2014 Hall of Famers announced - '15 class now being discussed (1 Viewer)

[MoveToSkypager]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

 

[Nero]

Joey Browner was a 1 man wrecking crew on Madden. He should make the HOF on those credentials alone.

 

[Fariq]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Martin has more than 1 all-pro season. I have seen this mistake made on many forums. PFR has bad info and everyone cites it as fact? I don't know. That is beside the point, though.I agree with your comments.

 

[CalBear]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Curtis Martin was top-3 in rushing yardage four times (including at age 31 when he was #1), and top-10 seven times. That's not "hanging around collecting 700 yards per season". #50 on the all-time yardage list isn't good enough for the Hall. Sorry.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

 

[CalBear]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

If Gale Sayers retired today with less than 5000 rushing yards, he wouldn't deserve the Hall. (He may not, anyway).

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Martin has more than 1 all-pro season. I have seen this mistake made on many forums. PFR has bad info and everyone cites it as fact? I don't know. That is beside the point, though.I agree with your comments.

My bad. PFR is what I used I frankly don't remember AP teams being announced, so I must use a reference.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Curtis Martin was top-3 in rushing yardage four times (including at age 31 when he was #1), and top-10 seven times. That's not "hanging around collecting 700 yards per season". #50 on the all-time yardage list isn't good enough for the Hall. Sorry.

I never said your mom was a bad dentist either, dude. Your point wasn't good.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

If Gale Sayers retired today with less than 5000 rushing yards, he wouldn't deserve the Hall. (He may not, anyway).

Okay, but you are missing the point. If Terrell Davis had hung around for four more seasons and put up 3,200 yards in those four seasons (800 yards a season), putting him 20th all-time in rushing, would that make him more HOF-worthy? No. Cause then you'd have people saying, "Oh, he was only great for four seasons, and only got to almost 11K because he piled up a bunch of mediocre seasons." So, why should he be held out for not doing so? He had arguably the most dominant 4-season run a RB has ever had.

 

[Fariq]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Martin has more than 1 all-pro season. I have seen this mistake made on many forums. PFR has bad info and everyone cites it as fact? I don't know. That is beside the point, though.I agree with your comments.

My bad. PFR is what I used I frankly don't remember AP teams being announced, so I must use a reference.

No problem. I hate that the Associated Press gets all the attention. Other selection services carried as much or even greater weight in years gone by.

 

[CalBear]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

If Gale Sayers retired today with less than 5000 rushing yards, he wouldn't deserve the Hall. (He may not, anyway).

Okay, but you are missing the point. If Terrell Davis had hung around for four more seasons and put up 3,200 yards in those four seasons (800 yards a season), putting him 20th all-time in rushing, would that make him more HOF-worthy? No. Cause then you'd have people saying, "Oh, he was only great for four seasons, and only got to almost 11K because he piled up a bunch of mediocre seasons." So, why should he be held out for not doing so? He had arguably the most dominant 4-season run a RB has ever had.

I understand that point, but I don't think it's meaningful. Curtis Martin is in the Hall because at age 31, he had the best season of his career, not because he had a bunch of mediocre seasons to pad his yardage. Priest Holmes is well ahead of TD on the yardage and touchdown lists, had a similarly dominant run, and I don't think Holmes has a better shot at the Hall than TD does.

 

[Dizzy]

Of the "first ballot" guys, I think Derrick Brooks and Dungy are locks... Brooks for his play and Dungy because everyone loves him (not to take anything away from his coaching accomplishments). Walter Jones should be a lock as well IMO, but will probably have to wait. Strong arguments can be made for Marvin Harrison and Shaun Alexander as well, but I think their day may come down the road.

Best of the rest... I would not be surprised to see Bettis, Jacoby, and Strahan. All three are very deserving, but so are a lot of guys on that list.

I love Terrell Davis and Sterling Sharpe. I think both were two of the best ever at their positions. HOF to me though is about longevity as much as performance, so I just don't think either will ever get in based on their careers getting cut short.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

If Gale Sayers retired today with less than 5000 rushing yards, he wouldn't deserve the Hall. (He may not, anyway).

