2018 qb carousel (1 Viewer)

[Biabreakable]

Why isn't Keenum the future?....The Vikings would be remiss if they don't keep Keenum as their starter... IMO He has already proved himself better than Bridgewater and Bradford.

He might be.

It has been great to win so many games and Keenum has made some great plays along the way.

He has also made some very bad plays, and they are the kind of decisions that I don't really see him fixing, its part of who he is. I cringe every time he throws the ball worried that he is going to throw an interception. That isn't a feeling that I associate with a QB of the future. Never felt this way about Teddy and definitely not as much with Bradford (who makes questionable decisions with the ball at times too, just not as much).

Keenum is very inaccurate. A lot of his passes are just up for grabs. He is counting on the receiver to adjust to his poorly placed throws and bail him out.

That does not inspire confidence in me.

He lacks arm strength. This is something that really isn't a big deal to me. Out of all of the QB traits that I think are important, arm strength is way down the list for me. However the lack of arm strength does limit what the offense can do, which makes what they can do more difficult. If Keenum were more accurate, I could live with the poor arm strength a lot better. He is inaccurate and weak armed though.

I am hoping the Vikings can win two more games with him. Not really looking further ahead than that. The Vikings have won a lot of games this year, but most of those wins are despite Keenum, not because of him.

 

[Sebowski]

Well ####. This is a lot like my thread....

 

[Chaka]

He might be.

It has been great to win so many games and Keenum has made some great plays along the way.

He has also made some very bad plays, and they are the kind of decisions that I don't really see him fixing, its part of who he is. I cringe every time he throws the ball worried that he is going to throw an interception. That isn't a feeling that I associate with a QB of the future. Never felt this way about Teddy and definitely not as much with Bradford (who makes questionable decisions with the ball at times too, just not as much).

Keenum is very inaccurate. A lot of his passes are just up for grabs. He is counting on the receiver to adjust to his poorly placed throws and bail him out.

That does not inspire confidence in me.

He lacks arm strength. This is something that really isn't a big deal to me. Out of all of the QB traits that I think are important, arm strength is way down the list for me. However the lack of arm strength does limit what the offense can do, which makes what they can do more difficult. If Keenum were more accurate, I could live with the poor arm strength a lot better. He is inaccurate and weak armed though.

I am hoping the Vikings can win two more games with him. Not really looking further ahead than that. The Vikings have won a lot of games this year, but most of those wins are despite Keenum, not because of him.

He completed almost 68% of his passes with an INT rate of 1.5% that can't all be attributed to his receivers making big plays on 50:50 balls.

I think you may be letting name recognition, or lack thereof, influence your perception of his performance.  At some point you have to acknowledge that he has been pretty darn good in his own right this season. How he performs when Shurmer leaves is a different question but he is certainly a real-deal performer in Shurmer's offense.

 

[Snorkelson]

He might be.

It has been great to win so many games and Keenum has made some great plays along the way.

He has also made some very bad plays, and they are the kind of decisions that I don't really see him fixing, its part of who he is. I cringe every time he throws the ball worried that he is going to throw an interception. That isn't a feeling that I associate with a QB of the future. Never felt this way about Teddy and definitely not as much with Bradford (who makes questionable decisions with the ball at times too, just not as much).

Keenum is very inaccurate. A lot of his passes are just up for grabs. He is counting on the receiver to adjust to his poorly placed throws and bail him out.

That does not inspire confidence in me.

He lacks arm strength. This is something that really isn't a big deal to me. Out of all of the QB traits that I think are important, arm strength is way down the list for me. However the lack of arm strength does limit what the offense can do, which makes what they can do more difficult. If Keenum were more accurate, I could live with the poor arm strength a lot better. He is inaccurate and weak armed though.

I am hoping the Vikings can win two more games with him. Not really looking further ahead than that. The Vikings have won a lot of games this year, but most of those wins are despite Keenum, not because of him.

I’ve seen a good handful of vikes games and I’ll defer to your assessment, but Ive come away thinking his accuracy is a strength.  Yes, he throws balls up and I could imagine a playoff run (yes even as a lions fan) hinging on every throw struggling to hold my poop in when he drops back. But he puts balls up where his receivers are able to get position, has pocket awareness, and has limited his mistakes. While I don’t think he’s going to annihilate teams like drew Brees he plays a similar game of pitch and catch on more of a game manager level. While hoping my own team could win the division with about 5-6 games left I thought maybe the Minnesota offense would sputter for a few games down the stretch but they’ve put up a couple tds every week with a few fgs kicked in and the defense is superb. Even in the playoffs they’ve moved the ball consistently. 

 

[-OZ-]

He completed almost 68% of his passes with an INT rate of 1.5% that can't all be attributed to his receivers making big plays on 50:50 balls.

I think you may be letting name recognition, or lack thereof, influence your perception of his performance.  At some point you have to acknowledge that he has been pretty darn good in his own right this season. How he performs when Shurmer leaves is a different question but he is certainly a real-deal performer in Shurmer's offense.

I’ve seen a good handful of vikes games and I’ll defer to your assessment, but Ive come away thinking his accuracy is a strength.  Yes, he throws balls up and I could imagine a playoff run (yes even as a lions fan) hinging on every throw struggling to hold my poop in when he drops back. But he puts balls up where his receivers are able to get position, has pocket awareness, and has limited his mistakes. While I don’t think he’s going to annihilate teams like drew Brees he plays a similar game of pitch and catch on more of a game manager level. While hoping my own team could win the division with about 5-6 games left I thought maybe the Minnesota offense would sputter for a few games down the stretch but they’ve put up a couple tds every week with a few fgs kicked in and the defense is superb. Even in the playoffs they’ve moved the ball consistently. 

both.

