*** 2013 Official Philadelphia Eagles - NFC EAST CHAMPS*** (2 Viewers)

[JetMaxx]

Considering Vick will be hurt by week 3, Foles is a great value play in fantasy drafts.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Switching gears a bit here from the Vick talk...

But just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the usage of James Casey so far this preseason? He was the big splash this off season, CK comparing his versatility to Aaron Hernandez... But he seems to have been rather invisible so far.

I expected the TEs in general to be targeted more. Especially with Maclin out. I never expected Casey to be great statistically. Have to wonder if he'll even replication his 34 reception output from HOU last year.

 

[Billy Bats]

So some of you guys are insinuating a Vick extension might be coming? :X

I don't think that at all. Roseman would have to be a fool. Vick is here for this year. How long he plays depends on his health. He'd have to be mvp candidate for him to still be here I would think.

Ok. So my next question would be are we winning the Super Bowl this year? And since I got so many no's on a Vick extension what's the point of him being here?

He was a cheap stop gap opportunity for Kelly apparently who was not sold on foles. I was rooting for foles and would have cut vick way back in march just to start fresh but he's here now and playing like the best qb on the team. So he'll start. I don't think that in anyway guarantees he's here beyond this season though.

I guess I just question that decision by Kelly then. I'm with you, I wouldn't have re-signed him and would have started my NFL coaching career fresh and trying to find the young QB to saddle up with for the forseeable future. I would have to think however, that by bringing Vick back to see how he performs that he would be thinking about going forward with him if he shows he can still play at a high level and works well under Kelly's system. The other part that scares me though is Vick was great with us when he was playing for his next contract, then #### the bed after he signed that big extension. I find it curious that he's "loving football again" and has played so well these two games. Seems like he might need to stay motivated.

 

[Pulp-Free O.J.]

Quick question.... Do you Philly Homers feel that Bryce Brown is going to get a lot of playing time alongside McCoy? Meaning, even if McCoy doesn't get hurt, will Brown be a fantasy flex starter with the up tempo offense that Kelly is running? Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[unckeyherb]

Quick question.... Do you Philly Homers feel that Bryce Brown is going to get a lot of playing time alongside McCoy? Meaning, even if McCoy doesn't get hurt, will Brown be a fantasy flex starter with the up tempo offense that Kelly is running? Thanks in advance for any input!

Not if he doesn't learn his protections and how to hold onto the ball. I was probably on of the biggest Brown supporters last year and still am. However, Polk seems to be moving ahead of him on the depth charts. FWIW Brown wasn't necessarily usurped last night-he had some hamsting issues and didn't dress. Thats why Polk was getting action with McCoy.

 

[thriftyrocker]

They ran 32 and 35 times over 2 weeks. I can guarantee McCoy won't run 30 times a game. Someone will get carries, and thus far Brown still looks better than Polk. Although Polk looks better than last year aside from the fumble last night.

 

[Amused to Death]

Quick question.... Do you Philly Homers feel that Bryce Brown is going to get a lot of playing time alongside McCoy? Meaning, even if McCoy doesn't get hurt, will Brown be a fantasy flex starter with the up tempo offense that Kelly is running? Thanks in advance for any input!

Not if he doesn't learn his protections and how to hold onto the ball. I was probably on of the biggest Brown supporters last year and still am. However, Polk seems to be moving ahead of him on the depth charts. FWIW Brown wasn't necessarily usurped last night-he had some hamsting issues and didn't dress. Thats why Polk was getting action with McCoy.

So far this preseason I've seen nothing that indicates BB's still fumbling. I've seen Polk make 1 nice block (last week) and a couple of so-so runs and his bad fumble last night. I can't find any more info regarding BBs mysterious quad injury (link posted last night). Don't know how bad he's hurt or if we'll see him in game 3.

I know Kelly's supposedly moved Polk up to even with BB, but I see a lot more upside to Brown - especially if he solved the fumbling. Really want to see something out of Brown in game 3.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

 

[Ash]

I've re-watched the first half so far and there is one area where Foles is doing a much better job than Vick. Through Foles two series he made the correct call on every play as far as whether to handoff or pull the ball and throw the screen. Vick has made a few clear errors on that front.

Here's an example where we have a clear 3 on 2 advantage to the top of the screen, but a 6 on 5 matchup in the Panther's favour in the box. The Panthers 2 Safeties are lined up so deep they're out of shot. This is the play Polk fumbled on, but that's not Vick's fault .

