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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Great job on these rankings @hagmania
_______________________
This draft was so much fun to follow. I’m really glad I invested in judging a few Cats, was a nice diversion during shelter-in-place. Thanks @timschochet
BUT...one huge hole was treating the (former) National Pastime like other North America team sports. One thing that sets apart the only untimed sport is not so much moments but events that happen over time. Williams hitting .406 (or Carew .388 or Brett .390, flirting with .400 well into the summer), DiMaggio’s 56-game hitting streak (or if you prefer, Rose’s 44-gamer), Drysdale’s 6 straight shutouts / 58.2 scoreless innings streak** (or Herseiser’s 59.) One thing that used to be a National Obsession - and this has never been true in the NBA, NFL, or NHL - is the Pennant Race. Admittedly it’s less in vogue now with the advent of the WC and then the 2nd WC.
Ain’t nothing more patriotic than a good ole fashioned pennant race! Here’s a fictional bonus writeup (sans judging) in honor of the 4th of July.
Worthy draft picks for for Greatest Pennant Race non-category:
1908 NL - This was the year when the three great NL teams of that era: the Chicago Cubs, New York Giants, and Pittsburgh Pirates, battled each other all season long for the league flag. The three teams were easily the class of the league and they went down to the final weekend of the season in a duel for first place. On the morning of the final Friday of the season, the three teams were in a tie atop the standings, though the Giants led by percentage points because they’d played two fewer games due to rainouts and thus had one fewer loss. The Pirates won 13 of 14 games down the stretch but lost to the Cubs on the last Sunday to be eliminated. The Giants and Cubs had to replay a game that had ended in a tie weeks earlier after New York rookie Fred Merkle was called out for failing to advance and touch second base on a run-scoring hit. The Cubs won the makeup game at The Polo Grounds in front of an estimated 40,000 fans, the largest crowd to see a baseball game to that point in history. The baserunning mishap became forever known as “Merkle’s Boner.”
1908 AL - While the NL was staging their dramatic pennant race, the American League had a barnburner of their own. On October 5, with just a few days left in the season, the Tigers led the Indians and Sox by 1/2 game. The Tigers, led by 21-year old batting star Ty Cobb, lost the first two games of a three-game series to Chiacgo before winning on the final day of the season, 7-0. They won the pennant by a half-game because there was no rule at that time that teams had to make up games that were rained out or called by darkness. More than 100 years later, it remains the closest pennant race finish in history.
1914 NL - The Miracle (Boston) Braves were 15 games out of first place on July 6 but went on to go 68-19 in the final half of the season and won the pennant by 10 games.
1915 AL - Once again the Tigers and Cobb found themselves in a pennant chase with a rival. The Red Sox were a great team led by a talented pitching staff that included Smoky Joe Wood, Ernie Shore, Rube Foster, Carl Mays, Dutch Leonard, and Babe Ruth. In a game between the two teams in September, Cobb was nearly attacked by a mob at Fenway Park when he threw his bat at Mays after being hit by a pitch. The Tigers won that game, but lost the next three at Boston to fall back. Boston won the pennant with 101 victories, while Detroit became the first club to win 100 games and not finish in first place.
1920 AL - the Black Sox scandal broke in the waning days of the season. 1/2 game out of first, 7 players still with Chicago are suspended with a week left in the season.
1930 NL - The Cards were 12 games out of first place on August 9 and only one game over .500. But they won 39 of their final 49 and claimed the pennant by two games over the Cubs.
1934 NL - When asked his opinion of the crosstown Dodgers in the middle of the ’34 season, New York Giants manager Bill Terry quipped, “Is Brooklyn still in the league?” Those words came back to bite Terry when the Dodgers beat his club in the last two games of the season to deny them the pennant. The Giants needed only to win one of those two games to clinch at least a tie, but Brooklyn, charged by Terry’s words pounded the G-Men 5-1 on Saturday and won 8-5 in extra innings on Sunday. Meanwhile, the Cardinals went 13-2 down the stretch to steal the flag by a single game. The Cards were led by the Brothers Dean (Dizzy and Paul), who won eight of those 13 games and saved another.