I'm not sure if it's name recognition or just previous years of keenum, in the past he was not accurate or strong. He seems to have greatly improved this year. He isn't Drew Brees, but perhaps a poor man's version. Which I guess is like Chad Pennington (Chad had a very good 2002 then hung around for a decade). Maybe he'll have a better career than Penny, with better coaching (herm was solid but Mangini and sparano stunk). 

At the least he's earned a good chance to start next year.

 

[Tool]

He might be.

It has been great to win so many games and Keenum has made some great plays along the way.

He has also made some very bad plays, and they are the kind of decisions that I don't really see him fixing, its part of who he is. I cringe every time he throws the ball worried that he is going to throw an interception. That isn't a feeling that I associate with a QB of the future. Never felt this way about Teddy and definitely not as much with Bradford (who makes questionable decisions with the ball at times too, just not as much).

Keenum is very inaccurate. A lot of his passes are just up for grabs. He is counting on the receiver to adjust to his poorly placed throws and bail him out.

That does not inspire confidence in me.

He lacks arm strength. This is something that really isn't a big deal to me. Out of all of the QB traits that I think are important, arm strength is way down the list for me. However the lack of arm strength does limit what the offense can do, which makes what they can do more difficult. If Keenum were more accurate, I could live with the poor arm strength a lot better. He is inaccurate and weak armed though.

I am hoping the Vikings can win two more games with him. Not really looking further ahead than that. The Vikings have won a lot of games this year, but most of those wins are despite Keenum, not because of him.

I agree with others that you may be watching Keenum through a certain skeptical lense. Can't really blame you for that necessarily as most QB's don't have the career trajectory that Keenum has had this year.  But some of his passes that get criticized for being up for grabs, I don't think would be criticized nearly as much if they were from an elite QB.  He knows he has two great receivers and he is giving his guys a chance to make a play.  Obviously he can get burned on that but this year it's mostly worked.  So I think we have to give him some benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Snorkelson]

The Vikings offseason will be very intriguing. If they get to the super bowl, are they almost obligated to bring back the qb that got them there? I believe there is some sort of loophole where if teddy wasn’t active his contract got rolled over another year- don’t quote me on that, but he may be under contract. Keenum and Bradford will probably be starters somewhere, I’d have a hard time believing they spurn Keenum for Bradford at this point. I think it comes down to if Keenum chases money or shurmer, and if he opts to go that route then they turn to teddy b (assuming I’m correct about his contract) and sign or draft a decent backup. That defense can’t stay elite forever and they’ve been pretty fierce the last two years. Look at Seattle, Denver, Arizona, what were very good defenses are not what they were. 

Or, if Keenum leaves, do you try to lure cousins rather than trot Bradford out there? That could be an option as well. I suppose for Vikings fans you can’t be looking at that right now and just enjoy the ride and start squirreling away $$ to get those super bowl tix. Just in case.....keenum. 

 

[Snorkelson]

Well ####. This is a lot like my thread....

I was here first sebowski, check the record on that (and if not I humbly apologize). Now go back to your futbol thread......

 

[Biabreakable]

I am glad that at least 3 of you disagreed with me about Keenum.

I am talking about the negatives with him. There are a lot of positives too that you all point out.

He has pretty good pre snap reads as far as I can tell. To be honest I think a lot of the plays he executes are very easy plays and that most any QB should be able to convert them. Keenum holds the ball too long at times, but generally he makes the right read and is able to execute the plays. It does not look pretty when he does most of the time, but he gets it done.

My perspective about him is completely from watching him play this season though. It isn't about name recognition or anything like that as has been suggested. I just haven't talked much about what he does do well, was focused on what he doesn't do well.

Keenum is more aggressive than Bradford was in 2016 and that is a good thing. When I watch him I am comparing his throws to Bradford, and Bradfords throws are more accurate, they are better placed. I am not talking about the completion percentage, which as pointed out is very high for Keenum this year, however 4% lower than Bradfords in 2016. Most of the throws are within the 10 yard line. Keenum rarely pushes the ball down the field much more than that. When he does, it does not look very good. On deep throws that have actually connected, they are rainbow throws. Bradford could put those same throws on a rope and sometimes it would be better to do so.

Receivers have to make a lot of plays on the ball because Keenum will throw it too short (does this a lot) or behind the receiver, or too high, or he waits too long to throw it, so the receiver is better covered by the time the ball gets there. Part of this could just be communication. I have seen his throws to Rudolph improve over time and Keenum has been finding Diggs a lot more recently as well, after a few weeks of struggling with poor throws Diggs way.

Obviously Keenum has made some very good throws as well. As a fan I do focus more on the bad plays than the good ones. I have always had a defensive perspective about football, so thats kind of what I do when I watch offensive players is focus on their flaws and how the defense can exploit those flaws.

Keenum has balls of steel. He doesn't let pass rush phase him the way it does most QBs. Defenses need to hit him. The pressure isn't really going to change the way he plays if the defense doesn't hit him or somehow affect the ball. Keenum will take a big hit and hold the ball to the last tick if he needs to.

Even the play now being called the Minneapolis Miricle was a pass that was too high. This ended up working out GREAT but the throw likely didn't need to be so high and if it wasn't Diggs would not have needed to stop and go up for it the way he did. The Saints safety might have tackled him fine if Diggs didn't have to go up for it.

