Awful Waffle
Footballguy
Vick played like the same old Vick we know and hate. Don't know what else to say.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
*** 2013 Official Philadelphia Eagles - NFC EAST CHAMPS*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Insein
- Start date
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I'm not overly impressed with Chip's offense. It looks no better than Andy's(or anyones). I watched a few Oregon games recently on YouTube and came away with the same vibe that talent > schemes as usual. Oregon had some really good players. I am impressed with his philosophies and teaching methods. Hopefully that leads to a Patriots level of dicipline one day.
I expected Vick to comeback down to earth, but not vs the Jags. Vick really took the cake on boneheaded plays tonight. This and the fade away int were typical http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Michael-Vick-throwaway.png I fear teams will speed up Vick's decisions, confuse him and it's back to what we are used to. He did a great job at not taking hits when he scrambled tonight. He missed Cooper a few times. One of those plays would have been another TD. One of my buddies was wondering why hasn't Vick ran the hurry up yet where Foles is almost doing it exclusively. He's a Vick guy and admits that Foles may have a better command of the offense. I always gave Foles the nod on that aspect in Andy's offense as well. Foles ran a no huddle offense in college. I'm guessing Fols is more comfortable doing it since he's been train for it and Chip is playing to his strengths like he said he would. But that's really just a guess.
Foles was brilliant. He didn't play down to the competition. He is really everything Chip Kelly said he was looking for in a QB(Rajon Rondo). He goes threw progressions. He gets the ball out quick. When he delivers the ball his recievers are always in position to make a play after the catch. His only incompletion should have been a reception. He was leading his receiver, like he always does, but Johnson dove because he was out of position after running the rout wrong. The ball just moves up the field and it has all preseason. Foles has lead 7 drives. 5 of those drives went to the redzone so far with 4 rushing TDs. He is really like a pass first pg in the NBA. By that I mean his best skill is making the players around him better. We have players that truely excel after the catch and Foles is the match. Too bad he lost the competition for trying to making he right decision. It's safe to say we have the best backup QB in the league fwiw.
I expected Vick to comeback down to earth, but not vs the Jags. Vick really took the cake on boneheaded plays tonight. This and the fade away int were typical http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Michael-Vick-throwaway.png I fear teams will speed up Vick's decisions, confuse him and it's back to what we are used to. He did a great job at not taking hits when he scrambled tonight. He missed Cooper a few times. One of those plays would have been another TD. One of my buddies was wondering why hasn't Vick ran the hurry up yet where Foles is almost doing it exclusively. He's a Vick guy and admits that Foles may have a better command of the offense. I always gave Foles the nod on that aspect in Andy's offense as well. Foles ran a no huddle offense in college. I'm guessing Fols is more comfortable doing it since he's been train for it and Chip is playing to his strengths like he said he would. But that's really just a guess.
Foles was brilliant. He didn't play down to the competition. He is really everything Chip Kelly said he was looking for in a QB(Rajon Rondo). He goes threw progressions. He gets the ball out quick. When he delivers the ball his recievers are always in position to make a play after the catch. His only incompletion should have been a reception. He was leading his receiver, like he always does, but Johnson dove because he was out of position after running the rout wrong. The ball just moves up the field and it has all preseason. Foles has lead 7 drives. 5 of those drives went to the redzone so far with 4 rushing TDs. He is really like a pass first pg in the NBA. By that I mean his best skill is making the players around him better. We have players that truely excel after the catch and Foles is the match. Too bad he lost the competition for trying to making he right decision. It's safe to say we have the best backup QB in the league fwiw.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Any insights frm last night on how the TE situation is evolving? Looking at the box score, it looks like Celek was the most involved. True?
Last edited by a moderator:
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Seemed like the case to me. to be fair, I don't watch these pre-season games like a hawk, but Casey is virtually never called and Ertz only occasionally. Not sure what to make of that. Whether it means that Celek has pulled it together and taken the lead, or if he's being given every opportunity before they actually cut him.
I agree with the above comments about the difference between the Foles and Vick offenses. The 99-yard drive was impressive, even if against 5th-stringers. But when Vick is in the game, there are always enormous holes in the secondary and they pick up huge chunks. On the other hand, with Vick it's like every play is either 30 yards or 2 or less. With Foles, it's like every play is 5 yards.
