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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (1 Viewer)

Long Ball Larry said:
Some were annoyed at the time, but I doubt they would use it as a reason not to smooth downward.  Also, getting the cap and % of cap and slotted contracts up ASAP probably helped everyone ultimately 
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I haven't thought about the ramifications of downward smoothing, but the 2016 free agents soaked up a ton of money that 2017-2019 free agents would have otherwise had access to.  I guess spiking downward would have the opposite effect - everyone who is a free agent this year would get sort of unfairly screwed.

 
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thecatch said:
I haven't thought about the ramifications of downward smoothing, but the 2016 free agents soaked up a ton of money that 2017-2019 free agents would have otherwise had access to.  I guess spiking downward would have the opposite effect - everyone who is a free agent this year would get sort of unfairly screwed.
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which of the 2017-2019 free agents really lost out?

Here is 2017.  Who should have or could have gotten more?

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/30/15897582/2017-nba-free-agency-signings-tracker

Maybe Tucker could have gotten more, but it's not like the money wasn't really there.  Gallo and Ibaka?  Perhaps slightly squeezed, but I don't know that it was realistic for them to get that much more.

I realize that there are a lot of different variables that affected this landscape (players opting in or not or signing different extensions based on the available money).  I'm just not sure in the end how much difference it would have made to add $8 million per year or whatever over a couple of years.  I would like to know of a number of examples that would mean it made a big difference.

Also, what if they agreed to the smoothing and then in 2017 we get the Morey comments and coronavirus and they can't do what was expected.  Then they don't boost the baseline and people miss out.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just want like to think through the real mechanics of this whole thing a little more, because I'm not convinced that the spike was really negative for the players on balance.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
which of the 2017-2019 free agents really lost out?

Here is 2017.  Who should have or could have gotten more?

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/30/15897582/2017-nba-free-agency-signings-tracker

Maybe Tucker could have gotten more, but it's not like the money wasn't really there.  Gallo and Ibaka?  Perhaps slightly squeezed, but I don't know that it was realistic for them to get that much more.

I realize that there are a lot of different variables that affected this landscape (players opting in or not or signing different extensions based on the available money).  I'm just not sure in the end how much difference it would have made to add $8 million per year or whatever over a couple of years.  I would like to know of a number of examples that would mean it made a big difference.

Also, what if they agreed to the smoothing and then in 2017 we get the Morey comments and coronavirus and they can't do what was expected.  Then they don't boost the baseline and people miss out.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just want like to think through the real mechanics of this whole thing a little more, because I'm not convinced that the spike was really negative for the players on balance.
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Teams went crazy in 2016 and spent a huge amount of 2017, 2018, and 2019 money in these 3-4 year contracts, which pushed down the available free agent money in those years. I can’t find Danny Leroux’s articles where he talks about league wide cap space in those years, but here is an article that says free agent spending went from $5 billion in 2016 to $3 billion in 2017. I didn’t look at the list you linked to, but the answer is all of them would or should have made more.
 

The “players” on aggregate were the same with or without smoothing - they get a set percentage of BRI. But the 2016 free agent class grabbed a bigger share of that pie than those who hit before or after. 

 
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thecatch said:
Teams went crazy in 2016 and spent a huge amount of 2017, 2018, and 2019 money in these 3-4 year contracts, which pushed down the available free agent money in those years. I can’t find Danny Leroux’s articles where he talks about league wide cap space in those years, but here is an article that says free agent spending went from $5 billion in 2016 to $3 billion in 2017. I didn’t look at the list you linked to, but the answer is all of them would or should have made more.
 

The “players” on aggregate were the same with or without smoothing - they get a set percentage of BRI. But the 2016 free agent class grabbed a bigger share of that pie than those who hit before or after. 
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Eh, I don’t find the total contract values particularly compelling.  I guess the teams  got crazy with long term deals for whatever reason, but I’m not sure that really means that the cap spike was bad for the players.  If you just want to do a top down total contract value handed out, it doesn’t seem particularly persuasive to me.  Explain more about who lost out and how.  

