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This was my first thought as well, suprised not more discussion on this.I was hoping Andy would do something dumb and draft Geno #1 and push guys down to us.(But now that he's gone and can screw us in the draft he'll probably turn into a draft genius)
With the additional year under his belt, I'd say he's above Barkley at least. About on par with Glennon. Smith still higher just for the potential.
I'll say it now... Dixon will be the #2 before Foles...Foles does not fit what Kelly wants..... SO if you sit on him this year... what do you possibly think you could get for him next year??? If someone would pony up a 2nd or 3rd for Foles, I'd be all over it.... And I like Foles.... but he isn't what Chip wants..... We wouldn't have resigned Vick... signed Dixon..... yes there has been some nice things Kelly has said... that is to keep his value.. Kelly can't come out and say he isn't what I want or he loses all value..... The point is.. yes he has a nice cap hit, and could be a serviceable backup.... but you can't have a backup that runs a complete different offense.... Washington and Seattle run base offenses that both QB's can run..... When RG3 went down they took out the pistol and read option packages..... We won't be able to do that here..... This isn't anti-Foles or anything like that... he just isn't the fit with the system now... IF they can get a 2nd or 3rd I think he is GONE.... I can't see Andy ponying up 2.1 for him though.. Wish he would, but just can't see it....'Insein said:
Explain why.
I guess we'll see. I just don't see Kelly as a guy that is married to one system. He's changed his system to fit who he's had at every stop he's been at.
Call me crazy but I'd honestly take him over everyone but Geno.
Ok crazy but really I don't see what everyone else does I think at best he is a mid tier guy like a Brad Johnson. Someone like Palmer is probably his ceiling and that's being generous. He doesn't fit Kelly's system and to have Kelly adjust a whole system for just Foles is nuts because the rest of the team fits his system. I believe Foles has to be dealt this year because he will only lose value in the up coming years. I think he going early 4th round to someone like the chiefs or billsCall me crazy but I'd honestly take him over everyone but Geno.
When people keep describing the QBs in this class as "a poor man's Blaine Gabbert" or "a poor man's Christian Ponder", a Palmer-like ceiling doesn't sound so bad.
Kelly has to adjust his whole System regardless of who starts 2013+. I read a old draft report on Tom Brady a few weeks ago. The 9ers brought him and a few other QB's in for a workout. They ended up ignoring Brady completely because he didn't fit their system and ended up drafting Giovanni Carmazzi. Carmazzi never played a snap in the NFL because of injuries. Hindsight says don't dismiss Tom Brady because he doesn't fit your system, Instead design your system too fit Tom Brady. By no means will I ever confuse Nick Foles with Tom Brady. But if Chip Kelly is stubborn about having a QB to fit his system then how great of a offensive mind is he? Can you count on him being able to adjust in game/in season/ in the future if his system is figured out? If he trades a young promising pocket passer like Foles for a mid-round pick then I'll all but dismiss this marriage. If he went to NE would everyone scream trade Brady? No. Kelly could be blowing smoke, but what I hear he isn't one tracked minded about his offense. Hopefully I didn't get the wrong impression. One thing a lot of analyst have been ignoring is that it isn't easy to find a QB who can run the read option to perfection like RG3/Wilson/Cam/Kaepernick. Just like it wasn't easy to find a Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Luck in the past. It will be interesting league-wide to see how many teams chase after the next great read option QB, it won't be as easy as many think.Ok crazy but really I don't see what everyone else does I think at best he is a mid tier guy like a Brad Johnson. Someone like Palmer is probably his ceiling and that's being generous. He doesn't fit Kelly's system and to have Kelly adjust a whole system for just Foles is nuts because the rest of the team fits his system. I believe Foles has to be dealt this year because he will only lose value in the up coming years. I think he going early 4th round to someone like the chiefs or billsCall me crazy but I'd honestly take him over everyone but Geno.
Assuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years
aunte CulpepperCam NewtonRussell WilsonMichael VickColin KaepernickRobert GriffinVince YoungTerrelle Pryor
No a true duel threat. I'm hesitant to put Cam/Kaep with Russ/RG3 but I wanted to stretch the list a little.Assuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years
Im really tired of your ignorant posts.Please for the love of god compare Foles to the QBs that CK had at UNH. Please please please please
Hindsight is a great thing but you don't draft a mid round guy you think is average at best and say lets change our system and see how he does. I have no idea how Kelly really feels about Foles but if he doesn't see anything special move on and get guys you think are either special or fit what your trying to do. I think Kelly is smart enough if he has to change some things he can but I rather him only do that IF he has to. I think a lot people think you need to run like RG3 or Vick to run his system but that's not true you just need some athletic ability like a Alex Smith. I'm in no way saying I want Alex and I'm not even saying Foles isn't mobile enough as fact I just don't see it and I don't think Foles is worth changing your system for.Kelly has to adjust his whole System regardless of who starts 2013+. I read a old draft report on Tom Brady a few weeks ago. The 9ers brought him and a few other QB's in for a workout. They ended up ignoring Brady completely because he didn't fit their system and ended up drafting Giovanni Carmazzi. Carmazzi never played a snap in the NFL because of injuries. Hindsight says don't dismiss Tom Brady because he doesn't fit your system, Instead design your system too fit Tom Brady. By no means will I ever confuse Nick Foles with Tom Brady. But if Chip Kelly is stubborn about having a QB to fit his system then how great of a offensive mind is he? Can you count on him being able to adjust in game/in season/ in the future if his system is figured out? If he trades a young promising pocket passer like Foles for a mid-round pick then I'll all but dismiss this marriage. If he went to NE would everyone scream trade Brady? No. Kelly could be blowing smoke, but what I hear he isn't one tracked minded about his offense. Hopefully I didn't get the wrong impression. One thing a lot of analyst have been ignoring is that it isn't easy to find a QB who can run the read option to perfection like RG3/Wilson/Cam/Kaepernick. Just like it wasn't easy to find a Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Luck in the past. It will be interesting league-wide to see how many teams chase after the next great read option QB, it won't be as easy as many think.Ok crazy but really I don't see what everyone else does I think at best he is a mid tier guy like a Brad Johnson. Someone like Palmer is probably his ceiling and that's being generous. He doesn't fit Kelly's system and to have Kelly adjust a whole system for just Foles is nuts because the rest of the team fits his system. I believe Foles has to be dealt this year because he will only lose value in the up coming years. I think he going early 4th round to someone like the chiefs or billsCall me crazy but I'd honestly take him over everyone but Geno.
Your making a list of running Qb's I don't think you have to be a pure runner to run Kelly system you just have to be able to move some. Alex SmithAndrew LuckJake LockerChristian PonderBlaine GabbartAndy DaltonJosh FreemanJason CampbellAaron RodgersByron Leftwitch I can list about 15 more who might have been a lot better if they had a system like Kelly's instead of being forced to play in a pure pocket passer offenseAssuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years
Public consensus usually doesn't lead to smart decisions. Chip Kelly is saying one thing and the media is basically calling him a liar. Foles being a 3rd pick in last years draft means absolutely nothing as of now if you are trying to evaluate his worth. That's like saying Jacksonville would only trade Gabbert for a #1 pick. The media makes it out like Foles crapped his pants as a starter, I beg to differ. Out of every rookie to ever play in the NFL Foles had the third highest completion percentage, the fourth best interception ratio, and the second highest yards per game(I'm sure my numbers are off a tad). You won't hear that on TV everyday. If you're going to trade a young player with a resume like that then you better receive a ransom in return off of upside alone, not a mid round draft pick. If you can't create a productive offense for years to come with a young player with a resume like that then you are not the next Bill Belichick. Foles happened to produce theses numbers as a rookie with a backup o-line, no experience at the skill positions, a horrible defense, and a lame duck coach. Most of those issues will hopefully change in a year or two. Trading Foles would be a huge mistake. What else does he need to do to shake the mid round qb label?Hindsight is a great thing but you don't draft a mid round guy you think is average at best and say lets change our system and see how he does. I have no idea how Kelly really feels about Foles but if he doesn't see anything special move on and get guys you think are either special or fit what your trying to