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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (4 Viewers)

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Ghost Rider said:
Why would he?  If James leaves next year, the Cavs become the wasteland of the NBA again. 
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I think the opposite concern is just as valid. Being GM for a LeBron team isn't always smiles and sunshine, could be a rough initiation into the GM world. I think you'd rather be at a place with low expectations to begin with.

 
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Who would have the stones to trade Lebron? Hell who would have the stones to accept that trade?

Also is there such a thing as a no trade clause in the NBA? Not really sure.

 
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Insein said:
Who would have the stones to trade Lebron? Hell who would have the stones to accept that trade?

Also is there such a thing as a no trade clause in the NBA? Not really sure.
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99.999999% chance it would never happen (and I'm sure LeBron has a no trade, though he may not've even bothered with it since the Cavs would never do it). The money he makes for the Cavs is a non-starter, plus LeBron is not an idiot like Carmelo. When he leaves, he's not going to a place that has to trade away everything of value to get him.

But it's an interesting thought, and I could see where it would make some sense. Kyrie is still only 24. I could see it making sense as a move to try to keep Kyrie around, and a massive haul of young assets for LeBron would probably be their best basketball move going forward.

Of course they won't though, and the Cavs already have their post-LeBron formula. Just go get the 3 or 4 #1 overall picks in a row. Not like it's hard.

 
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Baloney Sandwich said:
Cap comes in $2M lose than expected
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Yeah...it mean Cs have to jettison a nice piece to get enough room now (ie trade down, trade Zizic/Yabasele, trade Smart...something like that). 

And Phil is a moron.  I just hope the next 24 hours go by and KP is still a Knick.  Typical Knicks to crap on one of the best days of the year.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Yeah...it mean Cs have to jettison a nice piece to get enough room now (ie trade down, trade Zizic/Yabasele, trade Smart...something like that). 

And Phil is a moron.  I just hope the next 24 hours go by and KP is still a Knick.  Typical Knicks to crap on one of the best days of the year.
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If Dolan wasn't so incompetent, I would say that either KP and Melo are both gone before the season starts, or Phil Jackson is fired. You can't trash your own players like that and then fail to trade them. But since Dolan is a moron intent on ruining one of the most storied franchises in US sports, I'm sure Jackson will survive.

I know that being a coach and being a GM are different animals, but Phil Jackson is not doing much to dispel the argument that he benefited greatly from having unbelievable talent on his teams more than his teams benefited from his coaching. He has demonstrated some pretty extreme incompetence in pretty much every area as a GM to the point of even overstepping his role and trying to force the stupid triangle offense on a team it doesn't fit in an era where it doesn't work.

 
Insein said:
Who would have the stones to trade Lebron? Hell who would have the stones to accept that trade?

Also is there such a thing as a no trade clause in the NBA? Not really sure.
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Yes. A player has to have 8 years of experience and 4 with the current team. Lebron has a no trade clause in his current contract.

 
The Knicks with Jackson remind me of the end of the Pitino era with the Celtics...you wake up every morning praying he hasn't made a trade because you know he is inept and a loose cannon and it will be another step backwards...

 
Boston said:
The Knicks with Jackson remind me of the end of the Pitino era with the Celtics...you wake up every morning praying he hasn't made a trade because you know he is inept and a loose cannon and it will be another step backwards...
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The New York Knicks: Where HoFers go to ruin their legacies since 2003.

 
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KP story is smoke and mirrors.

Phil just smoking weed in front of a mirror talking about the triangle.

 
thecatch said:
If NYK is hitting the reset button, Bledsoe doesn't fit on their timeline. 
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I don't think they are hitting the reset button as much as flailing around mindlessly. At the same time Bledsoe is only 27 and wouldn't be the worst fit next to carmelo. 

 
It's really weird but people in NYC are legitimately shook, just waiting for the inevitable Porzingis trade to be announced. 

 
I hate hearing the Cavs players are talking Butler into not coming.  I'd love to see Kyrie or Lebron as a Bull.  Kyrie and Butler seem to be very close.  I hope the Bulls can trade a pick and future firsts for the guy if LeBron bolts.

