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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (3 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
Your opinion doesn't seem to be anywhere close to the consensus of NBA scouts, who do this for a living. That doesn't make you wrong and them right of course; they have been wrong about lots of players in the past. But even so I do tend to trust their opinion when it's a strong consensus. In this case that strong consensus is that Ball is at worst a top 3-4 pick. 
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You should make a list of the top 100 consensus top five picks by NBA scouts and rate how their careers panned out.

 
timschochet said:
Of course if Ball is Rondo or Jason Kidd I'll be happy about that if the Lakers get him, but selfishly I want more. I want Magic Johnson or Kobe Bryant, somebody who will lead my team back to the NBA Finals where they belong. 
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This is about as close to performance art as internet forum posting can get

 
Not sure if Cleveland has the defense to stop San Antonio. Unless they're drilling 3s, this seems like a super bad matchup for the Cavs.

It's the same team that punked out Lebron in the finals.

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
That's not really a fair assessment at all.  I've lived in Southern Cali my entire life and translating a players college performance into what kind of player they will be in the NBA is not an exact science.  Nobody thought that Russell Westbrook would be what he is today back when he was playing at UCLA.   Ball is a true freshman that has an amazing skill set for somebody so young.  His court vision cannot be taught, he has solid handles--and heck---the dude is still probably going to grow another few inches.   His jumpshot has a hitch--but it's not like he has no shooting touch.  Keep in mind--the NBA has shooting coaches that can work with him on that--so his shot will improve--however--you can't teach court vision or height.    Let's also not forget that there is a very good chance that he was playing with a distracted mind against Kentucky.  Apparently his mother is recovering from some sort of medical condition to the point where even his father didn't attend the game in order to be with her.   Am I saying that he for sure will be a superstar at the next level? The answer is "nobody knows"--as there are many moving parts involved. It depends on where he goes, who is coaching him, the system in which he is placed..etc. However, what I will say is that in my opinion-- what he has shown in regards to skill set for somebody his age is easily promising enough to justify considering taking him in the top 3.  
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He declared for the NBA draft as soon as he could after the loss - sure didn't seem that distracted to me.  Sounds more like an excuse for playing poorly in his hardest test all season long.  

 
tjnc09 said:
He declared for the NBA draft as soon as he could after the loss - sure didn't seem that distracted to me.  Sounds more like an excuse for playing poorly in his hardest test all season long.  
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He was asked by a reporter after the game if that was his last game with UCLA?  From the beginning of the season--it was crystal clear through him and his father that he was a "one year and done" player.  I'm not sure how him answering an interviewers question honestly somehow makes him "not distracted".  An 18 year olds kids mother is battling a medical condition--and his team lost to a superior team--and somehow you are claiming that he wasn't distracted because he answered a question honestly?  Let's just agree to disagree here.  Believe it or not--great players play poorly from time to time.   

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
He was asked by a reporter after the game if that was his last game with UCLA?  From the beginning of the season--it was crystal clear through him and his father that he was a "one year and done" player.  I'm not sure how him answering an interviewers question honestly somehow makes him "not distracted".  An 18 year olds kids mother is battling a medical condition--and his team lost to a superior team--and somehow you are claiming that he wasn't distracted because he answered a question honestly?  Let's just agree to disagree here.  Believe it or not--great players play poorly from time to time.   
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I don't think that's why he played poorly. I do think when they got down he checked out though. No matter what (it doesn't matter longterm at all) it's weird to announce you are going pro literally minutes after the game ends. You probably have teammates/staff who are still bummed. Everybody knew he was leaving but that was weird. 

 
Capella said:
I don't think that's why he played poorly. I do think when they got down he checked out though. No matter what (it doesn't matter longterm at all) it's weird to announce you are going pro literally minutes after the game ends. You probably have teammates/staff who are still bummed. Everybody knew he was leaving but that was weird. 
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Interesting

 
Kobe has always been a bit cringey off the court.  This is not surprising.  Remember the all-white outfit?

He is one of my favorite players of all-time but an awful person off the court.  The "dark musings" is his justification for being an #####.  Kind of like JK Simmons in Whiplash.

