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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (3 Viewers)

need2know said:
Paul just had 32 pts and 9 assists in a win.  He's well on his way and if this continues he deserves it.  Stop hating
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Give Paul all the credit in the world after a great game 1.  However, Booker and Crowder had better +/-'s in the game and Ayton just put up 22 and 19 on 8-10 shooting and 6-6 from the line.  DeAndre Ayton is the single most irreplaceable player on the Suns roster right now.  Without him the Bucks are big brother-ing the Suns all game long.

Overall, most Chris Paul "hater" talk you read on the board is a reaction to Paul being a Hall of Fame flopper and some would say jackass on the basketball court for two decades.  Listening to the constant leadership mantra about him can be grating.  The Suns went 8-0 in the bubble last season, added Jae Crowder from a Finals team, a new head coach that knows what he's doing, a new state of the art practice facility, has three young starters that were making drastic improvements before this season, and the team has a rabid fan base that leads to a good home court advantage...but it's mainly Chris Paul's leadership?  It can be a bit much sometimes.

Harry Frogfish said:
You think that is hating???  Stop overreacting.
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Yeah, well, it's The Finals.  We're all upping our game to match the moment. 😄

 
trader jake said:
Give Paul all the credit in the world after a great game 1.  However, Booker and Crowder had better +/-'s in the game and Ayton just put up 22 and 19 on 8-10 shooting and 6-6 from the line.  DeAndre Ayton is the single most irreplaceable player on the Suns roster right now.  Without him the Bucks are big brother-ing the Suns all game long.

Overall, most Chris Paul "hater" talk you read on the board is a reaction to Paul being a Hall of Fame flopper and some would say jackass on the basketball court for two decades.  Listening to the constant leadership mantra about him can be grating.  The Suns went 8-0 in the bubble last season, added Jae Crowder from a Finals team, a new head coach that knows what he's doing, a new state of the art practice facility, has three young starters that were making drastic improvements before this season, and the team has a rabid fan base that leads to a good home court advantage...but it's mainly Chris Paul's leadership?  It can be a bit much sometimes.

Yeah, well, it's The Finals.  We're all upping our game to match the moment. 😄
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Paul's got a permanent chip on his shoulder.  But dude is a gamer.  Still like to think what would have happened in LA if the freakin' NBA didn't overturn Paul to the Lakers.  

 
What a game. Atmosphere hasn't been like this around here since Nash days (hard to believe that team never made a final but this one has). 

Was hoping to get my custom Campaign jersey :excited:   in mail to wear tonight but will have before game 2.

 
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Pipes said:
I don’t understand why the Bucks keep switching on D where Lopez ends up on Booker or Paul.  
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Because the other option is their usual "drop" coverage, which doesn't work either because Phoenix is just too good in the midrange. 

At the end of the day, the problem is that the Bucks just don't have the personnel to play long stretches without either Lopez or Portis on the floor.  They really miss Donte DeVincenzo in this series.

 
Harry Frogfish said:
I hope this isn't an NBA Finals where they give a Lifetime Achievement Award to Chris Paul.  I have been getting that feeling in the games leading up to this.
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That's exactly what it is.  It's only been one game, and I'm already sick of hearing the announcers fawning over this guy.

 
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I'm not going to blame the loss on it, but the disparity in FTA was troubling, to say the least.  Plenty of contact against the Bucks, too, and for whatever reason the referees refused to call it.  Maybe because our guys don't flail like little #####es every time they get touched, who knows.

Bud should've eaten a fine and gone off about the lack of calls in his postgame.  Maybe that would've helped even things out in G2.

 
My last point (for now) - They called it once on Booker, but he and CP3 could/should get called for kicking their leg out on virtually every single jump shot they take.  It's ridiculous.

 
trader jake said:
Give Paul all the credit in the world after a great game 1.  However, Booker and Crowder had better +/-'s in the game and Ayton just put up 22 and 19 on 8-10 shooting and 6-6 from the line.  DeAndre Ayton is the single most irreplaceable player on the Suns roster right now.  Without him the Bucks are big brother-ing the Suns all game long.

Overall, most Chris Paul "hater" talk you read on the board is a reaction to Paul being a Hall of Fame flopper and some would say jackass on the basketball court for two decades.  Listening to the constant leadership mantra about him can be grating.  The Suns went 8-0 in the bubble last season, added Jae Crowder from a Finals team, a new head coach that knows what he's doing, a new state of the art practice facility, has three young starters that were making drastic improvements before this season, and the team has a rabid fan base that leads to a good home court advantage...but it's mainly Chris Paul's leadership?  It can be a bit much sometimes.

Yeah, well, it's The Finals.  We're all upping our game to match the moment. 😄
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Yeah, the Suns also got rid of Kelly Oubre.  As a Warriors fan, it’s difficult to overstate how horrible Oubre is at playing winning basketball.

 
The announcers  are the driving force (and largely to blame for) the C3P fawning.

C3P deserves some flak for the flopping.

