Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
in a few years they will point to it being the beginning of the end of the Warrior's dominance.
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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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DJackson10
Footballguy
I hate the Clips for their constant whining and Blake being a punk but its not the only reason. I find the whole "Lob City" mantra to be pretty overrated frankly as well because most guys and teams if they really want to could pull most of that off. It's just that the Clippers don't have enough fire power offensively in other categories that their only result to scoring is flashy passes that lead to dunks. I've kind of been bored by the NBA and dunking for yrs. It was cool when MJ and Carter were doing stuff we never saw before but so many guys are just posers. I mean I think it's pretty cool how athletic Aaron Gordon is and what Lavine can do but the actual showmanship and all it seems too many guys try to hard and I guess it's more or less almost every guy in the league can dunk do to the overall athleticism now. I mean when MJ was doing it guys weren't as athletic and he was doing some pretty acrobatic stuff never seen before. I've seen kids argue how good a guy is because of his dunking really?Frostillicus said:
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Chemical X
Footballguy
Melo is still a useful player and I see no reason to simply buy him out so he can team up with LeBron or another super team. he signed his deal, suffer with it or waive the NTC. issue is, who wants a 33 yr old ball hog? with the nix being 2 yrs away from getting out free from his contract, why deal him for longer or worse contracts? I would prefer to buy him out then pull a clip deal where I get middling assets and a likely bottom 5 pick for paul. phil's first and fatal mistake was melo's contract. he shoulda let him walk then when he was 29 and the knicks were awful.
Eephus
Footballguy
But there are plenty of better ones in the West. The Mavericks needed a win on the final day to avoid a 50 loss season. It's hard to see dramatic improvement with the guys currently on the roster. They're in danger of falling into the no man's land of late lottery/first round playoff exit and Donn Nnelsonn's attempt to piece together one more team around Dirk is going to hurt them as long as Barnes is on the books.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
This is the leaguewide challenge - do we end up with 3-4 superteams and 27 Orlandos?
Dont know Dennis Smith but there are as many people saying he could be the best player of this class as saying he'll be a washout. If he's got game and listens to his excellent coach and works hard with NN in Carlisle's first offseason w both, they could get a LobCity thing going, with Dirk the ez dumpoff and HB & Wes floating around, i kinda like that. You could get a Celts-without-the-draft-picks thing going with that core and i know the Celts were almost more entertaining before they started to matter. That will be most cities' lot - sure a lot of live talent & young hops out there, will there be good young strategic minds who work with their GMs on finding system-compatible talents to develop cores attractive to their fanbase and potential FAs or do we have 20 SVGs (sry, daisy) plug-n-playing whatever parts fall into their laps?
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
That's interesting but I don't know how entertaining a team built around a 39 year old Nowitzki will be. He's still productive and efficient but the Mavericks were 29th in pace last season. Dirk said earlier in the week that he'd like to play a few more years. I think everyone would be better off if he went to a contender and allowed the rebuild to begin in earnest.
In spite of his public persona, Cuban has generally been patient with the people running the basketball side of the organization but he can't enjoy the increasing irrelevance of the franchise.
I guess I don't see them as legit threats to make the playoffs as constituted anyway. I suppose they could light the whole thing on fire and position themselves for an even better pick, but none of their vets are valuable trade chips and Smith seems like a guy that might be ruined by being developed in a tanking culture.
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Insein
Footballguy
For as long as I can remember, the NBA has always been like this. 3-4 teams with a shot at the title each year and everyone else just going through the motions.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Dirk's too old to have anything built around him but viewing ropes, but he can still space the floor til the kids figure things out anyway. As Abraham pointed out w Melo, putting it in da hole is still sumn.
At least becoming a ball Mecca seems a movable feast, so virtually any city can become one if they do it right and that seems to be developing a young core that becomes attractive before it gets expensive. Cuban's progressive enough to figure that out.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
2014 was wide open. My favorite season in a long, long time.