Brown is such a ridiculous physical talent. Just hold on to the ###### ball, man.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
Is Celek really in danger of being cut? Esp. without Maclin, I would think you'd want to keep around someone Vick has familiarity and comfort with.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@ProFootballTalk: The Eagles have released S Kenny Phillips per league source.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@caplannfl: Adding to the list of Eagles cuts: LB Jamar Chaney, source confirmed.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@RoobCSN: Marlin Jackson. Jarrad Page. OJ Atogwe. Quintin Demps. Macho Harris. Sean Jones. Jaiquawn Jarrett. David Sims. The Curse of Dawk is Real!
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
There has been some speculation about it, given his difficulties holding on to the ball in camp and in games. I don't know how real it is though.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Interesting. During the broadcast, a graphic claimed that Chaney and Mathews were both safe. I was surprised by both.
Ash
Footballguy
Matthews helped himself a lot last night, I don't think even Chaney's mother thought he was safe.
Ash
Footballguy
I don't think he's in danger of being cut, but he clearly doesn't look like the same guy as 2-3 yrs ago. He's got consistent drops now, and he looks tentative or maybe just slower, running with the ball. I wouldn't be surprised if his physical style of play is catching up with him. Someone could earn snaps as the inline TE from him but I don't see who. Casey just isn't big enough and Ertz doesn't block well enough (yet).
Ash
Footballguy
Roster Predictions
25 each for O, D (just worked out that way) and 3 specialists
QB (3): Vick, Foles, Barkley
RB (4): McCoy, Brown, Polk, Tucker
WR (5): Jackson, Cooper, Avant, Johnson, Salas
TE (4): Celek, Ertz, Casey, Harbor
OL (9): Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Herremans, Johnson, Babre, Kelly, Reynolds, Watkins
DL (7): Cox, Sopoaga, Thornton, Logan, Curry, Geathers, Square
ILB (4): Ryans, Kendricks, Acho, Matthews
OLB (5): Barwin, Cole, Graham, McCoy, Long
CB (5): Williams, Fletcher, Boykin, Hughes, Poyer
S: (4) Chung, Allen, Wolff, Coleman
ST (3): Dorenbos, Henery, Jones
No surprises with the QBs, on the RBs I'm saying 4 because I think they'd like to have that many so they could still dress 3 if somebody is injured. Tucker wouldn't dress if the top 3 were available. I think the top 5 WRs have separated themselves, although I could see Shepherd making it if they keep 6. Salas potentially wouldn't be active if Harbor is treated as a TE / 5th WR. 4 TEs again because they're used a lot need to cover against injuries. The 5 OL starters are obvious, Babre has earned a spot, I think they hang on to Kelly because he's a good fit and a potential future RT starter after Lane moves over to replace Peters in a couple of years. Reynolds is a better player than Vandevelde as backup C, but doesn't fit the scheme as well. That one could go either way. Watkins makes it by the skin of his teeth.
I have them keeping 7 DL, because it's a group with a lot of young talent and gives them a year to evaluate guys like Geathers, Square, Curry as well as numbers to rotate. ILB starters are obvious, Acho has played well and I'm keeping Matthews over Knott, just because I think he's a safer option if he has to play and Knott has continued the bad habit of running around blocks from his college career. He is instinctive and can make plays if he's kept clean, but that works better for a 4-3 WLB (his college position) than a 3-4 ILB. I have them keeping 5 OLB, because they have 2 guys who are suspect in coverage and playing out of position. If Barwin got injured, this group is an OC's dream. I have Long as the 5th guy, but expect this to be someone with some NFL experience at the position they pick up elsewhere post cutdowns.
The secondary is a mess. Hughes I think has played OK, Poyer makes it by default and would be another inactive, I probably would have kept Whitley instead but he's waived/injured. I see a lot of people projecting they keep 5 safeties, but I can't bring myself to keep 5 members of the worst position group on the team. Allen makes it because nobody's taken the job from him yet, Wolff might challenge him for playing time this year. although seems more suited right now to the Chung type role. I pick Coleman over Anderson for two reasons, I think #3/4 S is the position he's suited to, solid, just not good enough to start, and he has fewer overall weaknesses than Colt Anderson, who is such a coverage liability he just can't be on the field on D. I also don't believe a team coming off a 4-12 season and struggling to find competent players in many areas can afford to keep a 4th guy who only plays ST. If we were a good team, with set starters and looking to make a deep playoff run, sure. But not this team.
