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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

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Capella said:
Avery Bradley is definitely the kind of guy a terrible franchise will give a gabillion dollars to. 
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This is unfortunately true. Even tho he's the worst ball handler under 6'3 in the league, he's the best set-it-forget-it defender in the game and has upped his O every year. Perfect complimentary player, @ his present 8mil one of the most valuable assets in the game, but the team that gives him $20mil/per has doomed themselves.

 
modogg said:
I think where we may differ too is the value placed in the celtics young talent. I think jaylen brown is equivalent to Justin Anderson on the Sixers. Fultz has the chance to be a special talent, but I'm not sure the celtics have the top talent on their roster like the Sixers. I would take Embiid, and probably Simmons, over anybody on that roster. A lot of unheralded guys on Sixers roster that  are good role players forward. Covington really should be in conversation for all-defense team, etc. 
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This year's #1 pick is the most valuable asset on either team's roster. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
The only thing of substance worth discussing for 2017-2018 is the Cavs & Warriors. Maybe the Celts make it a little interesting, but let's be real, still a two horse race next season. 

The Warriors are clearly the superior team, so what can the Cavs do; so far I've seen an Irving for CP3 and Love for PG trade discussed on various outlets. While these trades will make noise, I don't think it'll really do anything to help the Cavs improve. Chris Paul is 32 and Irving is awesome, not a huge fan of that move, although CP3 will spread it around a little better, you need Irving's awesome scoring ability against the high powered Warriors. I can understand the argument from both sides, but I like the Irving side. Paul George for Love I find a little more interesting and might bump them a small notch, but still won't get them close to being the better team. 

The first thing the Cavs really need to address is their bench, they need some talent - it was a nice career for Williams, but he shouldn't be resigned. JR Smith / Shumpert, meh. I don't know what the answer is, but if they don't address this, they have zero chance IMO.
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IMO Cavs need:

get rid of shumpert, he is an offensive and a defensive liability now.

I think they should keep smith/korver

Keep Irvine

Move Love and try for PG/Butler/Carmelo

I have mixed feelings about TT but if they can they should try to move him and find someone who can rebound/defend while not being an offensive liability.

Not sure how many of these are feasible unfortunately.

 
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Thanks to all the regulars for making the last NBA season much more enjoyable. I'll try to limit myself to one Penthouse Forum-style John Wall post a month next season.

 
need2know said:
Really hope the sixers take Fox at pick 3
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I have no idea what I want them to do at 3. Seems a ton up in the air, and for all the hype about how this is one of the best draft classes, I am not sure I buy it. I am likely the farthest from a talent evaluator for potential NBA players, but it seems that everyone outside of Fultz has serious question marks that most can be overcome, but if they aren't the draftee will be a big bust.

I am thinking more that the Lakers pass on Ball and the Sixers will take him. I have heard both the pro's and con's of that from people who seem to analyze basketball well. For me, most important is getting Embiid and Simmons 100% healthy for the year and injury free for all of it (hopefully). The draftee coming in will likely be a good role player, but won't mean much if Embiid (and hopefully Simmons) can't play at the level they can

 
modogg said:
I have no idea what I want them to do at 3. Seems a ton up in the air, and for all the hype about how this is one of the best draft classes, I am not sure I buy it. I am likely the farthest from a talent evaluator for potential NBA players, but it seems that everyone outside of Fultz has serious question marks that most can be overcome, but if they aren't the draftee will be a big bust.

I am thinking more that the Lakers pass on Ball and the Sixers will take him. I have heard both the pro's and con's of that from people who seem to analyze basketball well. For me, most important is getting Embiid and Simmons 100% healthy for the year and injury free for all of it (hopefully). The draftee coming in will likely be a good role player, but won't mean much if Embiid (and hopefully Simmons) can't play at the level they can
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It seems the Lakers are wavering on ball to me too.  It makes too much sense for them to take him though and I think they will.  We need guards.  

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I do not see how a Love for Carmello swap helps them in anyway. Melo does nothing as well as Love, except for maybe driving to the basket.
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Admittedly, I haven't seen Melo play in a while...but he used to be an elite scorer.  He can shoot, drive, post and has both a mid-range and outside game.  When he was on, he was unstoppable.  Love has never had that kind of game.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
I do not see how a Love for Carmello swap helps them in anyway. Melo does nothing as well as Love, except for maybe driving to the basket.
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Mainly so LeBron can rest and not have 10 straight unanswered points. A motivated melo will actually play defense. He doesn't average that much less than love on the boards and can still hit open 3s. 

 
Jayrod said:
Admittedly, I haven't seen Melo play in a while...but he used to be an elite scorer.  He can shoot, drive, post and has both a mid-range and outside game.  When he was on, he was unstoppable.  Love has never had that kind of game.
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He's still a good scorer - but so is Love if he's the only game in town. I should have added "post game" to what Melo is better at though, as well. Love is a better shooter than Melo and creates more space for LeBron and Irving (Melo would further clog the inside).

