be in a transitional decline. After Youkillus and VMart, and you could argue the top 4 including Ellsbury and Pedroia, there are holes up and down the lineup. Beltre, Cameron, JD Drew, Ortiz can all be pitched to now. Pitching should be strong, great top 3(albeit with three guys who've had various durability issues), but after that, Bucholz has been inconsistent but I think he might actually perform, Dice K and Wakefield continually to be chronically dinged, Tazawa is hurt, Masterson is gone, Bard was superman until choking one up to the Yankees, and I don't know, overall, I don't feel good about them.88 win team to me.Edit to change Saito to Tazawa
 
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Love the sox under 94.5
And I would LOVE to make that bet. Give us some reasons, if you don't mind. We know they're overvalued, what else?
Tough division, tough interleague(extra west coast trip plus six vs. the Phils) and their offense seems to be in a transitional decline. After Youkillus and VMart, and you could argue the top 4 including Ellsbury and Pedroia, there are holes up and down the lineup. Beltre, Cameron, JD Drew, Ortiz can all be pitched to now. Pitching should be strong, great top 3(albeit with three guys who've had various durability issues), but after that, Bucholz has been inconsistent but I think he might actually perform, Dice K and Wakefield continually to be chronically dinged, Tazawa is hurt, Masterson is gone, Bard was superman until choking one up to the Yankees, and I don't know, overall, I don't feel good about them.88 win team to me.Edit to change Saito to Tazawa
Moops is gonna be pissed.
 
I like the over 86 wins for the Braves they have a lot of power on offense with Heyward, Glaus, Jones, McClouth, McCann, Cabrera, Escobar, Prado, and Diaz. They're pitching is also great and Hudson looks like he has recovered from Tommy John surgery and looks to be in good condition Hudson, Hanson, Lowe, and Jurrjens are all good pitchers and a great closer in Wagner. If they can all stay healthy, not only look for an over, but also look for them to possibly win the NL east.

 
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Boston Under

Phillies Over

I dont know alot about the really bad teams, so i dont know if the numbers for teams like Pitt, KC, SD ect are any good.

 
Boston UnderPhillies OverI dont know alot about the really bad teams, so i dont know if the numbers for teams like Pitt, KC, SD ect are any good.
I would stay away from the Phillies. I think they are gonna be right at 93. The problem with them is their bullpen is a mess right now, and the Braves, Mets and Marlins should all be pretty good this year so their division games will be much tougher then last year, even though I think overall they will be a better team.
 
Boston UnderPhillies OverI dont know alot about the really bad teams, so i dont know if the numbers for teams like Pitt, KC, SD ect are any good.
I would stay away from the Phillies. I think they are gonna be right at 93. The problem with them is their bullpen is a mess right now, and the Braves, Mets and Marlins should all be pretty good this year so their division games will be much tougher then last year, even though I think overall they will be a better team.
i just think their lineup and starting staff will be tremendous. Halladay's ERA in the NL is going to be absurd. If Hamels is what he should be, that team is gonna be on cruise control by august.
 
Boston UnderPhillies OverI dont know alot about the really bad teams, so i dont know if the numbers for teams like Pitt, KC, SD ect are any good.
I would stay away from the Phillies. I think they are gonna be right at 93. The problem with them is their bullpen is a mess right now, and the Braves, Mets and Marlins should all be pretty good this year so their division games will be much tougher then last year, even though I think overall they will be a better team.
I agree with the Braves and Marlins being pretty good, but the Mets won't sniff .500 with that pitching staff. Outside of Santana, they have the one of the worst staffs in baseball IMO. They better plan on winning a lot of 10-8 games if they are going to compete for a playoff spot and I don't see that happening either. Philly is the class of the NL. They'll win the division by 5+ games again this season.I haven't taken a close enough look at some of these over/unders. I'll post a few that I like before Monday.
 
yeah, not a mets fan this year at all. They'll need Beltran, Reyes and Wright to mash all year long to even sniff .500. The rest of that team just stinks.

How any baseball man thought giving Luis castillo a multi-year dear was a good idea just baffles me. He was mediocre at best back when he was stealing 40 bases a year. Now he's basically a HS player out there.

 
Just after a quick look, a few I like are The Giants, White Sox, and Orioles over. I'd be a bit hesitant on the Orioles because of their division though. I do think they have a good thing going and are a team on the come. I like Seattle over, but this Cliff Lee thing worries me a little. I also worry about their offense. Milton Bradley hitting clean-up? Pass.

