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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (2 Viewers)

ShamrockPride said:
Just when I start to think Silver is starting to turn things around under his own regime, this suspension happens. I hope GS wipes the floor with LeBron's s*** stained shorts tomorrow.
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Yea it's totally cool for a guy to keep taking nut shots at other players. :thumbup:  

 
I'm not sure how you can logically argue around Green dickpunch ---> flagrant foul, flagrant foul #4 ----> 1 game suspension.

Lebron got a tech too, but he hasn't spent the entire playoffs socking dudes in the dong. :shrug:

 
If Lebron ever tries to goad you, way better to go to the "Delonte West got up in your mom's guts" card than actual physical violence. I'm like 60% sure that's how KG got him to freeze up in that one series against Boston.

 
On a flight to Houston this morning and Coach D'Antoni and his wife are on the flight.  My son is a huge Rockets fan so I went up and talked to them and asked for an autograph.  Couldn't have been nicer to some stranger bothering them at 6am. I wanted to leave them alone but his wife kept talking to me.  Really nice of them and he wrote a cool note to my son.  

I wanted to say too bad you have a team with some knuckleheads but instead just told him good luck in their upcoming season.

 
AAABatteries said:
On a flight to Houston this morning and Coach D'Antoni and his wife are on the flight.  My son is a huge Rockets fan so I went up and talked to them and asked for an autograph.  Couldn't have been nicer to some stranger bothering them at 6am. I wanted to leave them alone but his wife kept talking to me.  Really nice of them and he wrote a cool note to my son.  

I wanted to say too bad you have a team with some knuckleheads but instead just told him good luck in their upcoming season.
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My dad played for D'Antoni's dad in high school.  I've only met Mike once, but I've been around Dan and their sister a few times.  Really nice family.

 
Lebron's #### getting far more respect than Andre Iquodala's. Half the Cavs have a good idea what Iqqy's snake feels like and yet no real fuss has been made when they slap that anaconda.

 
I like the warriors fans acting like Lebron is the bad guy here. Players angle for calls and bait each other all the time. Draymond fell for it. He usually does, which is why he gets so many technicals and now has a second flagrant 1  

thats the entire story. 

 
Lebron was also trying to bait Curry at the end of game 4.  I lost a lot of respect for him in the closing minutes of this past game.  Bush league tactics for a player that clearly is on the decline.

Sometimes you need to be careful what you ask for.  The Warriors will be softer without Green on paper, but I suspect we see Andre on James almost exclusively.  I also think the crowd will be loudest they have been all year.  Vegas moved the line only 2.5 points and still have the Warriors winning by 5.5.  

and yes I do think the crowd is going to call Lebron a ##### all game long (and deservedly so after baiting the Warriors top two players and then crying to league officials about it at every turn).   

 
guys, let's just agree Lebron is not just the worst player in the NBA but also the worst human being to ever walk the planet

the evidence is right there for everyone to see

we should all be ashamed to share the same oxygen as someone who has failed so miserably at every aspect of existence

 
David Dodds said:
Lebron was also trying to bait Curry at the end of game 4.  I lost a lot of respect for him in the closing minutes of this past game.  Bush league tactics for a player that clearly is on the decline.

Sometimes you need to be careful what you ask for.  The Warriors will be softer without Green on paper, but I suspect we see Andre on James almost exclusively.  I also think the crowd will be loudest they have been all year.  Vegas moved the line only 2.5 points and still have the Warriors winning by 5.5.  

and yes I do think the crowd is going to call Lebron a ##### all game long (and deservedly so after baiting the Warriors top two players and then crying to league officials about it at every turn).   
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Not sure you'll find many takers on the "clearly on the decline" bait. 

 
LeBron being soft is not a new thing.  Neither is what Draymond did.

Warriors are still going to win this series.  If somehow they don't then it's their own damn fault.

 
Short Corner said:
Really?  Seems pretty obvious.
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His three point percentage dropped this year, otherwise he was ahead of his career averages in points, assists, and rebounds and he won the east again. Exactly which part of his game aside from the 3% is "remotely" in decline, never mind "clearly"?

 
Abraham said:
His three point percentage dropped this year, otherwise he was ahead of his career averages in points, assists, and rebounds and he won the east again. Exactly which part of his game aside from the 3% is "remotely" in decline, never mind "clearly"?
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You're taking the bait that you said nobody would take...

