***2015 San Diego Chargers - Offseason News, Notes, & Analysis*** (1 Viewer)

[Gr00vus]

I can't even figure out wtf you idiots are talking about in here, but gordon is a beast.

that said, I'd generally rather have the linemen

That's what I'm talking about. Moreso defensive linemen. They keep trying to play a 3-4 with the very average Liuget and garbage up front and then wonder why their defense can't stop the run or generate any kind of pass rush. But upgrades across the offensive line are also in order, particularly if you're thinking of signing Rivers to an extension. Gordon may be good, but RB was the wrong place to spend these picks regardless, and running behind this line isn't going to do Gordon any favors.

Maybe they just wanted a flashy, marketable guy to help them from a public perception perspective in their stadium negotiations. From a total roster building perspective it's a real disappointing decision. And the subsequent choices are pretty baffling as well.

Now you're just being silly. SD does not need "upgrades across the offensive line". They just signed Franklin, resigned Dunlap, and used a #1 pick on Fluker 2 years ago. By all accounts the Bolts are happy and excited to have Watt at Center next year.

So, Franklin is single handedly going to bring the offensive line up in performance from terrible/very bad last year to above average this year? Because, other than that, I don't see why you wouldn't think they need upgrades across the line. I don't know that anyone they're planning on starting at OL this year could be considered better than average at their spot - heck, even average might be a stretch for most of them.

 

[Tau837]

I can't even figure out wtf you idiots are talking about in here, but gordon is a beast.

that said, I'd generally rather have the linemen

That's what I'm talking about. Moreso defensive linemen. They keep trying to play a 3-4 with the very average Liuget and garbage up front and then wonder why their defense can't stop the run or generate any kind of pass rush. But upgrades across the offensive line are also in order, particularly if you're thinking of signing Rivers to an extension. Gordon may be good, but RB was the wrong place to spend these picks regardless, and running behind this line isn't going to do Gordon any favors.

Maybe they just wanted a flashy, marketable guy to help them from a public perception perspective in their stadium negotiations. From a total roster building perspective it's a real disappointing decision. And the subsequent choices are pretty baffling as well.

Now you're just being silly. SD does not need "upgrades across the offensive line". They just signed Franklin, resigned Dunlap, and used a #1 pick on Fluker 2 years ago. By all accounts the Bolts are happy and excited to have Watt at Center next year.

So, Franklin is single handedly going to bring the offensive line up in performance from terrible/very bad last year to above average this year? Because, other than that, I don't see why you wouldn't think they need upgrades across the line. I don't know that anyone they're planning on starting at OL this year could be considered better than average at their spot - heck, even average might be a stretch for most of them.

Dunlap and Franklin are both above average, at least based on recent past performance. As I have posted previously, Fluker is average at best, Watt should be expected to be below average, and Troutman was one of the worst guards in the NFL last season.

So I do believe Franklin will be a big improvement, but I also think the team should have prioritized adding at least one more starter to get Troutman out of the lineup.

 

[Gr00vus]

I can't even figure out wtf you idiots are talking about in here, but gordon is a beast.

that said, I'd generally rather have the linemen

That's what I'm talking about. Moreso defensive linemen. They keep trying to play a 3-4 with the very average Liuget and garbage up front and then wonder why their defense can't stop the run or generate any kind of pass rush. But upgrades across the offensive line are also in order, particularly if you're thinking of signing Rivers to an extension. Gordon may be good, but RB was the wrong place to spend these picks regardless, and running behind this line isn't going to do Gordon any favors.

Maybe they just wanted a flashy, marketable guy to help them from a public perception perspective in their stadium negotiations. From a total roster building perspective it's a real disappointing decision. And the subsequent choices are pretty baffling as well.

Now you're just being silly. SD does not need "upgrades across the offensive line". They just signed Franklin, resigned Dunlap, and used a #1 pick on Fluker 2 years ago. By all accounts the Bolts are happy and excited to have Watt at Center next year.

So, Franklin is single handedly going to bring the offensive line up in performance from terrible/very bad last year to above average this year? Because, other than that, I don't see why you wouldn't think they need upgrades across the line. I don't know that anyone they're planning on starting at OL this year could be considered better than average at their spot - heck, even average might be a stretch for most of them.

Dunlap and Franklin are both above average, at least based on recent past performance. As I have posted previously, Fluker is average at best, Watt should be expected to be below average, and Troutman was one of the worst guards in the NFL last season.

