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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Maybe? We're making stuff up just like wikkid, but yeah, I feel certain of those and maybe a few other teams looking to emulate the Warriors/Rockets bombs away approach. If one thing the two best teams are proving, old school point guards are unnecessary. CP3 deferred to Harden all year and played a hybrid point/off guard role. It makes both tougher to cover. Draymond's played point forward so Curry can do his thing for years now.
Capella
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
He won't be. Having watched this season play mostly thru, what Stevens appears to envision for his team is a Hall of Switches. It will be unfortunate if someone offers ridiculous money to Smart (or Celtics ownership decides that 5 yrs of penalty tax arent the way they want to go), because the coach seems bent on building a team which can ruin the morale of opposing squads with switches (beating or rubbing off one's man only to encounter 6'8-w-PG-feet Brown or 6'3 block-o-granite Smart has already taken its toll on a coupla teams in the last month) AND have an offense immune to them. Having 5 guys 6'7-6'9 guys who can switch on PGs & Cs without losing efficiency and a strong safety like Smart & free safety like Rozier (or Irving, who avg'd 2.5 steals/g in the 1st month of the season) to pick up the pieces, then a weave of inside/outside/pass guys on offense creates purely exhausting basketball for opponents to oppose. I believe this conception might originally have been based on the mental exercise of "How might one stop the Dubs?" and evolved into a general philosophy.
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Capella
Footballguy
What has Simmons done at LSU or in his one season that compares him to Magic or Lebron? Because he’s taller than an average guard and has a handle?
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I'll go so far as to say there's more than one GM who wouldn't trade Simmons for Mitchell AND Gobert and bet it's pretty close to 50/50 whether they would trade him for Embiid
I bet the Sixers cut him. ROFL. Dude, we get your point. You prefer Mitchell. You're kind of going a little overboard now acting like the guy sucks. If you want any basketball credibility at all, you might want to tone down the shtick.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Vision. Has it on D, too (may be best zone defender in ball before long). No more than that. Once in a gen vision.
ETA: Many people dont notice it because they're both so physically imposing, but Simmons and Embiid both have among the best young basketball minds in the game. That's why it's such a same to see them so poorly coached. They both have terribly fragile egos as well, which brings me back to the coaching once again. pTUie!
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encaitar
Footballguy
He averaged 15 8 and 8 in his first season? Looked unstoppable on the drive at times. Instinctively makes passes that most NBA players don't even attempt. Has a level of athleticism that puts even the best athletes in the world to shame?
I'm not saying he's LeBron or Magic or any other NBA great. I'm saying he has the potential to get there. Instinctive passing like that is something that can't be taught. Being a once in a generational type athlete can't be taught. Of course many people think an instinctive jump shot can't be taught either, so it's not like it's set in stone that he'll end up being THE GUY. He just actually has a chance to be and that's not something you can say about most rookies in the NBA.
Capella
Footballguy
Basketball credibility
What is that. Anyhow, I never said the guy sucks, he’s very good but has major warts and is nowhere near the Lebron/Magic prototype you think he is.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Al will definitely take the option at 30M but I don’t see Kyrie exercising his at 21M if he comes back strong next year.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Of course not. Ainge goes on a local morning talk show most Thursday mornings and he was clear from the time he acquired Kyrie that the trade was down to knowing he was going to have to max his PG sooner than later, so he a lot more wanted that PG to be Irving than the Leprechaun. So, i'm pretty sure they know it's easier to keep than sign a max PG and have made their peace with doing so when the time comes.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
LOTs of warts. He'll be handling them a very frustrating one-@-a-time, too, it seems. I'm sure if he had understood the beauty of a two-man game with a topflight post, he'd have already settled his 15-footer issue. He'll take on these weaknesses at an Antipodean pace and you'll see. I'm confident the people i cite as not trading him for nothing already do.
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Britney Spears
guest speaker
Magic rookie year:. 18.0/7.3,/7.7Basketball credibility
Anyhow, I never said the guy sucks, he’s very good but has major warts and is nowhere near the Lebron/Magic prototype you think he is.
