***2015 San Diego Chargers - Offseason News, Notes, & Analysis*** (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

Signed Barksdale! (not sure if that's worth the ! but hey, good signing).

kids a mauler, maybe plays guard?

Per PFF:

2011 (OAK): -2.8 grade in 119 snaps at RT, -1.8 grade in 37 snaps at LG

2012 (STL): -3.3 grade in 126 snaps at LT

2013 (STL): +9.2 grade in 838 snaps at RT (13 starts)

2014 (STL): -5.9 grade in 1031 snaps at RT (16 starts)


The Raiders drafted him with the 92nd pick in the 2011 draft and waived him in September 2012. The Rams claimed him off waivers. I haven't seen any references to why the Raiders waived him so quickly.

His PFF grades are completely inconsistent. Not just the overall grades, but the pass blocking and run blocking grades. In 2013, he had a high pass blocking grade (+8.2) but poor run blocking grade (-1.2). In 2014, it was reversed (-9.4 for pass blocking, +5.6 for run blocking).

Obviously, there wasn't much of a free agent market for him, which is why he lasted this long. I assume that is due to poor play evidenced by these grades.

All that said, he seems likely to be an upgrade to the starting lineup, whether at RG or RT with Fluker moving to RG. That puts Troutman on the bench, which is another boost to the OL.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

market didn't seem strong on him but I think he also got married and was out of the country during free agency, so that might help explain it.

anyway, like you mentioned, the ripple effect at rg might be more significant.

line's lookin' pretty good for gordon, right now.

 

[Despyzer]

... and the O-line ALWAYS suffers injuries. Depth at that position is a good thing.

 

[BoltBacker]

I think it's a great move that non-Charger fans will yawn at. It kind of reminds me of the Flowers signing about this time of year last year. Non-Charger fans were saying Flowers probably wouldn't be able to beat out Shareece Wright but we knew better. Similarly, non-Charger fans will shrug because they don't think Barksdale is a big improvement over Fluker at RT but as has already been stated...

Fluker(RG)+Barksdale(RT) >>>>> Troutman(RG)+Fluker(RT)

... and that's assuming Fluker doesn't take a big step forward as an OG, the position many said would be his best NFL position when he was drafted. Barksdale has generally been improving, is only 27yo, and can be a better pass blocker than Fluker. Great move by Telesco here.

Still wish they would improve the depth at C with a sub $1mil veteran but this is a big step forward on the right side of the line, to go with the big step forward on the left side by signing Franklin. Well done Telesco!

 

[Tau837]

From Chargers S Eric Weddle not expected to attend OTAs:

While Weddle's cap hit in 2015 ($10.1 million), the final year of his contract, is the biggest among all Safeties in the league....his contract works out to, on average, make him the 6th highest paid Safety in the league ($8 million per year).

The 30-year old Pro Bowl Safety is looking for another extension to keep him in San Diego for the rest of his prime, and wants to again be the highest paid Safety in the league (or close to that). However, when he got his last contract extension, he was dealing with A.J. Smith as the team's General Manager.

According to some whispers I've heard, Tom Telesco is not interested in having one of the highest paid Safeties in the league on his roster. He would rather spread the money around elsewhere (likely on Corey Liuget and maybe Melvin Ingram, when he hits free agency). The team has, behind closed doors, essentially expressed that they'd love to have Weddle back...at a pretty massive discount. Otherwise, they're happy to part ways with him and use that money on another player (or players).

Weddle (and his camp) are, understandably, irritated. When the best Safety in the league comes to you asking for a contract extension, it's usually a good idea to say yes. They don't understand why the team isn't jumping at the opportunity.

I don't see the team budging here, and I don't see Weddle going nuts with his holdout. Expect him to be there at training camp in the summer, staying relatively quiet about his contract status, and expect him to be playing for another team next season (likely with some bad words for the current front office on his way out the door).

From earlier conversation in the thread, it seems many of you agree with this.

I read somewhere else that one reason that the Chargers haven't been more serious about addressing the NT deficiency is because they don't really play a 3-4 defense but rather a 3-4 "hybrid" defense that de-emphasizes the importance of NT. I don't think the Chargers' run defense results in recent seasons support that take.

Anyway, I mention it because when I read that, I also read that the Chargers used 5 DBs on 69-70% of their defensive snaps last season, which was cited to emphasize the "hybrid" nature of the defense. The thing is, it seems that if you play nickel defense that frequently, that should only increase the value of an All Pro FS. If this author is right, Telesco doesn't see it that way.

(Aside: does anyone know of an online source to find breakdowns on Chargers' personnel on all snaps, like how many times in nickel, etc.?)

 

[BoltBacker]

I read somewhere else that one reason that the Chargers haven't been more serious about addressing the NT deficiency is because they don't really play a 3-4 defense but rather a 3-4 "hybrid" defense that de-emphasizes the importance of NT. I don't think the Chargers' run defense results in recent seasons support that take.


Anyway, I mention it because when I read that, I also read that the Chargers used 5 DBs on 69-70% of their defensive snaps last season, which was cited to emphasize the "hybrid" nature of the defense. The thing is, it seems that if you play nickel defense that frequently, that should only increase the value of an All Pro FS. If this author is right, Telesco doesn't see it that way.

The Charger run defense definitely reflects the fact the current front office and coaches look at NT and SS as after thoughts.

I am not that surprised that SD plays a nickel defense so often, but imo that makes the DL MORE important, not less. If you have 5 DB's on the field most of the game they should be more likely to be in position to be successful even if they aren't All-Pro's. This is the reason I've said over and over I don't understand all the resources dumped into ILB if you are playing a nickel defense that often. The current DL isn't going to get ANY pass rush so both Ingram and AT&T to be on the field most of the time. What percentage of defensive snaps are two of Te'o/Butler/Perryman going to be on the field together at the same time? Sounds to me like they have a very, very expensive three man rotation for a position that has had waning importance in the league for several years.

