***2014 Baseball Hall of Fame Thread (1 Viewer)

[RUSF18]

Clemens and Bonds went down from last year.

Piazza got 62% up from 57%.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I just can't get into the HoF. The thing is a crock and these results are as well.

 

[oso diablo]

is Moose = Mussina? if so, 20% in first year with a top-heavy 1st-year ballot isn't that bad. He'll sputter for one more year (RJ & Pedro next year), but then start a Blyleven type ascent.

 

[Eephus]

Pitchers and catchers report in 27 days.

 

[TobiasFunke]

is Moose = Mussina? if so, 20% in first year with a top-heavy 1st-year ballot isn't that bad. He'll sputter for one more year (RJ & Pedro next year), but then start a Blyleven type ascent.

Yeah, Mussina. I think he's an easy case. Hopefully you're right. I suspect you might be- gotta figure the focus on win totals and arbitrary numerical thresholds will be phased out a bit over time, and then his case will be even stronger.

 

[oso diablo]

is Moose = Mussina? if so, 20% in first year with a top-heavy 1st-year ballot isn't that bad. He'll sputter for one more year (RJ & Pedro next year), but then start a Blyleven type ascent.

Yeah, Mussina. I think he's an easy case. Hopefully you're right. I suspect you might be- gotta figure the focus on win totals and arbitrary numerical thresholds will be phased out a bit over time, and then his case will be even stronger.

his biggest "problem" is Schilling being on the crowded ballot with him.

 

[oso diablo]

i lived in Atlanta during the 90s. so many great memories of Cox/Maddux/Glavine. thrilled to see them inducted together.

 

[Eephus]

is Moose = Mussina? if so, 20% in first year with a top-heavy 1st-year ballot isn't that bad. He'll sputter for one more year (RJ & Pedro next year), but then start a Blyleven type ascent.

Yeah, Mussina. I think he's an easy case. Hopefully you're right. I suspect you might be- gotta figure the focus on win totals and arbitrary numerical thresholds will be phased out a bit over time, and then his case will be even stronger.

his biggest "problem" is Schilling being on the crowded ballot with him.

Being on a crowded anything with Curt Schilling is a problem.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Maddux only gimot like 97.5% of the ballots. So there were a lot more than just 1 person that didn't vote for him.

 

[Eephus]

Armando Benitez got one vote, probably as a thank you from an opposing hitter.

 

[TobiasFunke]

i lived in Atlanta during the 90s. so many great memories of Cox/Maddux/Glavine. thrilled to see them inducted together.

I haven't had a baseball team long enough to understand, but it was really great for Redskins fans when Art Monk and Darrell Green went in to the football Hall together. Kind of makes it a celebration of that whole era for the team.

 

[Sammy3469]

Maddux only gimot like 97.5% of the ballots. So there were a lot more than just 1 person that didn't vote for him.

There are at least 16 dopes in the world (there were 571 ballots...and at least 1 wasn't returned apparently).

 

[shadyridr]

Dan LeBetard was the one who sold his vote to Deadspin.

 

[Abraham]

Morons. Lots of them. On what planet is Craig biggio not a hall of famer?

 

[whoknew]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

I completely disagree with Gurnick. But I respect that vote a lot more than someone who will try to pick and choose who they think was on steroids and who wasn't and vote accordingly.

 

[RnR]

Morons. Lots of them. On what planet is Craig biggio not a hall of famer?

Relax, he'll make it. Probably with Bagwell in the same year.

 

[Don Quixote]

Morons. Lots of them. On what planet is Craig biggio not a hall of famer?

Relax, he'll make it. Probably with Bagwell in the same year.

A few voters (enough to push him over) have already said that they would have voted for Biggio if they could have voted for more than ten. I think Biggio gets in next year.

 

[Abraham]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

 

[oso diablo]

will be curious to see what happens with Edgar Martinez, now that Frank Thomas has been elected as the first-ever player with a majority of his games at DH.

 

[oso diablo]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

if a voter had Biggio as his #11 guy, and the ballot limits you to 10 slots...

Sandberg got in on 3rd ballot. I know it's disappointing, and i agree that writers are dumb, but Biggio will be elected a year from today.

