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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (2 Viewers)

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From the Where Are They Now? File...

Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway just won his second state title as the head coach of the boys' varsity at Memphis East.  

Memphis has always been a hotbed of basketball talent, Memphis East a traditional Tennessee power in hoops.  Penny runs a tight ship as coach - mandatory tutoring and study hall hours for the players, says his first goal each season is to make sure the seniors all graduate and get into college, and second goal is to win state.

He's got a powerhouse.  His best player this season is a sophomore.  Memphis East is expected to be one of the top public high school teams in the country next year.

 
Master of Past and Present said:
Drive and Dish podcast with two 76er fans saying tanking is out of control right now is hilarious.  
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well they aren't wrong. the freak out about the Sixers the last 2-3 years was pretty crazy, and at this point you can see that it wasn't a terrible idea (if successful, we will see. Health and avoiding injuries will play a big part).

Gotta blame the NBA though. They saw this coming when Hinkie basically showed them how to dig a team out of mediocrity and give them a chance for a future, and didn't do anything but feel they had to remove Hinkie. This has been done before Hinkie as well, but this year does seem that more and more teams are not making a devoted effort to win. they funny part is the team's that are losing with these other teams, yet they are trying and have no future panned out. 

 
Knee surgery for Embiid. The Hinkie worshippers better hope Simmons is a franchise player or the Sixers get one with the Kings' 2019 pick. 

 
Gr00vus said:
I think they do need to do something about the tanking at this point. Rekajigger the ping pong ball allotment.
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Have the teams pick whose pick they want next season.  Right now Brooklyn would get to pick first, then LA, etc.  Can't pick yourself.  That way your pick has no tie to your own wins and losses but you are given an advantage by being able to pick first.

 
Oof. Good player but not worth that money/much of the cap. Particularly for his age 33 seasons and beyond. 

@AdamSchefter  2h2 hours ago






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Paul Millsap could void deal paying him $21.4M next season. Could get max 5-year, $207M with Hawks, or 4-year, $154M with other teams.
 
Cliff Clavin said:
Are we still trusting the process?
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same way that everyone pissed on the Sixers when they began "the process", things will be just fine. It isn't a big deal of a surgery, and he should be back to working out in a month maybe little more. Since the start with this injury, i am just pleased it isn't his feet or his back. Minor mensicus tear isn't anything that can't be fixed up and fine going forward

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Oof. Good player but not worth that money/much of the cap. Particularly for his age 33 seasons and beyond. 

@AdamSchefter  2h2 hours ago




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Paul Millsap could void deal paying him $21.4M next season. Could get max 5-year, $207M with Hawks, or 4-year, $154M with other teams.
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I would be comfortable maxing him for 3 years, assuming that the third year could be a little rough. Giving him 4 or 5 years could be a nightmare by the end of the contract. 

 
modogg said:
same way that everyone pissed on the Sixers when they began "the process", things will be just fine. It isn't a big deal of a surgery, and he should be back to working out in a month maybe little more. Since the start with this injury, i am just pleased it isn't his feet or his back. Minor mensicus tear isn't anything that can't be fixed up and fine going forward
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Isn't that what we thought about Okafor and now I'm still not sure if he's fully recovered.  They seem to have mismanaged this injury situation all along the way (or intentionally obfuscated it to further tanking, which Colangelo still can't even get right).

I trust the process, but I don't necessarily trust their medical staff anymore, nor Colangelo & Son, Inc.

 
Kev4029 said:
Not that anybody else gives a ####, but Nikola Jokic is out playing every other big man in the NBA right now, save for maybe Davis and Cousins. His play over the first half of the year has been spectacular (Top ORtg in the league, 10th in WS/48, 13th in PER) but since he has been starting at center this year he is other worldly. He is averaging 19.4/9.4/5.2 in less than 28 MPG (25.3/12.3/6.8 per 36) with a TS% of .706 through the last 14 games.

He'll likely always leave something to be desired defensively because he is a below average athlete and slightly short for the position, but he is already doing everything offensively at an elite level and he is still only 21.
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A little update on Jokic:


8th in PER (26.4)
7th in WS/48 (.230)
5th in Ortg (126.6)
4th in BPM (8.2)
4th in TS% (.646)
6th in RPM (6.31)

In the 40 games since he became the starting center, he is averaging 19.1 pts/10.6 reb/5.7 ast with a .659 TS% in only 29.1 MPG (23.6/13.1/7.1 per 36). I won't hold my breath, but I think he is deserving of an All-NBA nod.