I think they are going to need that Weddle $ to completely rebuild one of the worst DL's in the entire league. That's why I thought they should trade him even though he's had a great career in SD and earned every cent of his past contracts. SD simply can't afford the luxury of an All-Pro S when they are missing the playoffs due to play in the trenches. Something tells me Kubiak entering the division isn't going to make the DL look any better when trying to stop the run.

 

[cstu]

The Charger run defense definitely reflects the fact the current front office and coaches look at NT and SS as after thoughts.

I am not that surprised that SD plays a nickel defense so often, but imo that makes the DL MORE important, not less. If you have 5 DB's on the field most of the game they should be more likely to be in position to be successful even if they aren't All-Pro's. This is the reason I've said over and over I don't understand all the resources dumped into ILB if you are playing a nickel defense that often. The current DL isn't going to get ANY pass rush so both Ingram and AT&T to be on the field most of the time. What percentage of defensive snaps are two of Te'o/Butler/Perryman going to be on the field together at the same time? Sounds to me like they have a very, very expensive three man rotation for a position that has had waning importance in the league for several years.

I think they are going to need that Weddle $ to completely rebuild one of the worst DL's in the entire league. That's why I thought they should trade him even though he's had a great career in SD and earned every cent of his past contracts. SD simply can't afford the luxury of an All-Pro S when they are missing the playoffs due to play in the trenches. Something tells me Kubiak entering the division isn't going to make the DL look any better when trying to stop the run.

Seems like we agree on a lot of things. The way the league is now (quick hitting spread offenses) defenses can't afford a weak DL. Quarterbacks are throwing the ball effectively within 2 seconds. If the DL isn't getting a push to disrupt the QB's rhythm then there's little the secondary can do - QB's will pick the defense apart.

Look at the Texans - they have spent massive draft capital and money on the DL and are winning despite castoffs at QB.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The Charger run defense definitely reflects the fact the current front office and coaches look at NT and SS as after thoughts.

I am not that surprised that SD plays a nickel defense so often, but imo that makes the DL MORE important, not less. If you have 5 DB's on the field most of the game they should be more likely to be in position to be successful even if they aren't All-Pro's. This is the reason I've said over and over I don't understand all the resources dumped into ILB if you are playing a nickel defense that often. The current DL isn't going to get ANY pass rush so both Ingram and AT&T to be on the field most of the time. What percentage of defensive snaps are two of Te'o/Butler/Perryman going to be on the field together at the same time? Sounds to me like they have a very, very expensive three man rotation for a position that has had waning importance in the league for several years.

I think they are going to need that Weddle $ to completely rebuild one of the worst DL's in the entire league. That's why I thought they should trade him even though he's had a great career in SD and earned every cent of his past contracts. SD simply can't afford the luxury of an All-Pro S when they are missing the playoffs due to play in the trenches. Something tells me Kubiak entering the division isn't going to make the DL look any better when trying to stop the run.

Seems like we agree on a lot of things. The way the league is now (quick hitting spread offenses) defenses can't afford a weak DL. Quarterbacks are throwing the ball effectively within 2 seconds. If the DL isn't getting a push to disrupt the QB's rhythm then there's little the secondary can do - QB's will pick the defense apart.

Look at the Texans - they have spent massive draft capital and money on the DL and are winning despite castoffs at QB.

what is Houston winning?

 

[Tau837]

Chargers' salary cap space: Philip Rivers, Eric Weddle pose potential road bumps

Spending Habits

The Chargers have spent the last four or five years somewhat compromised by salary cap decisions made in the late 2000s that hindered their ability to add significant players in free agency. San Diego had been stuck in a tough position where they were too good to rebuild, but not good enough to be much more than an eight- or nine-win team. This led to years of bargain bin shopping for stopgap solutions.

This year, their cap situation finally became more flexible and they began to take on a few larger contacts with the signing of cornerback Brandon Flowers, tackle King Dunlap and guard Orlando Franklin; but they are still one year away from the complete removal of salary cap constraints. Other than those players, free agency represented more of the same approach with a number of low-cost veterans being signed to contracts to fill out the positions of need on the roster, such as Johnson and Jones, to complete the wide receiver grouping at the low combined cost of $6.75 million per year.

Given the reliance on mid-level veteran contracts, the Chargers rank in the middle of the NFL in cap spending, though the split between offense and defense is stark. San Diego is one of the lowest spending teams in the NFL on their defensive unit, with safety being the only position where they rank above average. They spend ninth in the NFL on offense with heavy investments at quarterback, running back and tight end.

Looking Ahead

This could mark the end of the road on this team for a number of Chargers. Contracts expire at the end of this season for Philip Rivers, Antonio Gates and Eric Weddle, all superstar players. Second-tier players Malcolm Floyd and Corey Liuget are free agents, as well.

Of all the players, Weddle will be the one discussed most in the coming months. He has been one of the best safeties in the NFL for some time, but his contract has been rendered obsolete by the younger group of safeties and it is fair to assume he would look for a raise to keep up with the market. Weddle will be 31 in 2016, so this is his best opportunity to maximize his value rather than waiting for free agency. He is not participating in the offseason program because of the Chargers’ reluctance to give him an extension.

Rivers has the most interesting contract situation, perhaps in the entire NFL. There were rumors all spring that the Chargers might trade Rivers, but with the draft having come and gone, that possibility looks remote. There is a good chance Rivers’ next contract will surpass that of Aaron Rodgers, given Ben Roethlisberger’s recent extension. Rivers earned more than Roethlisberger on his prior contract and there is no reason for him to settle for less now. If Rivers plays well and is not extended by mid-season, his contract may become one of the big stories of the season.

Of the big three, Gates is the least concerning. Gates is 35 years old and near the end of his career. While the Chargers could consider keeping him, the fact that he hasn’t been extended should indicate that his career would be over in San Diego this season. He still puts up decent numbers, but those numbers are, in part, because of the lack of talent elsewhere at receiver. He could end up seeking out a one-year deal with another team in hopes of chasing a title, but retirement may also be an option.