 
Max Power said:
I hate hearing the Cavs players are talking Butler into not coming.  I'd love to see Kyrie or Lebron as a Bull.  Kyrie and Butler seem to be very close.  I hope the Bulls can trade a pick and future firsts for the guy if LeBron bolts.
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I can't comprehend the Bulls having the trade assets to get Kyrie anytime in the next few years.

 
Juxtatarot said:
I can't comprehend the Bulls having the trade assets to get Kyrie anytime in the next few years.
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They really dont.  I just want Jimmy to win something...

My .001% approach is that I hope with Wade re-signing, Lebron forces a trade, Carmelo trades for jack ####, and CP3 comes for a penny.  The Super friends make a run at the title with Chicago. 

Story book ending for the 4.

 
modogg said:
we have discussed this already a ton and can revisit after all the excitement, but i'll argue the bolded/underline. if this is true, why are there so many chronically bad teams? i don't think most GMs could do it as efficiently and draw as much blood from a stone. he had literally 1, maybe 2 assets of value.

we'll see if he chooses to rejoin the league. Guarantee he has a job if he wants, question is does he really want to come back. i have heard Mavs and Clippers, both would benefit greatly with him
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Why because a lot of teams would rather not rebuild and just poorly ran IMHO. Theres a lot of teams who don't want to rebuild lose ticket sales etc. Hinkie drew as much blood as possible because I don't think he really cared about what the league though. I remember hearing reports that the NBA as a whole wasn't liking Hinkie and dealing with him do to how he thumbed his nose at them and teams were pretty upset because they knew the Sixers were blatantly tanking but couldn't do anything about it unless the Sixers admitted to it. There's no issue with saying Hinkie caught a few breaks and some luck in there,Because you need that if you are gonna tank

This above is something I really don't get. I know he had a 1 yr no compete clause as I like to call it but his year was up before the season. If teams really wanted him I would think teams would've been banging the door down for him. I remember on Zach Lowe's podcast I believe it was and whoever it was with him they said they don't think anyone would take Hinkie except maybe the Rockets. Thats what I don't get right now if people would really want him and he's guaranteed a job in the nBA if he wanted it why isn't anyone knocking down the door? 

 
Insein said:
Hinkie absolutely would have moved to 1. That's exactly what he was talking about with optionality. You aquire assets to set yourself up to strike when the time is right.

People are under this notion that Hinkie wanted to keep tanking forever. No he was tearing it down to build it up. He got axed because the league didn't like him putting D League lineups out there to blatantly do what every team does. 

The sad part is, I really wanted to see what he could do on the climb up. I know he'd have moved Okafor. Probably after his first year when his value was highest. If they never would have been on his back to get in line he probably would have drafted Porzingis knowing his love of European players. But all that is in the past. 

I didn't like Collangelo or how he came in. Didn't like his moves this year but he made the move to #1 and I give him credit for only giving up 1 pick to do it. Let's see what he does from there. 
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Porzingus basically refused to come here. He wasn't gonna waste a pick on a guy who wouldn't come here. Porzingus could easily just say I was staying in Europe. I think after that first year people knew what Okafor was. Guys with his skillset were already being benched not signed in FA or playing less mins. I don't know how you could say Hinkie would absolutely would've traded for the #1 pick. I honestly think he'd have tried but in the end when AInge asks for either LA or the Sac pick he'd have walked away. One one of the reasons Colagelo was brought in was he knew how to turn those assets over. I remember discussing this with a few people and they basically agreed that COlangelo was better for the future of the team because he knew how to make moves to use those assets on. People thought he was tanking more because of all the guys he drafted and what not he started to trade. It seemed people were jumping off the bandwagon of Hinkie's like that said before. I get why some of those guys were traded he acquired however.

I don't think you can hate Collangelo right now. Some of those moves were made because of certain things Hinkie did. People think Hinkie was this geniuses but he's the one who created the C problem and left the team with no PG. Look TJ is a nice guy off the bench he's just not a starting PG. So BC had to go stop the logjam at C find a PG and find some more guys who could shoot last year. Like I said before one of my biggest beefs here is the amount of Credit people will give Hinkie but then when BC makes a move he's an idiot or won't give him credit for it. I don't fault BC for his trade of Noel. Financially with Embiid it makes no sense but teams weren't bailing the Sixers out of a jam and sending back good value just like no one should bail Cle out and send them anything of value. 

