2015 Rookie RB Class, Who's the BEST? (1 Viewer)

[Xue]

Is your skin so thin that you need to bump multiple old threads just to call someone out because of a perceived slight?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Is your skin so thin that you need to call me a contrarian when I have an opinion that you disagree with strongly? Is your skin so thin that you bothered to make this post?

Why don't you venture into the Brian Quick thread. How about bump the Beckhkam/Lee posts. How about the Maxx Williams ones.

Time Kibitzer wants to troll me, fine. I'll put him on the spot. He can tuck his tail and crawl back into his delusional world where Javorius Allen and Corey Clement is on the level of Melvin Gordon.

 

[EBF]

Is your skin so thin that you need to bump multiple old threads just to call someone out because of a perceived slight?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Is your skin so thin that you need to call me a contrarian when I have an opinion that you disagree with strongly? Is your skin so thin that you bothered to make this post?

Why don't you venture into the Brian Quick thread. How about bump the Beckhkam/Lee posts. How about the Maxx Williams ones.

Time Kibitzer wants to troll me, fine. I'll put him on the spot. He can tuck his tail and crawl back into his delusional world where Javorius Allen and Corey Clement is on the level of Melvin Gordon.

He made a fairly innocuous comment and you responded by bumping a couple of old threads that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. It just makes you look small and petty. When I see the devy threads bumped, I hope for actual content, not somebody trying to posterize somebody else because they got their panties in a twist. Anyone who puts his opinion out there is going to have a healthy amount of hits and misses. I think we all know this.

I'm not going to get into an "I was right about this and you were wrong about that" war with you, but suffice to say you've had plenty of horrible calls mixed in with whatever good ones you might have made. If Time Kibitzer wants to stoop down to your level then I'm sure he'll find plenty of juicy quotes he can dig up, but I suspect he doesn't care enough about perceived insults to his reputation on an Internet message board to get into a lengthy pissing match over it.

I think people who read the devy threads appreciate your posts when they contain actual analysis, but at times you've got the interpersonal skills and emotional maturity of a 10 year old. Someone made one relatively harmless comment and you're digging up his old posts about something totally unrelated. What are you really accomplishing here? Maybe you think you're "getting him back," but really you're just making yourself look worse than if you had just let it slide.

 

[Xue]

Is your skin so thin that you need to bump multiple old threads just to call someone out because of a perceived slight?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Is your skin so thin that you need to call me a contrarian when I have an opinion that you disagree with strongly? Is your skin so thin that you bothered to make this post?

Why don't you venture into the Brian Quick thread. How about bump the Beckhkam/Lee posts. How about the Maxx Williams ones.

Time Kibitzer wants to troll me, fine. I'll put him on the spot. He can tuck his tail and crawl back into his delusional world where Javorius Allen and Corey Clement is on the level of Melvin Gordon.

He made a fairly innocuous comment and you responded by bumping a couple of old threads that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. It just makes you look small and petty. When I see the devy threads bumped, I hope for actual content, not somebody trying to posterize somebody else because they got their panties in a twist. Anyone who puts his opinion out there is going to have a healthy amount of hits and misses. I think we all know this.

I'm not going to get into an "I was right about this and you were wrong about that" war with you, but suffice to say you've had plenty of horrible calls mixed in with whatever good ones you might have made. If Time Kibitzer wants to stoop down to your level then I'm sure he'll find plenty of juicy quotes he can dig up, but I suspect he doesn't care enough about perceived insults to his reputation on an Internet message board to get into a lengthy pissing match over it.

I think people who read the devy threads appreciate your posts when they contain actual analysis, but at times you've got the interpersonal skills and emotional maturity of a 10 year old. Someone made one relatively harmless comment and you're digging up his old posts about something totally unrelated. What are you really accomplishing here? Maybe you think you're "getting him back," but really you're just making yourself look worse than if you had just let it slide.

He cared enough to take a weak shot at me. I guess I have another hater on here.