Guys who made it but are on the fringe are Watkins, Long, Coleman, Poyer and Square. Guys who could slip onto the roster are Shepherd, Knott (both PS candidates), Anderson, Marsh (injury dependent). I'd also like to see Bamiro and Joe Kruger on the PS
Also, here's my nickel D:
DL: Graham, Cox, Curry, Cole
LB: Barwin, Kendricks
CB: Williams, Fletcher, Boykin
S: Chung, Allen
Was going to look at a 3-3 front as well, but don't think that gets the best collection of pass rushers on the field.
25 each for O, D (just worked out that way) and 3 specialists
QB (3): Vick, Foles, Barkley
RB (4): McCoy, Brown, Polk, Tucker
WR (5): Jackson, Cooper, Avant, Johnson, Salas
TE (4): Celek, Ertz, Casey, Harbor
OL (9): Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Herremans, Johnson, Babre, Kelly, Reynolds, Watkins
DL (7): Cox, Sopoaga, Thornton, Logan, Curry, Geathers, Square
ILB (4): Ryans, Kendricks, Acho, Matthews
OLB (5): Barwin, Cole, Graham, McCoy, Long
CB (5): Williams, Fletcher, Boykin, Hughes, Poyer
S: (4) Chung, Allen, Wolff, Coleman
ST (3): Dorenbos, Henery, Jones
No surprises with the QBs, on the RBs I'm saying 4 because I think they'd like to have that many so they could still dress 3 if somebody is injured. Tucker wouldn't dress if the top 3 were available. I think the top 5 WRs have separated themselves, although I could see Shepherd making it if they keep 6. Salas potentially wouldn't be active if Harbor is treated as a TE / 5th WR. 4 TEs again because they're used a lot need to cover against injuries. The 5 OL starters are obvious, Babre has earned a spot, I think they hang on to Kelly because he's a good fit and a potential future RT starter after Lane moves over to replace Peters in a couple of years. Reynolds is a better player than Vandevelde as backup C, but doesn't fit the scheme as well. That one could go either way. Watkins makes it by the skin of his teeth.
I have them keeping 7 DL, because it's a group with a lot of young talent and gives them a year to evaluate guys like Geathers, Square, Curry as well as numbers to rotate. ILB starters are obvious, Acho has played well and I'm keeping Matthews over Knott, just because I think he's a safer option if he has to play and Knott has continued the bad habit of running around blocks from his college career. He is instinctive and can make plays if he's kept clean, but that works better for a 4-3 WLB (his college position) than a 3-4 ILB. I have them keeping 5 OLB, because they have 2 guys who are suspect in coverage and playing out of position. If Barwin got injured, this group is an OC's dream. I have Long as the 5th guy, but expect this to be someone with some NFL experience at the position they pick up elsewhere post cutdowns.
The secondary is a mess. Hughes I think has played OK, Poyer makes it by default and would be another inactive, I probably would have kept Whitley instead but he's waived/injured. I see a lot of people projecting they keep 5 safeties, but I can't bring myself to keep 5 members of the worst position group on the team. Allen makes it because nobody's taken the job from him yet, Wolff might challenge him for playing time this year. although seems more suited right now to the Chung type role. I pick Coleman over Anderson for two reasons, I think #3/4 S is the position he's suited to, solid, just not good enough to start, and he has fewer overall weaknesses than Colt Anderson, who is such a coverage liability he just can't be on the field on D. I also don't believe a team coming off a 4-12 season and struggling to find competent players in many areas can afford to keep a 4th guy who only plays ST. If we were a good team, with set starters and looking to make a deep playoff run, sure. But not this team.
Guys who made it but are on the fringe are Watkins, Long, Coleman, Poyer and Square. Guys who could slip onto the roster are Shepherd, Knott (both PS candidates), Anderson, Marsh (injury dependent). I'd also like to see Bamiro and Joe Kruger on the PS
Also, here's my nickel D:
DL: Graham, Cox, Curry, Cole
LB: Barwin, Kendricks
CB: Williams, Fletcher, Boykin
S: Chung, Allen
Was going to look at a 3-3 front as well, but don't think that gets the best collection of pass rushers on the field.
koreansteve
Footballguy
Eagles fans. Quick question. What are your opinions on Chris Polk?