So I do believe Franklin will be a big improvement, but I also think the team should have prioritized adding at least one more starter to get Troutman out of the lineup.

Fair enough. So would you agree that the Chargers could use upgrades at 3 of the 5 OL spots?

 

[BoltBacker]

I can't even figure out wtf you idiots are talking about in here, but gordon is a beast.

that said, I'd generally rather have the linemen

That's what I'm talking about. Moreso defensive linemen. They keep trying to play a 3-4 with the very average Liuget and garbage up front and then wonder why their defense can't stop the run or generate any kind of pass rush. But upgrades across the offensive line are also in order, particularly if you're thinking of signing Rivers to an extension. Gordon may be good, but RB was the wrong place to spend these picks regardless, and running behind this line isn't going to do Gordon any favors.

Maybe they just wanted a flashy, marketable guy to help them from a public perception perspective in their stadium negotiations. From a total roster building perspective it's a real disappointing decision. And the subsequent choices are pretty baffling as well.

Now you're just being silly. SD does not need "upgrades across the offensive line". They just signed Franklin, resigned Dunlap, and used a #1 pick on Fluker 2 years ago. By all accounts the Bolts are happy and excited to have Watt at Center next year.

By all accounts they must have been excited to start Troutman at guard last year. How did that turn out?

" Tyronne Greene the year before that. How did that turn out?

" Clary at RT the year before that. How did that turn out?

 

[BoltBacker]

Kouandjio was active for 1 game last year. Early had 8 total tackles on the season. Moncrief showed flashes, but since Boltbacker apparently considers Keenan Allen an average starter, he must consider Moncrief a complete bust. McGill started 1 game for an awful Raiders team and had 9 total tackles on the season. David Yankey did not play in a single game in 2014 for the Vikings.

Lol SD could have stayed with their own 2nd rounder and picked Early but instead used a 2nd and 4th rounder because they just had to have Attaochu. You're right, boy am I embarrassed.

Early 15games, 1FF, 4sacks, 9tackles, 7assists

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EalyKo00.htm

Attaochu 11games, 1PD, 1FF, 2sacks, 8tackels, 2assists

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AttaJe00.htm

Here is your take after SD used a 2nd rounder and 4th rounder for Attaochu, "LOVE the Attaochu pick. I bet he was one of the tArgets at 25 if the corners had not been there."

One of these guys is obviously worth a 2nd and 4th rounder while the other guy is obviously only worth a second rounder. Good call.

I have said Allen was a good pick since they day they made it so I don't even know what you are going on about there.

Would I rather have Moncrief than Watt? Yes, it's not even close. The disaster at the C position was the single biggest reason the Chargers missed the playoffs last season. This revisionist history that Watt was "good enough" might be my favorite example of group amnesia this spring.

I'm not sure how you've decided the best CB is the one that has the most tackles. Can you name the two CB's that led the NFL in tackles last season? Do you honestly think those are the best two CB's? I do know McGill played in 12 games last season while Verrett was only able to play in 5 games. But let's pretend that you are right and a CB can be defined by nothing more than his tackle totals. McGill got 9 tackles as a 4th rounder and Verrett got 18 tackles as a 1st rounder. That looks stupid on the scale you've chosen to judge things by.

I have no idea if Kouandjio/Yankey would have helped the SD interior line or not but it's difficult to imagine anybody playing worse than the interior of the SD OL last year. I would keep taking OL until SD at least had average starters across the front since their entire season revolves around Rivers health. Call me crazy.

 

[BoltBacker]

Fair enough. So would you agree that the Chargers could use upgrades at 3 of the 5 OL spots?

I am not as critical of Fluker as many are, he had one season where he performed above expectations and one below expectations. People were saying since the day he was drafted that he might fit better as an OG and I wish they would have made moves so we could have seen him play there.

I just think the other 2 OL positions are SOOOO weak. I haven't heard anyone that can say a good thing about Troutman, yet he's still a starter? The people trying desperately to spin Watt as a "good" C can only point to the fact he was the 25th best run blocking C last season and don't mention what his pass blocking was. Run blocking was supposed to be his strength and even that was well below average.

 

[Sabertooth]

What are thoughts on Dontrell Inman as a fantasy asset moving forward? He is unrostered in my 12 team 24 man dynasty right now and I don't believe he's on many owners radar. Lacking top picks I'm hoping to snag him in round three. Any future here?