I guess at best it would be a wash imo - how many more points a game would you expect Melo to score than Love did, as the third option on offense? Love is a big body on defense and a better rebounder. Melo is a pretty bad defender, worse than Love even.

 
The next step in super teams is for someone like Lebron to take a minimum contract to open up cap room for more star players to play together. He can afford it, but that might not go over well for the NBAPA VP.

Ignoring the NBAPA issue, it is probably more of a consideration for next season. For example, suppose Paul goes to the Spurs this offseason; James could then go to the Spurs for 2018-19 to team with Paul, Leonard, and Pop. If he took the vet minimum, the Spurs might be able to add another vet star to that group. Regardless, even with another 2 years of age for Paul and Lebron, that would be a strong contender.

 
Kevin love is a very good player that can do lots of things well.  The thing that drives me crazy with him is his consistency.  He has too many games where he is mia.  Add in the injury history and if they can move him to bring in melo they have to do it

 
this makes no sense to me:

Adrian Wojnarowksi of The Vertical believes that LeBron James could leave the Cavaliers in 2018.

"Not only is there no guarantee he’s coming back, I’m not sure there’s an expectation he’s re-signing there," Wojnarowski said. "I think they feel, I think within Cleveland and around the league, they feel that he’s very much in play to leave again and likely head out West to one of the two L.A. teams. The Lakers could very well be a target." Woj mentions the Lakers, Clippers and Heat as potential destinations, and he added that LeBron's title with Cleveland last year means he's "liberated to leave again." LeBron has one year left on his deal with a player option for a second, but the Cavs certainly have a reason to be nervous.

I think this points to the silliness of NBA reporting between now and the draft/end of free agency. Why in the world would Lebron go to the Clippers when everyone seems to be leaving, and the Lakers seem to do a great PR job getting every All-Star in the NBA every year.

 
Isaac is only working out for the top 4 teams - it's unclear if he has a promise or he's just being optimistic. Assuming we can read something into that decision, it seems like there's a strong possibility that the draft goes Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac, and Fox. 

 
modogg said:
this makes no sense to me:

Adrian Wojnarowksi of The Vertical believes that LeBron James could leave the Cavaliers in 2018.

"Not only is there no guarantee he’s coming back, I’m not sure there’s an expectation he’s re-signing there," Wojnarowski said. "I think they feel, I think within Cleveland and around the league, they feel that he’s very much in play to leave again and likely head out West to one of the two L.A. teams. The Lakers could very well be a target." Woj mentions the Lakers, Clippers and Heat as potential destinations, and he added that LeBron's title with Cleveland last year means he's "liberated to leave again." LeBron has one year left on his deal with a player option for a second, but the Cavs certainly have a reason to be nervous.

I think this points to the silliness of NBA reporting between now and the draft/end of free agency. Why in the world would Lebron go to the Clippers when everyone seems to be leaving, and the Lakers seem to do a great PR job getting every All-Star in the NBA every year.
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Someone should keep track of all these big wigs predictions over the next year to see how many times they contradict themselves and how many different scenarios they spin.

Since the day he signed a 1 and 1 in Cle, everyone has known he could leave again.  He's maximizing his salary (after being "underpaid" most of his career...another reason why he's not signing a vet min contract anytime soon) now that the cap has exploded and allowing flexibility so he's in control, not the team.

 
modogg said:
this makes no sense to me:

Adrian Wojnarowksi of The Vertical believes that LeBron James could leave the Cavaliers in 2018.

"Not only is there no guarantee he’s coming back, I’m not sure there’s an expectation he’s re-signing there," Wojnarowski said. "I think they feel, I think within Cleveland and around the league, they feel that he’s very much in play to leave again and likely head out West to one of the two L.A. teams. The Lakers could very well be a target." Woj mentions the Lakers, Clippers and Heat as potential destinations, and he added that LeBron's title with Cleveland last year means he's "liberated to leave again." LeBron has one year left on his deal with a player option for a second, but the Cavs certainly have a reason to be nervous.

I think this points to the silliness of NBA reporting between now and the draft/end of free agency. Why in the world would Lebron go to the Clippers when everyone seems to be leaving, and the Lakers seem to do a great PR job getting every All-Star in the NBA every year.
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LeBron is calling every non-Dub whose contract is up this year or next - some combo of Paul, George, Westy, Griff, Boogie, IT, Melo, even his olboy Wade - and tellin 'em "I'ma let Microsoft boy & Magic fight over which LA team hosts the DreamTeam i'm putting together - we all sign one-years @ $15mil/per, maybe get hundreds a mil in personal service deals from Microboy backrolling a brand new apparel/lifestyle company, and knock the goatees & mouthpieces out dem chins up the coast, whatsay?!