Zimmer says Keenum has a horse shoe. Whatever it is, its working and I hope he can keep it going. Just being honest though that from a defensive perspective Keenum looks like a QB who can turn the ball over a lot more than he has. He does give his good receivers a chance to make plays. Some of the throws a more conservative QB (like Bradford) might not risk. There is a positive side of that when it works obviously. There are inaccurate, poorly placed throws also where the receiver has no chance to make the play, or Keenum is making the play a lot more difficult for the receiver to execute.

 

[Sebowski]

I was here first sebowski, check the record on that (and if not I humbly apologize). Now go back to your futbol thread......

I know. That's why my post wasn't all "YOU SON OF A #$##) *#*) *#*#_&" 

I'll let mine die. You can have this Foosball thread. I liked my format better though. 

 

[Biabreakable]

I know. That's why my post wasn't all "YOU SON OF A #$##) *#*) *#*#_&" 

I'll let mine die. You can have this Foosball thread. I liked my format better though. 

There is a 3rd thread on the same topic started by Gian also.

You could ask Joe to merge both threads as another option. I think I have blathered a fair amount in both of them.

 

[Gally]

He completed almost 68% of his passes with an INT rate of 1.5% that can't all be attributed to his receivers making big plays on 50:50 balls.

I think you may be letting name recognition, or lack thereof, influence your perception of his performance.  At some point you have to acknowledge that he has been pretty darn good in his own right this season. How he performs when Shurmer leaves is a different question but he is certainly a real-deal performer in Shurmer's offense.

As Biabreakable mentioned even though his completion percentage is high his accuracy leaves a lot of yards on the table.  The pass is completed because his WR's are really good but they could be much bigger plays if the throws were accurate.  They are good enough but could be so much better.

I think Keenum's biggest advantage over Bradford is that he extends plays and can pick up yards on the ground when things break down.  That has been the biggest advantage he has given the Vikes this year.  The O-Line has been a lot better than years past but when there is pressure Keenum has been able to avoid it to make a big play downfield to Thielen or Diggs.  Those extend drives and have put the Vikes in the position they are. 

My biggest worry is the off the back foot jump balls that he throws.  There were two prime examples in the last game.  The one to Thielen for the FG to put the Vikes up with 1:30 ish to go in the game and almost an identical pass to Diggs that was picked and started the Saints momentum switch.  Both throws were very similar in execution and is something that Keenum has done all year.  Luckily that horseshoe has allowed more completions than interceptions.  It helps that Thielen and Diggs are really good on contested passes. 

I have been impressed with Keenum but as a tortured Vikings fan every time he throws up that back foot lob I keep waiting for it to knock them out of the playoffs in excruciating pain.  Hopefully the horseshoe remains firmly in place for two more weeks......hahaa

 

[Biabreakable]

Yeah I don't mean to understate how Keenums mobility has helped the team to give up fewer sacks. He doesn't get rattled. I do think he holds the ball too long at times if he isn't getting any pressure. There was one play where the Saints did 3 man rush and Keenum had a ton of time. Eventually Diggs works back to him as he is rolling right.

He throws across his body to Diggs who does get open but is double covered at the end of the play.

Result? Great!

Decision? Scary.

 

[Sebowski]

There is a 3rd thread on the same topic started by Gian also.

You could ask Joe to merge both threads as another option. I think I have blathered a fair amount in both of them.

It's a crazy year for QBs. And my team is involved (Redskins), so I'm extra fascinated. There is still a lot that could happen though. It's all fodder until we see how Case and Blake finish the season. Hell, maybe Foles lights up the next 2 games and wins SB MVP. Point is this conversation hasn't even really started.

New TV show: Case & Blake attorneys at law. Surf Law. Couple surfer lawyers who only try cases based around surfing.  

 

[Tool]

I am glad that at least 3 of you disagreed with me about Keenum.

I am talking about the negatives with him. There are a lot of positives too that you all point out.

He has pretty good pre snap reads as far as I can tell. To be honest I think a lot of the plays he executes are very easy plays and that most any QB should be able to convert them. Keenum holds the ball too long at times, but generally he makes the right read and is able to execute the plays. It does not look pretty when he does most of the time, but he gets it done.

My perspective about him is completely from watching him play this season though. It isn't about name recognition or anything like that as has been suggested. I just haven't talked much about what he does do well, was focused on what he doesn't do well.

Keenum is more aggressive than Bradford was in 2016 and that is a good thing. When I watch him I am comparing his throws to Bradford, and Bradfords throws are more accurate, they are better placed. I am not talking about the completion percentage, which as pointed out is very high for Keenum this year, however 4% lower than Bradfords in 2016. Most of the throws are within the 10 yard line. Keenum rarely pushes the ball down the field much more than that. When he does, it does not look very good. On deep throws that have actually connected, they are rainbow throws. Bradford could put those same throws on a rope and sometimes it would be better to do so.

Receivers have to make a lot of plays on the ball because Keenum will throw it too short (does this a lot) or behind the receiver, or too high, or he waits too long to throw it, so the receiver is better covered by the time the ball gets there. Part of this could just be communication. I have seen his throws to Rudolph improve over time and Keenum has been finding Diggs a lot more recently as well, after a few weeks of struggling with poor throws Diggs way.

Obviously Keenum has made some very good throws as well. As a fan I do focus more on the bad plays than the good ones. I have always had a defensive perspective about football, so thats kind of what I do when I watch offensive players is focus on their flaws and how the defense can exploit those flaws.

