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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (1 Viewer)

MENS SPORTS - Greatest UFC fighter- all weight classes

I would have loved to have seen Stipe Miocic picked late. The current 2 time heavyweight champ earns the title of the World’s Baddest Man and is still in his prime. He’s a well rounded athlete with crushing punching power, and he’s beaten everyone worth beating in the UFC.

Anyway...

HERE. WE. GO. Lets make judging great again.

Tier 4 - Great fighters but not elite.

16. (1 Point) - Royce Gracie – Royce is without a doubt a legend and is credited with popularizing and showcasing the devastating effectiveness of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But how good was he really? It’s widely accepted that he was the weakest, smallest and least talented fighter in the Gracie family. His win-loss record in the early era of the UFC featured a list of submission wins over one-dimensional fighters that had no experience with BJJ. While most of his opponents were far larger than Gracie, their limited skills offset the impressiveness of him defeating bigger men. 

Royce hasn’t beaten any reputable mixed martial artist that wasn’t past their physical prime. His one matchup against a serious fighter in Matt Hughes ended with Royce getting smashed and finished in the first round. He’s a deserving UFC Hall of Famer as a pioneer of the sport, but his wins weren’t against serious competition and he’s not close to being an all time great.

15. (2 Points) Don Frye - When I think of Don Frye I think of his fight against Yoshihiro Takayama. If you haven’t seen it, it’s on youtube and it’s glorious. That slugfest really encapsulates just much of a tough ******* Frye was. His wrestling background prepared him well to handle the massive men he would face in MMA. Especially in some of the freakshow fights he found himself in the early days of openweight tournaments where he had to fight 3 times in one night. He had great success and made his name in the early years of the UFC and Pride but exited the Japanese promotion before facing the new generation of kickboxers, Brazilians and future legends like Fedor and Crocop.

14. (3 Points) Conor McGregor - McGregor was the first UFC fighter to hold simultaneous division titles. Conor sprinted into featherweight championship contention the second he arrived in the company; knocking out 4 out of his first 5 opponents. Conor followed that up by smashing Chad Mendez for the interim title then turning out Jose Aldo’s lights in 13 seconds. As good as he is in the cage, Conor truly excels in the mental warfare aspect of combat sports; there may be nobody better. His trash talk wasn’t only for self-promotion but he had ways of getting under the skin and into the head of opponents to gain a real advantage before ever stepping into the cage.

Conor had and probably still does have the best timing in the game when it comes to punching, slipping and counter-punching. His quickness and movement are essential to his elite stand-up striking game. McGregor’s weakness (relative to the championship level competition) is his ground game. His takedown defense is actually quite good but if one wants to stay at the top for any length of time, you better be world-class in every category. We will likely never see Conor fight at 145lbs ever again and the road to the 155lbs belt goes through Khabib. So unless he somehow makes a run at the welterweight title (a division that’s full of wrestlers and that he’s too small for), we may have already seen Conor at his peak. He hasn’t had a convincing enough body of work to be in the GOAT conversation.



13. (4 Points) Ken Shamrock - Do you remember ever playing a new fighting game as a kid, only knowing 2-3 moves, but you spammed those same moves so effectively that your friend or sibling rage quit? That was Ken Shamrock through a large portion of his MMA career. He’d punch you in the face a bit, knee you in the gut a bunch of times, make you fall down in pain, then he’d jump on top of you, grab a hold of an arm, a foot or neck and begin pulling, cranking and squeezing until you quit. And he did that time and time again against fighters that had no idea what the moves to the game were. But make no mistake about it, his techniques were sharp and his wins against the likes of Bas Rutten and Dan Severn prove that he wasn’t a one trick pony. In a 3 year stretch between 1993 and 1996, The World’s Most Dangerous Man fough 30 times. He was willing to fight anyone anywhere; a true pioneer and legend of the sport.

 
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MMA Tier 3 coming on Monday.
Just kidding. F that.
 

Making judging great again.

Tier 3 - This tier is super tight. Arguments could be made about the order, but points are points.

 

12. (5 Points) BJ Penn - BJ was one of my favorite fighters ever because he was fearless and a wizard, but OMG did he fall off a cliff towards the end. In his prime, the Hawaiian scrapper was virtually unbeatable at lightweight where he was a vicious killer. His jiu-jitsu and ground game were world class and his balance and takedown defense was legendary even against grappling specialists.

The knock on BJ was that he didn’t quite have the work focus and discipline to dominate the division like most though he should have. He was rarely lean and mean and would occasionally fight at 170lbs, and once even weighed in at 191lbs to fight Lyoto Machida, who was 225lbs. However, his willingness to fight the best in the world regardless of the weight class is why BJ Penn is one of the few 2 division champs in UFC history, and is what earned him a spot in the UFC Hall of Fame. All of his losses between 2002 and 2010 were against former or future champions.



11. (6 Points) Matt Hughes - Armed with an impressive collegiate wrestling background, Matt Hughes jump started his MMA career with a streak of wins via ground and pound and submissions. He would overwhelm opponents with his mid-western farmboy strength, rag-dolling guys with vicious slams then raining down punches from top position. His timing of takedowns, use of leverage and understanding of positioning made Hughes the greatest welterweight ground fighter of his era. In the rare occasions when he found himself in bottom position, he had the poise, experience and skill to reverse the position. Once on the ground, Hughes would mix in armbar and choke submissions as well. In fact, he’s tapped BJ Penn, Georges St. Pierre and Ricardo Almeida. His exciting slams and high finishing rate made him a fan favorite and a dominant champion.



10. (7 Points) Jose Aldo - Aldo was the featherweight king for seemingly forever; battering guys in the WEC and UFC with lightning quick punches and some of the deadliest kicks outside of heavyweight. Remember when he turned Uriah Faber’s left leg into mashed potatoes or when he threw a flying knee to KO Cub Swanson in 7 seconds? That was Aldo at his best. His ferocious kickboxing style paired with his defensive jiu-jitsu made him nearly unbeatable for about 10 years. He didn’t speak English and never bothered to learn, so Aldo wasn’t promoted as heavily as being one of the best, but the truth was that he was the king and had no rival. It wasn’t until he fought larger, lankier men like McGregor and Holloway that he found himself at a disadvantage.



9. (8 Points) Randy Couture - Couture was one of  the sport’s biggest stars during the formative years of MMA. He displayed  tremendous toughness and durability by fighting multiple times in one night in heavyweight tournaments. And his trilogy with Chuck Liddell drew the type of attention that made the UFC a household brand. Couture was the first to ever to be champion in 2 different divisions. He captured the light heavyweight and heavyweight championships multiple times, with several of those wins coming in his mid 40’s. Despite not starting the sport until he was almost 34, Couture’s wrestling background gave him the strength and durability to handle opponents much larger than him, earning him the nickname “The Natural”.

 

8. (9 Points) Chuck Liddell – It’s probably fair to consider Liddell the first superstar of MMA. He had ferocious punching power and saved his wrestling skills to defend takedowns, making him an apex knockout artist and a globally popular viewer-friendly fighter.

In the late 90’s and early 2000’s The Ice Man fought the best in the UFC and Pride and knocked out nearly every opponent. His aggressive style and swarming strike combinations made him the face of MMA and earned him a spot in the UFC Hall of Fame. His rivalries with legends Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture were captivating narratives and led to awesome fights. He had a granite chin and was glad to take punches to land his own; Chuck almost always won those exchanges.

 
NFL Running Backs

This was nowhere near as hard as pitchers. While all 16 are great names, this one is a little more predictable. While some names could be moved around a little, I would guess most of us would produce a top and bottom half similar to mine.  
A few surprises not drafted were Dorsett, Gore, Simpson, Edge James.  Any of those jump up the list?

 
MMA Tier 2 coming Tuesday.
That's no fun...

Here is the category in it's entirety. Why does formatting take me forever?

MENS SPORTS - Greatest UFC fighter- all weight classes

I would have loved to have seen Stipe Miocic picked late. The current 2 time heavyweight champ earns the title of the World’s Baddest Man and is still in his prime. He’s a well rounded athlete with crushing punching power, and he’s beaten everyone worth beating in the UFC.

Anyway...

HERE. WE. GO. Lets make judging great again.

Tier 4 - Great fighters but not elite.

16. (1 Point) - Royce Gracie – Royce is without a doubt a legend and is credited with popularizing and showcasing the devastating effectiveness of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. But how good was he really? It’s widely accepted that he was the weakest, smallest and least talented fighter in the Gracie family. His win-loss record in the early era of the UFC featured a list of submission wins over one-dimensional fighters that had no experience with BJJ. While most of his opponents were far larger than Gracie, their limited skills offset the impressiveness of him defeating bigger men. 

Royce hasn’t beaten any reputable mixed martial artist that wasn’t past their physical prime. His one matchup against a serious fighter in Matt Hughes ended with Royce getting smashed and finished in the first round. He’s a deserving UFC Hall of Famer as a pioneer of the sport, but his wins weren’t against serious competition and he’s not close to being an all time great.



15. (2 Points) Don Frye - When I think of Don Frye I think of his fight against Yoshihiro Takayama. If you haven’t seen it, it’s on youtube and it’s glorious. That slugfest really encapsulates just much of a tough ******* Frye was. His wrestling background prepared him well to handle the massive men he would face in MMA. Especially in some of the freakshow fights he found himself in the early days of openweight tournaments where he had to fight 3 times in one night. He had great success and made his name in the early years of the UFC and Pride but exited the Japanese promotion before facing the new generation of kickboxers, Brazilians and future legends like Fedor and Crocop.



14. (3 Points) Conor McGregor - McGregor was the first UFC fighter to hold simultaneous division titles. Conor sprinted into featherweight championship contention the second he arrived in the company; knocking out 4 out of his first 5 opponents. Conor followed that up by smashing Chad Mendez for the interim title then turning out Jose Aldo’s lights in 13 seconds. As good as he is in the cage, Conor truly excels in the mental warfare aspect of combat sports; there may be nobody better. His trash talk wasn’t only for self-promotion but he had ways of getting under the skin and into the head of opponents to gain a real advantage before ever stepping into the cage.

Conor had and probably still does have the best timing in the game when it comes to punching, slipping and counter-punching. His quickness and movement are essential to his elite stand-up striking game. McGregor’s weakness (relative to the championship level competition) is his ground game. His takedown defense is actually quite good but if one wants to stay at the top for any length of time, you better be world-class in every category. We will likely never see Conor fight at 145lbs ever again and the road to the 155lbs belt goes through Khabib. So unless he somehow makes a run at the welterweight title (a division that’s full of wrestlers and that he’s too small for), we may have already seen Conor at his peak. He hasn’t had a convincing enough body of work to be in the GOAT conversation.



13. (4 Points) Ken Shamrock - Do you remember ever playing a new fighting game as a kid, only knowing 2-3 moves, but you spammed those same moves so effectively that your friend or sibling rage quit? That was Ken Shamrock through a large portion of his MMA career. He’d punch you in the face a bit, knee you in the gut a bunch of times, make you fall down in pain, then he’d jump on top of you, grab a hold of an arm, a foot or neck and begin pulling, cranking and squeezing until you quit. And he did that time and time again against fighters that had no idea what the moves to the game were. But make no mistake about it, his techniques were sharp and his wins against the likes of Bas Rutten and Dan Severn prove that he wasn’t a one trick pony. In a 3 year stretch between 1993 and 1996, The World’s Most Dangerous Man fough 30 times. He was willing to fight anyone anywhere; a true pioneer and legend of the sport.