 
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tommyGunZ said:
Agreed.  This is what Philly and Boston have been acquiring assets for - they should be feasting on this opportunity.  
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except Boston actually stayed competitive and never really tanked during the whole ordeal. Aigne made great trades and got assets that way. That Next trade really helped set them up for where they are now. 

 
Chemical X said:
dont like hezonja cause i hate that pig mirotic and they seem identical.
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Mirotic and Hzonja are nothing alike. Mirotic is pretty mellow where Hezonja is more of an in your face Im gonna rub it in. Remember in the FIBA tourney after he got drafted he hit a three looked at the other teams bench and I think trash talked a coach. 

 
DJackson10 said:
except Boston actually stayed competitive and never really tanked during the whole ordeal. Aigne made great trades and got assets that way. That Next trade really helped set them up for where they are now. 
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Because they got the Herschel Walker deal x 10 from Brooklyn. That's how they could afford to get better and not tank. They had a top 5 pick every year for 4 years while striving to be competitive.  Those only come along once every 40 years or so.

 
RUSF18 said:
It's really weird but people in NYC are legitimately shook, just waiting for the inevitable Porzingis trade to be announced. 
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I'm meeting up with my buddy after work to go watch the draft, and we both said that if they trade Porzingis we're done with the Knicks (Sixers bandwagon?).

I nearly bailed during the Isiah years, but Phil is actually making his look better.

 
Max Power said:
They really dont.  I just want Jimmy to win something...

My .001% approach is that I hope with Wade re-signing, Lebron forces a trade, Carmelo trades for jack ####, and CP3 comes for a penny.  The Super friends make a run at the title with Chicago. 

Story book ending for the 4.
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The soonest that could happen is 2 years from now when Wade would be 37, LeBron and Melo would be 34, and Paul would be 33. That strikes me as an aging group that would live in the trainer's office and might not make it through the season.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The soonest that could happen is 2 years from now when Wade would be 37, LeBron and Melo would be 34, and Paul would be 33. That strikes me as an aging group that would live in the trainer's office and might not make it through the season.
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Not that it will happen - of course - but re-read what he said.

 
Insein said:
Because they got the Herschel Walker deal x 10 from Brooklyn. That's how they could afford to get better and not tank. They had a top 5 pick every year for 4 years while striving to be competitive.  Those only come along once every 40 years or so.
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James Young & Jaylen 'Trumphands' Brown have been the only benefit (except the great Crash Wallace & the 3rd Mr Kardashian, i think, who came as cap equalizers) the Celts have yet received from the Jersey trade

 
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wikkidpissah said:
James Young & Jaylen 'Trumphands' Brown have been the only benefit (except the great Crash Wallace & the 3rd Mr Kardashian, i think, who came as cap equalizers) the Celts have yet received from the Jersey trade
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The point is they didn't have to tank cause they knew they'd have a top 5 pick every year. Do you see any other team with that benefit? Lakers would have loved to not have to tank. Same with the Suns, Knicks, etc.  I know for sure if the Sixers could have traded Lou Williams, Bynum and Evan Turner for 4 top 5 first round picks while building up and keeping Iguodola, we'd all have signed up for that deal.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
There's about 20 to 25 teams that should start tanking now to prepare for having a chance to be great in the post LeBron era.
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There's something else to be considered with all this rebuilding - owners.

For all his faults, DGilbert let LBJ's machinations subsume his entire profit margin in penalty taxes. The Dubs can keep their roster intact a couple more years, but ownership will be giving up anything they'd receive beyond increase in franchise value when they start paying 2nd-yr penalties on KD and those on Curry's max deal. I continue to wonder that the motivation behind Danny Ainge's draftpick accumulation lies more in mgmt not wanting to go into penalty to field a team. And we've yet to have the first 5yr max deal signed yet. 

Speaking of which, looking at what the Celts have to divest just to sign a 2nd 30mil guy, i'm guessing any non-finalist team who signs a player to one of those 5yr/$200 mil montrosities has given up their chance to build their contender further for the duration.