 

[Eephus]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

I completely disagree with Gurnick. But I respect that vote a lot more than someone who will try to pick and choose who they think was on steroids and who wasn't and vote accordingly.

except that's exactly what he did

 

[whoknew]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

I completely disagree with Gurnick. But I respect that vote a lot more than someone who will try to pick and choose who they think was on steroids and who wasn't and vote accordingly.

except that's exactly what he did

How? I guess it depends on how you define the "steroid era." But he clearly put Morris in the 80s - outside the era.

 

[oso diablo]

Lee Smith plummets from 48% last year to only 30% this year.

 

[Eephus]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

I completely disagree with Gurnick. But I respect that vote a lot more than someone who will try to pick and choose who they think was on steroids and who wasn't and vote accordingly.

except that's exactly what he did

How? I guess it depends on how you define the "steroid era." But he clearly put Morris in the 80s - outside the era.

Gurnick's definition of the steroid era and his judgement on whether Morris was clean were just as arbitrary as the 570 other voters.

 

[shadyridr]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

I completely disagree with Gurnick. But I respect that vote a lot more than someone who will try to pick and choose who they think was on steroids and who wasn't and vote accordingly.

He IS picking and choosing by putting Morris & Ripken outside the steroid era and Maddux inside.

 

[oso diablo]

the 17 returnees on the ballot averaged a 24% drop in votes from 2013 to 2014.

Only 2 returning players saw a bump: Biggio and Piazza, both in the 2nd year on the ballot. This, along with their high %s, is a strong signal hat they will be elected within the next few years.

 

[Abraham]

Ken Gurnick voted for Morris, and nobody else. Won't be unanimous for Maddux.

People are dooshes. Seriously. If they are trying to make a statement, it works - their position nor their vote deserves any respect.

His stance was hes not voting for anyone during the steroid era. LOL ####in dumass. Pretty sure they were doing steroids in the 80s when Morris was pitching too

Makes no sense. Maddux would have to be in the top 10 guys you would least suspect of using roids. To be dominant in that era without juicing is even more impressive. And a vote for a guy like Maddux is in some ways a stick to the eye of a guy like Clemens.

I completely disagree with Gurnick. But I respect that vote a lot more than someone who will try to pick and choose who they think was on steroids and who wasn't and vote accordingly.

He IS picking and choosing by putting Morris & Ripken outside the steroid era and Maddux inside.

Agreed. Why do we not question ripkins long term good health? Steroids weren't invented the summer of 97.

 

[whoknew]

Gurnick's definition of the steroid era and his judgement on whether Morris was clean were just as arbitrary as the 570 other voters.

He IS picking and choosing by putting Morris & Ripken outside the steroid era and Maddux inside.

He set an arbitrary date of 92/93 as the beginning of the steroid era. I agree this is stupid.* Its still better than picking and choosing who he thinks used steroids during the "steroid era." He also, by the way, gave up his ballot going forward because he said he didn't know who did and who didn't use steroids and, therefore, couldn't be an effective voter.

I don't agree with the guy - but it seems he is trying to do what he thinks is the right thing and be consistent about it. He's a much better voter than those who don't vote for Bagwell or Piazza because they think he was on steroids based on no evidence.

*It obviously ignores steroids before the 90s. Not to mention all the other drugs like greenies.

 

[MattFancy]

Looks like LeBatard was the voter that sold his ballot to Deadspin: http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-of-fame-voter-who-turned-his-ballot-1496558341?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+deadspin%2Ffull+%28Deadspin%29

 

[oso diablo]

my 2015 ballot:

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Craig Biggio

Jeff Bagwell

Tim Raines

Mike Piazza

Alan Trammell

Edgar Martinez

______________

that's 10, but i also think these guys are HOF caliber:

Curt Schilling

Mike Mussina

John Smoltz

Gary Sheffield

Larry Walker

Mark McGwire

 

[oso diablo]

Looks like LeBatard was the voter that sold his ballot to Deadspin: http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-of-fame-voter-who-turned-his-ballot-1496558341?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+deadspin%2Ffull+%28Deadspin%29

good for Dan (i agreed with his rationale in the write-up), but he probably will have his vote stripped (as he predicts)

 

[MattFancy]

Looks like LeBatard was the voter that sold his ballot to Deadspin: http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-of-fame-voter-who-turned-his-ballot-1496558341?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+deadspin%2Ffull+%28Deadspin%29

good for Dan (i agreed with his rationale in the write-up), but he probably will have his vote stripped (as he predicts)

I agree. His rationale makes a ton of sense. I've never been a big fan of his, but he's earned my respect here.