Seems that Bryce Brown has reasserted himself again as the #2 with an impressive showing in week 3 of the preseason. Polk had looked pretty good though with good burst.
Is Polk worth anything in 2013? If McCoy or Brown went down would he have any value?
Seems that Bryce Brown has reasserted himself again as the #2 with an impressive showing in week 3 of the preseason. Polk had looked pretty good though with good burst.
Is Polk worth anything in 2013? If McCoy or Brown went down would he have any value?
Insein
Footballguy
Multiple failed drug tests and still got a shot to make a team. Then didn't perform in camp. I think we can survive without him.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip fairly confident his starting DL vs Redskins will be Thornton-Sopaga-Cox.
@Tim_McManus: Sounds like Chung has solidified a starter spot. Won't play Thursday, says Kelly, but others likely will.
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip very impressed with Bryce as runner and said fundamentals will be worked on. No problems with how he holds ball.
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip said the d-back did a good job of smacking the ball out on that fumble.
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip says safety is an issue because they'll probably have to cut another
@RoobCSN: Kelly said TE, S, DL and OL will be toughest positions to cut.
@EliotShorrParks: Kelly said that the plays where Vick seemed to hold onto the ball too long vs. Jacksonville were the product of great coverage #Eagles
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip says DeSean is still a punt returner but no need to give him reps there in preseason.
@Jeff_McLane: Chip Kelly on DeSean Jackson returning punts this season: "They'll be a point in time when DeSean is back there."
@JordanRaanan: Earl Wolff, Nate Allen and that safety position -- "work in progress," according to Chip Kelly. #Eagles
@Tim_McManus: Sounds like Chung has solidified a starter spot. Won't play Thursday, says Kelly, but others likely will.
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip very impressed with Bryce as runner and said fundamentals will be worked on. No problems with how he holds ball.
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip said the d-back did a good job of smacking the ball out on that fumble.
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip says safety is an issue because they'll probably have to cut another
@RoobCSN: Kelly said TE, S, DL and OL will be toughest positions to cut.
@EliotShorrParks: Kelly said that the plays where Vick seemed to hold onto the ball too long vs. Jacksonville were the product of great coverage #Eagles
@GeoffMosherCSN: Chip says DeSean is still a punt returner but no need to give him reps there in preseason.
@Jeff_McLane: Chip Kelly on DeSean Jackson returning punts this season: "They'll be a point in time when DeSean is back there."
@JordanRaanan: Earl Wolff, Nate Allen and that safety position -- "work in progress," according to Chip Kelly. #Eagles
Has Vinny Curry played starting DE with the first team yet? I don't understand why he's not in the conversation.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I dont know if he's played with the 1's or not but Thornton hasnt done anything to cost himself the job from what I could see.
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
I don't know how tuned in these guys are, but here's a new article on it.
"Brent Celek has played the most snaps with the first team through three preseason games. There was some hubbub about the veteran’s roster spot being at risk, but that isn’t the case. Celek is the best blocker of the group and has shown that he can still get tough yards after the catch"
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Who-Makes-the-Roster-Tight-ends.html#J5Yr28oU70zK3iiz.99
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Good article. - This is interesting, I had gotten the impression that Celek was going to be more of a blocker this year, but it looks like he has a chance to do something. I'm sure he's not being drafted most places too.Mystery Achiever said:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
But due to his running ability, he does have pretty good upside with how late he's been going, although I did see an uptick in his ADP since he was picked as the starter. He's been going around QB10-15 in a few leagues I'm in. I thought he'd be closer to QB20. I think Manual makes a good upside QB for the same reasons.
maxwelledison
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
As a backup, yes. For a backup, I'd take the upside over the reliability. If I was in desperate need of a starter at that point, I'd take Dalton. I'm assuming 12 team league where there's still a backup available on the waiver wire if Vick is hurt during my starter's bye week.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Nothing has changed....not even players from year to year. He is exactly how he was when he first started and has yet to change....or have anything amputated.