I like the Mets and Blue Jays as unders. Going to be a long year for Toronto. Bad team in a rough division. They could easily lose 100 games.

 
Boston UnderPhillies OverI dont know alot about the really bad teams, so i dont know if the numbers for teams like Pitt, KC, SD ect are any good.
Typically those numbers (for bad teams) are pretty good, if you are betting ON them (the overs) -- meaning they know the public is much more inclined to bet against these (bad) teams, pushing their win totals even lower. Conversely, the big names, like you-know-who, are inflated. So usually you're better off taking a contrarian approach to totals, in any sport.Yeah, that Boston under, looks like I'll be betting that one.
 
Without even looking into it yet, my gut tells me the Giants surprise this year. I remember thinking that at the end of last year. Over 82 1/2 for them...

And the Dodgers under 85 1/2. I hate to say it because I've been a Dodgers fan all my life but I'm nervous about this season. I won't bet against 'em, I can find someone else, but I could see a tumultuous year with all that's going on. And all that didn't happen in the off-season. Hope not.

Those two are kind of correlated.

ETA, I hadn't even looked at the Dodgers total yet. It's actually much lower than I presumed so all their question marks are in that line. And weren't they slated for like 91 last year? Pretty big drop. Stay away.

 
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yeah, not a mets fan this year at all. They'll need Beltran, Reyes and Wright to mash all year long to even sniff .500. The rest of that team just stinks. How any baseball man thought giving Luis castillo a multi-year dear was a good idea just baffles me. He was mediocre at best back when he was stealing 40 bases a year. Now he's basically a HS player out there.
ReyesBeltranWrightBayFrancoeurThat's a solid lead off and middle of the order. Compared to last year where you had Alex Cora, Gary Sheffield, Fernando Tatis in the lineup. And the Phillies seem to always have problems with crappy pitchers.
 
yeah, not a mets fan this year at all. They'll need Beltran, Reyes and Wright to mash all year long to even sniff .500. The rest of that team just stinks. How any baseball man thought giving Luis castillo a multi-year dear was a good idea just baffles me. He was mediocre at best back when he was stealing 40 bases a year. Now he's basically a HS player out there.
ReyesBeltranWrightBayFrancoeurThat's a solid lead off and middle of the order. Compared to last year where you had Alex Cora, Gary Sheffield, Fernando Tatis in the lineup. And the Phillies seem to always have problems with crappy pitchers.
Halladay might win 25 in the NL with that lineup behind him.
 
Snotbubbles said:
TLEF316 said:
yeah, not a mets fan this year at all. They'll need Beltran, Reyes and Wright to mash all year long to even sniff .500. The rest of that team just stinks. How any baseball man thought giving Luis castillo a multi-year dear was a good idea just baffles me. He was mediocre at best back when he was stealing 40 bases a year. Now he's basically a HS player out there.
ReyesBeltranWrightBayFrancoeurThat's a solid lead off and middle of the order. Compared to last year where you had Alex Cora, Gary Sheffield, Fernando Tatis in the lineup. And the Phillies seem to always have problems with crappy pitchers.
I just think the Mets are banking on too much to go right to be a contender this year. Reyes appears that he's close to being ready to go, but I'm still worried about his hamstring. Who knows about Beltran? Will Wright be able to return to a legit 30+ HR guy in that park? Francoeur is OK. Bay is solid. Like I said earlier, they are going to have to be a top 5 offense at least to be competitive. Their 2-5 starters in their rotation just aren't good enough. I think they did a poor job in the offseason addressing (or not addressing) their pitching.
 
Leroy Hoard said:
CUBS WINS u83½EVJust seems like they are usually overbet for the results they end up with.
ill take the over this year for the cubs. one of the few years they arent overvalued IMO. play in a weak division. the cardinals are over rated, and so are the reds. pirates and brewers are less than impressive. alot of the cubs problems were injuries and bradley. saying that i would also take the cardinals over 88.
 
Somebody in the FFA posted (in a gambling thread) to take the Twins under, right after Nathan went down. Wish I had listened because they were at 84 1/2. They finally lowered it 2 games, but a little late.

Someone was also talking about the Twins home-field advantage dropping this first year in a new park. Fair point.