I think would take the Nuggets' young core over either Philly or Minnesota's with the way Jokic, Harris (quietly a top 10 SG and only 22 years old), Murray, and Hernangomez (Ryan Anderson + passable defense) have played the second half of the season, plus I still think Beasley and Mudiay are future rotation players. The oldest of that group is Harris at 22 years and 190 days.

 
Kev4029 said:
A little update on Jokic:

8th in PER (26.4)
7th in WS/48 (.230)
5th in Ortg (126.6)
4th in BPM (8.2)
4th in TS% (.646)
6th in RPM (6.31)

In the 40 games since he became the starting center, he is averaging 19.1 pts/10.6 reb/5.7 ast with a .659 TS% in only 29.1 MPG (23.6/13.1/7.1 per 36). I won't hold my breath, but I think he is deserving of an All-NBA nod.

I think would take the Nuggets' young core over either Philly or Minnesota's with the way Jokic, Harris (quietly a top 10 SG and only 22 years old), Murray, and Hernangomez (Ryan Anderson + passable defense) have played the second half of the season, plus I still think Beasley and Mudiay are future rotation players. The oldest of that group is Harris at 22 years and 190 days.
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Ohhh...it's definitely a discussion, but I'd still lean with MIN because I believe KAT's ceiling is higher. Towns is more likely to become a defensive force than Jokic.

 
Charlie Harper said:
Ohhh...it's definitely a discussion, but I'd still lean with MIN because I believe KAT's ceiling is higher. Towns is more likely to become a defensive force than Jokic.
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Towns will probably be the better player because of his physical profile, he's bigger and much more athletic. Their statistical profiles are remarkably similar though, outside of Jokic's assist numbers. Jokic just has so much going on offensively (mostly with old man guile), that while I think Towns will be the better player, I don't think there will be a big gap between the two. Here are his highlights from last night, the last play of the highlight is my favorite (starts at about 3:15). His passing from the high post is probably more creative than any big in the NBA, and his footwork and positioning in the post are extraordinary for a young big.

So, while I would take Towns over anything the Nuggets have, I think there is more upside and depth in the rest of the Nuggets roster. The TWolves really don't have much beyond Towns, Wiggins, and Lavine.

 
IMO, Nuggets might look slightly better on paper, but as a practical matter, I think it's really hard to build an adequate defense with a guy like Jokic at center. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
Towns > Jokic

Wiggins = Harrris (Wiggins better now, I think Harris could be better in future)

LaVine = Murray

Bjelica = Hernangomez
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Bjelica is 28. 

I think Murray has a much higher ceiling than LaVine, even though LaVine is the much better player today.

I would flip flop what you said about Harris and Wiggins. I think Harris is the better player but Wiggins has a higher ceiling.

 
Kev4029 said:
Bjelica is 28. 
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Hernangomez >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bjelica

Already a much better player and much younger. They're nowhere remotely close to equal. Not even worth a discussion. Not to mention a really odd choice.

 
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thecatch said:
IMO, Nuggets might look slightly better on paper, but as a practical matter, I think it's really hard to build an adequate defense with a guy like Jokic at center. 
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I don't think Jokic will ever anchor a top 5 defense, but I would be surprised if he isn't an average defender at some point. The Nuggets will have to play conservatively on pick and rolls as he isn't athletic enough to hedge and get back to his man, but otherwise I think he'll be adequate. Already he is usually in the right spot defensively, the problem is the perimeter players not keeping ball handlers out of the paint. Jokic's rim protection stats are terrible (as a whole, there is a lot of noise in that stat), but I think that is more a function of the team around him than his play. He's very smart on the court and does not lack effort defensively, so I'm convinced he'll figure it out.

For the Nuggets to be a legitimate contender, they only have to be an average defensive team anyway because they are going to be an offensive powerhouse for years to come.

 
Fun stat - The Suns had the second youngest lineup in basketball last night, just a bit older than Purdue, and younger than every other Sweet 16 team. The average age of the Sun's starting lineup last night was 21 years and 14 days, which was a new NBA record by 129 days.

