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2013 Off Season Dynasty Trade Thread (for completed trades) (1 Viewer)

They weren't vocalized since it was easier to buy without the discussion. Some people need to make the ranking AFTER the numbers are put up. Some don't.
This forum is full of folks sharing rankings/opinions despite their potential future acquisitions. Find it hard to believe that Wilson is the one guy everyone decided to keep quiet about. And most had Richardson as top 5 before he played a down, including myself. So I don't think it's just numbers we're looking for.
He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
 
He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.
How many guys ahead of him?
As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Richardson wasn't your average 1st round draft pick. He was a top 3 NFL pick and widely considered the best RB prospect since AP. Some scouts called him better. He is a much safer bet to be a 3 down back than is Wilson. And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production. He looked very average at times, flawed, at least. He was never trusted in pass protection, was the third RB on the depth chart for most of the year, and feasted on some bad/tired teams at the end of the season.

NYG is a great situation, if he can be the main guy. And he does have massive amounts of talent/potential. But there are some questions and treating him top as 5 right now is a mistake, in my opinion. Top 5 for a guy who's not even a lock to start is wild. Top 5 RBs are 1st round startup picks. I couldn't imagine anyone being so sure as to use a 1st round startup pick on the guy.

 
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He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.
How many guys ahead of him?
As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Richardson wasn't your average 1st round draft pick. He was a top 3 NFL pick and widely considered the best RB prospect since AP. Some scouts called him better. He is a much safer bet to be a 3 down back than is Wilson. And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production. He looked very average at times, flawed, at least. He was never trusted in pass protection, was the third RB on the depth chart for most of the year, and feasted on some bad/tired teams at the end of the season.

NYG is a great situation, if he can be the main guy. And he does have massive amounts of talent/potential. But there are some questions and treating him top as 5 right now is a mistake, in my opinion.
You know what, you're right. You seem to always be right. He looked terrible for 3/4th of the year on all of his first 18 carries through 11 weeks. Terrible. And the only reason he did well for the last few games was because he played against bad/tired teams. My eyes, Ernol's eyes, and any of the rest of us who have him ranked highly have no idea what we're seeing and there's no way this guy is a top 5 RB. He looked very averaged and flawed. This place gets tiresome. If you want to play with a sheep herd mentality then there's no way this guy is top 5 for you. You can stick with buying guys that are widely considered top prospects or guys that have already put up big numbers in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that actually. But to keep putting down folks who have different thinking than yourself and the masses doesn't make much sense to me. Stuff like "There's no way this guy is top 5" and "The hype is out of control" serves very little. I'm not going to even speak for myself, but when a guy like Ernol whose record against pretty stiff competition is top notch is making this kind of statement, it should make you at least think or reconsider your viewpoint. I can add a few more names that think this way about Wilson as well but there's no point.

Pull up last year's stat sheets and make your rankings right off of those. That's what sheep do. I guess stats never change in the NFL from year to year and there's no point trying to forecast or predict where a guy is based on what you actually see.

Also, fwiw, I'm done arguing you with you. There's a difference between my arguments and yours. I don't come here and bash other's opinions on a player they like. I don't come and criticize someone's forward thinking ranking on a player. There are guys that are going to like players that I don't like. I don't come here and start telling them they're crazy. I don't come here and tell them a guy they liked looked terrible and only did well against bad teams. I actually like to listen to people advocating for a guy to see what I might be missing. You seem to constantly come here and criticize and argue against people that like a player. Instead of blaming his ranking on "crazy hype", have you considered that you simply might be missing something about him? I doubt it, but maybe you should.

As for who I have ahead of him, there's only 2. And if you think I don't put my money where my mouth is, look back at the trade of a guy selling Foster for David Wilson that I posted. That was me. But I guess I'm a fool for putting this guy top 5.

Reply however you like, I don't plan on responding back because it's pointless. Good luck this season.

 
Rudolph has some hype behind him but the only component of real value given up was harvin. If the Wilson buyer believes he's getting the next spiller or preACL Charles, it's a fair price. Those guys are untouchable after they hit.

