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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

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Also - it is dumb to have playoffs decided by a tie-break, IMO. For seeding purposes, sure, but if two or more teams finish with the same record for the last playoff spot(s), they should play each other for the spot.

 
thecatch said:
Hield is actually decent. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a league average starter at the 2, maybe a plus bench guy. Doesn't belong in that group. 
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He's definitely played well with Sacramento but he played equally as terrible in NO. I suppose I should hold off burying him until next season.

 
TobiasFunke said:
. If I was a Heat fan I'd be pretty pissed.
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:lmao:  What? Cavs just rested Lebron, Kyrie, Thompson against them. (Heat barely eeked out an OT win at home) Now Wizards resting their whole team. They couldn't be gifted a chance any more.

If want to be pissed about something, be pissed about an 11-30 start.

 
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Kev4029 said:
He's definitely played well with Sacramento but he played equally as terrible in NO. I suppose I should hold off burying him until next season.
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Even using his season long totals, he's shooting 39% from deep on 4.6 attempts per game. He's a bad but not horrific defender. His handle needs some work. But there's nothing that suggests to me that he's a total bust. 

 
brogdon is a brohan that is for sure that guy is really good and will be a great pg for years to come for the bangos brohans i have to say it watch out for the bucks they are young are defending again and have a great core that is getting better take that to the bank bromigos 

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
:lmao:  What? Cavs just rested Lebron, Kyrie, Thompson against them. (Heat barely eeked out an OT win at home) Now Wizards resting their whole team. They couldn't be gifted a chance any more.

If want to be pissed about something, be pissed about an 11-30 start.
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I suppose that part of it is true, I hadn't considered the gift of that Cavs game. But they would have been favored at home against an unmotivated Wiz team anyway.  The part that sucks for them is that those teams are resting for cause, but the Nets are resting for no reason at all as far as I can tell and that impacts the Heat negatively.

Also like the article said I'd just rather see them in the playoffs than the listless teams they're chasing.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I suppose that part of it is true, I hadn't considered the gift of that Cavs game. But they would have been favored at home against an unmotivated Wiz team anyway.  The part that sucks for them is that those teams are resting for cause, but the Nets are resting for no reason at all as far as I can tell and that impacts the Heat negatively.

Also like the article said I'd just rather see them in the playoffs than the listless teams they're chasing.
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If a Nets team rest players, and no one can tell the difference, did they really rest players?

 
thecatch said:
Even using his season long totals, he's shooting 39% from deep on 4.6 attempts per game. He's a bad but not horrific defender. His handle needs some work. But there's nothing that suggests to me that he's a total bust. 
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He was really bad in NO. I haven't watched him in Sacramento, but statistically, he is a completely different player than he was before the trade. So I guess I'm just tainted from his play for the first 2/3 of the season. That player was a total bust. The Sacramento version is already a viable starter.

 
the moops said:
Lin, Lopez, and Booker resting against Bulls

Wall and company likely to rest agianst Heat

Hawks likely to rest against Pacers

What a ####show
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:lol:  

Howard, Millsap, Schroeder, Bazemore, Hardaway Jr all resting. At least the 3 teams vying for the prestigious 7/8 spots in East are on equal ground tonight.

 
The Heat was 30-11 in its last 40 games,after an 11-30 start.  But it wasn't enough as they lose the tie-breaker against the Bulls for the last playoff spot. Whiteside will be the NBA rebound leader and James Johnson is a top contender for most improved. They lost some close games at the end of the season - Dion Waiters, who missed the last 13 games, would've made the difference in some of those games for his defense and hot-cold shooting.  The team will likely lose both Waiters and James Johnson who've earned long-term contracts.