2015 seemed fairly wide open as well, until it became apparent that the Warriors had made the jump to hyperspace. Even then, a lot of people doubted the Warriors' ability to translate their style into postseason success, and if those people had been right the West would have been seven deep with contenders. And that was also LeBron's first season in Cleveland so a lot of people doubted whether the Cavs would coalesce in time for the playoffs, plus the Hawks won 60 games.
People talk about the parity problem as if it's always been there but it's really only two seasons old.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Absolutely. What i'm saying is that there's a new way of playing ball now and a lot of it has yet to be figured out (especially the integration of post players to compliment the spread offenses or, better, figure out how to go back to punishing spread-offense teams with them) and that gives possibilites to franchises that might not be able to attract playing talent. Having watched opponents get outplayed by a Stevens-coached team for a few years now, i've become amazed by how few teams (even some with good records) know the New Game. I just hope that teams will start to realize that incompatabilities are as easy to exploit as weak talent so we dont have GMs drafting Aaron Gordons or trading for Oladipos when they dont fit jus cuz one's a bigger name than the other and we end up with a league half of whom are flailers who the good teams rest their core against, cuz that will make the 82 impossibly tedious to endure.
Moe.
Footballguy
Yeah, I know it's not quite the same game and the competition is obviously not the same but we've seen it in international play. If the Rockets could make that happen and keep Ariza that's a hell of a small lineup.
Moe.
Footballguy
Has anyone checked out Mark Deeks' off-season manifesto? This thing is enormous. I'm not familiar with him at all but I am looking forward to going through the Thunder section tonight. I can't believe how much money Andre Roberson is about to get.
https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
Britney Spears
guest speaker
Sammy3469
Footballguy
FWIW, 538s CARMELO projections are out. :confetti:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/frank-ntilikina/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/frank-ntilikina/
Kev4029
Footballguy
That thing looks incredible. I didn't look through it very hard yet, and I'm sure it is more aggregation of information than original content, but I am still very impressed. Gonna take a look tonight.
metoo
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
Who would you rather have running your organization, Phil Jackson or Isiah Thomas? I think I would lean toward PJ. Sure he is going to run the current team further into the ground, but I don't think he would totally cripple the franchise into the future. IT would be trading unprotected first round picks for Allen Crabbe and Gorgui Dieng while resigning Rose to a max contract.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
OUR SECOND NATIONAL NIGHTMARE IS OVER!!!!!111(hopefully)
https://twitter.com/iamisiahthomas/status/880522791812034560
msudaisy26
Footballguy
The Suns have meetings with Millsap and Blake. I hate the idea of Blake there, I don't mind Millsap, but I think I would rather roll with the young guys and try to make a splash next year. Guys like Chriss, Bender, Williams and Jackson need minutes to get better, not be stuck behind Millsap. Maybe we could sign Blake or Millsap and then trade them in December for something?
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
If the Rockets really want to make it interesting they need to figure out how to go get Millsap.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
3-4 super teams would be great. I hope you that's where it's heading. Right now, it's one super team and 2-3 really good teams with no shot. No knock on the Dubs, they are playing by the same rules, just doing it better. I applaud the attempts to catch them. Doubt it'll work, but it'll be fun. An NBA final four of teams that could all actually win it all would be awesome. That's rare, even pre Dubs.
Funny thing is that the Warriors playoff dominance helped drop the cap, making it even harder to catch them.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
How are we defining who actually has a chance at a title? Is it at the start of the year? Or start of the playoffs? I think this year was the exception to the rule. Most years there are 3 or 4 teams with legit title chances when the playoffs start.
Eephus
Footballguy
A 50 win season has historically been a benchmark for a good season. There's only been one league champion with less than 50 wins since the late 70s. This year's Cavs team finished at 51-31 and there were eight teams with 50 or more wins.
If that's your measure, there hasn't been a big change recently. There were between six and ten 50 win teams in each of the past five full seasons. I spot-checked at five year intervals back from there and the numbers are pretty much the same until you get to the high parity years immediately following the ABA merger.
The regular season isn't the playoffs but it's probably the best quantifiable way to determine legitimate championship contenders.