 

[tdmills]

Is your skin so thin that you need to bump multiple old threads just to call someone out because of a perceived slight?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Is your skin so thin that you need to call me a contrarian when I have an opinion that you disagree with strongly? Is your skin so thin that you bothered to make this post?

Why don't you venture into the Brian Quick thread. How about bump the Beckhkam/Lee posts. How about the Maxx Williams ones.

Time Kibitzer wants to troll me, fine. I'll put him on the spot. He can tuck his tail and crawl back into his delusional world where Javorius Allen and Corey Clement is on the level of Melvin Gordon.

He made a fairly innocuous comment and you responded by bumping a couple of old threads that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. It just makes you look small and petty. When I see the devy threads bumped, I hope for actual content, not somebody trying to posterize somebody else because they got their panties in a twist. Anyone who puts his opinion out there is going to have a healthy amount of hits and misses. I think we all know this.

I'm not going to get into an "I was right about this and you were wrong about that" war with you, but suffice to say you've had plenty of horrible calls mixed in with whatever good ones you might have made. If Time Kibitzer wants to stoop down to your level then I'm sure he'll find plenty of juicy quotes he can dig up, but I suspect he doesn't care enough about perceived insults to his reputation on an Internet message board to get into a lengthy pissing match over it.

I think people who read the devy threads appreciate your posts when they contain actual analysis, but at times you've got the interpersonal skills and emotional maturity of a 10 year old. Someone made one relatively harmless comment and you're digging up his old posts about something totally unrelated. What are you really accomplishing here? Maybe you think you're "getting him back," but really you're just making yourself look worse than if you had just let it slide.

Really, you're going to try and call someone out for how they post/view themselves/treat others? This wasnt your fight, yet you felt the need to police the sp...and contradict xue by doing the same thing to him(calling someone out), except it is in the dissertation format (as always) because nobody likes some ebf more than ebf. Check your bio where you call yourself "renoun with college prospects" or your description in articles where it says "expert"...should we check your calls? Or as you said "you've made plenty if horrible calls mixed in with whatever good ones you might have made." Humorous that the one person that cares about their ego calls out someone for their ego.

Weren't you irritated to see a thread bumped and no new information? Yet you provided no new information? Contradiction AGAIN

Let's actually talk football:

Thomas Tyner may be the most overrated devy prospect. Season high is 64 rushing yards, yet has had 10 or more carries in 4 of 5 games. He lacks balance, slows down a lot to change direction, and isn't good at making people miss. However, those arent measurable so they often get ignored. He's a big/fast guy, but he doesn't have the necessary rb skills to be a FF force.

 

[Sabertooth]

Get a room

 

[SayWhat?]

Yep, enough is enough. I greatly appreciate the insight that a lot of you guys provide as it relates to college prospects as I simply don't have the time available to devote to football all weekend long. But this **** wagging that you guys continue to do is beyond ridiculous. Nobody gives a crap to rehash, over and over and over and over, whom was first to point out a prospect, whether someone was right/wrong about a call, or who's **** is largest.

I recognize that my post isn't adding to this thread, but it's about time that you guys quit worrying about other posters in here and trying to look better than each other. Everyone in their own right has valuable contributions in here, but put your ego away for a change and quit trying to one up each other. Just makes you look petty and childish.

 

[Xue]

Let's actually talk football:

Thomas Tyner may be the most overrated devy prospect. Season high is 64 rushing yards, yet has had 10 or more carries in 4 of 5 games. He lacks balance, slows down a lot to change direction, and isn't good at making people miss. However, those arent measurable so they often get ignored. He's a big/fast guy, but he doesn't have the necessary rb skills to be a FF force.

Definitely overrated. For someone who supposedly runs a 4.3, he should be breaking a lot more long runs in that wide open offense. Also, he's a more straightline runner than Melvin Gordon. Gordon probably won't run a 4.3, but looks a lot faster on the field.

