eaglesfan7
Footballguy
Concerning? We're going to get torched week in and week out. The only reason the secondary may seem okay is because teams are gutting us on the ground.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
*** 2013 Official Philadelphia Eagles - NFC EAST CHAMPS*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Insein
- Start date
Ash
Footballguy
I'm not going to launch the lifeboats after one preseason game, but it certainly wasn't a good start.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Those "quick decisions" are predesigned. I hated the pick and he show why. He won't get by in the NFL with his game.
cstu
Footballguy
Shepard's got some long-term potential but after that game it was obvious he's not a starting NFL receiver yet.A few things I noticed during the game, player wise firstly:
Russell Shephard - looks a lot like a guy learning how to play WR. Had a couple of "don't know what I'm doing" moments. Ran the inside route out of a bunch formation against man coverage, but pulled the slant up short and Barkley threw out in front, expecting him to keep going. On a deep ball down the left sideline, made the classic inexperience mistake of turning his body back to the QB once the ball was in the air rather than catching over his shoulder. Because of the ball placement he needed to turn and find it over his outside shoulder without losing speed, instead he turned his body, which stopped him and the ball went high. He can't be on the roster, just too inexperienced to be put on the field, but a good practice squad candidate.
Greg Salas -He's WR#5 for me.
Salas was a surprise and looks like the best bet to unseat Cooper as the #2 right now.
Awful Waffle
Footballguy
I agree he's probably not a starting receiver now, but Matt Barkley did him no favors. I'd like to see him and Salas get some work with the first team.Shepard's got some long-term potential but after that game it was obvious he's not a starting NFL receiver yet.A few things I noticed during the game, player wise firstly:
Russell Shephard - looks a lot like a guy learning how to play WR. Had a couple of "don't know what I'm doing" moments. Ran the inside route out of a bunch formation against man coverage, but pulled the slant up short and Barkley threw out in front, expecting him to keep going. On a deep ball down the left sideline, made the classic inexperience mistake of turning his body back to the QB once the ball was in the air rather than catching over his shoulder. Because of the ball placement he needed to turn and find it over his outside shoulder without losing speed, instead he turned his body, which stopped him and the ball went high. He can't be on the roster, just too inexperienced to be put on the field, but a good practice squad candidate.
Greg Salas -
Awful Waffle
Footballguy
I thought the line was solid, but Jason Peters takes them from being a pretty good line to a top line if he's back to where he was in 2011. He's a game changer. Even before all the injuries last year, the line was night and day with Dunlap or Bell at LT.
Also agree with Ash RE: Herremans. He's on the wrong side of 30. Something to keep an eye on with him being next to a rookie RT who for all his upside, is still raw.
Ash
Footballguy
I think they hurt each other at times, neither is ready to be on the field.I agree he's probably not a starting receiver now, but Matt Barkley did him no favors. I'd like to see him and Salas get some work with the first team.Shepard's got some long-term potential but after that game it was obvious he's not a starting NFL receiver yet.A few things I noticed during the game, player wise firstly:
Russell Shephard - looks a lot like a guy learning how to play WR. Had a couple of "don't know what I'm doing" moments. Ran the inside route out of a bunch formation against man coverage, but pulled the slant up short and Barkley threw out in front, expecting him to keep going. On a deep ball down the left sideline, made the classic inexperience mistake of turning his body back to the QB once the ball was in the air rather than catching over his shoulder. Because of the ball placement he needed to turn and find it over his outside shoulder without losing speed, instead he turned his body, which stopped him and the ball went high. He can't be on the roster, just too inexperienced to be put on the field, but a good practice squad candidate.
Greg Salas -
Ash
Footballguy
i like this, and hope they work him in with the #1s against the Panthers. Cooper struggled last year to separate from NFL CBs and averaged about 2 catches for 30 odd yards in the games he started.Shepard's got some long-term potential but after that game it was obvious he's not a starting NFL receiver yet.A few things I noticed during the game, player wise firstly:
Russell Shephard - looks a lot like a guy learning how to play WR. Had a couple of "don't know what I'm doing" moments. Ran the inside route out of a bunch formation against man coverage, but pulled the slant up short and Barkley threw out in front, expecting him to keep going. On a deep ball down the left sideline, made the classic inexperience mistake of turning his body back to the QB once the ball was in the air rather than catching over his shoulder. Because of the ball placement he needed to turn and find it over his outside shoulder without losing speed, instead he turned his body, which stopped him and the ball went high. He can't be on the roster, just too inexperienced to be put on the field, but a good practice squad candidate.