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/PreSnap_zps3a92175c.jpg

At the mesh point, they're optioning the DE (95) and you can see Johnson sinking behind his two WR blockers. The DE holds for a moment then pursues inside, but it's hard to know if he actually sees the handoff and is reacting to that, or just following the RB regardless.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Mesh_zps4349c7d2.jpg

In any case, the third image shows a couple of things, firstly yards of space for Johnson on a simple pitch and catch if Vick pulls the ball and runs triple option with the lateral to DJ. Secondly, the line does a good job and there's a nice lane for Polk. Because of the numbers mismatch 59 (Kuechly) is unblocked, but doesn't really impact the play. Possibly he's held by Vick's fake.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Option_zps5b63acaf.jpg

There was a similar incorrect numbers decision from Vick on a play where McCoy ran for a short gain, whereas I don't think Foles missed any of these calls. How this weights against Nick's two careless turnovers in Kelly's eyes is a guess but it's interesting at least.

 

[ShaHBucks]

I've re-watched the first half so far and there is one area where Foles is doing a much better job than Vick. Through Foles two series he made the correct call on every play as far as whether to handoff or pull the ball and throw the screen. Vick has made a few clear errors on that front.

Here's an example where we have a clear 3 on 2 advantage to the top of the screen, but a 6 on 5 matchup in the Panther's favour in the box. The Panthers 2 Safeties are lined up so deep they're out of shot. This is the play Polk fumbled on, but that's not Vick's fault .

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/PreSnap_zps3a92175c.jpg

At the mesh point, they're optioning the DE (95) and you can see Johnson sinking behind his two WR blockers. The DE holds for a moment then pursues inside, but it's hard to know if he actually sees the handoff and is reacting to that, or just following the RB regardless.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Mesh_zps4349c7d2.jpg

In any case, the third image shows a couple of things, firstly yards of space for Johnson on a simple pitch and catch if Vick pulls the ball and runs triple option with the lateral to DJ. Secondly, the line does a good job and there's a nice lane for Polk. Because of the numbers mismatch 59 (Kuechly) is unblocked, but doesn't really impact the play. Possibly he's held by Vick's fake.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Option_zps5b63acaf.jpg

There was a similar incorrect numbers decision from Vick on a play where McCoy ran for a short gain, whereas I don't think Foles missed any of these calls. How this weights against Nick's two careless turnovers in Kelly's eyes is a guess but it's interesting at least.

Vick didn't make the wrong call. The play is designed for the DE to be unblocked to put the numbers back in our favor. If the DE pursues Polk, Vick is supposed to keep the ball and run outside. If the DE freezes because of Vick it's back to 5 vs 5 and running is the right option depending on how far the safties drop. Vick always has the option to throw to the flat like you mentioned. The O-Line/WRs have no clue what option Vick will chose so they are just blocking the same way regardless.

 

[Ash]

Vick didn't make the wrong call. The play is designed for the DE to be unblocked to put the numbers back in our favor. If the DE pursues Polk, Vick is supposed to keep the ball and run outside. If the DE freezes because of Vick it's back to 5 vs 5 and running is the right option depending on how far the safties drop. Vick always has the option to throw to the flat like you mentioned. The O-Line/WRs have no clue what option Vick will chose so they are just blocking the same way regardless.

I know how the option works, the DE did pursue inside but it's hard to say if he'd seen Polk take the ball or not. The point of having that screen option in the play is to go where there's a numbers advantage, and that was to the outside. Even accepting that Vick accounted for the DE that only makes the numbers even, and Kuechly was still unblocked as Herremans was slow to come off the double on the RDT.

The Salas TD from the first game is an example of where they took the 2-1 matchup outside. The play just didn't look good because of Igwenagu's awful block.

You disagree with me & that's fine, none of us really knows how the play's supposed to be run but if the point of that option package isn't to take that free man when it's there, then when should they go to it?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@JordanRaanan: Bennie Logan looks great on tape again here. Natural in this system. IMO, Eagles best defensive lineman by wide margin this summer. #eagles

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@JordanRaanan: Eagles can sleep better @ night knowing Allen Barbre can at least be serviceable LT if Jason Peters hurt. Barbre playing real well right now

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@JordanRaanan: Lane Johnson looks like he's going to be a stud. Feet are tremendous. May have some trouble w/power rushers this yr but BIG future. #eagles

 

[32 Counter Pass]

What is the story with Bryce Brown? Has Polk passed him as the #2RB, or is he hurt?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Like this:

@SheilKapadia: McCoy: "It was crazy because I saw how tired the defense was." Kelly has offensive players buying in. http://t.co/owrcGeJvf0

And this one:

@MoveTheSticks: Good stuff->@SheilKapadia: How Chip Kelly is using a 4-TE package to create mismatches. "Anything they do, we win." http://t.co/S6qAIIoupH

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@EliotShorrParks: Matt Barkley is averaging just 2.39 seconds from snap-to-decision this preseason. That's a full second (3.41) faster than Vick #Eagles

 

[Pip's Invitation]

What is the story with Bryce Brown? Has Polk passed him as the #2RB, or is he hurt?