1938 NL - The Bucs seemed to have a solid grip on first place from late July until mid-September, but then they faltered while the hard-charging Cubs refused to lose. Chicago went 17-3 starting in September 4 to inch within 1 1/2 games of Pittsburgh. The two met in a crucial three-game set at Wrigley Field starting on September 27. Chicago won the first game 2-1, behind Dizzy Dean. The next day the two teams were knotted in the bottom of the 9th innings as late afternoon darkness descended upon lightless Wrigley. The umps ruled that the 9th would be the final inning and if the game were tied it would have to be replayed the next day. Cubs catcher Gabby Hartnett was batting with two outs and an 0-2 count when he turned on a fastball from Mace Brown and belted a homer into the left field bleachers for a dramatic walk-off win. The Cubs were in first place, the stunned Pirates lost the next day, and also lost three of four to the Reds to finish the season in second place, two games back of the Cubs. “Homer in the Gloamin”
1942 NL - Cardinals pull off another late season miracle. This time St. Louis trailed by 10 games on August 5. But the Redbirds won 44 of their last 53 and overtook the Dodgers for the NL crown.
1948 AL - Like the 1908 NL race, this one featured three excellent teams with many stars. The Indians were led by Bob Feller and shortstop/manager Lou Boudreau; the Red Sox had Ted Williams and Bobby Doerr; while the Yanks relied on Joe DiMaggio and Ypgi Berra. All would later earn spots in the Hall of Fame, and they played key roles in this pennant drama. With a week left, all three teams were tied with a 91-56 record. The Indians won four straight (two of them victories by Feller) to move two games ahead. But when they lost two of three to Detroit while the Red Sox swept the Yankees in the final weekend, it left Cleveland and Boston tied atop the standings. For the first time in history, a one-game playoff was needed to decide the pennant. Played at Fenway Park on October 4, the Indians crushed the BoSox 8-3, behind two homers by Boudreau.
1949 AL - Anyone who thinks Roger Kahn’s Boys of Summer is the quintessential baseball book has obviously never read David Halberstam’s timeless Summer of ‘49.
This time the Yankees didn’t fade at the end as they had the previous season. With two games to go, the Yankees trailed the Red Sox by one game as the two teams met at Yankee Stadium. The Yanks rallied from a 4-0 deficit to beat the Sox in the first game, with Johnny Lindell’s homer in the 8th inning providing the winning margin in a 5-4 victory. In the finale, the game was 1-0 until the Yanks erupted for four runs in the 8th inning to forge a 5-0 advantage. Boston manager Joe McCarthy (who had guided the Yanks to several pennants as their skipper), was criticized for using three pitchers in that inning, one of them the injured Tex Hughson. The strange decision proved costly when the Sox scored three runs and had the tying run at the plate in the ninth, only to lose, 5-3. The Yanks won the pennant and went on to win the first of their record five straight World Series titles.
1951 NL - The Giants trailed the Dodgers by 13 games on August 12 but went 38-7 in their final 45 games (including 16 straight) to force a playoff with Brooklyn. The NL scheduled a best-of-three series for the first time to decide the pennant. The Dodgers won the first game at Ebbets Field, but the Giants won Game Two in a 10-0 rout. New York trailed Game Three by two runs in the bottom of the ninth when Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard 'Round the World" 3-run HR gave the Giants the walk-off win. Radio broadcaster Russ Hodges can still be heard shouting "The Giants win the pennant, the Giants win the pennant!"
1962 NL - As in ’51, the Giants stalked the Dodgers and caught them in September, but this time with both teams on the west coast. This time the Giants came from 5 1/2 games back in early August, winning 6 of 7 head-to-head with LA. The two teams finished tied again at the end of the regular schedule (each with 101 wins) and were forced to play a three game series. The Giants pummeled Sandy Koufax to win Game One, 8-0. In the second game, the Dodgers speedster Maury Wills scored on a sacrifice fly by Ron Fairly to win in the bottom of the ninth, 8-7, forcing a third contest. Playing at Dodger Stadium, the Giants trailed 4-2 to in the 9th inning. But Willie Mays and Orlando Cepeda delivered RBIs to tie the game and the go-ahead run scored on a bases-loaded walk to Jim Davenport by reliever Stan Williams. The Giamts tacked on another run to stun LA and win the pennant, 6-4.
1964 NL - The Bob Gibson-led Cardinals were 11 games out on as late as August 24 but went 28-11 in their final 39 games to capture the Pennant. Most great pennant races include one team collapsing. Nothing tops the Phillies blowing a 6-1/2 game lead with 12 to play by losing 10 in a row.
1967 AL - Red Sox Impossible Dream - 9th to 1st, Longburg won 22 and the Cy Young, Yaz goes 10-13 the final weekend to sew up the Triple Crown & MVP. Boston never spent a day in solo first, only were tied six times in September (true 4-team race), won the pennant by one with the lowest percentage (92-70) in history up until then.
