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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (4 Viewers)

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Kev4029 said:
Glad to see that Derrick Rose has become a little more grounded after have some difficulties the last half decade.
 
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The Knicks making the playoffs makes them a super team, given their recent history of sucking, amirite? 

 
saintfool said:
True story:

I remember in my YMCA youth league when my coach got it in his head that i wanted to be a better shooter. we practiced for like two weeks at his direction. drill after drill to improve the shooting with his encouragement and support. i was mediocre at best. 

last game of the season and we're without a win still. the other team comes to the gym and they're wearing the same color t-shirts as we are. the decision is made to play "shirts vs skins", it will be determined by a coin toss and, of course, we lose. We're skins which makes it all the more pitiful somehow, seeing a team of scrawny 10-year old boys playing the worst basketball in the history of the game without shirts and short 80's shorts. 

And yet, by some miracle, the game is almost tied in the final seconds. probably something like 10-9 given how awful we were. but in the final seconds, i am fouled and told to shoot free throws. Coach reminds me of all the practices, the drills, the progress I've made over the last two weeks. He tells me that I've got this and 2 easy free throws will get us the first - and only - win of the season. The futility of our season will be washed away with this lone victory now. 

Coach's words of encouragement in my brain, I step to the line. Everyone in the gym - dozens of parents, kids, and my friends - falls silent and I feel them staring at my scrawny, shirtless body as do a practice dribble or two. It's just me out there and I'm nervous but I feel like I can do this. I move to release the ball from my fingertips when I hear an adult's voice booming in the cavernous gym....

"YOU SUCK!"

*clank*

The ball bounces listlessly off the rim and it's followed by a commotion. Parents and coaches murmuring behind me about the heckler. I am shaken and the second attempt is even more off than the first. They win, we lost, and the season ends. The opposing team celebrates, parents cheer and my teammates dissolve into the scene walking away with their families while I'm left to stand by the free throw line alone and shirtless. 

I got pizza with my family later at a place off Hillsboro Rd called "Shakey's". 
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brilliant

Shakey's ftmfw 

 
Dion Waiters has agreed to a one-year deal with the Heat.
It's only worth $2.9 million, so Waiters wasn't anywhere near the $18 million per seasons. Waiters should get plenty of minutes with the Heat and could actually start over Josh Richardson. Waiters hasn't shot the ball well in his career, making just 41.1 percent with a downward trend. He'd only be worthy of a late-round pick.

 
 
Source: Jon Krawczynski on Twitter




C.J. McCollum and the Trail Blazers have reached agreement on a four-year, $106M contract extension, sources told Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical.
Portland has made some questionable moves this offseason, but this certainly is not one of them. McCollum, who will be just 25 in September, averaged career-high marks across the board in what can only be described as a breakout 2015-16 season. Now, there will be no questioning what his future looks like with the Blazers, and the team will push forward in its rebuild with McCollum and Damian Lillard at the helm. McCollum, who averaged 20.8 points, 2.5 3PM and 1.2 steals on 44.8 percent shooting last season, could be in line to improve upon those numbers in his second full go-around as the unquestioned starting shooting guard. Per Wojnarowski, the deal will not include any options or trade kickers.

Related: Damian Lillard
 
Source: Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter

 
oh hell yeah we have reached the point where shakeys is being discussed this just got interesting bromigos take that to the pizza with a little crazy on the side bank bromigos 

 
Wow, thats a pretty shocking deal for Waiters. Not that I think he's worth a whole lot more than that, but he was riding high off the whole 'he found himself in the playoffs' narrative. 

 
thecatch said:
Wow, thats a pretty shocking deal for Waiters. Not that I think he's worth a whole lot more than that, but he was riding high off the whole 'he found himself in the playoffs' narrative. 
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Just as you think nearly all NBA GMs are incompetent, they go and nearly blackball Waiters from the NBA for his terrible play. A one year $3 million deal is probably exactly what he should be worth. He has a prestigious draft pedigree, which is worth something, but he has been a replacement level player for 4 years so he didn't deserve much. Probably a good fit Waiters as well as I'm sure he'll get plenty of playing time and fewer ball handlers to take away his opportunities.

 
thecatch said:
Wow, thats a pretty shocking deal for Waiters. Not that I think he's worth a whole lot more than that, but he was riding high off the whole 'he found himself in the playoffs' narrative. 
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OKC sort of screwed him by not renouncing is QO sooner.  That being said no one wants to sign him to anything long term (ie no one wants his Bird rights) and he's really just a shot in the dark, so I'm not that surprised now that the market has settled. He's no Miles Plumlee, that's for sure. :oldunsure:

 
thecatch said:
Wow, thats a pretty shocking deal for Waiters. Not that I think he's worth a whole lot more than that, but he was riding high off the whole 'he found himself in the playoffs' narrative. 
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Statistically he was still pretty terrible in the postseason. He may be coming around on defense but in the final 3 losses to the Warriors he played starter minutes and had a combined total of 8 points.