Okay, but you are missing the point. If Terrell Davis had hung around for four more seasons and put up 3,200 yards in those four seasons (800 yards a season), putting him 20th all-time in rushing, would that make him more HOF-worthy? No. Cause then you'd have people saying, "Oh, he was only great for four seasons, and only got to almost 11K because he piled up a bunch of mediocre seasons." So, why should he be held out for not doing so? He had arguably the most dominant 4-season run a RB has ever had.

I understand that point, but I don't think it's meaningful. Curtis Martin is in the Hall because at age 31, he had the best season of his career, not because he had a bunch of mediocre seasons to pad his yardage. Priest Holmes is well ahead of TD on the yardage and touchdown lists, had a similarly dominant run, and I don't think Holmes has a better shot at the Hall than TD does.

Because Priest Holmes does not have the postseason resume that T.D. does.

 

[Raider Nation]

Tim Brown

Air Coryell

Terrell Davis

Charles Haley

Michael Strahan

TD was a monster for a few years, but if he gets in and Walter Jones doesn't, the HoF should close its doors.

See SOS' post above....

The other Broncos fan? Disrespecting TD is not my intent. He had three great years.

Three years. It ain't happening.

 

[Tau837]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

Using Sayers as a comparison for Davis doesn't help Davis's case IMO. Sayers is very underrated in this forum and IMO his body of work is considerably more impressive than Davis's. Old post about Sayers:

Sayers only played 2 games in each of his 6th and 7th seasons due to injury and retired. But he was 1st team All Pro in each of his first 5 seasons. In those 5 seasons:

1. He was in the top 5 in rushing yards in each of those 5 seasons and led the league 2 times.

2. He was in the top 3 in rushing yards per game in each of those 5 seasons and led the league 3 times.

3. He was in the top 4 in rushing TDs in 4 of those 5 seasons.

4. He was in the top 4 in yards from scrimmage in 3 of those 5 seasons and led the league 1 time.

5. He was in the top 5 in all purpose yards in each of those 5 seasons and led the league 3 times.

His production per touch was amazing:

5.0 yards per carry

11.7 yards per reception

14.5 yards per punt return

30.6 yards per kickoff return

In addition to excelling as a RB, he is the best kick returner of all time, despite what a lot of people say about Devin Hester nowadays.

Aside from all that, consider the recognition Sayers has received for how he ranks in various all-time lists:

1. He was named the all-time NFL halfback in 1969 (NFL's 50th anniversary).

2. He was one of 7 RBs named to the 75th Anniversary Team in 1994.

3. I have seen references saying he was named to the All-time NFL Team in 2000, but I can't find that team online, so I don't know much about it.

4. He was #22 on the NFL Top 100 Greatest Players list released in 2010, behind only 4 RBs: Brown, Payton, Sanders, and Nagurski.

As far as I can tell, he has been chosen as being among the very best RBs of all time for every official all-time team selected since the middle of his career more than 40 years ago.

 

[Raider Nation]

Three people are arguing for TD.

Guess what they have in common.

 

[Tau837]

Tim Brown

Air Coryell

Terrell Davis

Charles Haley

Michael Strahan

TD was a monster for a few years, but if he gets in and Walter Jones doesn't, the HoF should close its doors.

See SOS' post above....

The other Broncos fan? Disrespecting TD is not my intent. He had three great years.

Three years. It ain't happening.

 

[Raider Nation]

You know what else hurts TD a bit, at least to me...

Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary. Plug 'n Play.

 

[CalBear]

Gale Sayers is 129th all-time in rushing, yet he is in the Hall of Fame.

Adam's post earlier nailed it.

If Gale Sayers retired today with less than 5000 rushing yards, he wouldn't deserve the Hall. (He may not, anyway).

Okay, but you are missing the point. If Terrell Davis had hung around for four more seasons and put up 3,200 yards in those four seasons (800 yards a season), putting him 20th all-time in rushing, would that make him more HOF-worthy? No. Cause then you'd have people saying, "Oh, he was only great for four seasons, and only got to almost 11K because he piled up a bunch of mediocre seasons." So, why should he be held out for not doing so? He had arguably the most dominant 4-season run a RB has ever had.