 
Here is an accurate assessment from Hoops Hype on Lebron James (written in Jan of this year)

http://hoopshype.com/2016/01/12/these-five-stars-are-quietly-leaving-their-primes/

James is still one of the best players in the NBA, and he’s averaging 25.8 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.0 assists per game – not far removed from his career averages or even some of his best seasons. By the end of the year he’ll be deservedly in the Top 5 in MVP voting and will take his place on either the first or second team All-NBA.

It may not be obvious by his stats, but the first indications of his aging are starting to show in some of the more advanced numbers… even if his overall production and effectiveness has yet to decrease noticeably.

The league average around the basket is around 55 percent every season, and LeBron James has continually been by far the best finisher in the NBA consistently over the past years, only matched in individual years by players who exclusive dunk the ball such as DeAndre Jordan andTyson Chandler. In 2013-14, his last season in Miami, LeBron finished a preposterous 504 of his 673 field goal attempts, a 74.9 percent rate, at the basket. This season, James is down to 64.9 percent, which is still elite, but down from his crazy historic levels.

More interestingly, the first signs of LeBron’s decline are better shown by the fact that he has been blocked nearly twice as often within ten feet of the basket, compared to previous seasons. Up from around 5 percent of James’ attempts being blocked, closer to 9 percent in 2015-16.

 
David Dodds said:
Lebron was also trying to bait Curry at the end of game 4.  I lost a lot of respect for him in the closing minutes of this past game.  Bush league tactics for a player that clearly is on the decline.

Sometimes you need to be careful what you ask for.  The Warriors will be softer without Green on paper, but I suspect we see Andre on James almost exclusively.  I also think the crowd will be loudest they have been all year.  Vegas moved the line only 2.5 points and still have the Warriors winning by 5.5.  

and yes I do think the crowd is going to call Lebron a ##### all game long (and deservedly so after baiting the Warriors top two players and then crying to league officials about it at every turn).   
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LeBron's words with Curry were about Curry's cheap tactics to try to draw undeserved foul calls.  Curry is prone to throwing himself to the ground when a defender closes in on him to contest his shot to try to draw cheap fouls.  He does it because the refs call it, but it's the offense equivalent of flopping to draw a charge on defense.  

Curry also likes to entangle himself in opponents to draw cheap fouls.  See the play earlier this series where Curry stuck his arm by LeBron's armpit then acted like LeBron grabbed his arm wasn't letting go.  He gyrated and yelled for several steps until he drew a whistle.  And this was away from the ball and behind the play.  There's a lot to like about Curry's game, but Curry has no high ground if we're going to start throwing around beyotch accusations.

GSW whines to the officials CONSTANTLY.  Unfortunately, Kerr and Walton set the tone on that.  Neither are experienced enough to pick their spots to work the refs properly.  Fortunately, they've constructed a team so strong it doesn't matter most nights, but how many experienced coaches get technicals on the way to the locker room before halftime?  

Interested in see you unpack what you mean by LeBron being "clearly in decline".  On the surface I disagree, but it is a subjective claim.

GSW is a better team than CLE with Green.  GSW is a better team than CLE without Green.  GSW set the league record for wins in a season, and after they win the Finals they will draw favorable comparisons to the greatest single-season and two-season teams in all professional sports.  If you're surprised GSW is still favored tonight without Green, you haven't been paying attention to what GSW has been doing to last two years.  

I'd expect a lot of "LeBron is a #####" from the crowd.  Most of the fans in the crowd tonight are relatively new to the sport and aren't very clever trash-talkers.  It takes more than 2-3 years of fandom experience to come up with something more clever than "LeBron is a #####".

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
LeBron's words with Curry were about Curry's cheap tactics to try to draw undeserved foul calls.  Curry is prone to throwing himself to the ground when a defender closes in on him to contest his shot to try to draw cheap fouls.  He does it because the refs call it, but it's the offense equivalent of flopping to draw a charge on defense.  

Curry also likes to entangle himself in opponents to draw cheap fouls.  See the play earlier this series where Curry stuck his arm by LeBron's armpit then acted like LeBron grabbed his arm wasn't letting go.  He gyrated and yelled for several steps until he drew a whistle.  And this was away from the ball and behind the play.  There's a lot to like about Curry's game, but Curry has no high ground if we're going to start throwing around beyotch accusations.