Keenum has balls of steel. He doesn't let pass rush phase him the way it does most QBs. Defenses need to hit him. The pressure isn't really going to change the way he plays if the defense doesn't hit him or somehow affect the ball. Keenum will take a big hit and hold the ball to the last tick if he needs to.

Even the play now being called the Minneapolis Miricle was a pass that was too high. This ended up working out GREAT but the throw likely didn't need to be so high and if it wasn't Diggs would not have needed to stop and go up for it the way he did. The Saints safety might have tackled him fine if Diggs didn't have to go up for it.

Zimmer says Keenum has a horse shoe. Whatever it is, its working and I hope he can keep it going. Just being honest though that from a defensive perspective Keenum looks like a QB who can turn the ball over a lot more than he has. He does give his good receivers a chance to make plays. Some of the throws a more conservative QB (like Bradford) might not risk. There is a positive side of that when it works obviously. There are inaccurate, poorly placed throws also where the receiver has no chance to make the play, or Keenum is making the play a lot more difficult for the receiver to execute.

Well Bradford is better and if he had stayed healthy would have had a huge season. But he's like Lucy with the football with his injuries.

 

[Chaka]

As Biabreakable mentioned even though his completion percentage is high his accuracy leaves a lot of yards on the table.  The pass is completed because his WR's are really good but they could be much bigger plays if the throws were accurate.  They are good enough but could be so much better.

I think Keenum's biggest advantage over Bradford is that he extends plays and can pick up yards on the ground when things break down.  That has been the biggest advantage he has given the Vikes this year.  The O-Line has been a lot better than years past but when there is pressure Keenum has been able to avoid it to make a big play downfield to Thielen or Diggs.  Those extend drives and have put the Vikes in the position they are. 

My biggest worry is the off the back foot jump balls that he throws.  There were two prime examples in the last game.  The one to Thielen for the FG to put the Vikes up with 1:30 ish to go in the game and almost an identical pass to Diggs that was picked and started the Saints momentum switch.  Both throws were very similar in execution and is something that Keenum has done all year.  Luckily that horseshoe has allowed more completions than interceptions.  It helps that Thielen and Diggs are really good on contested passes. 

I have been impressed with Keenum but as a tortured Vikings fan every time he throws up that back foot lob I keep waiting for it to knock them out of the playoffs in excruciating pain.  Hopefully the horseshoe remains firmly in place for two more weeks......hahaa

I'm sorry but like I said in my post that you quoted i can't attribute his 68% completion rate and his 1.5% interception rate entirely to his receivers. Diggs and Thielen are top notch but are we to believe that they are so much better than, say, Antonio Brown, JuJu & the rest of Pittsburgh's weapons to account for 4+% better completions and 1% better INT rate? Heck Tom Brady was 1.7% worse on completions and only 0.1% better in INTs.

No. There is something more to it than just Minnesota having one of the best 1-2 WE combos in the league. Two things stand out in that 1) Diggs was hurt for significant portions of the season and 2) You don't get to be one of the best 1-2 wr combos in the league without a good to excellent QB throwing the ball.

This may just be an aberrant magical year for Keenum but he deserves more credit than what you and @Biabreakable are giving him.

 

[Sebowski]

Eyeball test results are in: Case can play. 

 

[Biabreakable]

I'm sorry but like I said in my post that you quoted i can't attribute his 68% completion rate and his 1.5% interception rate entirely to his receivers. Diggs and Thielen are top notch but are we to believe that they are so much better than, say, Antonio Brown, JuJu & the rest of Pittsburgh's weapons to account for 4+% better completions and 1% better INT rate? Heck Tom Brady was 1.7% worse on completions and only 0.1% better in INTs.

No. There is something more to it than just Minnesota having one of the best 1-2 WE combos in the league. Two things stand out in that 1) Diggs was hurt for significant portions of the season and 2) You don't get to be one of the best 1-2 wr combos in the league without a good to excellent QB throwing the ball.

This may just be an aberrant magical year for Keenum but he deserves more credit than what you and @Biabreakable are giving him.

You are probably right that Keenum deserves more praise than I have given him.

However the completion percentage isn't why in my opinion. The difference in this statistic compared to Tom Brady or whoever is because of Case Keenum, but it is also because of an offense that leads to easy completions. As I said Keenum is making some good pre snap reads and when the defense gives him an easy completion he takes it. This is the majority of the plays.

Part of the reason these are easy completions is because the WR are good. I know that Stefon Diggs was leading the league in converting contested catches and Adam Thielen is up there in this as well. They don't drop many passes either. Keenum has had good success throwing to the RB as well.

One of Keenums interceptions was off a pass that was too high to Diggs on the sideline, Diggs goes up for the ball but it bounces off of him and into a defenders hands. There have been several plays like this, Diggs has caught most of them except this one. So on this play do you say it was Diggs fault for not catching the ball? Or do you say that Keenum threw the ball too high? Personally I think he threw the ball too high.

The completion percentage is very much tied to the type of offense they are executing however. 

Sam Bradford in a game and a half of the season has 74.4% completion rate. He threw a higher percentage of deeper throws than Keenum as well.

Last season Sam Bradford completed 71.6% of his passes in this offense in 2016. When the Vikings could not run the ball.

There is a pretty clear evidence of this offense having a high completion rate for its starting QB. It isn't something that is unique to Case Keenum.

Keenum has been very good at passes off of play action. That would not be possible if the Vikings were not running the ball well. The Vikings offensive line is much better this season than it was last year as well.

 

[Sebowski]

2nd eyeball test results are in: Sam Bradford sucks. 

