B Maverick
Footballguy
CBS reporting Chargers TE Antonio Gates is suspended 4 games for violating the NFL substance abuse policy.
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***2015 San Diego Chargers - Offseason News, Notes, & Analysis*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tommyGunZ
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Tau837
Footballguy
I wonder if the Chargers would consider releasing Gates with this news? They could free up almost $6M in cap space and save almost $6M in real dollars. That would really skyrocket Green's fantasy value.
ETA: The Chargers released a statement saying they support him, he is a member of the Chargers family, etc., so the answer seems to be no.
ETA: The Chargers released a statement saying they support him, he is a member of the Chargers family, etc., so the answer seems to be no.
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georg013
Footballguy
I can't imagine this being release-worthy news. Four games is a slap on the wrist during a 16 game season. Gates has done too much for San Diego to get dropped like a cheap whore. I do like what it will do for Keenan Allen and Stevie Johnson. Ladarius Green might get a few extra looks but I can't see him overtaking Gates unless he comes out like gangbusters. I doubt that happens though. So...there is that.
Releasing Gates would send a terrible message to the rest of the team. If you're trying to win, you don't want to discourage players from using steroids.
Tau837
Footballguy
Good point, though the cap hit is still the same.
I wonder if McCoy will throw Gates under the bus like he did Weddle.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Completely disagree with the bolded part. A quarter of the season is a very big deal. Think about the difference between a 10-6 team and a 6-10 team. One may get you in the playoffs the other gets you fired... or should get Telesco fired imo.georg013 said:
That said if any starter was going to get dinged for four games SD may have gotten lucky it was Gates. For whatever reason the coaches need something to encourage them to involve Green in the offense. Hopefully he'll carve out a role that keeps him contributing even after Gates returns. He's also a better blocker so if SD is trying to run more this season it may actually help the running game to have him on the field more. Gates has been around forever and practically has a lifetime of rapport with Rivers so joining the team in week 5 shouldn't cause a hiccup for him. Floyd is more likely to be healthy at the start of the season and Allen/Johnson/Floyd/Woodhead/Green are plenty of targets for Rivers in September. Not trying to pain an overly rosey picture here but if Rivers, or Dunlap, or Liuget, or Ingram, or Weddle would have been out a month SD would have been in much more trouble imo.
Tau837
Footballguy
Plus, it was probably unlikely Gates would play all 16 games anyway, or at least play all of them at 100%. This just pushes his healthiest games to game 5 and afterwards.
POLL: People in San Diego would rather keep Comic-Con over Chargers:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25233246/poll-people-in-san-diego-would-rather-keep-comic-con-over-chargers
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25233246/poll-people-in-san-diego-would-rather-keep-comic-con-over-chargers
BoltBacker
Footballguy
A couple of guys from around the league that may be on the roster bubble that I was hoping SD would draft are Jared Abbrederis(GB)WR and David Yankey(MIN)G/C. I don't think either are bad players, they are just getting caught up in a numbers game on their respective teams. GB has GREAT WR's and MIN had both TJ Clemmings and Tyrus Thompson fall into their laps in the draft. I think both could upgrade what SD has on their roster and may be available for a conditional 7th? Are there any other players on the bubble around the league that you think could improve the SD roster?
I also would love to see SD sign P.Thomas to replace either Brown or Oliver. When Woodhead went down last year it really changed the offense imo and we know Gates is going to miss AT LEAST a quarter of the season. Rivers staying healthy is due in large part to his ability to get rid of the ball quickly and those short targets are critical to that.
Oh, and Justin Hunter is another guy that could probably be had extremely cheap. He made a bone headed decision at an important time in his career but I don't think he's a bad guy. He might be a guy that could be groomed to take over for Malcolm Floyd next season. Seems like a guy that could use a fresh start and I would be curious to see how he responds to playing with a QB like Rivers after the rotation he's been forced to play with during his career.
I also would love to see SD sign P.Thomas to replace either Brown or Oliver. When Woodhead went down last year it really changed the offense imo and we know Gates is going to miss AT LEAST a quarter of the season. Rivers staying healthy is due in large part to his ability to get rid of the ball quickly and those short targets are critical to that.
Oh, and Justin Hunter is another guy that could probably be had extremely cheap. He made a bone headed decision at an important time in his career but I don't think he's a bad guy. He might be a guy that could be groomed to take over for Malcolm Floyd next season. Seems like a guy that could use a fresh start and I would be curious to see how he responds to playing with a QB like Rivers after the rotation he's been forced to play with during his career.
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Tau837
Footballguy
I disagree that Abbrederis is an upgrade over the Chargers WRs. Which receivers, and based on what?
