ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Does anybody in here actually believe the C's will win lotto tomorrow night? I'm all in on the "it's fixed" thing. In my mind, they have a precisely 0% chance.
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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Wrong, Wall is a better overall player than IT, and IT can only play one position. They would have times where they would go small and have them both on the floor and Beal at the 3, but not very often because that lineup would get killed on the boards by James, Love, and Thompson.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It probably would have helped them. I doubt it would have taken 6 games to beat the Heat or whoever finished 8th, I doubt it would have been the Bulls. It also wouldn't have taken 7 games to beat the Wizards.
And yes I do that trade every day.
Watch how awkward his footwork is from :02-:03 when he is guarding Aldridge. He gets his feet crossed (which is basketball 101 never to do as a defender), actually steps on Aldridge's foot, and ends up with his feet behind Aldridge allowing LA a quick, open path to the basket.For sure. But, I cannot fathom a reason why Pachulia took that last step to get his foot under Leonard other than to injure him.
I'm OK with it, morally speaking. I'm glad he did it.
His quickest movement as a perpendicular, out of position defender
07-:08) is to lead with his left foot. He has no time to square his body on an elite shooter like Leonard. I just think he is a big man with awkward footwork trying to stop his momentum. His body is still carrying towards Leonard when he takes that second step even though the shot is in the air. He essentially has less than a second from :36-:37 to make a conscious decision to hurt Leonard. I just find it more likely it was an accident because of how terrible his angle is defending Leonard. Besides, look at how Leonard is going to land on his left foot anyways from :37-:38. I would bet money he severely rolls that ankle even if ZP isn't there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ikx2nXZKdw
Boston
Footballguy
I really don't understand this post...right now this season is mission accomplished...#1 seed, conference finals, the Nets with the worst record in the NBA and all their assets in-place to have a big offseason...Ainge's plan has been dead-on...he has not dealt his assets for a little short-term gain and it has not hurt them...he has taken the long-view and right now they are set-up to have an offseason where they can get into that top-tier of teams and stay their long term (remember they have the Nets pick next year as well as multiple # 1's from other teams in the years to come)...I have felt for sometime that this offseason will be the one where we start to find out whether they will be able to go head-to-head with teams like the Cavs and Warriors...right now I am very optimistic Ainge will be able to do that...
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Weebs210
Footballguy
Breaking news. A homer dosent think his team's player is dirty. Lol.Watch how awkward his footwork is from :02-:03 when he is guarding Aldridge. He gets his feet crossed (which is basketball 101 never to do as a defender), actually steps on Aldridge's foot, and ends up with his feet behind Aldridge allowing LA a quick, open path to the basket.
His quickest movement as a perpendicular, out of position defender
Besides, look at how Leonard is going to land on his left foot anyways from :37-:38. I would bet money he severely rolls that ankle even if ZP isn't there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ikx2nXZKdw
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Both teams finished 17-13 against the West including wins over Golden State in the regular season, butmsudaisy26 said:
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yup. Wall played 44 minutes and Beal played 46, with Wall handling the ballhandling duties during virtually all of his minutes mostly because Brooks didn't have a choice. Wall just ran out of gas at the end. This loss, like many others, is on Ernie Grunfeld.
I'm with you, can't be mad at all. Best season since I was in preschool. Going from 2-8 to the 7th game of the Eastern Conference Semis is a ####### miracle.
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wilked
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
This is spot on. I don't think mortgaging the Nets pick plus ~2 key players (the rumored deals) for a potential 1.5 year rental of a Paul George or even Jimmy Butler would have given them that much better of a chance against the Cavs or Warriors...because those teams are on another level. But it seems there's no reasoning with those whom wanted Ainge to purge himself of those assets for George/Butler, because if the Celts had lost first round it would've been "see, they needed George/Butler...but have fun in the lottery I guess" and now if they lose in the conference finals or heaven forbid finals, it'll be "George/Butler might have made the difference. You have to make the trade for George/Butler when you're this close."