 
From Chad Millman's ESPN insider blog today

The future is preordained, people. It's written in Sanskrit on cave walls and etched in stone tablets. The Mayans have their version of what will happen next. Nostradamus has one, too. Even wise guys think they can see tomorrow. Of course, the bonus of believing in the wise guys is that, in their future, the world doesn't come to an inglorious, apocalyptic end. At the most, I might lose a few bucks if the Cardinals don't win more than 88.5 games.And that brings us to our featured topic for today: What to do about baseball futures. With opening day just days away -- assuming the Mayans see us making it 'til the weekend -- the betting boards from Vegas to Antigua are popping with season win totals, odds to win the World Series and who will win the home run title.Futures are great ways for die-hard fans to get a stake in the season and put their money behind their passion. Like those poor squares who always bet on the Cubs to win the World Series (Hey, Bubbee. Wrigley still look good from your apartment?). But futures also give seamheads the opportunity to cash in where they think they see an opportunity. Because it is so stat driven, no sport has more know-it-all fans than baseball. And they're all sure about whether the Pirates will find their rhythm or Grady Sizemore will bounce back. They have the charts and spreadsheets to prove it.Although, for comparison's sake, it's worth noting how irrelevant baseball futures betting is compared to the NFL. At Lucky's in Vegas, Jimmy Vaccaro has a menu of options that includes season win totals, futures, most hits, most home runs and even the first team to get to 80 wins. It's a full buffet. And Jimmy's old school Vegas. He is not afraid to take a big bet at long odds. But he says his baseball props and futures action is about a quarter of what it is for the NFL (that's common around town and off shore). So far this year he's written about $40,000 worth of tickets on season wins (sharps are playing the Indians, under; Mariners; over) and futures and another $50K or so on the other props. "Most of that was in the first week or so, then it died down," he says. "With football, we're writing constantly and it's freaking March."That early action is all wise guy money. And the sharps have the same material as the civilian baseball nerds. Only they're not betting because they're fans or because they want to prove some cooked up theory about players with six years of big league service who are 27 years old, have two L's in their name and come from below the Mason-Dixon line. They do it to make some dough.A wise guy I know named Tim Trushel, who runs sportsmemo.com is a long time season wins total player. I like listening to Tim talk about strategy. Even if he doesn't always win, he always makes sense. It's like hearing a really good analyst break down quarterly numbers. "We have every major league team in a spread sheet along with how many wins they have each year, going back to 1950," he says. "What I look for immediately is a simple formula: Who are the greatest improvers and decliners on a year to year basis. Then when totals come out I look and see how the market is projecting certain teams and I find a pattern. Look at the Cardinals total of 88.5. Last year they won 91 games, but in three previous seasons they won 86, 78, 83. So in three of the previous four seasons they didn't eclipse that win mark of 88.5 games. Even with the addition of Matt Holliday -- whose splits away from Coors make me wonder if he will have that great of an impact -- they are generally relying on the same guys they always have. To me everything has to go right for them to get 89 or 90 wins."Meanwhile, a team Tim really likes to top the over is the Indians at 74.5. An important factor when determining season totals is strength of schedule. You may love the Orioles, but do you love them enough to go over their season win total when they have to spend the season playing the Red Sox, Rays and Yanks? Not likely, no matter how good Matt Wieters is. But, according to Trushel, the Indians team that tanked last year is primed for a rebound. "They are in a division that could be wide open, and they are built with a lot of good young players that I think will get better as the season progresses," he says. "A lot of their guys are on the right side of 28 years old and improving."The Indians are an interesting case study regarding another element Trushel considers for win totals: A team's payroll. Baseball is a long season. A lot of the guys you bet on to start the year won't be with the club at the end of the year. If you are betting on a team to go over, it's important to know if its ace is getting paid loads of dough and will be expendable if the team tanks. Like the Indians last year. On the flip side, if a team has payroll flexibility, keep that in your back pocket, too. The Angels unloaded some big contracts this year, but their owner doesn't mind spending. If his team is in contention at the All-Star break, will he push for a big money star to carry them over the top -- and over the over -- in the stretch run? (Trushel also looks to play unders on individual player props for fear of injuries costing him money. "A guy misses three weeks and there's no way he's reaching his over number," he says.)Now, like the Mayans or Nostradamus, everyone has a different opinion of the future. When I spoke with Richard Gardiner, the boss at bodog.com, he told me that his book was exposed at the Cardinals over 88.5 wins. In fact, it was Bodog's fifth highest liability. (The Rockies over 84.5 was the biggest, "It's getting a lot of sharp action," Gardiner said, with a Canadian accent so thick I thought he was going to reach through the phone and pull my jersey over my head for a tussle. The Rockies were also a popular pick at Lucky's for the first to 80 wins.)Paul Bessire of predictionmachine.com likes the Cardinals over, too. He played every game of the season more than 50,000 times in his super special simulation machine, and the Cards averaged 92.1 wins. Like Trushel, he's big on strength of schedule and doesn't see the NL Central being enough of a challenge to keep St. Louis from covering that bet.When Paul ran his machine for every team, the best consensus picks for season win totals were the under for the Nationals (70.5) and, wait for it, the Indians, at under 74.5. The Nats averaged just 64.8 wins and the Tribe just 69.4. "I get what the wise guy is saying about the Indians going over, and it makes sense," Paul says. "But I think the team that supports his theory most is the Royals. We like them to go over the 71.5 season win total being offered in most places a lot."Wow, the Royals, Indians and Nats are the best bets you can make? Maybe the Mayans had it right: The world must be coming to an end.What MLB Futures/Props are getting action at Bodog:World Series * • Chicago White Sox, opened 25-1, now 20-1 * • Minnesota Twins, opened 20-1, now 18-1 * • Colorado Rockies, 22-1Player Props * • Matt Garza, over 11 wins * • Grady Sizemore, over 25 HRs * • Justin Verlander, under 17 wins * • Scott Baker, under 15 winsWin Totals * • Colorado Rockies, over 84.5 * • Chicago Cubs, over 83.5 * • New York Yankees, over 95.5 * • Oakland Athletics, under 79.5 * • St. Louis Cardinals, over 88.5 * • Kansas City Royals, under 71.5
 