I understand that point, but I don't think it's meaningful. Curtis Martin is in the Hall because at age 31, he had the best season of his career, not because he had a bunch of mediocre seasons to pad his yardage. Priest Holmes is well ahead of TD on the yardage and touchdown lists, had a similarly dominant run, and I don't think Holmes has a better shot at the Hall than TD does.

Because Priest Holmes does not have the postseason resume that T.D. does.

Neither does Gale Sayers (zero postseason games).

 

[Adam Harstad]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Martin has more than 1 all-pro season. I have seen this mistake made on many forums. PFR has bad info and everyone cites it as fact? I don't know. That is beside the point, though.I agree with your comments.

Curtis Martin has one 1st team AP All Pro season, earned in 2004.

He also was 1st team all-conference in 1995, 2nd-team all-conference in 1996, 2nd team all-pro in 1999, and 2nd team all-pro in 2001 (all of which are listed on Pro Football Reference, whose information is fine). None of those are first team AP All Pros, though, which is the standard of comparison typically used when someone discusses "All Pro awards" for HoF candidacies. For instance, if we want to use the laxer standards, Terrell Davis had 4 All Pros instead of 3, because he was 2nd-team All Conference in 1995.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Curtis Martin was top-3 in rushing yardage four times (including at age 31 when he was #1), and top-10 seven times. That's not "hanging around collecting 700 yards per season". #50 on the all-time yardage list isn't good enough for the Hall. Sorry.

I have a serious question for you, and I want an honest answer. Let's say that after Terrell Davis got injured in 1999, he had managed to come back and play 9 more seasons as a much more limited version of himself. Let's say that in those 9 seasons, he averaged 230 carries for 850 yards, good for 3.7 yards per carry. Say he chipped in another 100 receiving yards through the air, and got maybe 6.5 TDs a year, on average.

Now, those per-season averages are pretty much identical to what Vick Ballard and Mikel Leshoure put up in 2012. Ballard had 211/814 rushing (3.9 per carry) with another 150 receiving and 3 TDs. LeShoure had 215/798 rushing (3.7 per carry) with 214 receiving and 9 TDs. So, basically, imagine Terrell Davis managed to rehab enough from his injury to give us a decade of Vick Ballard or Mikel LeShoure.

This hypothetical version of Terrell Davis would rank 4th in career rushing yards and 3rd in career rushing TDs. Would you say this hypothetical version of Terrell Davis was a Hall of Famer? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm honestly curious to hear what you think.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Martin has more than 1 all-pro season. I have seen this mistake made on many forums. PFR has bad info and everyone cites it as fact? I don't know. That is beside the point, though.I agree with your comments.

My bad. PFR is what I used I frankly don't remember AP teams being announced, so I must use a reference.

No problem. I hate that the Associated Press gets all the attention. Other selection services carried as much or even greater weight in years gone by.

The AP gets all the attention because it is the most consistent. You can't use defunct AP teams from the 50s, because that's not fair (a guy in the 50s would be an All Pro if he made the AP team *OR* some other random defunct team, while players in the '90s wouldn't have that opportunity). And, honestly, if you finish 2nd-team All Conference, that shouldn't count as an "All Pro" season. They have a word already for a 2nd-team All Conference season, it's called "pro bowler".

I'm sympathetic to counting both 1st and 2nd team AP All Pros (especially if you count them separately and note the difference), but as a standard of comparison, nothing can touch the credibility and consistency of the AP award.

 

[Adam Harstad]

You know what else hurts TD a bit, at least to me...

Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary. Plug 'n Play.

I feel the same way about Joe Montana. Ken Anderson, Steve Young, and Jeff Garcia. Plug 'n play.

 

[Adam Harstad]

To everyone who thinks Davis is not a Hall of Famer: would you enshrine Kurt Warner?

I'd like to see an argument that applies to Davis that doesn't also apply to Warner, and vice versa.