 
Rudolph has some hype behind him but the only component of real value given up was harvin. If the Wilson buyer believes he's getting the next spiller or preACL Charles, it's a fair price. Those guys are untouchable after they hit.
As a current Charles owner, I'd insta-accept that deal.
 
He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.
How many guys ahead of him?
As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Richardson wasn't your average 1st round draft pick. He was a top 3 NFL pick and widely considered the best RB prospect since AP. Some scouts called him better. He is a much safer bet to be a 3 down back than is Wilson. And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production. He looked very average at times, flawed, at least. He was never trusted in pass protection, was the third RB on the depth chart for most of the year, and feasted on some bad/tired teams at the end of the season.

NYG is a great situation, if he can be the main guy. And he does have massive amounts of talent/potential. But there are some questions and treating him top as 5 right now is a mistake, in my opinion.
You know what, you're right. You seem to always be right. He looked terrible for 3/4th of the year on all of his first 18 carries through 11 weeks. Terrible. And the only reason he did well for the last few games was because he played against bad/tired teams. My eyes, Ernol's eyes, and any of the rest of us who have him ranked highly have no idea what we're seeing and there's no way this guy is a top 5 RB. He looked very averaged and flawed. This place gets tiresome. If you want to play with a sheep herd mentality then there's no way this guy is top 5 for you. You can stick with buying guys that are widely considered top prospects or guys that have already put up big numbers in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that actually. But to keep putting down folks who have different thinking than yourself and the masses doesn't make much sense to me. Stuff like "There's no way this guy is top 5" and "The hype is out of control" serves very little. I'm not going to even speak for myself, but when a guy like Ernol whose record against pretty stiff competition is top notch is making this kind of statement, it should make you at least think or reconsider your viewpoint. I can add a few more names that think this way about Wilson as well but there's no point.

Pull up last year's stat sheets and make your rankings right off of those. That's what sheep do. I guess stats never change in the NFL from year to year and there's no point trying to forecast or predict where a guy is based on what you actually see.

Also, fwiw, I'm done arguing you with you. There's a difference between my arguments and yours. I don't come here and bash other's opinions on a player they like. I don't come and criticize someone's forward thinking ranking on a player. There are guys that are going to like players that I don't like. I don't come here and start telling them they're crazy. I don't come here and tell them a guy they liked looked terrible and only did well against bad teams. I actually like to listen to people advocating for a guy to see what I might be missing. You seem to constantly come here and criticize and argue against people that like a player. Instead of blaming his ranking on "crazy hype", have you considered that you simply might be missing something about him? I doubt it, but maybe you should.

As for who I have ahead of him, there's only 2. And if you think I don't put my money where my mouth is, look back at the trade of a guy selling Foster for David Wilson that I posted. That was me. But I guess I'm a fool for putting this guy top 5.
You are losing all your VDBucks!
 
And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production.
Are you saying that you came to your conclusion about the guy's ability on 1.5 carries/game? How you are not employed by an NFL team as a scout is beyond me. That is skill. Flat out skill.
 
And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production.
Are you saying that you came to your conclusion about the guy's ability on 1.5 carries/game? How you are not employed by an NFL team as a scout is beyond me. That is skill. Flat out skill.
As a Wilson owner, I was eagerly watching, hoping he'd break out. And he had -1-2 yard gain after another. Just wouldn't call that looking great. Is that scouting? ;)
 
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He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.
How many guys ahead of him?
As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Richardson wasn't your average 1st round draft pick. He was a top 3 NFL pick and widely considered the best RB prospect since AP. Some scouts called him better. He is a much safer bet to be a 3 down back than is Wilson. And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production. He looked very average at times, flawed, at least. He was never trusted in pass protection, was the third RB on the depth chart for most of the year, and feasted on some bad/tired teams at the end of the season.