I'd rather have Thomas than Brown, but it is obvious the team likes Brown a lot more than the fans do, so I don't see it happening. I suspect the team feels Oliver and Brown can combine to form a poor man's Woodhead if necessary, and they are content with that.
Are you suggesting that Hunter would make the final roster over Inman? Also, I'd call "stabbing/cutting" worse than a boneheaded decision. No thanks.
I don't know anything about Yankey, but I would be very surprised if Telesco makes another move to acquire OL, barring injury. I think the team feels good about Watt starting with Robinson backing up at C, and they have already upgraded both OG spots, assuming Fluker gets moved to guard to allow Barksdale to start at OT.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
I am normally all in on drafting DB but drafting this guy at this time was a real head scratcher unless they think they can convert him to a S in the near future.
When Charger fans are watching Reyes and Lissemore start on the DL I hope they remember SD could have Henry Anderson or Carl Davis actually on the field making the team better instead of having Mager standing on the sidelines(or off the team completely?).
Still seems like an absolutely crazy draft to me.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
For the longest time weren't you holding up the fact that nobody has signed Crabtree as some sort of proof that he wasn't a valuable option at WR? So why on earth do you think Inman has the potential to be anything special if NFL front offices have only given him the opportunity to catch 12 passes for 158 yards in the NFL since he came out of college three years ago?
Abbederis was drafted, I repeat WAS drafted, by the best WR evaluator in the NFL right now. He seems like a perfect slot guy for a McCoy offense to me.
Hunter was a second round draft choice. I'm not all that concerned about him "stabbing" people with his bare hands moving forward, but I'll fully admit I don't watch many Bruce Lee movies so perhaps that's a bigger risk of happening than I think it does. Hunter is a guy that can go get the ball and seems like the type of player Rivers likes to target on the outside. His cost to acquire would be almost nothing at this point.
IMO both have a better shot at eventually being a starting WR in the NFL than Inman. Inman seems like a guy that hover on an NFL roster bubble, and that's a big improvement from not making an NFL roster at all his first two years. Most consider Allen/Johnson/Floyd as the starters at WR so if just one of those guys get dinged up who should start at WR? The guy nobody in the NFL has wanted? Jones? This team has no depth at WR. NONE.
Bucky86
Footballguy
I went 5 years ago. It's pretty interesting. The ones open to the public are generally pretty vanilla, but it's still fun to watch and worth it to go at least once if you're a fan.
Make sure you check the schedule. They're pretty fun. Usually they'll do some one-on-ones, then seven-on-sevens, then some eleven-on-elevens (no tackling), then special teams. The one-on-ones between the receivers and defensive backs are the best part, IMO.
Cool thanks. This weekend they go Thurs, Fri afternoon, Sat Morn, and Sun afternoon. I am in SD this weekend so wanted to check one out either Fri or Sun afternoon. Looks like I'm going Sunday, hopefully that's not a bad one as its the last one of the week and the one that will probably have the most fans at.Maurile Tremblay said:
Tau837
Footballguy
No. I think I mentioned that in 1 sentence in 1 post, of 10-15 total posts about Crabtree. I also cited a lot of other reasons that I did not want the Chargers to sign Crabtree, with supporting data.
Mainly because I watched how he played to close out the season.
Week 16:
Dontrelle Inman caught 7-of-9 targets for 79 yards Week 16 against the 49ers.
Substituted in for an ineffective Seyi Ajirotutu at halftime, Inman made his presence known early and often in the second half. He seemed to get open at will against the 49ers' secondary, and showed strong hands on several contested catches across the middle including a 4th-down conversion on the game-tying drive. A former CFL star, the 25-year-old Inman is a good bet to carve out a role in 2015 in the Chargers' nondescript receiver corps. He is an excellent add in Dynasty formats. Sun, Dec 21, 2014 01:00:00 AM
Week 17:
Dontrelle Inman caught five passes for 79 yards in Week 17 against the Chiefs.
Inman was the No. 3 receiver with Keenan Allen sidelined. He had at least 70 yards over the final two games and will be a candidate for a bigger role next season. A former CFL star, Inman should return as one of San Diego's top four wideouts.Sun, Dec 28, 2014 06:16:00 PM
Rivers was quoted as saying Inman won the SF game for the Chargers.
I also know Inman had a good preseason last year and a good training camp this year.
On your last point, as I already showed above, Inman is excellent depth. He already proved that by filling in and excelling last year in the exact same situation (Allen out) you are worrying about here. Did you not watch those games?