But now Ainge keeps his lottery ticket (which you know, can still be traded this offseason) and whichever guys like Jae, Bradley, etc would have been included in that deal, and on top of this core he also has a ton of cap space to sign a big name free agent this summer. He's worked this rebuild like a maestro. To criticize those non-trades is short-sighted IMO, considering the short-term window is mostly blocked by the Cavs/Warriors.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Basically. It's not a pie in the sky wish- Beal and Porter are both 23, Oubre is 21. All three should improve and Wall and Morris are a ways from decline. The hope at C is presumably that a healthier Mahinmi can spell Gortat a bit more. Beyond that you can build a bench on the cheap; the Wizards problem is they don't have a GM who is up to the task.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Seems laughable that people want to criticize Ainge and the Celtics. They were in the Conference finals in 2012 with an aging, declining team. He has them back in the conference finals in 2017 despite only utilizing one of the three #1 picks he got for trading Pierce and Garnett. Brown is just starting to show his potential and looked great last night. They are sitting on a top 4 pick and I would be happy if they land any of the top 4 players. They can go after a max free agent if they so choose. They also owns the Nets pick next year. What other team is in better shape?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
The west has some bad teams too, and I would like to see the wins. It is conceivable that they swept Suns, Lakers, Kings, T-wolves, and Mavs. I will try to look later, but did the beat the Warriors and other playoff teams when they were resting players?Both teams finished 17-13 against the West including wins over Golden State in the regular season, but
Capella
Footballguy
The warriors and the cavs?
Ainge has done a great job. Superb. The criticism is that people automatically assume the top-4 pick will be better than George or Butler, who are already top-15 or 20 players in the league. That's laughable. That pick has a very slim chance of being that good.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
I don't think that but they will also have control over that pick for a much longer time and a fraction of the money. Additionally, they are still in a position to trade the pick as the centerpiece of a package for a player like the two you named if they decided to go that route. What is laughable is people thinking them not makIng a big trade at the deadline precludes them making one in the offseason.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Do you have a link to where either of those players were available straight up for this year's Nets pick?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Ainge has done a fabulous job, but the NBA is different from all other team sports. Having the most depth usually doesn't win. Now was the time to cash in on that depth, hopefully they can still cash in this off season.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Not that it prevents them from making a trade, but it would have been nice to see how they all fit together through the playoffs and thus easier to address needs in the off season. Plus that pick might have been worth more in season, unless they won the lottery.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
They both beat the Warriors when they were without Durant (he started the game vs the Wiz, that's when he got hurt) but otherwise at full strength. The point is that they are/were both very good teams who would have been 4 or 5 seeds in the West. They're not the Spurs if Kawhi was healthy, but then neither are the current version of the Spurs. The Celts are a 53 win team. The Wizards closed the season going 47-25 after their 2-8 start during Wall's recovery from offseason knee surgery. We're not talking about two .500ish teams who stumbled into a shot at the conference finals.
Capella
Footballguy
I'm talking people's opinions here on the board. I thought that was pretty obvious.
Short Corner
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Cool that you called them the Bullets. Definitely an old school flash to the past. In general I think you are spot on. Their roster is pretty solid and I think trying to keep what they have is a good idea. I will probably get criticized for this--but I also hope that Brooks integrates more of a collective ball movement offense next season. While Brooks is a very good coach--he tends to resort to letting his star players play a lot of isolation offense. He did it in OKC and he seems to be doing it in Washington with Wall and Beal. Looking at Washingtons roster---Porter, Morris, Gortat (who is a good passing big man), Beal, Wall--they are all good passers that are solid enough shooters to where they need to be defended. I think this team could take things to the next level if they integrated a system motion offense that collectively focused on moving the ball as opposed to giving the ball to Wall and spreading things out. It would make them a lot less predictable and much harder to defend in my opinion.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Loved the Celts run this year. Hope they can get a couple of games from Cleveland and think they will.
I'm super pissed about Kawhi's injury, but not necessarily at Zaza. I think he is just a buffoon. Should have been more careful not to keep moving under KL, but I don't think it was intentional.