NYG is a great situation, if he can be the main guy. And he does have massive amounts of talent/potential. But there are some questions and treating him top as 5 right now is a mistake, in my opinion.
You know what, you're right. You seem to always be right. He looked terrible for 3/4th of the year on all of his first 18 carries through 11 weeks. Terrible. And the only reason he did well for the last few games was because he played against bad/tired teams. My eyes, Ernol's eyes, and any of the rest of us who have him ranked highly have no idea what we're seeing and there's no way this guy is a top 5 RB. He looked very averaged and flawed. This place gets tiresome. If you want to play with a sheep herd mentality then there's no way this guy is top 5 for you. You can stick with buying guys that are widely considered top prospects or guys that have already put up big numbers in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that actually. But to keep putting down folks who have different thinking than yourself and the masses doesn't make much sense to me. Stuff like "There's no way this guy is top 5" and "The hype is out of control" serves very little. I'm not going to even speak for myself, but when a guy like Ernol whose record against pretty stiff competition is top notch is making this kind of statement, it should make you at least think or reconsider your viewpoint. I can add a few more names that think this way about Wilson as well but there's no point.

Pull up last year's stat sheets and make your rankings right off of those. That's what sheep do. I guess stats never change in the NFL from year to year and there's no point trying to forecast or predict where a guy is based on what you actually see.

Also, fwiw, I'm done arguing you with you. There's a difference between my arguments and yours. I don't come here and bash other's opinions on a player they like. I don't come and criticize someone's forward thinking ranking on a player. There are guys that are going to like players that I don't like. I don't come here and start telling them they're crazy. I don't come here and tell them a guy they liked looked terrible and only did well against bad teams. I actually like to listen to people advocating for a guy to see what I might be missing. You seem to constantly come here and criticize and argue against people that like a player. Instead of blaming his ranking on "crazy hype", have you considered that you simply might be missing something about him? I doubt it, but maybe you should.

As for who I have ahead of him, there's only 2. And if you think I don't put my money where my mouth is, look back at the trade of a guy selling Foster for David Wilson that I posted. That was me. But I guess I'm a fool for putting this guy top 5.

Reply however you like, I don't plan on responding back because it's pointless. Good luck this season.
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. I had to go back and read this debate to see what coop said that was so overboard and I didn't find it. While coop may over argue a topic, I wouldn't say he's disrespectful, just giving his viewpoint. And I would hope you aren't done arguing with him, because for the most part, your guys debates highly informative and worthwhile.
 
They weren't vocalized since it was easier to buy without the discussion. Some people need to make the ranking AFTER the numbers are put up. Some don't.
This forum is full of folks sharing rankings/opinions despite their potential future acquisitions. Find it hard to believe that Wilson is the one guy everyone decided to keep quiet about. And most had Richardson as top 5 before he played a down, including myself. So I don't think it's just numbers we're looking for.
He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Maybe I missed something, but did Wilson really look that spectacular running the ball last season? He had his big game against the saints (who were awful against the run), and he did flash his explosiveness, but I don't remember him being that amazing
 
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. I had to go back and read this debate to see what coop said that was so overboard and I didn't find it. While coop may over argue a topic, I wouldn't say he's disrespectful, just giving his viewpoint. And I would hope you aren't done arguing with him, because for the most part, your guys debates highly informative and worthwhile.
Likely a result of the ego bantering he and I have been doing over the last couple weeks on a specific topic. I don't blame him for being annoyed, as it was getting old for me too, despite my contribution to it - bad habit. Certainly hope we can talk FF in the future, but I can understand if I rub(bed) him the wrong way and don't blame him. I can be a bit snarky, and when you do that, it's hard to for others to decipher tone in future posts.
 
He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.
How many guys ahead of him?
As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Richardson wasn't your average 1st round draft pick. He was a top 3 NFL pick and widely considered the best RB prospect since AP. Some scouts called him better. He is a much safer bet to be a 3 down back than is Wilson. And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production. He looked very average at times, flawed, at least. He was never trusted in pass protection, was the third RB on the depth chart for most of the year, and feasted on some bad/tired teams at the end of the season.

NYG is a great situation, if he can be the main guy. And he does have massive amounts of talent/potential. But there are some questions and treating him top as 5 right now is a mistake, in my opinion.
You know what, you're right. You seem to always be right. He looked terrible for 3/4th of the year on all of his first 18 carries through 11 weeks. Terrible. And the only reason he did well for the last few games was because he played against bad/tired teams. My eyes, Ernol's eyes, and any of the rest of us who have him ranked highly have no idea what we're seeing and there's no way this guy is a top 5 RB. He looked very averaged and flawed. This place gets tiresome. If you want to play with a sheep herd mentality then there's no way this guy is top 5 for you. You can stick with buying guys that are widely considered top prospects or guys that have already put up big numbers in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that actually. But to keep putting down folks who have different thinking than yourself and the masses doesn't make much sense to me. Stuff like "There's no way this guy is top 5" and "The hype is out of control" serves very little. I'm not going to even speak for myself, but when a guy like Ernol whose record against pretty stiff competition is top notch is making this kind of statement, it should make you at least think or reconsider your viewpoint. I can add a few more names that think this way about Wilson as well but there's no point.