Simmons rookie year: 15.8/8.2/8.1
In fairness, Magic continued to improve while Simmons is getting up there in age and has probably peaked.
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Magic continued to improve? How about rookie playoff performances as a barometer of where they really were/are. We saw Ben lay multiple rotten eggs as his streaking team fizzled against a team missing it's best player in the quarterfinals. Magic's team was missing it's best player when he dominated game 6 of the finals with 42 point 15 rebound effort that included him playing all five positions. It was arguably the best game of his career despite continuing to improve. Lakers won a championship just like Michigan State did the year before. That was the first year with a 3 point line. It is way WAY more important now.Magic rookie year:. 18.0/7.3,/7.7
Simmons rookie year: 15.8/8.2/8.1
In fairness, Magic continued to improve while Simmons is getting up there in age and has probably peaked.
I compared to Simmons rookie stats to one of the best players who ever lace them up. And Simmons stats are every bit as good. If you're trying to get me to say something bad about magic, it will never happen. One of my favorite players ever. Just loving what the future holds for Simmons and the Sixers.
modogg
Footballguy
Also simplistic comparing players based off of one season. I’d take Simmons over Mitchell everyday if we are talking about under rookie contracts or possibly the rest of their careers.
modogg
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Of course you would. You’re a Philly homer who has displayed absolutely no sense of objectivity.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
Just some random thoughts:
- Really sad/did not expect to see the 76ers lose, but as good as Stevens is, I think Brett Brown lost it for the team. The games could have easily gone 6ers way with just a few select timeouts and different play calling. Embiid is awesome, but seeing so many toss it on the block post ups was just brutal to watch. It was clear early that Horford and Baynes were doing a good job of keeping Embiid off the block. The 76ers offense did a lot better once they stopped trying to force feed Embiid. I think Embiid would have been much better actually starting the offense in the high post or top of the key. He could have shot 3s over Horford all day and has enough wiggle/handle to get by Baynes. However, the 76ers didn't do that because.....Simmonds is useless without the ball in his hands. It also didn't help that Covington decided to suck balls.
- CLE will roll Celtics. The Celtics won close games vs. a beta version of LBJ, no way they'll be able to handle the King at his peak?!!#.
- Can't wait to see the Celtics play Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford all at once. Though it may never get there bc I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge dealt one of those guys plus a pick for a two way stud. I would honestly shop Kyrie + pick to see how big a stud they could land though I can't think of a team off the top of my head aside from the Spurs...so maybe it's not possible.
- Man, I reeeeeeeeally love Spider-Mitchell, but I still would take Simmons if I had to start a Franchise. He's a legit 7 foot point guard with explosiveness....not some Lamar Odom, big that handles well. His ceiling is crazy....and again I developed a man-crush on Mitchell during the playoffs.
- Really sad/did not expect to see the 76ers lose, but as good as Stevens is, I think Brett Brown lost it for the team. The games could have easily gone 6ers way with just a few select timeouts and different play calling. Embiid is awesome, but seeing so many toss it on the block post ups was just brutal to watch. It was clear early that Horford and Baynes were doing a good job of keeping Embiid off the block. The 76ers offense did a lot better once they stopped trying to force feed Embiid. I think Embiid would have been much better actually starting the offense in the high post or top of the key. He could have shot 3s over Horford all day and has enough wiggle/handle to get by Baynes. However, the 76ers didn't do that because.....Simmonds is useless without the ball in his hands. It also didn't help that Covington decided to suck balls.
- CLE will roll Celtics. The Celtics won close games vs. a beta version of LBJ, no way they'll be able to handle the King at his peak?!!#.
- Can't wait to see the Celtics play Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford all at once. Though it may never get there bc I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge dealt one of those guys plus a pick for a two way stud. I would honestly shop Kyrie + pick to see how big a stud they could land though I can't think of a team off the top of my head aside from the Spurs...so maybe it's not possible.
- Man, I reeeeeeeeally love Spider-Mitchell, but I still would take Simmons if I had to start a Franchise. He's a legit 7 foot point guard with explosiveness....not some Lamar Odom, big that handles well. His ceiling is crazy....and again I developed a man-crush on Mitchell during the playoffs.