I also think the Spurs will have a little somethin'-somethin' for the next game. They probably won't win, but I don't think they get run out of the gym. Also don't be surprised if things get real physical and chippy. That's the most fired up I've heard Pop in a while. Wouldn't be surprised if they use it as motivation. Aldridge will have to be a beast and somebody get hot from outside to give them a puncher's chance.
I'm super pissed about Kawhi's injury, but not necessarily at Zaza. I think he is just a buffoon. Should have been more careful not to keep moving under KL, but I don't think it was intentional.
I also think the Spurs will have a little somethin'-somethin' for the next game. They probably won't win, but I don't think they get run out of the gym. Also don't be surprised if things get real physical and chippy. That's the most fired up I've heard Pop in a while. Wouldn't be surprised if they use it as motivation. Aldridge will have to be a beast and somebody get hot from outside to give them a puncher's chance.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
There were plenty of links at the trade deadline that linked the Celtics to those 2 players. How do you find them? I have no idea.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Right. The rumors from what I am recall were along the lines of Nets pick, Crowder, and Bradley for George or Butler. First of all, that's a hefty package. @msudaisy26 is right that superstars, not depth, get you titles. But #### if I'm giving up a potential superstar (top 4 pick) and two key above average role players for the potential that George walks to LA after 2018. And while Butler would be an upgrade offensively, its at best a wash defensively and I'm not sure +Butler -Jae/Bradley is enough to push the Celts into a tier with Cavs/Warriors. They still might not get there even if they strike gold tonight, but it'll be a fun ride for Celts fans.
wilked
Footballguy
Exactly - you won't
It all has to do with the uncertainty of the pick. While it's a deep draft, Fultz is the real prize here. That is why I say I wouldn't flip him for Butler - as noted it's not because I am confident he will be better, but it's a combination of talent, price, and years of control. It also is about moving past the Lebron window - like it or not, the smart strategy is to build the team to peak while he is declining, not to sell off assets and try to go head to head with peak Lebron and have nothing to show on the backside of it.
Capella
Footballguy
You don't have to waste your time on anything. I'm not clinging onto your responses here.
Capella
Footballguy
Crowder and Bradley both had below league average PER this year. They aren't above average at all.
Capella
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Jevale McGee has the 13th highest PER in the NBA this season. He's far from elite. PER by itself is possibly one of the most misguided and incomplete stats to look at in regards to evaluating players. While it shouldn't be ignored--it also cannot be used as the only tool to decide if a player is good, average or below average. Any human being with a basketball IQ could tell you that Crowder and Bradley are better than average NBA players.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Gotta give my laddies some props - at no point in the Bullet series before the 46th minute of last night's game did i think the Celts would win, but they did.
Ainge apparently understands one thing better than anyone else since Larry Siegfried (60s Celt def specialist who ran us pukesilly @ Sam Jones b-ball camp)- that the best basketball starts with your feet. AB had no ball skills, Maaaaaaaaaaaaakus Smaaaaaaaaaat will never have ball skills, Brown has neither ball skills nor the sense God gave sheep. But maaaan, can they get in front of people & make up lost ground. Almost makes the esophageal collapse i'm engendering by groaning thru the Celtic shot portfolio worthwhile.
But it's ALL down to Stevens. Brooks knew just as well as Brad what his guys needed to do to win last nite, and they were better equipped to do so than their opponents. By the way he pleaded with them during the highlighted time outs, though, he knew just as well that they weren't gonna do it. Stevens has a truly motley bunch playing the way he wants and thinking its their idea. Dont know if we realize how remarkable that is in this day. Dont know if he can get a readymade star to buy the program - which is why i'm guessing we never got the Boogie/Butler/George i been praying for and why Hayward is the talk for the next piece when they could a lot more use a Mason Plumlee - but i'd love to see him end the King's reign prematurely by doing so. OK, back to this yr's sweeping pessimism.
Note: Boston's leading morning radio show takes a weekly poll of the first 5 female callers "Would you sleep w Kelly Olynyk?". He has never passed 3-out-of-5 ("He never closes his mouth" "too pubey"). Even this morning, he only got 2 of the 1st 5. Gotta love Boston wimmens.
