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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (3 Viewers)

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msudaisy26 said:
It actually makes sense for the T-wolves. I like Rubio better as a player, but Jackson is a much better shooter and could help spread the floor better. 
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Jackson is the marginally better shooter, hardly worth the small upgrade a shooting to get a worse PG overall on a bigger contract, IMO.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Rubio's defense is a bit overrated because of steals. I don't think Rubio is an elite PG except shooting. What the Wolves need is a Patrick Beverly on this team. 
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Nate Duncan has proposed that they take Beverly and Anderson from the Rockets who are looking to dump salary to make a run at Paul. Makes a lot of sense to me if the Wolves' plan A (whatever that is) falls through at the start of free agency.

 
I'm rooting for you Minny guys now you got Butler, but dont even plan for taking significant matchups seriously unless you get rid of Wiggy or have such a strong personality at PG that he wont get the ball unless he does the spacing/cutting work he completely ignores. Lowry would be an abso perfect fit and already has experience with a dunderwing in DeRozan.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Rubio's defense is a bit overrated because of steals. I don't think Rubio is an elite PG except shooting. What the Wolves need is a Patrick Beverly on this team. 
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You have to at least feel he's a better defender then Reggie. 

Agree trading Rubio for Beverley would be perfect. I don't think the Rockets are doing that unless they're getting CP3....otherwise Beverley is the perfect guard next to Harden.

 
Kev4029 said:
Jackson is the marginally better shooter, hardly worth the small upgrade a shooting to get a worse PG overall on a bigger contract, IMO.
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Jackson might be better than he showed last year. He was hurt in the preseason, and I am not sure he was right all year. The gap between them isn't that big. Their contracts are also pretty similar, Jackson only makes like 2 million more for 1 more year. 

 
Kev4029 said:
Nate Duncan has proposed that they take Beverly and Anderson from the Rockets who are looking to dump salary to make a run at Paul. Makes a lot of sense to me if the Wolves' plan A (whatever that is) falls through at the start of free agency.
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That would be tough, doesn't Anderson make like 20 + million for 3 more years?

 
Charlie Harper said:
You have to at least feel he's a better defender then Reggie. 

Agree trading Rubio for Beverley would be perfect. I don't think the Rockets are doing that unless they're getting CP3....otherwise Beverley is the perfect guard next to Harden.
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Rubio is a better defender and a superior passer than Jackson. 

Other than passing Jackson is a superior offensive player. 

I don't think either is the a perfect fit for the Wolves. I think what Jackson brings on offense would help more than what they would lose on defense. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Rubio is a better defender and a superior passer than Jackson. 

Other than passing Jackson is a superior offensive player. 

I don't think either is the a perfect fit for the Wolves. I think what Jackson brings on offense would help more than what they would lose on defense. 
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How much better will Reggie make them?

With Rubio's "limited" offense they ranked #10 in offense ahead of a team like the Blazers (no one thinks the Blazers need more offense). Adding in Jimmy Butler can either help offense or at worst they stay around the same.

Twolves D ranked 27 last year. So they need more help on D, than on offense. Also, they're a lot closer to building a defensive beast of a team, rather than try and outscore the Warriors and others. Rubio and Butler are plus defenders and Wiggins and KAT have the athleticism to become studs. Sub in Reggie and there defense stays pretty much the same with the hole at PG instead of SG.

 
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Charlie Harper said:
How much better will Reggie make them?

With Rubio's "limited" offense they ranked #10 in offense ahead of a team like the Blazers (no one thinks the Blazers need more offense). Adding in Jimmy Butler can either help offense or at worst they stay around the same.

Twolves D ranked 27 last year. So they need more help on D, than on offense. Also, they're a lot closer to building a defensive beast of a team, rather than try and outscore the Warriors and others. Rubio and Butler are plus defenders and Wiggins and KAT have the athleticism to become studs. Sub in Reggie and there defense stays pretty much the same with the hole at PG instead of SG.
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You are seriously overestimating Rubio's defense. Reggie was horrible last year, but i believe injuries were a big reason why. These 2 guys aren't that much different on the defensive end, Rubio is slightly better. 

 
I'm not sure Jackson should be a target at all.

I think they should finb a taker for Rubio, and go after George Hill. He would be the perfect PG for that team.

 
msudaisy26 said:
The old NBA thread is gone, but I am pretty sure the Chicago fans on this board complained about him quite a bit when he was the Bulls coach. I remember them complaining about the minutes and offensive play calling. 
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Thibs had his limits with the Players and Offensive play calling but Management I think the request was more not to play the younger guys more. Plus if Thibs had his way he'd have brought in an offensive minded assistant who fed off his defense. It's no different in Football. HC is a Def mastermind and brings in the best Offensive Coordinator he can find. Defensively DC he can find a guy who's philosophies are similar and will follow the game plan. The Gar/Pax did Thibs wrong. I'm glad if Jimmy had to be traded he got to reunite with the guy he liked the most to have as his coach. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
No, they panicked and wanted to move up in a loaded draft, and probably over valued Lavine. 
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Insein said:
It also doesn't count as an assist if the shooter doesn't make it. So the key was GS making the shots. They shot .475 to Cleveland .461. They would still have more assists but it'd probably be a lot closer (and the series too) if the Cavs role players made some shots.
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Cleveland offensively looked all clogged up and not really ran well. They weren't spaced well or anything and seemed guys didn't know what the heck their assignments were or just didn't care and did their own thing. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Jackson might be better than he showed last year. He was hurt in the preseason, and I am not sure he was right all year. The gap between them isn't that big. Their contracts are also pretty similar, Jackson only makes like 2 million more for 1 more year. 
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It is very possible that Jackson never recovers from his injury. I would be a little surprised if he is ever as good as he was a year ago. 