Tier 3 - This tier is super tight. Arguments could be made about the order, but points are points.
 

12. (5 Points) BJ Penn - BJ was one of my favorite fighters ever because he was fearless and a wizard, but OMG did he fall off a cliff towards the end. In his prime, the Hawaiian scrapper was virtually unbeatable at lightweight where he was a vicious killer. His jiu-jitsu and ground game were world class and his balance and takedown defense was legendary even against grappling specialists.

The knock on BJ was that he didn’t quite have the work focus and discipline to dominate the division like most though he should have. He was rarely lean and mean and would occasionally fight at 170lbs, and once even weighed in at 191lbs to fight Lyoto Machida, who was 225lbs. However, his willingness to fight the best in the world regardless of the weight class is why BJ Penn is one of the few 2 division champs in UFC history, and is what earned him a spot in the UFC Hall of Fame. All of his losses between 2002 and 2010 were against former or future champions.



11. (6 Points) Matt Hughes - Armed with an impressive collegiate wrestling background, Matt Hughes jump started his MMA career with a streak of wins via ground and pound and submissions. He would overwhelm opponents with his mid-western farmboy strength, rag-dolling guys with vicious slams then raining down punches from top position. His timing of takedowns, use of leverage and understanding of positioning made Hughes the greatest welterweight ground fighter of his era. In the rare occasions when he found himself in bottom position, he had the poise, experience and skill to reverse the position. Once on the ground, Hughes would mix in armbar and choke submissions as well. In fact, he’s tapped BJ Penn, Georges St. Pierre and Ricardo Almeida. His exciting slams and high finishing rate made him a fan favorite and a dominant champion.



10. (7 Points) Jose Aldo - Aldo was the featherweight king for seemingly forever; battering guys in the WEC and UFC with lightning quick punches and some of the deadliest kicks outside of heavyweight. Remember when he turned Uriah Faber’s left leg into mashed potatoes or when he threw a flying knee to KO Cub Swanson in 7 seconds? That was Aldo at his best. His ferocious kickboxing style paired with his defensive jiu-jitsu made him nearly unbeatable for about 10 years. He didn’t speak English and never bothered to learn, so Aldo wasn’t promoted as heavily as being one of the best, but the truth was that he was the king and had no rival. It wasn’t until he fought larger, lankier men like McGregor and Holloway that he found himself at a disadvantage.



9. (8 Points) Randy Couture - Couture was one of  the sport’s biggest stars during the formative years of MMA. He displayed  tremendous toughness and durability by fighting multiple times in one night in heavyweight tournaments. And his trilogy with Chuck Liddell drew the type of attention that made the UFC a household brand. Couture was the first to ever to be champion in 2 different divisions. He captured the light heavyweight and heavyweight championships multiple times, with several of those wins coming in his mid 40’s. Despite not starting the sport until he was almost 34, Couture’s wrestling background gave him the strength and durability to handle opponents much larger than him, earning him the nickname “The Natural”.



8. (9 Points) Chuck Liddell – It’s probably fair to consider Liddell the first superstar of MMA. He had ferocious punching power and saved his wrestling skills to defend takedowns, making him an apex knockout artist and a globally popular viewer-friendly fighter.

In the late 90’s and early 2000’s The Ice Man fought the best in the UFC and Pride and knocked out nearly every opponent. His aggressive style and swarming strike combinations made him the face of MMA and earned him a spot in the UFC Hall of Fame. His rivalries with legends Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture were captivating narratives and led to awesome fights. He had a granite chin and was glad to take punches to land his own; Chuck almost always won those exchanges.

Tier 2 - Among the best ever, but a few shortcomings on their resume.

7. (10 Points) Demetrious Johnson – DJ was the first ever UFC Flyweight Champion and he defended his title 11 times. His speed was rarely matched, his striking technique and accuracy was elite, and his wrestling was world class. He was essentially a flawless fighter for most of his career. Even though he didn’t have much KO power (but then, not many 125 pounders did) he used his superior grappling to ragdoll opponents and finish fights with an assortment of submissions. His suplex-to-flying armbar win over Ray Bog is something out of a videogame. 

Despite his dominating performances and win streaks, DJ was constantly criticized for not being a draw for the UFC. His loss to Henry Cejudo (future 2-division champ) was the first in 6 years. Johnson was traded by the UFC to ONE Championship for welterweight Ben Askren; the first and only such transaction of its kind between MMA companies. But since ONE is a promotion based in Singapore with little American exposure, DJ was pretty much forgotten despite three solid wins there.

DJ’s dominance and exciting performances pretty much cements him as the greatest flyweight ever. He could have played it safe in many fights by laying on top of his opponent to secure decision wins. But instead he always continued to attack and tried to either finish by knockout or submission.



6. (11 Points) Daniel Cormier – DC was the second fighter in UFC history to simultaneously hold two championship titles. His early career featured 11 straight wins in the heavyweight division. But after joining the UFC and winning his first 2 fights, Cormier dropped down to light-heavyweight to allow his teammate Cain Velazquez to shine in the heavyweight division.

His time as a light-heavyweight was almost as successful as at HW, beating younger, faster, more muscular opponents on his way to capturing the title. He used his high fight IQ and Olympic caliber wrestling and strength to dominate matchups and minimize taking damage. His only losses at LHW were against GOAT candidate Jon Jones, and his only loss at heavyweight is against current champion Stipe Miocic after already beating him once to take Stipe’s belt. DC was and still is an inspiration for chubby middle-aged fight fans around the world. Cormier is scheduled to fight Miocic for their tie-breaker on August 15th, if DC upsets Stipe again, I’d move him ahead of Fedor and up into Tier 1, but below Jones.



5. (12 Points) - Khabib Nurmagomedov -  I know I said I wasn’t going to cite a bunch of stats but I have to start with mentioning Khabib’s 28-0 record. His last 12 fights were in the UFC and is currently in the prime of his career. Lets set aside the fact (it’s not a folktale, there’s actual video) that he wrestled a bear as an 8 year-old as part of his training in Dagestan. The result of his training and freakish natural strength is that his grappling is otherworldly. Former two division UFC champion (light heavyweight and heavyweight) and elite wrestler Daniel Cormier frequently mentions how disproportionately strong Nurmagomedov is as a lightweight. 

Khabib isn’t big or muscular but his tremendous Sambo technique and immense grip strength means that he can physically impose his will on his opponents. Once he gets a hold of you, you’re not getting away. Some say that Khabib is a bit of a one-dimensional fighter, but he out-struck Conor McGregor and KO’d Thiago Tavares. However, it’s clear that his easiest path to victory is to drag his opponent to the ground and either dominate via ground and pound or strangle his victim with a choke of his choosing. He might be a one-trick-pony, but his one trick is from another planet.

By the time his career is over, Khabib might be the greatest fighter of all time. He’s on a collision course with extremely dangerous interim champ Justin Gaethje. But if he emerges victorious in that bout, I believe that time and health are his main obstacles. He’ll need to stay active, schedule around Ramadan to fight 2-3 times a year, remain healthy and consistently cut weight to 155lbs. If he can do those things he should be able to clean out the division and retire undefeated as the competition outside of the top 10 is fairly weak.



4. (13 Points) - Fedor Emilianenko – The Last Emperor has never fought in the UFC but there’s no doubt Fedor belongs among the top guys on the GOAT list. As a multiple time heavyweight champion in different fight promotions, he earned the title of Baddest Man On The Planet. Soft spoken, religious, doughy dad-bod, and modest are words used to describe Emelianenko, as are ferocious, terrifying, brutal and suffocating. 

Here was a pudgy, balding man that wore the same nerdy sweater and didn’t look the least bit athletic. But his Sambo and judo background combined with slick technique and ridiculous Russian strength proved to be extremely effective. His unimposing stature would surprise opponents and fans alike with a blitz of strikes at terrifying speed. His career in M-1 Global and PRIDE is full of highlights of him setting up muscle bound opponents with leg kicks then pouncing with crushing punches and showing his killer instinct with soccer kicks to the head.

Fedor’s judo-based clinch game allowed him to sling big men down. And once down, his Sambo ground game was overwhelming. He might posture over an opponent and follow with stomps, kicks and punches or he could use his full toolbox of submission to tap the competition. Even when he found himself defending off his back, Fedor’s poise and skills meant he could either reverse the position or submit with armbars from the bottom.

Fedor was at his best during the early years of MMA when rounds were longer, more dangerous techniques were legal and PEDs were not tested for (at least not seriously). He showed a granite chin and endurance against the biggest, strongest, and roided-uppest heavyweights in the world. He fought twice in one day on 2 occasions for tournaments, something that would never be allowed to happen today.

Going undefeated for 9 years and having an extensive highlight reel warrants being included in GOAT conversations. But he’s in Tier 2 for me because he fought in an era where competition isn’t as good as it is now and his record is full of wins over nobodies during his career in Japan. He had a chance to fight Brock Lesnar in the UFC but his Russian managers couldn’t come to an agreement with Dana White so we never got to see him go head to head with the best in what many consider the world’s top promotion.

Tier 1 - The top of GOAT discussion

3. (14 Points) - Jon Jones – Jon “Bones'' Jones is often regarded as being the most gifted fighter in history. But so far, he might also be the most personally flawed great fighter in history. Jones stands 6’4” and has a ridiculous 84.25” (>7 foot) reach; a frame that could be successful in the heavyweight division. But his skinny legs allow him to squeeze in at light heavyweight (205lbs) and dominate. He has great athletic genes (he has 2 brothers, both of whom played productive years in the NFL) and benefited from a brilliant training/coaching team of Greg Jackson and Mike WInkeljohn.

Jones uses his length with perfect efficiency. His left jab not only kept opponents at a distance, but they stung and set up his powerful right hand and dynamic kicks. He utilizes every kick in the game, including a devastating oblique kick that’s designed to destroy an opponent’s knee and ligaments. And if his opponent closed the distance, Jones’ height made his knees to both head and body especially brutal. He would throw clubbing slashing elbows from all sorts of angles including spinning back elbows that dropped some of the toughest men in the sport.

His takedowns were outstanding also, he routinely slammed weaker grapplers, dragged down top submission artists and put Olympic wrestlers on their back. Once Jones gets on top of someone, he could spam more elbows and punches until either the ref stopped the fight or the guy’s head would turn into a puddle of jello. If he felt merciful, he would squeeze the life out of his opponents. Half of his submission victories came over former world champions.

Jones was the youngest champion in UFC history at the age of 23, and to this day remains undefeated. His record shows a single loss, but that was due to a disqualification due to illegal elbows. As everyone knows, this is a BS rule and Matt Hamill was half dead on his back in the first round, blocking elbows with his face.