Daniel Lasco looks to be the same player as Tyner: 11:12 here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x271xp9_co-ca-2q_school

I'm starting to warm to Royce Freeman, though. Much more physical runner: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11631747

 

[jurb26]

I don't see a great deal of Oregon but this is the second year that when I have I've come away more impressed with Marahall than Tyner. Granted it's limited action but he seems to have better instincts for the position when I've watched them. Tyner just never stands out.

 

[BigTex]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

 

[jurb26]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

I could easily see Abdullah over Davis, at least. I've got him #3 right now behind Gurley and Gordon.

 

[BigTex]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

Looking at their games from this year, I'd strongly consider Ameer over both. Especially considering who they've played so far. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out but the last four teams he's played against are horrible and he had to carry the ball 32 times to get 181 yards against South Florida. The only team that he's run against that I would consider respectable is LSU and they are not what they used to be. Over 500 yds against Bowling Green and North Western! LOL!! I'm not impressed.

 

[BigTex]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

I could easily see Abdullah over Davis, at least. I've got him #3 right now behind Gurley and Gordon.

If I was to draft today I'd would consider him over Gordon.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

Looking at their games from this year, I'd strongly consider Ameer over both. Especially considering who they've played so far. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out but the last four teams he's played against are horrible and he had to carry the ball 32 times to get 181 yards against South Florida. The only team that he's run against that I would consider respectable is LSU and they are not what they used to be. Over 500 yds against Bowling Green and North Western! LOL!! I'm not impressed.

Who exactly has Abdullah run against? I mean, I guess he got carries against Michigan State. I'm not convinced he actually ran anywhere though.

 

[BigTex]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

Looking at their games from this year, I'd strongly consider Ameer over both. Especially considering who they've played so far. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out but the last four teams he's played against are horrible and he had to carry the ball 32 times to get 181 yards against South Florida. The only team that he's run against that I would consider respectable is LSU and they are not what they used to be. Over 500 yds against Bowling Green and North Western! LOL!! I'm not impressed.

Who exactly has Abdullah run against? I mean, I guess he got carries against Michigan State. I'm not convinced he actually ran anywhere though.

He struggle against #8 Michigan St, good game against the U, Illinois and Fresno St. He's played tougher teams and I don't think it's close. Yet he still leads the NCAA in rushing.

 

[BigTex]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

 

[jurb26]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

 

[BigTex]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

At minimum I'll give Abdullah Miami, Michigan St and Illinois.

Gordon played Bowling Green, IIRC two other teams have set or broken school or NCAA records against them.

 

[jurb26]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

At minimum I'll give Abdullah Miami, Michigan St and Illinois.Gordon played Bowling Green, IIRC two other teams have set or broken school or NCAA records against them.

I love Miami but they suck. I wouldn't give them anything. Their bad. Illinois is pretty bad as well.Looking over the numbers Mia ranks 72 in the country vs rushing. Illinois ranks 122. Illinois is pretty much as bad as it gets.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

At minimum I'll give Abdullah Miami, Michigan St and Illinois.

Gordon played Bowling Green, IIRC two other teams have set or broken school or NCAA records against them.

Abdullah had good games against Miami, Illinois, and Fla Atlantic. Gordon had good games against LSU, Northwestern, Bowling Green, and South Florida. Here are each of their respective ranks against the run.

Miami - 72

Illinois - 119

Florida Atlantic - 106

LSU - 89

Northwestern - 61

Bowling Green - 113

South Florida - 80

So two of Abdullah's three good games came against teams that rank about the same against the run as that Bowling Green team that you want to throw out as so bad it shouldn't even count.

 

[BigTex]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

At minimum I'll give Abdullah Miami, Michigan St and Illinois.Gordon played Bowling Green, IIRC two other teams have set or broken school or NCAA records against them.

I love Miami but they suck. I wouldn't give them anything. Their bad. Illinois is pretty bad as well.

I haven't really dug into the numbers yet but I will at some point. I just believe Ameer has played against better competition. When I watched Gordon this past week it was obvious that Wisconsin is force feeding him the ball...............for whatever reason yet they still lost. We will see how this pans out. Gordon still maybe drafted higher than Ameer in the NFL draft but at this point in time I don't think Gordon is the clear cut favorite.

