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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Capella
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Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Of all the reasons GSW is up 2-0 in this series, the coaching is so, so low on the list it doesn't even deserve to be mentioned. There isn't a rational reason for a person with even elementary knowledge about the game to think the coaching matchup has made a difference here. What would be series be right now if it was Kerr v Blatt on the benches? Or Luke Walton v Blatt? Or if Kerr was coaching CLE and Lue was coaching GSW? Maybe the difference here isn't coaching; maybe one team is going to have a credible argument for the greatest professional team in the history of the entire sport, and the other is a borderline playoff team and mediocre front office propped up by a top 10 all-time player happening to grow up less than an hour away from Cleveland. If Lue is the reason CLE is down 2-0, then how in the ####### #### did GSW go 73-9?
So if the criticism isn't for a rational reason, then it's for an irrational reason. This thread is full of irrational actors making irrational decisions for irrational reasons. If you want to say dumb stuff to get a reaction, then fine. Just don't ##### and moan when others call you out for saying dumb stuff. Be happy they are recognizing what you're doing.
The injuries to Love and Irving in the postseason last year set the CLE franchise back at least a full year, maybe more. They couldn't move Irving or Love last summer because they didn't know yet what this core of players could do in a Finals. They couldn't get rid of Blatt even though they knew he wasn't their guy because the team went too far in the playoffs without Love. So they were stuck. The terrible move was getting rid of Blatt midseason. If he's not your guy, dump him before the season starts. If you want to see what the LeBron/Irving/Love trio can do, stick with Blatt for the full season, let it play out, then make moves accordingly in July and August. But don't turn it over midseason to a rookie coach who didn't even want the job.
BTW, Lue started this postseason 10-0. He's doing just fine. In fact, he's an asset if everything said about the CLE roster in this thread is true. He was sent to a gun battle with one AK-47 and a bunch of spoons.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Oh, come on!
Irving is at least a pocket knife, Love is like a rock and Thompson like a set of brass knuckles. And Delly is kind of like one of those green plastic visors guys used to wear playing poker in the 80's, kind of horrifying to look at, but you still like it for some reason.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
And great example for teams to look at this summer when bidding on the likes of Biyombo/Ezeli etc...
Just some ridiculous #s being thrown around for these guys.said it previously but I think with bigs this offseason the most patient teams will benefit the most
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PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
It's amazing to me how much of the analysis I'm hearing is focused on the Cavs defense. They scored 77 points.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I'm usually a fan of Bruce's posts, but throwing out the 'racist' accusation and then not backing it up is disappointing.
sports_fan
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
I might be wrong about that. Might be recency bias. But an irrational explanation for the behavior, whatever it is, is certainly better than any rational one being offered. The truly hot take would be to accuse everyone here of being rational and thoughtful.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
When GSW plays, the focus is almost always on what's happening with GSW has the ball and what their opponent is doing to try to stop them. It happens. That's the side of the court that's pretty.
IMO the big thing Kerr learned as PHX GM from having D'Antoni as a coach was that style of offense can win a title if you can figure out an equally unconventional way to get that type of personnel to play defense. So they go out and get all these guys who can shoot, move the ball, and move without the ball in a quasi-positionless offensive system. And the defense they install focuses on locking down shooters, making it tough to move the ball around, and utilizing these quasi-positionless offensive guys to play quasi-positionless defense. They don't need to be good at all aspects of defense, but they need to be good at preventing the scoring barrages their offense can generate.
But that's not as fun to talk about, nor as easy.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I never said all of that.
The coaches James has had over the course of his career have won a grand total of 2 playoff series EVER without him. Think about that. It's funny that when you look at the best 10 players or so ever, every single one of them had at least one coach most would say is really good (and most have a great one). Meanwhile, the best James has ever had was Eric Spoelstra, who is a solid coach, but nothing special.