 
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A year ago I brought up some players that had more win shares than Isiah Thomas (the old one that ruins leagues and franchises). Now that the season is winding up, here are all the future HOFers who passed Thomas in career win shares (80.7) this year:

Joe Johnson (81.8)
David West (82.4)
Richard Jefferson (82.9)
Steph Curry (84.11)
LaMarcus Aldridge (86.6)
Andre Iguodala (88.9)
James Harden (91.0)

Next season Westbrook (80.2), Millsap (79.6), Randolph (79.6), and maybe Deron Williams (77.3) and David Lee (76.1) will pass him. The following year Kevin Love (70.6), Al Horford (70.3), Kyle Lowry (69.5), Marc Gasol (69.5), DeAndre Jordan (66.6) will likely pass him. Little Isaiah Thomas is over half way to catching him with 45.2 WS, and already has an extra vowel.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I like these across the board except maybe with Gobert.  Jazz are only one spot behind the Warriors in defensive efficiency (3rd and 2nd), so I don't see how team performance can separate the two. But I don't watch nearly enough of either team to make an informed decision. All I know if I haven't seen someone change the game like Gobert does every time he's on the floor.  I'd be curious to see on/off defensive numbers for each guy.

Did you cut and paste these from somewhere or are they yours?
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I'm obviously a homer but Draymond is...

1st in defensive win shares 

1st in defensive rating (99.3/100 possessions, 97 when Durant was out, 2nd Gobert)

1st in steals/game (Gobert 1st in blocks/game)

T-1st in defensive fg% at the rim (Gobert)

2nd in deflections (Gobert defends the most shots in the paint).

It's a super close margin. Gobert without a doubt is the best interior defender in the league and Leonard is better on the perimeter, but Draymond is the MOST COMPLETE defender in the NBA. He's the no doubt about it DPOY for me.

MVP:

1.Kawhi Leonard. 

2. Harden

3. Westbrook

4. LBJ

5. Greek Freak

COY D'Antoni

6th man ??? Eh. 

MiP Greek Freak

ROY Eh. Brogdon if had too.

 
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Any chance the NBA would ever consider 6 playoff teams per conference, with each of the top 2 seeds getting a first round bye (maybe with putting a couple back-to-backs in the first round)? I know there's a near zero chance they give up 4 playoff series' a season, but if they really care about the mass DNP-CD's, it seems like it may help with relatively little lost. The series' that you give up to do this are typically short and with nobody watching anyway.

I think many top teams (and that's all we really care about) would choose to go for 10 days off to start the Playoffs, and auto 2nd round berth with a potentially worn out 2nd round opponent over sitting a bunch of games in the regular season.

It would make the regular season and Playoffs both much more interesting. I think it could have an even bigger impact than even shortening the season (which wouldn't happen of course). 

 
pollardsvision said:
Any chance the NBA would ever consider 6 playoff teams per conference, with each of the top 2 seeds getting a first round bye (maybe with putting a couple back-to-backs in the first round)? I know there's a near zero chance they give up 4 playoff series' a season, but if they really care about the mass DNP-CD's, it seems like it may help with relatively little lost. The series' that you give up to do this are typically short and with nobody watching anyway.

I think many top teams (and that's all we really care about) would choose to go for 10 days off to start the Playoffs, and auto 2nd round berth with a potentially worn out 2nd round opponent over sitting a bunch of games in the regular season.

It would make the regular season and Playoffs both much more interesting. I think it could have an even bigger impact than even shortening the season (which wouldn't happen of course). 
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Zero chance 

 
pollardsvision said:
Any chance the NBA would ever consider 6 playoff teams per conference, with each of the top 2 seeds getting a first round bye (maybe with putting a couple back-to-backs in the first round)? I know there's a near zero chance they give up 4 playoff series' a season, but if they really care about the mass DNP-CD's, it seems like it may help with relatively little lost. The series' that you give up to do this are typically short and with nobody watching anyway.

I think many top teams (and that's all we really care about) would choose to go for 10 days off to start the Playoffs, and auto 2nd round berth with a potentially worn out 2nd round opponent over sitting a bunch of games in the regular season.

It would make the regular season and Playoffs both much more interesting. I think it could have an even bigger impact than even shortening the season (which wouldn't happen of course). 
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No.