Capella
Footballguy
Yea those stats tell the whole story.Magic rookie year:. 18.0/7.3,/7.7
Simmons rookie year: 15.8/8.2/8.1
In fairness, Magic continued to improve while Simmons is getting up there in age and has probably peaked.
modogg
Footballguy
Ok great. Simmons is a bust, unless you guys want to take this 3 pages. I mean really, we are ####ting on a rookie who is playing PG for the first time in his life? Just looking at this way too simplistically, which is fine. We agree to disagree, not a big deal cause time will tell
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
Yah, because Brown really plays defense out on the court. Brown should get the blame for the offense sucking, but defense is all on the players....especially when the 76ers were #4 DEF during the regular season.
Sorry if the actual stats don't fit your agenda. I will inquire with the league to see if they can change them
modogg
Footballguy
Falls on everybody I would logically think, unless we are playing 1-on-1. Players definitely could have done better, but plays were designed to force switches and bad match-ups. Was exploited real bad in the first 2 games, then the team adjusted to improve on it a bit. At least adjusted enough so that every time Belinelli was on the court the offense wouldn’t do whatever they needed to exploit him.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Lol. Damn stats.
Magic took a great team full of other superstars and won a title. Simmons took a team that had 10 wins 2 years ago and was hoping possibly to get to 500 this year and led them to a third seed and an opening round playoff series win. Including 10 games at the end of the season without their best scorer and defensive Intimidator. Which took them from the seven seed to third seed.
One good thing is, neither me nor the Sixers give a rat's ### what you think of him. Proof is in the pudding and you will see how NBA experts feel when they announce Rookie of the Year.
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Lebron at 21 was basically Larry Bird shooting the ball compared to Simmons this year.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
In some twitter comments I was reading last night someone observed that every time Simmons shoots it looks like his hands are on backwards. Kobe says tear it down and rebuild it with proper form. Same goes for Lonzo Ball. /realisticlakerfan
scoobus
Footballguy
I'm not sure it's wise to compare Simmons to LeBron as a guy who didn't have a good jumpshot at the beginning of his career and will improve. His jumper is much less developed compared to where LeBron's was, even just comparing rookie years and ignoring age. LeBron shot 29% on 211 attempts (followed by 35% on 308 attempts in his sophomore season), SImmons didn't make any on only 11 attempts this year, which is kind of crazy.
I hope he develops a reliable J because it would make the league more interesting, but I certainly wouldn't be counting on it. And in today's NBA, that's not a killer, but it's certainly a problem.
I hope he develops a reliable J because it would make the league more interesting, but I certainly wouldn't be counting on it. And in today's NBA, that's not a killer, but it's certainly a problem.
Absolutely. Simmons developing a jump shot will open up so many more opportunities for both him and the team. Looking forward to watching him develop. Has the perfect demeanor for a team leader. Nothing rattles the kid. Same expression whether he's scoring 30 or scoring one. Loved how he just smirked as James Johnson grabbed him and tried to intimidate him in the Miami series. Not a f### was given.
scoobus
Footballguy
I think what people are saying though is that him developing a jump shot is not a given.
mr. furley
Footballguy
at Philly fans getting so upset about this
mr. furley
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
all eleven were end-of-quarter heaves. don't believe he attempted an actual trey in his rookie season
This is true. That would suck if he never reached his potential. He's still a 15/8/8 player even without a jumper, and those are hard to find, but he would still be considered a disappointment if he doesn't become a threat from the outside
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Aron Baynes can help him out with his technique, they have the whole Australian connection so I'm sure they are friends.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
It’s amazing. HOW DARE YOU NOT UNILATERALY LOVE MY FAVORITE PLAYER AS UNOBJECTIVELY AS I DO. HE SCORED 15 POINTS PER GAME
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Capella
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
There's a youtube of all Ben Simmons 3 point shots. They're all buzzer beaters from half court or worse. I'm not sure what is more telling, being 0-11 understandably, or being 0-0 as a guard in this era. Rondo is way better than that.
Capella
Footballguy
The voters aren’t “experts”. They are just dip#### beat writers who follow the team around. And Bill Simmons.
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