It would make sense for the Chargers to extend Liuget now before the market for the 3-4 defensive end dramatically changes next season. He is in the final season of his rookie contract and should not be a candidate for any type of franchise designation, so if they value him, they need to lock him up this summer.

The Chargers will have more than $50 million in cap room next season and should begin to add more to the roster. They need to decide this summer, though, how to handle these pressing contracts. The Bears faced a similar scenario with major free- agent turnover potential in 2013 and rather than being proactive, they let the season play out and then hurt their flexibility by extending the players right before free agency. The longer you wait in the NFL, the worse off you usually are, so those decisions need to be made now or they could end up stuck with the same difficult cap constraints that have hindered them in recent years.

I'm not sure why the article says the Chargers will spend $6.75M on WR this season. Spotrac has it at $10.4M (for Allen, Floyd, Johnson, Inman, Jones, and Pettis).

Otherwise, interesting article.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think the author was referring to 6.75 just for Stevie and Jacoby.

Good piece. Thanks for sharing JWB.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Any homer insight on Manti Te'o for me? He gonna play every down this year? How did he look last year before the injury?

 

[Tau837]

Any homer insight on Manti Te'o for me? He gonna play every down this year? How did he look last year before the injury?

Not sure if you literally mean every down or just most downs. Very unlikely to play every down, for these reasons:

1. He hasn't played more than 538 snaps in a season so far.

2. The Chargers drafted Perryman, who should be expected to be a bigger part of the ILB rotation than backups Gachkar and Conner were previously. Maybe this will be offset if the Chargers bench Butler.

3. Last season, the Chargers played 5 DBs on ~70% of their defensive snaps. If they continue that practice, it could reduce the ILB snaps overall.

That said, he may be the Chargers' best ILB. If healthy, I could see him getting up to 600-700 snaps.

 

[Tau837]

I think the author was referring to 6.75 just for Stevie and Jacoby.

I thought of that, but that doesn't fit either. Johnson and Jones will combine to cost $3.8M against this year's cap. If he meant total contract value, they combined for $16M ($10.5M for Johnson, $5.5M for Jones). Like I said, hard to tell what he meant there.

 

[ldizzle]

Looks like Weddle and the Chargers are going to part ways. I know he's getting older but I'm kind of bummed they couldn't work something out.

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/01/chargers-weddle-no-contract-talk/

 

[Tau837]

Looks like Weddle and the Chargers are going to part ways. I know he's getting older but I'm kind of bummed they couldn't work something out.

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/01/chargers-weddle-no-contract-talk/

:(

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

meh, I have never been a big weddle fan.

 

[Tau837]

meh, I have never been a big weddle fan.

Yeah, why be a fan of a guy who has been All Pro for 5 straight seasons, something only 3 other Chargers (Seau, Alworth, Tomlinson) have achieved? A guy who had the top PFF safety rating in 2 of the past 3 seasons? Who wants that on your favorite team?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I would give very little credence to anything I read in the media about the status of contract negotiations between teams and players. Statements either side makes to the media are not designed give an honest look into the process; with very few exceptions, they are calculated only to gain an advantage of some sort. And they are very often misleading. (If it were otherwise, the negotiators wouldn't be doing their jobs.)

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm having a hard time believing the Chargers are really taking this refuse to negotiate stance. I don't understand the logic behind taking a hard line stance like that with 3 months before the season starts.

Moreover, even if you feel like the returns are going to be diminishing moving forward, if ever you overpay it should be for a guy like Weddle, universally loved by his teammates and the undisputed defensive leader. He's also Phil Rivers best friend on the team.

It just makes no sense from the Chargers standpoint.

 

[Despyzer]

meh, I have never been a big weddle fan.

Yeah, why be a fan of a guy who has been All Pro for 5 straight seasons, something only 3 other Chargers (Seau, Alworth, Tomlinson) have achieved? A guy who had the top PFF safety rating in 2 of the past 3 seasons? Who wants that on your favorite team?

Out of the four of them, I think Weddle would be the only one I'd want on my team this year.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

meh, I have never been a big weddle fan.

Yeah, why be a fan of a guy who has been All Pro for 5 straight seasons, something only 3 other Chargers (Seau, Alworth, Tomlinson) have achieved? A guy who had the top PFF safety rating in 2 of the past 3 seasons? Who wants that on your favorite team?

I just don't see it on the field, I know you love advanced metrics, and it appears Weddle measures well there but his impact on the game isn't as Troy Polumalu or Ed Reed level. Shrug. And he cant cover TEs, anytime we play against a good TE he seems to get torched.

 

[Tau837]

meh, I have never been a big weddle fan.

Yeah, why be a fan of a guy who has been All Pro for 5 straight seasons, something only 3 other Chargers (Seau, Alworth, Tomlinson) have achieved? A guy who had the top PFF safety rating in 2 of the past 3 seasons? Who wants that on your favorite team?

I just don't see it on the field, I know you love advanced metrics, and it appears Weddle measures well there but his impact on the game isn't as Troy Polumalu or Ed Reed level. Shrug. And he cant cover TEs, anytime we play against a good TE he seems to get torched.