 

[Sebowski]

It's a crazy year for QBs. And my team is involved (Redskins), so I'm extra fascinated. There is still a lot that could happen though. It's all fodder until we see how Case and Blake finish the season. Hell, maybe Foles lights up the next 2 games and wins SB MVP. Point is this conversation hasn't even really started.

New TV show: Case & Blake attorneys at law. Surf Law. Couple surfer lawyers who only try cases based around surfing.  

Ok. So Blake did well enough enough to get another crack next year. I don't see the Jags signing or drafting a starting caliber QB.  

Case had a rough day. Vikings probably get him to resign and have him and Bridgewater compete for the job. 

Shurmer to the Giants is interesting. If he went to AZ I would have bet on him bringing Bradfro with him. Now he has Eli. And a high pick. Total wildcard for me. No idea if they draft a successor or Shurmer thinks he can put a run together with Eli. They draft Barkley and get all their WRs back healthy with Engram improving and all the sudden the offense is a strength. 

This leaves Bradford hanging. Him and Cousins are the top FAs after Case and Bridgewater re-sign. Alex Smith is available, but it will cost a draft pick. 

Browns, Jets, Broncos, Redskins, Cardinals, and Bills all need a QB. I'm guessing the former three all go for rookies since they are in the top 6 of the draft. That only leaves the Redskins, Cardinals, and Bills bidding for Bradford and Cousins, with Alex Smith also an option and Baker Mayfield available in this scenario as well. 

I don't think Cousins is going to find the market he was hoping for and will take a deal to stay with the Redskins. If the Cardinals throw a boatload of cash at him, Skins draft Mayfield. As a Skins fan, I'm happy either way there. 

Another scenario: Cardinals fall in love with a rookie and trade up to the Giants spot to draft one. That would leave the Broncos out of the top 3 rookies and reaching for Mayfield or back in the Cousins game. 

/ramble

ETA: Oh, and look at Foles. He has another game like that and another starting QB is on the market. That sounds like a classic Bills move. Bills trade for Foles. 

 

[Foosball God]

Ok. So Blake did well enough enough to get another crack next year. I don't see the Jags signing or drafting a starting caliber QB.  

Case had a rough day. Vikings probably get him to resign and have him and Bridgewater compete for the job. 

Shurmer to the Giants is interesting. If he went to AZ I would have bet on him bringing Bradfro with him. Now he has Eli. And a high pick. Total wildcard for me. No idea if they draft a successor or Shurmer thinks he can put a run together with Eli. They draft Barkley and get all their WRs back healthy with Engram improving and all the sudden the offense is a strength. 

This leaves Bradford hanging. Him and Cousins are the top FAs after Case and Bridgewater re-sign. Alex Smith is available, but it will cost a draft pick. 

Browns, Jets, Broncos, Redskins, Cardinals, and Bills all need a QB. I'm guessing the former three all go for rookies since they are in the top 6 of the draft. That only leaves the Redskins, Cardinals, and Bills bidding for Bradford and Cousins, with Alex Smith also an option and Baker Mayfield available in this scenario as well. 

I don't think Cousins is going to find the market he was hoping for and will take a deal to stay with the Redskins. If the Cardinals throw a boatload of cash at him, Skins draft Mayfield. As a Skins fan, I'm happy either way there. 

Another scenario: Cardinals fall in love with a rookie and trade up to the Giants spot to draft one. That would leave the Broncos out of the top 3 rookies and reaching for Mayfield or back in the Cousins game. 

/ramble

ETA: Oh, and look at Foles. He has another game like that and another starting QB is on the market. That sounds like a classic Bills move. Bills trade for Foles. 

One decent game and suddenly you think the Jags won't be bringing in a starting caliber QB?

I don't see Cousins staying with the Skins at this point.  Someone will throw at least comparable money at him and he'll go somewhere that actually wants him instead of Washington that clearly just sees him a JAG and not special.

 

[Foosball God]

For the record I think Cleveland signs Cousins and uses their top two picks on defensive line and Barkley.

 

[-OZ-]

For the record I think Cleveland signs Cousins and uses their top two picks on defensive line and Barkley.

Honest question, do you think cousins would want to play in Cleveland? Or are you assuming they break the bank for him. Or no other team is all that interested?

 

[Sebowski]

One decent game and suddenly you think the Jags won't be bringing in a starting caliber QB?

I don't see Cousins staying with the Skins at this point.  Someone will throw at least comparable money at him and he'll go somewhere that actually wants him instead of Washington that clearly just sees him a JAG and not special.

No, not just one good game. The owner went out of his way before the playoffs to say Bortles is their franchise guy. I didn't make much of it at the time, but no with the context of them being so close to a Super Bowl experience I take the owner's words more seriously. I think they try to strengthen everywhere else and make another run. 

"somewhere that actually wants him"   Please. That is a tired narrative. Of course they want him. Just not at highest player in the league money. They have their value set on him just like everyone else. We'll see where that lines up with the market when that opens up. But they absolutely would prefer to hang on to him. 

 

[Sebowski]

Honest question, do you think cousins would want to play in Cleveland? Or are you assuming they break the bank for him. Or no other team is all that interested?

Yeah why not. Historic franchise that is just begging for a savior. Good upside at the skill positions, good O-Line, budding defense. Great fanbase. And if they sign Cousins that means they can get 2 impact players in this draft without using a pick on a QB. 

But if I'm Cleveland I take a shot at trying the next great/elite QB with that top pick instead of middle of the road/capable 29 year old Kirk Cousins. 