Quad injury. Expected to play next week.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@EliotShorrParks: How much did Vick pay to a PR firm when he was released from jail? Hint: Its a lot. #Eagles http://t.co/aIuLGMWqo8

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@RoobCSN: Who is Allen Barbre & why has he been one of the Eagles' biggest preseason surprises? Good piece by @wisniewski_mike: http://t.co/jac2RCAV8r

 

[Maggot Brain]

Training Camp: Best 5 and worst 5 performers and Eagles camp.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Eagles-training-camp-2013-The-5-best-and-5-worst-performances-at-Eagles-camp.html

 

[Ash]

Here's another interesting play I noticed from the Panthers game. Pre snap alignment, nothing unusual here.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Pre-Snap_zps453983b6.jpg

You can see at the mesh though, it looks like a read option play with a couple of differences. Firstly there's no packaged screen on the outside, the WRs have all gone directly out to block the defender over them. Second, the open man is 97, but he's on the side McCoy's running to, not the QB side as is usual. I'm not sure if there's an option on this play, because of what they do with Mathis.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Mesh_zps53295aa9.jpg

Mathis pulled to the right at the snap. Looks here like he's checking that B gap before heading outside to look for a block, shown here:

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/ashleyleask1/Run_zps0bbe660d.jpg

It didn't work all that well, 97 did a good job not being fooled by the Shady fake and chasing Vick down the line. This misdirection on this play could also have factored into McCoy's TD run on the next play, when it looked like the Panthers over reacted to Cooper's motion and the option threat on the right side.

Basically this looks like a misdirection QB lead with a pulling guard out in front. Completely different to the QB Power Chip Kelly would never run.

Edit: Is image embedding with the

tag banned or something? They show in Preview mode but disappear when I post.

 

[Insein]

Sounds like Vick is getting a majority of the snaps and will play the first half on Saturday. Even though the press is going out of their mind that Kelly won't name a starter, Kelly seems to be saying it with his actions. He doesn't need to name one if the players in the locker room know what's going on. The media needs to chill on this one. Vick is probably the starter already in the locker room.

 

[unckeyherb]

Mike and Ike reporting that Vick has been named the week 1 starter...

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@fduffy3: RT @EaglesInsider: Kelly says after evaluation, Vick will be the team's starting quarterback.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@EliotShorrParks: #Eagles RT @ZBerm: Chip: "This is a one-quarterback operation. This isn't going to be someone's going to look over their shoulder."

 

[Billy Bats]

At this point its not shocking, but I was very, very wrong.

 

[ShaHBucks]

No sht Chip

 

[Snotbubbles]

Excited about the offense. Defense still sucks.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

At this point its not shocking, but I was very, very wrong.

Me as well. I don't feel completly wrong since Foles did play well.

Vick earned it, plain and simple.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Excited about the offense. Defense still sucks.

I'm not going to judge them too much in the pre-season even though I was impressed a bit in the Carolina game.

 

[Amused to Death]

@fduffy3: RT @EaglesInsider: Kelly says after evaluation, Vick will be the team's starting quarterback.

I hope Vick makes the Eagles serious contenders this year or its another year wasted for QB evaluation and development. If they win 7 games with Vick as QB I'll be ticked.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

@fduffy3: RT @EaglesInsider: Kelly says after evaluation, Vick will be the team's starting quarterback.

I hope Vick makes the Eagles serious contenders this year or its another year wasted for QB evaluation and development. If they win 7 games with Vick as QB I'll be ticked.

Thats my exact feeling. I do not think this move puts us any closer to a Super Bowl. I believe this move actually puts it at least a year further off. Completely bummed.

 

[dhockster]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

 

[Amused to Death]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

Which is why starting him makes no sense to me. IMO, QB evaluation >>>2013 record.

 

[JetMaxx]

In other news, by naming Vick the week 1 starter Kelly named Foles the week 4 starter.

 

[Deamon]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

Which is why starting him makes no sense to me. IMO, QB evaluation >>>2013 record.

We all get your stance on this already. But Kelly is obviously starting Vick for many reasons.

1. You don't just purposely tank your team in order to get a better draft spot. With such parody in the league, you never know what can happen and you have to field your best team possible each year. Do I think we have a shot at the SB? No, probably not, but I wouldn't ever suggest using a season to try out some players rather then try to win. Chips a competative guy, its not in his nature to not try to win every game, and Vick gives us the best chance to win right now.