Recently, Jones has had some tough matchups and hasn’t been quite as dominant. But he has really been his worst enemy during his physical prime. Between the recreational drug use, horrific driving record, and testing positive for PEDs, Jones spent far too much time suspended from the UFC. He should have 10 more wins under his belt and maybe a bunch of super-fights against heavyweights. If he could have somehow kept his head on straight, he would hands down be the GOAT and it wouldn’t be close. The good news is he still has some prime years ahead of him and he still has the gifts to be #1 all time.



2. (15 Points) - Anderson Silva – Anderson “The Spider” Silva was a walking highlight film. When watching him fight, you couldn’t blink because he could strike with some insane move to end the contest. Silva had elite muay thai and Brazilian Jiu jitsu, plus he would flow seamlessly between southpaw and orthodox stances making him dangerous on the feet, in the clinch, and on the ground. His movement was unorthodox, so it was an extremely difficult style to emulate and prepare for. It would be easier to just link a video to his crazy knockouts and submissions.

But as impressive as his offense was, his defense was equally brilliant. His head movement was as slick as a pro boxer’s and routinely made opponents look silly as they swung at missed while Silva bobbed and weaved with his hands down below his waist. He would often back himself against the cage and drop his defense to goad, taunt and frustrate his opponents while he deftly evaded incoming strikes. As a known counter-striker, Silva used this tactic to draw out attacks from other fighters. And when opponents (I’m talking about Chael Sonnen) thought the key to beating Anderson was to close the distance and wrestle him for 25 minutes, The Spider threw his legs around Sonnen’s head and arms for a 5th round submission.

Silva was so dominant at 185lbs, sporting a 17 fight win streak and a title reign spanning 10/14/206 – 7/6/2013, that he moved up to 205lbs to test his skills on 3 occasions. In short, he embarrassed all 3 light heavyweight opponents with KO/TKO’s inside 5 minutes. It takes an all time great to make world class fighters look like drunk bumbling children. And I also want to note that while his record shows a decision loss to Michael Bisping in 2016, Silva won that fight in a lot of people’s eyes. Silva turned Bisping’s lights off with a sick flying knee at the end of the third round, but the referee didn’t stop the fight. Had Herb Dean called the fight after Bisping got knocked unconscious, Silva would have another highlight KO win under his belt.

So why is Silva #2 instead of #1? There were times when he appeared to be vulnerable to grapplers and submission specialists, particularly early in his Pride career while St. Pierre was essentially Superman throughout. His back-to back losses to Chris Weidman began a sudden drop-off in ability and he was busted for PED’s in 2015. But at his peak, The Spider was an overpowered video game final boss with a cheat code.



1. (16 Points) - Georges St.Pierre – Newly minted UFC Hall of Fame inductee, GSP had virtually no weaknesses. His striking was efficient and technical without having overwhelming punching power. He could jab the crap out of an opponent and leave their face looking like ground beef. He was so effective with his stinging jabs that a ton of other fighters began incorporating this simple punch into their gameplans. His training in kyokushin karate also allowed him to kick with the best in the 170lbs division. 

GSP’s wrestling and grappling was also world class despite, as a French Canadian, having no amateur wrestling background. The timing of his takedowns, both single-leg and double-leg, were extremely precise. He could scoop out an opponent’s legs in the middle of the octagon or against the fence. And once on top, he often stayed in top position. He could finish the fight with punches, knees, elbow strikes or submissions. He was as likely to rip an opponent’s arm off as he was strangling them with a rear-naked choke.

GSP won the 170lbs UFC welterweight title for the first time in 2006 by beating Hall of Famer, Matt Hughes. Then won it a second time in 2007. During his second title reign, he had a stretch of 7 wins by judges’ decision, which caused some viewers to accuse him of utilizing boring and safe lay-and-pray tactics. During this period, performance enhancing drugs were believed to be widely used in MMA. GSP was a vocal critic of PEDs and was frustrated with the advantages he suspected some opponents were giving themselves. He vacated his title and left the sport in 2013 with a 12 fight win streak. His title loss to Matt Serra was likely due to a mental lapse from family health issues, and he avenged that loss in dominating fashion.

After a 4 year hiatus, GSP returned to the UFC in 2017 to challenge Michael Bisping for the 185lbs championship. St. Pierre pretty much kicked the crap out of Bisping before choking out the champ to win the middleweight title. There has been no talk of him making a comeback, so St. Pierre walks away a 2-division champion, a squeaky clean reputation, “healthy and wealthy”. The guy was built like an action figure and had the flexibility and athleticism with all the tools to make him an elite fighter. Add in the training and coaching from Firas Zahabi at TriStar gym, St. Pierre was armed with all the physical and mental weapons to be considered among the greatest mixed martial artists of all time.

 
thought i'd already seen the stoopitest possible athlete rankings........hmm.........gotta say - i love the the young people. such energy & capacity!

 
Standings After EYLive Ranked MMA Fighters - 

60% of CATS have been judged.


 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --Gally--350--3--1--2=6

2 --tuffnutt--337--3--1--5=9

3 --AAABatteries--336--3--2--4=9

4 --Ilov80s--336--2--4--1=7

5 --DougB--333--5--2--1=8

6 --Getzlaf15--315--1--4--2=7

7 --Zow--310--3--2--4=9 (bronze)

8 --otb_lifer--308--0--2--2=4

9 --jwb--305--2--4--2=8

10 -joffer--302--3--3--1=7

11 -timschochet--301--2--2--3=7 (gold)

12 -Long Ball Larry--293--2--2--3=7

13 -Jagov--275--2--4--0=6 (silver)

14 -higgins--274--1--1--2=4

15 -wikkidpissah--265--1--0--4=5

16 -Kal El--255--3--2--0=5

 
A few surprises not drafted were Dorsett, Gore, Simpson, Edge James.  Any of those jump up the list?
Yes, there were a few guys I was surprised weren't drafted.

Off the top of my head, most of those guys could challenge the dickerson/peterson/martin tier. 

 
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Hello everyone, I am judging in reponse to @Getzlaf15 and this is the MEN'S SPORTS - Greatest Soccer Goalie category. Hopefully the distance between final points give an indication of relative greatness.

The scoring is as follows: INTERNATIONAL CAPS 0.01 * international caps * an arbitrary modifier between 1-5 I gave based on his national team's ELO for the era/decade in which he played + INTERNATIONAL COMPETITIONS 5 * World Cup wins + 2 * World Cup runner up + 0.8 * World Cup team selections + 2.5 * other international competition wins (UEFA Euros in all cases except Tim Howard because winning the Gold Cup doesn't mean anything sorry not sorry) + DOMESTIC LEAGUES 0.008 * games played in domestic leagues that were top 10 in UEFA coefficient at the time + 1.2 * domestic league titles + 0.3 * domestic cup titles + CONTINENTAL CUPS 1.8 * Champions League/European Cup titles + 0.9 * Europa League/UEFA Cup titles + AWARDS 16 * Ballon d'Or winner + 8 * Ballon d'Or 2nd place + 4 * Ballon d'Or 3rd place + 2.4 * IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper (WBG) + 1.2 * IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper runner up + 1.8 * IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper of the 20th Century ranking + 0.1 * this 90min article ranking out of 25 + 0.1 * this BR article ranking out of 25 . (rounding may mean numbers are not exact) Done! Now for the actual rankings.

16) TIM HOWARD  (1 point)  INTL CAPS 2.42 + INTL COMPS 2.4 + DOMESTIC 3.78 + CONT CUPS 0 + AWARDS 0 = 8.6

Last on this list by a bit but not in any American's heart. Unfortunately his best season was with Manchester United in 2003-04 but was overshadowed by Arsenal's invincibles. Won nothing on any team worth talking about but what about this goal?

15) NEVILLE SOUTHALL  (2 points)  INTL CAPS 1.84 + INTL COMPS 0 + DOMESTIC 7.63 + CONT CUPS 0 + AWARDS 3 = 12.47

Lets get down similarly to Howard in that his birthplace didn't help him, Wales was hovering in the 20s in national ranking in the 1980s. The only goalkeeper on this list to never go to a world cup, or any international competition for that matter. He won 2 titles with Everton in the 70s in an admittedly strong English top tier but couldn't do enough internationally or in continental club competitions to justify being ranked higher, and I don't have a goal from his own box from this Everton keeper anyways.

14) PAT JENNINGS  (3 points)  INTL CAPS 1.79 + INTL COMPS 1.6 + DOMESTIC 6.87 + CONT CUPS 0.9 + AWARDS 2.2 = 13.36

Wow this guy has absolutely nothing redeemable about himself other than winning the UEFA Cup in 1972 with Tottenham (they've only won one European trophy since he left) and being second on this list in games played in top 10 leagues at 709. Played 2 world cups at 36 and 40 with Northern Ireland and at 75 years old now he's still probably more fit than me.

13) DAVID SEAMAN  (4 points)  INTL CAPS 2.7 + INTL COMPS 1.6 + DOMESTIC 9.96 +  CONT CUPS 0 + AWARDS 2.2 =  16.45

Too bad his England team wasn't anything better than average, and he gets punished for being on a historically lower ranked national team than normal. Was on 3 Premier League winning Arsenal teams under Arsene Wenger (not the invincibles) and was penalties away from winning a UEFA Cup in 2000, but in typical Arsenal fashion couldn't win anything in Europe. An IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper runner up in 1996 but what about this goal?

12) PETR CECH  (5 points)  INTL CAPS 3.1 + INTL COMPS 0.8 + DOMESTIC 11.3 + CONT CUPS 2.7 + AWARDS 7.3 = 25.2

We are entering the territory of not completely obscure British goalies from the 20th century with a Chelsea legend in Petr Cech. Often known for his trademark headguard he wears as a result from a 2006 skull fracture that required emergency surgery, the Czech national won 4 Premier League titles with Chelsea and a Champions League in 2012 and a Europa League the next season in 2013. He owns the Premier League all time record for shutouts and won the WBG in 2005 along with 2 runner up finishes. Did you know he also plays ice hockey goalie for British 4th tier team Guildford Phoenix? He earned man on the match on his debut as a 38 year old but you're not reading this for the Greatest Hockey Goalie category, are you?

11) PETER SHILTON  (6 points)  INTL CAPS 5 + INTL COMPS 2.4 + DOMESTIC 8.28 + CONT CUPS 3.6 + AWARDS 8.6 = 27.88

848 top flight games tops this list by far. From 1967 to 1991 he played 843 games just in the English first division for 5 different teams. He is a big part of probably the only reason why you may have ever even heard of Nottingham Forest. They won back to back European Cups in 1979 and 1980 (both by a score in the final of 1-0) and the first division in 1978. Sent to the World Cup 3 times and played 17 games over those 3 tournaments, he is arguably England's best ever goalkeeper.

part 2 soon

 
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Greatest NHL Goalie Rankings - 


So I came up with the usual ten or so categories, and did the point thingy, but this time I'm not listing the points.  There are a few players that wound up not where you think they would be and I feel those have been justified.  The different eras where the schedule was much less, or the scoring was very low or high, wreaked havoc on the point systems. Saves were not even counted until the 1955/56 season.   So I had to move a few players up or down a few spots that I felt were necessary.  I did look at how many times a goalie finished in the Top 3 for a season in Save PCT and Goals Against Average (GAA). Awarded 5 for 1st, 3 for 3nd, and 1 for a 3rd to get a career score for that player. It was a decent way to compare the different eras.