Another thing that you aren't considering in all of this is Reggie Jackson has a very prickly personality and he wants to be the lead dog. That isn't going to work as the 4th banana, Rubio seems content with his role.

 
I'd keep Rubio.  Not only is he almost as good as anyone they'll get, he knows the system and as an NBA ticket guy, he's worth the price of admission.  

 
lol Brogden winning the ROY. If that isn't complete bull####, i am not sure what is. Should have just given it to Ingram or J. Brown instead then if they want to make a mockery of the whole thing.

Dude was rookie of the month for 0 months...

 
modogg said:
lol Brogden winning the ROY. If that isn't complete bull####, i am not sure what is. Should have just given it to Ingram or J. Brown instead then if they want to make a mockery of the whole thing.

Dude was rookie of the month for 0 months...
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You could argue it, but I don't see the complete bull#### part.

 
modogg said:
lol Brogden winning the ROY. If that isn't complete bull####, i am not sure what is. Should have just given it to Ingram or J. Brown instead then if they want to make a mockery of the whole thing.

Dude was rookie of the month for 0 months...
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who should they have given it to instead?

 
coyote5 said:
who should they have given it to instead?
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i get the argument that Embiid only played 31 games, and have heard plenty on both sides of that. I am fine with that discussion, but i think Saric tore it up enough the 2nd half of the season to beat out Brogden. Dude was never on the map of rookie of the month, and will be a 6th man at best going forward. What did he average 10 points a game? but whatever, NBA is going to NBA

 
Boston said:
It's rookie of the year not who will be the best player going forward...
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the Embiid argument is interesting. Certainly hard to justify with only 31 games under the belt, but that snapshot i would argue was more impressive then Brogden's whole season. If Embiid had made the all-star i would have to think it would have been guaranteed. He was on the cusp. 

But yeah, in the scheme of things i am probably happier he didn't get it. Will give him some extra motivation. Saric i think had an interesting argument for it too, but his 1st half just weighed him down too much i guess

I would just argue Brogden is as close to as underwhelming as MCW was. 

 
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tommyGunZ said:
I'd keep Rubio.  Not only is he almost as good as anyone they'll get, he knows the system and as an NBA ticket guy, he's worth the price of admission.  
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He may be almost as good but he is a terrible fir for the new look of this team. The ball is going to, or at least should be, in the hands of Butler and Wiggins most of the time. They need a PG who can defend (Rubio can), and knock down open threes (Rubio can't). 

 
Boston said:
It's rookie of the year not who will be the best player going forward...
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Yes. Saric had the best rookie season. Brogden was on a better team in his rookie year. Embiid was the best player during his rookie season but only for a short period of time.

That's why Saric should have won. But, reality was that the people who voted for Saric probably would have voted Embiid if he played more so those votes split and Brogden won.

But whatever. ROY is a silly award. MCW won it. Nuff said.

 
Brogdon's numbers were better than Saric's.  Embiid didn't play enough.

Not even close to being close to being a robbery.

 
Ok I just looked up their stats to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong.  Explain how Saric had a better season than Brogdon.

 
scoobus said:
Brogdon's numbers were better than Saric's.  Embiid didn't play enough.

Not even close to being close to being a robbery.
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Whatever he can keep it.  If you had an NBA team, which of the 3 guys would you want on your team. from rotoworld:

Milwaukee's strong season likely factored into this decision. Brogdon had a solid season with averages of 10.2 points, 4.2 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 1.0 3-pointers on 45.7 percent shooting, becoming the first player to win the Rookie of the Year Award without a single Rookie of the Month Award since 2001-02.

enjoy Brogden and those sweet stats. Philly has their eyes on bigger prizes, probably only thing Milwaukee will win in the next 15-20 years

 
modogg said:
Whatever he can keep it.  If you had an NBA team, which of the 3 guys would you want on your team. from rotoworld:

Milwaukee's strong season likely factored into this decision. Brogdon had a solid season with averages of 10.2 points, 4.2 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 1.0 3-pointers on 45.7 percent shooting, becoming the first player to win the Rookie of the Year Award without a single Rookie of the Month Award since 2001-02.

enjoy Brogden and those sweet stats. Philly has their eyes on bigger prizes, probably only thing Milwaukee will win in the next 15-20 years
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Milwaukee has a way way better player than anybody on Philly's roster. 

 
Capella said:
Milwaukee has a way way better player than anybody on Philly's roster. 
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Giannis is definitely special, but if Embiid is healthy i may lean having him. It is definitely close. 

Still don't see Milwaukee getting very far with the current roster, and i do actually like them. Jabari just seems like he will not be 100% ever

 
Moe. said:
You are definitely more bummed about this than both Saric and Embiid
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ehh, i got a 1 week old screaming. This too shall pass.....  Without a doubt Embiid is much more enjoyable ROY then Brogden is. 

 
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modogg said:
Giannis is definitely special, but if Embiid is healthy i may lean having him. It is definitely close. 

Still don't see Milwaukee getting very far with the current roster, and i do actually like them. Jabari just seems like he will not be 100% ever
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Embiid is awesome but god only knows with him. Giannis is one of the most valuable assets in the league. They can build around him. 

 
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