GSW whines to the officials CONSTANTLY.  Unfortunately, Kerr and Walton set the tone on that.  Neither are experienced enough to pick their spots to work the refs properly.  Fortunately, they've constructed a team so strong it doesn't matter most nights, but how many experienced coaches get technicals on the way to the locker room before halftime?  

Interested in see you unpack what you mean by LeBron being "clearly in decline".  On the surface I disagree, but it is a subjective claim.

GSW is a better team than CLE with Green.  GSW is a better team than CLE without Green.  GSW set the league record for wins in a season, and after they win the Finals they will draw favorable comparisons to the greatest single-season and two-season teams in all professional sports.  If you're surprised GSW is still favored tonight without Green, you haven't been paying attention to what GSW has been doing to last two years.  

I'd expect a lot of "LeBron is a #####" from the crowd.  Most of the fans in the crowd tonight are relatively new to the sport and aren't very clever trash-talkers.  It takes more than 2-3 years of fandom experience to come up with something more clever than "LeBron is a #####".
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But really only takes playing one game against him to see that he really is indeed a little #####.

 
Abraham said:
His three point percentage dropped this year, otherwise he was ahead of his career averages in points, assists, and rebounds and he won the east again. Exactly which part of his game aside from the 3% is "remotely" in decline, never mind "clearly"?
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He use to fly, glide, and quick guys, now he lowers his shoulder clearly looking for a foul.  He does not try to beat you, he wants the refs to do it.  I can't recall his last drive where he did not seek contact rather than the basket, except in garbage time last game where they let him score so as to avoid any possibility of a three point play.  I'm tired of seeing him jam his left forearm into guarding players larynxes every time he drives.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
He use to fly, glide, and quick guys, now he lowers his shoulder clearly looking for a foul.  He does not try to beat you, he wants the refs to do it.  I can't recall his last drive where he did not seek contact rather than the basket, except in garbage time last game where they let him score so as to avoid any possibility of a three point play.  I'm tired of seeing him jam his left forearm into guarding players larynxes every time he drives.
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What happens if the Warriors lose tonight then in game 6 Draymond gets another flagrant? Does the tally reset or is he suspended again after another?

 
David Dodds said:
Here is an accurate assessment from Hoops Hype on Lebron James (written in Jan of this year)

http://hoopshype.com/2016/01/12/these-five-stars-are-quietly-leaving-their-primes/

James is still one of the best players in the NBA, and he’s averaging 25.8 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.0 assists per game – not far removed from his career averages or even some of his best seasons. By the end of the year he’ll be deservedly in the Top 5 in MVP voting and will take his place on either the first or second team All-NBA.

It may not be obvious by his stats, but the first indications of his aging are starting to show in some of the more advanced numbers… even if his overall production and effectiveness has yet to decrease noticeably.

The league average around the basket is around 55 percent every season, and LeBron James has continually been by far the best finisher in the NBA consistently over the past years, only matched in individual years by players who exclusive dunk the ball such as DeAndre Jordan andTyson Chandler. In 2013-14, his last season in Miami, LeBron finished a preposterous 504 of his 673 field goal attempts, a 74.9 percent rate, at the basket. This season, James is down to 64.9 percent, which is still elite, but down from his crazy historic levels.

More interestingly, the first signs of LeBron’s decline are better shown by the fact that he has been blocked nearly twice as often within ten feet of the basket, compared to previous seasons. Up from around 5 percent of James’ attempts being blocked, closer to 9 percent in 2015-16.
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According to Basketball Reference, he shot 72.2% between 0-3 feet from the hoop this year. Down from his career average of 72.5%, and his peak of 79.6% two years ago. Part of the reason for the drop may be associated with his jump from 35% of his career shots coming from that distance to 46% this season rather than a significant loss of athleticism. You mentioned two of the big athletic markers of players that start to slip as they age, but the bigger one for perimeter players is probably the share of their shots that become jump shots. You could really see this in Kobe's decline his last 5 or 6 years.

 
thecatch said:
Suspended again I believe. 
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From NBA.com:

In addition, in order to address the problem of repeat offenders, the following three-point system will be in effect during the 2010 Playoffs:

