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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

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Capella said:
You think he'll be a high pick because his dad is an incredibly annoying distraction? :confused:
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I think his father has a done a great job in the media hyping him up.  He's certainly worth a draft pick but anything in the top ten is ridiculous.  He's not that good. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Oh Noes, he had a rough game against a team far more talented than his own.  Late 2nd rounder at best. 
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:lmao:  yeah let's ignore what he did against potential NBA competition in an elimination game. He shot like a scrub and Kentucky's guards scored like a million points.  

 
tjnc09 said:
:lmao:  yeah let's ignore what he did against potential NBA competition in an elimination game. He shot like a scrub and Kentucky's guards scored like a million points.  
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He had a rough game against a superior team.  Fortunately NBA GMs aren't this silly.

 
tjnc09 said:
:mellow:  you were knocking him minutes ago.  He is a soft player who plays no defense.  Why else would a team draft him so high?
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Because he's an incredible offensive player. 

Besides the statement of his dad talking a team into making him a high pick is just pure dumb. 

 
Hype can have a real  effect on draft stock. I firmly believe that. Different sport, but both Tebow and Manziel are pretty good examples.

You only need to rook one team, not all 30 (or 32) of them. But, I'm not aware of legit draft/college analyst who doesn't think that Ball's a Top 2/3 pick this year. I'm having a hard time believing Lavar can legitimately fool everybody. Or 99% of everybody.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Hype can have a real  effect on draft stock. I firmly believe that. Different sport, but both Tebow and Manziel are pretty good examples.

You only need to rook one team, not all 30 (or 32) of them. But, I'm not aware of legit draft/college analyst who doesn't think that Ball's a Top 2/3 pick this year. I'm having a hard time believing Lavar can legitimately fool everybody. Or 99% of everybody.
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If Lavar is foolin'em, he's been doing it for years.  Lonzo was a top 10 overall recruit out of HS, then goes on to have a huge year and make 1st team All American as a freshman. 

All hype.  LOLZ

 
Charlie Harper said:
There's tons of college All-Americans and lottery picks that bust in every professional sport. 

Ball has positives, but a broken jumper, mediocre athleticism, and poor defense are red flags.
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True, but freshman All Americans are usually not busts.  And freshman all American PGs who are 6-6 are virtually bust proof. 

He may or may not be a franchise player.  But at the very least he's going to be a borderline All star level PG for the next decade simply due to his size, handle, and vision.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
True, but freshman All Americans are usually not busts.  And freshman all American PGs who are 6-6 are virtually bust proof. 

He may or may not be a franchise player.  But at the very least he's going to be a borderline All star level PG for the next decade simply due to his size, handle, and vision.  
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There's also a good chance he doesn't get playing time because he can't get his jumper off and doesn't play defense. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
If you were an nba gm, where do you slot him on your big board? Assume all positions are of equal need.
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I don't watch much college basketball outside of March Madness (especially since the Dubs aren't lottery bound) so I don't know how he stacks up with other prospects.

I just really don't think he'll be able to get that jumper off in the NBA with longer and more athletic defenders.

 
Charlie Harper said:
I don't watch much college basketball outside of March Madness (especially since the Dubs aren't lottery bound) so I don't know how he stacks up with other prospects.

I just really don't think he'll be able to get that jumper off in the NBA with longer and more athletic defenders.
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I watched at least 25 UCLA games this year and I also follow the HS scene closely in the LA area.  I'm comfortable giving an opinion on him.

 
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tjnc09 said:
I watched at least 25 UCLA games this year and I also follow the HS scene closely in the LA area.  I'm comfortable giving an opinion on him.
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Your opinion doesn't seem to be anywhere close to the consensus of NBA scouts, who do this for a living. That doesn't make you wrong and them right of course; they have been wrong about lots of players in the past. But even so I do tend to trust their opinion when it's a strong consensus. In this case that strong consensus is that Ball is at worst a top 3-4 pick. 

 
Of course if Ball is Rondo or Jason Kidd I'll be happy about that if the Lakers get him, but selfishly I want more. I want Magic Johnson or Kobe Bryant, somebody who will lead my team back to the NBA Finals where they belong. 

 
The Lakers are so broken that even if they get Ball and even if he's the second coming of Jesus Shuttleworth it's still gonna be '19-'20 before they even sniff the playoffs, and that's if Magic doesn't have a little Isaiah Thomas in him (which methinks he does). 