Tex

 

[BigTex]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

At minimum I'll give Abdullah Miami, Michigan St and Illinois.

Gordon played Bowling Green, IIRC two other teams have set or broken school or NCAA records against them.

Abdullah had good games against Miami, Illinois, and Fla Atlantic. Gordon had good games against LSU, Northwestern, Bowling Green, and South Florida. Here are each of their respective ranks against the run.

Miami - 72

Illinois - 119

Florida Atlantic - 106

LSU - 89

Northwestern - 61

Bowling Green - 113

South Florida - 80

So two of Abdullah's three good games came against teams that rank about the same against the run as that Bowling Green team that you want to throw out as so bad it shouldn't even count.

Comments like this are unnecessary and I'm not going to get in a mud slinging match because that's normally what happens when someone throws out a comment like this. Bowling Green gives out more records than any team in the NCAA. I don't have time to look them up now but other teams have broken records against them and I believe they were passing records so if a team can throw all day on another team then wouldn't their run D but a little flawed even though they are horrible too?

 

[BigTex]

How the teams are against the pass can go a long way as well that's what I meant by my last comment which means Bowling Green would be actually WORSE then the two teams you mentioned. Agree?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

At minimum I'll give Abdullah Miami, Michigan St and Illinois.

Gordon played Bowling Green, IIRC two other teams have set or broken school or NCAA records against them.

Abdullah had good games against Miami, Illinois, and Fla Atlantic. Gordon had good games against LSU, Northwestern, Bowling Green, and South Florida. Here are each of their respective ranks against the run.

Miami - 72

Illinois - 119

Florida Atlantic - 106

LSU - 89

Northwestern - 61

Bowling Green - 113

South Florida - 80

So two of Abdullah's three good games came against teams that rank about the same against the run as that Bowling Green team that you want to throw out as so bad it shouldn't even count.

Comments like this are unnecessary and I'm not going to get in a mud slinging match because that's normally what happens when someone throws out a comment like this. Bowling Green gives out more records than any team in the NCAA. I don't have time to look them up now but other teams have broken records against them and I believe they were passing records so if a team can throw all day on another team then wouldn't their run D but a little flawed even though they are horrible too?

What was mudslinging? I was just pointing out how bad Illinois and Florida Atlantic are against the run. With those two and Bowling Green we're talking about literally three of the worst teams against the country here. You can't really penalize Gordon for racking up big numbers against poor competition when the comparison is Abdullah, who's racked up his numbers against, at best, just as weak of competition if not worse.

 

[BigTex]

LOL:

BOWLING GREEN, Ky. (AP) Brandon Doughty threw for a school-record 569 yards and six touchdowns to help Western Kentucky beat Bowling Green State 59-31 on Friday night in the head coaching debuts of Jeff Brohm and Dino Babers.

Brohm's Hilltoppers had a school-record 702 total yards against the defending MAC champions.

 

[BigTex]

What division does Bowling Green play in? Are you saying their division is just as good as the division that Nebraska has played against?

 

[BigTex]

Florida Atlantic ok, but not Illinois

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Illinois gave up 203 yards rushing to Youngstown State, so I'm not sure I'd rush to exclude them.

Regardless, I think we can safely say that both guys have torn it up against mostly weak competition so we can't really say that's an advantage for either of them.

 

[Xue]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

Looking at their games from this year, I'd strongly consider Ameer over both. Especially considering who they've played so far. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out but the last four teams he's played against are horrible and he had to carry the ball 32 times to get 181 yards against South Florida. The only team that he's run against that I would consider respectable is LSU and they are not what they used to be. Over 500 yds against Bowling Green and North Western! LOL!! I'm not impressed.

This is just boxscore scouting. Gordon didn't have much running room vs USF and Western Illinois. The term 'compteition" is overstated and misleading. People keep saying "Gordon looks great when he has huge holes to run through". That's such a cop out. You can say that for every RB.