I couldn't disagree more with your take, so we can agree to disagree about it.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I've moved my opinion over to the "Chargers need to get Rivers signed to an extension" camp. He needs to retire a Charger. He hasn't missed a start in 8 years! I just wish they'd put a better team around him. He should have a super bowl win by now. I'm still mildly pessimistic about the offensive line, but I'm fairly certain the defensive line, and possibly the whole front seven is going to get abused regularly this season.
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Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
It's all good. They've been working with Rivers to get the ball out EVEN QUICKER this year. And that secondary can cover for hours.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think this is a big season for the franchise and it's kind of at a crossroads.
- if the team does well in the playoffs I can see extending Rivers because he must have played well and the team is on the upswing. I still wouldn't reward him with a Big Ben multi-SB contract unless he actually wins a SB though. If that's what his agent wants then just franchise him. More than once if need be.
- if they fail to make the playoffs no way I extend Rivers at an extended franchise contract to continue churning in the middle of the standings. Franchise him and draft a guy in a stronger QB '16 draft. Depends on how badly you miss the playoffs but I would keep McCoy and replace Telesco. Finally a guy that builds the OL and CB positions BUT if they miss the playoffs again it will be because he is obsessed with wasting so many resources on LB/RB that apparently aren't working.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The thing that's the most unfathomable to me is that they continue to stick with the 3-4 but haven't had an even above average NT since Williams. That's pretty much the most important part of that whole defensive scheme and they've been attempting to get by with journeymen or less at the spot. Either commit some serious resources there or change the defensive scheme. This limbo they're in with that is idiotic.
I'm not saying it's easy to find a high quality 3-4 NT. I'm sure that's among the major reasons most teams don't run the 3-4. But if you're running a 3-4 you have to give more effort to find one than they have.
I'm not saying it's easy to find a high quality 3-4 NT. I'm sure that's among the major reasons most teams don't run the 3-4. But if you're running a 3-4 you have to give more effort to find one than they have.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
IF SD misses the playoffs, you have to assume the DL as a whole is a huge reason why. Worse still, it will reflect Liuget still isn't playing like a probowler despite the fact Telesco is paying him as if he were.
Really, don't Liuget and Gordon have to play like probowlers for Telesco to look competent? He really gave up a ton of resources for those two. The strength of the Gordon pick(S!) will ride almost completely on how many TD's he scores. I think he'll have 1k+ combined yards but SD really needs double digit TD's... especially with Gates sitting the first quarter of the season. I like the thought of finally having a back that is capable of picking up chunks of yardage at a time, but he has a reputation of dancing too often for no gain or a loss. Not sure if that spells short yardage success in the NFL. Fingers crossed that he and Watt come through!
Really, don't Liuget and Gordon have to play like probowlers for Telesco to look competent? He really gave up a ton of resources for those two. The strength of the Gordon pick(S!) will ride almost completely on how many TD's he scores. I think he'll have 1k+ combined yards but SD really needs double digit TD's... especially with Gates sitting the first quarter of the season. I like the thought of finally having a back that is capable of picking up chunks of yardage at a time, but he has a reputation of dancing too often for no gain or a loss. Not sure if that spells short yardage success in the NFL. Fingers crossed that he and Watt come through!
Tau837
Footballguy
Heard the Cannons talking about a crazy L.A. scenario -- Chargers and Raiders merge into one team and move to L.A., with the Rams also moving to L.A. Then the NFL expands back to 32 teams by putting an expansion team in London. I know this is a crazy idea on many fronts, but it is fun to think about the superteam that would result from combining the two franchises.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
JetMaxx
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Tau837
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
The Chargers may finish first in their division this year as it is. Even if they cut all Raiders players except Cooper and Mack, each carrying only about a $4.2M cap hit, those two alone would give them a shot at being the best team in the AFC. But of course it isn't really viable, just fun to think about adding those guys.
Fun concept. I remember a fantasy league where each roster consisted solely of players from three drafted NFL teams. That was a fun format.
Of course in the real world, this would translate into one team being contracted out of existence, with its talent pool being dispersed in some fashion amongst all 31 remaining teams. Or perhaps a core of them being dispersed to the expansion team.
We know it won't happen, although I recall MLB giving actual thought to this sort of scenario a decade ago.
Of course in the real world, this would translate into one team being contracted out of existence, with its talent pool being dispersed in some fashion amongst all 31 remaining teams. Or perhaps a core of them being dispersed to the expansion team.
We know it won't happen, although I recall MLB giving actual thought to this sort of scenario a decade ago.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Meh, I'm still holding out hope they either start signing aliens that have amazing powers under our sun and such little gravity that they dominate all these puny humans. OR they build a time machine and bring back a few players from 2115 that are much more advanced than todays players. I'm not certain which of the three scenarios is less likely.