Pull up last year's stat sheets and make your rankings right off of those. That's what sheep do. I guess stats never change in the NFL from year to year and there's no point trying to forecast or predict where a guy is based on what you actually see.

Also, fwiw, I'm done arguing you with you. There's a difference between my arguments and yours. I don't come here and bash other's opinions on a player they like. I don't come and criticize someone's forward thinking ranking on a player. There are guys that are going to like players that I don't like. I don't come here and start telling them they're crazy. I don't come here and tell them a guy they liked looked terrible and only did well against bad teams. I actually like to listen to people advocating for a guy to see what I might be missing. You seem to constantly come here and criticize and argue against people that like a player. Instead of blaming his ranking on "crazy hype", have you considered that you simply might be missing something about him? I doubt it, but maybe you should.

As for who I have ahead of him, there's only 2. And if you think I don't put my money where my mouth is, look back at the trade of a guy selling Foster for David Wilson that I posted. That was me. But I guess I'm a fool for putting this guy top 5.

Reply however you like, I don't plan on responding back because it's pointless. Good luck this season.
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. I had to go back and read this debate to see what coop said that was so overboard and I didn't find it. While coop may over argue a topic, I wouldn't say he's disrespectful, just giving his viewpoint. And I would hope you aren't done arguing with him, because for the most part, your guys debates highly informative and worthwhile.
It's not just here and it's not just Wilson. And again, it's not even just in debates with me. There are some people around here that are very quick to knock down an opinion on someone or just dismiss them as crazy. Read the Knile Davis thread. Read the Miami RB thread. Those are just a few recent ones. The funny thing is, you'd think I was advocating for Knile as a top overall prospect when all I was doing was suggesting not to just dismiss the guy and maybe listen and pay attention to what people had to say about him. Similarly situation in the Miller thread yet I was told I was crazy and Miller is just a COP RB and it's foolish. I could go on and on, but again, it's a waste of time.Some owners are very risk averse. They don't trust what they see or they just aren't able to. That's fine. But when those same people start lambasting others for being forward thinking or trusting what they see, even on limited carries or college production, it gets old real quick. So what's the point? If I'm going to share my thoughts on a guy BEFORE he breaks out and get told I'm crazy or I don't know what I'm seeing or the "hype is crazy", then why bother? Stick with the herd and profit. Or don't.

 
It's not just here and it's not just Wilson. And again, it's not even just in debates with me. There are some people around here that are very quick to knock down an opinion on someone or just dismiss them as crazy. Read the Knile Davis thread. Read the Miami RB thread. Those are just a few recent ones. The funny thing is, you'd think I was advocating for Knile as a top overall prospect when all I was doing was suggesting not to just dismiss the guy and maybe listen and pay attention to what people had to say about him. Similarly situation in the Miller thread yet I was told I was crazy and Miller is just a COP RB and it's foolish. I could go on and on, but again, it's a waste of time.Some owners are very risk averse. They don't trust what they see or they just aren't able to. That's fine. But when those same people start lambasting others for being forward thinking or trusting what they see, even on limited carries or college production, it gets old real quick. So what's the point? If I'm going to share my thoughts on a guy BEFORE he breaks out and get told I'm crazy or I don't know what I'm seeing or the "hype is crazy", then why bother? Stick with the herd and profit. Or don't.
Wrong guy on the Knile Davis thread. Not sure if I've posted on it, even. You don't need to explain your reasons for being annoyed, I get it. But I never called you crazy or foolish. I don't think I have lambasted anyone. When I share my opinion on a player or trade, I don't intend for that to be taken personally. And I haven't been called risk averse often. I'm usually being questioned for taking McCoy #1 overall in 2010, Newton over Rodgers during his rookie season or calling Alfred Morris top 12, 4 weeks into the season.
 