 

[Fariq]

Curtis Martin has 1 All Pro, 1 OPOY, 0 MVP. Marshall Faulk has 3 All Pros, 3 OPOY, 1 MVP. Emmitt Smith has 4, 0, 1. Thurman Thomas has 2, 1, 1. TD has 3, 2, 1. That compares pretty evenly to these recent HOF RBs. Would it satisfy the anti-TD guys just wanted him to hang around collecting 700 yards per season for the next 6 seasons so he could have a long career and be on the all-time compiler leaderboards? Wouldn't we rather have players in the HOF that dominated (in the true sense of the word) the game than players like Jerome Bettis, who just hung around forever? I would.

Martin has more than 1 all-pro season. I have seen this mistake made on many forums. PFR has bad info and everyone cites it as fact? I don't know. That is beside the point, though.I agree with your comments.

My bad. PFR is what I used I frankly don't remember AP teams being announced, so I must use a reference.

No problem. I hate that the Associated Press gets all the attention. Other selection services carried as much or even greater weight in years gone by.

The AP gets all the attention because it is the most consistent. You can't use defunct AP teams from the 50s, because that's not fair (a guy in the 50s would be an All Pro if he made the AP team *OR* some other random defunct team, while players in the '90s wouldn't have that opportunity). And, honestly, if you finish 2nd-team All Conference, that shouldn't count as an "All Pro" season. They have a word already for a 2nd-team All Conference season, it's called "pro bowler".

I'm sympathetic to counting both 1st and 2nd team AP All Pros (especially if you count them separately and note the difference), but as a standard of comparison, nothing can touch the credibility and consistency of the AP award.

Other awards carried more weight in past seasons. Period.

 

[Fariq]

Sayers was a true superstar who captioned the nation's attention in ways that Davis never did. Davis does have the postseason stats that Sayers does not, but that is not Sayers' fault. This is a team sport.

Sayers had five all-pro seasons. Davis had fewer. Sayers was a magnificent kick returner. Davis cannot match that.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

 

[CalBear]

I have a serious question for you, and I want an honest answer. Let's say that after Terrell Davis got injured in 1999, he had managed to come back and play 9 more seasons as a much more limited version of himself. Let's say that in those 9 seasons, he averaged 230 carries for 850 yards, good for 3.7 yards per carry. Say he chipped in another 100 receiving yards through the air, and got maybe 6.5 TDs a year, on average.

Now, those per-season averages are pretty much identical to what Vick Ballard and Mikel Leshoure put up in 2012. Ballard had 211/814 rushing (3.9 per carry) with another 150 receiving and 3 TDs. LeShoure had 215/798 rushing (3.7 per carry) with 214 receiving and 9 TDs. So, basically, imagine Terrell Davis managed to rehab enough from his injury to give us a decade of Vick Ballard or Mikel LeShoure.

This hypothetical version of Terrell Davis would rank 4th in career rushing yards and 3rd in career rushing TDs. Would you say this hypothetical version of Terrell Davis was a Hall of Famer? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm honestly curious to hear what you think.

I don't think the hypothetical is useful, because no one will hang around the NFL 9 years getting 230 carries at 3.7 yards a carry. The closest is Jerome Bettis, who had four seasons at the end of his career which sort of match the criteria. Eddie George had three. That's why there aren't a whole lot of mediocre running backs like that who have 10K yards. Neither of those guys has a strong Hall resume, but if Bettis didn't have his 2004 and 2005 (22 TDs, Super Bowl win) he'd have no chance at all.

So for Davis to get nine seasons of mediocre play, he'd have to be doing something amazing. If he got to play nine mediocre years because he had naked pictures of the owner's wife, I don't think it would improve his Hall credentials.

 

[CalBear]

To everyone who thinks Davis is not a Hall of Famer: would you enshrine Kurt Warner?

I'd like to see an argument that applies to Davis that doesn't also apply to Warner, and vice versa.

If Davis came back at age 38, finished #2 in the league in yardage, #3 in TDs, and took a franchise to its first-ever Super Bowl while scoring 11 TDs in the post-season, I'd put him in the Hall.

But since he doesn't have that, he's not the same player as Warner. Warner with just the St. Louis accomplishments would have been a borderline Hall of Famer only because he's a QB and because of the grocery bag story. WIth his whole career he's a shoo-in, unlike Davis.

 

[flysack]

As a Colts fan I think Dungy is one of the most overrated coaches in history!