 

[Statorama]

If they all threw the same amount of years/money at him, if you were Cousins where would you want to go between Wash / Cle / Den / Jax / AZ ?  I kinda like the AZ gig.  DJ returning, Fitz would likely return if Cousins was going to be under center, 8 games under the dome, AZ is a nice place to live...

Cleveland is also interesting because they strike me as a team that's just a couple of players and a good coach from making a Jax type turnaround.  If Hue Jackson suddenly had an NFL caliber offense to lead, would he be a better coach?

Side note: isn't Florida some kind of Tax Haven?  That might have some impact if Jax came calling.

Other side note: Cousins is a churchy churchmeiser, so you won't have to worry about him embarrassing the franchise off the field (I'm looking at you Manziel)

 

[Foosball God]

Honest question, do you think cousins would want to play in Cleveland? Or are you assuming they break the bank for him. Or no other team is all that interested?

I think Cousins has supreme confidence in himself so the fact that it is Cleveland won't bother him, assuming they back up the truck and pay him near the top of the QB market.

 

[Sebowski]

If they all threw the same amount of years/money at him, if you were Cousins where would you want to go between Wash / Cle / Den / Jax / AZ ?  I kinda like the AZ gig.  DJ returning, Fitz would likely return if Cousins was going to be under center, 8 games under the dome, AZ is a nice place to live...

Cleveland is also interesting because they strike me as a team that's just a couple of players and a good coach from making a Jax type turnaround.  If Hue Jackson suddenly had an NFL caliber offense to lead, would he be a better coach?

Side note: isn't Florida some kind of Tax Haven?  That might have some impact if Jax came calling.

Other side note: Cousins is a churchy churchmeiser, so you won't have to worry about him embarrassing the franchise off the field (I'm looking at you Manziel)

I think there is a lot to be said for consistency in a system. If Cousins agrees with me, he stays in Washington. If that doesn't mean anything, anywhere but Washington may be his best option. Skill positions in Washington are garbage. Worst of every single team that needs a QB. Hopefully they can address that in free agency and the draft. Though giving Kirk all the cap space won't help. That's why I think it's best for both parties that Kirk goes elsewhere. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Eyeball test results are in: Case can play. 

Here read the bottom line of this chart.

It reads no Case Keenum is not a starting QB.

Also invalidates your second eyeball test on Sam Bradford.

 

[Sebowski]

Here read the bottom line of this chart.

It reads no Case Keenum is not a starting QB.

Also invalidates your second eyeball test on Sam Bradford.

 

Case didn't cover himself in glory on Sunday, but he looked like a gamer to me in the few Vikings games I saw. Maybe one of those guys that needs everything around him to fit though. 

I've never liked Bradford. He just doesn't look the part when I watch him play. Plus he's always hurt. I don't trust him with the ball or to stay healthy. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

just chiming in to comment on the two teams I feel I know the most about as a KC fan living about an hour north of Denver....

Alex Smith: feel the Chiefs would love to deal him, just not to Denver.....his value could not be any higher than it is right now....they will get the most ROI by dealing him now....next year he walks, so why not deal him.....Mahomes is the real deal and I think we saw enough of it in the last game against DEN where he played well enough to get a big lead....got pulled so the 3rd stringer could get some work, which resulted in Den coming back to tie the game and then Mahomes brought back in and leads the team on a game winning drive to end the game....Broncos such as Von, Talib, and Chris Harris (prob their 3 best defenders) all took the time to comment that they couldn't lie they thought Mahomes was the "real deal"....I feel that while Alex Smith was tremendous, this team is ready for the new era to begin....Smith just couldn't get them over the hump and Mahomes is probably good enough to get them just as far as Smith (probably farther)....if they don't trade him, he plays one more year and then walks...I think KC would prefer not to trade him to any team in the AFC, but I feel Den is for sure out of the picture....I think they will get a decent offer from one of the other QB needy clubs and pull the trigger....my early lean----ARZ or the Jets

DENVER: if anybody watched this team at all this year....they are a lot further away than many people think....I saw it posted a few times they are "just a QB away"...one could easily argue they are the worst team in the division heading into next year even if they do get Cousins....they have a ton of holes (offensive line) and the defense and the vaunted "no fly zone" got picked apart often this year.....Talib will not be back...if they choose to sign Cousins it will come at the expense of a few other pieces such as one of DT or Sanders....Elway gave Von QB type money ($20 mil plus) so just bringing on Cousins at say at least $28 mil a year is not as easy as some think....there would be a ton of other moves that would need to happen to make this happen....Elway just signed a new 5 year contract and he probably won't sign another one....I'm not sure he, and definitely not the fan base is willing to wait an additional few years for a rookie to develop and lead them back to the playoffs....so I believe they will make a hard play at Cousins, just to "save face" even if it doesn't work out and Cousins doesn't get them back to the playoffs....they can at least "say" they addressed their biggest need and then they will fix other issues later....someone mentioned Lynch above...lol...I can tell you that unless Chad Kelly surprises, the starting QB next year is nowhere to be found around these parts.....the only other problem is that there is no slam dunk QB in this draft (like say an Andrew Luck) and Denver is super gun shy about swinging and missing on another QB like they did on Oz and Lynch....Elways (post Manning era) bad decisions throughout the drafts and free agency that he has been a part of, most notably at QB have created a ton of collateral damage that is rearing its head.....he is going to go all in on Cousins in an effort to save face....most important off season of Elway's GM career is about to begin and he is in a tough spot cause if he doesn't get Cousins, he is looking at guys like Keenum etc. and a rokie that won't really please the fans and probably aren't good enough to get them to the playoffs.....my early lean----all in on Cousins, if not....a rookie at #5 and Josh McCown...