2. Chip is a new coach in the league, and as such, you don't exactly want to mess around with your first season being a total failure. Yes, he knows its a rebuild year in a sense, but imagine if we go 3-13 with Foles, everyone will be screaming about how Kellys game doesn't transition into the NFL, and how he's spurrier 2.0. However, if he plays vick and gets us say 8 wins, that's a nice improvement and step in the right direction and it will look good on Kelly.

3. Who is to REALLY say that Foles has more of a shot to be the qb of the future then vick does? Vick still isn't old, and despite his inconsistency and injury concerns, there IS still a CHANCE that he lights it up this year, gets an extension, and is our qb going forward. Vick can be developed in this system too, and Kelly obviously thinks that's a possibility. We are all quick to say vick is 100% not our future, so maybe he IS using the season for QB evaluation like you want, just not with the QB you want. Foles has had plenty of time this offseason to be evaluated, and show he can be the future of this team and he failed to do so as much as Vick did.

At the end of the day, we all wanted Vick to not be handed the job and have to win it. And he did that, and by a wide margin. If it was close I could see your dilemma, but Vick won it outright, and having a competative successful season is a GOOD thing for a rebuilding team.... and can often create better things for their future then losing a ton of games and getting a better draft pick. You don't really see a clearly superior qb being benched in the nfl until your team is out of the playoffs, and you're suggesting we do this with an 0-0 record. The one time I can think of this happening was the Flutie/Johnson thing and that didn't work out too well for them.

 

[JuniorNB]

I see a monster year for Vick.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

At that point Vick is trade bait if he can't take us to another level. You can't treat him like you would Foles/Barkley, there is no excuses at 33.

 

[Amused to Death]

We all get your stance on this already. But Kelly is obviously starting Vick for many reasons.

1. You don't just purposely tank your team in order to get a better draft spot. With such parody in the league, you never know what can happen and you have to field your best team possible each year. Do I think we have a shot at the SB? No, probably not, but I wouldn't ever suggest using a season to try out some players rather then try to win. Chips a competative guy, its not in his nature to not try to win every game, and Vick gives us the best chance to win right now.

I didn't say anything about 'tanking'. I'm thinking long range. I'm really not interested in a 7 win season vs. a 5 win season. I'd rather win 4 or 5 games and know for sure if Foles or Barkley have a future here.

2. Chip is a new coach in the league, and as such, you don't exactly want to mess around with your first season being a total failure. Yes, he knows its a rebuild year in a sense, but imagine if we go 3-13 with Foles, everyone will be screaming about how Kellys game doesn't transition into the NFL, and how he's spurrier 2.0. However, if he plays vick and gets us say 8 wins, that's a nice improvement and step in the right direction and it will look good on Kelly.

Why would a season with Foles or Barkley be a failure? If he knows this is a rebuild year, why start 33 year old instead of the younger guys (one of whom he drafted)with potential upside? Isn't that part of rebuilding, evaluating the talent on the roster?

3. Who is to REALLY say that Foles has more of a shot to be the qb of the future then vick does? Vick still isn't old, and despite his inconsistency and injury concerns, there IS still a CHANCE that he lights it up this year, gets an extension, and is our qb going forward. Vick can be developed in this system too, and Kelly obviously thinks that's a possibility. We are all quick to say vick is 100% not our future, so maybe he IS using the season for QB evaluation like you want, just not with the QB you want. Foles has had plenty of time this offseason to be evaluated, and show he can be the future of this team and he failed to do so as much as Vick did.

You really think Foles' TC and preseason has been a failure? I disagree. Vick's looked better, but Foles' has been far from a failure imo.

At the end of the day, we all wanted Vick to not be handed the job and have to win it. And he did that, and by a wide margin. If it was close I could see your dilemma, but Vick won it outright, and having a competative successful season is a GOOD thing for a rebuilding team.... and can often create better things for their future then losing a ton of games and getting a better draft pick. You don't really see a clearly superior qb being benched in the nfl until your team is out of the playoffs, and you're suggesting we do this with an 0-0 record. The one time I can think of this happening was the Flutie/Johnson thing and that didn't work out too well for them.

I disagree Vick won by a wide margin. He played better, no doubt. Not by a wide margin.

 

[Deamon]

We all get your stance on this already. But Kelly is obviously starting Vick for many reasons.

1. You don't just purposely tank your team in order to get a better draft spot. With such parody in the league, you never know what can happen and you have to field your best team possible each year. Do I think we have a shot at the SB? No, probably not, but I wouldn't ever suggest using a season to try out some players rather then try to win. Chips a competative guy, its not in his nature to not try to win every game, and Vick gives us the best chance to win right now.