The entire second half of the season four teams shifted around at the top of the standings. On September 18, three teams were tied in first and the fourth team was just one half-game back. Eventually - but not until the final Thursday of the season - the White Sox faded, leaving the Twins, Red Sox, and Tigers to duke it out. After several of their games had been rained out, the Tigers were forced to play doubleheaders on Saturday and Sunday to finish their schedule. Meanwhile, Minnesota battled Boston in Fenway Park. The Tigers split their Saturday twinbill with the Angels while Boston beat the Twins to move into a tie. Detroit trailed by a half-game and needed to win both games on Sunday to force a one-game playoff with whichever team won in Boston. The Red Sox scored five runs in the sixth to erase a 2-0 Minnesota lead and held on to win 5-3, eliminating the Twins. Detroit won their first game, and led game two 3-1 in the second inning before the Angels jumped on Denny McLain and four subsequent relievers for seven runs in three innings. The Tigers lost 8-5, as **** McAuliffe into a double play (the only one he grounded into all year!) in the 9th with two runners on base.
#iamnotbitter #notatall
1969 NL East - Miracle Mets. On August 14, the New York Mets trailed the Chicago Cubs by 10 games in the NL East standings. While it was amazing - 38-11 finish to vault past the Cubs and win the division by 8 - the story isn’t so much the comeback as how unexpected it was. New York had lost 100 games 5 of their first 7 seasons, never finishing higher than 9th.The Mets would go on the claim the World Series in five games over the Orioles.
1978 AL East - The Yankees trailed by 14 games in the AL East on July 19. But the Bronx Bombers won 52 of their remaining 73 games and Bucky effing Dent's game-winning home run in the one-game tie breaker with the Red Sox gave New York the division.
1981 MLB - after a labor dispute wipes out 1/3 of the season, the owners decide to play split seasons. Cincinnati missed the playoffs despite having the best record in MLB.
1987 AL East - shades of 1964, the Blue Jays were up 3-1/2 games on Saturday, September 26 after beating the Tigers 3 straight in a 4-game home series against their rival. Detroit avoided the sweep on Sunday and finished 6-2 to win by two games. Toronto goes 0-7 over the last 8 days. MVP (?) George Bell goes 3-27 in that span, while MVP runnerup SS Alan Trammell was 14-36. For Sep/Oct Tram put up a slash line of .417/.490/.677 only to lose the award to a freaking DH. #nopenotbitter #screwjob
1993 NL West - Legit contender for the greatest pennant race of all-time. Braves come from 10 back but it’s not like the Baker-Bonds led Giants collapsed. The Braves were off the division lead by 10 games on July 23 but they went 49-16 in their final 65 games.
With a staff led by Cy Young winners Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, and former NLCS MVP Steve Avery, Atlanta first won an incredible 30 of 36 games to catch the Giants and even establish a four-game lead with 14 games left.
But the race wasn’t over.
The Giants then turned the tables winning 14 of 16 to force a tie heading into the final game of the season.
Insane final day. The Braves completed a 3-game sweep of the Rockies, then stood in centerfield as a team watching the Dodgers destroy the Giants 12-1 on the Jumbotron while their 49K fans kept doing The Chop.
1995 AL West - Insane final day you say? On August 2, the Mariners trailed the California Angels by 13 games and were three games under .500. But the Mariners went 35-20 while the Angels went 22-33 in the final 55 games as Seattle caught the Halos. In the Monday playoff the Big Unit struck out 12 and pitched 8 shutout innings while his teammates erupted for 4 runs in the 7th & 8th innings, winning by a final of 9-1.
2011 AL East/Wild Card - Boston started it’s roller-coaster 2011 season with six straight losses and was 2–10 on April 15, before catching fire. The Red Sox won 70 of 103 games to take an 11-game lead over Tampa Bay on Aug. 9 in the wild card race, and a two–and-a-half-game lead over New York in the division.
As quick as they were hot though, they suddenly were not. September saw the Red Sox struggle to a 7–20 mark and pitching was the main culprit.
Ace starter Josh Beckett struggled through injuries and yielded a 5.48 ERA in four September starts. Jon Lester was even worse with a 5.40 ERA in six starts. John Lackey (12–12 record, 6.41 ERA in 28 total starts) was off all season and Clay Buchholz (6–3 record, 3.48 ERA) missed the entire second half of the season with a back injury.