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Some owners are very risk averse. They don't trust what they see or they just aren't able to. That's fine.
Do you realize how hypocritical you're being? You say Coop's a know-it-all who always has to be right, and then come right out and argue that if owners don't agree with you on Miller, Wilson, or Davis they must not be capable of trusting their eyes. Did it occur to you that THEY may be trusting THEIR eyes when they decide they are not believers in these players? Two people can see two different things in the same tape, or interpret the same thing differently. It doesn't mean that one of them isn't trusting his eyes. That's a pretty condescending stance to take, coming from the guy pointing fingers at Coop about tone.
 
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It's possible to both believe that Wilson is very talented and in a good situation, but also at the same time believe that he is not worth a top 5 RB price. Once you start listing names, I find it hard to justify him being much more than RB10.

 
Sometimes we take this game way too serious. I hope some of us have the same intensity when fighting for other causes.

 
It's possible to both believe that Wilson is very talented and in a good situation, but also at the same time believe that he is not worth a top 5 RB price. Once you start listing names, I find it hard to justify him being much more than RB10.
RichardsonMartinCharlesSpillerMcCoyRiceAre all clearly above him.ADPFosterShould be
 
It's possible to both believe that Wilson is very talented and in a good situation, but also at the same time believe that he is not worth a top 5 RB price. Once you start listing names, I find it hard to justify him being much more than RB10.
This is why I am so high on Isaiah. He was picked 15 spots later than Miller, also has great speed, also has some growing to do as a player, but his cost is so much lower. I am not suggesting Pead is as valuable, but I personally couldn't justify gambling on Wilson at top 5-8 prices, when Pead is so much cheaper. I'd rather get a guy I can better count on in 2014 (Spiller, McCoy, etc) and load up on Pead, James, Pierce, Turbin, Hillman, and you could likely get all of those guys for Wilson. Just based on my opinion, and I could be wrong.
 
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Guys like Morris don't land on my squad unless it's like he landed in 95% of owners laps, because they made a bigger waiver claim after his coming out game when he was essentially free. Of the 5% that sought him, 3% did such due to Shenahanigans, kudos to the 2% of his owners that truly suggests you came away from his college tape really yearning for his presence on your bench, I didn't see it.

Due to the fact that most that got Alfred got him quite cheaply, I think his value has gotten out of hand, especially in the current RB landscape. In my biased opinion, he shouldn't be ranked as high as he is but a mix of shorter-term owners and risk averse owners (I have learned these are very different beasts) will always keep him afloat this off-season at this excessive opportunity cost. Admittedly, though, weighting risk averse owners is the weakest part of my game as sometimes I simply cannot believe why certain players are ranked as they are.

You can quote any numbers to me and I would not feel like I was comfy keeping The Butler on my squad in lieu of some filthy exits.

 
It's possible to both believe that Wilson is very talented and in a good situation, but also at the same time believe that he is not worth a top 5 RB price. Once you start listing names, I find it hard to justify him being much more than RB10.
This is why I am so high on Isaiah. He was picked 15 spots later than Miller, also has great speed, also has some growing to do as a player, but his cost is so much lower. I am not suggesting Pead is as valuable, but I personally couldn't justify gambling on Wilson at top 5-8 prices, when Pead is so much cheaper. I'd rather get a guy I can better count on in 2014 (Spiller, McCoy, etc) and load up on Pead, James, Pierce, Turbin, Hillman, and you could likely get all of those guys for Wilson. Just based on my opinion, and I could be wrong.
You are disregarding the fact that you had a chance to draft Lamar over Pead... and the fact that even throughout that whole period you reference where he looked terrible... the cost of these two were still even then...####, Lamar's value was still #### a couple months ago. Guys noticing that and overpaying him have driven that up just as much as Rotoworld.
 
You are disregarding the fact that you had a chance to draft Lamar over Pead... and the fact that even throughout that whole period you reference where he looked terrible... the cost of these two were still even then...####, Lamar's value was still #### a couple months ago. Guys noticing that and overpaying him have driven that up just as much as Rotoworld.
I'm confused; I wasn't talking about Miller.
 