Oh, Northwestern actually has a pretty good Defense. They kept Cal and Penn State in check. Held them to 2.5 and 2.7 YPC, respectively.

How did Abdullah do vs McNeese State?

Who did Adrian Peterson play in college?

 

[Xue]

Illinois is pretty bad as a team overall. Even if Gordon were to run for 80 yards at 4.0 YPC, it wouldn't and shouldn't change anyone's mind as to what your evaluation of him is. Right now, we should have a very good idea of what Gordon and Abdullah are. If you're going to have a dramatic shift in opinion of the two, then you're way too reactionary.

 

[BigTex]

I still believe that Gurley is #1 at this point but #2 is not so clear cut anymore. There are some guys how are really surprising.

Who are you conflicted at for #2?

I can see a case for Ameer or Coleman.

Over Gordon and Davis???

Looking at their games from this year, I'd strongly consider Ameer over both. Especially considering who they've played so far. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out but the last four teams he's played against are horrible and he had to carry the ball 32 times to get 181 yards against South Florida. The only team that he's run against that I would consider respectable is LSU and they are not what they used to be. Over 500 yds against Bowling Green and North Western! LOL!! I'm not impressed.

This is just boxscore scouting. Gordon didn't have much running room vs USF and Western Illinois. The term 'compteition" is overstated and misleading. People keep saying "Gordon looks great when he has huge holes to run through". That's such a cop out. You can say that for every RB.

Oh, Northwestern actually has a pretty good Defense. They kept Cal and Penn State in check. Held them to 2.5 and 2.7 YPC, respectively.

How did Abdullah do vs McNeese State?

Who did Adrian Peterson play in college?

No, I actually watch the games of top players.....LOL "boxscore scouting" I'll go back to my corner. I'll still take Ameer over Gordon today. We'll see how the landscape looks in 3 or 4 weeks. I watched Coleman rip Bowling Green and no one said a word.............why is that? I like Coleman and Gordon but they've played cream puff teams. There's only one running back in the country that has looked the part no matter who he's played and he's played against some good competition and that's Gurley.

 

[BigTex]

Illinois is pretty bad as a team overall. Even if Gordon were to run for 80 yards at 4.0 YPC, it wouldn't and shouldn't change anyone's mind as to what your evaluation of him is. Right now, we should have a very good idea of what Gordon and Abdullah are. If you're going to have a dramatic shift in opinion of the two, then you're way too reactionary.

You make a lot of assumptions.

 

[Xue]

Illinois gave up 203 yards rushing to Youngstown State, so I'm not sure I'd rush to exclude them.

Regardless, I think we can safely say that both guys have torn it up against mostly weak competition so we can't really say that's an advantage for either of them.

We can also say that both guys have 9 other guys on the field helping them out. If the RB is "tearing up" the competition, so are the blockers.

If we're going to "boxscore scout" Melvin Gordon, isn't easier to just compare him to his teammate Corey Clement since they both played against the same teams and are running behind the same O-line? Gordon's season YPC: 8.3, Clement: 5.0.

 

[meatwad1]

Guys...I am long time connoisseur of Wisconsin football. I know that really gives me zero credibility, but I will say I think I have a pretty good feel for players that will star in the NFL from Wisconsin and Gordon is pretty much exhibit 1A. This dude is Michael Bennett on steroids. Great instincts to go along with that explosive ability. I am pretty sure that when all is said and done he will be a first round pick and should be 1.1 in the next rookie drafts.

 

[BigTex]

Illinois gave up 203 yards rushing to Youngstown State, so I'm not sure I'd rush to exclude them.

Regardless, I think we can safely say that both guys have torn it up against mostly weak competition so we can't really say that's an advantage for either of them.

Yes sir, we agree.

 

[BigTex]

Guys...I am long time connoisseur of Wisconsin football. I know that really gives me zero credibility, but I will say I think I have a pretty good feel for players that will star in the NFL from Wisconsin and Gordon is pretty much exhibit 1A. This dude is Michael Bennett on steroids. Great instincts to go along with that explosive ability. I am pretty sure that when all is said and done he will be a first round pick and should be 1.1 in the next rookie drafts.