 
Ball has the potential to be a league superstar and it will probably come down to work ethic and his mental toughness. Magic shot well below .500 both seasons at Michigan State. He was far from a finished product coming out of college. I can't think of any NBA great that wasn't a vastly better player after being in the NBA a few years and working on their game in the offseason. These days you draft for potential and hope the kid you draft has the proper makeup to reach it.

As a Celtics fan I'd be quite happy with them landing Ball and trading Thomas.

 
tommyGunZ said:
True, but freshman All Americans are usually not busts.  And freshman all American PGs who are 6-6 are virtually bust proof. 

He may or may not be a franchise player.  But at the very least he's going to be a borderline All star level PG for the next decade simply due to his size, handle, and vision.  
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 Tell that to Ricky Rubio.

I'll go on record as saying I'm undecided on Ball.  I know, bold statement.  I can't figure him out.  He looks amazing at time, and at others he looks like a 13 year old who just went through a growth spurt and hasn't figured out how to use his body.  His vision and passing are amazing.  That probably precludes him from being a total bust.  So I think his floor is Rubio.  While his shot form is horrible, it does go in at a decent rate.  I don't think he will put in the work to fix it (based on an article I read where he tried to fix it previously, didn't have instant success, so he went back to original form), so I don't think he'll ever be a high volume shooter.  I could see him as a third option on a team where's he's able to take advantage of the defense focused on others, and getting open shots on ball reversals.

His dad is a cancer though, and will bring him more media attention than would do him good as a young pro trying to find his game.

 
Ricky Rubio and Rajon Rondo have always been terrible shooters. Like leaving them wide open for a three is a viable defense sort of terrible shooters. Whether you think Ball will get his shot off against NBA defenses is a legit concern. Him burying open threes is not a concern though. 

 
the moops said:
Ricky Rubio and Rajon Rondo have always been terrible shooters. Like leaving them wide open for a three is a viable defense sort of terrible shooters. Whether you think Ball will get his shot off against NBA defenses is a legit concern. Him burying open threes is not a concern though. 
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Ball is sort of the antithesis to those two guys though since he does shot well enough in college.  His shot can go in, it's just that it takes so long to get off and comes from such a low position, scouts don't think he'll be able to on a consistent basis unless he pushes out even farther.  Basically they don't know how well he'll do initiating an offense from 28-32 feet versus 23-7 feet.  That's a big difference.  

Of course, all the other guys besides maybe Fultz have warts as well.  Jackson's shot is iffy, Tatum's shot is slow and he tends to settle for long 2s (both big no-no's for SFs in today's NBA), Smith is erratic, Markkanen doesn't really have a position since he can't guard anyone, Fox's shot has problems, Monk has trouble with size as Jackson showed yesterday.  It's tough to know how much is this just nit-picking after bad NCAA tourney performances (ie small sample sizes) and how much of it long-term NBA issues.  This is especially true of all the PGs since running the PnR is so critical these days and besides for Fultz none of them have really shown they can do it consistently.  I won't be surprised if the 2-6 positions in the draft are different in June than they are now.  

 
tjnc09 said:
:lmao:  yeah let's ignore what he did against potential NBA competition in an elimination game. He shot like a scrub and Kentucky's guards scored like a million points.  
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That's not really a fair assessment at all.  I've lived in Southern Cali my entire life and translating a players college performance into what kind of player they will be in the NBA is not an exact science.  Nobody thought that Russell Westbrook would be what he is today back when he was playing at UCLA.   Ball is a true freshman that has an amazing skill set for somebody so young.  His court vision cannot be taught, he has solid handles--and heck---the dude is still probably going to grow another few inches.   His jumpshot has a hitch--but it's not like he has no shooting touch.  Keep in mind--the NBA has shooting coaches that can work with him on that--so his shot will improve--however--you can't teach court vision or height.    Let's also not forget that there is a very good chance that he was playing with a distracted mind against Kentucky.  Apparently his mother is recovering from some sort of medical condition to the point where even his father didn't attend the game in order to be with her.   Am I saying that he for sure will be a superstar at the next level? The answer is "nobody knows"--as there are many moving parts involved. It depends on where he goes, who is coaching him, the system in which he is placed..etc. However, what I will say is that in my opinion-- what he has shown in regards to skill set for somebody his age is easily promising enough to justify considering taking him in the top 3.  