But for his 'coaching effect' thing and its value to the team, I don't put that on him.

 
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gruecd said:
Because the other option is their usual "drop" coverage, which doesn't work either because Phoenix is just too good in the midrange. 

At the end of the day, the problem is that the Bucks just don't have the personnel to play long stretches without either Lopez or Portis on the floor.  They really miss Donte DeVincenzo in this series.
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They could try straight up man, fight threw the screens old school style.  At least give it a shot because the switching with Lopez out there wasn't working.

You're right though this is a bad matchup for Lopez.  

 
gruecd said:
I'm not going to blame the loss on it, but the disparity in FTA was troubling, to say the least.  Plenty of contact against the Bucks, too, and for whatever reason the referees refused to call it.  Maybe because our guys don't flail like little #####es every time they get touched, who knows.

Bud should've eaten a fine and gone off about the lack of calls in his postgame.  Maybe that would've helped even things out in G2.
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Middleton had 26 shot attempts and 0 FT attempts...he wasn't taking just jumpers either.  Holiday 2 FT attempts.  The totals ended up being 26 FT attempts for PHX and 16 for MIL and the only reason it was that close was the Giannis hack fest at the end.  

 
gruecd said:
And Portis.  And like I said, they just don't have the depth to keep them both off the floor and go small the entire game.
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Portis is athletic enough though he kind of sort of can stay in front of Paul and Booker.  Lopez is put in the washer every time he ends up on one of them.  

 
Pipes said:
Actually don't feel horrible about last night.  
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I don't either.  I hoped for a win but expected a loss.  Honestly won't even feel too terrible if they lose again tomorrow.  Just need to win at home and steal one game in Phoenix.

 
Paul is a great player, first ballot hall of famer and a top 10 point guard all time.

That said the guy has had some major ##### moves over his career. Trying to break into the Clippers locker room after he was traded to the Rockets, basically kidnapping DeAndre Jordan, his post game comments to a female referee and his world class flopping. So the hate is warranted, but he is still very good at basketball. 

 
Pipes said:
Middleton had 26 shot attempts and 0 FT attempts...he wasn't taking just jumpers either.  Holiday 2 FT attempts.  The totals ended up being 26 FT attempts for PHX and 16 for MIL and the only reason it was that close was the Giannis hack fest at the end.  
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He attempted 6 shots inside 10 feet, only 2 were drives.  He got at least one call mid air where he inexplicably passed after the whistle when  chucking it at the rim would have gotten him to the stripe.

 
Navin Johnson said:
He attempted 6 shots inside 10 feet, only 2 were drives.  He got at least one call mid air where he inexplicably passed after the whistle when  chucking it at the rim would have gotten him to the stripe.
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Was that the one when he was near the basket?

So odd that he kicked it out to the corner instead of taking the shot.

Simmonsesque

 
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Navin Johnson said:
He attempted 6 shots inside 10 feet, only 2 were drives.  He got at least one call mid air where he inexplicably passed after the whistle when  chucking it at the rim would have gotten him to the stripe.
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Many of Booker's calls weren't on drives either.  I've said in other posts that's not why the Bucks lost the game but the foul discrepancy was there.  

 
identikit said:
Was that the one when he near the basket?

So odd that he kicked it out to the corner instead of taking the shot.

Simmonsesque
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The one that stuck out to me was in the second half he started right wing, drove over the top,  was getting down hill, and pulled up (another reason he didn't get to the line) just inside the foul line.  Defender stuck his hand in the cookie jar and got called and he kicked it to the left slot.  He even looked kinda disgusted at himself when he realized it cost him FT's.

 
Pipes said:
Many of Booker's calls weren't on drives either.  I've said in other posts that's not why the Bucks lost the game but the foul discrepancy was there.  
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So which Booker fouls shouldn't have been whistled and which Middleton no calls should have gotten him FT's?

 
Pipes said:
Many of Booker's calls weren't on drives either.  I've said in other posts that's not why the Bucks lost the game but the foul discrepancy was there.  
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The foul discrepancy comes from the Suns running better offense.  Setting screens, on and off ball, putting defenders in bad situations.  The Bucks pretty much play isolation basketball where help side can pick their spots.

 
Navin Johnson said:
So which Booker fouls shouldn't have been whistled and which Middleton no calls should have gotten him FT's?
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Since you asked Forbes 2nd foul on Booker was a complete joke.  Tucker's foul on Booker was questionable as well as Booker was stumbling before Tucker was on him.  Middleton was bumped on a few of his shots and I recall on one of his drives he ended up out of bounds on his back.  I guess Middleton needs to do a better job on selling those calls and you're right not sure why he dished off on that one that was called.  Oh and lets not forget the Chris Paul hack er steal on Holiday where he tomahawk chopped his wrists.

I get in the Suns were the aggressors and were at home they are going to get more calls...that's just how the NBA works.  Even Van Gundy made that observation in the 2nd half.  Regardless the Suns were the better team last night and deserved to win for a number of reasons.  The refs did not decide the game.  Congrats to the Suns on a well played game.  