 

[Biabreakable]

 

Case didn't cover himself in glory on Sunday, but he looked like a gamer to me in the few Vikings games I saw. Maybe one of those guys that needs everything around him to fit though. 

I've never liked Bradford. He just doesn't look the part when I watch him play. Plus he's always hurt. I don't trust him with the ball or to stay healthy. 

After watching both players every game for the past two years I think neither of them are starters, but you have a better chance of winning with Bradford than you do Keenum.

Keenum is a more mobile player than Bradford, but he doesn't read defenses as well. Bradford is more accurate and has the better arm.

You need better protection for Bradford than Keenum. No matter what you have around Keenum he is still going to make bad reads and risk turnovers.

I would rather have Kirk Cousins than either of them, if that were an option.

 

[Snorkelson]

I think there is a lot to be said for consistency in a system. If Cousins agrees with me, he stays in Washington. If that doesn't mean anything, anywhere but Washington may be his best option. Skill positions in Washington are garbage. Worst of every single team that needs a QB. Hopefully they can address that in free agency and the draft. Though giving Kirk all the cap space won't help. That's why I think it's best for both parties that Kirk goes elsewhere. 

Cousins is a smart guy and money isn’t going to be the deciding factor. I think the current roster and the front office will be much more important to him than money. I don’t think Washington’s front office has a chance at resigning him, they’ll have to franchise him if they want him and maybe then they will try to get a long term contract done but will be at a negotiating disadvantage. They have absolutely blown this and will be going back to the barrel at qb. 

 

[-OZ-]

After watching both players every game for the past two years I think neither of them are starters, but you have a better chance of winning with Bradford than you do Keenum.

Keenum is a more mobile player than Bradford, but he doesn't read defenses as well. Bradford is more accurate and has the better arm.

You need better protection for Bradford than Keenum. No matter what you have around Keenum he is still going to make bad reads and risk turnovers.

I would rather have Kirk Cousins than either of them, if that were an option.

Yes to cousins over either.

I'll agree that keenum isn't a guy you build your team around but from what I see he's one of the top 32 QBs in the league. Same with Bradford.

At the absolute worst, Keenum is on par with Mike Glennon, so he'll get paid this off season.

 

[Snorkelson]

Op edited 1/31, smith to Washington, mahomes era begins, Cleveland goes back to the drawing board, barkley perhaps an option at 2 for nyg

 

[-OZ-]

I'm betting on cousins being a Jet.

And the Jets finishing 2nd in the division next year. Just miss on the wild card.

 

[shadyridr]

Yep cousins to the jets is my guess as well

 

[Snorkelson]

I'm betting on cousins being a Jet.

And the Jets finishing 2nd in the division next year. Just miss on the wild card.

Bump up.......Quincy enunwa?

 

[-OZ-]

Bump up.......Quincy enunwa?

ASJ, enunwa, Stewart, FA/rookie. (Draft Ridley)

Is Anderson suspended for the year?

 

[Snorkelson]

ASJ, enunwa, Stewart, FA/rookie. (Draft Ridley)

Is Anderson suspended for the year?

Don’t think so, yet. Pending, probably investigating now. He just plead not guilty, so we’ll see if there’s some sort of plea deal,  then I’d imagine the nfl will review it and announce it sometime this summer. The Jets are probably a good guess- likely that Minnesota and Jax stay in house. Cleveland, Arizona, Jets, Denver, who am I missing?

 

[Sebowski]

It's a crazy year for QBs. And my team is involved (Redskins), so I'm extra fascinated. There is still a lot that could happen though. It's all fodder until we see how Case and Blake finish the season. Hell, maybe Foles lights up the next 2 games and wins SB MVP. Point is this conversation hasn't even really started.

 

[Snorkelson]

While foles seems like a hot commodity, I think he is on the eagles next year. Wentz is not guaranteed to be ready week 1, price isn’t prohibitive. Too bad for foles, maybe, who’s to say he even wants to be a starter? As has been mentioned exhaustively through the playoffs, he was a camping trip away from retiring. He may have just wrote his nfl story and can sit back with a clipboard and collect millions. We all assume that every player wants to be out there as long as possible and get as many snaps as they can, but we all know some players don’t. 

 

[-OZ-]

While foles seems like a hot commodity, I think he is on the eagles next year. Wentz is not guaranteed to be ready week 1, price isn’t prohibitive. Too bad for foles, maybe, who’s to say he even wants to be a starter? As has been mentioned exhaustively through the playoffs, he was a camping trip away from retiring. He may have just wrote his nfl story and can sit back with a clipboard and collect millions. We all assume that every player wants to be out there as long as possible and get as many snaps as they can, but we all know some players don’t. 

I'd think he's more competitive than that, that he wants to start. But he's probably not miserable collecting millions as one of the most popular people in Philly right now. 

I think you're right, given that Wentz isn't a lock to start week 1, even without setbacks, they'll want to keep him. 

But, if they can get a 2nd round pick, and draft a guy they like, it wouldn't be a surprise if they traded him. 

The eagles are in a really good spot right now (even not including the championship), no real need to do much here but I'm sure they'll listen. 

 

[Snorkelson]

Speculation as to which teams might draft a qb- 

Cleveland- missed out on smith, perhaps they make a run at cousins but the feeling I get is they will draft their guy at 1. A vet could still find their way to Cleveland but it may be one of the lesser vets that will start the year and get benched if they aren’t looking playoff caliber. 