I didn't say anything about 'tanking'. I'm thinking long range. I'm really not interested in a 7 win season vs. a 5 win season. I'd rather win 4 or 5 games and know for sure if Foles or Barkley have a future here.

2. Chip is a new coach in the league, and as such, you don't exactly want to mess around with your first season being a total failure. Yes, he knows its a rebuild year in a sense, but imagine if we go 3-13 with Foles, everyone will be screaming about how Kellys game doesn't transition into the NFL, and how he's spurrier 2.0. However, if he plays vick and gets us say 8 wins, that's a nice improvement and step in the right direction and it will look good on Kelly.

Why would a season with Foles or Barkley be a failure? If he knows this is a rebuild year, why start 33 year old instead of the younger guys (one of whom he drafted)with potential upside? Isn't that part of rebuilding, evaluating the talent on the roster?

3. Who is to REALLY say that Foles has more of a shot to be the qb of the future then vick does? Vick still isn't old, and despite his inconsistency and injury concerns, there IS still a CHANCE that he lights it up this year, gets an extension, and is our qb going forward. Vick can be developed in this system too, and Kelly obviously thinks that's a possibility. We are all quick to say vick is 100% not our future, so maybe he IS using the season for QB evaluation like you want, just not with the QB you want. Foles has had plenty of time this offseason to be evaluated, and show he can be the future of this team and he failed to do so as much as Vick did.

You really think Foles' TC and preseason has been a failure? I disagree. Vick's looked better, but Foles' has been far from a failure imo.

At the end of the day, we all wanted Vick to not be handed the job and have to win it. And he did that, and by a wide margin. If it was close I could see your dilemma, but Vick won it outright, and having a competative successful season is a GOOD thing for a rebuilding team.... and can often create better things for their future then losing a ton of games and getting a better draft pick. You don't really see a clearly superior qb being benched in the nfl until your team is out of the playoffs, and you're suggesting we do this with an 0-0 record. The one time I can think of this happening was the Flutie/Johnson thing and that didn't work out too well for them.

I disagree Vick won by a wide margin. He played better, no doubt. Not by a wide margin.

All reports out of camp were that it wasn't as close of a race as some vick-haters may like to say. Look, it's easy to judge from home, but I'm willing to bet that Kelly who has seen them both every day, and watched them compete, is by far a better judge on this then you or I. Kelly is not dumb, do you not think that he has considered all of your points above? Do you not think all these things have crossed his mind but that he is still making the decision he thinks is best for this team this year and long term?

I never said Foles' was a failure, I said he "failed to do so as much as Vick". Maybe Kelly saw that Foles didn't have it in him to be the starter he wanted in the future. I am confident Chip has a long term plan here and he isn't just making thoughtless decisions about this teams future. Let's give him a bit of benefit of the doubt here, he's the expert, not us.

I still think a 7-8 win season is better for the team long term then a 4-5 win season (taking draft pick out of the picture). There's a lot of people on this roster, its about evaluating them as well as just the qb. Maybe Vick is executing Chip's offense MUCH better then foles would, so having vick at qb will allow him to evaluate the potential of some WR's, RB's, TE's, etc working the system that Kelly really wants to implement. Maybe Foles just couldn't grasp fully what Chip wants to do and having him in for the season would be a wasted year as well, one where next year if he gets a different qb, the other skill positions will again have to readjust to a new system. These are all maybe's, but they are possibilities and things I'm sure our coach has thought about and evaluated. He took FOREVER to name a starter, he obviously had lots of time to make these calls, and I'm going to trust that he's making the right decision.

Vick has a great opportunity to light it up this year, which could become trade bait, or he could show he IS the answer semi-long term for us. And if he has a mediocre season like you expect him to (which is entirely a good possibility), then Foles is right there waiting to step in.

Barkley on the other hand I don't agree with. He was going to be the 3rd qb regardless of which was named starter, so I think using him as an example of wanting to evaluate him and start him this year is fairly far fetched.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

Which is why starting him makes no sense to me. IMO, QB evaluation >>>2013 record.

We all get your stance on this already. But Kelly is obviously starting Vick for many reasons.

1. You don't just purposely tank your team in order to get a better draft spot. With such parody in the league, you never know what can happen and you have to field your best team possible each year. Do I think we have a shot at the SB? No, probably not, but I wouldn't ever suggest using a season to try out some players rather then try to win. Chips a competative guy, its not in his nature to not try to win every game, and Vick gives us the best chance to win right now.