Your subjective opinion is not supported by the facts, and we don't have to resort to advanced metrics to see that. You mention Polamalu and Reed, but who is viewed as the best safety in the NFL today? I would guess most people would say Earl Thomas. He has been 1st team All Pro the past 3 seasons and was 2nd team All Pro in 2011, making it 4 straight All Pro seasons. Let's compare them over the past 4 seasons:

Weddle:

4130 snaps

2 sacks

7 QB hits

17 QB hurries

323 tackles

56 assists

121 stops

32 missed tackles

155 times targeted in coverage

98 receptions allowed in coverage

63.0% completion percentage allowed in coverage

882 receiving yards allowed in coverage

5.7 YPA allowed in coverage

3 receiving TDs allowed in coverage

13 interceptions

12 passes defensed

49.99 passer rating allowed in coverage

Thomas:

4129 snaps

0 sacks

3 QB hits

8 QB hurries

286 tackles

50 assists

90 stops

54 missed tackles

132 times targeted in coverage

87 receptions allowed in coverage

66.0% completion percentage allowed in coverage

1080 receiving yards allowed in coverage

8.2 YPA allowed in coverage

7 receiving TDs allowed in coverage

11 interceptions

8 passes defensed

74.05 passer rating allowed in coverage

Weddle is better in every metric other than times targeted and number of receptions allowed... but that really doesn't matter much since he allowed fewer yards and TDs, both by a healthy margin.

Now consider that Thomas plays behind one of the best front 7s in the NFL and alongside Sherman and Chancellor, and compare that to the defense Weddle has had around him over this span. Obviously, that comparison isn't close, and, relative to Thomas, it has been harder for Weddle to excel.

As for your comments about Weddle struggling to cover TEs, I don't know of a site/source that makes it easy to isolate that for comparison, but I used Data Dominator to compare the Chargers and Seahawks defenses against TEs over the past 4 seasons:

Chargers: 413 targets, 268 receptions, 2987 receiving yards, 160 first downs, 23 TDs

Seahawks: 462 targets, 298 receptions, 3192 receiving yards, 182 first downs, 28 TDs

Given that is the entire defense for both, it is hard to draw definitive conclusions about Weddle and Thomas, but obviously both were instrumental in those numbers. I also looked at Weddle's coverage game by game from last season at PFF. Here are the receptions he gave up to TEs:

Week 4 (JAX): Harbor 1/-2/0
Week 5 (NYJ): Cumberland 1/0/0
Week 7 (KC): Kelce 1/5/0
Week 9 (@MIA): Clay 1/24/0
Week 11 (OAK): Rivera 1/5/0
Week 12 (STL): Cook 1/8/0
Week 14 (NE): Gronk 1/11/0
Week 15 (DEN): Thomas 1/30/0

That's it. 8 receptions, 81 receiving yards, 0 TDs. Not more than 1 TE reception in his coverage in any game. 2 big plays allowed, but 0 TDs allowed. And he faced Kelce twice, Gronk once, and Thomas twice, among others. Again, your subjective take seems off base.

 

[BoltBacker]

The Charger run defense definitely reflects the fact the current front office and coaches look at NT and SS as after thoughts.

I am not that surprised that SD plays a nickel defense so often, but imo that makes the DL MORE important, not less. If you have 5 DB's on the field most of the game they should be more likely to be in position to be successful even if they aren't All-Pro's. This is the reason I've said over and over I don't understand all the resources dumped into ILB if you are playing a nickel defense that often. The current DL isn't going to get ANY pass rush so both Ingram and AT&T to be on the field most of the time. What percentage of defensive snaps are two of Te'o/Butler/Perryman going to be on the field together at the same time? Sounds to me like they have a very, very expensive three man rotation for a position that has had waning importance in the league for several years.

I think they are going to need that Weddle $ to completely rebuild one of the worst DL's in the entire league. That's why I thought they should trade him even though he's had a great career in SD and earned every cent of his past contracts. SD simply can't afford the luxury of an All-Pro S when they are missing the playoffs due to play in the trenches. Something tells me Kubiak entering the division isn't going to make the DL look any better when trying to stop the run.

Seems like we agree on a lot of things. The way the league is now (quick hitting spread offenses) defenses can't afford a weak DL. Quarterbacks are throwing the ball effectively within 2 seconds. If the DL isn't getting a push to disrupt the QB's rhythm then there's little the secondary can do - QB's will pick the defense apart.

Look at the Texans - they have spent massive draft capital and money on the DL and are winning despite castoffs at QB.

what is Houston winning?

Well, they are winning just as much with Ryan Fitzpatrick as SD is winning with Rivers. I think his point is if you have Rivers and built up a DL then you would be one of the favorites to reach the SB. I think if you dropped Rivers onto that HOU roster they would be a favorite to win the AFC.

 

[BoltBacker]

Any homer insight on Manti Te'o for me? He gonna play every down this year? How did he look last year before the injury?

This is a good question.

At the time he was drafted many SD fans thought he would be a replacement for Butler, who admittedly has experience a wane in performance over the past few years. Sometimes I think people forget that Butler is only 26 and was playing at a pro-bowl level just a few years ago, and that is light years ahead of anything we've seen from Teo yet.

Since then, I've heard Bucky Brooks(not a big fan) suggest Perryman was drafted to play alongside Butler. I've also heard Daniel Jeremiah(am a big fan) say that he thought it would be a rotation between the three of them. It's also come out that Butler not only had a surgery but had more than one surgery this offseason. I believe it was Jene Bramel on a FBG podcast say he thought Butler was "done". I'm not sure if he meant Butler was done as the stellar player he once was, or if he thinks Butler is done as a starter in the NFL. Or even a player in the NFL as Butler didn't even perform up to the level of an NFL starter last season. Did anyone else listen to that podcast and come away with a different impression from what Bramel said? Jene Bramel is NOT a person that is prone to making statements for a shock factor or exaggerating so what he said really resonated with me. I am also not sure if that's based on his recent decline, or based on the surgeries as Jene is often the medical analyst at FBG.

I thought it was probably Butler/Teo/Perryman on the depth chart but based on what Jene said I would switch that to Teo/Perryman/Butler because I respect his opinion a great deal.

 

[Tau837]

I'm not sure if he meant Butler was done as the stellar player he once was...

 

[Tau837]

What the Hell, Chargers?