 
Weebs210 said:
Mainly so LeBron can rest and not have 10 straight unanswered points. A motivated melo will actually play defense. He doesn't average that much less than love on the boards and can still hit open 3s. 
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Melo's career average of 6.6 (which is about where he's been the last three years as well) is not much less than Love's 11.5 career average (more like 10 the last three years in Cle)?  That's a pretty loose useage of "not that much."

 
wikkidpissah said:
LeBron is calling every non-Dub whose contract is up this year or next - some combo of Paul, George, Westy, Griff, Boogie, IT, Melo, even his olboy Wade - and tellin 'em "I'ma let Microsoft boy & Magic fight over which LA team hosts the DreamTeam i'm putting together - we all sign one-years @ $15mil/per, maybe get hundreds a mil in personal service deals from Microboy backrolling a brand new apparel/lifestyle company, and knock the goatees & mouthpieces out dem chins up the coast, whatsay?!
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Okay, I'm ready for my first hot take of this thread:

Lebron will no longer be the best player in the league in 2018-2019 & will need to assemble an all-star team to beat the Dubs (assuming the core stays in tact).

 
Bull Dozier said:
Melo's career average of 6.6 (which is about where he's been the last three years as well) is not much less than Love's 11.5 career average (more like 10 the last three years in Cle)?  That's a pretty loose useage of "not that much."
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Let's round up 6.6, so 3 a game difference isn't worth letting LeBron rest more than 2 minutes a game? Love cannot create on his own anymore and is super incosisnet. 

 
Woj reported KD to Warriors. 

LBJ to LA does not surprise me. He sees the writing on the wall. Cavs really don't have an avenue to improve, just like how the Heat were stuck. Plus, he has a home in L.A.

 
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modogg said:
this makes no sense to me:

Adrian Wojnarowksi of The Vertical believes that LeBron James could leave the Cavaliers in 2018.

"Not only is there no guarantee he’s coming back, I’m not sure there’s an expectation he’s re-signing there," Wojnarowski said. "I think they feel, I think within Cleveland and around the league, they feel that he’s very much in play to leave again and likely head out West to one of the two L.A. teams. The Lakers could very well be a target." Woj mentions the Lakers, Clippers and Heat as potential destinations, and he added that LeBron's title with Cleveland last year means he's "liberated to leave again." LeBron has one year left on his deal with a player option for a second, but the Cavs certainly have a reason to be nervous.

I think this points to the silliness of NBA reporting between now and the draft/end of free agency. Why in the world would Lebron go to the Clippers when everyone seems to be leaving, and the Lakers seem to do a great PR job getting every All-Star in the NBA every year.
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I don't give this a lot of credence. Woj hates LeBron and tries to trash public perception of him a lot. And the language here reads more like semi-educated guessing than substantive reporting. "I'm not sure," "I think they feel," etc.  No "sources in the organization believe..." or anything like that.

He might leave some day, and LA makes sense for all the usual reasons. But I'm not sure it's any more likely today than it was three weeks or eleven months ago.

BTW if he did go to LA in the near future (before another East team emerges as a real contender) it would be disastrous for the league and particularly TNT and ESPN. It's pretty clear at the moment that the league is the Warriors and whoever LeBron plays for and then everyone else, and they can't have both of their main draws tipping off at 10:30 PM eastern time.

 
Weebs210 said:
Let's round up 6.6, so 3 a game difference isn't worth letting LeBron rest more than 2 minutes a game? Love cannot create on his own anymore and is super incosisnet. 
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I'm not disagreeing that Carmelo offers some stuff that Love doesn't, but the two being a wash on the boards isn't one of them.  Love was an 11+ guy a night, and a one time league leader before playing along side another legit rebounder in Thompson.  I'm sure Carmelo playing along side Thompson would drop his rebounds to the 4-5 range

 
Charlie Harper said:
Woj reported KD to Warriors. 

LBJ to LA does not surprise me. He sees the writing on the wall. Cavs really don't have an avenue to improve, just like how the Heat were stuck. Plus, he has a home in L.A.
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Over a year in advance of when he was able to join the Warriors?  Woj is getting clicks right now.  He's not reporting Lebron to one team.  Maybe he's right too in the end, but he's just speculating and is telling us that by saying "I think".

 
msudaisy26 said:
Can LeBron be seen by the masses as the GOAT if he is jumping teams and chasing titles?  
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Honestly I'm not sure he cares.  He seems pretty content.  And if anyone is evaluating whether someone is the greatest basketball player of all time based on anything other than whether they were better than everyone else at playing basketball, they're pretty obviously doing it wrong.

 
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