2. Chip is a new coach in the league, and as such, you don't exactly want to mess around with your first season being a total failure. Yes, he knows its a rebuild year in a sense, but imagine if we go 3-13 with Foles, everyone will be screaming about how Kellys game doesn't transition into the NFL, and how he's spurrier 2.0. However, if he plays vick and gets us say 8 wins, that's a nice improvement and step in the right direction and it will look good on Kelly.

3. Who is to REALLY say that Foles has more of a shot to be the qb of the future then vick does? Vick still isn't old, and despite his inconsistency and injury concerns, there IS still a CHANCE that he lights it up this year, gets an extension, and is our qb going forward. Vick can be developed in this system too, and Kelly obviously thinks that's a possibility. We are all quick to say vick is 100% not our future, so maybe he IS using the season for QB evaluation like you want, just not with the QB you want. Foles has had plenty of time this offseason to be evaluated, and show he can be the future of this team and he failed to do so as much as Vick did.

At the end of the day, we all wanted Vick to not be handed the job and have to win it. And he did that, and by a wide margin. If it was close I could see your dilemma, but Vick won it outright, and having a competative successful season is a GOOD thing for a rebuilding team.... and can often create better things for their future then losing a ton of games and getting a better draft pick. You don't really see a clearly superior qb being benched in the nfl until your team is out of the playoffs, and you're suggesting we do this with an 0-0 record. The one time I can think of this happening was the Flutie/Johnson thing and that didn't work out too well for them.

*sigh* The only 30 year old with a excuse to be a development at this point of their career is Weeden and even he is a mistake. Starting VIck says we are in position to win now. Just judging where the franchise has went since Vick took over, he has been a waste of time and a huge mistake. There is nothing worse than being stuck with a mediocre QB and not noticing. I'd rather move on with the rebuild.

From a Chip Kelly standpoint he played this correctly. He got a chance to see if he can work magic with MV and he brought the best out of him. As of now there is nothing to complain about until Vick is on the same field with Kerrigan and Orakpo.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

All reports out of camp were that it wasn't as close of a race as some vick-haters may like to say. Look, it's easy to judge from home, but I'm willing to bet that Kelly who has seen them both every day, and watched them compete, is by far a better judge on this then you or I. Kelly is not dumb, do you not think that he has considered all of your points above? Do you not think all these things have crossed his mind but that he is still making the decision he thinks is best for this team this year and long term?

I never said Foles' was a failure, I said he "failed to do so as much as Vick". Maybe Kelly saw that Foles didn't have it in him to be the starter he wanted in the future. I am confident Chip has a long term plan here and he isn't just making thoughtless decisions about this teams future. Let's give him a bit of benefit of the doubt here, he's the expert, not us.

I still think a 7-8 win season is better for the team long term then a 4-5 win season (taking draft pick out of the picture). There's a lot of people on this roster, its about evaluating them as well as just the qb. Maybe Vick is executing Chip's offense MUCH better then foles would, so having vick at qb will allow him to evaluate the potential of some WR's, RB's, TE's, etc working the system that Kelly really wants to implement. Maybe Foles just couldn't grasp fully what Chip wants to do and having him in for the season would be a wasted year as well, one where next year if he gets a different qb, the other skill positions will again have to readjust to a new system. These are all maybe's, but they are possibilities and things I'm sure our coach has thought about and evaluated. He took FOREVER to name a starter, he obviously had lots of time to make these calls, and I'm going to trust that he's making the right decision.

Vick has a great opportunity to light it up this year, which could become trade bait, or he could show he IS the answer semi-long term for us. And if he has a mediocre season like you expect him to (which is entirely a good possibility), then Foles is right there waiting to step in.

Barkley on the other hand I don't agree with. He was going to be the 3rd qb regardless of which was named starter, so I think using him as an example of wanting to evaluate him and start him this year is fairly far fetched.

Could you please explain the bolded? If it wasnt that close then why wait? I didnt see anyone report that it wasnt close at all.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

Which is why starting him makes no sense to me. IMO, QB evaluation >>>2013 record.

We all get your stance on this already. But Kelly is obviously starting Vick for many reasons.

1. You don't just purposely tank your team in order to get a better draft spot. With such parody in the league, you never know what can happen and you have to field your best team possible each year. Do I think we have a shot at the SB? No, probably not, but I wouldn't ever suggest using a season to try out some players rather then try to win. Chips a competative guy, its not in his nature to not try to win every game, and Vick gives us the best chance to win right now.

2. Chip is a new coach in the league, and as such, you don't exactly want to mess around with your first season being a total failure. Yes, he knows its a rebuild year in a sense, but imagine if we go 3-13 with Foles, everyone will be screaming about how Kellys game doesn't transition into the NFL, and how he's spurrier 2.0. However, if he plays vick and gets us say 8 wins, that's a nice improvement and step in the right direction and it will look good on Kelly.