 
I guess I've heard it suggested in a couple places that dropping a few regular season games might be plausible because of the crazy tv money and the theory that less resting/more scarcity would increase fan interest enough to offset the loss of the additional games.  But still seems unlikely.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Sorry about the first round exit brochacho.
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cliffy we will see although the raptors have had our number for about the last four years it is pretty bad but hey this is a different team finally with middleton back and jablownknee out so we will see ps fear the deer take that to the bank my fine dinosaur northern brohan 

 
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mvp westbrook you cant break a record like that one and drag that team to that record and not get it most improved anteaternintendo best rookie brohangodon six man goes to deandre jordan he has the best year by a guy who wears numero sixo take that to the swc scouting report bank bromigos 

 
Miles Bridges is probably going to return to school. He was almost a certain lottery pick and possible top 10 pick. That is rarely a good choice.

 
Kev4029 said:
Miles Bridges is probably going to return to school. He was almost a certain lottery pick and possible top 10 pick. That is rarely a good choice.
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For him it might be though.  At best he's slotted in at 10-11.  Besides for Porter Jr and Doncic (who might wait another year anyway), the '18 class isn't that great with top-tier talent (though it is deepish).  He could move up to 3-5 fairly easily (especially since he's more of a stretch 4 and the Bamba's/ Ayton's of the world are more pure 4s/5s which are becoming a dime a dozen in the NBA) which is about the delta you want to make it worthwhile to go back. 

 
pollardsvision said:
Any chance the NBA would ever consider 6 playoff teams per conference, with each of the top 2 seeds getting a first round bye (maybe with putting a couple back-to-backs in the first round)? I know there's a near zero chance they give up 4 playoff series' a season, but if they really care about the mass DNP-CD's, it seems like it may help with relatively little lost. The series' that you give up to do this are typically short and with nobody watching anyway.

I think many top teams (and that's all we really care about) would choose to go for 10 days off to start the Playoffs, and auto 2nd round berth with a potentially worn out 2nd round opponent over sitting a bunch of games in the regular season.

It would make the regular season and Playoffs both much more interesting. I think it could have an even bigger impact than even shortening the season (which wouldn't happen of course). 
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As a Celtics fan I have a feeling the 1 v. 8 could be interesting this year.  I love the Celts but I'm just not convinced they're they type of team that will shine in the playoffs (I don't think Chicago is that great either so the Celts should win but it would be a smaller upset than 7 over 2 or 6 over 3 IMO).  If I had to rank my top 3 East teams right now it would be Cleveland, Toronto and then Boston.  Good news for the Celts is they avoid Cleveland/Toronto until the eastern finals if they make it that far.  Pretty fun though who would have guessed #1 seed and best odds for the #1 pick in the same season.

 
Sammy3469 said:
For him it might be though.  At best he's slotted in at 10-11.  Besides for Porter Jr and Doncic (who might wait another year anyway), the '18 class isn't that great with top-tier talent (though it is deepish).  He could move up to 3-5 fairly easily (especially since he's more of a stretch 4 and the Bamba's/ Ayton's of the world are more pure 4s/5s which are becoming a dime a dozen in the NBA) which is about the delta you want to make it worthwhile to go back. 
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i think i would rather go to a 10 or 11 and be on a good team with a chance to shine and make bank than taking a risk of getting hurt or having a stink bomb of a  year to go in the top couple of spots and play on the craptacular teams that will be there take that to the thoughts swc thinks bank brohans 

 
great title cappy made me laugh out loud this morning you the brohan take that to the bank 

 
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SWC said:
i think i would rather go to a 10 or 11 and be on a good team with a chance to shine and make bank than taking a risk of getting hurt or having a stink bomb of a  year to go in the top couple of spots and play on the craptacular teams that will be there take that to the thoughts swc thinks bank brohans 
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Problem with that is he was pencilled into a potential Hornets/Sacramento.  Neither of those teams are "good".  Monetarily it's a 6-7 million dollar difference over the first 3 years.  The jump from 10-12 to 3-5 is about where it makes sense to go back.  One of the reasons we haven't seen kids do it recently is none of the 10-12 kids one year would project to be 3-5 the following year.  This year's different though since the '17 class is much deeper at the top than the '18 class after Doncic/Porter and he's also playing the continued move to stretch 4s.  It's a gamble, but probably not an insane one.    