I'm really not sure why the Red Sox u94.5 total looks so appealing.

Last year the team won 95, two years back they won 95, three years ago they won 96...

Argument I hear is they play in a tough division. Sure they do, but they have the past 3 years, no?

When I handicap win totals, generally I prefer to look at pitching, pitching, defense, pitching and offense, in that order.

Red Sox starters are pretty strong, but their bullpen is even stronger. Their offense is not as good as years past, but their defense is quite a lot better.

To me, 94.5 looks like a pretty solid line.

 
Smack Tripper said:
Snotbubbles said:
TLEF316 said:
yeah, not a mets fan this year at all. They'll need Beltran, Reyes and Wright to mash all year long to even sniff .500. The rest of that team just stinks. How any baseball man thought giving Luis castillo a multi-year dear was a good idea just baffles me. He was mediocre at best back when he was stealing 40 bases a year. Now he's basically a HS player out there.
ReyesBeltranWrightBayFrancoeurThat's a solid lead off and middle of the order. Compared to last year where you had Alex Cora, Gary Sheffield, Fernando Tatis in the lineup. And the Phillies seem to always have problems with crappy pitchers.
Halladay might win 25 in the NL with that lineup behind him.
As much as I want to believe that, with the BP issues Roy might have to complete 20 games to get to 25 wins.
 
As much as I hate to say it, I like the Rockies over 84.5. They are very deep offensively, pretty good on defense, and have pretty good pitching. That's not a huge number, and I am generally not impressed with what the other teams in the division did. The Dodgers pitching is very questionable, I think the Giants traded defense for a prayer at increased offense (look for the Giants' pitchers to regress this year because of worse defense behind them), I don't like the DBacks' rotation without Webb, and the Padres are still trying to rebuild.

Edit to add some perspective, I'm a Giants honk, FWIW.

 
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As much as I hate to say it, I like the Rockies over 84.5. They are very deep offensively, pretty good on defense, and have pretty good pitching. That's not a huge number, and I am generally not impressed with what the other teams in the division did. The Dodgers pitching is very questionable, I think the Giants traded defense for a prayer at increased offense (look for the Giants' pitchers to regress this year because of worse defense behind them), I don't like the DBacks' rotation without Webb, and the Padres are still trying to rebuild.
:no: I'm actually suprised they are predicted at one game less than LA. I guess back to back NLCS gets you that respect. But I like the Rockies alot, I'm on them for about 90 wins, easily winning the division. I'm with a few others on the BoSox as well, and can't believe the Tribe will post more than 74 wins. :lmao:
 
