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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (2 Viewers)

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SWC said:
true about green always flexing and that type of crap but he was never a nut kicker and curry was never a guy that would try to pull stuff with no name guys like pushing them off of the line on a tipoff thats not stuff that i remember them doing when they were an underdog i just remember it last year ramping up and then become full blown this year i hope that they cool it and get back to bball instead of whatever that is take that to the bank brohans 
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He didn't push anyone off the line.  The dude wasn't on the line so Curry was entitled to cut in front of him.  Even if he was on the line, you are allowed to break up two opposing players toeing the circle.

 
dutch said:
I loved the NBA in the 80's when the Lakers or Celts were predestined to be champs.  MAde the exception years all the more compelling.  Ditto the 90's with the Bulls.  Watching the Knicks and Pacers scratch and claw only to come up short was great theatre even though the outcome was obvious from jump.  Warriors being the dominant team this season is interesting only if they win. Sorta like watching Tiger Woods in his hay day.
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Lakers and the Celtics had each other, and the Bulls really only had 2-3 seasons when they were a favorite at anywhere near the level of these Warriors.  They played a ton of Game 6s.  The Warriors could easily go 4-4-4-4 this year if they care to do so.  

I continue to think people are underestimating this team. They have four of the best 15 players in the league, including probably two of the top 3. They were the winningest team in NBA history last year and they added Kevin ####### Durant. I can't think of anything remotely close to this in any American team sport.

 
listen i still like the dubs and i like there style of play and i am not going to argue about fine points of who can do what my perception of the curry tip off thing was just like i felt about kevin garnett watch me start some crap then run behind my guys and shout hold me back fake toughguy act hey though they will probably win it all this year and well i for one hope that they handle it with a lot of class and prove that anything i felt about senior nutschnoggler and the tip of streetfighter are wrong that is all i am sayin take that to the bank bromigos 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Lakers and the Celtics had each other, and the Bulls really only had 2-3 seasons when they were a favorite at anywhere near the level of these Warriors.  They played a ton of Game 6s.  The Warriors could easily go 4-4-4-4 this year if they care to do so.  

I continue to think people are underestimating this team. They have four of the best 15 players in the league, including probably two of the top 3. They were the winningest team in NBA history last year and they added Kevin ####### Durant. I can't think of anything remotely close to this in any American team sport.
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Your right. Durant is a huge #####.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Lakers and the Celtics had each other, and the Bulls really only had 2-3 seasons when they were a favorite at anywhere near the level of these Warriors.  They played a ton of Game 6s.  The Warriors could easily go 4-4-4-4 this year if they care to do so.  

I continue to think people are underestimating this team. They have four of the best 15 players in the league, including probably two of the top 3. They were the winningest team in NBA history last year and they added Kevin ####### Durant. I can't think of anything remotely close to this in any American team sport.
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I think if Cleveland plays their A Game (we haven't seen it in a long time) they can steal 2 games against the Warriors.  Only because I feel like LeBron is still the dominant player in the league and that counts for a lot in the NBA.  Especially if Curry continues his habit of not showing up in important games.  I don't think there is another team in the league who can even win 1 against GS if they're playing their game.  The west is good but SA isn't talented enough and Houston is mostly a 1 man team.  I was mad when Durant went to GS because I figured as long as he's there we don't have any real reason to pay attention to the league.  And those guys are so young if they stay together we're talking a 5+ year window.  I probably won't watch the finals this year because it's boring.  Or any of the GS series.  But I found the Bulls dominance boring too.  I think pro sports aren't so fun if you know who will win before hand (unless it's your team of course).  If I was a GS fan I'd be loving it.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Lakers and the Celtics had each other, and the Bulls really only had 2-3 seasons when they were a favorite at anywhere near the level of these Warriors.  They played a ton of Game 6s.  The Warriors could easily go 4-4-4-4 this year if they care to do so.  

I continue to think people are underestimating this team. They have four of the best 15 players in the league, including probably two of the top 3. They were the winningest team in NBA history last year and they added Kevin ####### Durant. I can't think of anything remotely close to this in any American team sport.
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Exactly what I would have said about the Lakers and Celts.  The Bulls were no fun for me though.  

About the Warriors...winningest team in NBA history that didn't win the title too.  So, the team that some said was the greatest of all time goes out and gets a guy better than anyone on that team.  That dude is fueled up for a ring too.  What I would have really liked to see.....the Warriors play '16-'17 without Durant and where we would be at right now.  Once he signed, the talk was about Durant, not their Finals collapse.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Lakers and the Celtics had each other, and the Bulls really only had 2-3 seasons when they were a favorite at anywhere near the level of these Warriors.  They played a ton of Game 6s.  The Warriors could easily go 4-4-4-4 this year if they care to do so.  