I don't question this not one bit. He may even go before Gurley if someone like him enough. I was ask a question and I answered it and as of today I have not changed my mind. I didn't say I was right, never claimed to be king of scouting like some do on these boards nowadays. I'm just saying as of right now I could take Ameer as my number 2 back and not give it a second thought.

I honestly believe we could see 3 backs taken in the 1st round and 2 or 3 more in the second round.

 

[Xue]

Illinois is pretty bad as a team overall. Even if Gordon were to run for 80 yards at 4.0 YPC, it wouldn't and shouldn't change anyone's mind as to what your evaluation of him is. Right now, we should have a very good idea of what Gordon and Abdullah are. If you're going to have a dramatic shift in opinion of the two, then you're way too reactionary.

You make a lot of assumptions.

You're trying too hard to oversimplify scouting the numbers.

What happens if Ameer Abdullah does poorly against top competition? Is it really going to change your mind on him? I'd bet you've already made up your mind on him.

 

[BigTex]

Illinois is pretty bad as a team overall. Even if Gordon were to run for 80 yards at 4.0 YPC, it wouldn't and shouldn't change anyone's mind as to what your evaluation of him is. Right now, we should have a very good idea of what Gordon and Abdullah are. If you're going to have a dramatic shift in opinion of the two, then you're way too reactionary.

You make a lot of assumptions.

You're trying too hard to oversimplify scouting the numbers.

What happens if Ameer Abdullah does poorly against top competition? Is it really going to change your mind on him? I'd bet you've already made up your mind on him.

LOL, why would you bet that?

 

[Xue]

Illinois is pretty bad as a team overall. Even if Gordon were to run for 80 yards at 4.0 YPC, it wouldn't and shouldn't change anyone's mind as to what your evaluation of him is. Right now, we should have a very good idea of what Gordon and Abdullah are. If you're going to have a dramatic shift in opinion of the two, then you're way too reactionary.

You make a lot of assumptions.

You're trying too hard to oversimplify scouting the numbers.

What happens if Ameer Abdullah does poorly against top competition? Is it really going to change your mind on him? I'd bet you've already made up your mind on him.

LOL, why would you bet that?

Because I'd win.

So what's the answer? Can you also reply to my post on Northwestern.

 

[Xue]

For the record, I'm not saying Gordon is not good. He's just getting a lot of hype yet IMHO it's not deserved considering the competition he's played so far this year.

He's getting hype but so is Abdulah. Neither has really played anyone outside of 1 game. Gordon has a 3 down skill set where as Abdulah doesn't IMO.

I think Abdullah can be a 3-down type in the mold of Andre Ellington.

 

[EBF]

I don't see a great deal of Oregon but this is the second year that when I have I've come away more impressed with Marahall than Tyner. Granted it's limited action but he seems to have better instincts for the position when I've watched them. Tyner just never stands out.

Marshall has made the most "wow" plays of the three Oregon backs this season. I don't know if I like him as an NFL starter, but he has the quickest feet and the best short-area burst compared with Freeman and Tyner. Tyner is fine as a one cut back and I think he looks better this year than last season despite what the stats say, but I've almost never seen him make anybody miss in the second level in college. It's a big problem for him. He has not shown the ability to sink his hips and make hard lateral cuts at speed. Instead he sort of shuffles his feet and tries to run around people. You can see it on the 22 yard run he had from their game on Saturday. I don't think he has quite lived up to the potential that he seemed to have out of high school.

On the other hand, Oregon's running game is down this season. This OL is not that great and I have my doubts about Helfrich as a coach. He may be a Larry Coker type who will lose the program's momentum once the previous regime's players are all gone. Add it all up and Oregon isn't running the ball like they have in recent seasons. There's nobody putting up video game stats ala Barner and James. You see the same thing with Freeman. He tore up a few teams early in the season in the second half of games when the defenses were tired, but now that he has been used as the starter he has also struggled somewhat, with 3.8 and 4.5 YPC in the last two games on heavy volume. I have not seen him make a single "wow" run this season. He is decisive and big, but everything he got early in the year was blocked for him. Behind a line that can't block anybody, Marshall is the only one who has shown the ability to pull a rabbit out of his hat and make something out of nothing, but they're using him mainly as a receiving weapon.