 

[Tau837]

I can't even figure out wtf you idiots are talking about in here, but gordon is a beast.

that said, I'd generally rather have the linemen

That's what I'm talking about. Moreso defensive linemen. They keep trying to play a 3-4 with the very average Liuget and garbage up front and then wonder why their defense can't stop the run or generate any kind of pass rush. But upgrades across the offensive line are also in order, particularly if you're thinking of signing Rivers to an extension. Gordon may be good, but RB was the wrong place to spend these picks regardless, and running behind this line isn't going to do Gordon any favors.

Maybe they just wanted a flashy, marketable guy to help them from a public perception perspective in their stadium negotiations. From a total roster building perspective it's a real disappointing decision. And the subsequent choices are pretty baffling as well.

Now you're just being silly. SD does not need "upgrades across the offensive line". They just signed Franklin, resigned Dunlap, and used a #1 pick on Fluker 2 years ago. By all accounts the Bolts are happy and excited to have Watt at Center next year.

So, Franklin is single handedly going to bring the offensive line up in performance from terrible/very bad last year to above average this year? Because, other than that, I don't see why you wouldn't think they need upgrades across the line. I don't know that anyone they're planning on starting at OL this year could be considered better than average at their spot - heck, even average might be a stretch for most of them.

Dunlap and Franklin are both above average, at least based on recent past performance. As I have posted previously, Fluker is average at best, Watt should be expected to be below average, and Troutman was one of the worst guards in the NFL last season.

So I do believe Franklin will be a big improvement, but I also think the team should have prioritized adding at least one more starter to get Troutman out of the lineup.

Fair enough. So would you agree that the Chargers could use upgrades at 3 of the 5 OL spots?

I think the minimum needed is one upgrade. It could be at C, pushing Watt to RG or at RG or at RT, pushing Fluker inside to RG. Any one of those would push Troutman to the bench, virtually guaranteeing a huge upgrade in the lineup.

I think it would be great to upgrade Watt as well, but I think that is more of a luxury that does not outprioritize other needs in the defensive front 7.

Just to give a feel for this, using PFF grades from 2014, here was last year's grades for the Chargers:

LT (+5.6) - Dunlap (+6.8 on 1080 snaps), Smith (-1.2 on 9 snaps)

LG (-22.7) - Rinehart (-22.7 on 1089 snaps)

C (-26.7) - Ohrnberger (-11.0 on 453 snaps), Watt (-0.4 on 331 snaps), Robinson (-4.5 on 172 snaps), Legursky (-9.7 on 137 snaps), Hardwick (-1.1 on 16 snaps)

RG (-27.3) - Troutman (-25.1 on 790 snaps), Watt (-2.1 on 125 snaps), Sirles (-0.1 on 114 snaps)

RT (-10.5) - Fluker (-8.8 on 1042 snaps), Smith (-1.7 on 60 snaps)

The snaps don't exactly add up consistently, so there was likely some more shuffling between positions than is shown here, but this is the right ballpark. Obviously, the interior of the line was a massive problem that dwarfs Fluker's poor performance. I think it is safe to say that no team performed worse at center or guard last season.

Now consider the current projected starting lineup:

LT - Dunlap (+6.8 on 1080 snaps scales to ~+6.9 on 1089 snaps)

LG - Franklin (+12.0 on 1123 snaps scales to ~+11.6 on 1089 snaps)

C - Watt (-0.4 on 331 snaps scales to ~-1.3 on 1089 snaps)

RG - Troutman (-25.1 on 790 snaps scales to ~-34.6 on 1089 snaps)

RT - Fluker (-8.8 on 1042 snaps scales to ~-9.2 on 1089 snaps)

I'm sure everyone won't play all of the snaps, so some of the depth will come into play. And I'm sure scaling last year's ratings has flaws. But it's a way to get a look at what might be projected for this year.

Dunlap and Franklin should be good to great. In particular, with Franklin, not only does the team get a very strong performer, he steps in at a position where the team had a horrible performance last year, so it is a huge swing.

While Watt may be below average, he still represents a likely upgrade on last year's disaster at center.

Fluker was below average last year, but he also played hurt for much of the season. It is possible he will improve that rating with better health.

Unfortunately, Troutman still looks like the guy who will start at RG. He did play better at LG in 2013 (-9.9 on 648 snaps), so I suppose there is hope he can improve his performance.