• Flagrant "1" = 1 point

• Flagrant "2" = 2 points

A player will receive the points set forth above for each flagrant foul committed during the Playoffs. If the player's Playoff total exceeds 3 points, he will receive an automatic suspension following the game in which his point total exceeds 3 points and for each additional flagrant foul committed during the Playoffs, as follows:

Player at 2 points commits a FFP2: automatic one-game suspension

Player at 3 or 4 points commits a FFP1: automatic one-game suspension

Player at 3 or 4 points commits a FFP2: automatic two-game suspension

Player at 5 points or more commits a FFP1 or FFP2: automatic two-game suspension
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Bruce has to be fishing right or does he really not like the Dubs?

Can't tell as I'm biased, but the whole Curry over acting is ridiculous. Curry gets held and grabbed more so than anyone. If anything Curry needs to sell calls more because he barely gets any.

 
Kev4029 said:
According to Basketball Reference, he shot 72.2% between 0-3 feet from the hoop this year. Down from his career average of 72.5%, and his peak of 79.6% two years ago. Part of the reason for the drop may be associated with his jump from 35% of his career shots coming from that distance to 46% this season rather than a significant loss of athleticism. You mentioned two of the big athletic markers of players that start to slip as they age, but the bigger one for perimeter players is probably the share of their shots that become jump shots. You could really see this in Kobe's decline his last 5 or 6 years.
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A lot of the decline numbers cited in January stabilized by the end of the season.  The blocked rate dropped a bit, and he finished the season with an sharp increase in And1's.  So we've got defenders more willing to challenge LeBron at the hoop, but the results are a wash.  
All the hustle stats are still there, despite observations that LeBron is resting more on defense and in general put it in cruise-control more often during the regular season.
LeBron's 3PT% over his career has largely been a function of how effective his teammates have been at getting him open threes.  His best 3PT% seasons were his last three seasons in MIA, when he played in an offense that emphasized spacing and had players who could draw enough attention for LeBron to get the ball back later in the possession for an open shot.  
If you look at LeBron's % of FGA by distance, in general this season he took more shots closer to the basket: fewer threes, fewer long twos, more shots in the pile.  Like you said, usually when a wing is in decline he's taking more long twos and threes and stops penetrating.  That's not what we've seen with LeBron.  

 
No. 16 said:
Bruce has to be fishing right or does he really not like the Dubs?

Can't tell as I'm biased, but the whole Curry over acting is ridiculous. Curry gets held and grabbed more so than anyone. If anything Curry needs to sell calls more because he barely gets any.
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All the name guys go overboard trying to get calls.  Same as its always been.

 
No. 16 said:
Bruce has to be fishing right or does he really not like the Dubs?

Can't tell as I'm biased, but the whole Curry over acting is ridiculous. Curry gets held and grabbed more so than anyone. If anything Curry needs to sell calls more because he barely gets any.
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I think it's closer to a wash watching him hold and grab constantly on the other end.

 
No. 16 said:
Bruce has to be fishing right or does he really not like the Dubs?

Can't tell as I'm biased, but the whole Curry over acting is ridiculous. Curry gets held and grabbed more so than anyone. If anything Curry needs to sell calls more because he barely gets any.
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7.2 FTA per 100 possessions is near the top end for PGs, and extraordinary for a guy who spends so much of his time 22-25 feet from the basket.

 
Abraham said:
His three point percentage dropped this year, otherwise he was ahead of his career averages in points, assists, and rebounds and he won the east again. Exactly which part of his game aside from the 3% is "remotely" in decline, never mind "clearly"?
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:lmao:

This is my favorite LeBron schtick going.

 
Abraham said:
His three point percentage dropped this year, otherwise he was ahead of his career averages in points, assists, and rebounds and he won the east again. Exactly which part of his game aside from the 3% is "remotely" in decline, never mind "clearly"?
Click to expand...
Hey Archimedes, if you want to check if someone is in decline you wouldn't compare stats versus career averages, but versus prior 3 or 4 years or versus peak (you decide).  Careers typically work in an arc.  Hope this helps with your analysis.

 
No. 16 said:
Bruce has to be fishing right or does he really not like the Dubs?