Sometimes we take this game way too serious. I hope some of us have the same intensity when fighting for other causes.
I agree, and I can't see how you separate it. if you pull shady #### in a hobby, i presume you pull shady #### in real life. if you are passionate about a hobby, i presume you are passionate in real life. not always the case but I'm a simple minded man.
 
You are disregarding the fact that you had a chance to draft Lamar over Pead... and the fact that even throughout that whole period you reference where he looked terrible... the cost of these two were still even then...####, Lamar's value was still #### a couple months ago. Guys noticing that and overpaying him have driven that up just as much as Rotoworld.
I'm confused; I wasn't talking about Miller.
I know, I was making it easier on you cause Wilson is a horse and that felt too easy to make a point. I'm going to Lamar for your benefit, not mine.
 
Guys like Morris don't land on my squad unless it's like he landed in 95% of owners laps, because they made a bigger waiver claim after his coming out game when he was essentially free. Of the 5% that sought him, 3% did such due to Shenahanigans, kudos to the 2% of his owners that truly suggests you came away from his college tape really yearning for his presence on your bench, I didn't see it.Due to the fact that most that got Alfred got him quite cheaply, I think his value has gotten out of hand, especially in the current RB landscape. In my biased opinion, he shouldn't be ranked as high as he is but a mix of shorter-term owners and risk averse owners (I have learned these are very different beasts) will always keep him afloat this off-season at this excessive opportunity cost. Admittedly, though, weighting risk averse owners is the weakest part of my game as sometimes I simply cannot believe why certain players are ranked as they are.You can quote any numbers to me and I would not feel like I was comfy keeping The Butler on my squad in lieu of some filthy exits.
Why are you talking about Morris? Where did that come from?
 
You are disregarding the fact that you had a chance to draft Lamar over Pead... and the fact that even throughout that whole period you reference where he looked terrible... the cost of these two were still even then...####, Lamar's value was still #### a couple months ago. Guys noticing that and overpaying him have driven that up just as much as Rotoworld.
I'm confused; I wasn't talking about Miller.
I know, I was making it easier on you cause Wilson is a horse and that felt too easy to make a point. I'm going to Lamar for your benefit, not mine.
Still confused.
 
He wasn't ranked top 5 last year to start the year off. But you're saying "he had 75 touches" as if that's enough to form an opinion on the guy. The talent was already there, the 75 touches and what he did with them just confirmed what was thought of earlier. That was enough to vault him quite a bit higher. So once again, you look at the situation, the talent, the draft position, how he looked on the field (even in limited touches), his age, etc....not many guys I'm taking ahead of him.
How many guys ahead of him?
As you pointed out, some had Richardson top 5 before he played a down. Why is it so silly to put Wilson top 5 AFTER he has played a down when he looked spectacular even on only 75 touches? Especially considering the NYG, their history running the football, and the fact they cut Bradshaw.
Richardson wasn't your average 1st round draft pick. He was a top 3 NFL pick and widely considered the best RB prospect since AP. Some scouts called him better. He is a much safer bet to be a 3 down back than is Wilson. And Wilson didn't look spectacular for the first 3/4 of the season, unless we are talking about his return production. He looked very average at times, flawed, at least. He was never trusted in pass protection, was the third RB on the depth chart for most of the year, and feasted on some bad/tired teams at the end of the season.

NYG is a great situation, if he can be the main guy. And he does have massive amounts of talent/potential. But there are some questions and treating him top as 5 right now is a mistake, in my opinion.
You know what, you're right. You seem to always be right. He looked terrible for 3/4th of the year on all of his first 18 carries through 11 weeks. Terrible. And the only reason he did well for the last few games was because he played against bad/tired teams. My eyes, Ernol's eyes, and any of the rest of us who have him ranked highly have no idea what we're seeing and there's no way this guy is a top 5 RB. He looked very averaged and flawed. This place gets tiresome. If you want to play with a sheep herd mentality then there's no way this guy is top 5 for you. You can stick with buying guys that are widely considered top prospects or guys that have already put up big numbers in the NFL. Nothing wrong with that actually. But to keep putting down folks who have different thinking than yourself and the masses doesn't make much sense to me. Stuff like "There's no way this guy is top 5" and "The hype is out of control" serves very little. I'm not going to even speak for myself, but when a guy like Ernol whose record against pretty stiff competition is top notch is making this kind of statement, it should make you at least think or reconsider your viewpoint. I can add a few more names that think this way about Wilson as well but there's no point.