Still the Red Sox were tied with the Rays (at 90–71) for the lone wild card spot (New York won the division) heading into the final, dramatic day of the season.
On that day, Boston actually led the Orioles 3–2 heading into the bottom of the ninth, before things unraveled. A quality start from Jon Lester (six innings, two runs allowed) was wasted when normally dependable closer Jonathan Papelbon allowed two runs in the ninth to lose the game.
But 967 miles south, Tampa Bay was on the ropes losing the Yankees 7–0 heading into the bottom of the eighth. With nothing to gain, Joe Girardi pulled his starters, and the Rays rallied for six runs to pull within one. Then with two out in the bottom of the ninth, pinch hitter Dan Johnson hit a dramatic solo home run to extend the game, which Tampa Bay finally won in the 12th, thus eliminating the Red Sox.
Mariano Rivera available, nope, it’s Beantown, so #### off #soxnation.
________________________
Growing up I loved seasonal diaries like Ball Four and Behind the Mask. Most baseball autobiographies & biographies I read were, in retrospect, kind of lame. One notable exception was Bob Gibson’s mid-career From Ghetto to Glory. In addition to being the baddest man in baseball, he was able to articulate his story incredibly well (in addition to writing on a myriad of topics.) My favorite chapter, by far, was the 20 pages or so he devoted to the incredible 1964 National League pennant race.
When I think about the former National Pastime...pre-globalization, pre-internet, pre-microwave, when leisure time was more highly valued...the Pennant Race was a National Obsession.
Baseball, as the only untimed team sport in North America, just hits different than other games. In hindsight, the category for Greatest Moment should have recognized that fact.
Have a great Fourth everyone!
______________________________
**irrelevant but AMAZING sidebar to the end of the Drysdale streak. The Cardinals became the first team to score off him in a month, and in the same game Bob Gibson saw his concurrent 47 consecutive scoreless streak snapped. During June & July that year, Gibson pitched 12 consecutive complete games, going 12-0 with 8 shutouts and an ERA of 0.50 (he allowed only 6 ER in 108 innings.) The middle 10 starts:
10-0, 90 IP, 51 H, 0 HR, 75 K, 12 BB, 2 ER, 0.20 ERA
1908 AL - While the NL was staging their dramatic pennant race, the American League had a barnburner of their own. On October 5, with just a few days left in the season, the Tigers led the Indians and Sox by 1/2 game. The Tigers, led by 21-year old batting star Ty Cobb, lost the first two games of a three-game series to Chiacgo before winning on the final day of the season, 7-0. They won the pennant by a half-game because there was no rule at that time that teams had to make up games that were rained out or called by darkness. More than 100 years later, it remains the closest pennant race finish in history.
1914 NL - The Miracle (Boston) Braves were 15 games out of first place on July 6 but went on to go 68-19 in the final half of the season and won the pennant by 10 games.
1915 AL - Once again the Tigers and Cobb found themselves in a pennant chase with a rival. The Red Sox were a great team led by a talented pitching staff that included Smoky Joe Wood, Ernie Shore, Rube Foster, Carl Mays, Dutch Leonard, and Babe Ruth. In a game between the two teams in September, Cobb was nearly attacked by a mob at Fenway Park when he threw his bat at Mays after being hit by a pitch. The Tigers won that game, but lost the next three at Boston to fall back. Boston won the pennant with 101 victories, while Detroit became the first club to win 100 games and not finish in first place.
1920 AL - the Black Sox scandal broke in the waning days of the season. 1/2 game out of first, 7 players still with Chicago are suspended with a week left in the season.
1930 NL - The Cards were 12 games out of first place on August 9 and only one game over .500. But they won 39 of their final 49 and claimed the pennant by two games over the Cubs.
1934 NL - When asked his opinion of the crosstown Dodgers in the middle of the ’34 season, New York Giants manager Bill Terry quipped, “Is Brooklyn still in the league?” Those words came back to bite Terry when the Dodgers beat his club in the last two games of the season to deny them the pennant. The Giants needed only to win one of those two games to clinch at least a tie, but Brooklyn, charged by Terry’s words pounded the G-Men 5-1 on Saturday and won 8-5 in extra innings on Sunday. Meanwhile, the Cardinals went 13-2 down the stretch to steal the flag by a single game. The Cards were led by the Brothers Dean (Dizzy and Paul), who won eight of those 13 games and saved another.