Not that I think you personally owe me an explanation, just talking in general terms.

 
A second Heat player has tested positive for COVID-19, and the Heat will shut down individual workouts at AmericanAirlines Arena, according to Ethan Skolnick of Five Reasons Sports.

Derrick Jones Jr. is the first positive test, and it's currently unknown who has also tested positive on the Heat. Ira Winderman of the Sun Sentinel does add that it is a rotation player. The Heat are headed to Orlando on July 8, and they will resume activities in the Disney facilities.

RELATED: 

Adam Silver

SOURCE: Ethan Skolnick on Twitter

Jul 3, 2020, 3:07 PM ET
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So how long do we give it before the Disney facilities get closed down?

 
@wojespn

The Milwaukee Bucks have shut down the team’s practice facility after receiving results of a Friday round of coronavirus testing, sources tell ESPN. The team isn’t expected to reopen facility for workouts prior to the organization's traveling party leaving for Orlando Thursday.
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So this all magically goes away when they go to Orlando? 

This thing feels like a pipedream. Have a feeling if they do attempt this, we'll be seeing G league guys and Anthony Bennett deciding playoff games.

 
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@wojespn

Prince is the fourth Nets player – including DeAndre Jordan, Spencer Dinwiddie and Wilson Chandler – to opt-out of the league’s restart. Nets are eligible to sign four substitute players. Team departed this evening for Orlando.
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@wojespn

Brooklyn Nets forward Taurean Prince has tested positive for the coronavirus and will sit out the NBA’s restart in Orlando, sources tell ESPN.
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Ouch.

@BobbyMarks42

Nets roster heading to Orlando

Chris Chiozza

Tyler Johnson

Caris LeVert

Garrett Temple

Jeremiah Martin

Justin Anderson

Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot

Joe Harris

Dzanan Musa

Rodions Kurucs

Jarrett Allen

Substitute 1

Substitute 2

Substitute 3
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
So this all magically goes away when they go to Orlando? 

This thing feels like a pipedream. Have a feeling if they do attempt this, we'll be seeing G league guys and Anthony Bennett deciding playoff games.
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it really does feel like whichever team can be the most anti-social and stay away from everyone else will win the championship this year. teams should skip the 8 regular season games and forfeit them

 
Dwight Howard refuses to wear a mask. 

"I understand the whole 'wear a mask' and all that stuff, so nobody is not trying to do anything out of order. But, you know, again, I understand that there always has to be some type of controversy somewhere. And I'm not in no controversy. You know what I'm saying? I get it. It's clickbait."

This came after the NBA warned Howard again for not wearing a mask, as required and clearly outlined in the league's protocols for play in the bubble. Those things, from the rules to warning, are "facts," not "clickbait." Enough of those warnings and Howard could leave an already depleted contender without his services. And here's another warning, a friendly reminder of the obvious for someone who clearly needs it: This pandemic, and its fallout, are about more than just you and your misguided need to be mask free.

That's a sign of the benefits of utter caution, not proof everything is certain to be well. We know the virus is contagious in the extreme. We know preventing spread is critically important, particularly for the NBA's goal of salvaging what they can of this season. We know Florida, and the Orlando area, are rife with positive cases. We know Disney employees must -- and do -- come and go from the bubble to make it work. And we know for each team, the Lakers of course included, a single spreader among them could spell the end of their chances.

Let's get into some uncomfortable truths about Howard. He admitted this week to being part of the anti-vaccination crowd, with words that do not exactly strike confidence in his worldview on science and facts: "Do I believe in vaccinations? No, I don't. That's my personal opinion, but no, I don't."

Howard has told us about his lack of faith and belief in the science of COVID-19, and that raises more uncomfortable concerns. Because those who don't take this virus seriously are more likely to acquire it, and pass it on.