 
Pipes said:
Middleton had 26 shot attempts and 0 FT attempts...he wasn't taking just jumpers either.  Holiday 2 FT attempts.  The totals ended up being 26 FT attempts for PHX and 16 for MIL and the only reason it was that close was the Giannis hack fest at the end.  
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4 of Khris Middleton's shots were within reach of the rim. 

 
mr. furley said:
his elbow is way out and i noticed when he shoots from the right side of the court he turns his body left, almost perpendicular to the basket.

when he shoots from the left side, he turns his body right, almost perpendicular to the basket.

maybe it was a camera angle trick but it looks so obviously tilted
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While it is important to be able to shoot from a variety of alignments, as you are often unable to control the space you are shooting in, most modern shooting coaches will teach a tilted stance as it allows the shooting line to coincide with the the eye line (think pistol shooting or darts).  I think his base a little wide but other than that his shot is fine.  He is a one-motion shooter out of the hop so the elbow will have to flare at some point as you bring the ball up from the dip thru the pocket.  I haven't watched it much, maybe the flare is extensive.  As long as the path of the ball stays on line though, it is really a non issue.

 
mr. furley said:
his elbow is way out and i noticed when he shoots from the right side of the court he turns his body left, almost perpendicular to the basket.

when he shoots from the left side, he turns his body right, almost perpendicular to the basket.

maybe it was a camera angle trick but it looks so obviously tilted
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And he's a lefty and lefties look weird shooting 3's anyway.  Not much arch either so I agree it's an ugly shot but it works for him and he's a heck of a player.

 
To be fair, all these dudes do now is flop. There was a play last night where one player barely touched the opposing player. The offensive player acted like he was shot with a shotgun and his arm grazed the defensive player, which of course the defensive player now acted as if a grenade just blew off his leg. 

Crowder is the worst. Hes a clumsy ogre who spends the entire game flopping and complaining. Hes never once committed a foul.

 
Pipes said:
Since you asked Forbes 2nd foul on Booker was a complete joke.  Tucker's foul on Booker was questionable as well as Booker was stumbling before Tucker was on him.  Middleton was bumped on a few of his shots and I recall on one of his drives he ended up out of bounds on his back.  
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I assume you are talking about this play?  Elbow contact will be called every time as it should. 

 
Navin Johnson said:
While it is important to be able to shoot from a variety of alignments, as you are often unable to control the space you are shooting in, most modern shooting coaches will teach a tilted stance as it allows the shooting line to coincide with the the eye line (think pistol shooting or darts).  I think his base a little wide but other than that his shot is fine.  He is a one-motion shooter out of the hop so the elbow will have to flare at some point as you bring the ball up from the dip thru the pocket.  I haven't watched it much, maybe the flare is extensive.  As long as the path of the ball stays on line though, it is really a non issue.
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i've never heard this about tilting to align eyes with the rim so i'll take your word for it

my guess was he had a geechie eye and needed to use the good one to see better

 
Navin Johnson said:
They seemed pretty comfortable going small, with Crowder at the five for short stretches. Not sure they can get away with it when Lopez and Giannis are both on the floor. 
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When he's out, Bucks need to make a concerted effort to go inside and use the size advantage...

...but Bud Lombardi will go small instead to match what Phoenix is doing.   :doh:

 
gruecd said:
When he's out, Bucks need to make a concerted effort to go inside and use the size advantage...

...but Bud Lombardi will go small instead to match what Phoenix is doing.   :doh:
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Also doesn't help that when Giannis does get the ball inside they're just wrapping him up, which is honestly what everyone should be doing, since he's unlikely to shoot better than 50% from the line.

 
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gruecd said:
When he's out, Bucks need to make a concerted effort to go inside and use the size advantage...

...but Bud Lombardi will go small instead to match what Phoenix is doing.   :doh:
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It would be a test of who can take advantage of the mismatch. While the Bucks would certainly have an advantage inside, they would have to hide Lopez somewhere on the defensive end. 

 
gruecd said:
When he's out, Bucks need to make a concerted effort to go inside and use the size advantage...

...but Bud Lombardi will go small instead to match what Phoenix is doing.   :doh:
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Bud McCarthy is more like it.  We'll see what adjustments he makes for game 2 but not going to hold my breath.  

 
gruecd said:
Also doesn't help that when Giannis does get the ball inside they're just wrapping him up, which is honestly what everyone should be doing, since he's unlikely to shoot better than 50% from the line.
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What they do a good job of is swiping at the ball with force.  If you get the ball clean 1 out of 5 times, you are in the positive from a points/possession standpoint.  No need to just intentionally foul, but there is no detriment to just playing very rough since he'll only average 1 point when he does go to the line.  Plus he can be susceptible to committing charges when the ref doesn't call a foul (happened once last night on Crowder where Crowder pushed him and then flopped when Giannis bounced back into him and got the charge call).

 
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