We know Weddle has publicly stated he won't participate in OTAs unless the team opens contract negotiations with him. In response, the Chargers brass made some thinly-veiled passive-aggressive comments about being a team player, etc. But the team has publicly stated they plan to open up negotiations with Weddle and work out an extension.

That changed yesterday, when the team stated that they would not be offering him an extension. The team seems to be planning to let Weddle test the Free Agency market and let the market dictate his new contract price. That's quite the gamble, and one that almost cost them Weddle once before.

Then came the news that head coach Mike McCoy gave a speech to the players attending OTAs last Monday that they should basically get used to playing without Eric Weddle, and that Weddle bailed on his team because he's unhappy with his contract.

Really? I mean, really?

I know that NFL contracts, much like stocks, are based on future potential and not past performance. I know that Weddle will be 31 at the end of the season and historically speaking will be entering a period of decline in his performance. I know that Weddle doesn't have much leverage over the Chargers and he's handling this apparent slight in really the only way he can.

But, I also know that Eric Weddle is this team's best, and most reliable, defensive player. A two-time first–team All–Pro and three–time Pro Bowler, Weddle has participated in 98 percent of the Chargers' defensive snaps since his last contract extension in 2011. The team is concerned that as he gets older, Weddle's health will begin to factor into the equation. But there's more to a player than just their playing ability: the leadership and guidance he can provide to other teammates could prove invaluable.

For the team to not only publicly say, "stop asking for a new contract", but then to have to the head coach throw him under the bus, telling the players that Weddle has bailed on his team for not attending voluntary workouts? This whole saga has just made both sides look rather petty and petulant, but the way the team is handling the situation – both privately and publicly – is really making Weddle look like the good guy at this point.

The Chargers are treating Weddle as if he's some common average player demanding more money than he deserves. Trust me, Eric Weddle is more than just an average player, and is one of the few that actually deserves the contract he's demanding.

This isn't high school. The team and coaching staff is better than this. The team does have some valid concerns at this point, but those same concerns apply to Philip Rivers. What makes Weddle so expendable and worth the gamble? If the Chargers really are ready to move on from Eric Weddle, they should be handling it better. But they shouldn't be ready to move on from Weddle, he deserves better.

 

[Tau837]

From Rotoworld:

Chargers signed RE Corey Liuget to a multi-year contract extension.
Liuget seems to be getting paid more for his potential than what he's actually done on the field. He was PFF's 25th-ranked 3-4 end last season, getting negative marks for his run defense and generating only 38 combined sacks, hits, and hurries as a pass rusher. Still, the Chargers view Liuget as a building block for their defense. The former No. 18 overall pick just turned 25 in March.Jun 9 - 4:29 PM

It had been previously reported that he would be extended for $10M+ per year. If so, that puts him in the top 10 highest paid DEs. He hasn't really earned that yet. Hopefully, he turns out more like Weddle than Butler.

 

[Gr00vus]

From Rotoworld:

Chargers signed RE Corey Liuget to a multi-year contract extension.
Liuget seems to be getting paid more for his potential than what he's actually done on the field. He was PFF's 25th-ranked 3-4 end last season, getting negative marks for his run defense and generating only 38 combined sacks, hits, and hurries as a pass rusher. Still, the Chargers view Liuget as a building block for their defense. The former No. 18 overall pick just turned 25 in March.Jun 9 - 4:29 PM

It had been previously reported that he would be extended for $10M+ per year. If so, that puts him in the top 10 highest paid DEs. He hasn't really earned that yet. Hopefully, he turns out more like Weddle than Butler.

Idiots.

 

[Tau837]

Liuget contract details: Corey Liuget signed a 5 year, $51,250,000 contract with the San Diego Chargers, including a $7,500,000 signing bonus, $30,477,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $10,250,000. In 2015, Liuget will earn a base salary of $1,000,000, a signing bonus of $7,500,000 and a roster bonus of $5,477,000. Liuget has a cap hit of $7,977,000 while his dead money value is $19,477,000.

That currently ranks Liuget as follows among defensive ends:

#6 in 2015 cash

#6 in guaranteed money

#7 in contract value

#10 in average contract value

#12 in 2015 cap hit

No worse than #8 in cap hit in 2016-2018 (as far as spotrac rankings go)

Those rankings are for all defensive ends, not just 3-4 DEs. Here are his PFF rankings to date, among 3-4 DEs that took at least 25% of their teams' snaps:

2011:

461 snaps

-15.3 overall (#29 of 32)

+0.3 pass rush (#16 of 32)

-1.0 pass coverage (#29T of 32)

-14.2 run defense (#28 of 32)

-0.4 penalties (#23 of 32)

Poor rookie season.

2012:

733 snaps

+4.0 overall (#8 of 34)

+8.3 pass rush (#6 of 34)

+1.0 pass coverage (#4T of 34)

-4.2 run defense (#16 of 34)

-1.1 penalties (#24 of 34)

Huge step forward in second season.


2013:

730 snaps

-8.0 overall (#37 of 45)

+8.8 pass rush (#10 of 45)

+1.0 pass coverage (#10T of 45)

-13.9 run defense (#41 of 45)

-3.9 penalties (#44 of 45)

Big regression in run defense. Worst year in penalties (6 penalties in just 730 snaps is a high number). Pass rush and coverage stayed essentially constant.


2014:

798 snaps

+1.1 overall (#25 of 47)

+2.7 pass rush (#20 of 47)

+1.0 pass coverage (#11T of 47)

-2.4 run defense (#26 of 47)

-0.2 penalties (#29T of 47)


Another rebound season. He played the most snaps in his career. His run defense rebounded, and he had his best grade in penalties, his two previous trouble areas. Pass coverage remains constant, but pass rush, his biggest strength in previous seasons, dropped off. Meanwhile, teammate Ricardo Mathews outplayed him, at least according to PFF (+3.4 overall).

Overall, it seems that his play has trended up, but not smoothly. Can we trust that the pass rush will rebound without resulting in a drop off in run defense?