do. I think Kelly is smart enough if he has to change some things he can but I rather him only do that IF he has to. I think a lot people think you need to run like RG3 or Vick to run his system but that's not true you just need some athletic ability like a Alex Smith. I'm in no way saying I want Alex and I'm not even saying Foles isn't mobile enough as fact I just don't see it and I don't think Foles is worth changing your system for.Kelly has to adjust his whole System regardless of who starts 2013+. I read a old draft report on Tom Brady a few weeks ago. The 9ers brought him and a few other QB's in for a workout. They ended up ignoring Brady completely because he didn't fit their system and ended up drafting Giovanni Carmazzi. Carmazzi never played a snap in the NFL because of injuries. Hindsight says don't dismiss Tom Brady because he doesn't fit your system, Instead design your system too fit Tom Brady. By no means will I ever confuse Nick Foles with Tom Brady. But if Chip Kelly is stubborn about having a QB to fit his system then how great of a offensive mind is he? Can you count on him being able to adjust in game/in season/ in the future if his system is figured out? If he trades a young promising pocket passer like Foles for a mid-round pick then I'll all but dismiss this marriage. If he went to NE would everyone scream trade Brady? No. Kelly could be blowing smoke, but what I hear he isn't one tracked minded about his offense. Hopefully I didn't get the wrong impression. One thing a lot of analyst have been ignoring is that it isn't easy to find a QB who can run the read option to perfection like RG3/Wilson/Cam/Kaepernick. Just like it wasn't easy to find a Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Luck in the past. It will be interesting league-wide to see how many teams chase after the next great read option QB, it won't be as easy as many think.Ok crazy but really I don't see what everyone else does I think at best he is a mid tier guy like a Brad Johnson. Someone like Palmer is probably his ceiling and that's being generous. He doesn't fit Kelly's system and to have Kelly adjust a whole system for just Foles is nuts because the rest of the team fits his system. I believe Foles has to be dealt this year because he will only lose value in the up coming years. I think he going early 4th round to someone like the chiefs or billsCall me crazy but I'd honestly take him over everyone but Geno.
Do you really think Locker Gabbert or Jason Cambell would lead you to a championship in any system?Your making a list of running Qb's I don't think you have to be a pure runner to run Kelly system you just have to be able to move some. Alex SmithAndrew LuckJake LockerChristian PonderBlaine GabbartAndy DaltonJosh FreemanJason CampbellAaron RodgersByron Leftwitch I can list about 15 more who might have been a lot better if they had a system like Kelly's instead of being forced to play in a pure pocket passer offenseAssuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years
If you want to routinely send guys who run 4.7-5.0+ into the teeth of a modern NFL defense as an unprotected rusher feel free. I'd rather ask them to do something where they might not get killed.Again, I'm talking true read option here. Where the QB turning into a rusher is the threat that makes the whole thing go.'Nagle2998 said:
Nobody runsa true read option in the NFL because the QB gets killed. Case in point, RG3. There's a hybrid version of it where there's some read option and some pro scheme. To think that Chip is so narrow in his views on what his going to run for an offense has not seen the man in his college career. He adjusts to what he thinks can win. He will adjust to fit what he has and he will do it again when he gets another QB.
Byron Leftwich???'Nagle2998 said:Your making a list of running Qb's I don't think you have to be a pure runner to run Kelly system you just have to be able to move some. Alex SmithAndrew LuckJake LockerChristian PonderBlaine GabbartAndy DaltonJosh FreemanJason CampbellAaron RodgersByron Leftwitch I can list about 15 more who might have been a lot better if they had a system like Kelly's instead of being forced to play in a pure pocket passer offense'wdcrob said:Assuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years'ShaHBucks said:
I have no idea who can do what in what offense I never thought Trent Dilfer could win a SB but he did. If you look at Gannon in his early years I'm sure you would have said he is terrible he will never take a team to the SB. If I had to pick right now I think Locker, Ponder, and Gabbart have a better shot of taking a Chip Kelly offense to a SB then Mike Vick does. I also think Campbell was screwed in his early years with different head coaches and OC every year who knows what he could have done with one coach in a offense that was suited for him. I think sometimes a Qb is just hurt or helped a lot by what team drafts him and allows him to what he does best. As for Leftwitch even though some forget he looked very good his rookie season then he got injured almost every year after and not minor injuries season ending onesByron Leftwich???'Nagle2998 said:Your making a list of running Qb's I don't think you have to be a pure runner to run Kelly system you just have to be able to move some. Alex SmithAndrew LuckJake LockerChristian PonderBlaine GabbartAndy DaltonJosh FreemanJason CampbellAaron RodgersByron Leftwitch I can list about 15 more who might have been a lot better if they had a system like Kelly's instead of being forced to play in a pure pocket passer offense'wdcrob said:Assuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years'ShaHBucks said:
