2014 NFL Draft thread (1 Viewer)

[ShaHBucks]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

Agree 100%

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Some scouts think he is the best since A.J. Green and Julio Jones, if not quite that good, and they went 1.4 and 1.6.

I think he has a chance to run a sub-4.4. In training recently, after a 40 his trainers said they didn't need to work on it anymore.

He does have a track background, and ran something like a 10.4-10.5 100 m. as a prep.

Watkins has consistently been graded as top 5 or close since the bowl games ended and the pre-draft process started. IMO, no chance he drops to DET at 1.10 (though that would be nasty with Calvin, so might be Mike Evans).

I think we been through this one with Tavon Austin. A 4.3 wouldn't even have me consider him a top-5 prospect. A ton of small recievers run sub-low 4.4 now. Simple measurable:

6.01.0″ tall, 214 pounds = DeAndre Hopkins (2013 #27 NFL Draft pick, Houston)

6.00.5″ tall, 208 pounds = Sammy Watkins (projected size at 2014 NFL Combine)

Best college season(per game):

6.3 rec., 108.1 rec. yards, 1.38 TDs = Hopkins

7.8 rec., 112.6 rec. yards, 0.92 TDs = Watkins

I don't even know if he's the best since Hopkins given he's projeted to come in smaller

I actually could see Martavis Bryant being the better one in 3 years.

 

[Faust]

NFL analysts: Blake Bortles could be mistake for Texans

 

[DropKick]

For those that like to play with mock drafts here you go.

They update data every Tuesday.

They value a few players a bit low but it's fun to play with since you can choose to draft as any team for any number of rounds from 1 to 7.

http://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/

Drafting as Miami... tempted to go radical and take a QB in the first.. but ended up targeting the defense and upgrading the running game.

19 CB DARQUEZE DENNARD - MICHIGAN STATE

50 DE SCOTT CRICHTON - OREGON STATE

81 DT DOMINIQUE EASLEY - FLORIDA

112 RB CARLOS HYDE - OHIO STATE

143 OT AUSTIN WENTWORTH - FRESNO STATE

174 G KADEEM EDWARDS - TENNESSEE STATE

211 S SEAN PARKER - WASHINGTON

 

[Bob Magaw]

Some scouts think he is the best since A.J. Green and Julio Jones, if not quite that good, and they went 1.4 and 1.6.

I think he has a chance to run a sub-4.4. In training recently, after a 40 his trainers said they didn't need to work on it anymore.

He does have a track background, and ran something like a 10.4-10.5 100 m. as a prep.

Watkins has consistently been graded as top 5 or close since the bowl games ended and the pre-draft process started. IMO, no chance he drops to DET at 1.10 (though that would be nasty with Calvin, so might be Mike Evans).

I think we been through this one with Tavon Austin. A 4.3 wouldn't even have me consider him a top-5 prospect. A ton of small recievers run sub-low 4.4 now.Simple measurable:

6.01.0″ tall, 214 pounds = DeAndre Hopkins (2013 #27 NFL Draft pick, Houston)

6.00.5″ tall, 208 pounds = Sammy Watkins (projected size at 2014 NFL Combine)

Best college season(per game):

6.3 rec., 108.1 rec. yards, 1.38 TDs = Hopkins

7.8 rec., 112.6 rec. yards, 0.92 TDs = Watkins

I don't even know if he's the best since Hopkins given he's projeted to come in smaller

I was just responding to the 4.2 comment. I wouldn't mean to imply liking him only for his speed, that would be a pretty superficial analyis. He is a complete WR that has many things to recommend him.

Watkins is about 5" and 30 lbs heavier than Austin, and could maybe beat him in a 100 m.

That is like having a WR 6'5" and 235... not unlike Calvin Johnson. Is there a difference between Calvin Johnson and Watkins? If you wouldn't gloss that over, why would you with Watkins and Austin?

In Hopkins best season, did he have Watkins drawing coverage? Did Watkins have a similar advantage with as good a player in his best season. I don't think he did?

If you can't see that Watkins is vastly more explosive than Hopkins, than I don't really have anything for you there. Sometimes scouts make mistakes, but they have done a good job recently with top 5-10 WRs Johnson, Green and Jones. I'm not prepared to bury Austin yet (four 50+ yard TDs in consecutive games against IND and CHI), but would you like him more if he was 6'1" 205 lbs?

* Austin was 1.8 (and reportedly others would have taken him around there, he wasn't lasting much longer) at 5'8" 178 lbs., approx. Where would he have gone if he had the same resume, body of work, film, moves, BUT was Watkins size? He might have gone top 5.

 

[Bob Magaw]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

* You seem to have a few contrarian takes. Still think Manziel probably won't get drafted?

 

[Gandalf]

Exactly Bob. Exactly.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

The person I see him compared to a lot is Torey Smith. And I personally wouldnt take him that early.

 

[matuski]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

The actual Percy Harvin and Roddy White were late 1st round.