Missing?   MA Fluery


1 PT - Clint Benedict.      Had 60 less career wins than anyone on the list. Hocref.com has a "Point Shares" ranking for careers and season.  He had the lowest career ranking. Played in only 8 playoffs in 13 years. Lowest % on the list.   Didn't win any awards and finished 3rd in Hart (MVP) one year.


2 PTS - Grant Fuhr.   He won 4 Cups with the Oil.  But only one Vezina. In 19 years, his highest season ranking for Save % was one ranking of 3rd.  Not very stellar. Hocref.com has another cool stat, Goals Saved Above Average (GSAA).  It's the goals this goalie prevented given his save percentage and shots faced vs the league average save percentage on the same number of shots.  Fuhr had a negative career score for this. I ranked him about Clint because he had the one Vezina and Clint did not.  Also only had one NHL 1st and one NHL 2nd team.


3 PTS - Frank Brimsek.    In 10 years, Franks had 2 1st team NHL and 6 2nd Team awards.  Won 2 Cups and 2 Vezinas.   Didn't have many Top 3 Save or GAA seasons. 



4 PTS - Johnny Bower.     In 15 years, won 4 Cups and 2 Vezinas.   Had six seasons first in Save % and three in GAA.  Low career wins and Shutouts kept him down here.



5 PTS - Vladislav Tretiak.   This is where I am slotting him and I think that's kind. Players right after this have won 4 Cups, 6 Vezinas, and 2 Conn Smythe's. Just can't say he'd be better then them.  He retired at the age of 32. Many goalies see their best years from 30-40.


6 PTS - Turk Broda.    Played 14 years.  Won 5 Cups, but won of them was on a team under .500.  Dinged him for that.  Only two 1st and one 2nd NHL Teams.  2 Vezinas.


7 PTS - Bill Durnan.    Interesting that he played just 7 years. He was NHL 1st Team six of those years.  He won 2 Cups and 6 Vezinas.  Was 1st in GAA six seasons also.


8 PTS -  Bernie Parent.   Played 14 years and won 2 Cups and one of only four on the list to win a Conn Smythe (playoff MVP) and he did it twice.  HIs increase in AS games, wins, SO's, were enough to barley pass Durnan.


9 PTS - Tony Esposito.    Played 16 years, with three 1st and two 2nd NHL teams.  Didn't win a Cup, but 4th highest wins on the list.   Wom 3 Vezina's. His Career GSAA was 1st all time and he had 13 Top 10 GSAA seasons.


10 PTS -  Glenn Hall.   Tier jump here IMO.   Played 18 years with seven 1st and four 2nd NHL Team's.  Won one Cup and three Vezina.  Played in a list high 11 AS games and won one Conn Smythe.  His 84 SO's were 3rd on the list.


11 PTS - Terry Sawchuk.    Played 21 years.  Won 4 Cups, with three 1st and four 2nd NHL Team's.   Won four Vezina's.  Third on win career list with 445.  103 SO's were 3nd on the list.   Had a very low amount of Top 3 seasons in Save %.  And that cost him the next slot.



12 PTS - Ken Dryden.   Ken played eight years and won six Cups.  That's insane.   He won Conn Smythe (playoff MVP) in his rookie season after only playing six games in the regular season.  That's insane.   He had five 1st and one 2nd NHL team.  He won 5 Vezina's.  He has solid career Top 3 Save% and GAA despite playing just the eight years.  


13 PTS - Martin Brodeur.      Not where I thought he would land before this started.  Before delving into this, I didn't recall him being ranked very high in CATS while he played. A little shocked that the research proved that to be true.  He was great, but he might have benefited from the strength of the defensive corps in front of him more than any other goalie on the list.  He only won three cups and didn't win a CS.  Here are his best SAVE PCT's:
 

Save Percentage

1993-94 NHL .915 (4th)

1995-96 NHL .912 (7th)

1996-97 NHL .927 (3rd)

1997-98 NHL .917 (5th)

2006-07 NHL .922 (3rd)

2007-08 NHL .920 (8th)

He played 22 years and was only in the Top 10 six times?  Only two thirds?   Two points for Save Pct Top 3?

 

Goals Against Average. (Top 10's)

1993-94 NHL 2.40 (2nd)

1994-95 NHL 2.44 (10th)

1995-96 NHL 2.34 (5th)

1996-97 NHL 1.88 (1st)

1997-98 NHL 1.89 (2nd)

1999-00 NHL 2.24 (8th)

2001-02 NHL 2.15 (6th)

2002-03 NHL 2.02 (4th)

2003-04 NHL 2.03 (4th)

2005-06 NHL 2.57 (9th)

2006-07 NHL 2.18 (3rd)

2007-08 NHL 2.17 (5th)

2008-09 NHL 2.42 (10th)

2009-10 NHL 2.24 (3rd)

His 13 GAA Top 3 pts    (1-1st x 5, 2-2nd x 3, 2-3rd x 1) tied for second lowest on the list.

His combined SV% and GAA Top 3 pts of 15, just blow me away at how low they are.  Players ranked #1-3, had 51-74 points combined.

Even with adding extra weight to all time WINS and SO's (He's #1) and eliminating the SV% Top 3 CAT, he still was 4th on my points list. One Net list ranked him 6th.

Brodeur's career GSAA was 8th on the list and barely ahead of a few guys much lower ranked.







14 PTS -  Jaques Plante.    Played 19 years and had the same three 1st and four 2nd NHL Team's as Brodeur. Won 6 Cups and 7 Vezina.  And one HART (sesaon MVP).  Plante changed the game as he was the first to wear a mask....  (11 days after I was born)

 November 1, 1959: perhaps the most fateful night in goaltending history. Most hockey fans know the story, but it bears repeating: struck in the face by an Andy Bathgate slapshot, Plante told Canadiens head coach Toe Blake that he refused to go back out on the ice without his rudimentary fiberglass mask on. Blake relented, as there was no backup goaltender on hand, and the rest is history.

He was listed 2nd and 4th on the Net lists.


15 PTS -  Patrick Roy.     Played 19 years and won 4 Cups.  He won THREE Conn Smythe trophies for Playoff MVP.  No one else in the history of the game at any position has done that.  His 551 Wins in 2nd.   His GSAA career is 1st on this list and 2nd all-time at 461. Broduer was 207.  had had a list high 16 Top 3 GAA seasons. Broduer had 8. 

Like Plante, he changed the game.   

This Net list had him #1 (Hockeywriters.com) and said:
 

Roy’s trophy case is stocked with four Stanley Cups, three Conn Smythe trophies, and three Vezina trophies. That makes him the only goaltender on this list to have any Conn Smythe trophies (awarded to the MVP of the playoffs), let alone three. He essentially shaped the course of modern goaltending by being the first goaltender to popularize the butterfly style, and even changed the very equipment that goaltenders wore thanks to his close relationship with coach Francois Allaire and the Lefebvre brothers.

Roy’s brand of goaltending, paired with the new equipment, led to a huge influx in goaltenders from the province of Quebec. Athletes in the province who once idolized goal-scoring greats such as Maurice Richard and Guy Lafleur now wanted to be goaltenders, something that was unheard of at the time. The quality of goaltending improved around the league, which played a large role in a steady decrease in scoring. No goaltender has the combination of sheer dominance, team success, and influence on the sport that Roy had, which makes him the greatest goaltender of all time.

16 PTS - Dominik Hasek.    Played 16 years,  Won two Cups and played for many years on very bad teams. He won six Vezina's, 2nd highest on the list.   He won two HART trophies for Season MVP. No one else did that on the list.   He was 1st and 2nd on the Net lists.

He also changed the game.  From the site that had him 2nd:

At a young age, doctors observed that Hasek possessed above-average flexibility, a characteristic that would go on to define much of his career. Although he became known for his extraordinary saves that contorted his body in unimaginable ways, what made Hasek great was his freakish grasp for the fundamentals of the position, his razor-like concentration, and his refusal to give up on any given play.

Fun fact: Hasek is the only goaltender to ever face the most shots per sixty minutes while also leading the league in save percentage. If that isn’t impressive enough already, he actually did it twice. Then there are the accolades: six Vezina trophies, two consecutive Hart trophies, two Stanley Cups, and an improbable gold medal at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. The Sabres’ teams that Hasek played on in the 1990’s weren’t exactly defensive juggernauts, yet he came painstakingly close to carrying them all the way to the promised land. To boot, Hasek helped pave the way for other European goaltenders, forcing NHL teams to put more effort into finding talent in Europe.

11 Top 10 Save % Seasons

Save Percentage

1992-93 NHL .896 (7th)

1993-94 NHL .930 (1st)

1994-95 NHL .930 (1st)

1995-96 NHL .920 (1st)

1996-97 NHL .930 (1st)

1997-98 NHL .932 (1st)

1998-99 NHL .937 (1st)

1999-00 NHL .919 (3rd)

2000-01 NHL .921 (5th)

2001-02 NHL .915 (9th)

2005-06 NHL .925 (2nd)

Career NHL .922 (1st)

 
Standings after GEtzlaf15 ranked NHL Goalies - 

 

1 --Gally--355--3--1--2=6

4 --Ilov80s--342--2--4--1=7

2 --tuffnutt--341--3--1--5=9

5 --DougB--340--5--2--1=8

3 --AAABatteries--339--3--2--4=9

6 --Getzlaf15--330--1--5--2=8 (silver)

7 --Zow--324--3--2--5=10 (bronze)

8 --otb_lifer--319--0--2--2=4

9 --jwb--318--2--4--2=8

10 -joffer--310--3--3--1=7

11 -timschochet--302--2--2--3=7

12 -Long Ball Larry--302--2--2--3=7

13 -Jagov--285--2--4--0=6

15 -wikkidpissah--277--1--0--4=5

14 -higgins--276--1--1--2=4

16 -Kal El--271--4--2--0=6 (gold)

 
Standings after GEtzlaf15 ranked NHL Goalies - 

 

1 --Gally--355--3--1--2=6

4 --Ilov80s--342--2--4--1=7

2 --tuffnutt--341--3--1--5=9

5 --DougB--340--5--2--1=8

3 --AAABatteries--339--3--2--4=9

6 --Getzlaf15--330--1--5--2=8 (silver)

7 --Zow--324--3--2--5=10 (bronze)

8 --otb_lifer--319--0--2--2=4

9 --jwb--318--2--4--2=8

10 -joffer--310--3--3--1=7

11 -timschochet--302--2--2--3=7

12 -Long Ball Larry--302--2--2--3=7

13 -Jagov--285--2--4--0=6

15 -wikkidpissah--277--1--0--4=5

14 -higgins--276--1--1--2=4

16 -Kal El--271--4--2--0=6 (gold)
Survived the error of trying to be too clever with the Tretiak pick.  Should have gone with Plant or Dryden.  Not sure why I went with Tretiak so early.  Fair placement in the rankings.