 
The Blazers are capped out for the next 4 years with McCollum's extension. Lillard is a stud and McCollum is a fine player, but they have little opportunity to improve other than hoping Crabbe, Leonard, and McCollum continue to get better. They were a nice surprise last year, but to me it seems like they have locked themselves into NBA purgatory for the next half decade. They'll be too good to get a worthwhile lottery pick but they'll be bad enough to never have any hope of competing for a championship.

I'm sure somebody is going to pipe up and say they made the second round last year. The Clippers were a better team last year, but injuries made them a shell of the team they should have been. Now the bottom half Western Conference is quickly improving. The Jazz are making big strides, the Pelicans, Nuggets and T-Wolves are trending up. As the Clippers, Thunder, Mavs, and Grizz fade, the younger teams are going to be taking their place. Even the Lakers and Suns have some promise in the next few seasons.

 
Kev4029 said:
The Blazers are capped out for the next 4 years with McCollum's extension. Lillard is a stud and McCollum is a fine player, but they have little opportunity to improve other than hoping Crabbe, Leonard, and McCollum continue to get better. They were a nice surprise last year, but to me it seems like they have locked themselves into NBA purgatory for the next half decade. They'll be too good to get a worthwhile lottery pick but they'll be bad enough to never have any hope of competing for a championship.
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Poor man's version of Toronto.

 
Sammy3469 said:
OKC sort of screwed him by not renouncing is QO sooner.  That being said no one wants to sign him to anything long term (ie no one wants his Bird rights) and he's really just a shot in the dark, so I'm not that surprised now that the market has settled. He's no Miles Plumlee, that's for sure. :oldunsure:
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He could have signed that QO at any time before they pulled it. He overestimated his market and it cost him $4 million this year, but he might be in a better situation if he is actually an NBA level SG (which he isn't).

 
Michael Jordan says something political for the first time in 35 years

“Over the past three decades I have seen up close the dedication of the law enforcement officers who protect me and my family. I have the greatest respect for their sacrifice and service. I also recognize that for many people of color their experiences with law enforcement have been different than mine. I have decided to speak out in the hope that we can come together as Americans, and through peaceful dialogue and education, achieve constructive change.

“To support that effort, I am making contributions of $1 million each to two organizations, the International Association of Chiefs of Police’s newly established Institute for Community-Police Relations and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. The Institute for Community-Police Relations’ policy and oversight work is focused on building trust and promoting best practices in community policing. My donation to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the nation’s oldest civil rights law organization, will support its ongoing work in support of reforms that will build trust and respect between communities and law enforcement. Although I know these contributions alone are not enough to solve the problem, I hope the resources will help both organizations make a positive difference.
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Cliff Clavin said:
Poor man's version of Toronto.
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The McCollum deal should make you feel a little better about DeRozan. They are pretty similar quality players and DeRozan is only 2 years older.

The difference between Toronto's offseason and the Blazers is that Toronto was stuck overpaying for DeRozan, Portland has gone out of their way to overpay for everybody. McCollum's deal wasn't a bad idea as everything else they did from a value standpoint, but other than for player relations, there wasn't much of a reason to give him that extension now.

 
Kev4029 said:
The McCollum deal should make you feel a little better about DeRozan. They are pretty similar quality players and DeRozan is only 2 years older.

The difference between Toronto's offseason and the Blazers is that Toronto was stuck overpaying for DeRozan, Portland has gone out of their way to overpay for everybody. McCollum's deal wasn't a bad idea as everything else they did from a value standpoint, but other than for player relations, there wasn't much of a reason to give him that extension now.
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Nothing can make me feel better about the DeRozan deal.

Yeah, it feels like Toronto dodged a pretty big bullet by locking up JV, Ross and Carroll in the last couple years instead of grossly overpaying them. 

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Nothing can make me feel better about the DeRozan deal.

Yeah, it feels like Toronto dodged a pretty big bullet by locking up JV, Ross and Carroll in the last couple years instead of grossly overpaying them. 
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Yeah, the timing worked out much better for Toronto than it did for the Blazers. It also helped that they were stuck with DeRozan rather than chasing guys like Evan Turner.

 
Kev4029 said:
The Blazers are capped out for the next 4 years with McCollum's extension. Lillard is a stud and McCollum is a fine player, but they have little opportunity to improve other than hoping Crabbe, Leonard, and McCollum continue to get better. They were a nice surprise last year, but to me it seems like they have locked themselves into NBA purgatory for the next half decade. They'll be too good to get a worthwhile lottery pick but they'll be bad enough to never have any hope of competing for a championship.