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

Agree 100%

Bingo.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

I don't see why a team would take a 6'3 195lb QB who played against sub-level competition or a 5'11 party-time QB or a prototypical guy whose level of competition is sub-level who also has accuracy issues but I can see at least two of those guys being taken in the top-five picks.

Those sorts of arguments where top ranked players get nit-picked can work for most any of the top ranked players of this draft but it happens in every draft.

Sammy Watkins is one of the top ranked players of this draft and he very-likely will be a top-ten pick.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

The "majority of NFL teams" have Texas A&M's Jake Matthews as the third T in this class, according to ESPN's Mel Kiper.

Kiper notes Auburn's Greg Robinson is considered the top tackle with Michigan's Taylor Lewan at number two. We do not agree with this statement, and even though Robinson will likely be the first tackle off the board, we are holding firm that Matthews is a better prospect than Lewan.


Source: Dan Kadar on Twitter

 

[Faust]

2014 NFL Draft: Combine list includes 85 underclassmen

 

[Bob Magaw]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

The person I see him compared to a lot is Torey Smith. And I personally wouldnt take him that early.

We already did this (I think in F&Ls Dynasty thread, but maybe in Xue's 2014 Prospect thread).Some compared him to Smith based on measurables. Watkins is a more well rounded and superior prospect based on skill set.

Again, if you KNEW you could get Roddy White for a decade, would you say, I don't want him with a high pick, he is too small (6'0" 215 lbs.).

* White just doesn't have elite TD numbers, but I think he leads the NFL in receptions since 2007.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

The person I see him compared to a lot is Torey Smith. And I personally wouldnt take him that early.

We already did this (I think in F&Ls Dynasty thread, but maybe in Xue's 2014 Prospect thread).Some compared him to Smith based on measurables. Watkins is a more well rounded and superior prospect based on skill set.

Again, if you KNEW you could get Roddy White for a decade, would you say, I don't want him with a high pick, he is too small (6'0" 215 lbs.).

* White just doesn't have elite TD numbers, but I think he leads the NFL in receptions since 2007.

If I knew what I knew now about Rody White I would pick him in the top 5.....BUT....please give me other names in this "Rody White" draft. Is Calvin on the board too? AJ? Julio? Dez? DT? If so, I pick them over him mainly for the same reasons Shah stated above. I'm not saying White/ Watkins are bad prospects in this hypothetical either, but in order for me (IMO) to justify a top 5 pick on a WR he has to have an ELITE something. Size, body control, speed, RAC etc.

 

[BassNBrew]

Maybe I'm not doing something right but I got for the Panthers...

1. Matthew OT

2. Clowney DE

3. Watkins WR

4. Robinson OT

5. Evans WR

6. Dennard CB

7. Eborn TE

Seattle better look out.

 

[Faust]

2014 NFL Mock Draft 1.0

 

[Bob Magaw]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

The person I see him compared to a lot is Torey Smith. And I personally wouldnt take him that early.

We already did this (I think in F&Ls Dynasty thread, but maybe in Xue's 2014 Prospect thread).Some compared him to Smith based on measurables. Watkins is a more well rounded and superior prospect based on skill set.

Again, if you KNEW you could get Roddy White for a decade, would you say, I don't want him with a high pick, he is too small (6'0" 215 lbs.).

* White just doesn't have elite TD numbers, but I think he leads the NFL in receptions since 2007.

If I knew what I knew now about Rody White I would pick him in the top 5.....BUT....please give me other names in this "Rody White" draft. Is Calvin on the board too? AJ? Julio? Dez? DT? If so, I pick them over him mainly for the same reasons Shah stated above. I'm not saying White/ Watkins are bad prospects in this hypothetical either, but in order for me (IMO) to justify a top 5 pick on a WR he has to have an ELITE something. Size, body control, speed, RAC etc.

I don't see a Calvin, A.J. or Julio in the draft, no. I do think he may be a better prospect than Dez and DT, and the best since the first three. I do think Watkins compares more favorably to White than Evans or Benjamin do to the top 5-types you mentioned.

Jonathan Baldwin had elite size, too.

I think Watkins does have elite speed and hands. Some aren't impressed with his acceleration or RAC skills, but I am. Like I noted above, we had this exact conversation elsewhere recently, you should check it out if you are interested.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell said the team has a "good idea" who their top-5 prospects might be.

"There's a consensus here," Caldwell said of the five. "...but that's going to differ from team to team. It's hard to get a consensus among your own building, and the whole league." The GM added he would be open to trading the third overall pick. "I think it's a possibility, but it's so early in the process. There are going to be guys who are going to be weeded out. Some may have injury issues. Some may have other issues." The biggest question might be if the Jaguars are in a position in the first-round to draft "their guy" at quarterback, and if not who will they draft on the second day.


Source: The Florida Times-Union

 

[IHEARTFF]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

The person I see him compared to a lot is Torey Smith. And I personally wouldnt take him that early.

We already did this (I think in F&Ls Dynasty thread, but maybe in Xue's 2014 Prospect thread).Some compared him to Smith based on measurables. Watkins is a more well rounded and superior prospect based on skill set.