 
Capella said:
Almost went with a “Dwight Howard gets covid, immediately impregnates it”‘ thread title but figured that would get me into the timeout bin
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That seems innocent enough..maybe a week tops if anything.

 
Capella said:
Almost went with a “Dwight Howard gets covid, immediately impregnates it”‘ thread title but figured that would get me into the timeout bin
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If we can't make Dwight Howard is promiscuous jokes, COVID truly has won.  :sadbanana:  

 
Da Guru said:
Dwight Howard refuses to wear a mask. 

"I understand the whole 'wear a mask' and all that stuff, so nobody is not trying to do anything out of order. But, you know, again, I understand that there always has to be some type of controversy somewhere. And I'm not in no controversy. You know what I'm saying? I get it. It's clickbait."

This came after the NBA warned Howard again for not wearing a mask, as required and clearly outlined in the league's protocols for play in the bubble. Those things, from the rules to warning, are "facts," not "clickbait." Enough of those warnings and Howard could leave an already depleted contender without his services. And here's another warning, a friendly reminder of the obvious for someone who clearly needs it: This pandemic, and its fallout, are about more than just you and your misguided need to be mask free.

That's a sign of the benefits of utter caution, not proof everything is certain to be well. We know the virus is contagious in the extreme. We know preventing spread is critically important, particularly for the NBA's goal of salvaging what they can of this season. We know Florida, and the Orlando area, are rife with positive cases. We know Disney employees must -- and do -- come and go from the bubble to make it work. And we know for each team, the Lakers of course included, a single spreader among them could spell the end of their chances.

Let's get into some uncomfortable truths about Howard. He admitted this week to being part of the anti-vaccination crowd, with words that do not exactly strike confidence in his worldview on science and facts: "Do I believe in vaccinations? No, I don't. That's my personal opinion, but no, I don't."

Howard has told us about his lack of faith and belief in the science of COVID-19, and that raises more uncomfortable concerns. Because those who don't take this virus seriously are more likely to acquire it, and pass it on.
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Threaten to withhold skittles unless he wears a mask.

 
Not finding anything searching a bit but have not searched the dark web. Any sites running restart fantasy hoops?

Watched Wiz/Nuggets scrimmage yesterday. This bubble is gonna be great if it doesn’t pop. 

 
bushdocda said:
Not finding anything searching a bit but have not searched the dark web. Any sites running restart fantasy hoops?

Watched Wiz/Nuggets scrimmage yesterday. This bubble is gonna be great if it doesn’t pop. 
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I watched a few minutes of that. The four yahoos at the top of the screen on their Skype call ruined it. I saw a little of a later game and it was far better. Just had normal announcers. 

 
Saw a bit of my first preseason game today while on the treadmill. Spurs game. Empty arena. Three rows of seats with the rest hidden by wall hangings. Felt like I was watching a pick-up game at the Y. Watched a few minutes then turned the channel. Just not the same.

 
Sand said:
It was a combo funeral/strip club trip - no better way to grieve the loss of your father than with a lap dance or two.
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There'd be no better way to honor my life than with a lap dance + chicken wings. I might write it into my will.

 
More bad news for the NBA about China. For all the talk about how Silver is "pitching a perfect game" or whatever, he's going to be judged very, very, very poorly when we look back on how he's handled this entanglement. 

Edit: And I hope this isn't construed politically. Count me as being embarrassed to be on the side of Josh Hawley and Clay Travis.

 
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Rirruto said:
More bad news for the NBA about China. For all the talk about how Silver is "pitching a perfect game" or whatever, he's going to be judged very, very, very poorly when we look back on how he's handled this entanglement. 

Edit: And I hope this isn't construed politically. Count me as being embarrassed to be on the side of Josh Hawley and Clay Travis.
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This is an absolute bombshell. The NBA was partnering and working directly with the Chinese government to run basketball camps where kids were being punched and kicked by coaches, and where instead of being educated as promised, the kids were trained multiple times a day and sent back to their 2 person rooms crammed with bunk beds for 8. All this in the middle of a police state where tons of Uyghurs are being imprisoned in work camps.