I'm sure somebody is going to pipe up and say they made the second round last year. The Clippers were a better team last year, but injuries made them a shell of the team they should have been. Now the bottom half Western Conference is quickly improving. The Jazz are making big strides, the Pelicans, Nuggets and T-Wolves are trending up. As the Clippers, Thunder, Mavs, and Grizz fade, the younger teams are going to be taking their place. Even the Lakers and Suns have some promise in the next few seasons.
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Not only are they capped out, they are going to be making some huge luxury tax payments for the foreseeable future. I can definitely see a scenario where a few West bottom feeders make some improvements and the Blazers run into some injury issues and miss the playoffs. 

 
thecatch said:
Not only are they capped out, they are going to be making some huge luxury tax payments for the foreseeable future. I can definitely see a scenario where a few West bottom feeders make some improvements and the Blazers run into some injury issues and miss the playoffs. 
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Lillard or McCollum miss any amount of time and they'll struggle to make the playoffs.

 
Kev4029 said:
The Blazers are capped out for the next 4 years with McCollum's extension. Lillard is a stud and McCollum is a fine player, but they have little opportunity to improve other than hoping Crabbe, Leonard, and McCollum continue to get better. They were a nice surprise last year, but to me it seems like they have locked themselves into NBA purgatory for the next half decade. They'll be too good to get a worthwhile lottery pick but they'll be bad enough to never have any hope of competing for a championship.

I'm sure somebody is going to pipe up and say they made the second round last year. The Clippers were a better team last year, but injuries made them a shell of the team they should have been. Now the bottom half Western Conference is quickly improving. The Jazz are making big strides, the Pelicans, Nuggets and T-Wolves are trending up. As the Clippers, Thunder, Mavs, and Grizz fade, the younger teams are going to be taking their place. Even the Lakers and Suns have some promise in the next few seasons.
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;)

 
Kev4029 said:
The McCollum deal should make you feel a little better about DeRozan. They are pretty similar quality players and DeRozan is only 2 years older.

The difference between Toronto's offseason and the Blazers is that Toronto was stuck overpaying for DeRozan, Portland has gone out of their way to overpay for everybody. McCollum's deal wasn't a bad idea as everything else they did from a value standpoint, but other than for player relations, there wasn't much of a reason to give him that extension now.
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McCollum is younger, cheaper, and probably better.  Not sure that takes the sting out of a Derozon contract. 

 
thecatch said:
Not only are they capped out, they are going to be making some huge luxury tax payments for the foreseeable future. I can definitely see a scenario where a few West bottom feeders make some improvements and the Blazers run into some injury issues and miss the playoffs. 
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I think that is very possible in 2016, I think it is probable that they are going to have some serious problems when Lillard-McCollum-Turner-Crabbe are taking up 90% of the cap in a few years and Plumlee and Davis are elsewhere. I imagine they'll be looking to flip one of the centers by the trade deadline for a most long term cost controlled option, but their front court going to be pretty bad in a couple years with no way of improving it substantially unless they hit a draft jackpot.

 
thecatch said:
McCollum is younger, cheaper, and probably better.  Not sure that takes the sting out of a Derozon contract. 
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McCollum is a 6'2.25" SG that doesn't play much defense. He's a good player and is bound to get a little better over the next couple seasons, but I think he is approaching he ceiling because of his height.

 
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Kev4029 said:
McCollum is a 6'2" SG that doesn't play much defense. He's a good player and is bound to get a little better over the next couple seasons, but I think he is approaching he ceiling because of his height.
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Derozan is 6-7 and doesn't play defense. Who you prefer probably comes down to roster fit and philosophy, as McCollum is going to stretch the floor and Derozan is going to get to the line, with neither doing much else super effectively. 

 
thecatch said:
Derozan is 6-7 and doesn't play defense. Who you prefer probably comes down to roster fit and philosophy, as McCollum is going to stretch the floor and Derozan is going to get to the line, with neither doing much else super effectively. 
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I thought DeRozan had a mediocre defensive reputation, I know they used to use him as the wing stopper with very little success in the past, but he seems like he should be passable defensively.

One of the things that DeRozan does spectacularly well, is he doesn't turn the ball over for somebody that uses that many possessions (it has also been true of Melo and Kobe for most of their careers). I made the comparison as something of a joke a month or two back, but DeRozan is very much Kobe-lite. That is a surprisingly useful skill that has been pooh-poohed a bit in the modern NBA. Having a guy like DeRozan who will score moderately efficiently in bunches without turning it over is easy to build an offense around.

 
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thecatch said:
Derozan is 6-7 and doesn't play defense. Who you prefer probably comes down to roster fit and philosophy, as McCollum is going to stretch the floor and Derozan is going to get to the line, with neither doing much else super effectively. 
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The thing that Derozan does do effectively, getting to the line, he is elite at. CJ's 2FTA per game is pretty poor for a guard and doubtful to get too much better given his height.