Love the sox under 94.5
And I would LOVE to make that bet. Give us some reasons, if you don't mind. We know they're overvalued, what else?
Tough division, tough interleague(extra west coast trip plus six vs. the Phils) and their offense seems to be in a transitional decline. After Youkillus and VMart, and you could argue the top 4 including Ellsbury and Pedroia, there are holes up and down the lineup. Beltre, Cameron, JD Drew, Ortiz can all be pitched to now. Pitching should be strong, great top 3(albeit with three guys who've had various durability issues), but after that, Bucholz has been inconsistent but I think he might actually perform, Dice K and Wakefield continually to be chronically dinged, Tazawa is hurt, Masterson is gone, Bard was superman until choking one up to the Yankees, and I don't know, overall, I don't feel good about them.88 win team to me.Edit to change Saito to Tazawa
I suspect a full season of Martinez with Scutaro, Cameron, and Beltre = more runs than last year (replacing Bay, Varitek, Lowell, and a mess of no offense from various SS). And I also think the improved defense and the addition of Lackey will result in fewer runs allowed. Papi and A-Rod posted very similar totals from May 1st on last year (but the only think people remember is Ortiz' horrible start to the season).The issues for Boston will be that they again will come up empty against premium pitchers, they will beat the snots out of bad pitching on bad teams, and they will have stretched where they have a collective slump and can't score. That should give them a nice record again, but scoring 40 runs in 3 games against Cleveland doesn't make them a great team.I would guess that 95 wins is right around their total this year, like always, so I wouldn't bet that one either way.
 
guru_007 said:
I'm really not sure why the Red Sox u94.5 total looks so appealing.
Because 95 wins is a lot? You know that line is higher than it should be.
Last year the team won 95, two years back they won 95, three years ago they won 96...
Exactly, not much room to spare.
Argument I hear is they play in a tough division. Sure they do, but they have the past 3 years, no?
Not sure what that means; as in I don't think anybody sees it as an argument.
Red Sox starters are pretty strong, but their bullpen is even stronger. Their offense is not as good as years past, but their defense is quite a lot better.
Tell me more. Love Lackey this year, that guy will thrive in Boston. Don't know much about the rest of them yet, so fill me in.
To me, 94.5 looks like a pretty solid line.
Fair enough. Where would you rank them compared to those last 3 years you were talking about?
 
4x champ said:
commisholio said:
As much as I hate to say it, I like the Rockies over 84.5. They are very deep offensively, pretty good on defense, and have pretty good pitching. That's not a huge number, and I am generally not impressed with what the other teams in the division did. The Dodgers pitching is very questionable, I think the Giants traded defense for a prayer at increased offense (look for the Giants' pitchers to regress this year because of worse defense behind them), I don't like the DBacks' rotation without Webb, and the Padres are still trying to rebuild.
:blackdot: I'm actually suprised they are predicted at one game less than LA. I guess back to back NLCS gets you that respect. But I like the Rockies alot, I'm on them for about 90 wins, easily winning the division. I'm with a few others on the BoSox as well, and can't believe the Tribe will post more than 74 wins. :confused:
I like the Rockies this year like everyone else. Really, I like them and the Dodgers. I may bet both as they might both go over and its hard to imagine an scenerio where they both go under.The AL central is going to be really, REALLY bad. The Indians are a bad team, but not much worse than the teams they'll be playing all year. I think 74 is fair. It is still 14 games under .500 in the worst division in baseball.
 
Somebody in the FFA posted (in a gambling thread) to take the Twins under, right after Nathan went down. Wish I had listened because they were at 84 1/2. They finally lowered it 2 games, but a little late.Someone was also talking about the Twins home-field advantage dropping this first year in a new park. Fair point.
That was me and I forgot that I bet it :blackdot: Here's my listATL to win NL East +350CWS over 81.5 wins(-130)Pirates over 66.5 wins(-130)Orioles over 71.5 wins(-130)Twins u84.5(-130)I'm not sure if any of these lines are avaialable any more. CWS is 82.5 widely available and I'd still play it at that #. I like that white sox rotation(buehrle, danks, peavy, and floyd) this year and the division is wide open. Nathan was a big loss for the Twins, so close to the start of the season, not really any time for the Twins to adjust other than closer by committee.I can't believe I bet the orioles in that division. The beginning of their schedule is brutal. This wouldn't be a play at anything other than 71.5, baseball prospectus has them at 78 :confused: I'm guessing around 74 is more realistic.The Pirates I have at 71 wins, I like betting over on bad teams because most bettors think of the pirates and how terrible they are and they bet the under. NL central is weak this year.ATL to win the east because of all the philly love. No team has been healthier the last two seasons than the phillies. There was a stat I read in espn the magazine, philly players the last 2 years have spent ~745 days on the DL....next closest team was 1433 days. They've been ridiculously healthy. The braves are good, they should be more like +200 to win the east.
 