He has played in 61 of 64 regular season games. He is 25, so he should still have room to improve and should be entering his prime. He seems to be a good character guy. Those are all good things.

Bottom line, this contract seems well above what he has earned. He is being paid as a top 10 defensive end and a top 3 3-4 defensive end (behind Watt and Campbell).

Is this really what was required to extend him? Does this reflect his actual market value?

The best news about the contract is that all of the guaranteed money is paid in 2015-17, and after 2017 the Chargers would have just $3M in dead money if they released him. So if this turns into another Donald Butler situation, they can move on after 2017.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't think the contract reflects his performence. It's more a reflection of his age and potential, and perhaps more importantly the incredible team need at the position created by the inaction of the team. Had the team not drafted a part time ILB in the second and a #5 CB in the third round they could have drafted a starting NT in the second round and a starting DE in the third round. Had they gone Phillips/Anderson in the draft I think they could have let the Liuget contract play out. But as things currently stand Liuget is the only starting caliber DLman they have and it isn't easy finding an entire new DL next season, especially if they are forced to burn a high pick on a QB next season if they take a step backwards and/or Rivers falls off a cliff next year.

 

[Tau837]

I don't think the contract reflects his performence. It's more a reflection of his age and potential, and perhaps more importantly the incredible team need at the position created by the inaction of the team. Had the team not drafted a part time ILB in the second and a #5 CB in the third round they could have drafted a starting NT in the second round and a starting DE in the third round. Had they gone Phillips/Anderson in the draft I think they could have let the Liuget contract play out. But as things currently stand Liuget is the only starting caliber DLman they have and it isn't easy finding an entire new DL next season, especially if they are forced to burn a high pick on a QB next season if they take a step backwards and/or Rivers falls off a cliff next year.

I agree with all of this. But all of this justifies the decision to extend him. I really don't have any issue with that decision.

My issue is with the contract they gave him. I don't see any of this logic justifying paying him above market value. Or is this (3 years/$30M guaranteed, $10M per year) really his market value?

Usually you expect that extending a player before the last year of his contract means extending him for a lower amount than he would have earned otherwise. Suppose they waited until after the 2015 season, and he played well. Would they have had to pay him even more? Based on what? Meanwhile, had they waited, he might not end up playing well, in which case they could have signed him for less.

 

[Tau837]

The Chargers Team Report has some issues:

1. (Tremblay) It only shows 10 offensive starters. I expect Floyd to be the 11th starter.

2. (Tremblay) It shows 6 WRs making the final roster. I do not believe Pettis will make it. I realize this is a matter of opinion.

3. (Bitonti) 6 backup OL are listed in the report, but it is extremely doubtful the team will carry 11 OL on the final roster. Perhaps this is because it isn't clear which ones will make it, but the discussion doesn't even mention several of the players listed.

4. (Howe) The team report mentions 7 DL without mentioning Ricardo Mathews at all. That is an obvious omission. I expect Mathews to start over Unrein.

5. (Howe) There has been a lot of talk about the team's belief in Carrethers being a primary reason that NT was not a priority this offseason. I expect him to start over Lissemore.

6. (Howe) 6th round draft pick Philon is not listed as a backup DL, but UDFA Botticelli is listed. I expect Philon to make the team, not sure about Botticelli, but he would seem to be a longer shot.

7. (Howe) Tourek Williams is not listed as a backup OLB, but I expect him to make the team.

8. (Howe) It would surprise me if Addae starts over Wilson at SS. Wilson's contract would be pretty expensive for a backup.

9. (Russell) Eddie Royal is still listed as a punt returner but isn't on the team. Jones is listed, so the section has been updated since free agency.

One of the FBG emails this week identified this team report as if it is up to date, and it clearly isn't. Right now, it is a poor quality report.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Evan mathias??

 

[Tau837]

Evan mathias??

I'd be shocked if the Chargers sign Mathis. He wasn't happy with $6M per year from the Eagles, and signing him would force Barksdale to the bench.ETA: And he is 34.

 

[BoltBacker]

Evan mathias??

I'd be shocked if the Chargers sign Mathis. He wasn't happy with $6M per year from the Eagles, and signing him would force Barksdale to the bench.ETA: And he is 34.

The guys at the "Around the NFL" podcast made a pretty solid point the other day. For years now PFF has been ranking Mathis as a top ~3 OG in the NFL. If he really is that good SOMEBODY is going to pay him a great deal. We'll soon see how the actual teams in the NFL view Mathis even if it's just on a one year deal. I'm guessing the NFL isn't nearly in love with Mathis as much as PFF is in love with him. We will see just how on point these PFF rankings are based on the contract he receives.

 

[BoltBacker]

2. (Tremblay) It shows 6 WRs making the final roster. I do not believe Pettis will make it. I realize this is a matter of opinion.

3. (Bitonti) 6 backup OL are listed in the report, but it is extremely doubtful the team will carry 11 OL on the final roster. Perhaps this is because it isn't clear which ones will make it, but the discussion doesn't even mention several of the players listed.

5. (Howe) There has been a lot of talk about the team's belief in Carrethers being a primary reason that NT was not a priority this offseason. I expect him to start over Lissemore.

6. (Howe) 6th round draft pick Philon is not listed as a backup DL, but UDFA Botticelli is listed. I expect Philon to make the team, not sure about Botticelli, but he would seem to be a longer shot.

7. (Howe) Tourek Williams is not listed as a backup OLB, but I expect him to make the team.

8. (Howe) It would surprise me if Addae starts over Wilson at SS. Wilson's contract would be pretty expensive for a backup.

9. (Russell) Eddie Royal is still listed as a punt returner but isn't on the team. Jones is listed, so the section has been updated since free agency.

2. Minor quibble, depends on if classify Jones as a special teams player or as the last receiver on the depth chart.

3. Completely agree, especially since so many of the current OLman can play more than one position.

5. (Shrug) Pretty minor. You can only judge on what we've seen thus far and Carrethers hasn't won the job yet imo. How long did the team want Larry English to win a starting OLB job and it never really happened?