Tau837
Footballguy
I agree the Chargers are talented enough to win the AFC. Two keys:
1. Will they avoid key injuries and injuries concentrated at a single position, like last year's C and RB injuries?
2. Will they get AFC Championship caliber coaching? IMO the jury is still out on how good McCoy is, particularly in game.
I'm also a bit concerned about the fact that they have 5 road games kicking off at 1 pm EST, but that shouldn't be as big a factor as the two factors above.
1. Will they avoid key injuries and injuries concentrated at a single position, like last year's C and RB injuries?
2. Will they get AFC Championship caliber coaching? IMO the jury is still out on how good McCoy is, particularly in game.
I'm also a bit concerned about the fact that they have 5 road games kicking off at 1 pm EST, but that shouldn't be as big a factor as the two factors above.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
You two are nuts.
If everything breaks right they might win the division/make the playoffs, but entire teams would have to cease to exist before I'd consider the Chargers talented enough to win the AFC at this point.
1st preseason game further emphasized my displeasure with how they chose to utilize their 1st round + additional pick. Oliver and Woodhead plus guys are good enough to form a running game in the modern day NFL. Meanwhile the defensive front seven looked lousy. I didn't see much depth to get excited about either. 51 and 52 on D had a couple of nice plays. 8 on returns looked pretty spry (which, if he keeps that up makes the Jacoby Jones signing not so super).
If everything breaks right they might win the division/make the playoffs, but entire teams would have to cease to exist before I'd consider the Chargers talented enough to win the AFC at this point.
1st preseason game further emphasized my displeasure with how they chose to utilize their 1st round + additional pick. Oliver and Woodhead plus guys are good enough to form a running game in the modern day NFL. Meanwhile the defensive front seven looked lousy. I didn't see much depth to get excited about either. 51 and 52 on D had a couple of nice plays. 8 on returns looked pretty spry (which, if he keeps that up makes the Jacoby Jones signing not so super).
Tau837
Footballguy
I wasn't in favor of the Gordon trade/pick nor of the Jones signing, as I posted in this thread. Or, for that matter, of the Perryman or Mager picks. But this is the team they have, so I've moved on.
IMO there are many reasons for optimism: OL should be significantly better, which will have a beneficial ripple effect on the rest of the offense; running game should be better; passing game should be better with better/healthier targets; DL should be deeper; ILB play should be better, which means the run defense should be better; secondary should be better if healthier; return game should be better. In some of these cases, 'better' is a low bar, but, nevertheless, it appears they will be better at most elements of the game.
IMO the biggest question marks entering the season are OLB play, pass rush, and coaching. And injuries are obviously always key, but those cannot be predicted.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Besides the fact that Woodhead and Oliver can't handle full loads, they also aren't players whom opponents have to game plan around. Perhaps Woodhead a bit on 3rd down in passing situations, but he's not a true threat. Gordon has the potential to be an elite guy who forces defenses to stop cheating against the pass.
If Rivers has a monster in he backfield, this offense can be dynamic. And the defense should be top 5ish if Verrett and Ingram stay health and become the stars everyone is predicting.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Their front 7 on defense and their oline isnt nearly good enough to win anything.
Tau837
Footballguy
Yeah, on my phone right now so can't look it up, but pretty sure Rivers has been an awesome passer off play action in his career. Have to have a run threat to make that work.
Tau837
Footballguy
Disagree on OL. I expect them to go from bottom 5 OL last season to top 15 OL this season.
Agree the front 7 is the biggest weakness on the team, but it could be improved this year. We'll see. If not, you are probably right that they won't win any championships.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, it should easily be better this year. Still frustrating that it could have been better yet so easily. I give Telesco credit for addressing this need in a way better than AJ ever did. The idea of finally seeing Rivers finally perform behind an average OL is exciting... unless of course there's just one injury. Then it's back to "normal". (SIGH)Just Win Baby said:
BoltBacker
Footballguy
GunZ, I love your enthusiasm and optimism. I don't really think anyone can be a "monster" in the backfield when the high side of expectations is ~50% of offensive snaps.tommyGunZ said:
I think there also may be more skepticism with regards to Ingram being a star by "everyone" than you are saying. At this point I would just be happy with an above average player for 16 games.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I guess I don't understand.
Rivers is above criticism for lack of playoff success because his supporting cast has been so weak, right? But McCoy is still in doubt because......? Seems to me McCoy stayed very competitive IN DENVER with an awful SD team. Shareece Wright was the #1 CB. The DL has been a disaster.... since Leslie O'Neal? Iron man Mathews was only available to carry the ball 5 times(oddly enough). How McCoy coaxed that team that deep in the playoffs was impressive to me.