 
Survived the error of trying to be too clever with the Tretiak pick.  Should have gone with Plant or Dryden.  Not sure why I went with Tretiak so early.  Fair placement in the rankings.
You lucked out and the top 5 scored between 3 and 7 points.    We need some more of that!!!!  :D

 
A few surprises not drafted were Dorsett, Gore, Simpson, Edge James.  Any of those jump up the list?
Dorsett and OJ were gone in other categories. I was last to go and considered edge and gore. Bettis did it longer than edge and I thought he did it better than gore. Don’t blame the 16 ranking and would have expected both edge and gore to also be 16. 

 
Some interesting stats from the first half of the judging:

Golds:

  • The only other 1st place selection was David Thompson for best NCAA Basketball player.  He was selected 9th in his category.
This was driving me nuts during the draft. Players were going off the board and none of them were Thompson. I hadn't offered up to be a judge yet at the time he was chosen, I don't think, but I had a scathing post forming in my mind if he had been left unchosen.

I guess he's been kind of forgotten, since his pro career was cut short due to injury and dope (though he did score 73 points in an NBA game and earned the name "Skywalker") and he played before ESPN was a thing. 

If Alcindor had been chosen in this category, Thompson still would have been my #1. I've never seen a player like him.

 
Dorsett and OJ were gone in other categories. I was last to go and considered edge and gore. Bettis did it longer than edge and I thought he did it better than gore. Don’t blame the 16 ranking and would have expected both edge and gore to also be 16. 
Just off the top of my head, both would have slotted right around Marcus Allen. Edge a bit over Gore - Gore has that Harris-like "good but not great" production. Edge's peak was pretty darn good. 

Bettis and Riggins both had sub 4.0 YPC for their career - they have to be at the bottom. Edge didn't have the greatest career YPC either (but he did hit that magic 4.0).

 
Larry Csonka would have also been a decent last pick that would have probably stayed off the bottom. His overall numbers do not really pop, but that's because he was in a true timeshare. His YPC from 70-73 was exceptional, on roughly 200 carries per year. 

Tiki Barber too. We forget about him a little, but he was really good. 

 
Pointless preamble

Interesting story I ran across I want to share.

Dorando Pietri, Marathon, Italy

Here is one of the great stories in Olympic history. Pietri was a pastry chef in Italy. He was a small man, barely 5-foot-3, but he loved to run. At the 1906 Intercalated Games in Athens, he was leading the marathon by at least five minutes when he got sick and had to stop.

Two years later, at the 1908 Olympics in London, he again surged into the lead but with just over a mile to go he began to feel sick again. He ran into the stadium for the last 400 meters, and he did not even know where he was. 

He came in the wrong way and had to be redirected by officials. He then fell down. He got up ran a little longer and fell down again. And again. And again. And again. Five times in all, Pietri fell, though his lead was so big that nobody else entered the stadium.

The umpires helped him up after he fell. It was written that several people basically pushed him over the finish line. Pietri crossed that line first and the crowd went crazy for him. And then, in came American Johnny Hayes. 

The Americans were particularly despised in Great Britain in 1908 because they had complained loudly after the British did not have an American flag for the Opening Ceremonies (officials said they couldn’t find one - those were different times). So, basically, NOBDOY wanted Hayes to win.

But after Hayes crossed the line, there was an immediate protest put up — umpires and fans are not allowed to help a marathon runner. There was much confusion (apparently, in the madness, someone lodged a complaint against Hayes because it was reported he too had received some help). 

When it finally cleared, Pietri was disqualified and Hayes was awarded the gold medal .

Pietri received a silver cup from the Queen of England for his efforts, though, and he was a beloved Italian hero.

____________________

Athletes who could have been drafted:

Abebe Bikila - Ethiopian pioneer, back to back Olympic Marathons in Tokyo & Mexico City. He won the first one running barefoot. Tragic figure. The inspiration for all sub-Sahara runners who came after him.

Lasse Virén - 4 Olympic Golds in 5K & 10K, Munich & Montreal. Thought he might be a Top Ten? IDK

Ville Ritola - Finnish runner who won eight Olympic medals (5 gold) in the 1920s.

Emil Zátopek - 3 LD running golds at Helsinki, 4 G 1 S overall. Probably would have been top 6 of 8ish.

Pa’lante

Tier 3 

Who are those guys?

16. (1 point) Pheidippides

Could not find any record of him at http://www.olympedia.org/

The central figure in the story that inspired a modern sporting event, the marathon race.  Pheidippides is said to have run from Marathon to Athens to deliver news of the victory of the battle of Marathon.

That would make him a bad ### mothershucker if true, but the story is likely a romantic invention. It’s not found in the recorded history of the day. 

Had you chosen a real life romantic figure - say Eric Lydell, the 100/200M sprinter who refused to run on Sundays, entered and won the 400M in WR time at the 1924 Olympics...aw well...cool story bro, wrong draft.

15. (2 points) D i c k Fosberry

Guy was a flop, surprised he was even drafted. I kid, I kid. But Dwight Stones might have been a better choice if you wanted a US high jumper. Not much value in the pioneer.

Invented a whole new way to high jump - now known as the Fosbury Flop - and won Olympic Gold at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City.

Richard Fosbury will be remembered more for the high jump style he perfected than for his gold medal. With his “Fosbury Flop”, he completely revolutionized the event. Though now often called simply the Flop, many Eastern European jumpers call this style of jumping the Fosbury. While attending Oregon State he won the NCAA in 1968 and after his Olympic victory he won the title again in 1969. 

This was his only major post-Olympic victory and Fosbury turned professional in 1973, with limited success. Fosbury later became a civil engineer near Sun Valley, Idaho working with Galena Engineering. He also became quite good at swing dancing and would later marry his swing dancing instructor.

Easy placement, the accomplishments were limited, but his place in history is secure.

14. (3 points) Jonathan Edwards

60’ (18.29m) has been the Triple Jump record for 25 years. Although he had been a world class athlete for many years, his undefeated 1995 was magical. Upset at the Olympics the next year, came back to win gold at his 4th & final Olympiad. Ubiquitous commentator on BBC and Eurosport. 

Olympics: 1996 Atlanta silver, 2000 Sydney gold

Worlds: 1993 Stuttgart bronze, 1995 Gothenburg gold, 1997 Athens silver, 1999 Sevilla bronze, 2001 Edmonton gold

Commonwealth Games: 1990 Auckland silver, 1994 Victoria silver, 2002 Manchester gold

World Indoor: 2001 Lisboa silver

European Indoor: 1998 Valencia gold

13. (4 points) Javier Sotomaye 

Cuban high jumper who dominated the 1990s. Current WR holder 2.45 M (8’-15/32”) set in 1993 - the only man to ever clear 8’. 

2-year drug ban for cocaine in 1999 but it was reduced by half on appeal, allowing him to compete in Sydney at age 32. Testing positive for steroids at the 2001 Worlds which precipitated his retirement. Maintained innocence, he was setup, improper handling of his sampling, et al. Y’all know the script.

When he retired he held 17 of the 20 best all time jumps. Only 13 men in history have jumped 2.40 meters or higher, and only 5 have done it more than once. Sotomayor did it 24 times (in 21 different competitions between September 1988 – March 1995).

#1 high jumper 1988, 89, 1992, 93, 94, 95, 97 and 1998 (8 of 10 years.) Next highest is 5 years, consecutive. For his career Sotomayor accumulated 123 ranking points, while the jumper with the second-most career points, American Dwight Stones has 90 points and four consecutive #1 rankings (1973–76.)

Great career, was a phenomenal champion, mixed feelings about the dope violations. I’m a big cycling fan which makes me dubious of athletes claiming innocence after an unfavorable test. The longevity is impressive.

Olympics: 1992 Barcelona Gold, 1996 Atlanta 11th, 2000 Sydney Silver (missed the 1988 Seoul due to boycott, was already the WR holder.)

Worlds: 1991 Tokyo silver, 1993 Stuttgart gold, 1995 Gothenburg silver, 1997 Athens gold

World Indoors: 1985 Paris silver, 1989 Budapest gold, 1991 Sevilla bronze, 1993 Toronto gold, 1995 Barcelona gold, 1999 Maebashi gold

Pan Am:  1987 Indianapolis gold, 1991 La Habana gold, 1995 Mar del Plata gold

Goodwill Games: 1994 Saint Petersburg gold, 1998 New York gold

Central American and Caribbean Games: 1990 Ciudad de México gold, 1993 Ponce gold, 1998 Maracaibo gold

High Jump World Record 2.45 meters 8.046 feet

12. (5 points) Haile Gebreselassie 

One of the greatest marathon runners of all time, he won back-to-back 10,000-meter gold at the 1996 and 2000 Olympics. The Ethiopian won at every distance. He broke 61 national records ranging from 800m to the marathon, set 27** WRs, and is regarded as one of the greatest distance runners in history.

(**ASIDE - I found several articles listing all of his WR. I’ll go with the Wikipedia entry but under protest; I think he only broke 23 official records according to my research. Astounding career nevertheless, this pedantic point is rather superficial.)

In September 2008, at the age of 35, he won the Berlin Marathon, breaking his own world record by 27 seconds. The record stood for three years, the masters record (age group 35+) for 11 years.

Ran New York Marathon 2010, DNF. Never ran Boston. McKayla is #notimpressed.

Wee little man (5’5”, 119), think Zacchaeus. Flag bearer at 2012 London Games. 

Lots of records, but this is about as high as I could rank him.

Olympics: 1996 Atlanta gold 10K (OR), 2000 Sydney gold 10K

Worlds: 1993 Stuttgart gold 10K, silver 5K, 1995 Gothenburg gold 10K, 1997 Athens gold 10K, 1999 Sevilla gold 10K, 2001 Edmonton bronze 10K, 2003 Saint-Denis silver 10K

World Indoors: 1997 Paris gold 3K, 1999 Maebashi gold 1500m and 3K, 2003 Birmingham gold 3K

Tier 2

Cold War Glory

11. (6 points) Bruce Jenner 

Decathlete from from the USA who set a WR in winning gold at the Montreal Olympics in 1976. Wrapped himself in Old Glory, which was not a thing then but It sure is now. John Belushi would mimic it in a Saturday Night Live skit. 

Jenner quickly became one of the biggest celebrities in the country. Actually, with the perspective of time, I guess we didn’t even know what celebrity was back in the quaint ole 70s.

I might have had a poster of her in my room when I was in 8th grade. The most famous trans woman in the world. No points for that here but it’s a heckuva legacy, however uncomfortable they may make you feel.

10. (7 points) Bob Matthias 

True American hero, twice the man Jenner is. Was. Whatever. Twice as many Au medals.

#cringydadjokes

Maybe my favorite fact about Bob Mathias’ back-to-back decathlon victories is that in 1948, he was so unsure of the decathlon rules - he had competed in his first decathlon just two months earlier - that he almost fouled out of the shot put and he almost failed to clear any height in the high jump. He won anyway and, for a moment, became perhaps the most famous athlete in the United States. 

He promised to never go through all that again, but he returned four years later and won the decathlon by a staggering 900 points, the largest gap in Olympic decathlon history. That year he also played fullback for Stanford making him the only man to win an Olympic gold medal and play in the Rose Bowl in the same year.

9. (8 points) Sergey Bubka 

Ukrainian world record-setting pole vaulter who won a gold medal during the 1988 Seoul Olympics. He represented the Soviet Union until 1983-1991.