I continue to think people are underestimating this team. They have four of the best 15 players in the league, including probably two of the top 3. They were the winningest team in NBA history last year and they added Kevin ####### Durant. I can't think of anything remotely close to this in any American team sport.
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probably vince young going to the eagles.

 
Bobcat10 said:
Exactly what I would have said about the Lakers and Celts.  The Bulls were no fun for me though.  

About the Warriors...winningest team in NBA history that didn't win the title too.  So, the team that some said was the greatest of all time goes out and gets a guy better than anyone on that team.  That dude is fueled up for a ring too.  What I would have really liked to see.....the Warriors play '16-'17 without Durant and where we would be at right now.  Once he signed, the talk was about Durant, not their Finals collapse.
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Yup.  

I kind of wish they had talked about going 4-4-4-4.  I know why they didn't, and I know it's an insanely tough task, but it would have added an extra level of fun to their games/series.  Now it's basically a tournament to see if teams can survive until they reach a series with the Warriors. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Two pivotal moments for me and I assume may others on the Warriors:

1. The PC after Game 4 last year.  Two guys who grew up with every possible advantage as wealthy children of NBA players crapping on a guy like LeBron about toughness in the NBA was off-putting. Didn't help that their teammate who was already famous for nut shots had just punched LeBron in the nuts.

2. Durant, obviously.  He of course has every right to play where he wants and the  Warriors obviously should do everything they can to build a dominant team, but fans also have a right to reject it if it negatively affects the game, and IMO it does. The regular season was great and the playoffs are still gonna be awesome and fun, but those things are obviously way better if the champion is unknown.  This championship was decided last July, and barring an injury or another crazy development next year's championship is decided too. That's not appealing to anyone and it's reasonable to dislike the people responsible, even if they're not doing it just to be #######s.
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I think they have a point....

 
Charlie Harper said:
I think they have a point....
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No, they don't.

Most players sell contact, including most Warriors.  LeBron maybe more than average, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top of the list.

I get that as a Warriors fan you don't see how obnoxious and entitled they came off in that PC, but I really do think that's where everything flipped.  Obviously it was building because people always hate dominant teams, but that sped things up considerably and is the reason everyone was so delighted when they got their comeuppance.  It was like a movie script. 

I wouldn't worry about it though.  I doubt you'll care too much about a year old press conference when you're at the parade in June ;)

 
TobiasFunke said:
No, they don't.

Most players sell contact, including most Warriors.  LeBron maybe more than average, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top of the list.

I get that as a Warriors fan you don't see how obnoxious and entitled they came off in that PC, but I really do think that's where everything flipped.  Obviously it was building because people always hate dominant teams, but that sped things up considerably and is the reason everyone was so delighted when they got their comeuppance.  It was like a movie script. 

I wouldn't worry about it though.  I doubt you'll care too much about a year old press conference when you're at the parade in June ;)
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He's right there with Manu and the Clips. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
He's right there with Manu and the Clips. 
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Not even close IMO.

Also it's not really quite the same but what Harden and DeRozan do should be in the conversation with Manu and the Clips.

And the Warriors have their own questionable foul-related issues with all the moving screens.  As does my team; Gortat might be the Michael Jordan of iffy screen-setting.  I think what comes around goes around on the referee front.

 
Seems like it wouldn't be much fun to be Westbrook's teammate. I get that he averaged 10 assists per game, but they're the most grudging assists I've seen since Shaq and Kobe split up.

Also, the uniforms in that OKC/Hou game last night. The whole arena was decked out in red, the Rockets show up in black and the Thunder had their neon tennis ball outfits on. The Rockets weren't horrible, just not good, but those Thunder oranges were awful. They should suspend the whole alternative uniform thing during the playoffs. Going a step further, the only teams allowed to have black unis at all should be the Blazers, Bulls, Spurs and Heat. Maybe the Magic pinstripes, but those kinda suck so probably not.

 
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pollardsvision said:
Celtics and Raps both facing a similar problem, with the best player on the court playing for the opposing team.
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Celtics have the 2nd, 3rd & 4th best players in the series though. 

C's looked like a soft team yesterday outside of IT, the one guy you could excuse for not coming to play. 

I still think they win the series but if they do lose to Chicago the shine will certainly be off Coach Opie.