In 12 of the 13 years before Dungy was named the HC of the Buccaneers they lost double digit games (10 or more). The one year that they didnt lose 10 or more they lost 9 games. Yet people are disappointed that he never won a Super Bowl there. I just dont understand the lack of respect he gets.

Didn't he basically invent the Cover-2 defense that so many NFL defenses still incorporate? Or was that Monte "I raised the biggest d-bag in the universe" Kiffin?

The cover-2 was used before Kiffin and Dungy entered the scene.

Forget it then. He doesn't belong in at all, IMO. We're talking about a good coach who turned a laughing stock into a perennial playoff loser. It took another guy to win that team a Superbowl, and it took Peyton Manning, one of the top 5 QBs of all time, to win Dungy his ring. The guy doesn't belong in the hall. I respect him, I think he was a good coach, but not a HOFer.

 

[flysack]

Here's the list of 25 semifinalists:

Morten Andersen

Steve Atwater

Jerome Bettis

Derrick Brooks

Tim Brown

Don Coryell

Roger Craig

Terrell Davis

Edward DeBartolo, Jr.

Tony Dungy

Kevin Greene

Charles Haley

Marvin Harrison

Joe Jacoby

Jimmy Johnson

Walter Jones

John Lynch

Karl Mecklenburg

Andre Reed

Will Shields

Michael Strahan

Paul Tagliabue

Aeneas Williams

Steve Wisniewski

George Young

Mark Bavaro is not getting the love he deserves as one of the last great two way TE. Injuries tempered his numbers a bit but he was a beast and one tough SOB.

The Hall hates tight ends. You could argue that the HoF standard at the position should be at a level that includes Bavaro, but based on the standards the Hall has already set, Bavaro is nowhere close.

Hell, the Hall has yet to send a TE through on the first ballot. Kellen Winslow, Sr. and Shannon Sharpe both had to wait until their third season to get in, and they combined for SEVEN first team AP All Pro awards. Mike Ditka pretty much invented the TE position as we know it, setting records that still stand to this day, and he had to wait over a decade for enshrinement. Dave Casper also waited for a decade. John Mackey waited for a decade and a half. These guys were stupidly overqualified for the Hall, way above Mark Bavaro's level, and the voters still made them wait for 10+ years.

Gonzo will be a first ballot HOF TE. Bank on it.

Also agree that Bavaro belongs in. His receiving numbers aren't comparable to this new age of TEs, but he dominated the field and was a largel part of a couple championship teams.

 

[flysack]

To everyone who thinks Davis is not a Hall of Famer: would you enshrine Kurt Warner?

I'd like to see an argument that applies to Davis that doesn't also apply to Warner, and vice versa.

If Davis came back at age 38, finished #2 in the league in yardage, #3 in TDs, and took a franchise to its first-ever Super Bowl while scoring 11 TDs in the post-season, I'd put him in the Hall.

But since he doesn't have that, he's not the same player as Warner. Warner with just the St. Louis accomplishments would have been a borderline Hall of Famer only because he's a QB and because of the grocery bag story. WIth his whole career he's a shoo-in, unlike Davis.

Exactly. Warner was on the bubble with his work with the Rams. I doubt he would have got in. His work in Arizona all but guaranteed enshrinement one day though.

 

[wildbill]

Three people are arguing for TD.

Guess what they have in common.

I'm no Broncos fan, and I agree with them.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

Prepare to be sad.

 

[Dizzy]

To everyone who thinks Davis is not a Hall of Famer: would you enshrine Kurt Warner?

I'd like to see an argument that applies to Davis that doesn't also apply to Warner, and vice versa.

TD... great player, but his career was over in a blink. He had three great seasons... and that's just not enough to get in the HOF.

Same exact thing that will keep Sterling Sharpe out. He was an awesome WR, but his career was cut short, and that's that.

Kurt Warner probably not the best example to use. He would have a shot at getting in on his Super Bowl numbers alone. 10-year career, greatest show on turf, went to the SP with two different teams riding his arm... I would vote for Kurt Warner as a HOFer.

 

[Dizzy]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

Prepare to be sad.