Pull up last year's stat sheets and make your rankings right off of those. That's what sheep do. I guess stats never change in the NFL from year to year and there's no point trying to forecast or predict where a guy is based on what you actually see.

Also, fwiw, I'm done arguing you with you. There's a difference between my arguments and yours. I don't come here and bash other's opinions on a player they like. I don't come and criticize someone's forward thinking ranking on a player. There are guys that are going to like players that I don't like. I don't come here and start telling them they're crazy. I don't come here and tell them a guy they liked looked terrible and only did well against bad teams. I actually like to listen to people advocating for a guy to see what I might be missing. You seem to constantly come here and criticize and argue against people that like a player. Instead of blaming his ranking on "crazy hype", have you considered that you simply might be missing something about him? I doubt it, but maybe you should.

As for who I have ahead of him, there's only 2. And if you think I don't put my money where my mouth is, look back at the trade of a guy selling Foster for David Wilson that I posted. That was me. But I guess I'm a fool for putting this guy top 5.

Reply however you like, I don't plan on responding back because it's pointless. Good luck this season.
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. I had to go back and read this debate to see what coop said that was so overboard and I didn't find it. While coop may over argue a topic, I wouldn't say he's disrespectful, just giving his viewpoint. And I would hope you aren't done arguing with him, because for the most part, your guys debates highly informative and worthwhile.
It's not just here and it's not just Wilson. And again, it's not even just in debates with me. There are some people around here that are very quick to knock down an opinion on someone or just dismiss them as crazy. Read the Knile Davis thread. Read the Miami RB thread. Those are just a few recent ones. The funny thing is, you'd think I was advocating for Knile as a top overall prospect when all I was doing was suggesting not to just dismiss the guy and maybe listen and pay attention to what people had to say about him. Similarly situation in the Miller thread yet I was told I was crazy and Miller is just a COP RB and it's foolish. I could go on and on, but again, it's a waste of time.
Welcome to a period of growth. Now wipe the sand out of your crotch ya big baby
 
Guys like Morris don't land on my squad unless it's like he landed in 95% of owners laps, because they made a bigger waiver claim after his coming out game when he was essentially free. Of the 5% that sought him, 3% did such due to Shenahanigans, kudos to the 2% of his owners that truly suggests you came away from his college tape really yearning for his presence on your bench, I didn't see it.Due to the fact that most that got Alfred got him quite cheaply, I think his value has gotten out of hand, especially in the current RB landscape. In my biased opinion, he shouldn't be ranked as high as he is but a mix of shorter-term owners and risk averse owners (I have learned these are very different beasts) will always keep him afloat this off-season at this excessive opportunity cost. Admittedly, though, weighting risk averse owners is the weakest part of my game as sometimes I simply cannot believe why certain players are ranked as they are.You can quote any numbers to me and I would not feel like I was comfy keeping The Butler on my squad in lieu of some filthy exits.
Why are you talking about Morris? Where did that come from?
actually, 'just what i was feeling at the time'. apologies
 
Gave: Romo, Brazill, 1.09Got: Tannehill, Michael Floyd, 1.1212 team PPR
I'm not comfy with Romo piloting my team if I'm staring down Cam Newton in the finals, might as well have Tannehill to see if he's that?Floyd/1.12 for 1.9 is putrid, the mojo of a bottom feeder.
 