McCoy isn't the one who constructed the OL last year. He hasn't been the one pouring TONS of resources into RB/LB every season to amass one of the most mediocre group of players at those positions in the NFL. To me Telesco is much more in question than McCoy. It's funny, he has DIFFERENT blind spots than AJ, but seems to have just as many blind spots.
Tau837
Footballguy
On McCoy, I posted this after the season:
IMO the jury remains out on McCoy. He has proven he can take over a team that was below average in talent and elevate it to just above average. He has proven he can gameplan and coach the team to upset victories and disappointing losses. He has shown to date that he is a very conservative in-game coach, which IMO hurts the team.
We don't know yet if McCoy can build upon the initial promise of the 2013 season. It may be that the injuries to OL and RB last season undermined his chances, and without them maybe the team would have won a few more games. Or maybe they wouldn't have. We don't know yet.
With regard to your bolded comment, I assume you are referring to 2013. Yes, that win at Denver in 2013 was impressive. But ultimately, he lost at Denver in the playoffs a month later, and then wasn't able to remain competitive against Denver in 2014. Overall, he is 1-4 against Denver, and both 2014 losses were by 12 or more points. I don't see that anything was proven against Denver in 2013.
As for Rivers, I don't agree that he should be above criticism. His play has slipped from regular season to postseason, and that is definitely on him more than on his coaching and supporting cast. I do think his team could have been coached better and played better at times, which could have made the difference in a couple more postseason wins and chances to advance further, which, in turn, would have given Rivers more postseason chances to excel. I also think that for the most part the teams that advance in the postseason have better coaching and supporting casts than Rivers has typically had. It's both.
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Tau837
Footballguy
Per Ian Rapaport:
I suspect there will be a lot of criticism of this contract, since people will say he hasn't justified it in the postseason. I think he has proven he is worth it. Rivers will be 38 if he plays to the end of this extension. Brady just completed his age 37 season with a Super Bowl, and Peyton just completed his age 38 season by playing extremely well overall, though he got hurt and faded down the stretch. The point is, nowadays top QBs can play to that age.
I assume the contract is structured so that the guaranteed money is in signing bonus and the base salary in the first 2 years of the extension. Say $30M signing bonus, $17M salary in 2016 and $18M salary in 2017. That would be $65M guaranteed. That would mean the Chargers could release him after 2017 and would face about a $12M cap hit in his prorated bonus or after 2018 for about a $6M cap hit. IMO that seems like a reasonable risk for the franchise, especially considering that the cap will be quite a bit higher by 2018 than it is today.
This should ensure that Rivers retires as a Charger. It also gives Telesco a couple of years to find a replacement to groom, no sense of urgency there.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
So is the only example of a QB playing like a franchise QB through his age 38 season or older Brett Favre?
Tau837
Footballguy
You don't think Peyton played like a franchise QB last season? If you don't, perhaps you should define what you mean by franchise QB.
Kurt Warner played well in his final season at age 38.
Warren Moon was a Pro Bowler at age 38, 39, and 41.
Elway was a Pro Bowler at age 38 and his team won the Super Bowl.
Staubach, Young, and Gannon all played really well at age 37, but it ended there.
That was just from a cursory search, there could be some others who made it or come close. But the further back you go, the more apples and oranges it becomes. Today's training methods, medicine, and the rules of the game make it easier for QBs to play effectively to older ages than in previous decades/eras. The lack of a long list of QBs doing so in the past doesn't really mean much.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
You mean the season that inspired Elway to ask Manning to cut his pay in half? As it is Elway was unwilling to give Manning "Cutler Money" based on how he looked last year. I think paying anyone $20+mil to hobble down the stretch and can't throw a 30 yard pass by the playoffs would be excessive, yes. If Manning was only injured and when healthy would be in '13 form... then why the paycut? Or do you think we have a better idea of Mannings health/ability/worth than Elway has access to?
Warner 3700/26/14.... meh, I guess if you consider Andy Dalton as a true franchise QB. I don't think many people think Dalton is a $20+million man.
I'll give you Moon though, forgot just how well he played in MIN. So the entire list of guys who have played at a franchise level to the end of the season(the END of the season is what matters if you are trying to win a SB, no?) is:
Moon
Favre
Those don't seem like good odds to me. I don't see the point but it doesn't piss me off nearly as much as it's probably going to piss off Weddle. If I was Telescoe I wouldn't be worrying what dead money is on the salary cap in four years either. In a lot of ways it seems like his moves are just to avoid short term criticism by your average person in the stands. And we know how that ends.