Saying a Qb needs to move some & then mentioning Leftwhich as capable is sillyI have no idea who can do what in what offense I never thought Trent Dilfer could win a SB but he did. If you look at Gannon in his early years I'm sure you would have said he is terrible he will never take a team to the SB. If I had to pick right now I think Locker, Ponder, and Gabbart have a better shot of taking a Chip Kelly offense to a SB then Mike Vick does. I also think Campbell was screwed in his early years with different head coaches and OC every year who knows what he could have done with one coach in a offense that was suited for him. I think sometimes a Qb is just hurt or helped a lot by what team drafts him and allows him to what he does best. As for Leftwitch even though some forget he looked very good his rookie season then he got injured almost every year after and not minor injuries season ending onesByron Leftwich???'Nagle2998 said:Your making a list of running Qb's I don't think you have to be a pure runner to run Kelly system you just have to be able to move some. Alex SmithAndrew LuckJake LockerChristian PonderBlaine GabbartAndy DaltonJosh FreemanJason CampbellAaron RodgersByron Leftwitch I can list about 15 more who might have been a lot better if they had a system like Kelly's instead of being forced to play in a pure pocket passer offense'wdcrob said:Assuming you want a running QB who can truly threaten the defense if he gets loose I think there have been only a handful in the last fifteen years'ShaHBucks said:
He forgot Kordell Stewart. Guys like him and Vince Young should be the rebuttal to any idea of making mobility anything more than a secondary consideration when evaluating QBs. If the guy can't execute in the passing game, whatever else he can do doesn't matter.'loose circuits said:
I think its funny that while we went from Cunningham to McNabb to Vick I'd hear some fans saying off and on through that time that we need to get away from the running QB's and get a big pocket passer and as soon as we do we're kicking him back out the door for another running QB.
I can't speak for everyone but I'd say a majority of fans would like Foles as the QB for this year over Vick or Dixon.
For sure, I think everyone was on board with that until the Kelly hiring. I've been a big Vick fan, but this team needs to look towards the future and see if Foles is the real deal.
I'm prepared to let Foles go to Andy Reid ( i really feel there is an interest there)and get a Qb that can really run kelly's offense. I'd be happy with Smith, Nassib, or Manuel to either step right in or backup Vick until Vick gets hurt, which is always a possibility. let's face it, new coaches want 'their" guys, if (and i suspect he can) kelly can dish off Foles to the Chiefs I really would not be upset with a scenario where the Eagles trade Foles, their number 4 pick and another draft pick or so to the Chiefs and select Smith number one. Again, that assumes a lot, perhaps he trades Foles for a 2nd or 3rd round pick and uses that pick and their second to move back into the first round and follow up their first pick with Nassib, or Manuel. No matter what happens, I just think Foles isn't going to get that chance here, i could be wrong. it's a system fit, and you have to believe the coach is going to bring in the guys that he feels comfortable with.
First Kordell Stewart went to two AFC Championship games, a number one seed and won AFC offensive MVP yet he couldn't win a SB if the offense was taylor made for him yeah that sound like a great post. I would have added Stewart but I just did it off the top of my head and couldn't remember if he was drafted in the last 15 years. As for Leftwitch I never said he could run I just think he was pretty good at moving side to side I don't think Foles is but I have never been a huge Foles guy. I love posters who only add negative remarks it makes the boards so much better
What?! Why would they trade up to #1 for a guy that shouldn't be drafted till the mid first round?
From what I've heard, only Manuel can really run the system Kelly ran at Oregon... We have too many holes on this team, we need BPA at all our spots, not to be reaching for QB
I think Foles has OK (not good but OK) mobility he's just slow and there is a difference. You can't criticize his mobility if you're going to cite Leftwich and some of your other examples. Seems like you're stretching to justify what you've already decided.Not sure from the above if you're arguing for KS or against him but I always believed the Steelers succeeded despite him not because of. Like Vick early in his career the hype overshot his play by a long way. ESPN loves highlight plays, but that's not what wins games consistently.And if you think I only post negatively, you're not paying attention. I just disagree that mobility should be a big factor in evaluating quarterbacks.