Again, if you KNEW you could get Roddy White for a decade, would you say, I don't want him with a high pick, he is too small (6'0" 215 lbs.).

* White just doesn't have elite TD numbers, but I think he leads the NFL in receptions since 2007.

If I knew what I knew now about Rody White I would pick him in the top 5.....BUT....please give me other names in this "Rody White" draft. Is Calvin on the board too? AJ? Julio? Dez? DT? If so, I pick them over him mainly for the same reasons Shah stated above. I'm not saying White/ Watkins are bad prospects in this hypothetical either, but in order for me (IMO) to justify a top 5 pick on a WR he has to have an ELITE something. Size, body control, speed, RAC etc.

I don't see a Calvin, A.J. or Julio in the draft, no. I do think he may be a better prospect than Dez and DT, and the best since the first three. I do think Watkins compares more favorably to White than Evans or Benjamin do to the top 5-types you mentioned.

Jonathan Baldwin had elite size, too.

I think Watkins does have elite speed and hands. Some aren't impressed with his acceleration or RAC skills, but I am. Like I noted above, we had this exact conversation elsewhere recently, you should check it out if you are interested.

His upside is not as high as Dez or DT due to size, but he's more polished and should time faster than either of them. I think I have agreed with the Torrey Smith comps before. I think Torrey Smith might be one of the most underrated WRs going right now. Roddy White comp size wise is very close as well. Watkins is a safe top 10 pick.

 

[Slapdash]

Like I noted above, we had this exact conversation elsewhere recently, you should check it out if you are interested.

Seems like you have had this exact same convo in serveral threads many times. We get it, you want the Rams to draft Watkins. Move on, please.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Like I noted above, we had this exact conversation elsewhere recently, you should check it out if you are interested.

Seems like you have had this exact same convo in serveral threads many times. We get it, you want the Rams to draft Watkins. Move on, please.

Or what, the Vulcan death grip.

Like your avatar. Ever get to the conventions? Always fun to see people dress up like inhabitants of Uranus.

I thought this convo was better than some previous ones (nobody said he was tiny), it was just general and had nothing to do with STL. Why reinvent the wheel? I meant to get around to posting the link anyways, rather than vaguely allude to it, so thanks for the unintentional prompt. For those interested, it is on page 52 of the [Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects thread, and involved an exchange with clopbeast. I thought Xue and Time Kibitzer made some cogent and incisive points, they were my favorite contributions. Enjoy.

* Not wedded or chained to any pick, also like LTs Robinson and Matthews, and possibly even Clowney (would prefer another position if they don't take Watkins, maybe you were mistaken because of that?). STL has a lot of holes, they just need to add blue chip, elite talent (Quinn and the punter the only Pro Bowlers), BPA is more important than pedestrian positional hole plugging to compete with the Pro Bowl stacked rosters of SEA and SF in the West. Move on, please.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

New podcast of Sig's 'On The Couch' with two draft experts, Dane Brugler and Josh Norris, as guests.

They go over many draft related subjects, that include the Seahawks success possibly influencing how other NFL teams might draft, the strength of this draft breaking out certain positions, and foccourse the top prospects including the rookie QBs with a healthy helping of Johnny Football talk,

Check it out:

=========

Feb 5 2014
2014 Volume#8a - On The Couch 2.05.2014 (#2077)
In This Episode: Sigmund Bloom, Dane Brugler (CBS/NFL Draft Scout), and Josh Norris (Rotoworld/NBC) discuss the NFL Draft. Topics Include - How Seattle will change the way players are scouted, comparing the 2014 Draft to 2013, Sorting out the quarterbacks at the top of board, favorite players outside of the top 10, plus more!

 

[matuski]

Like I noted above, we had this exact conversation elsewhere recently, you should check it out if you are interested.

Seems like you have had this exact same convo in serveral threads many times. We get it, you want the Rams to draft Watkins. Move on, please.

 

[Bob Magaw]

It bears repeating that it is a bizarre outlier position that Watkins is "tiny", when only one person on the planet holds it.

Roddy White (6'0" 215 lbs. - has the most receptions since 2007), Reggie Wayne (6'0" 200 lbs.) and Percy Harvin (5'11" 185 lbs. - was the #2 WR after only Calvin Johnson through the first half of 2012) are also all "tiny" compared to giants like A.J. Green and Dez Bryant, but Watkins weighs about the same as Green and is only an inch shorter than Bryant. He is 1"-2" taller than White, Wayne and Harvin, and weighs 5 lbs. more than Wayne and 20 lbs. more than Harvin (and has matched Harvin's track star career best 10.4-10.5 100 m.).

 

[matuski]

It bears repeating that it is a bizarre outlier position that Watkins is "tiny", when only one person on the planet holds it.

Roddy White (6'0" 215 lbs. - has the most receptions since 2007), Reggie Wayne (6'0" 200 lbs.) and Percy Harvin (5'11" 185 lbs. - was the #2 WR after only Calvin Johnson through the first half of 2012) are also all "tiny" compared to giants like A.J. Green and Dez Bryant, but Watkins weighs about the same as Green and is only an inch shorter than Bryant. He is 1"-2" taller than White, Wayne and Harvin, and weighs 5 lbs. more than Wayne and 20 lbs. more than Harvin (and has matched Harvin's track star career best 10.4-10.5 100 m.).

