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Footballguy
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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (1 Viewer)
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Kev4029
Footballguy
They aren't trading the pick as it was a draft day trade, they would be trading the players taken at that pick, technically. Draft picks for the current draft, traded the day of the draft, aren't subject to the Stepien Rule.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'm just more so going on what was said in an opinion here in the playoff thread how LeBron never had to really play with in a system and how a better coach then Lue would've helped Cleveland and got the most out of those guys
I see what you're saying here and it makes sense. The Warriors had 147 assists versus the Cavaliers 108 during the Finals and that definitely tells you the difference between sharing the ball.
Insein
Footballguy
It also doesn't count as an assist if the shooter doesn't make it. So the key was GS making the shots. They shot .475 to Cleveland .461. They would still have more assists but it'd probably be a lot closer (and the series too) if the Cavs role players made some shots.
need2know
Footballguy
Cavs role players were so bad. Korver made like 2 threes all series. Deron Williams was a total non factor, could go on and on
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
George to Cleveland, Love to Denver, and crap (Faried included) to Indiana being discussed according to Stein.
Kev4029
Footballguy
The Nuggets would possibly have the best offense ever with Love at the four (that is not a hyperbolic statement), but holy #### would they be awful defensively. They would be playing 140-135 games. It would be glorious. Are these talks still going on or was this just during the draft?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Saw it on twitter today but no clue if it's just another rumor or truly has legs. Actually saw a follow-up that Cleveland would get Faried and lose Shumpert. No idea what Indiana gets out of the deal but Cleveland should be giving up more than Love and Shumpert for George and Faried.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Here is my proposal from a Nuggets fan. Cleveland sends out a 2021 first to the Pacers.
Nuggets are about money neutral on the trade, leaving them tons of money to chase another free agent. The Pacers get a couple young prospects and a first rounder after the Cavs should be very bad. The Cavs get a perfect complement to Lebron for a year, an upgrade at backup PG, and a nice regular season PF before they go super small in the 2018 finals with Lebron at the 5 and George at the 4.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
Its no fleecing of the Bulls for Butler from a basketball standpoint, but it would make for some really fun basketball.
mr fancypants
Footballguy
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Kev4029
Footballguy
This would put the Money coached teams to shame. The pace would be a bit slower but the efficiency would be otherworldly.
They likely would have a higher scoring offense, although not better. They would need to outscore due to their terrible defense.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think they had the best Ortg in the league after Jokic took over as starting center in mid-December. For the season they finished about 2pts per 100 possessions behind the Warriors (the Nuggets we're the 35th most efficient offense since 1974). Switch out Nelson for a healthy sophomore Murray and Love for Faried, and they could absolutely push the Warriors nba record Ortg of 115.6 for a season.
If nuggs get love for faried/scraps they have to take that deal. Pick up a stud defender at sf and hope for the best. Or just go pure scorer and shoot for 150 pts/game
Kev4029
Footballguy
I would rather have Millsap but this would come at a much smaller financial risk and would leave them money to make another FA signing (Porter?).
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I think Murray is very good and he did very well off the bench this year. Is he going to start next year? I hope so.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Murray played all 82 games last season with a sports hernia too. With as high as the Nuggets FO is on Murray (wouldn't include him in Butler trades), I have to assume he is the starter next season. If he can guard PGs, which he didn't do too terribly last season, he is a great fit next to Jokic at PG.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
I don't think he has a path to significant playing time at SG. Harris is legit and can't play SF, so Murray would only get mop up minutes. FWIW, 82games has him at a 15.2 PER as a PG and 11.4 as a SG. Not all of the difference is because he was a better as a PG (playing next with the starting lineup rather than backups, not playing with Nelson/Mudiay on the court, the Nuggets had given up on the Nurkic/Jokic lineup to name a few), but it shows he is a capable PG.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Ok as long as he remains eligible at SG on fantasy basketball too I am fine with that.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The Doug Moe Nuggets were the pace champions for 9 straight years in the 80's, lost it narrowly to GS in 89-90. BRING IT BACK.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Michael Adams!