6. Again, I think really it boils down to Liuget and a bunch of guys that would have trouble making the roster on a team with a good DL. It's just a mess of random guys imo. Philon may even start, but that speaks to the level of the guys around him not to how much confidence I have in Philon. For that matter a guy that gets released from STL just before the season starts might be the second best DLman on the SD roster.

7. Agreed, although I think the hope is Emanuel pushes Williams closer to the roster bubble.

8. I don't know why you say that. Wilson counts $2.2mil against the cap, but Robinson counts $2mil against the cap and I don't think anyone thought he was brought in to be a starter. Phillips is making over $2mil and he's a third stringer. Jones is making almost $2mil and he'll be purely a returner unless there are injuries. I don't think Wilsons contract points to him being a starting S in the NFL. Truth is, the team only has one starting NFL safety on the roster.

9. That one is kind of funny.

 

[BoltBacker]

I don't think the contract reflects his performence. It's more a reflection of his age and potential, and perhaps more importantly the incredible team need at the position created by the inaction of the team. Had the team not drafted a part time ILB in the second and a #5 CB in the third round they could have drafted a starting NT in the second round and a starting DE in the third round. Had they gone Phillips/Anderson in the draft I think they could have let the Liuget contract play out. But as things currently stand Liuget is the only starting caliber DLman they have and it isn't easy finding an entire new DL next season, especially if they are forced to burn a high pick on a QB next season if they take a step backwards and/or Rivers falls off a cliff next year.

I agree with all of this. But all of this justifies the decision to extend him. I really don't have any issue with that decision.

My issue is with the contract they gave him. I don't see any of this logic justifying paying him above market value. Or is this (3 years/$30M guaranteed, $10M per year) really his market value?

Usually you expect that extending a player before the last year of his contract means extending him for a lower amount than he would have earned otherwise. Suppose they waited until after the 2015 season, and he played well. Would they have had to pay him even more? Based on what? Meanwhile, had they waited, he might not end up playing well, in which case they could have signed him for less.

I just feel like they bungled the DL so badly that they felt like they couldn't run the risk of what the market value would be for Liuget had a great year. I understand that a guy like Raji took a home town discount to stay with GB, but guys like Fairley and Knighton changed teams and accepted $4-5mil deals. I think Knighton would have accepted a 2yr/$10mil deal instead of a 1yr/$4mil deal, and Fairley would have accepted a 3yr/$18mil deal instead of a 1yr/$5mil to be a rotational player in STL. Start Fairley/Knighton/Liuget this season and let the Liuget contract play out because if he ends up walking you only have ONE hole on the DL to fill. Too late now, but it's the reason I was freaking out when these guys were signing these low 1 year deals. They put themselves in the position to have to overpay Liuget and crossing their fingers he finally lives up to the billing, or even just goes back to playing as well as he did in his second year.

Not saying you disagree with this btw, you and I have been calling for OL/DL all offseason and the OL has been MOSTLY fixed.

 

[BoltBacker]

What is Weddle talking about?

http://abc30.com/sports/eric-weddle-chargers-misrepresenting-contract-talks/788935/

"Weddle said that contrary to what Chargers general manager Tom Telesco stated last week, the two sides have not discussed contract figures."

and goes on to say....

"However, part of the issue for Weddle is security. The last year of his contract is nonguaranteed salary, leaving him vulnerable to having to take a pay cut should the team want to move on before the regular season begins."

...As far as I know there is no way a player "has to take a pay cut". Ever. This is ridiculous. But there is more...

"Weddle said he met in person with Telesco during the second week of organized team activities. His agent David Canter has been dealing directly with San Diego's contract negotiator Ed McGuire."

... so he has met with Telesco and his agent has dealing directly with the contract negotiator but there have been no discussions of a new contract? So what are they talking about, movie reviews? The weather? Is he really saying he hasn't received the contract offer that he wants and is throwing a tantrum, errrrr... holding a press conference? Why the blind desperation? If he feels like he's an All-Pro and can play like one for seasons to come shouldn't he be eager to hit the open market even if he wanted to stay with SD?

 

[Tau837]

If Telesco doesn't think he is worth a contract extension, he could decide he isn't worth the salary he is due this season and cut him. Or threaten to cut him if he doesn't take a pay cut. He has a $10.1M cap hit this season and it would leave $2.6M in dead cap money if he was cut or traded.

Who knows, if Telesco plans to let him go next year, he may envision Wilson and Addae as the starting safeties. If he does, he could just cut to the chase and save $7.5M in cash and cap room for 2015.

Seems unlikely, but it is possible. I certainly wouldn't characterize it as a ridiculous notion based on what is publicly known about Telesco's stance on Weddle's contract situation. I assume that is what Weddle is referencing as his risk for this season.

On the second point, there has obviously been surface level discussion. For example, it was reported by Telesco to the media before the draft that they would wait until after the draft to address his situation. The team probably said similar things to Weddle and his agent. But supposedly no offer of any kind has been made. According to Weddle, he has not provided any figures to the team. So while discussion may have happened, negotiation has not.

As for the press conference, IMO that was brought on by Telesco and particularly McCoy. McCoy threw him under the bus to the team, which is completely inappropriate IMO. Weddle has earned the right to address the media when he reports, and he did. I see nothing wrong with that.

I also don't see any "blind desperation" in Weddle's approach. He is clearly hurt/offended, and he has let it show. That's not the same thing IMO.

 

[BoltBacker]

That doesn't make any sense to me at all. It may have made sense to trade him earlier and replace him with Searcy in FA or draft someone, but to save ~$2mil at this point in the year seems like utter nonsense.

I would be all for SD signing Weddle to an extension along the lines of the one Thomas Davis recently signed to finish his career in Carolina but I seriously doubt Weddle would agree to a similar deal. If the team never made a counter proposal it likely means the starting point presented to them was so far apart there was no point.