NYG- it will be very interesting to see what they do- draft the heir to Eli with a premium pick in a loaded class? Take barkley if he’s there? They are also in a prime place to trade back- a drop back to 5-8 range could get a much needed olineman and some extra picks. Lots of teams could be looking to move up for a qb, probably a few that would like to move up for barkley too. 

Den- lacks cap fluidity to make a serious run at cousins- could stand pat and get the 3-4th qb off the board. May get usurped if Cleveland moves the 1.04. 

NYJ- i didn’t realize they picked this high. They could get a nice qb prospect but eyes are on them to move up for the guy they want over what’s left. Lots of cap room, get could get into the cousins bidding. Is the team/staff attractive enough? 

If a couple vets  go to the above teams it will kick some qb talent down the ladder. 11-13 picks (miami, Cincy, wash) could feasibly take a guy. They also could be a target for teams looking to move up to get one of the last remaining- 

arizona- picking in the middle of the 1st they may have to move up to get someone or reach. ARI has surprised during the arians era, I’m skeptical the new staff will repeat the success. 

Ravens and chargers could theoretically get their future signal caller.

Buffalo has 2 later 1sts, perhaps they use that ammo to move up. I’ve never seen a playoff team with so many questions. 

Minnesota- the most attractive free agent landing spot, they could be looking for a backup if Teddy’s contract doesn’t toll. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

While foles seems like a hot commodity, I think he is on the eagles next year.

Nick is under contract at a reasonable price.  He just had a great run.  It would be in his best interest to sit behind Carson until his contract is up and he hits free agency.  It would be even better if he didn't take any snaps before that time so the last tape other teams see of him is when he was at his best.  

NYG- it will be very interesting to see what they do- draft the heir to Eli with a premium pick in a loaded class? Take barkley if he’s there? They are also in a prime place to trade back- a drop back to 5-8 range could get a much needed olineman and some extra picks. Lots of teams could be looking to move up for a qb, probably a few that would like to move up for barkley too. 

I am not buying the talk about the Giants bypassing the chance to take a QB with the 2nd pick of the draft.  I think they have their eyes set on Josh Rosen and are praying that the Browns don't take him with the top pick.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The team I do not see mentioned often is the Patriots.  I don't see how they can go into next year with the situation they currently have. Sure they can whistle past the graveyard with a 41 year old guy as starter and a 38 year old journeyman as backup, but they pretty much have to address the position.

Names that seem to have fallen from favor as of late seem to be A.J. McCarren and Tyrod Taylor.  Both represent at least very interesting backup guys.  Me, I am also intrigued by Taysom Hill, Kyle Stoler, and Joe Callahan.

I will be watching Jacksonville with a great deal of interest, the Steelers too, for different reasons.  Jackson can easily convince itself they are a Q.b. away or they could drink the Bortles Koolaid, and Pittsburgh has to be planning for post Roethlisberger soon. 

Saints, well they play an old belligerent dwarf at Q.B.  I have to admit I am a big fan, but I can see him one hit away from retirement at this point.

Finally I am wondering if Osweiller is done, and the same for Paxton Lynch, can he find a job?

 

[-OZ-]

.

Finally I am wondering if Osweiller is done, and the same for Paxton Lynch, can he find a job?

I don't know if anyone thinks Lynch is worth having but if Philly likes him as a backup, trading foles for Lynch and a pick seems to have merit. If Denver offered a 2nd and talib for Alex Smith, a 2nd and Lynch for foles seems viable.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I don't know if anyone thinks Lynch is worth having but if Philly likes him as a backup, trading foles for Lynch and a pick seems to have merit. If Denver offered a 2nd and talib for Alex Smith, a 2nd and Lynch for foles seems viable.

Paxton Lynch?  :X  As an Eagles fan, I'm not exaggerating when I say I think I'd prefer Chad Kelly.

 

[Tool]

The team I do not see mentioned often is the Patriots.  I don't see how they can go into next year with the situation they currently have. Sure they can whistle past the graveyard with a 41 year old guy as starter and a 38 year old journeyman as backup, but they pretty much have to address the position.

Names that seem to have fallen from favor as of late seem to be A.J. McCarren and Tyrod Taylor.  Both represent at least very interesting backup guys.  Me, I am also intrigued by Taysom Hill, Kyle Stoler, and Joe Callahan.

I will be watching Jacksonville with a great deal of interest, the Steelers too, for different reasons.  Jackson can easily convince itself they are a Q.b. away or they could drink the Bortles Koolaid, and Pittsburgh has to be planning for post Roethlisberger soon. 

Saints, well they play an old belligerent dwarf at Q.B.  I have to admit I am a big fan, but I can see him one hit away from retirement at this point.

Finally I am wondering if Osweiller is done, and the same for Paxton Lynch, can he find a job?

This takes the cake man, congrats. Hoyer is 32, btw.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

This takes the cake man, congrats. Hoyer is 32, btw.

I am not suggesting that Brady, coming off maybe his best performance ever, should not be the starter.  I am suggesting that they are one slip in the bathtub, one trip when he is playing with his kids, more less one hit from some crazy SOB like Vontaze Burfict away from being done. I am suggesting that they have to address a succession plan in this draft.  As for Hoyer, my bad, in my head I was thinking McNown, not Hoyer.  My point stands however.  This franchise is vulnerable at the position and needs to address it in the draft.  Folks do not think of them as a Q.b. needy team, but they are.