1938 NL - The Bucs seemed to have a solid grip on first place from late July until mid-September, but then they faltered while the hard-charging Cubs refused to lose. Chicago went 17-3 starting in September 4 to inch within 1 1/2 games of Pittsburgh. The two met in a crucial three-game set at Wrigley Field starting on September 27. Chicago won the first game 2-1, behind Dizzy Dean. The next day the two teams were knotted in the bottom of the 9th innings as late afternoon darkness descended upon lightless Wrigley. The umps ruled that the 9th would be the final inning and if the game were tied it would have to be replayed the next day. Cubs catcher Gabby Hartnett was batting with two outs and an 0-2 count when he turned on a fastball from Mace Brown and belted a homer into the left field bleachers for a dramatic walk-off win. The Cubs were in first place, the stunned Pirates lost the next day, and also lost three of four to the Reds to finish the season in second place, two games back of the Cubs. “Homer in the Gloamin”
1942 NL - Cardinals pull off another late season miracle. This time St. Louis trailed by 10 games on August 5. But the Redbirds won 44 of their last 53 and overtook the Dodgers for the NL crown.
1948 AL - Like the 1908 NL race, this one featured three excellent teams with many stars. The Indians were led by Bob Feller and shortstop/manager Lou Boudreau; the Red Sox had Ted Williams and Bobby Doerr; while the Yanks relied on Joe DiMaggio and Ypgi Berra. All would later earn spots in the Hall of Fame, and they played key roles in this pennant drama. With a week left, all three teams were tied with a 91-56 record. The Indians won four straight (two of them victories by Feller) to move two games ahead. But when they lost two of three to Detroit while the Red Sox swept the Yankees in the final weekend, it left Cleveland and Boston tied atop the standings. For the first time in history, a one-game playoff was needed to decide the pennant. Played at Fenway Park on October 4, the Indians crushed the BoSox 8-3, behind two homers by Boudreau.
1949 AL - Anyone who thinks Roger Kahn’s Boys of Summer is the quintessential baseball book has obviously never read David Halberstam’s timeless Summer of ‘49.
This time the Yankees didn’t fade at the end as they had the previous season. With two games to go, the Yankees trailed the Red Sox by one game as the two teams met at Yankee Stadium. The Yanks rallied from a 4-0 deficit to beat the Sox in the first game, with Johnny Lindell’s homer in the 8th inning providing the winning margin in a 5-4 victory. In the finale, the game was 1-0 until the Yanks erupted for four runs in the 8th inning to forge a 5-0 advantage. Boston manager Joe McCarthy (who had guided the Yanks to several pennants as their skipper), was criticized for using three pitchers in that inning, one of them the injured Tex Hughson. The strange decision proved costly when the Sox scored three runs and had the tying run at the plate in the ninth, only to lose, 5-3. The Yanks won the pennant and went on to win the first of their record five straight World Series titles.
1951 NL - The Giants trailed the Dodgers by 13 games on August 12 but went 38-7 in their final 45 games (including 16 straight) to force a playoff with Brooklyn. The NL scheduled a best-of-three series for the first time to decide the pennant. The Dodgers won the first game at Ebbets Field, but the Giants won Game Two in a 10-0 rout. New York trailed Game Three by two runs in the bottom of the ninth when Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard 'Round the World" 3-run HR gave the Giants the walk-off win. Radio broadcaster Russ Hodges can still be heard shouting "The Giants win the pennant, the Giants win the pennant!"
1962 NL - As in ’51, the Giants stalked the Dodgers and caught them in September, but this time with both teams on the west coast. This time the Giants came from 5 1/2 games back in early August, winning 6 of 7 head-to-head with LA. The two teams finished tied again at the end of the regular schedule (each with 101 wins) and were forced to play a three game series. The Giants pummeled Sandy Koufax to win Game One, 8-0. In the second game, the Dodgers speedster Maury Wills scored on a sacrifice fly by Ron Fairly to win in the bottom of the ninth, 8-7, forcing a third contest. Playing at Dodger Stadium, the Giants trailed 4-2 to in the 9th inning. But Willie Mays and Orlando Cepeda delivered RBIs to tie the game and the go-ahead run scored on a bases-loaded walk to Jim Davenport by reliever Stan Williams. The Giamts tacked on another run to stun LA and win the pennant, 6-4.
1964 NL - The Bob Gibson-led Cardinals were 11 games out on as late as August 24 but went 28-11 in their final 39 games to capture the Pennant. Most great pennant races include one team collapsing. Nothing tops the Phillies blowing a 6-1/2 game lead with 12 to play by losing 10 in a row.