Greg Salas -
Salas was a surprise and looks like the best bet to unseat Cooper as the #2 right now.
I've done some looking at the PFF numbers for WR targets. Top WRs like Megatron and Brandon Marshall get targeted about 30-32% of the time they run a route (and I understand both those teams don't have many other options), good #1 WRs like Reggie Wayne, Roddy White etc get targeted about 25% of the time. Last year Maclin led the Eagles at 18%, Cooper was targeted 13% of the time he ran a pass route once he took over. To me that means he struggles to get himself open which matches what I thought watching last year. Salas is only slightly less experienced than Cooper so nothing much lost there.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
80%Most of the quotes from writers and eagles staff took a next man up approach after Maclin's injury. RC was already "next" and was reportedly having a great camp, as usual. He usually starts when Maclin/Jackson missed games in the past. In 2012 he avg 70ypg with Vince Young starting iirc. Last season he was coming off of a injury and the team circumstances wasn't ideal, but he did manage .4 TDs with Foles starting. Personally, I'd only invest in him if Foles starts. That doesn't look to likely now, but it's TBD.
Greg Salas is a real threat. If he finishes the preseason strong I'd put Cooper's chances at 65/35. They both have different styles and bring more size to the table than the Eagles have traditionally use. It could be a matter of recency/preference.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I never said I was optimistic. I don't know what they will look like. My guess is horrible if they don't execute. All I said was the foundation is there to be solid. Barwin, Phillips and Chung are upgrades. Even though Namdi and DRC played like #### I consider Fletcher and Williams downgrades. If the CBs can't cover that's trouble. I think Kendricks is a star to be. If it takes three years like you think than ok, but the groundwork has been laid for a hybrid defense like Kelly ran at Oregon ~~> http://youtu.be/ID84WwJO-60Who exactly don't you consider talented?
Last edited by a moderator:
Awful Waffle
Footballguy
I think the big thing to remember is this offense won't be like most offenses where there is a clear #1 receiver, clear #2, clear slot. Guys are going to move all over. Receivers will be inside and out. Tight ends will be on the line, in the backfield, in the slot. The running backs will catch a lot of passes. DeSean is the only receiver I'd want in fantasy this year. Cooper may technically be the starter, but that doesn't mean the same thing it means in Dallas, New York, etc.ShaHBucks said:
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The only Eagles I'd even consider drafting this year are McCoy and Jackson. Maybe someone else emerges later that you can get off the wire.
sporthenry
Footballguy
I think the secondary will be better b/c the safeties will actually get to play safety. CB's won't be on islands and the safeties won't be expected to be LB's stopping the run. Not that it will be great but it won't be as bad as last year, at least big play wise. It is more running or just the front 7 that worries me in the pass game.eaglesfan7 said:
The thing that will hopefully make this defense better is that hopefully the Eagles won't be the worst team in turnovers. Offensively, they shouldn't put the defense in as many precarious positions. Defensively, I don't see many play makers to force TO's but simple regression to league average would give them 7-10 more turnovers forced.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Well the point is, quick decisions help mask the strong arm. He isn't going to be Flacco back there but in Chip's offense, he could be good. Chip obviously saw something he liked when he saw him in person. I have no idea how much is related to recovery from his shoulder injury and if he'll ever get his arm strength back or increase it.ShaHBucks said:
But I don't understand how one can be this upset with a 4th round pick. The only reason I can think is that people dislike Barkley for other reasons that cloud their judgment. I don't remember people caring about Mike Kafka in the 4th round, yet drafting a guy who fell out of the top 5-10 the previous year gets people upset? Apart from Boykin last year, our recent 4th round picks have consisted of Matthews, Kafka, Trevard Lindley, Keenan Clayton, Henery, Demps or Jake Ikegwuonu. So instead of drafting a guy who won't be on the team in 2-3 years or drafting a kicker, we are upset that we drafted a QB who has potential?
Of course it is potential b/c if he was a surefire star, he wouldn't have fallen to the 4th round (which applies to all 4th round QB's). Previous 4th round QBs include Kirk Cousins, Stephen McGee, Kafka, Isaiah Stanback, Brad Smith, Kyle Orton, Stefan Lefors, etc. So even if Barkley is just a back up QB his whole career, he still did better than a majority of other 4th round QB's.
sporthenry
Footballguy
With Maclin down, I probably won't be drafting an Eagle in the first 1/2 to 3/4 of my draft. But the Eagles, much like any team in flux, have some upside guys. Add in a potential offense mastermind with an up pace offense, and I'm buying some late round fliers.