Bettis will get in. Isn't he top-10 of all-time rushers? There's probably 10 guys behind him on that list that are all in the Hall.

The HOF is as much of a lifetime achievement award as it is about being great, and great in big moments. The Bus will get into the Hall... bet on it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You know what else hurts TD a bit, at least to me...

Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary. Plug 'n Play.

Oh. How many times did those guys run for 2,000 yards? How many MVP awards did they win? How did they do in the postseason?

As for Davis having only three years, did you miss Adam's post about his postseason numbers are basically another full season? But if you want to leave them as is, his three great seasons were:

1,629 rushing yards and 16 total touchdowns

2,331 rushing yards and 23 total touchdowns

2,476 rushing yards and 26 total touchdowns

I'd be curious to know if any other RB in NFL history ran for 6,436 rushing yards over the span of three consecutive seasons, counting playoff games. And he did with a 4.9 YPC average. That is just astonishing.

Lastly, it is disingenuous to leave his rookie season out of the mix. Even if you don't want to call it great, it was pretty damn good: 1,484 total yards, 8 scores and a 4.7 YPC on a 8-8 Broncos team.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, I did the math on one dominant back: from 1993-1995 Emmitt Smith, counting playoff games, amassed, 5,439 rushing yards and had a YPC average of 4.6.

Even more amazing is that from 1996-1998, Barry Sanders, despite playing in only one playoff game in those three years, gained 5,162 rushing yards and averaged 5.1.

 

[Raider Nation]

The numbers in the seasons he played were great. Nobody is disputing that.

There just weren't enough of them. All of the numbers you guys throw at us won't change that.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

They're working on the BUSt right now.

 

[Bri]

You know what else hurts TD a bit, at least to me...

Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary. Plug 'n Play.

Oh. How many times did those guys run for 2,000 yards? How many MVP awards did they win? How did they do in the postseason?

As for Davis having only three years, did you miss Adam's post about his postseason numbers are basically another full season? But if you want to leave them as is, his three great seasons were:

1,629 rushing yards and 16 total touchdowns

2,331 rushing yards and 23 total touchdowns

2,476 rushing yards and 26 total touchdowns

I'd be curious to know if any other RB in NFL history ran for 6,436 rushing yards over the span of three consecutive seasons, counting playoff games. And he did with a 4.9 YPC average. That is just astonishing.

Lastly, it is disingenuous to leave his rookie season out of the mix. Even if you don't want to call it great, it was pretty damn good: 1,484 total yards, 8 scores and a 4.7 YPC on a 8-8 Broncos team.

Above the rookie part makes some sense and all, not replying to that. The last sentence is quite comparable to Anderson's rookie year though

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

Prepare to be sad.

Bettis will get in. Isn't he top-10 of all-time rushers? There's probably 10 guys behind him on that list that are all in the Hall.

The HOF is as much of a lifetime achievement award as it is about being great, and great in big moments. The Bus will get into the Hall... bet on it.

Bettis = Vinny Testaverde

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

Prepare to be sad.

Bettis will get in. Isn't he top-10 of all-time rushers? There's probably 10 guys behind him on that list that are all in the Hall.

The HOF is as much of a lifetime achievement award as it is about being great, and great in big moments. The Bus will get into the Hall... bet on it.

Bettis = Vinny Testaverde

X

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

Prepare to be sad.

I know it'll happen. The voters have been watering down the PFHOF for a while now. Being a Steeler gives Bettis a boost into the HOF where an equal player not on the Steelers won't. Same garbage with Lynn Swann. Undeserving players getting in the HOF isn't new.

 

[Yenrub]

As a Colts fan I think Dungy is one of the most overrated coaches in history!

In 12 of the 13 years before Dungy was named the HC of the Buccaneers they lost double digit games (10 or more). The one year that they didnt lose 10 or more they lost 9 games. Yet people are disappointed that he never won a Super Bowl there. I just dont understand the lack of respect he gets.

Didn't he basically invent the Cover-2 defense that so many NFL defenses still incorporate? Or was that Monte "I raised the biggest d-bag in the universe" Kiffin?

The cover-2 was used before Kiffin and Dungy entered the scene.