Collectively, this already represents a significant improvement. And it isn't clear how much the poor individual performances in the middle had on the tackles. For instance, in 2013, Dunlap graded out at +22.7 and Fluker at -2.8. So there is potential for even greater improvement than is implied by the individual grades. Now imagine if they could add one more upgrade to push Troutman to the bench.

 

[Pumpnick]

Think Gordon will be a 3rd down back in the future or will SD always switch in and out how they have with wood head?

 

[BoltNlava]

Think Gordon will be a 3rd down back in the future or will SD always switch in and out how they have with wood head?

As far back as I can remember they have used a 3rd down back. #littletrainjames

 

[tommyGunZ]

While I'm not ready to predict multiple Pro Bowls in Watt's future, I think some of you are being harsh on a rookie 3rd round pick who switched positions on the fly during the middle of the season last year. There were definitely bumps in the road - he was brutal in that Sunday night game vs NE - but overall I thought he held his own and by all accounts the FO and players (I.e. Rivers) seems to believe he has all the attributes to be a good Center.

How about we give him an offseason and pre-season to learn and develop at the new position before writing off last year's 3rd rounder?

 

[BoltBacker]

Well, I think part of the problem is SD has always approached the OL in a way they can't assemble 5 quality guys just to start. I'm not sure how often 5 guys play 16/16 games in an NFL season(80/80 without injury) but it doesn't seem like it is all that often to me. To get through an NFL season you realistically need 6+ talented OLman. That's why traditionally when SD experiences the usual 1-2 guys getting dinged up their OL hits a complete tailspin and the whole thing blows up.

 

[Tau837]

While I'm not ready to predict multiple Pro Bowls in Watt's future, I think some of you are being harsh on a rookie 3rd round pick who switched positions on the fly during the middle of the season last year. There were definitely bumps in the road - he was brutal in that Sunday night game vs NE - but overall I thought he held his own and by all accounts the FO and players (I.e. Rivers) seems to believe he has all the attributes to be a good Center.

How about we give him an offseason and pre-season to learn and develop at the new position before writing off last year's 3rd rounder?

Well, I think part of the problem is SD has always approached the OL in a way they can't assemble 5 quality guys just to start. I'm not sure how often 5 guys play 16/16 games in an NFL season(80/80 without injury) but it doesn't seem like it is all that often to me. To get through an NFL season you realistically need 6+ talented OLman. That's why traditionally when SD experiences the usual 1-2 guys getting dinged up their OL hits a complete tailspin and the whole thing blows up.

Both of you are right, which is why I characterized upgrading Watt as a luxury. There are two OL problems bigger than Watt: Troutman and depth.

If they don't upgrade Troutman and he doesn't improve, the right side of the OL is going to be pretty weak.

Last year, they had Watt to bring in off the bench, and he was pretty good for a rookie, especially when he was moved to center, a new position. This year, they don't have a Watt caliber backup OL to bring in.

 

[Bucky86]

So, lets say we get a top 10-15 pick next season. We need to move up and grab a QB, right?

 

[Bruce Hammond]

Vegas likes Melvin Gordon for rookie award

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/may/05/chargers-melvin-gordon-telesco-nfl-draft-wisconsin/

 

[Bucky86]

Does this Collins kid play RT? Let's get him and move Fluker to RG. CHAMPIONSHIP!

 

[BoltBacker]

Vegas likes Melvin Gordon for rookie award

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/may/05/chargers-melvin-gordon-telesco-nfl-draft-wisconsin/

What does this say about all those draftniks who were trying to compare Gurley to Peterson? I don't know if you follow the FBG podcasts but I honestly thought there was a chance Bloom was going to break down in tears when Gurley got selected.

I see Las Vegas is willing to lose money just to be overly critical of the Telesco draft like jwb and myself. Before the draft SD was 40-1 to win the SB, after the draft SD a 50-1 shot to win the SB. That's the culmination of several great offseasons.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Brett Kollmann's YouTube channel is great.

You should watch the Melvin Gordon video. (Then watch his other videos.)

 

[tommyGunZ]

Brett Kollman's YouTube channel is great.

You should watch the

Hanks for sharing MT. Can't wait to see MG3 in September

 

[Gr00vus]

MG3?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Yes melvin gordon tha third

 

[Gr00vus]

Yes melvin gordon tha third

I had no idea.