In Soviet Union, pole vaults you. 

Pretty sure he cheated, the eastern communist bloc countries always did. I’m sure someone will tell me he was clean as a whistle & I’m not being fair. 
 

Broke the record a gazillion times, gaming the rewards system setup. #McKaylaisNOTimpressed

8. (9 points) Bob Beamon

When it takes officials twenty minutes to measure because you’ve out-jumped the limit of the electronic measuring device and they have to go find a tape measure, you know something EXTRAordinary just happened. 

29’ 2-1/2”

His 1968 Olympic Games long jump record is regarded as the most exceptional single performance in the history of athletics. 

He won just the one gold medal - in the 1968 long jump - so his place this high on the list is probably pretty dubious. But his one jump so shook the earth that you could argue he belongs even higher. People will forget he almost did not make the final that year; he fouled on his first two jumps and needed a sensible but pressure-packed jump on the third just to qualify. Then, in the final, he jumped 8.9 meters. He broke the previous world record by almost two feet. 

It was a quantum leap forward in the history of Olympic competition, a space-age jump into the future. The women’s long jump record in 1968 has been beaten by two feet. The men’s triple jump record is three feet longer than in 1968. But in 52 years only one man - Mike Powell - has jumped longer than Bob Beamon did that day, and to this day at major competitions often no one in the world comes within 12-18” of Beamon’s jump. 

Beamon realized he had done something extraordinary and he almost collapsed in shock. “You have destroyed this event,” the great long jumper Lynn Davies told him.

Not a fluke, either - he came in the favorite & nailed it. #respect

Bob Beamon’s World Record Long Jump - 1968 Mexico City Olympics

7. (10 points) Al Oerter 

The first athlete to win gold medals in the same event at four consecutive Olympics. Oerter won his first discus gold in 1956 in Melbourne when he was 20. He won his last in 1968 in Mexico City when he was the old man of the event at age 32. 

He is considered to be one of the greatest figures in Olympic track and field history. Oerter dominated the discus throw event between 1956 and 1968, breaking his own World Records, continuing his high level of competition into the 80s. Amazing story!

Mr Discus

6. (11 points) Edwin Moses 

The Streak. 122 straight.

Edwin Moses dominated the intermediate hurdles to an extent that no man has ever achieved in this or any other event. Though little known before the 1976 season, he set a world record of 47.63 in winning the Olympic title and improved the record in 1977 before setting his final world record of 47.13 in 1980. 

Moses won the U.S. Title in 1977, 1979, 1981, and 1983 and the World Cup race in 1977, 1979, and 1981 and was the first World Champion in the 400 hurdles in 1983. Moses was unbeaten for nearly 10 years, winning 122 consecutive races (107 finals) between 1977 and 1987. 

Known for his intelligence, he was a physics and industrial engineering major at Morehouse (#HBCUrepresent #moorehouseman), and later earned an MBA from Pepperdine. He won the Sullivan Award in 1983 and was voted Sports Illustrated’s Sportsman of the Year in 1984. In 1984 he was selected to recite the Olympic Oath at the Opening Ceremony of the Los Angeles Olympics. 

He seldom ran other races, but did clock 45.60 for 400 m (44.1 in a relay) in 1977 and 13.64 for the 110 m hurdles in 1978.

When he was in college, he used public high school facilities around Atlanta to train and run since Moorehouse did not have a track. Initially, Moses competed mostly in the 120-yard hurdles and 440 yard dash. Before March 1976, he ran only one 400 m hurdles race, but once he began focusing on the event he made remarkable progress.  He qualified for the U.S. team a few months after he began training for it, an amazing accomplishment in the modern era by itself.  

With his height of 6'2", Moses' trademark technique was to take a consistent 13 steps between each of the hurdles, pulling away in the second half of the race as his rivals often took 15 strides or changed their stride pattern. The Montreal Olympics were his first international meet; Moses won the gold medal, setting a world record of 47.63 seconds. It was a stunning thunderbolt to the world of Track & Field.

After breaking his own world record the following year at the Drake Stadium with a time of 47.45 seconds, Moses lost to West Germany’s Harald Schmid on August 26, 1977 in Berlin; this was his fourth defeat in the 400 m hurdles. Beginning the next week, Moses beat Schmid by 15 metres (49 ft) in Düsseldorf, and he did not lose another race for nine years, nine months and nine days. Moses qualified for the 1980 U.S. Olympic team but was unable to compete due to the U.S. boycott of the Moscow Games. 

In the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, Moses went on to win his second Olympic gold medal. By the time American Danny Harris beat Moses in Madrid on June 4, 1987, Moses had won 122 consecutive races, set the world record two more times, won three World Cup titles, a World Championship gold, as well as his two Olympic gold medals. After the loss to Harris, he went on to win 10 more races in a row, collecting his second world gold in Rome in August 1987.

The 1980 boycott deprived him of an almost certain second gold medal. Moses finished third in the final 400m hurdles race of his career at the 1988 Summer Olympics in Seoul.

1976 Montreal Olympics 400M Hurdles final  

5. (12 points) Michael Johnson 

USA sprinter who held the world record in 200m for 12 years from 1996 to 2008, and set a world record in 400m that stood for 17 years. First man to win gold medal in 200m and 400m in the same Olympics.

Make that he ONLY man to sweep the 200- and 400-meters at the same Olympics. How fast was he going when he hit the corner in the 200-meters? “My dad bought me a go-kart as a kid. There was a big hill at the end of the road. And I could make that go-kart go downhill so fast, it was like flying. … “It’s the only thing that really compares to running this fast.”

Really wanted to push him into Tier 1. Sprinters don’t typically do well in the 400 as it’s usually the domain of middle distance runners who, if they double, run the 800. Very special athlete with unique and lasting accomplishments.

Double Gold can of whupass 1996 Atlanta Games

400 meter record 1999

Tier 1 

The thrill of victory,   
the unfamiliarity of defeat


4. (13 points) Carl Lewis 

US Long Jump and 100m specialist from the '80s and '90s. He won nine Olympic gold medals in the long jump and sprints. Cannot dispute the 9 gold medals, ten medals overall. Back-to-back wins in the 100-meter dash because Ben Johnson is an idiot.

IDK why he never inspired me. Just seemed like a calculated, corporate machine. There was a coldness to him. Edwin was cool, Carl was...obnoxious & cold. Probably says more about me than him.

Carl Lewis Top Ten Olympic Gold moments

3. (14 points) Paavo Nurmi 

The Flying Finn. Nurmi set 24 official world records at distances between 1500m and 20K, and won nine gold and three silver medals in his twelve events over three Olympic Games 1920-28. At his peak, Nurmi was undefeated for 121 races at distances from 800m and upwards. Throughout his 14-year career, he remained unbeaten in cross country events and the 10K.

It might have been higher. 

In the 1924 Paris Games the Finland, Nurmi won 5 Gold Medals (3 individual, 2 team) in 4 days, and was the Finnish representative in the 800 and the 10K. He elected not to run the former, and the team decided to keep him out of the 10K for rest purposes (he was the reigning Olympic champion and undefeated at that distance in his career.) The omission seems to have left him fuming. While countryman Ville Ritola was winning the 10K in a world-record 30:23.2, Nurmi was on the training track, alone, running 29:58. 

Late in his career Nurmi focused on the marathon. His plan was to climax his career by running his first marathon and winning his 10th gold medal at the 1932 Olympics in Los Angeles. Just before the games, in one of the most ill-judged official rulings of all time, Nurmi was suspended for “suspected professionalism." He was surely ready for the marathon, age 35, with 12 years of elite experience, a 10,000m PR of 30:06.1, and the 1-hour and 20K world records. He invariably prepared thoroughly and had proven his ability in hot conditions. An informed estimate for Nurmi's debut is 2:19:00. The world record in 1932 was 2:29:20. Nurmi's exclusion was one of the great lost opportunities in running history. No evidence ever emerged to support the allegations, and his supreme career ended enigmatically.

____________________

The taciturn long-distance runner was one of the greatest athletes there has ever been. The name Paavo Nurmi is right at the top of the list of the best long-distance runners of all time. He is often spoken about in the same breath as the Czech Emil Zatopek and the Ethiopian Haile Gebrselassie. However for many people the Finn is the only number 1. Nobody has broken more world records than he did and nobody has had so many Olympic victories.

Nurmi's running speed and elusive personality spawned nicknames such as the "Phantom Finn", while his achievements, training methods and running style influenced future generations of middle- and long-distance runners. Nurmi, who rarely ran without a stopwatch in his hand, has been credited for introducing the "even pace" strategy and analytic approach to running, and for making running a major international sport.

He is the only runner ever to hold world records simultaneously for the mile, 5,000m and 10,000m.

_____________________

For such an acclaimed hero, Nurmi remains elusive, a complex of contradictions. He was the most deeply committed runner the world had ever seen, yet he seemed to run without passion or pleasure. He loved to win yet never smiled. He studied the science of running but never shared his knowledge. He had no specialty, excelling at everything from indoor 800m to 20K road races.

He was a relentless racer but seemed to give more attention to the bulky stopwatch he carried in one hand than to his striving opponents. He accepted late-life honors, like lighting the 1952 Olympic flame in Helsinki, yet often protested that he valued his success in business more than his running.

Living in a land that veers seasonally between interminable darkness and the sleepless sun at midnight, a place that survives the cold under the giant shadow of Russia, the Finns define themselves by sisu, "intense, impassive and self-disciplined resilience under adversity."

Olympics:

Antwerp 1920: 3 gold (10,000 m, individual & team cross-country) & 1 silver (5,000 m)

Paris 1924: 5 gold (1,500 m, 5,000 m, individual & team cross-country, 3,000 m team)

Amsterdam 1928: 1 gold (10,000 m) & 2 silver (5,000 m, 3,000 m steeplechase)

#scoreboard 

Nurmi was inspired by Hannes Kolehmainen, who won 3 Golds in 1912 in Stockholm and the marathon in the 1920 Games. The pair lit the cauldron to open the Helsinki Games in 1952.

His Paris achievements came in the middle of a blistering heatwave that hit Paris just as the Games got underway. On July 10 he won the 1500 and 5000, both in WR time, only 2 hours apart.  On the 11th he won heats for the 3000. The next day he won two more golds, in the Team and Individual Cross Country heats. He won the individual Cross Country event by 1.5 minutes in 113 degree weather. Most of the competitors had early in the day competed in the Team event, and only 15 of 38 runners completed the course. On Sunday, July 13, he completed the most incredible track week in Olympic history by winning his 5th golf medal in the 3K team.

____________________

World Records & Progression

At the 1924 Olympic Trials in Helsinki, Paavo lowered the 1500m WR by 2.1 seconds. The 1500 record had stood for 7 years; no other runner matched his progression until 1957-58, and it wasn’t exceeded until Jim Ryan lowered the record by 2.5 seconds in 1957. 45 minutes later, he broke the 5K WR.

In an extensive 1925 tour of the United States - over 5 months he won 53 of 55 races - Nurmi lowered the One Mile world record by a full second in NYC in January and then another 1.4 seconds in March at a Buffalo meet. Thirteen years would pass before a runner matched his progression mark of 0:00:01.4, and 37 years before it was exceeded.