3. Who is to REALLY say that Foles has more of a shot to be the qb of the future then vick does? Vick still isn't old, and despite his inconsistency and injury concerns, there IS still a CHANCE that he lights it up this year, gets an extension, and is our qb going forward. Vick can be developed in this system too, and Kelly obviously thinks that's a possibility. We are all quick to say vick is 100% not our future, so maybe he IS using the season for QB evaluation like you want, just not with the QB you want. Foles has had plenty of time this offseason to be evaluated, and show he can be the future of this team and he failed to do so as much as Vick did.

At the end of the day, we all wanted Vick to not be handed the job and have to win it. And he did that, and by a wide margin. If it was close I could see your dilemma, but Vick won it outright, and having a competative successful season is a GOOD thing for a rebuilding team.... and can often create better things for their future then losing a ton of games and getting a better draft pick. You don't really see a clearly superior qb being benched in the nfl until your team is out of the playoffs, and you're suggesting we do this with an 0-0 record. The one time I can think of this happening was the Flutie/Johnson thing and that didn't work out too well for them.

I'm all for Vick winning the position but I cant believe people still think like this. It's unbelievable to me actually.

He's a bridge...plain and simple and I'm OK with it

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I see a monster year for Vick.

I see a monster year for the running game actually. If the OL keeps looking as good as they have and gets a healthy Peters back the combo of Shady, Brown and Polk along with the TE's will be destroying winded D's later on in games.

 

[Deamon]

All reports out of camp were that it wasn't as close of a race as some vick-haters may like to say. Look, it's easy to judge from home, but I'm willing to bet that Kelly who has seen them both every day, and watched them compete, is by far a better judge on this then you or I. Kelly is not dumb, do you not think that he has considered all of your points above? Do you not think all these things have crossed his mind but that he is still making the decision he thinks is best for this team this year and long term?

I never said Foles' was a failure, I said he "failed to do so as much as Vick". Maybe Kelly saw that Foles didn't have it in him to be the starter he wanted in the future. I am confident Chip has a long term plan here and he isn't just making thoughtless decisions about this teams future. Let's give him a bit of benefit of the doubt here, he's the expert, not us.

I still think a 7-8 win season is better for the team long term then a 4-5 win season (taking draft pick out of the picture). There's a lot of people on this roster, its about evaluating them as well as just the qb. Maybe Vick is executing Chip's offense MUCH better then foles would, so having vick at qb will allow him to evaluate the potential of some WR's, RB's, TE's, etc working the system that Kelly really wants to implement. Maybe Foles just couldn't grasp fully what Chip wants to do and having him in for the season would be a wasted year as well, one where next year if he gets a different qb, the other skill positions will again have to readjust to a new system. These are all maybe's, but they are possibilities and things I'm sure our coach has thought about and evaluated. He took FOREVER to name a starter, he obviously had lots of time to make these calls, and I'm going to trust that he's making the right decision.

Vick has a great opportunity to light it up this year, which could become trade bait, or he could show he IS the answer semi-long term for us. And if he has a mediocre season like you expect him to (which is entirely a good possibility), then Foles is right there waiting to step in.

Barkley on the other hand I don't agree with. He was going to be the 3rd qb regardless of which was named starter, so I think using him as an example of wanting to evaluate him and start him this year is fairly far fetched.

Could you please explain the bolded? If it wasnt that close then why wait? I didnt see anyone report that it wasnt close at all.

I'm not sure why they waited... I think Kelly really wanted to make sure there was a 0% chance Foles could beat Vick out. Again, you'd have to ask Chip that, not me. I dont have any of the links to reports, but I will try to find some. However, most beat writers, tweets from camp observers, etc, were all saying that Vick was "way ahead" of Foles, and for weeks he's been taking most if not almost all of first team reps, that he's looked fantastic in camp. It was only a matter of time before Chip 'officially' announced it, but from everything I saw, it was not a neck and neck close competition by any stretch.

 

[Billy Bats]

At this point its not shocking, but I was very, very wrong.

Me as well. I don't feel completly wrong since Foles did play well.

Vick earned it, plain and simple.

Well considering I stated that Vick wouldn't be on the opening day roster, I was COMPLETELY wrong! But I'm still on the bus with amused and buddyball, maybe they shock me and make the playoffs but I think we're wasting time. I just fear an extension, then Vick reverting back to being Vick as soon as he gets paid again.