I'd buy Brown late. I don't think Polk will live up to his hype and Brown in a similar role to Pierce or Tate makes sense. Seems to be a solid back up (for a coach who ran the ball 60%+ in college) so as a back up or bye week filler, he'll be at least competent and if McCoy goes down (like Rice or Foster), their back ups will be top 10ish RBs.
With WR, the only WR who will probably be drafted is Desean. So taking a late round flier on Cooper or even Johnson in hopes of them clicking with the QB aren't crazy. Cooper could be a good chain mover and RZ target and Johnson could be a Desean lite in single coverage.
Likewise, with TE, none are projected to be drafted by ESPN's ADP. I expect Chip will spread the ball around a bit so consistency might be an issue but I could see one of them taking the starting gig and becoming a borderline TE1.
And I think the real shark move is QB especially if Vick wins. From a fan perspective, I'd probably prefer Foles to see if he has what it takes for the future. But fantasy wise, Vick has some potential in this offense. If you can get him as QB20+ and he has potential as a QB1, it'd be tough to pass up. (Although I just checked ESPN ADP and they had him at 16 which is a bit high for a potential guy out of a job).
So I guess you are right in saying you don't have to draft them but for once, watching the Eagles will have some benefit fantasy wise b/c they have a lot of WW late round fliers who could become starters.
GoBirds
Footballguy
I completely agree on Barkley....I mean he will never be Jake Ikegwuona but he could be decent.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Anyone worth their grain of salt on scouting QBs can see all of the 3 step drops, safe slants, bubble screens before the WRs even look for the ball and realize they are looking a really limited QB in Barkley. You can tell he is polished, smart but not overly gifted or special. When games got tough and compitition rised his game fell off. I'm not saying he doesn't belong on a NFL roster, but if you have expectation of him being a game changer you're going to be highly disappointed. His upside is a fringe starter with bust potential like Matt Flynn or Ryan Fitzpatrick maybe. That's a waste of time. You can get Matt Barkley level of talent later in any draft. There's a reason he took a Colt McCoy like draft plummet, and it wasn't because he presents value. You find Matt Hasselbeck's later in the draft. My other issue, aside from talent, is you bypassed players that could start for this team as soon as now. Why congest a position with a high pick that doesn't even fill a need? The line still needs depth, and all levels of the defense still needs depth/play makers. I thought the same ablut Ertz even though I give them credit for his talent. When you have other pressing needs Celek, Clay Harbor and the newly signed James Casey will do. And I don't buy that Chip Kelly's magical offense will unleash him. If you think he has value because he gets media attention then I don't know what to say besides enjoy watching him display the flaws that caused him to fall in the draft.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Yep, starters just grow on trees in the 4th round. Odds are their 4th rounder wouldn't be on the roster in 3 years so your assertion that they could have had a starter is laughable. Their best 4th round pick in recent years was Boykin, who was seen as a great pick at the time, didn't even start last year.If they drafted Nassib or Wilson, nobody would care.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
How about this. I bet you that Earl Wolff starts and make a impact on this team well before Barkley since finding starter quality players at positions of need is so funny and impossible after the 4th round.
If they drafted Nassib or Wilson, nobody would care.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Nice!
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Both QB's play good again as well as the OL and running game.
Gonna be a hard decision for chip.
Gonna be a hard decision for chip.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Still can't see the upside in going with Vick. 
JaxBill
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Is Polk seriously Shady's cuff over Brown? Looks that way.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
Hey guys, remember when Andy Reid made personnel decisions/play-calling decisions?
To the potential just plugging Chip Kelly in to run things gives this team and seeing what they are doing so far.
If it doesn't yield wins immediately or takes time, it can't be as bad as the last few years. And will be a heck of a lot more exciting.
To the potential just plugging Chip Kelly in to run things gives this team and seeing what they are doing so far.If it doesn't yield wins immediately or takes time, it can't be as bad as the last few years. And will be a heck of a lot more exciting.
Sludge
Footballguy
Faster and has a stronger arm. If he can handle the mental part then he's light years ahead of Foles.Still can't see the upside in going with Vick.