I just chuckle at the reaction to these losses, as if it is somehow a detriment to James' legacy that he and a team that would be lucky to win 40 games without him, is getting drilled by a team that is having the best single season ever.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Coaches like to win.
Having a superstar in the NBA greatly increases your chances of winning a lot of games.
James wins a #### load of games every year.
This isn't brain surgery.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
All true. But you also have to keep in mind that that the D was so lousy the game was over in the middle of the 3rd. Love was out, James sat the whole 4th and Irving sat most of the 4th. That's going to negatively impact your final score. That said, your point is taken - they seem to have real problems on offense once they get past the 1st quarter. The Warrior D is really shrinking the available passing lanes and the Cavs haven't adjusted to that yet. I don't know if they can. They could get crazy and try to run some offense through the post, that would at least throw a momentary curve at the Warriors, maybe create some more room on the perimeter.
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No. 16
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
For the sake of argument, let's say Cleveland loses in 5. Split at home, and are then vanquished in Oakland.
If you're Cleveland's GM, and you're free from any *ahem* meddling, be it from above or *ahem* "below", what are the realistic moves that you try and pursue this offseason? Or do you just largely stand pat? Show your work.
If you're Cleveland's GM, and you're free from any *ahem* meddling, be it from above or *ahem* "below", what are the realistic moves that you try and pursue this offseason? Or do you just largely stand pat? Show your work.
Blatt has a long history of being a very successful coach, took the Cavaliers to the finals in his first season, won two finals games with a bunch of scrubs, led them to a 31-11 record this year and then was fired mid-season because James didn't want him there anymore.
James is a great player but he is a diva who needs to shut up and play basketball.
No. 16
Footballguy
They have LBJ, Love, and Kyrie....three players who have of lead their team in scoring and who have had offenses built around them in the past. This team got to the Finals while hitting 3s at a record pace (playing in the East had a lot to do with it). That's why all the media analysis regarding the Cavs is on defense. Plus the "offensive coordinator" is also the GM so tough luck getting the Cavs to change their offensive game plan.
I agree the offense is the problem (defense too). The Cavs are playing hero ball, but LBJs handpicked teammates are not as good Westbrook/Durant. The Cav's need an offensive system like GSW, SAS, POR, DAL, ATL, BOS, MIA, and the like that can manufacture points against Western Conference defenses.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I agree that James needs to shut and play, but let's be serious about Blatt. You or I could have coached them to that many wins last year, with James on that team.
dschuler
Footballguy
No way. I thought Blatt did a great job, and out coached Kerr in the finals with way less talent. Love and Irving were both out, and their roster was worse last year. And they still won two games. His loss is apparent now as they don't run an offense. They have one player dribble and four others watch. No way this series gets past five games. And I really don't see Irving and James winning a title together. They don't work well together on the floor at all for being the two best players on the roster. Irving reminds me of a poor mans Westbrook from a couple years ago. Westbrook is much more complete now IMO.
Capella
Footballguy
My main problem is the lack of creativity on offense. That was supposed to be a Blatt speciality, it sounds like all the players basically told him to get ####ed and now we're here with Lue. Hard to say the offense is his fault considering he's only had 40 games.
Whatever the case, however, it's a piss shame that an offense with two superior passers and offensive freaks in Love and Lebron can't figure things out. How can they not run a devastating pick and roll with those two? How is Love not the high man on the pick and roll making devastating back door passes to a cutting Kyrie? It's absurd.
I do think a lot of the Lebron hate (not necessarily here) but internet wide has a twinge of racism. I don't see a lot of racists in this place outside of the trump thread however.