Can't tell as I'm biased, but the whole Curry over acting is ridiculous. Curry gets held and grabbed more so than anyone. If anything Curry needs to sell calls more because he barely gets any.
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Biggest homer in here, IMO.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
A lot of the decline numbers cited in January stabilized by the end of the season.  The blocked rate dropped a bit, and he finished the season with an sharp increase in And1's.  So we've got defenders more willing to challenge LeBron at the hoop, but the results are a wash.  
All the hustle stats are still there, despite observations that LeBron is resting more on defense and in general put it in cruise-control more often during the regular season.
LeBron's 3PT% over his career has largely been a function of how effective his teammates have been at getting him open threes.  His best 3PT% seasons were his last three seasons in MIA, when he played in an offense that emphasized spacing and had players who could draw enough attention for LeBron to get the ball back later in the possession for an open shot.  
If you look at LeBron's % of FGA by distance, in general this season he took more shots closer to the basket: fewer threes, fewer long twos, more shots in the pile.  Like you said, usually when a wing is in decline he's taking more long twos and threes and stops penetrating.  That's not what we've seen with LeBron.  
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LeBron's jumper has always been a weakness, but he took it to a new level this year.  You can tell just by watching his body language when he shoots that he doesn't expect it to go in.  If there were such a stat as 'bad misses' then there would be a clear change year-over-year.  Lots of big clanks, not many soft roll-out's.  This is not just a playoff thing, it's been going on all year.

 
No. 16 said:
Bruce has to be fishing right or does he really not like the Dubs?
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In general I empathize with the hardcore GSW fanbase.  Tons of passionate and knowledgeable fans that have suffered through a lot of bad teams and bad decisions.  Maybe its the bandwagon fans drowning out the sound of the core, but its disappointing seeing GSW fans on the precipice of becoming insufferable in the Yankees/Red Sox/Patriots fans kind of way.

Been a big fan of Kerr for 30 years.  When an undersized PG who can't run or jump sees a guy like Kerr out there killing it for U of Arizona, it gives him hope.  Fair to say he reached his ceiling as a player, was an entertaining and thoughtful commentator, got a bad rap as a GM when it was the owner's fault, and so far as a coach he's producing at savant HOF level.  (If you want some good deep background on Kerr the college kid, check out "A Season Inside" by John Feinstein.  Feinstein tracks several college basketball players, coaches, and recruits across the country in detail over one season, including Kerr.  You see the roots of the bright, funny guy he is now.)

Green and Klay strike me as fugazi tough guys who are comfortable strutting around and woofing when the cameras are on and the stakes are too high for anyone to do anything, but neither of them are guys you could trust in a real fight.  Love watching Klay shoot the rock and fascinating how Green has emerged as this top-level two-way threat showing skill he didn't demonstrate in college or high school, but both guys seem to be difficult to root for over a long stretch of time.

Curry deserved unanimous MVP and I am genuinely curious if he's an anomaly or an innovator.  Riveting to see if Curry turns out to be the way PGs should have been playing since the three-point line was first drawn, or if he's a unique skill set unable for others to emulate.  Irked that he throws himself to the ground so often, but if it didn't draw whistles he wouldn't do it.  So easy to dismiss that as "don't hate the player; hate the game" but it does surrender some high ground if we're gonna start calling players #####es.  Curry dangling his mouthpiece out after whistles bugs me in the same way LeBron chewing on his nails bugs you: an annoying, but ultimately harmless, idiosyncrasy.  

Like seeing Barnes succeed as a pro because I always thought he got a bad rap over expectations as a college player.  He's a great fit for that roster.  

Dig seeing Iguodala play well because the trade GSW made for him didn't make sense in a vacuum but totally made sense for the team ready to make a big move.  Sam Hinkie is rolling over in the unemployment line over trading three players and four picks for Iguodala, but he brought a ton of value himself, and can't discount the effect he had on Thompson and Barnes's development.      

 
Joe T said:
Hey Archimedes, if you want to check if someone is in decline you wouldn't compare stats versus career averages, but versus prior 3 or 4 years or versus peak (you decide).  Careers typically work in an arc.  Hope this helps with your analysis.
Click to expand...
Previous 4 seasons: 26.5 PPG, 7.2RPG, 6.8apg

This season: 25.3, 7.4, 6.8

Now what do I do?

 
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