You are obsessed. You can go back and look at the context again if you like.

He looked tiny on that field in that game. You can't let it go, I don't know why.

As a few others have mentioned.. move on.

 

[Bob Magaw]

It bears repeating that it is a bizarre outlier position that Watkins is "tiny", when only one person on the planet holds it.

Roddy White (6'0" 215 lbs. - has the most receptions since 2007), Reggie Wayne (6'0" 200 lbs.) and Percy Harvin (5'11" 185 lbs. - was the #2 WR after only Calvin Johnson through the first half of 2012) are also all "tiny" compared to giants like A.J. Green and Dez Bryant, but Watkins weighs about the same as Green and is only an inch shorter than Bryant. He is 1"-2" taller than White, Wayne and Harvin, and weighs 5 lbs. more than Wayne and 20 lbs. more than Harvin (and has matched Harvin's track star career best 10.4-10.5 100 m.).

You are obsessed. You can go back and look at the context again if you like.

He looked tiny on that field in that game. You can't let it go, I don't know why.

As a few others have mentioned.. move on.

You are obsessed about size. You can go back and look at the context if you like.

Even qualified like here (even for a play), I don't think anybody on the planet has ever thought he looked tiny. You can't let it go, I don't know why.

Take your own advice... move on.

* I was in the middle of a conversation that started with ShaHBucks and ended with Bigboy. I wasn't specifically looking to engage you in your obsession with WR size, you have stated it before, I don't agree. You are repeating yourself. By your rationale, should you be moving on? But it is odd to interject yourself into the middle a conversation about WR size (post #460), and act surprised when we talk about WR size. If you don't want to talk about it, don't bring it up. As far as the tiny observation/commentary, you have the right to have that opinion, as I do to disagree. But I have brought it up since, this is the first time I can recall you modifying and softening your earlier position. Now that you have clarified your position, no need to bring it up again, but I don't see how I could be expected to anticipate that before you clarified it.

ShaHBucks broke out the measurables, not me. He expressed a few points, so did I. I brought up White (and Harvin) upthread. This was the point at which you said they went in the late first (again, post #460). I was aware of that, thank you for the thread. But that wasn't the question, and I think you missed the point. It was, IN THIS DRAFT, if you knew how good they were going to be, would you take them top 5. The fact that they went later is irrelevant. For one thing, Watkins won't go in the late first. So the question is, if Watkins shares a constellation of some physical traits and skill set attributes of other, non-jumbo-sized top 5-10 type WRs such as White and Harvin (and Wayne) that have enjoyed success in the NFL, it doesn't make sense to me to categorically rule him out based on his size. You also put up the nodding yes smiley in response to the question, why would a team draft high a small to mid-size WR that isn't as big as Calvin, AJ, Julio, DT and Dez, further seeming to confuse the size issue and miss the point that smaller WRs like White, Harvin and Wayne can be top 10.

Another time when we discussed Watkins (just to place it for you, around the time of the tiny comment), you noted preferring Evans to Watkins as he is more like the successful bigger WRs. I pointed out I thought that neglected the fact that the above WRs are or play faster than Evans, so IMO it was a misplaced or misguided comp. I don't recall you addressing this?

It is bizarre, though, for you to involve yourself in the conversation, but when I converse with others, to get a complaint about having a conversation (Spock). Which is it? Your comments/smileys increase the chance I expand on the subject. Someone else complains to shut it down. Again, which is it?

Bigboy understood the points discussed above I think you missed. I asked if it was known how good White was going to be, would he be worth a top 5 pick. Bigboy concurred, first asking a good question, did the other top 5 NFL WRs get to be in the draft. I said I don't see anybody that resembles them, so no.

At some point, I mentioned to Bigboy that we had an earlier conversation in the Xue's Dynasty 2014 Thread. I wasn't brushing him off, but I found it a representative conversation about Watkins, very similar, if not identical, to the one we were having at the time. I thought Xue and Time Kibitzer made some outstanding points, which is why I recommended them to his attention, and implicitly, to anybody else in the thread interested. So, ironically, in pointing to the earlier, very similar exchange, I was trying to write less, not more, which the complaint was about. If I had written more, I would have been criticized. But I wrote less, and I was criticized, so clearly I was going to be wrong no matter what regarding the complaint. It was not about STL, so the complaint was mistaken. The complaint pretends to speak for everybody, but doesn't. Some in the thread may be interested in ongoing discussions about the importance of size as it relates to Watkins, some may not. Generally, the ones that aren't... move on, without complaining on behalf of others when they have no idea what they are talking about.

I never assume everybody has ready every post in every thread. If it is redundant to you or Spock... move on.

 

[gandalas]

For those that like to play with mock drafts here you go.

They update data every Tuesday.