 

[BigTex]

Illinois is pretty bad as a team overall. Even if Gordon were to run for 80 yards at 4.0 YPC, it wouldn't and shouldn't change anyone's mind as to what your evaluation of him is. Right now, we should have a very good idea of what Gordon and Abdullah are. If you're going to have a dramatic shift in opinion of the two, then you're way too reactionary.

You make a lot of assumptions.

You're trying too hard to oversimplify scouting the numbers.

What happens if Ameer Abdullah does poorly against top competition? Is it really going to change your mind on him? I'd bet you've already made up your mind on him.

LOL, why would you bet that?

Because I'd win.

So what's the answer? Can you also reply to my post on Northwestern.

I've already answered it, more than once but you missed it. What about Northwestern??? I missed it.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GauOGG01fX8

Regardless, I don't think the talent level is close between Allen and Gordon. Gordon looks like he can put up a 40" vertical and 11' broad jump. I just don't see that with Allen, though I do like him very much. His Sophomore teammate is more talented, Justin Davis. The kid (literally) averaged 6.8 YPC while he was still 17 years old last season.

As for Byron Marshall, he's shown shiftiness when he needs it: http://youtu.be/0V6T2P2AIOc?t=1m24s

Time Kibitzer, is Javorius Allen still in the same tier as Melvin Gordon?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Imo, yes he still is. Gordon's looked a lot better this year than last imo, noticably quicker, running more NFL type runs up the middle and with more power; but he's still essentially non-existent in the passing game and a long strider. All in all I still think he's overrated and can't imagine he'll end up on any of my fantasy teams given his likely price tag, but I do like him a lot more than I did. Just think his game translating to fantasy points like everyone else seems to.

As for Javorius, he certainly hasn't done anything to make me think any less of him; he's still churning out his yards and is still a beast in the passing game.

As for me being a troll and taking a "weak shot" at you, I honestly don't know to what you're referencing.

 

[tdmills]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid:

Allen is still in the same tier as Gordon? At some point, you just need to look at your hand and fold. I don't think Allen is in the next tier of Davis/ ajayi. After that it's yeldon, duke, karlos, Coleman, abdullah(in no particular order) and Allen could climb into this tier.

 

[Xue]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GauOGG01fX8

Regardless, I don't think the talent level is close between Allen and Gordon. Gordon looks like he can put up a 40" vertical and 11' broad jump. I just don't see that with Allen, though I do like him very much. His Sophomore teammate is more talented, Justin Davis. The kid (literally) averaged 6.8 YPC while he was still 17 years old last season.

As for Byron Marshall, he's shown shiftiness when he needs it: http://youtu.be/0V6T2P2AIOc?t=1m24s

Time Kibitzer, is Javorius Allen still in the same tier as Melvin Gordon?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Imo, yes he still is. Gordon's looked a lot better this year than last imo, noticably quicker, running more NFL type runs up the middle and with more power; but he's still essentially non-existent in the passing game and a long strider. All in all I still think he's overrated and can't imagine he'll end up on any of my fantasy teams given his likely price tag, but I do like him a lot more than I did. Just think his game translating to fantasy points like everyone else seems to.

As for Javorius, he certainly hasn't done anything to make me think any less of him; he's still churning out his yards and is still a beast in the passing game.

As for me being a troll and taking a "weak shot" at you, I honestly don't know to what you're referencing.

How is being a long strider is a bad thing?