Oh, and then the NBA attempted to cover it all up. First by quietly shutting the worst one down when questions arose (while refusing to respond to the questions), and then by telling everyone involved not to speak to ESPN and even telling them not to even tell ESPN that the NBA was telling them not to speak to ESPN.

So just remember the next time that the NBA is pushing a civil rights or social justice narrative (like starting this week when players will have league sanctioned messages in their jerseys) that the NBA only supports those things because they believe it’s what will make the money. Not only will the NBA not stand up for human rights abuses when it will cost them money, they will actively partner with those that abuse others.

Personally, this sickens me to the point where I’m done with the NBA unless they do a total 180 and it costs them a ton of money.

 
GroveDiesel said:
This is an absolute bombshell. The NBA was partnering and working directly with the Chinese government to run basketball camps where kids were being punched and kicked by coaches, and where instead of being educated as promised, the kids were trained multiple times a day and sent back to their 2 person rooms crammed with bunk beds for 8. All this in the middle of a police state where tons of Uyghurs are being imprisoned in work camps.

Oh, and then the NBA attempted to cover it all up. First by quietly shutting the worst one down when questions arose (while refusing to respond to the questions), and then by telling everyone involved not to speak to ESPN and even telling them not to even tell ESPN that the NBA was telling them not to speak to ESPN.

So just remember the next time that the NBA is pushing a civil rights or social justice narrative (like starting this week when players will have league sanctioned messages in their jerseys) that the NBA only supports those things because they believe it’s what will make the money. Not only will the NBA not stand up for human rights abuses when it will cost them money, they will actively partner with those that abuse others.

Personally, this sickens me to the point where I’m done with the NBA unless they do a total 180 and it costs them a ton of money.
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Players have the freedom to put social justice messages on their uniforms....except anything to do with Hong Kong, correct?

 
facook said:
Players have the freedom to put social justice messages on their uniforms....except anything to do with Hong Kong, correct?
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Not exactly. The NBAPA and NBA agreed on a list of terms/words/phrases that could go on the jerseys. If Chris Paul or LeBron or someone in the commissioners office had insisted on "Free Hong Kong" or "No concentration camps for Uyghurs", we're probably all smart enough to realize what would have happened.

 
GroveDiesel said:
This is an absolute bombshell. The NBA was partnering and working directly with the Chinese government to run basketball camps where kids were being punched and kicked by coaches, and where instead of being educated as promised, the kids were trained multiple times a day and sent back to their 2 person rooms crammed with bunk beds for 8. All this in the middle of a police state where tons of Uyghurs are being imprisoned in work camps.

Oh, and then the NBA attempted to cover it all up. First by quietly shutting the worst one down when questions arose (while refusing to respond to the questions), and then by telling everyone involved not to speak to ESPN and even telling them not to even tell ESPN that the NBA was telling them not to speak to ESPN.

So just remember the next time that the NBA is pushing a civil rights or social justice narrative (like starting this week when players will have league sanctioned messages in their jerseys) that the NBA only supports those things because they believe it’s what will make the money. Not only will the NBA not stand up for human rights abuses when it will cost them money, they will actively partner with those that abuse others.

Personally, this sickens me to the point where I’m done with the NBA unless they do a total 180 and it costs them a ton of money.
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This saddens me. Always thought the NBA was more moral than the NFL.

 
Rirruto said:
Not exactly. The NBAPA and NBA agreed on a list of terms/words/phrases that could go on the jerseys. If Chris Paul or LeBron or someone in the commissioners office had insisted on "Free Hong Kong" or "No concentration camps for Uyghurs", we're probably all smart enough to realize what would have happened.
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But they don't really care about ALL social justice, now do they?

ETA: We all realize they would never do that.  Silver doesn't want them to.  ESPN doesn't either.  Wonder why?

 
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