 
This chase for the 8 spot in the West is getting to be fun.   Earlier in the thread I mentioned that Nurkic could be great in Portland--and he is looking like the real deal.  He's still young and raw--but I love how he looks on that team. Since they got him--they've gone 13-6--and really should have been 14-5 as the refs handed the Wizards an undeserved victory (replays clearly showed that Markeiff Morris stepped out of bounds on a game winning jumper--but this was deemed 'non reviewable").   I'd love to see this Portland team give the Warriors a bit of a challenge in the first round.     They are now 1 game up on the Nuggets who have been showing signs of life themselves.   I'd like to see Portland hang on to the 8--but Denver wouldn't be too bad either.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
This chase for the 8 spot in the West is getting to be fun.   Earlier in the thread I mentioned that Nurkic could be great in Portland--and he is looking like the real deal.  He's still young and raw--but I love how he looks on that team. Since they got him--they've gone 13-6--and really should have been 14-5 as the refs handed the Wizards an undeserved victory (replays clearly showed that Markeiff Morris stepped out of bounds on a game winning jumper--but this was deemed 'non reviewable").   I'd love to see this Portland team give the Warriors a bit of a challenge in the first round.     They are now 1 game up on the Nuggets who have been showing signs of life themselves.   I'd like to see Portland hang on to the 8--but Denver wouldn't be too bad either.  
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Nurkic really made a point last night, going for 33 and 16 against both the player he was traded for and the player he was benched for. He's still too turnover prone and shoots too low a percentage, but the Blazers definitely got the better player (and a first round pick) in the trade.

The Blazers are now one game up on the Nuggets, have the season tie-breaker, plus they have the much easier schedule. Last night was a must win for the Nuggets and they blew it. Now I'm hoping the Nuggets can drop 6 of their next 8 and can slip low enough to grab Miles Bridges.

 
For some dumb reason the Pacers just signed Lance Stephenson to a three year $12 million contract. The last year is a team option, and this year is nearly over, so it only ends up being a risk for next season, but I'm still surprised. For a player that couldn't even get a minimum contract from another team, has been below replacement value for the last three years, and has a pretty terrible off the court reputation, I'm amazed that he got anything more than the minimum guaranteed next year. His agent deserves every bit of that commission.

 
Kev4029 said:
For some dumb reason the Pacers just signed Lance Stephenson to a three year $12 million contract. The last year is a team option, and this year is nearly over, so it only ends up being a risk for next season, but I'm still surprised. For a player that couldn't even get a minimum contract from another team, has been below replacement value for the last three years, and has a pretty terrible off the court reputation, I'm amazed that he got anything more than the minimum guaranteed next year. His agent deserves every bit of that commission.
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true, but i guess they figure that they knew how to make it work with him and if they can somehow get it back together with him, then they have a huge surplus value.  if you just re-build him and he has the leverage, he could leave like last time because they wouldn't want to go too high.

 
Kev4029 said:
For some dumb reason the Pacers just signed Lance Stephenson to a three year $12 million contract. The last year is a team option, and this year is nearly over, so it only ends up being a risk for next season, but I'm still surprised. For a player that couldn't even get a minimum contract from another team, has been below replacement value for the last three years, and has a pretty terrible off the court reputation, I'm amazed that he got anything more than the minimum guaranteed next year. His agent deserves every bit of that commission.
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Woah. I wanted him to work out with the Wolves but he just didn't show much and kept getting hurt. It's surprising to see him get a multi-year deal but maybe going back to the one team he has had success with will allow him to get his career back on track

 
Magic valiantly found a way to blow a 15-point lead in the 4th quarter and lost to the Thunder. 

Westbrook merely had 57-13-11

 
Suck it Toronto.  And Cleveland and Boston, you better tank harder for the 2 seed because get thumped in the first round by a sub-.500 team will be embarrassing.

 
Golden State takes the lead vs SA after being down by 23. Ballsy.

If they win this game the race for the 1 seed is essentially over.

ETA: That's with Draymond Green playing like dookie.

 
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Capella said:
Magic valiantly found a way to blow a 15-point lead in the 4th quarter and lost to the Thunder. 

Westbrook merely had 57-13-11
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I know his team's record is mediocre, but if I had an MVP vote it's going to Westbrook.  Harden checks in as 1b, Lebron as 1c, and Kawhi at 1d.  But what Westbrook is doing this season is bananas.

 
SayWhat? said:
I know his team's record is mediocre, but if I had an MVP vote it's going to Westbrook.  Harden checks in as 1b, Lebron as 1c, and Kawhi at 1d.  But what Westbrook is doing this season is bananas.
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If you ignore the triple doubles propped up by inflated rebounding numbers due to team funneling rebounds to Westbrook and his complete disinterest in defense......then yah....what Westbrook is doing is bananas. 