 

[Deamon]

Looking at the schedule a slow start is likely. WAS, SD, KC, DEN, NYG, TB, DAL, NYG are the first 8 games, and you have to face RG3 and Rodgers before the week 12 bye. Vick can't keep the job with a 3-5 or worse start. He has no room to pull his usual bs if he wants to get paid. We will be here typing away until we get carpal tunnel for the team to move on with Nick Foles(or Barkley but he sucks). Vick has to play on another level not to hand the job back to Foles in 2014 at minimum. A contract extention now is asinine basing it off of 30 preseason snaps and not years of poor play. He will be great for FF for his running though.

This year, I think that is an incorrect statement. especially if Vick is playing well, the offense is clicking, and the Eagles are losing because their defense can't stop anybody. Vick will lose the starting job if he is playing poorly or if he is hurt. Record will be a secondary consideration.

Which is why starting him makes no sense to me. IMO, QB evaluation >>>2013 record.

We all get your stance on this already. But Kelly is obviously starting Vick for many reasons.

1. You don't just purposely tank your team in order to get a better draft spot. With such parody in the league, you never know what can happen and you have to field your best team possible each year. Do I think we have a shot at the SB? No, probably not, but I wouldn't ever suggest using a season to try out some players rather then try to win. Chips a competative guy, its not in his nature to not try to win every game, and Vick gives us the best chance to win right now.

2. Chip is a new coach in the league, and as such, you don't exactly want to mess around with your first season being a total failure. Yes, he knows its a rebuild year in a sense, but imagine if we go 3-13 with Foles, everyone will be screaming about how Kellys game doesn't transition into the NFL, and how he's spurrier 2.0. However, if he plays vick and gets us say 8 wins, that's a nice improvement and step in the right direction and it will look good on Kelly.

3. Who is to REALLY say that Foles has more of a shot to be the qb of the future then vick does? Vick still isn't old, and despite his inconsistency and injury concerns, there IS still a CHANCE that he lights it up this year, gets an extension, and is our qb going forward. Vick can be developed in this system too, and Kelly obviously thinks that's a possibility. We are all quick to say vick is 100% not our future, so maybe he IS using the season for QB evaluation like you want, just not with the QB you want. Foles has had plenty of time this offseason to be evaluated, and show he can be the future of this team and he failed to do so as much as Vick did.

At the end of the day, we all wanted Vick to not be handed the job and have to win it. And he did that, and by a wide margin. If it was close I could see your dilemma, but Vick won it outright, and having a competative successful season is a GOOD thing for a rebuilding team.... and can often create better things for their future then losing a ton of games and getting a better draft pick. You don't really see a clearly superior qb being benched in the nfl until your team is out of the playoffs, and you're suggesting we do this with an 0-0 record. The one time I can think of this happening was the Flutie/Johnson thing and that didn't work out too well for them.

I'm all for Vick winning the position but I cant believe people still think like this. It's unbelievable to me actually.

He's a bridge...plain and simple and I'm OK with it

I'm not at ALL suggesting that Vick will be the future of this team, nor do I think he will be. I am saying that there is a CHANCE he can develop in Kellys system, and there is a CHANCE that he will be our starter for the next few years. Word around the Eagles is that if he kills it this year as much as he has been in camp/preseason, then there's a good chance he's our starter next year too. Obviously injuries are a massive concern, as his ball protection and turnovers, and I'm not dismissing those things, but I was defending Kellys decision to have him start this year, which you agree with. He claims to have his passion for the game reborn under this system and loves how it has affected his game, so heck who knows lets all hope this isn't just bs and cheer for our team and hope he becomes a quality starter this year.

 

[Deamon]

At this point its not shocking, but I was very, very wrong.

Me as well. I don't feel completly wrong since Foles did play well.

Vick earned it, plain and simple.

Well considering I stated that Vick wouldn't be on the opening day roster, I was COMPLETELY wrong! But I'm still on the bus with amused and buddyball, maybe they shock me and make the playoffs but I think we're wasting time. I just fear an extension, then Vick reverting back to being Vick as soon as he gets paid again.

This is a possibility, and I fear that too. But Kelly can't let that fear take over the fact that Vick is clearly right now the best person to help the team win games, and that should be the #1 goal of this team right now, even in a 'rebuild'. If we are eliminated, or things aren't working, then Kelly can make the change. It's part of his learning curve as an NFL coach too, being able to pick the best player for the team, make adjustments and tough calls throughout the season as he sees fit. I hope Vick shows us some things he never has before and can be a starter with us for years, but I am skeptical of that and don't see it happening. Regardless, he's clearly the best man for the job this year... we have a fresh start in Philly so maybe the fans need to do the same and actually start CHEERING for their team rather then secretly hoping Andy/Vick fails and cheering against them. I'm personally excited to watch this offense and see how it looks with Vick.