If that's your measure, there hasn't been a big change recently. There were between six and ten 50 win teams in each of the past five full seasons. I spot-checked at five year intervals back from there and the numbers are pretty much the same until you get to the high parity years immediately following the ABA merger.
The regular season isn't the playoffs but it's probably the best quantifiable way to determine legitimate championship contenders.
modogg
Footballguy
1) Warriors
2) Cavs
3) T-Wolves (i don't want Frosty to bash me)
4) Sixers
who else?
modogg
Footballguy
hard to judge off of win totals when half the league admits to tanking 1/3 of the season when they see they aren't in the upper echelon. I am glad guys like Cuban and others have come out and admitted to it, and maybe the league will try to address a bit
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Calipari wants Phil's old job, that would be perfect for the Knicks
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
He might be awake for everything, but do Knick fans really want to hear him say "What do you mean everyone can pay their players?"
Eephus
Footballguy
Regular season W/L isn't a perfect method but it's the least arbitrary way of determining championship contenders from past seasons.
Resting players and tanking for draft position are two different things. I think the league cares more about the former because it impacts television. There will be some scheduling changes to reduce back-to-backs and shorten road trips but there's only so much you can do to cram 82 games into a calendar. It's easier to fix the latter by adjusting the lottery rules but nobody cares about a Sacramento-Phoenix game in March.
Koya
Footballguy
Isaiah is the reason for my only EVER abdication of team loyalty. With the banging the interns and complete #### show and unprofessionalism that defined the Knicks during his past tenure, a team I cherished so embarrass me as a ####### human being.
If he's back I'm done. Over. Done.
#### Nolan. The Trump of NBA owners, and that's saying a lot.
need2know
Footballguy
The Rockets basically eliminated mid range jumpers last season - which are the lowest EV shots. All they try to do is shoot close to the rim and 3 pointers (high EV). Unfortunately, that's how San Antonio set up their defense. Guard the perimeter and guard the rim. They left the mid range wide open because they knew Houston simply wouldn't take those shots. Now, Houston has one of the best mid range shooters - can't leave that space wide open anymore. The threat of Paul shooting that shot should open the entire floor up now for Houston.
SoCalBroncoFan
Footballguy
See one post above. Even if he doesn't, it's much more difficult to defend Houston with that Paul threat there.
Found this article that basically says the same thing: http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-paul-rockets-offense-help-in-playoffs-2017-6
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
As someone who is very familiar with Deeks (he was a famous poster on Bulls message boards), I'm certain it is largely original content.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Well, the Warriors are starting the season as the heaviest title favorite of any team in major team in (US) sports history. Yes, this year is the exception to the rule. Next year is too. However we defined it before is irrelevant.
Warriors should've just gone 16-0 except for a super human feat for the Cavs to win one game. Cavs are now just a year older. If everything breaks right for the Rockets, maybe they take the Warriors to Game 6. Maybe, if everything breaks right.
I agree about most years, but it'll be a while before we get back to that.
Capella
Footballguy
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modogg
Footballguy
current title odds: https://www.libertyballers.com/2017/6/29/15895008/nba-finals-betting-sixers-tied-ninth-best-odds-win-2018-nba-title-los-angeles-lakers-warriors-cavs
018 NBA Title Odds
TEAMODDS
Golden State 4/7
Cleveland 15/4
Houston 12/1
Boston 14/1
San Antonio 14/1
Washington 33/1
Toronto 50/1
Minnesota 50/1
Los Angeles Clippers 66/1
Oklahoma City 66/1
Los Angeles Lakers 66/1
Philadelphia 66/1
Milwaukee 66/1
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Britney Spears
guest speaker
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
Um, there must be an error.
No Knicks? Or we waiting to see if Isaiah comes back to know just how strong a favorite they will be?
Kev4029
Footballguy
Yeah, there are a few pages of contract/stat stuff then a couple pages of his analysis. What I read was pretty awesome. I have a 2.5 hour flight today, I think I'll take this along with me to read. By the time I land (close to midnight EST), there should be lots of juicy FA news.
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