I have no idea what McCoy actually said to the team. I know Acee had his typical spin on things but if McCoy told the team that they were moving forward with the players that wanted to be there and focusing on the 2015 season... then good for him. It's his job to get the most out of the players in front of him. Full stop. Acee certainly doesn't have first hand knowledge either, but he does have his typical axe to grind.

 

[Tau837]

That doesn't make any sense to me at all. It may have made sense to trade him earlier and replace him with Searcy in FA or draft someone, but to save ~$2mil at this point in the year seems like utter nonsense.

The team could save $7.5M, not $2M. I'm not advocating it, just illustrating what Weddle could be referencing as his risk in having non-guaranteed money for 2015.

I would be all for SD signing Weddle to an extension along the lines of the one Thomas Davis recently signed to finish his career in Carolina but I seriously doubt Weddle would agree to a similar deal. If the team never made a counter proposal it likely means the starting point presented to them was so far apart there was no point.

Weddle says he and his agent have never provided any figures, thus no starting point. He also said the team has never made any form of offer. Unless proven false, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that is true.

I have no idea what McCoy actually said to the team. I know Acee had his typical spin on things but if McCoy told the team that they were moving forward with the players that wanted to be there and focusing on the 2015 season... then good for him. It's his job to get the most out of the players in front of him. Full stop. Acee certainly doesn't have first hand knowledge either, but he does have his typical axe to grind.

I realize we don't know for sure if McCoy did it, but I could not disagree more with your bolded statement. If he did it, it is absolutely inappropriate, unless he treats all such situations the same (e.g., Gates).

The only reason I could really imagine him doing it is if the team has decided to cut or trade Weddle imminently. Otherwise, it would be counterproductive, as it would hurt McCoy with Weddle and likely with plenty of other players who have a lot of respect for Weddle and recognize the business side of player contracts.

Hopefully, it didn't happen.

 

[tommyGunZ]

The only think stupider than not extending Weddle would be cutting him before the season. I'll cancel my season tickets if they cut their only All Pro.

 

[Tau837]

Weddle-Bolts rift recalls other SD sagas

Weddle read from a prepared statement.


Without naming Chargers GM Tom Telesco, he called him out. He described as misleading the GM's public depiction of discussions of a contract extension.

Weddle said no salary numbers were discussed, ever, between the club and his agent.

Telesco had told radio station 1090 AM last week that "numbers" from Weddle's camp were simply too pricey in the team's view.

 

[Bucky86]

Weddle-Bolts rift recalls other SD sagas

Weddle read from a prepared statement.


Without naming Chargers GM Tom Telesco, he called him out. He described as misleading the GM's public depiction of discussions of a contract extension.

Weddle said no salary numbers were discussed, ever, between the club and his agent.

Telesco had told radio station 1090 AM last week that "numbers" from Weddle's camp were simply too pricey in the team's view.

Isn't it possible both are right? Maybe Weddle's agent said something along the lines, "Make us an offer Mr. Telesco, but it better be somewhere between Earl Thomas and Eric Berry's."

 

[BoltBacker]

Weddle-Bolts rift recalls other SD sagas

Weddle read from a prepared statement.


Without naming Chargers GM Tom Telesco, he called him out. He described as misleading the GM's public depiction of discussions of a contract extension.

Weddle said no salary numbers were discussed, ever, between the club and his agent.

Telesco had told radio station 1090 AM last week that "numbers" from Weddle's camp were simply too pricey in the team's view.

Yeah, this was what I was referencing. Now part of those numbers may not be actual contract $'s but may be a comparison similar to the one you did comparing Weddles performance numbers compared to Earl Thomas... with the inference being he should receive a contract starting at no lower than the one Thomas signed. But that's comparing a player just entering his physical prime to one just leaving his prime so I think that's apple and oranges.

Weddle has said....

""I'm not going to play if I'm not one of the top-tier guys, and playing at a high level, productive and helping the team win," Weddle said. "I see myself playing four, five or six more years. I'm getting better and my body is maturing. I'm getting healthier. Until I see a reason why not, then that's what I'll believe.""

Now if Weddle wanted to sign a contract where he makes $10mil when he's an All-Pro, or the average salary of a Pro-Bowl S when he's a Pro-Bowl S, and the average salary for a starting S when he plays the majority of snaps at S(according to him he would retire if he wasn't top tier anyway so according to him he would never need accept a salary this low), I would be all for that. But I doubt he and his agent would ever accept such a contract. If he truly doesn't want to play if he's not a top tier guy then he shouldn't need any guaranteed $, right? For that matter he would make the most money by simply signing a series of one year contracts if he only wants to play as long as he's a top-tier player. As a top tier player he will get paid each and every off-season as the salary cap continues to rise.

It's worth noting that he sees himself playing four, or five, or SIX more years so as I've been saying all along I didn't think he had any interest in a three year contract.

 

[Tau837]

The only think stupider than not extending Weddle would be cutting him before the season. I'll cancel my season tickets if they cut their only All Pro.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The only thing stupider than not extending Weddle would be extending him for an amount greater than some number we might disagree on, but that we all agree exists.

In any case, there is almost no chance that he won't be extended. This "there have been no negotiations" stuff is just part of the negotiations.

 

[Tau837]

Has Mike McCoy lost the Chargers locker room?

 

[Bucky86]

Has Mike McCoy lost the Chargers locker room?

This is stupid.

 

[B Maverick]

Has Mike McCoy lost the Chargers locker room?

This is stupid.

Do you think Mike McCoy has lost the Chargers locker room?

• 19%No(708 votes)
  
• 17%Not yet(617 votes)
  
• 21%Seems like it's heading that way(776 votes)
  
• 5%Yes(167 votes)
  
• 38%This is stupid(1381 votes)
  

3649 votes total