1967 AL - Red Sox Impossible Dream - 9th to 1st, Longburg won 22 and the Cy Young, Yaz goes 10-13 the final weekend to sew up the Triple Crown & MVP. Boston never spent a day in solo first, only were tied six times in September (true 4-team race), won the pennant by one with the lowest percentage (92-70) in history up until then.
The entire second half of the season four teams shifted around at the top of the standings. On September 18, three teams were tied in first and the fourth team was just one half-game back. Eventually - but not until the final Thursday of the season - the White Sox faded, leaving the Twins, Red Sox, and Tigers to duke it out. After several of their games had been rained out, the Tigers were forced to play doubleheaders on Saturday and Sunday to finish their schedule. Meanwhile, Minnesota battled Boston in Fenway Park. The Tigers split their Saturday twinbill with the Angels while Boston beat the Twins to move into a tie. Detroit trailed by a half-game and needed to win both games on Sunday to force a one-game playoff with whichever team won in Boston. The Red Sox scored five runs in the sixth to erase a 2-0 Minnesota lead and held on to win 5-3, eliminating the Twins. Detroit won their first game, and led game two 3-1 in the second inning before the Angels jumped on Denny McLain and four subsequent relievers for seven runs in three innings. The Tigers lost 8-5, as **** McAuliffe into a double play (the only one he grounded into all year!) in the 9th with two runners on base.
#iamnotbitter #notatall
1969 NL East - Miracle Mets. On August 14, the New York Mets trailed the Chicago Cubs by 10 games in the NL East standings. While it was amazing - 38-11 finish to vault past the Cubs and win the division by 8 - the story isn’t so much the comeback as how unexpected it was. New York had lost 100 games 5 of their first 7 seasons, never finishing higher than 9th.The Mets would go on the claim the World Series in five games over the Orioles.
1978 AL East - The Yankees trailed by 14 games in the AL East on July 19. But the Bronx Bombers won 52 of their remaining 73 games and Bucky effing Dent's game-winning home run in the one-game tie breaker with the Red Sox gave New York the division.
1981 MLB - after a labor dispute wipes out 1/3 of the season, the owners decide to play split seasons. Cincinnati missed the playoffs despite having the best record in MLB.
1987 AL East - shades of 1964, the Blue Jays were up 3-1/2 games on Saturday, September 26 after beating the Tigers 3 straight in a 4-game home series against their rival. Detroit avoided the sweep on Sunday and finished 6-2 to win by two games. Toronto goes 0-7 over the last 8 days. MVP (?) George Bell goes 3-27 in that span, while MVP runnerup SS Alan Trammell was 14-36. For Sep/Oct Tram put up a slash line of .417/.490/.677 only to lose the award to a freaking DH. #nopenotbitter #screwjob
1993 NL West - Legit contender for the greatest pennant race of all-time. Braves come from 10 back but it’s not like the Baker-Bonds led Giants collapsed. The Braves were off the division lead by 10 games on July 23 but they went 49-16 in their final 65 games.
With a staff led by Cy Young winners Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, and former NLCS MVP Steve Avery, Atlanta first won an incredible 30 of 36 games to catch the Giants and even establish a four-game lead with 14 games left.
But the race wasn’t over.
The Giants then turned the tables winning 14 of 16 to force a tie heading into the final game of the season.
Insane final day. The Braves completed a 3-game sweep of the Rockies, then stood in centerfield as a team watching the Dodgers destroy the Giants 12-1 on the Jumbotron while their 49K fans kept doing The Chop.
1995 AL West - Insane final day you say? On August 2, the Mariners trailed the California Angels by 13 games and were three games under .500. But the Mariners went 35-20 while the Angels went 22-33 in the final 55 games as Seattle caught the Halos. In the Monday playoff the Big Unit struck out 12 and pitched 8 shutout innings while his teammates erupted for 4 runs in the 7th & 8th innings, winning by a final of 9-1.
2011 AL East/Wild Card - Boston started it’s roller-coaster 2011 season with six straight losses and was 2–10 on April 15, before catching fire. The Red Sox won 70 of 103 games to take an 11-game lead over Tampa Bay on Aug. 9 in the wild card race, and a two–and-a-half-game lead over New York in the division.
As quick as they were hot though, they suddenly were not. September saw the Red Sox struggle to a 7–20 mark and pitching was the main culprit.