That's why I am fine with not using our number 4 pick for a qb and using a second rounder (or a move back into the first round with other picks, maybe Foles compensation) and grabbing a manuel. Who would be unhappy if the Eagles grabbed a qb in the second round? Not me'babydemon90 said:
I would.There are much bigger needs then trading Foles then just trying to replace him with someone you hope can do what he did. We basically need a whole new defensive backfield, possible an OLB (or two) and 2 DL if/ when we cut Jenkins.and I think that's something the Eagles can address with a trade of Foles. If they get back a 3rd rounder for him (which is what it cost them last year) they'll essentially wash him with a 2nd round qb this year. Foles would have to learn kelly's system anyway, and he's not a true fit, so why anybody would be upset that Kelly would go in another direction makes no sense to me. I want him to get HIS QB to run HIS sysytem, and you have to see him addressing this in the first two rounds. He's an offensive genius, he'll address d as he goes along. the Eagles Offense and Defense were like 15th ranked last year, they both need improvement. Hey, if you're not excited that's too bad, I'm looking forward to the kelly eagles.
So get rid of a QB who you have that is a known quantity and cost controlled and use a higher round draft pick on an unknown QB that may or may not be able to play in the NFL when we have all those other needs? Plus I love not agreeing with you equals not excited about Kelly's Eagles. If anyone that didn't agree with your asinine logic wasn't allowed to be an Eagles fan, then they'd have to move the team for the lack of a fan base.and I think that's something the Eagles can address with a trade of Foles. If they get back a 3rd rounder for him (which is what it cost them last year) they'll essentially wash him with a 2nd round qb this year. Foles would have to learn kelly's system anyway, and he's not a true fit, so why anybody would be upset that Kelly would go in another direction makes no sense to me. I want him to get HIS QB to run HIS sysytem, and you have to see him addressing this in the first two rounds. He's an offensive genius, he'll address d as he goes along. the Eagles Offense and Defense were like 15th ranked last year, they both need improvement. Hey, if you're not excited that's too bad, I'm looking forward to the kelly eagles.
A second round qb this year won't cost much more than foles does now, so I don't understand cost control. Foles is a known quantity? Not in Kelly's system. Kelly kept Vick for a reason, foles is not likely to start. Relax with the asinine logic comment, message board tough guy.We shall see what happens, I'm just going to say I'm happy to have Kelly as the coach and expect he'll make the right calls .So get rid of a QB who you have that is a known quantity and cost controlled and use a higher round draft pick on an unknown QB that may or may not be able to play in the NFL when we have all those other needs? Plus I love not agreeing with you equals not excited about Kelly's Eagles. If anyone that didn't agree with your asinine logic wasn't allowed to be an Eagles fan, then they'd have to move the team for the lack of a fan base.and I think that's something the Eagles can address with a trade of Foles. If they get back a 3rd rounder for him (which is what it cost them last year) they'll essentially wash him with a 2nd round qb this year. Foles would have to learn kelly's system anyway, and he's not a true fit, so why anybody would be upset that Kelly would go in another direction makes no sense to me. I want him to get HIS QB to run HIS sysytem, and you have to see him addressing this in the first two rounds. He's an offensive genius, he'll address d as he goes along. the Eagles Offense and Defense were like 15th ranked last year, they both need improvement. Hey, if you're not excited that's too bad, I'm looking forward to the kelly eagles.
I'm the message board tough guy.'eefflrat said:A second round qb this year won't cost much more than foles does now, so I don't understand cost control. Foles is a known quantity? Not in Kelly's system. Kelly kept Vick for a reason, foles is not likely to start. Relax with the asinine logic comment, message board tough guy.We shall see what happens, I'm just going to say I'm happy to have Kelly as the coach and expect he'll make the right calls .'Insein said:So get rid of a QB who you have that is a known quantity and cost controlled and use a higher round draft pick on an unknown QB that may or may not be able to play in the NFL when we have all those other needs? Plus I love not agreeing with you equals not excited about Kelly's Eagles. If anyone that didn't agree with your asinine logic wasn't allowed to be an Eagles fan, then they'd have to move the team for the lack of a fan base.'eefflrat said:and I think that's something the Eagles can address with a trade of Foles. If they get back a 3rd rounder for him (which is what it cost them last year) they'll essentially wash him with a 2nd round qb this year. Foles would have to learn kelly's system anyway, and he's not a true fit, so why anybody would be upset that Kelly would go in another direction makes no sense to me. I want him to get HIS QB to run HIS sysytem, and you have to see him addressing this in the first two rounds. He's an offensive genius, he'll address d as he goes along. the Eagles Offense and Defense were like 15th ranked last year, they both need improvement. Hey, if you're not excited that's too bad, I'm looking forward to the kelly eagles.'Bigboy10182000 said:
And asinine logic is trading up to #1 to take Geno smith.