He set the 3K meter world record three times 1922-26; the record stood until 1932. His July ‘26 run in Stockholm had broken his own record of two months by 5 full seconds. All time greats Gunder Hägg (1942) and Kipchoge Keino (1965) are the only two with a larger progression of this record.

At 5000 meters, Nurmi broke his idol Kolehmainen’s ten year old mark in 1922. At the 1924 Trials - 3/4 of an hour after shattering the 1500 meter record - Paavo broke his own WR by 7.2 seconds. Both records stood for 8 years.

In his best event, 10000 meters, Paavo’s first World Record broke a 10 year old mark. 8 weeks after not being allowed by the Finish delegation to compete in the 10K at the Paris Games, Nurmi broke the WR set by his teammate by 17.0 seconds. The record stood for 13 years, the progression jump for two decades.

In Berlin fall, 1928, Nurmi set a new WR in the one hour run. It broke a 15 year old record and stood for 17 years. The progression stood for 23 years.

_____________________

After the 1932 IOC lifetime ban the publicity-shy Finn retreated into private life and began a second career as a successful building contractor and businessman. He sole little of his athletic achievements, focusing on wealth accumulation, and became one of the richest men in Finland.

Only once did Paavo Nurmi return to the limelight. He carried the Olympic flame into the stadium in Helsinki in 1952 and lit it, joined on the platform by his childhood hero. Paavo Nurmi was greeted with a storm of jubilation – a special honour and gratification for the 54-year-old, who was finally being rehabilitated

____________________

It’s all but impossible to define the toughness of Nurmi. He once won the 5,000-meter and the 1,500-meter on the same day. He set Olympic records in both. 

He was famously intense; my favorite Nurmi fact is that when Emil Zátopek, who would win the 5,000, 10,000 and marathon at the 1952 Olympics, felt like he was spent he would shout to the heavens

“I am Nurmi! I am Nurmi!”

Seriously considered him for #2.

1924 Paris - 9 races (including heats) 5 golds over 6 days

2. (15 points) Usain Bolt 

What is left to say about Bolt? Winner of eight golds. Swept the 100-, 200- and 4×100-meter relays London and Rio de Janeiro Olympics. World-record holder at 100- and 200-meters.

Bolt is the only sprinter to win Olympic 100 mand 200 m titles at three consecutive Olympics (Beijing 2008, 2012 and 2016.)

The greatest sprinter of all time. Current world record holder in the 100 metres, 200 metres and 4 × 100 metres relay.

Could have easily pushed his ranking to #1 with few objections.

Usain Bolt’s 9.58 - the night he obliterated the World Record

Usain Bolt wins Olympic 100m Gold London 2012

Regular people try to beat the world’s fastest man

Jamaica breaks Men’s 4x100 WR London 2012

100m Final 2016 Rio

200m Final Rio 2016

4x100m Final Rio - Bolt’s last Olympic race

Usain Bolt | All Olympic Final

1. (16 POINTS) Jesse Owens

Ground breaking USA sprinter and long jumper who competed at the Olympics just once, in Berlin 1936, winning 4 gold medals.

1935 Big Ten Track and Field Championships (Ann Arbor, MI)

5 World Records set & another tied (4 events) in 45 minutes. WHILE INJURED. It is still hard to fathom what happened that day.

1936 Olympics

Owens won four gold medals and set two world records in the most heated environment imaginable.

What Owens did in 1936, with Nazism on the rise, with Hitler himself in the crowd, is the most remarkable achievement in the history of the Olympics. He won the 100-meter, the 200-meter, the long jump and was part of the gold-medal winning 4×100-meter relay team. Owens set three world records (200m, two in 4x100m), shattering Hitler's theories of Aryan superiority.

In that moment, he overcame the racism of his own country and the rising hatred in another. 

He’s the greatest Olympian of them all.

U-S-A 

#BLM

1. (16 POINTS) Jesse Owens   
2. (15 points) Usain Bolt 
   
3. (14 points) Paavo Nurmi         
4. (13 points) Carl Lewis


5. (12 points) Michael Johnson   
6. (11 points) Edwin Moses   
7. (10 points) Al Oerter    
8. (9 points) Bob Beamon    
9. (8 points) Sergey Bubka     
10. (7 points) Bob Mathias    
11. (6 points) Bruce Jenner

12. (5 points) Haile Gebrselassie    
13. (4 points) Javier Sotomaye    
14. (3 points) Jonathan Edwards   
15. (2 points) Richard Fosbury   
16. (1 point) ancient Greek Marathon legend dude

As Ken Burns once famously sent out in Morse code...

Baseball next
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1. (16 POINTS) Jesse Owens   
2. (15 points) Usain Bolt 
   
3. (14 points) Paavo Nurmi         
4. (13 points) Carl Lewis


5. (12 points) Michael Johnson   
6. (11 points) Edwin Moses   
7. (10 points) Al Oerter    
8. (9 points) Bob Beamon    
9. (10 points) Sergey Bubka     
10. (11 points) Bob Mathias    
11. (6 points) Bruce Jenner


12. (5 points) Haile Gebrselassie    
13. (4 points) Javier Sotomaye    
14. (3 points) Jonathan Edwards   
15. (2 points) Richard Fosbury   
16. (1 point) ancient Greek Marathon legend dude

Baseball next
Why I wish people only listed rankings by points earned only for $1,000,000,000 Alex.

 
Standings after BobbyLayne ranked Men's Track & Field

 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --Gally--369--3--1--3=7 (bronze)

2 --Ilov80s--358--3--4--1=8 (gold)

3 --tuffnutt--353--3--1--5=9

4 --AAABatteries--348--3--2--4=9

5 --DougB--344--5--2--1=8

6 --Zow--337--3--2--5=10

7 --Getzlaf15--333--1--5--2=8

8 --otb_lifer--329--0--2--2=4

9 --jwb--324--2--4--2=8

10 -joffer--318--3--3--1=7

11 -timschochet--313--2--2--3=7

12 -Long Ball Larry--307--2--2--3=7

13 -wikkidpissah--292--1--1--4=6 (silver)

14 -Jagov--286--2--4--0=6

15 -higgins--283--1--1--2=4

16 -Kal El--273--4--2--0=6

 
Just off the top of my head, both would have slotted right around Marcus Allen. Edge a bit over Gore - Gore has that Harris-like "good but not great" production. Edge's peak was pretty darn good. 

Bettis and Riggins both had sub 4.0 YPC for their career - they have to be at the bottom. Edge didn't have the greatest career YPC either (but he did hit that magic 4.0).
I also considered Eddie George. 

 
This was driving me nuts during the draft. Players were going off the board and none of them were Thompson. I hadn't offered up to be a judge yet at the time he was chosen, I don't think, but I had a scathing post forming in my mind if he had been left unchosen.

I guess he's been kind of forgotten, since his pro career was cut short due to injury and dope (though he did score 73 points in an NBA game and earned the name "Skywalker") and he played before ESPN was a thing. 

If Alcindor had been chosen in this category, Thompson still would have been my #1. I've never seen a player like him.
I took him and part of the reason I took him so late was that there were a few guys I liked.  Without doing any research I had him and Carmelo together.  

Once I did a little research and realized Carmelo was good with an exceptional tournament he slid down because I thought he should be penalized for that short career (and he did).  Thompson just was too good.  His numbers were incredible and he hit all the important points.  I was extremely happy to get him.

 
16. (1 point) Pheidippides

Could not find any record of him at http://www.olympedia.org/

The central figure in the story that inspired a modern sporting event, the marathon race.  Pheidippides is said to have run from Marathon to Athens to deliver news of the victory of the battle of Marathon.

That would make him a bad ### mothershucker if true, but the story is likely a romantic invention. It’s not found in the recorded history of the day. 
The story alone should have gotten him 16 points !!!  :D

PS - You get 16 points, the gold medal and eternal gratitude for the judging effort you put in!!

 
38.11 - Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson - Greatest All Around Athlete

We're nearing the end of this category, so let''s throw a dart. Maybe I get a 1, or maybe I outkick the coverage with this pick and score somewhere in the middle. But you cannot deny that he's a fantastic athlete. Highly-recruited football player, got a scholarship with the Miami Hurricanes, was a starting DT that eventually got replaced by Sapp, made a CFL roster for a bit, and then went on to become one of the greatest pro wrestlers of all time. 

@Jagov
Been reading through many pages for the first time and naturally this caught my attention.

The Rock knew how to use his athletic ability to draw a crowd. If you're looking for pro wrestlers that were great athletes, here are some more:

  • Giant Baba - won the Nippon Professional Baseball League's highest pitching honors as part of the Yomiuri Giants in 3 of the 5 years he played in the league. He went on to found the foundational pro wrestling organization (All Japan Pro Wrestling) of the latter half of the 20th Century in Japan. He became the next big draw of Japanese pro wrestling, following in the shadow of Rikidozan. If you know anything about pro wrestling in Japan, the name Giant Baba is synonymous with greatness.
  • Dan Severn - he held Ten Pounds of Gold for the NWA twice (one of which was a four-year reign) in some fairly lean times for the once-flourishing, then-floundering promotion.
  • Kurt Angle - won Olympic medal with a BROKEN FREAKIN' NECK 😉. Folks in the business claim he was the quickest they ever saw "get the business." Basically no training, took to the ring like a fish to water.
  • Brock Lesnar - unreal pro wrestling talent that made his WWE debut in 2001 and is still cashing monster checks today
  • Ronda Rousey - she was an incredible pro wrestler for having basically zero practice gym time before her debut (maybe a year of training?!?!)
  • Kazuchika Okada - no one knows this guy except for true nerds and Japanese natives, but my god he makes me believe the sporting stories he tells in the New Japan ring. He is the greatest current active pro wrestler (preceded by Hiroshi Tanahashi)
 
JUDGING ANNOUNCEMENT - GREATEST FEMALE GYMNAST (56)

RANKINGS

Well ... Here they are. Much later than planned but still not the last category judged. Let the grievances start to flow!!

16 (1 pt) - MARY LOU RETTON

A true flash in the pan. Did well in US tournaments and in the 1984 Olympics but other than that … nada. No other large international tournament medals. She didn’t even participate in any! No impact on the sport post-career. Her career was only 3 years long. Only 1 international gold medal, by far the least of all who were drafted. Got more mileage out of her contact with Reagan and various TV appearances than she did from her sport. She is in the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame which was a surprise to discover. She probably should not have been selected in this competition. Lilia Podkopayeva would have been a better scoring choice.

15 (2 pts) - GABBY DOUGLAS

Much better than Mary Lou, but still not as good as the other 14 candidates. 11 medals (10 of which were gold) from 2 Olympics and 5 other large international tournaments. High ratio of gold medals to total medals but her average medals per competition is weaker than most selected. No perfect scores, no HOF membership, no Olympic order. She was voted the AP Female Athlete of the Year in 2012. Became somewhat of a media darling after retirement. 

14 (3 pts) - GINA GOGEAN

The first of quite a few Romanians to come on this list. And like some of the others, there were suspicions of birth date falsification to enable earlier competition. She won 33 medals (14 gold) in 2 Olympics and 10 other large international tournaments. Unfortunately, she never won an Olympic gold medal. This and no perfect scores during her career held her back during the judging. She is in the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. Went into coaching, judging and TV after career ended.