Some owners are very risk averse. They don't trust what they see or they just aren't able to. That's fine.
Do you realize how hypocritical you're being? You say Coop's a know-it-all who always has to be right, and then come right out and argue that if owners don't agree with you on Miller, Wilson, or Davis they must not be capable of trusting their eyes. Did it occur to you that THEY may be trusting THEIR eyes when they decide they are not believers in these players? Two people can see two different things in the same tape, or interpret the same thing differently. It doesn't mean that one of them isn't trusting his eyes. That's a pretty condescending stance to take, coming from the guy pointing fingers at Coop about tone.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't suggest AT ALL that any owner disagreeing with me isn't capable of trusting their eyes. I'm simply stating a fact that, as a style, some owners are very risk averse. They are risk averse because they don't trust what they see or aren't able to. These are two completely different ideas. In fact, I'm actually stating that's ok to be that way. I will offer up (and some here can attest to it) that I'm not great at watching guys on the college football field and figuring out how they will do in the NFL. I'm aware of that and, as such, I'm usually not one to move players that are known to me for rookie picks (especially at WR). Where I AM comfortable is seeing a guy against actual NFL competition and feeling good about what I see even in a limited role (i.e. Wilson, Miller, etc). When it comes to rookie picks, I am much more risk averse than I am with rookies or 2nd year guys that I've gotten to see. And once again, I'm not here telling people they are wrong. I'm not the one coming here blasting people for putting a player in their top 5 if it's not something I agree with. I'm not the one calling the hype out of control or crazy for an owner to be forward thinking and ranking someone higher than I have them. Read the following two statements:1) I don't have Wilson in my top 52) There is no way Wilson is a top 5 RB.Do you see the difference? Ernol suggested that paying Harvin for Wilson is good for him because it's hard to buy top 5 dynasty RBs. He got blasted by several responses saying there's no way the guy is a top 5 dynasty RB. You realize you can not be in agreement on Wilson without telling Ernol that he is essentially an idiot. Coop comes on and suggests "where were these rankings last year...the guy only had 75 touches". My response to that is, if there are people that are actually raising the guy based on "just 75 touches", then there might be something they are seeing that you aren't. You don't have to agree with them. Maybe the 75 touches is enough for you to be convinced he isn't that good. Maybe the 75 touches isn't enough for you to form an opinion yet. Both of those are fine. Coming here and suggesting that the hype is crazy after "just 75 touches" is suggesting that Ernol can't form an opinion on that limited data set that he watched. You may not see the difference in these sentiments, but I see them as quite different and it's a very common occurrence around here. Again, if people start clamoring for a guy, ESPECIALLY after such a limited amount of work, I start to pay attention. I may not ultimately agree, but I don't suggest that it's all "hype" or "there's no way he's a top 5 dynasty RB". We're all gonna make good calls and bad calls. What's funny is that when you find someone going against the grain, they often get criticized here. I would suggest paying attention to people that might be more forward thinking to at least consider the possibility that you might be wrong on someone. It's opened my eyes on plenty of players I would have otherwise ignored.
 
Again, if people start clamoring for a guy, ESPECIALLY after such a limited amount of work, I start to pay attention. I may not ultimately agree, but I don't suggest that it's all "hype" or "there's no way he's a top 5 dynasty RB".
whether anyone agrees or disagrees is damn near irrelevant as long as it gets you looking at it to see for yourself sometimes. If you go in to something knowing someone "overpaid" for it you are inherently paying more attention. Nature of mammals pretty sure
 
Each of these are 12 team PPR

gave: Antonio Brown/3.07

gave: Gordon/3.11

gave: Moreno

gave: 2015 2nd/4th

gave: Ballard/TJ Graham

gave: Holmes/Keller

gave: Alexander/2.9/4.9

gave: Sid Rice/2.2/4.4

gave: Romo/Roddy

gave: Chris Johnson

gave: A Smith

gave: Sanu/3.2

gave: Vereen/2.11/3.9

gave: S Hill/2.6/3.3

gave: SJax/Alexander/Sid Rice

gave: Ridley

 
Team A gives 2.11 and mcgaheeTeam B gives 5.12 and DeangeloTeam B owns Moreno
In a 2 QB league,rather the 2nd
I think I would take it in any league. Deangelo has almost no value in my mind.
I am the one acquiring deangelo. Peso, you are in this league..... I get the 2qb factor, perhaps there was better value. I just think deangelo has relatively low tread for a soon to be 30 year old back. I also believe the cap strapped panthers have to cut one of their backs. At that point, deangelos value will certainly be higher.... Lastly, i have roster issues, have no room for the 2nd rounder..... We shall see.
 

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