Ainge apparently understands one thing better than anyone else since Larry Siegfried (60s Celt def specialist who ran us pukesilly @ Sam Jones b-ball camp)- that the best basketball starts with your feet. AB had no ball skills, Maaaaaaaaaaaaakus Smaaaaaaaaaat will never have ball skills, Brown has neither ball skills nor the sense God gave sheep. But maaaan, can they get in front of people & make up lost ground. Almost makes the esophageal collapse i'm engendering by groaning thru the Celtic shot portfolio worthwhile.
But it's ALL down to Stevens. Brooks knew just as well as Brad what his guys needed to do to win last nite, and they were better equipped to do so than their opponents. By the way he pleaded with them during the highlighted time outs, though, he knew just as well that they weren't gonna do it. Stevens has a truly motley bunch playing the way he wants and thinking its their idea. Dont know if we realize how remarkable that is in this day. Dont know if he can get a readymade star to buy the program - which is why i'm guessing we never got the Boogie/Butler/George i been praying for and why Hayward is the talk for the next piece when they could a lot more use a Mason Plumlee - but i'd love to see him end the King's reign prematurely by doing so. OK, back to this yr's sweeping pessimism.
Note: Boston's leading morning radio show takes a weekly poll of the first 5 female callers "Would you sleep w Kelly Olynyk?". He has never passed 3-out-of-5 ("He never closes his mouth" "too pubey"). Even this morning, he only got 2 of the 1st 5. Gotta love Boston wimmens.
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the moops
Footballguy
I can get behind this. However, without knowing whether the pick was #1 or #4 makes it really difficult to come to an agrerement on the trade. If it was known at the time that the pick was # 1, I imagine that the Pacers and/or Bulls wouldn't have asked for much more than that in the trade. And on the flip side, I am not sure that Ainge would necessarily trade the #1.
The chances of a top 4 pick being as good or better is not great. The chances of the #1 pick being that good are decent though. Towns, Davis, Kyrie, Wall, Blake, Rose, Durant (sneaking him in here cause Ainge was all over him) from the past 10 drafts is a prety impressive bunch. And the story isn't finished with Wiggins and Simmons.
It will be interesting if the Celts have the #1 pick. I imagine CHI and IND will both be very interested in moving their guy for that pick.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
He's right - Crowder (best LeBron defender i've seen is why) or Smart was rumored to be a piece in every response to Celt trade offers. Many here are doubting that Danny ever intended to trade for a star. His coach's "buy the program" style and the economic advantage of developing stars from the picks over paying strangers and maxing budget prematurely support that
Village Idiot
Pokerguy
I'm hoping the Lakers win the lottery and pass on taking Lonzo Ball.
Then sit back and laugh at the Lonzo's Dad diatribe.
Then sit back and laugh at the Lonzo's Dad diatribe.
I would love this. For the most part, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Lonzo play this year. Now I find myself trending towards a dislike of him solely because of how asinine his dad is.
Come on Tobias. Using a sample that includes regular season games against garbage like the Lakers and Suns is completely meaningless.Both teams finished 17-13 against the West including wins over Golden State in the regular season, but
scoobus
Footballguy
Analytics are great, but I think a lot of people get tunnel vision when using them. For example, the Spurs defensive efficiency was worse with Leonard on the floor this year. Obviously, that's because there is a much greater chance he is on the floor against teams using their elite offensive players, not because he is a terrible defender.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Exactly. Being that analytics are stat based--players on teams where there is a better environment to pile on stats will inherently have a better chance for higher PER. The Celtics are a well balanced team filled with players that are solid across the board. They have big guys that can pass and several smaller players that grab rebounds..etc . Nobody on that team is going to get the benefit of piling up empty stats like they would on other teams. Also--PER in general doesn't take into account at all if a player is a two way player that is a great defender. Making claims that guys like Bradley and Crowder are below average players solely because their PER is below league average is misguided at best. Both are very solid defenders and happen to play on a team that caps their ability to put up huge stats because of their stacked roster construction.
scoobus
Footballguy
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