 

[ldizzle]

Vegas likes Melvin Gordon for rookie award

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/may/05/chargers-melvin-gordon-telesco-nfl-draft-wisconsin/

What does this say about all those draftniks who were trying to compare Gurley to Peterson? I don't know if you follow the FBG podcasts but I honestly thought there was a chance Bloom was going to break down in tears when Gurley got selected.I see Las Vegas is willing to lose money just to be overly critical of the Telesco draft like jwb and myself. Before the draft SD was 40-1 to win the SB, after the draft SD a 50-1 shot to win the SB. That's the culmination of several great offseasons.

to be fair, Gurley may miss some games to start the season. So unless he comes out guns blazing Odell Beckham style, it would be pretty difficult especially with the sorry line that the Rams have.

 

[BoltBacker]

So, lets say we get a top 10-15 pick next season. We need to move up and grab a QB, right?

Not necessarily.

Bleacher Report has a mock for the 2016 draft already(I know, I know, but it is kind of a fun idea) and they four QB's taken in the top 17 picks next year. The four they mention are: Hackenberg(Penn St), Jones(Ohio St), Cook(Michigan St), Goff(California). Other sites have Prescott(Mississippi St), Kessler(USC), and Hogan(Stanford) in that same conversation. It could be a good year to select a QB in the early rounds depending on how the next year plays out obviously. Of course this is the time of year everyone is excited about potential, starting in January everyone tries to dissect each looking for weaknesses. It's kind of fun to put together a list of players to keep tabs on at the very least. It's also interesting because Goff/Kessler/Hogan are all guys most SD fans can see often.

I agree with you that SD needs to be grooming a young guy and I would hope they plan an getting someone soon. Every team should really imo, but when you have a guy in his mid-30's it's crazy not to be preparing someone... even if you throw out the contract talk.

 

[BoltBacker]

Did Barksdale ever sign with someone as a RT? After the STL draft I can't imagine him going back there having drafted Havenstein(and just about every other OLman under the sun).

I wish there were some pressure on Telesco to sign Barksdale and DeLaPuenta. He could still make up for completely neglecting the OL in the draft. It's complete madness everyone seems fine starting Troutman again this season.

Plenty of $ to spend and if the SD OL tanks again and costs Rivers yet another season Telesco should be fired. People really need to go back and watch the last game of the season in KC again. You win that game and SD makes the playoffs. Does Orlando Franklin fix everything that was wrong on the OL in that game? Be honest.

 

[Tau837]

From The NFL Draft Shell Game:

...sometimes those trade-ups work out. We know from looking at trades in the past, though, that teams are almost always better off trading down to acquire more picks than trading up to grab a lone player. The consensus is almost always a better judge than any individual talent evaluator. Ozzie Newsome traded up for Kyle Boller. Ted Thompson moved up to grab Jerel Worthy. Bill Belichick dealt several picks for the chance to draft Ron Brace. Drafting is tough, and the best way to draft well is to get as many chances to pick players as possible.

With that in mind, let’s examine the trades that took place during this year’s NFL draft. To evaluate the selections, I’ll be using the draft value chart developed by Chase Stuart, which uses historical estimates of return to place a value on each selection. First, I’ll run through the 10 most lopsided trades from the draft. I’ll finish up by looking at the teams that gained or gave away the most draft capital with the moves they made.

...

7. San Francisco–San Diego
San Francisco sends: 1-15
San Diego sends: 1-17, 4-117, 2016 fifth-round pick
Value on the dollar: 135.1 percent

Chargers general manager Tom Telesco has done a great job rebuilding San Diego’s roster over the last few seasons, but he had one of the more curious drafts this year. It started in the first round, where Telesco strangely doubled down on one of his biggest mistakes when he selected running back Melvin Gordon with the 15th pick. Having inherited a moribund running game from predecessor A.J. Smith, Telesco cobbled together an effective attack by placing his faith in the oft-frustrating Ryan Mathews, even when the former first-round pick’s stock was lowest. He made a brilliant signing by adding Danny Woodhead on a bargain-basement contract, giving the Chargers a pair of backs who complemented each other without making a serious commitment to either player.

Strangely, then, he went into free agency with limited cap space in 2014 and signed Colts rotation back Donald Brown to a relatively lucrative deal for that class, giving Brown three years and $10.5 million. Brown (whose role is now completely marginalized by this draft pick) promptly averaged 2.6 yards per carry and got punter Mike Scifres destroyed as a personal protector. Woodhead and Mathews both got hurt, and in the end the Chargers invested heavily in running backs and got absolutely nothing out of the equation.