 
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Insein said:
Because they got the Herschel Walker deal x 10 from Brooklyn. That's how they could afford to get better and not tank. They had a top 5 pick every year for 4 years while striving to be competitive.  Those only come along once every 40 years or so.
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they also do not have the ceiling the Sixers have. Realistically, the Sixers should have the core of Embiid, Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Simmons for the next 7-9 years. They have tons of cap space too, which Boston does not have. 

Outside of Celtics fans, i would think most would rather be in Philly position rather than Boston. Boston is certainly sexier in the present, but lot more questions in the next 2-3 years. Injuries aside (which we all know is not possible), SIxers are in a better situation because of Hinkie and Colangelo now. 

Not sure why DJackson has the hate for Hinkie, it is strange to constantly discount the guy when the team is still reaping the benefits. i get the idea of not being a fan of tanking, but as a fan of the team that actually did, we sucked it up for 3 years to reap a legit chance at a championship in the future. 

 
modogg said:
they also do not have the ceiling the Sixers have. Realistically, the Sixers should have the core of Embiid, Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Simmons for the next 7-9 years. They have tons of cap space too, which Boston does not have. 

Outside of Celtics fans, i would think most would rather be in Philly position rather than Boston. Boston is certainly sexier in the present, but lot more questions in the next 2-3 years. Injuries aside (which we all know is not possible), SIxers are in a better situation because of Hinkie and Colangelo now. 

Not sure why DJackson has the hate for Hinkie, it is strange to constantly discount the guy when the team is still reaping the benefits. i get the idea of not being a fan of tanking, but as a fan of the team that actually did, we sucked it up for 3 years to reap a legit chance at a championship in the future. 
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I think DJax knows this guy who heard from this kid who is cousins with some dude who said that Hinkie kicks puppies...or something like that.

 
modogg said:
they also do not have the ceiling the Sixers have. Realistically, the Sixers should have the core of Embiid, Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Simmons for the next 7-9 years. They have tons of cap space too, which Boston does not have. 

Outside of Celtics fans, i would think most would rather be in Philly position rather than Boston. Boston is certainly sexier in the present, but lot more questions in the next 2-3 years. Injuries aside (which we all know is not possible), SIxers are in a better situation because of Hinkie and Colangelo now. 

Not sure why DJackson has the hate for Hinkie, it is strange to constantly discount the guy when the team is still reaping the benefits. i get the idea of not being a fan of tanking, but as a fan of the team that actually did, we sucked it up for 3 years to reap a legit chance at a championship in the future. 
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Disagreed, Boston might have the best coach in the East. That plays a larger role than I think you're giving credit.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I'm meeting up with my buddy after work to go watch the draft, and we both said that if they trade Porzingis we're done with the Knicks (Sixers bandwagon?).

I nearly bailed during the Isiah years, but Phil is actually making his look better.
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Isaiah was surprisingly good at drafting. Unfortunately his FA signings were #### and he traded premium picks for bums, but when he actually was picking, he did a real good job. 

 
Carrol Dawson on how Hinkie was treated by the media and some fans in Philly....

"There was this kid I was in a Front Office with; he was younger than me. Sorta looked up to me, you know. We did our first work together, worked our way out of the arena in Houston. Things were good, we made the most of it. During the Duncan Era, we used analytics to pick off talent and flip them for draft picks... got Dwight Howard...James Harden, too. As much as anyone, I loved him and trusted him. Later on he had an idea to build a championship basketball team out of a two bit East Coast city that was a train stop-over for fans on their way to the Boston Garden. That kid's name was Sam Hinkie, and the team he invented was the Philadelphia 76ers. This was a great man, a man of vision and guts. And there isn't even a plaque, or a signpost or a statue of him in that town! Someone put a pink slip in his mailbox. No one knows who gave the order. When I heard it, I wasn't angry; I knew Sam, I knew he was head-strong, liked obscure analytics, thought outside the box. So when he turned up fired, I let it go. And I said to myself, this is the business we've chosen; I didn't ask who gave the order, because it had nothing to do with business!"

 
MY Suns are going after Jimmy Buckets, eat our dust baby T-wolves. Hey Clippers,  objects in mirror are closer than they appear. 

 
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