Ace starter Josh Beckett struggled through injuries and yielded a 5.48 ERA in four September starts. Jon Lester was even worse with a 5.40 ERA in six starts. John Lackey (12–12 record, 6.41 ERA in 28 total starts) was off all season and Clay Buchholz (6–3 record, 3.48 ERA) missed the entire second half of the season with a back injury.
Still the Red Sox were tied with the Rays (at 90–71) for the lone wild card spot (New York won the division) heading into the final, dramatic day of the season.
On that day, Boston actually led the Orioles 3–2 heading into the bottom of the ninth, before things unraveled. A quality start from Jon Lester (six innings, two runs allowed) was wasted when normally dependable closer Jonathan Papelbon allowed two runs in the ninth to lose the game.
But 967 miles south, Tampa Bay was on the ropes losing the Yankees 7–0 heading into the bottom of the eighth. With nothing to gain, Joe Girardi pulled his starters, and the Rays rallied for six runs to pull within one. Then with two out in the bottom of the ninth, pinch hitter Dan Johnson hit a dramatic solo home run to extend the game, which Tampa Bay finally won in the 12th, thus eliminating the Red Sox.
Mariano Rivera available, nope, it’s Beantown, so #### off #soxnation.
________________________
Growing up I loved seasonal diaries like Ball Four and Behind the Mask. Most baseball autobiographies & biographies I read were, in retrospect, kind of lame. One notable exception was Bob Gibson’s mid-career From Ghetto to Glory. In addition to being the baddest man in baseball, he was able to articulate his story incredibly well (in addition to writing on a myriad of topics.) My favorite chapter, by far, was the 20 pages or so he devoted to the incredible 1964 National League pennant race.
When I think about the former National Pastime...pre-globalization, pre-internet, pre-microwave, when leisure time was more highly valued...the Pennant Race was a National Obsession.
Baseball, as the only untimed team sport in North America, just hits different than other games. In hindsight, the category for Greatest Moment should have recognized that fact.
Have a great Fourth everyone!
______________________________
**irrelevant but AMAZING sidebar to the end of the Drysdale streak. The Cardinals became the first team to score off him in a month, and in the same game Bob Gibson saw his concurrent 47 consecutive scoreless streak snapped. During June & July that year, Gibson pitched 12 consecutive complete games, going 12-0 with 8 shutouts and an ERA of 0.50 (he allowed only 6 ER in 108 innings.) The middle 10 starts:
10-0, 90 IP, 51 H, 0 HR, 75 K, 12 BB, 2 ER, 0.20 ERA
Last edited by a moderator:
zazale
Footballguy
This is the MEN'S SPORTS - Greatest soccer team category CONTINUED
Right, so I decided that a mathematical formula to measure between national and club teams and between eras is a mistake and would take so long to get statistics on the 200 players I would have to count that I just went on how I felt about the teams and their relative domination. Any more deliberation on these teams and I would just be way overthinking it so I am just going to give the team, a few star players, their best result and maybe a sentence or two (or more).
4) 1998 FRANCE 13 POINTS
Key players: Zinedine Zidane, Didier Deschamps, Fabien Barthez, Marcel Desailly, Lillian Thuram, Emmanuel Petit, Laurent Blanc
Key match: 1998 World Cup final vs Brazil 3-0
Yep Zidane. France either had or beat in the World Cup all players who received 1st place votes in Ballon d'Or 1998 voting except 1/51 for Argentina's Gabriel Batistuta. Zidane had 45 of those 51 votes.
3) 2002 BRAZIL 14 POINTS
Key players: Ronaldo Nazario, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Lucio
Key match: 2002 World Cup final vs Germany 2-0
Yep Ronaldo and Rivaldo and Roberto Carlos. You've probably seen this free kick in 1997.
2) 1970 BRAZIL 15 POINTS
Key players: Pele, Carlos Alberto, Gerson, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Tostao
Key match: 1970 World Cup final vs Italy 4-1
Like 2002 Brazil but for boomers who think the younger generations had it easier.
1) 2008/09 BARCELONA 16 POINTS
Key players: Lionel Messi, Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, Samuel Eto'o, Thierry Henry, Yaya Toure, Dani Alves, Carles Puyol, Gerard Pique, Sergio Busquets
Key match: 2009 Champions League semifinal second leg at Chelsea 1-1 (winner on away goals)
They sold Ronaldinho, Deco and Zambrotta and this team was still ####### crazy. They did the sextuple, winning the UEFA Supercup, Supercopa de España, FIFA Club World Cup, Copa del Rey, UEFA Champions League and La Liga in the same season. Tiki-taka. Total football but EVEN MORE TOTAL. Seriously. Read the article.