You would assume Telesco would notice that and try to fill out his running back rotation on the cheap, but instead he gave up a fourth-round pick to move ahead of the Texans and draft Gordon. Even if Gordon is talented, it’s an odd use of resources.

...

Let’s see who gained and lost the most draft capital over the weekend. I’ve gone through all the trades and calculated each team’s difference after the dust settled. This doesn’t include the few players who were dealt, but as Zac Stacy was the highest-profile player involved in a draft-day trade, I’m not especially concerned the numbers are missing some key contributor. I’ll start with the table for teams that added the most capital over the three-day stretch.

In addition to the values, I’ll also put the numbers in context with the “Like” column on the right. That column assesses the cumulative amount gained over the weekend like it was the value of a single pick in a vacuum. The 49ers, for example, led the league by gaining 6.6 points of draft capital through their trades. Stuart’s model suggests the 81st pick is worth 6.6 points of draft capital, so the 49ers basically generated an 81st pick for free.

...

Some teams, of course, gave up more than they gained. The pick in the “Like” column estimates the draft capital they lost.

Team In Out Diff Rank LikeChargers 17.4 23.5 -6.1 T-1 88

Given that Telesco has traded away picks in every draft, it seems likely that he leads the league in draft value given up during his tenure. Hopefully Gordon will prove to be more worthwhile of the move than Teo and Attaochu have so far.

 

[Gr00vus]

I don't think Telesco is any good. It's what I was afraid of when they brought him on. I really hope Gordon works out, but it still looks like a panic move to me.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I don't think Telesco is any good. It's what I was afraid of when they brought him on. I really hope Gordon works out, but it still looks like a panic move to me.

rookie GM

but like most GMs has hits and missed every year. Only 1 offensive line move seems weird this off season though

 

[tommyGunZ]

From The NFL Draft Shell Game:

...sometimes those trade-ups work out. We know from looking at trades in the past, though, that teams are almost always better off trading down to acquire more picks than trading up to grab a lone player. The consensus is almost always a better judge than any individual talent evaluator. Ozzie Newsome traded up for Kyle Boller. Ted Thompson moved up to grab Jerel Worthy. Bill Belichick dealt several picks for the chance to draft Ron Brace. Drafting is tough, and the best way to draft well is to get as many chances to pick players as possible.

With that in mind, let’s examine the trades that took place during this year’s NFL draft. To evaluate the selections, I’ll be using the draft value chart developed by Chase Stuart, which uses historical estimates of return to place a value on each selection. First, I’ll run through the 10 most lopsided trades from the draft. I’ll finish up by looking at the teams that gained or gave away the most draft capital with the moves they made.

...

7. San Francisco–San Diego

San Francisco sends: 1-15

San Diego sends: 1-17, 4-117, 2016 fifth-round pick

Value on the dollar: 135.1 percent

Chargers general manager Tom Telesco has done a great job rebuilding San Diego’s roster over the last few seasons, but he had one of the more curious drafts this year. It started in the first round, where Telesco strangely doubled down on one of his biggest mistakes when he selected running back Melvin Gordon with the 15th pick. Having inherited a moribund running game from predecessor A.J. Smith, Telesco cobbled together an effective attack by placing his faith in the oft-frustrating Ryan Mathews, even when the former first-round pick’s stock was lowest. He made a brilliant signing by adding Danny Woodhead on a bargain-basement contract, giving the Chargers a pair of backs who complemented each other without making a serious commitment to either player.

Strangely, then, he went into free agency with limited cap space in 2014 and signed Colts rotation back Donald Brown to a relatively lucrative deal for that class, giving Brown three years and $10.5 million. Brown (whose role is now completely marginalized by this draft pick) promptly averaged 2.6 yards per carry and got punter Mike Scifres destroyed as a personal protector. Woodhead and Mathews both got hurt, and in the end the Chargers invested heavily in running backs and got absolutely nothing out of the equation.

You would assume Telesco would notice that and try to fill out his running back rotation on the cheap, but instead he gave up a fourth-round pick to move ahead of the Texans and draft Gordon. Even if Gordon is talented, it’s an odd use of resources.

...

Let’s see who gained and lost the most draft capital over the weekend. I’ve gone through all the trades and calculated each team’s difference after the dust settled. This doesn’t include the few players who were dealt, but as Zac Stacy was the highest-profile player involved in a draft-day trade, I’m not especially concerned the numbers are missing some key contributor. I’ll start with the table for teams that added the most capital over the three-day stretch.