 
Sammy3469 said:
Ball is sort of the antithesis to those two guys though since he does shot well enough in college.  His shot can go in, it's just that it takes so long to get off and comes from such a low position, scouts don't think he'll be able to on a consistent basis unless he pushes out even farther.  Basically they don't know how well he'll do initiating an offense from 28-32 feet versus 23-7 feet.  That's a big difference.  

Of course, all the other guys besides maybe Fultz have warts as well.  Jackson's shot is iffy, Tatum's shot is slow and he tends to settle for long 2s (both big no-no's for SFs in today's NBA), Smith is erratic, Markkanen doesn't really have a position since he can't guard anyone, Fox's shot has problems, Monk has trouble with size as Jackson showed yesterday.  It's tough to know how much is this just nit-picking after bad NCAA tourney performances (ie small sample sizes) and how much of it long-term NBA issues.  This is especially true of all the PGs since running the PnR is so critical these days and besides for Fultz none of them have really shown they can do it consistently.  I won't be surprised if the 2-6 positions in the draft are different in June than they are now.  
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Dunno about Fultz either. Dont watch college sports, Ky-UCLA was the 3rd NCAAM game i've watched this season. 1st one was i clicked past a Wash game when there was nothing on, knew that the BIG frosh was at Wash tho i didnt know his name so i wanted to see him. Watched the entire first half and couldnt determine who the star was. When, late in the half they mentioned that #20 was the talktalktalk i was stunned. Not a good sign.

Was gonna post on this other thing right after Sat's game and have wanted to bring up the phenomenon since last yr's NBA finals, but i dont know how to spell the word "cazh" (short for casual) effectively. Warriors lost the '16 finals cuz of cazh. Steph Curry lost his mojo because the Cavs wouldnt let him be cazh with his game. Lonzo Ball is another guy that seems like he's gotta do it cazh or wont do it at all.

I "get" cazh. Cazh is the coolest thing when you do it right, when you chuck from forever for whynot and it goes, when you smooth a guy outta the ball then do a "look what i found" on the court. But it's not a basis, never a basis for your game. Even Steph had fire when he lit up the NCAAs @ Davidson. DeWhatsis Fox had fire (and that raw, hot JohnWall game) and Lonzo had cazh and never left his cazh so he could make use of his Magic-like gamevision, so Ky won the biggest game of their lives. Cazh -

 
Sammy3469 said:
Ball is sort of the antithesis to those two guys though since he does shot well enough in college.  His shot can go in, it's just that it takes so long to get off and comes from such a low position, scouts don't think he'll be able to on a consistent basis unless he pushes out even farther.  Basically they don't know how well he'll do initiating an offense from 28-32 feet versus 23-7 feet.  That's a big difference.  

Of course, all the other guys besides maybe Fultz have warts as well.  Jackson's shot is iffy, Tatum's shot is slow and he tends to settle for long 2s (both big no-no's for SFs in today's NBA), Smith is erratic, Markkanen doesn't really have a position since he can't guard anyone, Fox's shot has problems, Monk has trouble with size as Jackson showed yesterday.  It's tough to know how much is this just nit-picking after bad NCAA tourney performances (ie small sample sizes) and how much of it long-term NBA issues.  This is especially true of all the PGs since running the PnR is so critical these days and besides for Fultz none of them have really shown they can do it consistently.  I won't be surprised if the 2-6 positions in the draft are different in June than they are now.  
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Get this guy into the wagering thread.

 
timschochet said:
Of course if Ball is Rondo or Jason Kidd I'll be happy about that if the Lakers get him, but selfishly I want more. I want Magic Johnson or Kobe Bryant, somebody who will lead my team back to the NBA Finals where they belong. 
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They belong in Minneapolis 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Hype can have a real  effect on draft stock. I firmly believe that. Different sport, but both Tebow and Manziel are pretty good examples.

You only need to rook one team, not all 30 (or 32) of them. But, I'm not aware of legit draft/college analyst who doesn't think that Ball's a Top 2/3 pick this year. I'm having a hard time believing Lavar can legitimately fool everybody. Or 99% of everybody.
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Manziel was and still is the greatest quarterback prospect to ever come out of college do not @ reply to me.

 
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