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
Absolutely re: the difference in Kelly's approach to the offense and the use of players. This offense looked efficient with both Vick and Foles. I'm confident both can score points consistently this season. Lots of first downs, lots of yards, and only broke down when they turned it over. Foles is young and inexperienced, made a poor mistake in the red zone but overall looked in complete control and did LOTS right. Vick looked fabulous. Quick, decisive and accurate. Nothing like last year where he held the ball too long and took hits which led to fumbles and ints. This new offense may be just what the doc ordered.
A bit befuddled that Polk gets the looks over Brown in the 1st half. To his credit, he ran effectively and showed good hands, vision. But he fumbled...does that open up the door for Brown to re-emerge as the backup? Does Brown need to take back the job here, or was Chip just giving Polk a look with the 1st string to see if he rebounded from last weeks rather dull outing? Not clear on the pecking order behind Shady.
Much better overall job by the defense. Still flawed, but much better than last week. Carolina helped us lots though, IMO.
A bit befuddled that Polk gets the looks over Brown in the 1st half. To his credit, he ran effectively and showed good hands, vision. But he fumbled...does that open up the door for Brown to re-emerge as the backup? Does Brown need to take back the job here, or was Chip just giving Polk a look with the 1st string to see if he rebounded from last weeks rather dull outing? Not clear on the pecking order behind Shady.
Much better overall job by the defense. Still flawed, but much better than last week. Carolina helped us lots though, IMO.
Saint
Footballguy
I don't believe Brown dressed for the game.
Edited to add twitter link from Preseason thread:
Jeff McLane @Jeff_McLane1h
Bryce Brown is not dressed in uniform and will not play tonight.
Edited to add twitter link from Preseason thread:
Jeff McLane @Jeff_McLane1h
Bryce Brown is not dressed in uniform and will not play tonight.
Last edited by a moderator:
zadok
Footballguy
Brown didn't dress tonight. The only thing Polk may be better at is pass pro. Brown is the handcuff.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
And will he be their QB for the next few seasons? I doubt it.Faster and has a stronger arm. If he can handle the mental part then he's light years ahead of Foles.Still can't see the upside in going with Vick.
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Phillymag.com mentioned a quad injury.
* Polk had four carries for 23 yards in the first half, but he lost a fumble. Bryce Brown (quad) did not play.
Sludge
Footballguy
If he doesn't get hurt then why not? I know thats a big "IF" but he gives them the best chance to win so you have to go with him.And will he be their QB for the next few seasons? I doubt it.Faster and has a stronger arm. If he can handle the mental part then he's light years ahead of Foles.Still can't see the upside in going with Vick.
ETA - This is all preseason talk so who knows what this will look liek when the games count. Its just nice to have a coach that can maximize strengths instead of making people fit into a system.
Last edited by a moderator:
Awful Waffle
Footballguy
3 drives went inside the Carolina 30, ended with 0 points. Can't have that.
If Foles wants to win this job, he needs a monster game next week and Vick needs to have a terrible one.
If Foles wants to win this job, he needs a monster game next week and Vick needs to have a terrible one.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Why waste the time? It's brutal knowing he'd never play consistent enough for a playoff run. But looking at Car backup QBs I don't mind Vick on the team at all.
Insein
Footballguy
Because right now he is playing better than Foles. Foles has looked decent but Vick has looked good. Neither of them will likely be the future at QB so you have to go with Vick otherwise you risk alienating a young locker room that you've been preaching "best guy wins" to all summer. Vick wins. He will get hurt though and Foles will come in then. The only question is will Barkley see playing time at some point during this season.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Because the HC said its a competition and you have to play the better guy even if there isn't technically upside.
No matter what we have to keep all 3 QB's this year.
Sludge
Footballguy
If he runs the offense correctly then he'll be getting rid of the ball a hell of lot quicker then he ever did under Reid which reduces the chances of him getting hurt. If/when he gets hurt we'll know that Foles can come in and Chip changes the offense a bit to suit his skill set.
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein
Footballguy
Big if right there because it will be undoing a lot of the tendencies he has built up over playing the position for 18+ years.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
He won't run any offense correctly for any extended amount of time.
He still can't slide
He will get hurt.
I'm fine with starting him but let's not get crazy, this is Michael Vick.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
On a side note---isn't it fun seeing Foles run an offense that he's not supposed to be able to? I mean there's no way he can run the read option, right?
Similar threads
- Sticky