In addition to the values, I’ll also put the numbers in context with the “Like” column on the right. That column assesses the cumulative amount gained over the weekend like it was the value of a single pick in a vacuum. The 49ers, for example, led the league by gaining 6.6 points of draft capital through their trades. Stuart’s model suggests the 81st pick is worth 6.6 points of draft capital, so the 49ers basically generated an 81st pick for free.

...

Some teams, of course, gave up more than they gained. The pick in the “Like” column estimates the draft capital they lost.

Team In Out Diff Rank LikeChargers 17.4 23.5 -6.1 T-1 88

Given that Telesco has traded away picks in every draft, it seems likely that he leads the league in draft value given up during his tenure. Hopefully Gordon will prove to be more worthwhile of the move than Teo and Attaochu have so far.

Telesco has been so good at the draft that he deserves the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

I think where you stand with regard to RB being a position of need and on MG3 as a player likely defines how you feel about TT's 2015 draft at this point.

 

[Despyzer]

Yes melvin gordon tha third

I had no idea.

The Chargers have had some pretty sorry nicknames lately.... VJ, LT2, E-dub, MG3... even Say-Ow was pretty sorry.

They need to generate the kinds of nicknames that inspire a trip to a SuperBowl again: Neutron Bomb, The Sheriff, Commissioner Gordon, Mims the Word, Sleeping with Bienemy.

Heck, at one time even their coach had a nickname so good that Michael Jordan stole it from him.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I had a natrone means business shirt. Thing was awesome. I miss it. Would kill for a xxl one now

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I had a natrone means business ####.

That sounds disgusting.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I had a natrone means business ####.

That sounds disgusting.

Lol shirt

 

[Freelove]

Yes melvin gordon tha third

I had no idea.

The Chargers have had some pretty sorry nicknames lately.... VJ, LT2, E-dub, MG3... even Say-Ow was pretty sorry.

They need to generate the kinds of nicknames that inspire a trip to a SuperBowl again: Neutron Bomb, The Sheriff, Commissioner Gordon, Mims the Word, Sleeping with Bienemy.

Heck, at one time even their coach had a nickname so good that Michael Jordan stole it from him.

I don't think it's the Chargers. I think it's just the social media world we live in.

 

[Gr00vus]

Yes melvin gordon tha third

I had no idea.

The Chargers have had some pretty sorry nicknames lately.... VJ, LT2, E-dub, MG3... even Say-Ow was pretty sorry.

They need to generate the kinds of nicknames that inspire a trip to a SuperBowl again: Neutron Bomb, The Sheriff, Commissioner Gordon, Mims the Word, Sleeping with Bienemy.

Heck, at one time even their coach had a nickname so good that Michael Jordan stole it from him.

You forgot Bambi, Little Train, Big Hands...

 

[BoltBacker]

Yes melvin gordon tha third

I had no idea.

The Chargers have had some pretty sorry nicknames lately.... VJ, LT2, E-dub, MG3... even Say-Ow was pretty sorry.

They need to generate the kinds of nicknames that inspire a trip to a SuperBowl again: Neutron Bomb, The Sheriff, Commissioner Gordon, Mims the Word, Sleeping with Bienemy.

Heck, at one time even their coach had a nickname so good that Michael Jordan stole it from him.

You forgot Bambi, Little Train, Big Hands...

Bobby "Go Deep" Duckworth

 

[BoltBacker]

I had a natrone means business ####.

That sounds disgusting.

Lol shirt

Yeah, that sort of sounded like you found a really, REALLY cheap Indian food restaurant.

 

[BoltBacker]

Given that Telesco has traded away picks in every draft, it seems likely that he leads the league in draft value given up during his tenure. Hopefully Gordon will prove to be more worthwhile of the move than Teo and Attaochu have so far.

It wouldn't even bother me as much if he were giving up picks in a panic to get his next QB, or a pass blocking tackle, or a shut down corner, or elite pass rusher.... but he's giving up these picks for RBBC backs and LBBC linebackers. He's given up 7 picks(1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 4th, and 5th) for 3 rotational players.

 

[Sabertooth]

Is Inman going to start this year at WR alongside Allen?

 

[BoltBacker]

Telesco has been so good at the draft that he deserves the benefit of the doubt, IMO.I think where you stand with regard to RB being a position of need and on MG3 as a player likely defines how you feel about TT's 2015 draft at this point.