They value a few players a bit low but it's fun to play with since you can choose to draft as any team for any number of rounds from 1 to 7.

http://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/

Drafting as Miami... tempted to go radical and take a QB in the first.. but ended up targeting the defense and upgrading the running game.

19 CB DARQUEZE DENNARD - MICHIGAN STATE

50 DE SCOTT CRICHTON - OREGON STATE

81 DT DOMINIQUE EASLEY - FLORIDA

112 RB CARLOS HYDE - OHIO STATE

143 OT AUSTIN WENTWORTH - FRESNO STATE

174 G KADEEM EDWARDS - TENNESSEE STATE

211 S SEAN PARKER - WASHINGTON

drafted through 4 rounds as Cleveland...fun stuff.

1.4: Sammy Watkins, WR Clemson

1.26: Darqueze Dennard, CB MSU

2.35: David Yankey, OG Stanford

3.71: Lache Seastrunk, RB Baylor

3.83: Zach Mettenberger, QB LSU

4.102: Paul Richardson, WR COL

4.123: AJ McCarron, QB AL

Our Offense would be great with Watkins, Gordon, Richardson at WR, Cameron at TE, Seastrunk at RB, and possibly the top G in the draft to shore up our only weak spot on our offensive line. Mettenberger and McCarron can battle for our QBoftheFuture spot behind Hoyer for a season, and we get the best CB in the draft to line up across from Joe Haden. Carlos Hyde was also there at 3.71 if they wanted the large pounder as opposed to the quicker, undersized Seastrunk.

2nd attempt, going all 7 rounds:

1.4: Teddy Bridgewater. He was there at #4 this time, and I had to pull the trigger.

1.26: Darqueze Dennard. Gotta have the guy if he lasts that long.

2.35: Marquise Lee, WR USC. Lots of great WRs in this draft...this guy would be a nice bookend to Gordon.

3.71 Bishop Sankey, RB Washington. Once again, passed on Hyde to take another RB.

3.83: Terrance Brooks, FS Florida State. We need some safety help, and he would be a nice guy to put next to Haden, Dennard, and Ward.

4.102: Anthony Steen, G AL. Plug him in at RG and our line is much better.

4.123: Andrew Norwell, G/OT Ohio State. Guy who can play all along the line.

5.133: De'Anthony Thomas, RB Oregon. Speed, Speed, Speed. Guy who would instantly be one of the best returners in football, and deadly with the ball in his hands.

6.164: Tajh Boyd, QB Clemson. Guy who was a possible #1 pick early in the year. Great guy to have as a backup, ala Cousins pairing with RG3.

7.195: Corey Latimer, WR IND. Little and Bess have to go, so we need a lot of guys at the WR position. Needs some work, but definitely has some skills.

 

[pantherclub]

/\ I know this is your mock but I have seen countless others projecting Watkins to the Browns. I really dont understand this at all. Dont they have a ton of holes to fill and wr/te is pretty solid overall? Or would Cleveland be covering their bases thinking Gordon may go off the rails again?

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

ESPN's Louis Riddick sees three pass rushers who can win one on one on the edge in the 2014 class.
"That's it," Riddick tweeted. "Key point being 1 on 1 rush." We think two of the three are obvious: South Carolina's Jadeveon Clowney and Buffalo's Khalil Mack. The third could be a number of prospects, but we would guess Auburn's Dee Ford. A few other possibilities include Marcus Smith from Louisville, Jeremiah Attaochu from Georgia Tech and Anthony Barr from UCLA.

Source: Louis Riddick on Twitter

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Auburn T Greg Robinson reportedly "looks like a freak" in Combine training, according to draft insider Tony Pauline.
This is no surprise, and Pauline adds the monstrous offensive lineman is an "absolute beast." Robinson produces so much power through his lower half as a blocker and delivers a mauling punch and drive in the running game. He is the favorite to be the first offensive lineman off the board.

Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter

ESPN's Louis Riddick continues to hear how exceptional Auburn edge rusher Dee Ford's personal and football character are.
Riddick notes this will go over well at the Combine. Ford, who produced very good tape this season and an even better Senior Bowl, has been called a gym junkie who prioritizes health and fitness. Our own Josh Norris recently ranked Ford over UCLA's Anthony Barr.

Source: Louis Riddick on Twitter

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Rotoworld:

ESPN's Louis Riddick sees three pass rushers who can win one on one on the edge in the 2014 class.
"That's it," Riddick tweeted. "Key point being 1 on 1 rush." We think two of the three are obvious: South Carolina's Jadeveon Clowney and Buffalo's Khalil Mack. The third could be a number of prospects, but we would guess Auburn's Dee Ford. A few other possibilities include Marcus Smith from Louisville, Jeremiah Attaochu from Georgia Tech and Anthony Barr from UCLA.

Source: Louis Riddick on Twitter

What a ridiculous tweet. Out of 220+ players to be drafted only 3 can win a 1 on 1 pass rush. I just wish there was a way to hold these clowns more accountable.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Carlos Hyde - RB - Player



New Browns OC Kyle Shanahan indicated he's looking for more of a sustaining-type running back than homerun hitter.