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid:

What can I say, I don't love a player simply because everyone else does, and I like some players even though everyone else doesn't I try to look at each player without preconceived notions based on the draftnik community. And to me Javorius just looks like the kind of player who could put up very nice fantasy numbers.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GauOGG01fX8

Regardless, I don't think the talent level is close between Allen and Gordon. Gordon looks like he can put up a 40" vertical and 11' broad jump. I just don't see that with Allen, though I do like him very much. His Sophomore teammate is more talented, Justin Davis. The kid (literally) averaged 6.8 YPC while he was still 17 years old last season.

As for Byron Marshall, he's shown shiftiness when he needs it: http://youtu.be/0V6T2P2AIOc?t=1m24s

Time Kibitzer, is Javorius Allen still in the same tier as Melvin Gordon?

Don't answer that because I already know the answer.

Imo, yes he still is. Gordon's looked a lot better this year than last imo, noticably quicker, running more NFL type runs up the middle and with more power; but he's still essentially non-existent in the passing game and a long strider. All in all I still think he's overrated and can't imagine he'll end up on any of my fantasy teams given his likely price tag, but I do like him a lot more than I did. Just think his game translating to fantasy points like everyone else seems to.

As for Javorius, he certainly hasn't done anything to make me think any less of him; he's still churning out his yards and is still a beast in the passing game.

As for me being a troll and taking a "weak shot" at you, I honestly don't know to what you're referencing.

How is being a long strider is a bad thing?

I certainly wouldn't say longer strides are a death sentence or anything, but shorter strides make it easier to act on quick twitch decisions for changing directions as there's less time between steps.

 

[Xue]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid:

Being a long strider doesn't automatically mean you don't have short area quickness. Instead of generalizing it, I'd prefer to look closely at each prospect. Gordon has plenty of short area quickness and changes direction very well here: http://gfycat.com/ShamefulUnfoldedGnat

Long strides may mean more time between steps, but it also means more ground covered with each step. And Gordon's long, powerful strides allow him to accelerate very well.

 

[jurb26]

I don't really get the Gordon long strides thing. He runs with short choppy steps when he needs to, in traffic. He opens up into longer strides in the open field. I'm not seeing it as any problem.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Just made a deal for a Top 3 pick in 2015. Any rankings list of the projected players, Seniors and Juniors, in 2015 anywhere?

Who is everyones #1 overall fantasy pick for next year at this point?

There are probably quite a few posts on that topic already.

You might find this link helpful:

http://ffoasis.com/devy/rankings/2015/BigBoard.php

IMO the devy community is a bit of an echo chamber and the groupthink within it leads to certain clusters of players becoming overrated while others become underrated, but the link will give you an idea of what you might expect from a typical devy draft.

Interesting list. There's just a tonne of value to be had in late round RBs in devy drafts right now imo.

Byron Marshall looks the most overrated to me. He's fast but he's not very shifty at all, especially for such a small and skinny back. He'll be a nobody in the NFL imo, he'd be on my do-not-draft list for devy drafts, let alone a top 10 pick.

After him, Melvin Gordon strikes me as a guy who's very overrated right now, by this time next year I think there'll be a consensus that there's a bunch of other RBs who are in his tier as a prospect, if not higher than him.

One of those RBs I think fits into that category is Javorius Allen; he's ~6'0 215lbs, plays for national powerhouse USC, and he put up these numbers over the final 6 game stretch of the season against PAC-10 teams:

106 carries, 648 rushing yards (6.11 YPC), 12 rushing TDs, 19 receptions, 243 receiving yards (12.8 YPR), 1 receiving TD.

Frankly I don't get why he's so underrated right now. He's bigger, shiftier, and perhaps just as fast as Melvin Gordon, yet he doesn't even make that list of 25 prospects. Imo he's in the same tier as Melvin Gordon right now if not higher.

This is from a different thread, but wanted to bring the discussion here.....

Allen goes down way too easily on ankle tackles compared to Gordon. He's #37 in this vid:

You're right it doesn't imply that one doesn't have short area quickness, but it means they won't be able to use their short area quickness as much as someone with shorter strides. And having longer strides isn't necessarily a benefit in the open field either; a guy with short strides but fast turnover can be just as fast or faster than someone who has long strides but slow turnover.