 Lots of guards shoot the 3 like CJ.

And yeah, D should not be in this conversation as neither have a clue on that end.

It pains me to stick up for him. I hate backcourt players that can't shoot. 

 
Cliff Clavin said:
The thing that Derozan does do effectively, getting to the line, he is elite at. CJ's 2FTA per game is pretty poor for a guard and doubtful to get too much better given his height.

 Lots of guards shoot the 3 like CJ.

And yeah, D should not be in this conversation as neither have a clue on that end.

It pains me to stick up for him. I hate backcourt players that can't shoot. 
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I'm not sure that you can dismiss the value of McCollum's three point shooting so easily, but otherwise I think this is probably fair. Ideally McCollum would get a little bit better at finding ways to finish at the rim (47% seems pretty low but I'm not sure what league average is for guards) and kick the 3P% up a couple percent. 

 
thecatch said:
I'm not sure that you can dismiss the value of McCollum's three point shooting so easily, but otherwise I think this is probably fair. Ideally McCollum would get a little bit better at finding ways to finish at the rim (47% seems pretty low but I'm not sure what league average is for guards) and kick the 3P% up a couple percent. 
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Notoriously terrible finisher Ricky Rubio shot almost 52% at the rim. 5'5" Earl Boykins  (probably closer to 5'3") shot 55% at the rim for his career. Mudiay who was about the worst bucket getter in the NBA shot 48%. To be fair, Basketball Reference has McCollum at 52%. I would guess league average is closer to 60% for guards.

 
Kev4029 said:
Notoriously terrible finisher Ricky Rubio shot almost 52% at the rim. 5'5" Earl Boykins  (probably closer to 5'3") shot 55% at the rim for his career. Mudiay who was about the worst bucket getter in the NBA shot 48%. To be fair, Basketball Reference has McCollum at 52%. I would guess league average is closer to 60% for guards.
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I was actually looking at the 0-4 feet stats from NBA.com, which for some reason I can't find now on the mobile version of the site. I think Derozan was like 58% from that range and Steph Curry (a best case scenario for someone roughly McCollum's size, obviously) was 62%, IIRC. 

 
McCollum was 6' 3.25" in shoes at the combine, thank you very much.  (6' 6.25" wingspan.)

He does have kind of a sneaky post up game he uses at times, maybe he'll get better at it.

Derozan was 6' 6.5"  in shoes at the combine with a 6'9" wingspan fwiw.

 
Harkless back to Portland for 4/40. Blazers 2017 luxury tax bill up to about $60m. I wish Paul Allen owned my favorite team(s). 

 
Notorious T.R.E. said:
McCollum was 6' 3.25" in shoes at the combine, thank you very much.  (6' 6.25" wingspan.)

He does have kind of a sneaky post up game he uses at times, maybe he'll get better at it.

Derozan was 6' 6.5"  in shoes at the combine with a 6'9" wingspan fwiw.
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When people ask me how tall I am, I tell them how tall I am barefoot. I hold NBA players to the same lofty expectations.

 
A confused Phil Jackson wonders to himself why Amare is signing a one-day contract if he's going to be the starting PF

 
thecatch said:
Harkless back to Portland for 4/40. Blazers 2017 luxury tax bill up to about $60m. I wish Paul Allen owned my favorite team(s). 
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I don't think Harkless on that deal is a bad signing, but it seems like an awful signing for the Blazers.

At this point they must just be signing all their own free agents in the hopes that they can flip them for some assets prior to next year's draft. The problem is they can't play everybody they have signed to increase their trade value. Either Harkless or Leonard, possibly both, are going to be completely out of the rotation killing their trade value. There is no hope of developing Vonleh, if he is even worth the effort, they've spent so much money on backup bigs that Plumlee's salary slot is gone, Turner is going to steal minutes from players that are more talented than him (all the perimeter players). They have had one of the strangest offseasons I can remember.

 
Kev4029 said:
I thought DeRozan had a mediocre defensive reputation, I know they used to use him as the wing stopper with very little success in the past, but he seems like he should be passable defensively.

One of the things that DeRozan does spectacularly well, is he doesn't turn the ball over for somebody that uses that many possessions (it has also been true of Melo and Kobe for most of their careers). I made the comparison as something of a joke a month or two back, but DeRozan is very much Kobe-lite. That is a surprisingly useful skill that has been pooh-poohed a bit in the modern NBA. Having a guy like DeRozan who will score moderately efficiently in bunches without turning it over is easy to build an offense around.
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what did demar ever do to you brohan cripes sometimes if you have nothign nice to say just do not say nuthin that is all i am saying take that to the bank bromigos

 
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