In other words, former Redskins playcaller Shanahan is looking for his next Alfred Morris. "You want a [back] who can press holes, get downhill and always get good yards per carry, not always looking for the home run," Shanahan explained. "It’d be nice to keep feeding a guy and his longest run in the game might be 10 yards, but still at the end of the game, he’s averaging 4.2 per carry. I just want a consistent running game." It sounds like Shanahan would prefer a back like Ohio State's Carlos Hyde over Arizona's Ka'Deem Carey.

Related: Browns

Source: Akron Beacon-Journal

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

ESPN Chicago's Mike C. Wright could "definitely" envision the Bears using the No. 14 pick in May's draft on Florida State DT Timmy Jernigan.

Mel Kiper and Todd McShay's most recent mock drafts have Chicago selecting Jernigan, and Wright agrees with their logic. Defensive line was a huge weakness for the 2013 Bears, as they were relentlessly gashed by opposing run games and got no interior penetration after losing Henry Melton for the year. Jernigan goes 6-foot-2, 292 and would play "three technique" in Chicago.

Related: Bears

Source: ESPN Chicago

 

[Donnybrook]

NFL analysts: Blake Bortles could be mistake for Texans

That is the first interview I have seen with Bortles. He is a good public speaker. I am becoming more convinced that he could actually go #1. If I did a mock today I would put Bortles to the Texans.

BTW: I found this pic of Bortles, Brett Smith, Keith Price and Jordon Palmer. https://twitter.com/rvcasport/status/428740767515803649/photo/1 I was disapponted to find that Brett Smith looks only to be just above 6' tall (Keith Price's height). Brett Smith is probably similar in stature to Johnny Manziel.

 

[Village Idiot]

/\ I know this is your mock but I have seen countless others projecting Watkins to the Browns. I really dont understand this at all. Dont they have a ton of holes to fill and wr/te is pretty solid overall? Or would Cleveland be covering their bases thinking Gordon may go off the rails again?

WR is not solid at all.Gordon is a #1.

Little sucks as the #2.

Bess was the slot receiver #3.

Oof.

Drafting Watkins would make it very hard for defenses to defend against the Browns passing game.

The Browns also have 5 picks in I believe the top 83.

They have enough draft picks plus free agency, if they can get anyone to sign with them, to fill in holes.

Plus this draft is fairly deep at most of teh spots where they have a need.

CB not so much but OL, WR, RB look good.

Of course not taking a QB at 4 might not be wise to some, but I'm not thrilled with the choices likely to be there at 4.

 

[ShaHBucks]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

* You seem to have a few contrarian takes. Still think Manziel probably won't get drafted?

No. From a supply and demand standpoint it isn't hard to find a capable WR who lacks hight or size later in the draft or UDFA. As great as Harvin is, the Vikians made the playoffs without him; Sea won the Super Bowl with Tate and Baldwin receiving majority of the snaps. This is coming from someone who considers Harvin the best slot/speed weapon in the league. I don't think the position is that important.

Roddy White is 6'1+. Not that much of an height issue in my book considering the rest of his resume in comparison to other great big receivers historically. If you want to classify him as a more physical, downfield/over-the-top, heavy red-zone threat type WR he will grade out just fine. White and Harvin are in different ballparks for staters, but I'll save my Watkins comparisons for after the combine. I even heard Mel Kiper say mockdrafts are purely for entertainment purposes without all of the data. I agree.

Watkins looks like a wonderful talent. To be top-5 I need to see something that I can't dig for in the 3rd-4th round. I simply stated that I understanding reaching for a rare commodity like Calvin Johnson, or moving around for Julio Jones in hopes of taking your passing game to another level. So unless a WR is a 6’3”+, 220+ pound freak of nature who runs a 4.3+ 40-time with dominant college production, I would not be interested in a heavy investment in them as an NFL GM. Solid, sometimes great, WRs are available for next to nothing later in the NFL Draft or as undrafted free agents. Most of the smaller recievers are situation dependent. Stick Watkins in Oak and lets see what happends.

You threw out a ton of Tavon Austin what ifs.. What if there really was a receiver in the same class who ran the same 40x, had a better vert, broad jump and bench press while being 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Austin. His best receiving season vs SEC competition was 89 rec., 1,207 yards, 11 TDs. The kicker is he was drafted in the 6th round. His name is Ryan Swope. I'm sure you still could care less about Swope after reading that. I'll just maintain that there is enough small WRs with good resumes in every draft that you shouldn't fall in love with them too hard inside of the first two rounds. I do have a receiver in this class who is looking "elite" right now even after assuming a modest combine. Its not Evans, Watkins or Lee. He's going to be a real bargain. Remember the Alshon Jeffrey bandwagon? Sometimes being a contrarian isn't a bad thing

I don't recall saying Manziel wouldn't get drafted.

 

[Bob Magaw]

It's all commentary. I don't know why a team would take a small-mid size reciever with a high pick. Dez, Julio, DT, AJ, Calvin type I could understand.