 

[Eephus]

After all the pontificating and controversy, I have no argument whatsover with the three guys who were voted in. Congrats to them. The system certainly has its flaws but it's not entirely broken.

We only have another 20 years or so to retroactively debate the steroid era.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

my 2015 ballot:

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Craig Biggio

Jeff Bagwell

Tim Raines

Mike Piazza

Alan Trammell

Edgar Martinez

______________

that's 10, but i also think these guys are HOF caliber:

Curt Schilling

Mike Mussina

John Smoltz

Gary Sheffield

Larry Walker

Mark McGwire

Still not sure why they cut it off at 10. If someone wants to vote 16 why not?

 

[Thorn]

Hideo Nomo got 6 votes.

 

[Thorn]

my 2015 ballot:

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Craig Biggio

Jeff Bagwell

Tim Raines

Mike Piazza

Alan Trammell

Edgar Martinez

______________

that's 10, but i also think these guys are HOF caliber:

Curt Schilling

Mike Mussina

John Smoltz

Gary Sheffield

Larry Walker

Mark McGwire

Still not sure why they cut it off at 10. If someone wants to vote 16 why not?

There is talk of expanding the ballot starting next year. The backlog of PED-users is splintering the vote.

 

[Daywalker]

Seems like suspected PED user's have not only hurt their own chances but those of supposed "clean" players. Such a logjam that it's bringing down everyone's tally.

 

[Polar Dude]

I just can't get into the HoF. The thing is a crock and these results are as well.

That sucks. Did you do a lot of steroids?

 

[Polar Dude]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

if a voter had Biggio as his #11 guy, and the ballot limits you to 10 slots...

Sandberg got in on 3rd ballot. I know it's disappointing, and i agree that writers are dumb, but Biggio will be elected a year from today.

Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, and Pedro Martinez are eligible next year. Which of those guys does Biggio knock out of the list?

 

[shadyridr]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

if a voter had Biggio as his #11 guy, and the ballot limits you to 10 slots...

Sandberg got in on 3rd ballot. I know it's disappointing, and i agree that writers are dumb, but Biggio will be elected a year from today.

Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, and Pedro Martinez are eligible next year. Which of those guys does Biggio knock out of the list?

why cant they all get in?

 

[Don Quixote]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

if a voter had Biggio as his #11 guy, and the ballot limits you to 10 slots...

Sandberg got in on 3rd ballot. I know it's disappointing, and i agree that writers are dumb, but Biggio will be elected a year from today.

Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, and Pedro Martinez are eligible next year. Which of those guys does Biggio knock out of the list?

There has been some noise about dropping the 10 player voting limit. So, he may not need to knock anybody out.

I'd vote for Biggio before Smoltz though. I also think Mussina and Schilling have better cases than Smoltz.

 

[Polar Dude]

There has been some noise about dropping the 10 player voting limit. So, he may not need to knock anybody out.

I'd vote for Biggio before Smoltz though. I also think Mussina and Schilling have better cases than Smoltz.

I have heard that talk for about fifteen years, and then I have also heard guys like Joe Morgan talk about how important it is to protect the integrity of the Hall and how they need to take steps to ensure its exclusivity. If it happens, I am cool with it, but I guess I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Polar Dude]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

if a voter had Biggio as his #11 guy, and the ballot limits you to 10 slots...

Sandberg got in on 3rd ballot. I know it's disappointing, and i agree that writers are dumb, but Biggio will be elected a year from today.

Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, and Pedro Martinez are eligible next year. Which of those guys does Biggio knock out of the list?

why cant they all get in?

A year from today? I guess it's possible, but it looks unlikely.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I could read Greg Maddux stories all day...

This week, many will celebrate Maddux’s 355 wins, the second-highest total in the last 100 years. [snip]Maddux should be one of the most-copied pitchers ever, yet few would even know where to begin, because he seldom opened up about what he believed about pitching and why.