 
Juxtatarot said:
Who's your 4th?  Crowder? Bradley?  (Personally, I think after Horford there are a handful of 15-ish PER players including Wade and Lopez that aren't too much different in quality.) 
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I put Bradley 4th, I think he is a better player than Wade or Lopez. I'd probably put Crowder 5th but I wouldn't argue someone putting Crowder, Wade and Lopez in any order for 5th-7th.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Not even close IMO.

Also it's not really quite the same but what Harden and DeRozan do should be in the conversation with Manu and the Clips.

And the Warriors have their own questionable foul-related issues with all the moving screens.  As does my team; Gortat might be the Michael Jordan of iffy screen-setting.  I think what comes around goes around on the referee front.
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Agreed. Can't believe I forgot about Harden. Haven't watched much of Derozan to know.

The bolded cracks me up because every team does this. How many moving screens are actually called in an NBA game? 1-2 each game? It's just like holding in football, it could be called almost every play. People just remember the Warriors because it often leads to shimmy back to defense before it goes in 3 pointer.

If we're discussing questionable calls and the Warriors the lack of calls Curry gets is ridiculous.

 
Wade should be coming off the bench. He offers little with the first unit.Hated the signing when it happened (as knew there was no chance he'd come off bench which is where he's best suited at this point) and they didn't need another usage monster. Better things happen when in Butler's and Rondo's hands. Rondo could have had double the assists if Mirotic or Wade could hit an open jump shot. Really good game from Rondo game 1. Just terrific creating off picks and finding guys for wide open shots.

Hopefully at least one of Mirotic/Portis show up every night.

 
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SWC said:
it is funny to me how much i have gone from liking the dubs to not really liking either curry or green any more i am just sort of tired of their act they were so much more likeable when they were not flexing and being punks blah blah blah anyhow on to the bucks i never want to say anything about what will happen in a series after 1 game because teams are hot cold and so on but after one game in the east it seems more open than it has in the past i will say that at least so lets go bangos beat those short eatin dinosaurs from the dinosaur capital of the world toronto take that to the bank bromigos 
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I just want to see anteaternintendo dunk a three pointer 

 
Vince Carter trying to get into Kyle Anderson's mind. :OfficiallyWorried:

Vince Carter: Greatest player ever that has no business in any HoF discussion.

 
Mister CIA said:
Vince Carter trying to get into Kyle Anderson's mind. :OfficiallyWorried:

Vince Carter: Greatest player ever that has no business in any HoF discussion.
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Carter made an all-star game 8 times and made two All-NBA, on top of being one of his generations most iconic stars (Kobe, AI, Shaq, Carter). Deserved or not, he is a lock.

 
Carter became the second (Stockton) non-big man to get at least 500 minutes in his age 40 or later season. The only players to ever log more minutes (1799) than him this year in an age 40 or later season are Stockton, Parish, and Kareem. The way he went from superstar in the early 2000s to complimentary piece in his late 30s/40s is incredible. Not many NBA egos could handle that.

 
Much respect for Fizdale after that rant.  He's standing up for his players.  Love the passion.  

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Not even close IMO.

Also it's not really quite the same but what Harden and DeRozan do should be in the conversation with Manu and the Clips.

And the Warriors have their own questionable foul-related issues with all the moving screens.  As does my team; Gortat might be the Michael Jordan of iffy screen-setting.  I think what comes around goes around on the referee front.
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I don't claim to watch enough NBA to gauge who is the worst at it, but I put LBJ in my top tier.  Maybe it is because I see more of him than anyone else.  I will agree that Harden is right up there, and I categorize Harden as the least fun player to watch personally.  But in my mind what makes what LBJ do so obnoxious is that he is usually the strongest player on the court, yet he will regularly oversell contact, and occasionally try to sell contact when there has been zero.  Say whatever you want about today's NBA, but for a casual fan who is not a fan of him, it makes him look like a gigantic #####.

 
for the hell of it i just want to say that i also do not mind the dubs i do not like green and i still like curry i just want him to cool the hot dog baloney take that to the bank bromigos 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Two pivotal moments for me and I assume may others on the Warriors:

1. The PC after Game 4 last year.  Two guys who grew up with every possible advantage as wealthy children of NBA players crapping on a guy like LeBron about toughness in the NBA was off-putting. Didn't help that their teammate who was already famous for nut shots had just punched LeBron in the nuts.