:lmao: Finless, WHY the Rangers? And please don't timwoztis the thread, thanks. :lmao:
A few reasons to like the rangers.If they get off to a slow start they will fire their homeless manager, quickly. This is always good for a quick boost, plus Ron's lineup cards are good for 2-3 losses a year. His love of the double steal another 1.5. So as long as they don't dump him more than a couple games under .500 you've got a good situation to build on to go over. The second arm ERA is likely to be the lowest in the AL. This is an underrated stat that propelled them to a few division titles BITD. Angels, A's Seattle all look at least a little bit shaky in spots. It's been awhile since the A's showed any signs of life. Seattle has been overrated for years now since their 110 win season or whatever. Enormous prospects in the system + a new owner that may want to flex his spending muscle. The potential to sell the future for today is extremely high. Remember with a 4 team division there is much more variance. All it takes is for the Angels to stay healthy and that's 3 extra Ls the Rangers might take versus getting to play in the Central or something versus those teams. Hold a gun to my head I see the Angels winning 88-89 games and the rangers finishing 3 games back.
 
Red Sox starters are pretty strong, but their bullpen is even stronger. Their offense is not as good as years past, but their defense is quite a lot better.
Tell me more. Love Lackey this year, that guy will thrive in Boston. Don't know much about the rest of them yet, so fill me in.
To me, 94.5 looks like a pretty solid line.
Fair enough. Where would you rank them compared to those last 3 years you were talking about?
While I agree there is not much room to spare, the simple fact that they've won more than 94.5 games the last three years running and haven't had a huge exodus of players leaving would lead me to believe that all things being equal, that line is pretty solid.I've always been a pretty big Lackey fan, the guy goes out there and gives you 30 sold starts a year. And now, he is the #3 starter on a powerful team. Lester and Beckett both have dominant stuff as the #1 & #2 pitchers, so that gives you what I feel are the best 1 through 3 starters in the major league. The #4 & 5 starters may be a bit of mix and matching, but Dice K, Buchholz, Wakefield all should be better than their counterpart starters on most every night. With the bullpen, the Red Sox have sported one of the best bullpens in the major leagues - they were second in the AL last year to Oakland. They obviously have a lights out closer, and the bridge from the starters to the closers is extremely deep, with a solid mix. They have a young Dan Bard who hits 100, shifty lefty Okajima, and can throw in solid arms like Ramirez, Delcarmen...maybe a guy like Bowden, it's definitely a strength.I'm not sure how this Red Sox team will matchup to years past, but I think they are at least as good as last year. Ortiz may no longer put up MVP caliber numbers, but they now have a ton of options at DH. They will have a full year of Victor Martinez, which is considerably better than what they've had the past three years, Scutaro, who is a mild upgrade over what they have had, and Beltre who should be at least equal to what they've had - and has a significantly higher upside when you consider the defense he offers. They lost Bay and for added Cameron. Lost a bit offensively, gained a bit defensively.Personally, I feel the Yankees are worse off then they were last year..and the Rays are an interesting team, but they are going to need to rely a lot on some inexperienced/young starting pitching with Garza and Shields are their only two proven veteran starters. The Orioles are an improving team, and the Jays are a wreck.....so again, I think this all shakes out to about the same as recent years. I fully expect the Red Sox to get at least 90 wins, and very possibly 100 wins. If I were fading a team in the AL East, it wouldn't definitely be the Yankees, as expectations are extremely high this year, and the pitching just isn't there in my eyes.
 
FWIW, Verducci highlighted the Astros as the one team who could be worse than expected on ESPN Radio yesterday. Indicated they have had many injuries in spring training (including Berkman and Oswalt), and their overall talent level was not great to begin with.

 
For those that are more numbers-oriented, these are by far the most useful projections I've seen:

AL

NL

I'm happy to talk about the methodology if people want to do so, but getting right down to it, these look like the best plays:

Angels Under 84.5 -115 is a gift. I've seen it at 83.5 elsewhere. Diamond Mind projections average to 78.0. Bet the farm in a much-improved AL West.

Indians Over 74.5 EV is another attractive option. Diamond Mind says 79.9.

A few others to consider:

Astros Under

Phillies Under (as ESPN Mag pointed out, they've been ridiculously lucky on the injury front the last two years)

Mariners Under if it's still at +120

White Sox Under 83.5 -105

 
FWIW, Verducci highlighted the Astros as the one team who could be worse than expected on ESPN Radio yesterday. Indicated they have had many injuries in spring training (including Berkman and Oswalt), and their overall talent level was not great to begin with.
Astros pitching staff:Oswalt - already hurtWandy Rodriguez- back spasmsBrett MyersBud NorrisFelipe PaulinoTheir bullpen is bad, with the potential to be awful. They went from Valverde, who was fairly competent to Lyon and Lidstrom.Their every day lineup will feature at least 4 players who I would consider to be bottom 3 offensively at their respective positions in the NL, and they will rely heavily on Berkman and his gimpy knees, Carlos Lee and his out of shapeness (and butcher in the field) and Hunter Pence - who is really a great player to watch.
 