If you thought you were getting Roddy White or Percy Harvin without the migraines and injury issues, would you spend a top 5 pick on him if he graded that high in a given draft class (I mean if you really knew they were going to be that good, you might not be so strict about the height?).

* You seem to have a few contrarian takes. Still think Manziel probably won't get drafted?

No. From a supply and demand standpoint it isn't hard to find a capable WR who lacks hight or size later in the draft or UDFA. As great as Harvin is, the Vikians made the playoffs without him; Sea won the Super Bowl with Tate and Baldwin receiving majority of the snaps. This is coming from someone who considers Harvin the best slot/speed weapon in the league. I don't think the position is that important.

Roddy White is 6'1+. Not that much of an height issue in my book considering the rest of his resume in comparison to other great big receivers historically. If you want to classify him as a more physical, downfield/over-the-top, heavy red-zone threat type WR he will grade out just fine. White and Harvin are in different ballparks for staters, but I'll save my Watkins comparisons for after the combine. I even heard Mel Kiper say mockdrafts are purely for entertainment purposes without all of the data. I agree.

Watkins looks like a wonderful talent. To be top-5 I need to see something that I can't dig for in the 3rd-4th round. I simply stated that I understanding reaching for a rare commodity like Calvin Johnson, or moving around for Julio Jones in hopes of taking your passing game to another level. So unless a WR is a 6’3”+, 220+ pound freak of nature who runs a 4.3+ 40-time with dominant college production, I would not be interested in a heavy investment in them as an NFL GM. Solid, sometimes great, WRs are available for next to nothing later in the NFL Draft or as undrafted free agents. Most of the smaller recievers are situation dependent. Stick Watkins in Oak and lets see what happends.

You threw out a ton of Tavon Austin what ifs.. What if there really was a receiver in the same class who ran the same 40x, had a better vert, broad jump and bench press while being 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Austin. His best receiving season vs SEC competition was 89 rec., 1,207 yards, 11 TDs. The kicker is he was drafted in the 6th round. His name is Ryan Swope. I'm sure you still could care less about Swope after reading that. I'll just maintain that there is enough small WRs with good resumes in every draft that you shouldn't fall in love with them too hard inside of the first two rounds. I do have a receiver in this class who is looking "elite" right now even after assuming a modest combine. Its not Evans, Watkins or Lee. He's going to be a real bargain. Remember the Alshon Jeffrey bandwagon? Sometimes being a contrarian isn't a bad thing

I don't recall saying Manziel wouldn't get drafted.

edit/add - EXEC SUMMARY VERSION: It is hard to answer questions like this in a vacuum. If you don't take a WR, you have to take SOME position. But what if you don't need those other positions (lets say this year you don't need a QB, LT or LB?), where the BPA grade is in line with your top 5 pick. Personally, in that case, I wouldn't categorically rule out taking one in that case, rather than reach for a lower graded position. Especially if I needed a WR?

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Good points, you did a great job articulating your position, I appreciate the response.

I'll stand by what I've said before about Watkins, or whether WR height/size should be a deal breaker with a top 5 pick, or even whether he is height challenged.

Super Bowls have been won with just about every conceivable permuation of having certain types or not having those types at virtually EVERY position. Some teams had great QBs, RBs, WRs, some didn't. Some had great defenses, some didn't.

We could probably tick off every position, and say the same thing, you could get a player in the third round (or later) that you could get in the first. No different than WR. Do you have a specific position or player/s in mind to illustrate how that position or player is different from the state of affairs I noted, where you could only get them (or be a lot more likely to get them) in the first, but not later?

Sometimes you win the Super Bowl with Tate and Baldwin, sometimes you don't. That is situational and contextual. They have an unbelievably good defense. But if you don't have one of the greatest safeties ever in Earl Thomas, not easy to construct a defense like that. BAL won with Dilfer, but they also had an unbelievable defense, Hall of Famers in Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. A lot of teams don't have that, so they need to build differently.

What if you want to upgrade at WR, but there is no Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones. You could wait until next year, but maybe there isn't one that year either. Maybe there is the year later, but you don't have a high enough pick. So you can settle for lesser graded WRs, and like every position, sometimes getting a lower pick works, sometimes it doesn't. For every Keenan Allen or Antonio Brown, there are a lot of mediocre WRs. Like any position, sometimes you get what you pay for in the later rounds.

I don't know a lot about Swope other than he reportedly had concussion issues, and I think may have had trouble getting cleared to play after being drafted (was he waived by ARI, or put on some form of injury list?), so that could have impacted his grade.