2. Durant, obviously.  He of course has every right to play where he wants and the  Warriors obviously should do everything they can to build a dominant team, but fans also have a right to reject it if it negatively affects the game, and IMO it does. The regular season was great and the playoffs are still gonna be awesome and fun, but those things are obviously way better if the champion is unknown.  This championship was decided last July, and barring an injury or another crazy development next year's championship is decided too. That's not appealing to anyone and it's reasonable to dislike the people responsible, even if they're not doing it just to be #######s.




 
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1. Yeah, Thompson with the "this is a man's game". I remember laughing at this tough guy.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I don't claim to watch enough NBA to gauge who is the worst at it, but I put LBJ in my top tier.  Maybe it is because I see more of him than anyone else.  I will agree that Harden is right up there, and I categorize Harden as the least fun player to watch personally.  But in my mind what makes what LBJ do so obnoxious is that he is usually the strongest player on the court, yet he will regularly oversell contact, and occasionally try to sell contact when there has been zero.  Say whatever you want about today's NBA, but for a casual fan who is not a fan of him, it makes him look like a gigantic #####.
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I'm guessing part of this is adapting to how he was officiated over time.  His physical strength was a negative at times (getting calls, getting and-1's), even during the playoffs, throughout his first tenure in Cleveland. 

 
Not that it helps or hurts his hall of fame chances, but Carter is probably has the best collections of dunks I have ever seen. Whether break aways, over people  or in dunk contests. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
I don't claim to watch enough NBA to gauge who is the worst at it, but I put LBJ in my top tier.  Maybe it is because I see more of him than anyone else.  I will agree that Harden is right up there, and I categorize Harden as the least fun player to watch personally.  But in my mind what makes what LBJ do so obnoxious is that he is usually the strongest player on the court, yet he will regularly oversell contact, and occasionally try to sell contact when there has been zero.  Say whatever you want about today's NBA, but for a casual fan who is not a fan of him, it makes him look like a gigantic #####.
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I don't understand why you use the word "yet" here.  I think the two are connected.  Because he is the strongest player he has to oversell contact- if people bounce off you or don't impede your progress or shooting motion you're less likely to get calls.

And it's not like he gets more calls than other players with similar usage rates or FG attempt rate.  Here's the list of FT attempts/FG attempts this season. His number is not remarkable considering how much the ball is in his hands even when not shooting, and how often he attacks the basket, and the fact that he's not a particularly good FT shooter so you'd think he'd get some hard fouls to prevent easy buckets in there.  The two SFs ranked nearest to him are Gordon Hayward and Kawhi Leonard, both all-stars, and nobody's compiling youtube videos of their flops.

From a broader standpoint, I don't understand why this stuff bothers fans. I can see why it would annoy players, or fans when someone sells a call that hurts their team.  But athletes in every sport do subtle things to try to influence officiating. Catchers frame pitches off the plate and hitters jump out of the way of inside pitches nowhere near them. WRs flail their arms around on overthrows and beg for PI calls. Hockey players dive. Football and basketball players overreact to after- the-whistle contact to try to draw flagrant fouls and ejections. It's all the same basic thing, and everyone does it.

 
538's forecast for the Eastern Conference winner seems strange to me:

27% Wizards, 17% Cavs, 16% Celtics, 14% Raptors, 13% Bulls, 8% Bucks.

I guess I'm most surprised how much their model loves the Wizards and Bulls.  I would have thought the Cavs would be higher.  I know the Raptors and Celtics took a big hit by losing.

 
Juxtatarot said:
538's forecast for the Eastern Conference winner seems strange to me:

27% Wizards, 17% Cavs, 16% Celtics, 14% Raptors, 13% Bulls, 8% Bucks.

I guess I'm most surprised how much their model loves the Wizards and Bulls.  I would have thought the Cavs would be higher.  I know the Raptors and Celtics took a big hit by losing.
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IIRC the model favors recent play and doesn't account for resting players or guys playing at less than full strength.  It doesn't see a defending champion with LeBron James on the roster that has been coasting on the defensive end for months, it just sees a 51-31 team that is 28-24 (including the playoff wins) in 2017. The Wizards, by comparison, are 35-17 in 2017.

I don't think it's a very useful model.

 
TobiasFunke said:
IIRC the model favors recent play and doesn't account for resting players or guys playing at less than full strength.  It doesn't see a defending champion with LeBron James on the roster that has been coasting on the defensive end for months, it just sees a 51-31 team that is 28-24 (including the playoff wins) in 2017. The Wizards, by comparison, are 35-17 in 2017.

I don't think it's a very useful model.
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Why do you think it's more favorable to the Bulls than the Bucks?

 
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