Angels over 84 1/2.

I'd pound this one.

IMO Scoiscia is in the team picture for best manager in baseball and the team hasn't won less that 89 games in since 2003.

Last year they won 97 games and no one can convince me that Figgins / Vlad / Lackey = 13 games over their replacements.

The bullpen is a little stronger with Rodney setting up Fuentes.

I think people are down on the rotation because there aren't fanatsy stats getting thrown up by the likes of Saunders and Pinero, but this is about Ws and these two combined to win 55 games over the last two years.

Add Kazmir, as a #5 starter, to the mix and I'm sold on the over.

Mets under 81 1/2

This teams is terrible (John Maine's your #2?!??!) and the little bit of talent they have is riddled with question marks

Reyes - Does the hammy and/or thyroid come in to play more that the first week of the season?

Beltran - Already missing about a month. What will he be when he comes back?

Wright - I don't think last year was a fluke.

Santana - Was already showing signs of regressing and now he's coming back from an off season surgery

K Rod - Used up in Anaheim? 2009 showed a career high in WHIP and career low in K/9.

Now odds are that all 5 of these guys don't crash and burn, but where are they if 2 or 3 of them do?

 
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Angels over 84 1/2.I'd pound this one. IMO Scoiscia is in the team picture for best manager in baseball and the team hasn't won less that 89 games in since 2003. Last year they won 97 games and no one can convince me that Figgins / Vlad / Lackey = 13 games over their replacements. The bullpen is a little stronger with Rodney setting up Fuentes.I think people are down on the rotation because there aren't fanatsy stats getting thrown up by the likes of Saunders and Pinero, but this is about Ws and these two combined to win 55 games over the last two years.Add Kazmir, as a #5 starter, to the mix and I'm sold on the over.
Ditka-I obviously disagree, but if you like the Angels Over I'd do some line-shopping before you buy. As I mentioned, I've seen it elsewhere at 83.5. Might as well score the extra game as long as it doesn't shift the money line too much.
 
FWIW, Verducci highlighted the Astros as the one team who could be worse than expected on ESPN Radio yesterday. Indicated they have had many injuries in spring training (including Berkman and Oswalt), and their overall talent level was not great to begin with.
Astros pitching staff:Oswalt - already hurtWandy Rodriguez- back spasmsBrett MyersBud NorrisFelipe PaulinoTheir bullpen is bad, with the potential to be awful. They went from Valverde, who was fairly competent to Lyon and Lidstrom.Their every day lineup will feature at least 4 players who I would consider to be bottom 3 offensively at their respective positions in the NL, and they will rely heavily on Berkman and his gimpy knees, Carlos Lee and his out of shapeness (and butcher in the field) and Hunter Pence - who is really a great player to watch.
:shrug: The Astros line opened at 77.5 on bookmaker. Lots of action on the under on this one to move it down to 73.5
 
Angels over 84 1/2.I'd pound this one. IMO Scoiscia is in the team picture for best manager in baseball and the team hasn't won less that 89 games in since 2003. Last year they won 97 games and no one can convince me that Figgins / Vlad / Lackey = 13 games over their replacements. The bullpen is a little stronger with Rodney setting up Fuentes.I think people are down on the rotation because there aren't fanatsy stats getting thrown up by the likes of Saunders and Pinero, but this is about Ws and these two combined to win 55 games over the last two years.Add Kazmir, as a #5 starter, to the mix and I'm sold on the over.
Ditka-I obviously disagree, but if you like the Angels Over I'd do some line-shopping before you buy. As I mentioned, I've seen it elsewhere at 83.5. Might as well score the extra game as long as it doesn't shift the money line too much.
Thanks. I will look aroundI just don't see the improvement in the AL West that others seem to. Sure Cliff Lee helps the M's, and they are probably the best defensive team in the majors, but the heart of the lineup looks like Kotchman / Bradley / Griffey Jr. I'll pass on any hype that revolves around a team with Milton Bradley penciled in as their 4 hitter.3 of the Rangers top hitters (Vlad / Josh / Kinsler) are a DL stint waiting to happen. Feldman and Harden (speaking of DL stints) are their 1/2? Ugh.For the A's, This is a team that is depending on Ben Sheets to anchor the staff and that is never a good thing. The young arms look very promising. Brett Anderson is a stud, but how does he bounce back from throwing 70 more innings than he ever had before 2009? If Duchscherer could ever get his crap togther, he and Anderson would make a great 1/2. I love the bullpen they've assembled, but when this is the projected lineup.......CF Coco CrispLF Rajai DavisRF Ryan Sweeney3B Kevin KouzmanoffC Kurt SuzukiDH Jack Cust2B Mark Ellis1B Daric BartonSS Cliff Pennington....oof.The Angels are still the class of this division.
 