Forget it then. He doesn't belong in at all, IMO. We're talking about a good coach who turned a laughing stock into a perennial playoff loser. It took another guy to win that team a Superbowl, and it took Peyton Manning, one of the top 5 QBs of all time, to win Dungy his ring. The guy doesn't belong in the hall. I respect him, I think he was a good coach, but not a HOFer.

The guy was a highly questionable Bert Emanuel “drop” away from taking the Buccaneers to the Super Bowl with Shaun King at QB … SHAUN KING

What does it take to put a coach in the hall in your opinion?

Most/many of the Hall of Fame coaches can be linked to Hall of Fame QB's

 

[Ghost Rider]

Had that Emanuel play been called a catch, there is no guarantee that the Bucs would have scored. That still would have put the ball at only the Rams 20 (roughly..I think it was more like the 21 or 22).

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The 25 semifinalists, announced on 11/20/13

Morten Andersen

Steve Atwater

Jerome Bettis

Derrick Brooks

Tim Brown

Don Coryell

Roger Craig

Terrell Davis

Edward DeBartolo, Jr.

Tony Dungy

Kevin Greene

Charles Haley

Marvin Harrison

Joe Jacoby

Jimmy Johnson

Walter Jones

John Lynch

Karl Mecklenburg

Andre Reed

Will Shields

Michael Strahan

Paul Tagliabue

Aeneas Williams

Steve Wisniewski

George Young

Dungy and Brooks 1st Ballot or there's a major problem. Peter King has gained a bigger and bigger influence in the meetings, he loves Dungy, just can't see anyway these 2 do not make it in. I said when Dungy retired he would get in 1st ballot, hate to make race a part of it but these writers have a chance to elect the 1st black HC into the HoF, Dungy deserves it on merit alone but certainly with the way things have unfolded in the last few years in this country and electing the first black POTUS, you gotta be nuts to not think Dungy gets in.

Harrison, Lynch, and Strahan would be next for me. Dungy will get a lot of work HoF weekend as I'm sure Brooks would ask him to induct him into the Hall. I hope one day they make a movie about Dungy and what he accomplished.

 

[Yenrub]

Had that Emanuel play been called a catch, there is no guarantee that the Bucs would have scored. That still would have put the ball at only the Rams 20 (roughly..I think it was more like the 21 or 22).

You are correct sir

1999 was a long time ago

 

[The Jerk]

As a Colts fan I think Dungy is one of the most overrated coaches in history!

In 12 of the 13 years before Dungy was named the HC of the Buccaneers they lost double digit games (10 or more). The one year that they didnt lose 10 or more they lost 9 games. Yet people are disappointed that he never won a Super Bowl there. I just dont understand the lack of respect he gets.

Didn't he basically invent the Cover-2 defense that so many NFL defenses still incorporate? Or was that Monte "I raised the biggest d-bag in the universe" Kiffin?

The cover-2 was used before Kiffin and Dungy entered the scene.

At the core of the Tampa 2 defense is the Steel Curtain of the 1970s. Bud Carson was the chief architect although many other assistants and of course Chuck Noll had contributions as well. Dungy of course played two seasons with the Steelers, and then coached there starting in 1981 at age 25. Dungy became DC in 1984 and the Steelers ran a 3-4 at that time, but mostly due to inadequacies on the defensive line. Dungy himself credits Carson and Noll with creating a large portion of the Tampa 2 scheme.

 

[Dizzy]

I'll also be sad if Bettis gets in over TD. If Bettis gets in, we should let in Vinny Greenhead in and kick out Steve Young.

Prepare to be sad.

Bettis will get in. Isn't he top-10 of all-time rushers? There's probably 10 guys behind him on that list that are all in the Hall.

The HOF is as much of a lifetime achievement award as it is about being great, and great in big moments. The Bus will get into the Hall... bet on it.

Bettis = Vinny Testaverde

Except that he's been to many more Pro-Bowls, been a 1st team All-Pro (twice), has a Super Bowl ring, and he's going into the Hall of Fame.

Other than that, yeah... I can see a few similarities.

If we're going to cherry pick players that got (or will get) robbed of their HOF opportunities because of career ending injuries, my vote goes to William Andrews.