The only think I'd add in this context is I understand more with Watkins because he is unknown. In the thought experiment sense where you were actually getting Roddy White, I view that as we already know with hindsight you are getting a top 10 WR. You are effectively taking on zero bust risk. Since there is no Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones, who else can we say that about in this draft. Is there a QB, WR, LT, DE or LB with zero risk (I think that sums up the positions likely to be in play for a top 5 pick - not RB, TE, center or guard, DT or DB - of course subject to change if Ebron or Dennard run a 4.20! )? So than you are taking on varying levels of bust risk (maybe as high as 50% in some cases), which you aren't with White. If a team was VERY confident in their scouting, or determined to get a certain position, maybe they do that. This is just a thought experiment. But if they needed a WR as much or more as they needed a QB or LT or DE, and maybe they have pretty good solutions there... and lets say White, because he is in the draft, is given a final grade of 1.3 overall, and the defensive players I might take have lower grades, I wouldn't reach for a defensive player (that again could have some level of bust risk when White has a 100% success rate, you know what you are getting - and I do literally mean he could be rookie age again, not talking about a guy in his 30s, in post #464 I mentioned getting him for a decade, hopefully that was clear, as much as a hypothetical or thought experiment can be), because that 1.3 grade WR isn't 6'3"+ and 220 lbs.+?

* Thanks for the correction about Manziel, I must have misremembered.

 

[Faust]

Pete Prisco has released his first mock draft:

Mock Draft No. 1: Bortles over Manziel for Texans with top pick

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Daniel Jeremiah just updated his top-fifty list.

Here are the top-five.

Go to the link for the rest of the full-fifty.

http://www.nfl.com/top50

1. DE Jadeveon Clowney

2. WR Sammy Watkins

3. OT Greg Robinson

4. OLB Anthony Barr

5. OLB Kahlil Mack

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What are guys seeing in Mack to have him ranked this high today?

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Scouts Inc. has dropped UCLA edge rusher Anthony Barr to No. 16 in their latest rankings.

Barr has been frequently listed among the draft's top prospects, but our own Josh Norris lists the athletic pass rusher at No. 21 overall. Todd McShay recently said he was disappointed when reviewing Barr's tape, and we agree. The UCLA Bruin should show well at the Combine, but expect his ranking to drop once NFL teams get in the media's ear.


Source: ESPN

 

[cstu]

Rotoworld:

Jimmy Garoppolo - QB - Panthers
Former NFL scout John Middlekauff notes teams will attempt to mimic Seattle's personnel style in draft meetings over the next few weeks.
As Middlekauff points out, it will not be easy. The Seahawks made the most of their window thanks to young stars still on their rookie deals complemented by impact short-term free agents. Landing a starting quarterback in the third-round after taking multiple mid-level shots at the position is very, very difficult, and decision makers must be very comfortable in their situation to take the road less traveled. Eastern Illinois' Jimmy Garoppolo could be that second day quarterback selection on many teams' boards thanks to his quick feet, release and decision making.


Source: John Middlekauff on Twitter

Having watched a lot of video of Garoppolo I'm surprised he's not in the discussion of going in the 1st to the Cardinals. That release of his is as good as anyone in the NFL and he's accurate. He seems like he would be a good fit for AZ's weapons, just not Arians' offense. If the Jaguars don't take a QB in the first I expect them to take him in the 2nd.

 

[cstu]

What are guys seeing in Mack to have him ranked this high today?

He's a tremendous pass rusher, think of him as a poor man's Von Miller.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What are guys seeing in Mack to have him ranked this high today?

He's a tremendous pass rusher, think of him as a poor man's Von Miller.

I have read a lot about him but I guess I'm not sure what people can see to have him ranked top 5. He didnt play againt top competition and after looking at his number it doesnt appear as if he dominated either. I would think he could be top 5 after workouts and stuff but today it seems very premature.

 

[Premier]

He absolutely dominated and pummeled Ohio State. Watch that film.

The rest of the competition double and tripled teamed him all year. He never had a chance with that poor supporting cast around him.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Mack set or tied some college records for TFL and FFs (latter might have been by KC ILB Derrick Johnson, than with Texas). I've heard he is a good enough athlete to cover, which could indeed make him rare with his tackling and play making prowess, and ability to pass rush at a high level. The Ohio State game is cited a lot for level of competition concerns, as noted. He has moved up a bit if he is in some top fives, but he has been top 10 for a while. Previously, it was the de rigueur pick to BUF in countless mocks, not just because he is a local product.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@NFLCharean: Mike Evans will do everything at the combine, he said. He will not participate in A&M's Pro Day, working instead with Manziel on March 27.

 

[Donnybrook]

Rotoworld:

ESPN Chicago's Mike C. Wright could "definitely" envision the Bears using the No. 14 pick in May's draft on Florida State DT Timmy Jernigan.

Mel Kiper and Todd McShay's most recent mock drafts have Chicago selecting Jernigan, and Wright agrees with their logic. Defensive line was a huge weakness for the 2013 Bears, as they were relentlessly gashed by opposing run games and got no interior penetration after losing Henry Melton for the year. Jernigan goes 6-foot-2, 292 and would play "three technique" in Chicago.

Related: Bears

Source: ESPN Chicago

Sure seeing a lot of love for Tim Jernigan. He has become the highest rated DT. Jeremiah has him at 6. With him only being a one year fulltime starter, he has to be higher risk pick in the his top 10.

 

[Sabertooth]

From a Dynasty perspective, what does this year's depth look like? Anyone with insight? I have three second round dynasty picks. Just wondering what they are worth?