Angels over 84 1/2.

I'd pound this one.

IMO Scoiscia is in the team picture for best manager in baseball and the team hasn't won less that 89 games in since 2003.

Last year they won 97 games and no one can convince me that Figgins / Vlad / Lackey = 13 games over their replacements.

The bullpen is a little stronger with Rodney setting up Fuentes.

I think people are down on the rotation because there aren't fanatsy stats getting thrown up by the likes of Saunders and Pinero, but this is about Ws and these two combined to win 55 games over the last two years.

Add Kazmir, as a #5 starter, to the mix and I'm sold on the over.
Ditka-I obviously disagree, but if you like the Angels Over I'd do some line-shopping before you buy. As I mentioned, I've seen it elsewhere at 83.5. Might as well score the extra game as long as it doesn't shift the money line too much.
Thanks. I will look aroundI just don't see the improvement in the AL West that others seem to.

Sure Cliff Lee helps the M's, and they are probably the best defensive team in the majors, but the heart of the lineup looks like Kotchman / Bradley / Griffey Jr. I'll pass on any hype that revolves around a team with Milton Bradley penciled in as their 4 hitter.

3 of the Rangers top hitters (Vlad / Josh / Kinsler) are a DL stint waiting to happen. Feldman and Harden (speaking of DL stints) are their 1/2? Ugh.

For the A's, This is a team that is depending on Ben Sheets to anchor the staff and that is never a good thing. The young arms look very promising. Brett Anderson is a stud, but how does he bounce back from throwing 70 more innings than he ever had before 2009? If Duchscherer could ever get his crap togther, he and Anderson would make a great 1/2. I love the bullpen they've assembled, but when this is the projected lineup.......

CF Coco Crisp

LF Rajai Davis

RF Ryan Sweeney

3B Kevin Kouzmanoff

C Kurt Suzuki

DH Jack Cust

2B Mark Ellis

1B Daric Barton

SS Cliff Pennington

....oof.

The Angels are still the class of this division.
Honestly, the only counterargument I've got is this. I've long since accepted the fact that the people behind PECOTA, CHONE and the rest are way way smarter than I am. They've certainly made me a ton of money over the last few years.That said, the Angels have outperformed the projections pretty consistently under Scoiscia- it's reasonable to question the 2010 numbers that once again have the Angels way lower than conventional wisdom.

 
:wolf: Finless, WHY the Rangers? And please don't timwoztis the thread, thanks. :thumbup:
A few reasons to like the rangers......
I have no idea what second arm era means....but betting on a team with a rotation of Harden, Feldman, Lewis, Hunter and CJ Wilson....g'luck with that
I don't like the bet. He wanted to know why someone might like the Rangers over at high juice. 2nd arm era is the era of the first guy in after the starter. Middle relief is strong enough with this club that they can win the division with a substantially higher rotation ERA. Don't sleep on CJ Wilson. That being said I see the coke thing hanging over this club for 6 weeks, long enough to ruin the division chances here.
 
My official plays:

Astros under 73.5

Blue Jays under 70.5

White Sox over 82.5

Giants over 82.5

Mets under 81.5

I chickened out on Baltimore for now. I just don't like betting a team over that has pitching I don't believe in. That, coupled with the division they play in, made me shy. You guys talked me into Houston. You're right, they're awful.

 
Mets under 81 1/2This teams is terrible (John Maine's your #2?!??!) and the little bit of talent they have is riddled with question marksReyes - Does the hammy and/or thyroid come in to play more that the first week of the season?Beltran - Already missing about a month. What will he be when he comes back?Wright - I don't think last year was a fluke. Santana - Was already showing signs of regressing and now he's coming back from an off season surgery K Rod - Used up in Anaheim? 2009 showed a career high in WHIP and career low in K/9.Now odds are that all 5 of these guys don't crash and burn, but where are they if 2 or 3 of them do?
You're right but none of those guys are the reason why.
 

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