??? I don't know what this means, and I'm a bigger fan of Fluker than most. Can you list the number of above average NFL starters Telesco has drafted?

I haven't heard a single fan, of the Chargers or any other team, that felt RB was not a position of need for the Chargers.

 

[BoltBacker]

Is Inman going to start this year at WR alongside Allen?

Only if there are injuries.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Is Inman going to start this year at WR alongside Allen?

No

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Is Inman going to start this year at WR alongside Allen?

My take:

Keenan Allen is the team's best receiver; he could line up in the slot more often, helping him get a clean release. Steve Johnson and Malcom Floyd will be WR2 and WR3, in some order or another. Dontrelle Inman and Austin Pettis will battle for WR4 and WR5. Jacoby Jones is mainly a return man. Eddie Royal is gone.

 

[Tau837]

Is Inman going to start this year at WR alongside Allen?

My take:

Keenan Allen is the team's best receiver; he could line up in the slot more often, helping him get a clean release. Steve Johnson and Malcom Floyd will be WR2 and WR3, in some order or another. Dontrelle Inman and Austin Pettis will battle for WR4 and WR5. Jacoby Jones is mainly a return man. Eddie Royal is gone.

Your take makes it sound as if you think the team will have 6 WRs on the final roster (Allen, Johnson, Floyd, Inman, Pettis, Jones). That would surprise me. Is that what you are projecting?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

They'll keep five or six. I don't think we can rule six out, especially if Jones is used as just a return man. (That doesn't mean all six would be active, of course.)

 

[Tau837]

So I'm interested in figuring out where the roster battles will be. I figure these guys are likely to make the final roster barring injury:

QB - Rivers, Clemens

RB - Gordon, Woodhead, Oliver

FB - Johnson

WR - Allen, Floyd, Johnson, Jones

TE - Gates, Green, Phillips

OT - Dunlap, Fluker

G - Franklin, Troutman

C - Watt, Robinson

DT - Carrethers, Lissemore, Unrein

DE - Liuget, Mathews, Reyes

OLB - Ingram, Attaochu, Williams

ILB - Teo, Butler, Perryman, Conner

CB - Flowers, Verrett, Robinson, Mager

S - Weddle, Wilson, Addae, Stuckey

PK - Novak

P - Scifres

LS - Windt

That is 43 players, leaving 10 spots for everyone else. IMO that probably breaks down something like this:

1 RB - Likely Brown, unfortunately.

1 WR - I expect Ingram to secure his roster spot as the #4 WR.

3 OL - I think Hairston will claim one of these spots, not sure about the other two... Wiggins and Sirles? This is very weak depth. Hoping for at least one more free agency signing at this position, which would push at least one of those guys (or Troutman) off the roster.

2 DL - Presumably 2 of Philon, Palepoi, and Square. Would love to see another free agency signing here, but not expecting it. I suspect Philon has an edge since he is young and viewed as a project with good upside.

1 OLB - This is Emanuel's to win.

2 DB - I expect Williams to make it. Can Davis hold off the others? Davis adds versatility in the return game, but that may not help him with the Jones signing.

I suppose Pettis or Titus Davis could surprise and push the team to 6 WRs in its final 53. If the team goes with 6 WRs, I guess that implies 1 fewer OL, DL, or DB than I show here. Given the injuries last season at OL and CB, IMO it would be tough to go with a 6th WR over a 9th OL or 10th DB.

Thoughts?

 

[Tau837]

I was looking at the Chargers salary cap breakdown for 2015 and found this interesting. Here is where spotrac projects them to rank at each position in terms of cap amount dedicated to the position:

#1 (most in NFL) - P, S

#3 - TE

#6 - QB

#9 - RB

#10 - ILB

#11 - LS

#14 - FB

#15 - RT

#16 - G

#17 - K

#23 - LT, CB, WR

#25 - DE

#27 - C

#28 - DT

#29 - OLB

ETA: Also noticed that they are showing a lower cap figure than I remembered from the last time I looked. Spotrac shows the Chargers with ~$10M in available cap room after accounting for the rookie salaries.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Man that dline is awful

 

[cstu]

Signed Barksdale! (not sure if that's worth the ! but hey, good signing).

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Signed Barksdale! (not sure if that's worth the ! but hey, good signing).

kids a mauler, maybe plays guard?