I'm thinking/hoping/praying you're attempting to be funny.
Ok, since you want to completely dismiss the fact that in 2010 he threw for over 3000 yards and 21 TDs PLUS ran for 678 yards and 9 TDs, how about the fact that in a little over three halves of football this preseason, he's 28-38 for 383 yards and two TDS, plus 73 yards rushing?
Yet, you say there's 0% chance he could finish top five quarterback . Are you trying to be funny? Is it just a hate thing? A dog fighting thing? Or maybe you're one of those crystal ball-guys who can predict injuries. But whatever the case may be, there's not one knowledgeable football fan out there who doesn't realize that a healthy Michael Vick, in the Chip Kelly offensive system, is very capable of putting up great fantasy numbers.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You'll never see the 2010 Vick again...one good stretch of his entire career is what you're hanging your hat on...think about that for a minute.
And I changed my stance on the 0% I mentioned above. I moved it up to 1%. It's 2013.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
it pains me to admit it but he's becoming my preferred QB2 gamble for fantasy. His upside is as high as it goes, so is his downside. As far as NFL win/loses go who knows what he'll do for the team. Taylor made offense for MV skills in FF.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i take some comfort in this too. i had hopes that Casey would have some value - Kelly might have snookered him into signing him with big talk - but Celek might a short term hold.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
As with most of the Down-on-Vick guys, I think its as simple as the bolded.
I don't see why you would say this at all? He has a healthy oline, great running game and a new system that might actually use his skill set.
One good stretch?!? That just reeks of haterade man. You want to say that 2006 was a long time ago, fine, I guess it was. But to paint the picture like his 2010 production was an outlier and the only good year he had is disingenuous.
2002: QB3, 2005: QB5, 2006: QB2, 2010: QB2...hell, even in the crap year that was 2011 when he had NO STARTERS at oline he was QB11.
"One good stretch"...come on!
Insein
Footballguy
I will never understand why people continue to pin their hopes to Vick. He has played a full 16 games 1 time in his 10 seasons. He has regressed from his stellar 2010 season for 2 years after teams remembered how to play him. He's 3 years older and still showing the same tendencies to ad lib when things aren't immediately there for him this preseason as he has always done.
To me that is a wasted pick in the 7th or 8th when you could have had another wr or rb with upside or a qb that has a higher chance of being healthy for your qb1s bye.
To me that is a wasted pick in the 7th or 8th when you could have had another wr or rb with upside or a qb that has a higher chance of being healthy for your qb1s bye.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You're a hater who probably owns some stupd dog...thats why you have an opinion that doesnt line up with theirs.
We're all entitled to our own opinions. I get that. If someone thinks Vick can be a top 5 Fantasy QB this year then IMO they're crazy. Like REALLY crazy. And believe me, I want him to be a top 5 Fantasy QB as much as you...
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein
Footballguy
JetMaxx
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
No one is pinning their hopes to him as their starting QB-you make it sound like I am advocating him in the first round. Sorry, but grabbing a guy that can put up 30-35 points per game for you in the 9th-10th round is not a wasted pick. Plus, I don't know how your league works, but when he is out due to injury, I don't have to start him, so I'm not losing all those points. I'd love to go back to back with a safe-not-sexy pick like Eli in the 9th and Vick in the 10th.
As far as his regression, we can agree to disagree. Its been argued ad nauseum. 2010 he was runner up for league MVP. 2011 he took a step back, along with everyone on that team not named shady. 2012 was a ####show for the entire organization. You don't want to believe he can ever have a good season, so be it. I disagree.
Basing an argument that he can't score well this year because he's only had one anomaly of a good season in his career is a BS argument. That was the point of previous post.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Don't give me that man. I own a dog. I've grown up with dogs. That's got nothing to do with this discussion.
I accept that people can have their own opinions and typically enjoy that. Many times I adjust my opinion based on someone else's well thought out explanation of their viewpoint.
However, stating something as rule of thumb fact:
and using that as a smarmy way to point out that someone must be an idiot for having a viewpoint that isn't in line with yours, is something I don't get behind.
I've said my peace. Don't draft him. I didn't, only because he went before I was able to grab him. As an Eagles fan I hope he does as well as I think he is capable of in this offense.
Similar threads
- Sticky