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fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Irving reminds me of Carmelo Anthony; he just wants to chuck it all day and is not a fan of any system that doesn't allow him to do it.
dschuler
Footballguy
People that think criticizing Lebron because they are racists are complete idiots considering racists wouldn't be NBA fans to begin with. Is it racist to think one black player isn't as good as another black player? I don't get the logic.
tommyboy
Footballguy
i see a demoralized Cavs team that knows it can't stop GS. Maybe the home crowd will change their energy level enough for them to take one game in this series. who knows, maybe they come back 2-2 and we have a legit series again. Nothing surprises me in the NBA. Just from what i've observed in 2 games, it looks like the main difference in the two teams is GS is locking them down on defense, while the cavs are leaving gaping holes on defense.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Where is the crowd of people that said if the Cavs had Kyrie and Love last year they would have swept the Warriors?
dschuler
Footballguy
I agree. The most frustrating thing about both of them is they are super talented but I don't know if they give two ####s. I would put Harden in their too because he basically saves his energy on defense.
Insein
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Saying LeBron is more Pippen than Jordan = stupid even by Hot Sports Take standards, unlikely to be racist, possibly too much of an Easter Island fanboy
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird has more titles = imperfect understanding of where titles come from, possibly racist, more likely a grumpy old man
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird played the game the right way based on the fundamentals = imperfect understanding of where greatness comes from, probably saw Hoosiers too many times, suspiciously racist
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird has more titles = imperfect understanding of where titles come from, possibly racist, more likely a grumpy old man
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird played the game the right way based on the fundamentals = imperfect understanding of where greatness comes from, probably saw Hoosiers too many times, suspiciously racist
Capella
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
This I agree with.
where does Lebron would drag the Warriors down and they wouldn't be as good with him fall?
Capella
Footballguy
Abraham
Footballguy
I don't recall anyone saying it would be a sweep, but many people (Myself included) thought they may well have won the series. But this is a different and better warriors team.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Excellent question. Probably lots of crossover with the people saying GSW was too good to waste their money on Kevin Durant.
Ignorant for sure. Doubtful it's racist. Unless they are clamoring to use the roster spot on Mason Plumlee.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Interesting to me that LeBron, who has always seemed ascendant in his game, is now clearly holding onto as much as he can. Seems clear to me his summit is in the rearview. This caught me by surprise. I wonder how long now is his horizon.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I assuming James is staying, and by one site I looked at the cap is going to be roughly 92 million. In 2015 the cap was 70 million and the Cavs spent just shy of 106 million. This is crazy complicated so please just assume sign and trades if the bird rights and other stuff is wrong. So for 2016 I am going to keep the Cavs roughly 35 million over the cap and they already have 103 million in money going out. So just assuming 25 million to play with.
Offer the max to Durant, 25 million, this depends on Lebron or Durant agreeing to play the 4. After Durant signs trade Kevin Love for draft picks, the Celtics were interested last year and I am sure you could get them to bite or someone. So add 26 million with Durant and a bump for Lerbon since he will want to be the highest paid player and minus 21.5 million for Love. So roughly 21 million left. Sign Etwaun Moore I am guessing about 6 million to get this done, he would be a great combo guard and floor spacer, sign Ian Mahimi, guessing it would take about 11 million a year to get him and I would start him over Thompson, and sign Darrell Arthur for defense and an energy guy off the bench. This is the dream scenario and none of these bench players can get their own shots, but with Kyrie, Durant and James I would assume one of them would be on the court at all times.
The more realistic scenario is take that 25 million and go get Jeremy Lin, Noah, and Kent Bazemore. Buyout or hope Smith opps out and make another run at it.
Please don't kill me if I did this is wrong, I don't know the cap at all and I was bored and thought this would be fun and by time I realized it sucked I was almost done.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
This is a tough one. I disagreed with just about every draft pick CLE made post-Decision, and the one I like the most they traded away before playing one game with them.
Very difficult to come up with "realistic" trade scenarios on Love and Irving since there's so much disagreement on their value as players and market value as trading chips.
Think it would be awesome shtick to bring in Dwayne Wade to play SG.
Might overpay a little for Festus Ezeli just to bust up the champs a little.
I'll work on this a bit more later.
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