First, Maddux was convinced no hitter could tell the speed of a pitch with any meaningful accuracy. To demonstrate, he pointed at a road a quarter-mile away and said it was impossible to tell if a car was going 55, 65 or 75 mph unless there was another car nearby to offer a point of reference.

“You just can’t do it,” he said. Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different releases points or if a curveball starts with an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher’s hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision.

“Except,” Maddux said, “for that [expletive] Tony Gwynn.”

Because of this inherent ineradicable flaw in hitters, Maddux’s main goal was to “make all of my pitches look like a column of milk coming toward home plate.” Every pitch should look as close to every other as possible, all part of that “column of milk.” He honed the same release point, the same look, to all his pitches, so there was less way to know its speed — like fastball 92 mph, slider 84, changeup 76.

One day I sat a dozen feet behind Maddux’s catcher as three Braves pitchers, all in a row, did their throwing sessions side-by-side. Lefty Steve Avery made his catcher’s glove explode with noise from his 95-mph fastball. His curve looked like it broke a foot-and-a-half. He was terrifying. Yet I could barely tell the difference between Greg’s pitches. Was that a slider, a changeup, a two-seam or four-seam fastball? Maddux certainly looked better than most college pitchers, but not much. Nothing was scary.

Afterward, I asked him how it went, how he felt, everything except “Is your arm okay?” He picked up the tone. With a cocked grin, like a Mad Dog whose table scrap doesn’t taste quite right, he said, “That’s all I got.”

Then he explained that I couldn’t tell his pitches apart because his goal was late quick break, not big impressive break. The bigger the break, the sooner the ball must start to swerve and the more milliseconds the hitter has to react; the latter the break, the less reaction time. Deny the batter as much information — speed or type of last-instant deviation — until it is almost too late.

But not entirely too late: Maddux didn’t want swings and misses for strikeouts, but preferred weak defensive contact and easy outs. He sought pitches that looked hittable and identical — getting the hitter to commit to swing — but weren’t. Any pitch that didn’t conform to this, even if it looked good, was scrapped as inefficient.

“Greg was the only pitcher I’ve ever seen who never practiced from the wind-up between starts — only from the stretch,” Kasten said. “He said, ‘From the wind-up, I only try to keep the ball in the park. I’m good at that. But the only time I have to really pitch is from the stretch with men on base. So that’s all I practice.’”

Kasten wondered, “Why hasn’t anyone else thought of that?”

When available, Maddux studied tape of every home run hit in the big leagues the previous day. That’s all: homers. Where were the danger zones — location, location?

 

[shadyridr]

What, is he going to add some hits next year? Writers are dumb. A guy is or isn't, no need to draw it out.

And bagwell is never ever getting in.

if a voter had Biggio as his #11 guy, and the ballot limits you to 10 slots...

Sandberg got in on 3rd ballot. I know it's disappointing, and i agree that writers are dumb, but Biggio will be elected a year from today.

Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, and Pedro Martinez are eligible next year. Which of those guys does Biggio knock out of the list?

why cant they all get in?

A year from today? I guess it's possible, but it looks unlikely.

he was two votes away. Everyone who voted for him will continue to vote for him. Something tells me he finds two votes somewhere

 

[oso diablo]

Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, and Pedro Martinez are eligible next year. Which of those guys does Biggio knock out of the list?

3 guys were elected today, and Jack Morris drops off the ballot. But Biggio > Smoltz anyway.

 

[shadyridr]

I think smoltz is more of a lock than biggio. Biggio was never dominant. If he didnt get 3000 hits he wouldnt even be close to a HOFer (in the voters minds) but since he hit 3000 hell eventually get in

 

[Polar Dude]

Biggio had great versatility, but Smoltz was versatile with a novelty factor. The Press loves Smoltz and aren't exactly cozy with Biggio. I'd be surprised if Biggio trumps Smoltz in next year's voting.

 

[boubucarow]

Biggio had great versatility, but Smoltz was versatile with a novelty factor. The Press loves Smoltz and aren't exactly cozy with Biggio. I'd be surprised if Biggio trumps Smoltz in next year's voting.

It doesn't have to jump Smoltz to get in. He only needs two extra votes if we assume all who voted for him will do so next year. Then he only need 2 people that put him in over Smoltz or voted for 10 players including Morris and Biggio was #11 on their ballot. It is not a certainty but I think it is likely.