 
Sammy3469 said:
For him it might be though.  At best he's slotted in at 10-11.  Besides for Porter Jr and Doncic (who might wait another year anyway), the '18 class isn't that great with top-tier talent (though it is deepish).  He could move up to 3-5 fairly easily (especially since he's more of a stretch 4 and the Bamba's/ Ayton's of the world are more pure 4s/5s which are becoming a dime a dozen in the NBA) which is about the delta you want to make it worthwhile to go back. 
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FWIW, I think DraftExpress has him at 6 in their 2018 mock. If we use the salary of last year's 11th pick over the first four years ($11.2 million) vs the first three years of the 6th pick of the draft ($11.0 million) it's pretty much a wash, maybe he makes a little extra with whatever the raise would be from one year to the next with the same draft slot. But in what would be year 5 if he was drafted this year could be a massive disparity, possibly over $20 million in that year alone, plus he would could be behind in every raise for the rest of his career.

 
In actual news, Justin Jackson is officially entering the draft and hiring an agent. 

I like him a lot, someone might be lucky and find themselves with a Khris Middleton type in the middle of the first round.

 
Kev4029 said:
FWIW, I think DraftExpress has him at 6 in their 2018 mock. If we use the salary of last year's 11th pick over the first four years ($11.2 million) vs the first three years of the 6th pick of the draft ($11.0 million) it's pretty much a wash, maybe he makes a little extra with whatever the raise would be from one year to the next with the same draft slot. But in what would be year 5 if he was drafted this year could be a massive disparity, possibly over $20 million in that year alone, plus he would could be behind in every raise for the rest of his career.
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I won't be surprised if he goes before Ayton and Williams (Bamba might be a different story though since he projects to be a freakish rim protector) though with the way the NBA is going.  If he gets in the top 5 that changes the math especially if he knew for instance that the Kings were very interested in him.  

 
Sammy3469 said:
Problem with that is he was pencilled into a potential Hornets/Sacramento.  Neither of those teams are "good".  Monetarily it's a 6-7 million dollar difference over the first 3 years.  The jump from 10-12 to 3-5 is about where it makes sense to go back.  One of the reasons we haven't seen kids do it recently is none of the 10-12 kids one year would project to be 3-5 the following year.  This year's different though since the '17 class is much deeper at the top than the '18 class after Doncic/Porter and he's also playing the continued move to stretch 4s.  It's a gamble, but probably not an insane one.    
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i agree that sactown is sort of a crapola show but i think hornets have some potential but yeah that is a lot of dough i agree i hope it works out for him for the best honestly i hate to see a kid right on the precipice and then lose it but if he does fall i hope the bucks get him take that to the bank bromigo

 
ps i gotta say after initially being not so hot on tron master i now think the bucks may have something there i admit it when i am wrong because that is what the path of the brohan requires so i am just puttin that out there take that to the bank brohans 

 
Bull Dozier said:
Correlation does not equal causation.
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Sure, good point.  But it's a four year trend that almost perfectly coincides with when teams started using DNP-Rest regularly- you can pretty much pinpoint the start of the trend to the 2012-13 season, when Stern fined the Spurs after they did it for a national game but then he retired the next season and everyone started doing it because Silver took a different approach. And I assume the data isn't a steady downward trend over decades, which would mean we can't just attribute this to general improvements in technology or travel or whatever.

I'm open to any other theory, but at first glance this seems like more than a coincidence.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sure, good point.  But it's a four year trend that almost perfectly coincides with when teams started using DNP-Rest regularly- you can pretty much pinpoint the start of the trend to the 2012-13 season, when Stern fined the Spurs after they did it for a national game but then he retired the next season and everyone started doing it because Silver took a different approach. And I assume the data isn't a steady downward trend over decades, which would mean we can't just attribute this to general improvements in technology or travel or whatever.

I'm open to any other theory, but at first glance this seems like more than a coincidence.
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That seems like a big assumption to me, but I would agree that knowing the longer term trend is key to getting a better idea of the full picture.

 
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