 
EYLive said:
What a choke job by the Clippers. Playing like crap at the wrong time of the season.
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Totally agree. I did watch that game live on tv last night and I will say that the Clips were definitely on the short end of the stock on some pivotal four quarter bad/missed calls.  Matthews was posting up cp3--and cp3 did a perfect "pull the chair" move on him that caused to do an obvious traveling violation--and the refs totally missed the call and the even hit cp3 with a tech for arguing it.   Earlier in the quarter--Austin Rivers was on a break--pushed the ball all the way to the basket--and Matthews literally reached out and grabbed his arms on purpose to avoid giving up the easy bucket and the refs didn't call a thing.  Don't get me wrong--the Clips shouldn't have put themselves in a position to lose that game--but I will say that the officiating was far from perfect

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Totally agree. I did watch that game live on tv last night and I will say that the Clips were definitely on the short end of the stock on some pivotal four quarter bad/missed calls.  Matthews was posting up cp3--and cp3 did a perfect "pull the chair" move on him that caused to do an obvious traveling violation--and the refs totally missed the call and the even hit cp3 with a tech for arguing it.   Earlier in the quarter--Austin Rivers was on a break--pushed the ball all the way to the basket--and Matthews literally reached out and grabbed his arms on purpose to avoid giving up the easy bucket and the refs didn't call a thing.  Don't get me wrong--the Clips shouldn't have put themselves in a position to lose that game--but I will say that the officiating was far from perfect
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Blake was mugged on that 2nd to last possession too. But the Clips totally shot themselves in the foot with turnovers as well. It reminded me of all those playoff collapses from the past few years, where they screwed themselves in crunch time with unforced errors.

 
What happens when a healthy Clippers team loses to Utah in the first round? Fire Doc? Let Blake/CP3 walk? Trade DeAndre? Burn down Staples?

I mean if it's not happening after six years it's not happening. 

 
Boston said:
Missed the Celtics game...can someone walk me thru how Booker ended up with 70 points...that # is crazy...
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he made a bunch of 1 2 and 3 pointers and when you added them up it was 70 bam another math riddle solved by the old swcer take that to the bank brohan

 
Boston said:
Missed the Celtics game...can someone walk me thru how Booker ended up with 70 points...that # is crazy...
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Everyone else was hurt or sucked that game for Phoenix, I believe they went into that game with 8 healthy players, plus Bradley was out and early in the 2nd the Celtics were up 25. It was still very impressive. 

 
So I haven't posted in this thread in a long while, and this may have been discussed at length (or not at all) but I'm going to ask this question anyhow: if the Lakers were to get the 2nd pick overall and take Lonzo Ball, could he be the next superstar they've been waiting for?

 
timschochet said:
So I haven't posted in this thread in a long while, and this may have been discussed at length (or not at all) but I'm going to ask this question anyhow: if the Lakers were to get the 2nd pick overall and take Lonzo Ball, could he be the next superstar they've been waiting for?
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I'll take a jab at answering this.  As a Lakers fan--I'd love to see them get Ball.   I think he will be something special as he's shown sooo much at such a young age.  In regards to him being "the next superstar that they've been waiting for"--my answer is that even if he's not the superstar--he could very well be the key to them getting their next superstar. If they get Ball--they end up with a plethora of young upside talent in Ingram, Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Nance..etc.. I do think that they would be a bit guard heavy and getting Ball could open the door up to them packaging either Clarkson or Russell in a deal that would net them a superstar. Lets not forget that they probably could have landed Boogie if they were willing to let a guy like Ingram go.  Getting Ball would be great for them. However--even if they get him--they still have the god awful contracts of Deng and Mozgof to deal with.   

 
Lonzo Ball seems like a less coordinated and athletic Ricky Rubio. Not sure what the other guys project as, but the mediocre athleticism and terrible jump shot make me shy away. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
Lonzo Ball seems like a less coordinated and athletic Ricky Rubio. Not sure what the other guys project as, but the mediocre athleticism and terrible jump shot make me shy away. 
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Terrible jump shot form. It's been going in pretty regularly. I would avoid him just because I feel like his dad is going to meddle, but combined with that form, he might be pretty risky at the #2 pick.

 
Charlie Harper said:
Lonzo Ball seems like a less coordinated and athletic Ricky Rubio. Not sure what the other guys project as, but the mediocre athleticism and terrible jump shot make me shy away. 
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Bigger issue is he's got some questions on defense. Doesn't even seem like he tries half the time. 

 
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