Otherwise, if you're going for an offense only MVP then Harden beats Westbrook with nearly the same production (only 8 rebs vs 10 rebs) but on way better efficiency (61.8% TS vs 55% TS) and a better team record with comparable talent. However, since there's the whole defense thing....Leonard gets my MVP vote.

 
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Charlie Harper said:
If you ignore the triple doubles propped up by inflated rebounding numbers due to team funneling rebounds to Westbrook and his complete disinterest in defense......then yah....what Westbrook is doing is bananas. 

Otherwise, if you're going for an offense only MVP then Harden beats Westbrook with nearly the same production (only 8 rebs vs 10 rebs) but on way better efficiency (61.8% TS vs 55% TS) and a better team record with comparable talent. However, since there's the whole defense thing....Leonard gets my MVP vote.
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Leonard's defensive play has dropped this season.  

 
Charlie Harper said:
If you ignore the triple doubles propped up by inflated rebounding numbers due to team funneling rebounds to Westbrook and his complete disinterest in defense......then yah....what Westbrook is doing is bananas. 

Otherwise, if you're going for an offense only MVP then Harden beats Westbrook with nearly the same production (only 8 rebs vs 10 rebs) but on way better efficiency (61.8% TS vs 55% TS) and a better team record with comparable talent. However, since there's the whole defense thing....Leonard gets my MVP vote.
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Like I said, it's truly a 1a, 1b, 1c, and 1d race this year.   I don't recall an MVP race in recent memory where any of four players could receive it, and I wouldn't bat an eye.  So I'm not going to quibble about Harden as MVP, nor would I if it were Kawhi or Lebron.  I would slightly disagree with your assessment that Harden and Westbrook are on teams with comparable talent.  Eliminate the two stars and I don't think it's close in a poll of which roster would be preferred.  Do I take the Rockets roster over the Thunder in a landslide?  No, but it's a pretty easy decision.  And I think the roster talent and offense correlates with the TS%, to a certain degree.  Westbrook quite literally can't defer to a single other player on his team on the offensive end if his team is to have a chance to win.  Other than Oladipo, I don't believe the Thunder have a backcourt player whom should be getting minutes on a playoff contending team and they certainly have nobody on the perimeter that can get buckets outside of Westbrook/Oladipo.  Finally, as it relates to defense they are both are a detriment at that end of the court, but Harden is magnitudes worse than Westbrook.    

Love me some Kawhi, but take Harden/Westbrook off of their teams this season and I think their teams are far worse off than the Spurs or Cavs are without Kawhi and Lebron.  From that standpoint, I go Westbrook this season by the slightest of margins over Harden.   Final answer.

 
Charlie Harper said:
If you ignore the triple doubles propped up by inflated rebounding numbers due to team funneling rebounds to Westbrook and his complete disinterest in defense......then yah....what Westbrook is doing is bananas. 

Otherwise, if you're going for an offense only MVP thend Harden beats Westbrook with nearly the same production (only 8 rebs vs 10 rebs) but on way better efficiency (61.8% TS vs 55% TS) and a better team record with comparable talent. However, since there's the whole defense thing....Leonard gets my MVP vote.
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Averaging a triple double has been done once before in NBA history.  It's a pretty amazing achievement (assuming Westbrook does so which I think it almost a guarantee at this point).  And that was with a game that had a whole lot more rebounds (70 per game compared to something like 40 now).  I don't blame any voter who gives Westbrook their MVP vote.  It's a pretty amazing achievement that we may never see again.  Even if Westbrook is inflating his numbers to get the triple double.

 
Charlie Harper said:
If you ignore the triple doubles propped up by inflated rebounding numbers due to team funneling rebounds to Westbrook and his complete disinterest in defense......then yah....what Westbrook is doing is bananas. 

Otherwise, if you're going for an offense only MVP then Harden beats Westbrook with nearly the same production (only 8 rebs vs 10 rebs) but on way better efficiency (61.8% TS vs 55% TS) and a better team record with comparable talent. However, since there's the whole defense thing....Leonard gets my MVP vote.
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Say what?  Westbrook has always hit the boards.  Always in the right place at the right time for rebounds.  I'm not sure how the Thunder can be considered 'funneling rebounds to Westbrook'.  He's always been the best rebounding guard in the league, just because he's willing to put in the effort to get the rebounds.  

Oh, and Westbrook definitely sucks on D most of the time.  He can play D when he wants to, and used to play D regularly, but he does not give an F about D now.  I kinda of understand that given his usage rate and carrying the entire offensive load for the team.  Plus he just lets his man go by him and then trails him to get the rebound.  More 'stat padding'.

 
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