Kev4029
Footballguy
Reminds me of 5 years ago or so when JR Smith got a few all-defense votes. That year we assumed in here that it was some interns that were tasked with the voting who meant Josh Smith. No idea what the excuse for IT would be.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Niles Standish
Footballguy
Doubtful. Boston homers know IT is a bad defender. I'd expect it's somebody who doesn't really follow NBA (could be a Boston voter who doesn't watch NBA). But, they have enough Boston players they could give a vote to without resorting to IT. e.g. if they were just giving out Boston votes I'd expect Horford would have one since he is a good defender and he had zero.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I'm hoping it was just a throwaway, trolling vote for ####s and giggles.thecatch said:
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
First I heard, but I get dealing Rubio for shooting, but I'd honestly take Rubio and his shortcomings over Reggie.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Agreed. I think with the addition of Butler, I am content with Rubio at the Point.
After all, as I heard on the radio post draft, (in the ultimate example of just because something has been done only a few times, that doesn't necessarily mean it is elite) only three PGs in history have averaged 8+ assists and 2+ steals for their career (Chris Paul, Jason Kidd) and Rubio is one of them.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It actually makes sense for the T-wolves. I like Rubio better as a player, but Jackson is a much better shooter and could help spread the floor better.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It was discussed in the old thread. It was a rumor that was floating around near the trade deadline.
About $20m assuming they move on from Shabazz. If I were them, I'd try to straight dump Rubio's salary and go after Collison in FA (cheaper and much, much better shooter than either Rubio or Jackson), and also try to add a guy like Gallo or maybe even Milsap.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Seems Minny should prefer a distributor ala Rubio over a shoot first PG - was surprised to see it on the world wide leader in sports' homepage.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
The fit/spacing on offense is better (by not much), but considering offense and defense I believe the Twolves are net positive with Rubio vs Reggie and his poor defense. The Twolves missed the playoffs because of they sucked on defense....not because they couldn't score.
Rubio is an elite point guard aside from shooting and even with him last year they were #10 in Ortg. Add in Butler and improvement from KAT and Wiggins and they should be at least the same and likely better on offense. Keeping Rubio, another year of growth, and adding Butler will easily improve their defense. However if they swap out Reggie for Rubio, maybe they bump up their offense 1 or 2 spots....but then they haven't really improved the 27th worst defense.
I thought Thibs would love Rubio. Kind of baffles me he's in so many trade talks.
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
If they really can get off Pekovic via the injury exemption, about $22 million right now on the $99 million dollar cap if they renounce Payne, Rush, Muhammad, and Casspi (it's actually less than that after cap hold, but that number is dependant on who they renounce). If they waive Hill by the 30th, they pick up another $4.1 million.
So basically, they have the room to sign any non-max guy they want though who that is, I don't know which is why trading Rubio for a decent shooting PG makes some sense.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
They need shooters that can space the floor for Wiggins, Butler and KAT. Rubio is a horrible shooter and his man could slack off him defensively and double KAT or clog the driving lanes for Butler and Wiggins.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
The funny thing is everyone wants to mimic/beat the Warriors, but if you want to do that you have to have 2-way players. Livingston and Iggy don't have reliable jumpers, but they're two way players and Kerr uses them to their strengths.
Trading Rubio for Reggie is trading a 2-way player for a limited one. Give me the flawed 2 way stud any day of the week.
Trading Rubio for Reggie is trading a 2-way player for a limited one. Give me the flawed 2 way stud any day of the week.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Rubio's defense is a bit overrated because of steals. I don't think Rubio is an elite PG except shooting. What the Wolves need is a Patrick Beverly on this team.
the moops
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Even besides the 3Pt shooting, his bigger problem is he stopped finishing at the rim which means his guy can clog the lane and shade/help to someone else from the get-go.
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