13 (4 pts) - LAVINIA MILOSOVICI

Nice overall career arc. Trademark was pretty much her four-event mastery. She earned 26 medals (11 gold) at 2 Olympics and 8 other large international tournaments. 2 of her 11 gold medals came at Olympic Games. Has 1 perfect score to her name. She was inducted into the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame in 2011. After retiring, she returned to Lugoj to coach gymnastics. In 2002, she posed naked and performed topless gymnastic routines for a Japanese DVD.

12 (5 pts) - DANIELA SILLVAS

Began with gymnastics at the age of 6, which is quite late for Romanian gals. She was known for her difficult routines. Won 29 medals (15 gold) at 1 Olympics and 7 other large international tournaments. Owned the 1988 Olympics by medaling in every event, winning 3 gold and earning 7 perfect scores. Had 4 other perfect scores during her career. She retired in 1991 and moved to the United States, where she is now a gymnastics coach. In 2002, she was inducted into the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. No naked pictures that we know of!

11 (6 pts) - YELENA SHUSHUNOVA 

1 of 4 gals on this list to win all-around titles at all major competitions. She has a more than respectable medal haul for in her career. 35 medals (21 gold) at 1 Olympics and 7 other large international tournaments. 2 of her 21 gold medals came at the Olympics in 1988. She was unable to compete at the 1984 Olympics due to boycott reasons. A member of the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. 7 perfect scores to her name. She helped to organize the gymnastics events of the 1994 Goodwill Games and 1998 European Championships after retirement.

10 (7 pts) - SVETLANA BOGINSKAYA

The Belorussian Swan competed at 3 different Olympics, each time under a different flag - USSR, the Unified Team and Belarus. She earned 32 medals (20 gold) at those Olympic Games and 10 other large international tournaments.3 Olympic gold medals and 7 perfect scores during her career help her into the top 10 of the rankings. She was inducted into the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame in 2005. Remained active in the international gymnastics community and works as a consulting guest coach. Was in the Revolution Earth music video by the B-52s!

9 (8 pts) - AGNES KELETI

The start of her career was heavily impacted by World War II and she didn't get to compete in the Olympics until she was 31. She still managed to perform pretty damned well in her 2 Olympic appearances, earning 10 medals, 5 of which were gold. She added another 9 medals (5 gold) at 2 other large international tournaments. No perfect scores along the way but she is a member of the International Womens Sports HOF as well as the Gymnastic HOF. She also coached and worked with Israel's national gymnastics team well into the 1990s. I believe she would have been higher on this list if she had been able to compete more.

8 (9 pts) - OLGA KORBUT

In 1972, The Sparrow from Minsk redefined gymnastics, changing the sport from one focused on ballet to one focused on acrobatics. She also helped moved gymnastics from a niche sport to one of the most popular sports in the world. During here career, she won 13 medals (6 of them gold) during 2 Olympics and 2 other large international tournaments. She has perfect scores to her name. She was the first gymnast to be inducted into the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. She is also in the International Womens Sports Hall of Fame. Her limited participation in competitions during her career hurt her in the rankings.

7 (10 pts) - NELLIE KIM

The Soviet gymnast with a Korean name. Nellie hauled in an admirable number of medals during her days in the gym. 29 medals (12 gold) in 2 Olympics and 6 other large international tournaments. She kind of got lost in the shuffle due to the other strong gymnasts of the 1970s. But she was a great one. 2 perfect scores to her name and a member of the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame. Post career, she worked as a coach, training several national teams and judged many major international competitions. 

6 (11pts) - SVETLANA KHORKINA

Of all the gals selected, she has the largest trophy case by far! She earned an epic 57 medals (30 gold) in 3 Olympics and 20 other large international tournaments. She won more gold than half of the other gals won total medals. She also competed in far more tournaments than all others chosen. Winner of the Longines Prize for Elegance 1999. Post retirement she became the Vice-president of the Russian Artistic Gymnastics Federation. Only winning 2 Olympic gold kept her outside of the top 3 in the rankings.

5 (12 pts) - LUDMILLA TOURISCHEVA

She was the most unknown gymnast to me entering into the judging and what I discovered was surprisingly impressive. From 1970 to 1974, Ludmilla dominated almost every major international tournament. During her career she won 39 medals (24 gold) from 3 Olympics and 7 other large international tournaments. 4 of her gold medals were won at the Olympics. She has no perfect scores to her name but is a member of the Olympic Order, the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame and the International Womens Sports Hall of Fame. Post retirements she was elected to the Women's Artistic Gymnastics Technical Committee of the International Gymnastics Federation.

4 (13 pts) - VERA CASLAVSKA

Vera created and maintained a high standard of performance while dealing with tons of political oppression. She won 33 medals (22 gold) from 3 Olympics and 8 other large international tournaments. 7 total Olympic gold medals. One of only 2 gymnasts to win consecutive Olympic gold medals for All Around. Was the first gymnast to achieve a perfect 10. Member of the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame and the International Womens Sports Hall of Fame. She was very close to the 3rd position in this ranking. Very close indeed!

3 (14 pts) - SIMONE BILES

SImone is the most decorated American gymnast ever. She has won 35 medals (27 gold) at 1 Olympics and 9 other large international tournaments. She won 4 gold at her only Olympic appearance but … She came away from her 5 WC appearances with 25 medals (19 gold). Amazing! She is a 3x Laureus Sportswomen of the Year winner. She has buckets of US based awards and it is just a matter of time until the International versions come her way. Still active so she can continue to  build on her already great career.

2 (15 pts) - LARISA LATYNINA (My Selection)

Larisa holds the record for the most Olympic gold medals by a gymnast, male or female, with 9. Her total of 18 Olympic medals was a record for 48 years. During her career she won 46 medals (25 gold) from 3 Olympics and 7 other large international tournaments. During the 1958 WC, she medaled in ever event, winning 5 of them while she was 4 months pregnant!

Member of the Olympic Order, the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame and the International Womens Sports Hall of Fame. Laid the ground work that enabled the Soviet Union to be a dominant force in gymnastics for years. Was a coach for the Soviet national gymnastics team, a position she held until 1977. Under her coaching the Soviet women won team gold in the 1968, 1972 and 1976 Olympics. She organized the gymnastics competition at the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow.

I was 100% convinced when I selected Larisa that I had a category winner. But I during the judging it became impossible to rank her above ...

1 (16 pts) - NADIA COMANECI

She is the worlds best know gymnast, even today. She popularized the sport around the globe. And in this competition she is the GREATEST!

The first gymnast to be awarded a perfect score at the Olympic Games. Over the course of her career she would mark up 11 perfect scores next to her name. She won 32 medals (23 gold) from 2 Olympics and 7 other large international tournaments. 5 Olympic gold medals hang in her trophy case. She was the AP Athlete of the Year in 1976. The UPI International Athlete of the Year in 1975 & 1976. In 2000, she was named as one of the Athletes of the 20th Century. She is a member of the Olympic Order (TWICE!), the International Gymnastics Hall of Fame and the International Womens Sports Hall of Fame.

Congrats Nadia!

 
Standings after Jagov's ratings of Women's Gymnastics


 

--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL

1 --Gally--377--3--1--3=7

2 --Ilov80s--371--3--4--1=8

3 --DougB--354--5--2--1=8

4 --tuffnutt--354--3--1--5=9

5 --AAABatteries--352--3--2--4=9

6 --Zow--349--3--2--5=10

7 --Getzlaf15--347--1--5--3=9 (bronze)

8 --otb_lifer--336--0--2--2=4

9 --joffer--329--3--3--1=7

10 -jwb--327--2--4--2=8

11 -timschochet--318--2--2--3=7

12 -Long Ball Larry--316--2--2--3=7

13 -wikkidpissah--308--2--1--4=7 (gold)

14 -Jagov--301--2--5--0=7 (silver)

15 -higgins--289--1--1--2=4

16 -Kal El--275--4--2--0=6

 
JUDGING ANNOUNCEMENT - GREATEST FEMALE GYMNAST (56)

RANKINGS

Well ... Here they are. Much later than planned but still not the last category judged. Let the grievances start to flow!!

16 (1 pt) - MARY LOU RETTON

15 (2 pts) - GABBY DOUGLAS

14 (3 pts) - GINA GOGEAN

13 (4 pts) - LAVINIA MILOSOVICI

12 (5 pts) - DANIELA SILLVAS

11 (6 pts) - YELENA SHUSHUNOVA 

10 (7 pts) - SVETLANA BOGINSKAYA

9 (8 pts) - AGNES KELETI

8 (9 pts) - OLGA KORBUT

7 (10 pts) - NELLIE KIM

6 (11pts) - SVETLANA KHORKINA

5 (12 pts) - LUDMILLA TOURISCHEVA

4 (13 pts) - VERA CASLAVSKA

3 (14 pts) - SIMONE BILES

2 (15 pts) - LARISA LATYNINA (My Selection)

1 (16 pts) - NADIA COMANECI
a syllabus in syllables.

pretty sure Biles will be a slam dunk by the next time FFA does this, so it's good for the other era-dominators to have their day

ETA: i met Nadia - a great pleasure for me cuz i was at the '76 Olympics - around the turn of the century. She & her husband had a touring company of Gym-Capades or whatever that came into the MGM Grand Reno right after the touring company of Cats (which my cousin was in) and we ran into them during the overlap/set-up. i was astounded because i expected her to be tiny, but she wasnt even what one would consider on the small side and, of course, she'd filled out substantially

 
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HOW THE #### WAS SAWCHUK NOT NUMBER ONE??!?!

🤠
In 21 seasons, this is the best he could do.

 

Save Percentage - Top 10 (9 seasons not in Top 10)

1955-56 NHL .916 (5th)

1956-57 NHL .920 (2nd)

1957-58 NHL .905 (7th)

1958-59 NHL .896 (7th)

1959-60 NHL .909 (4th)

1960-61 NHL .897 (6th)

1961-62 NHL .888 (6th)

1962-63 NHL .912 (4th)

1963-64 NHL .917 (4th)

1964-65 NHL .915 (4th)

1965-66 NHL .904 (6th)

1966-67 NHL .917 (5th)

Career NHL .907 (69th)

 
btw, @Jagov ... Shannon Miller was a yuuuge omission here - where would she have ranked?

i wrestled with her and Bogie - think Miller would've been the better call  :popcorn:

 
In 21 seasons, this is the best he could do.

 

Save Percentage - Top 10 (9 seasons not in Top 10)

1955-56 NHL .916 (5th)

1956-57 NHL .920 (2nd)

1957-58 NHL .905 (7th)

1958-59 NHL .896 (7th)

1959-60 NHL .909 (4th)

1960-61 NHL .897 (6th)

1961-62 NHL .888 (6th)

1962-63 NHL .912 (4th)

1963-64 NHL .917 (4th)

1964-65 NHL .915 (4th)

1965-66 NHL .904 (6th)

1966-67 NHL .917 (5th)

Career NHL .907 (69th)
rhetorical shtick down?

 

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