Right, so I decided that a mathematical formula to measure between national and club teams and between eras is a mistake and would take so long to get statistics on the 200 players I would have to count that I just went on how I felt about the teams and their relative domination. Any more deliberation on these teams and I would just be way overthinking it so I am just going to give the team, a few star players, their best result and maybe a sentence or two (or more).
4) 1998 FRANCE 13 POINTS
Key players: Zinedine Zidane, Didier Deschamps, Fabien Barthez, Marcel Desailly, Lillian Thuram, Emmanuel Petit, Laurent Blanc
Key match: 1998 World Cup final vs Brazil 3-0
Yep Zidane. France either had or beat in the World Cup all players who received 1st place votes in Ballon d'Or 1998 voting except 1/51 for Argentina's Gabriel Batistuta. Zidane had 45 of those 51 votes.
3) 2002 BRAZIL 14 POINTS
Key players: Ronaldo Nazario, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, Lucio
Key match: 2002 World Cup final vs Germany 2-0
Yep Ronaldo and Rivaldo and Roberto Carlos. You've probably seen this free kick in 1997.
2) 1970 BRAZIL 15 POINTS
Key players: Pele, Carlos Alberto, Gerson, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Tostao
Key match: 1970 World Cup final vs Italy 4-1
Like 2002 Brazil but for boomers who think the younger generations had it easier.
1) 2008/09 BARCELONA 16 POINTS
Key players: Lionel Messi, Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, Samuel Eto'o, Thierry Henry, Yaya Toure, Dani Alves, Carles Puyol, Gerard Pique, Sergio Busquets
Key match: 2009 Champions League semifinal second leg at Chelsea 1-1 (winner on away goals)
They sold Ronaldinho, Deco and Zambrotta and this team was still ####### crazy. They did the sextuple, winning the UEFA Supercup, Supercopa de España, FIFA Club World Cup, Copa del Rey, UEFA Champions League and La Liga in the same season. Tiki-taka. Total football but EVEN MORE TOTAL. Seriously. Read the article.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Standings after ZaZale ranked Men's Soccer teams -
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--516--5--6--5=16 (silver)
2 --AAABatteries--492--3--3--7=13
3 --tuffnutt--490--5--1--7=13
4 --Gally--483--3--1--3=7
5 --Ilov80s--479--3--4--1=8
6 --Getzlaf15--479--1--8--4=13
7 --otb_lifer--476--2--3--5=10
8 --joffer--473--5--4--2=11
9 --DougB--469--6--2--2=10
10 -Jagov--455--4--7--1=12 (gold)
11 -Long Ball Larry--452--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--410--3--3--3=9
13 -wikkidpissah--409--2--2--5=9 (bronze)
14 -higgins--405--2--1--2=5
15 -jwb--391--2--4--2=8
16 -Kal El--329--4--2--0=6
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--516--5--6--5=16 (silver)
2 --AAABatteries--492--3--3--7=13
3 --tuffnutt--490--5--1--7=13
4 --Gally--483--3--1--3=7
5 --Ilov80s--479--3--4--1=8
6 --Getzlaf15--479--1--8--4=13
7 --otb_lifer--476--2--3--5=10
8 --joffer--473--5--4--2=11
9 --DougB--469--6--2--2=10
10 -Jagov--455--4--7--1=12 (gold)
11 -Long Ball Larry--452--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--410--3--3--3=9
13 -wikkidpissah--409--2--2--5=9 (bronze)
14 -higgins--405--2--1--2=5
15 -jwb--391--2--4--2=8
16 -Kal El--329--4--2--0=6
Last edited by a moderator:
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
ZaZale is working on Greatest Soccer Off Player
I've finished 2 cats. Have 4 more to go. I'm shooting for a reveal of all my six CATS Wed or Thur nite.
I'll post as I knock each one down.
Plan for the next four is to do them Sunday night, then Monday morning, then Tuesday night, then Wednesday mid-day to finish the four based on my schedule. The one Sunday night is the one I'm most worried about getting done on time.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
16 days in the hole over!
It was intersting trying to decide if the judging would be over before I got out or not.
Judges continue to do an awesome job, especially on Tim's picks.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I thought you guys would be more excited about me getting out of the hole. 
I think Woz has this thing wrapped up.
I think Woz has this thing wrapped up.
krista4
Footballguy
This feels like a TWSS, but I just can't quite make it work.I thought you guys would be more excited about me getting out of the hole.
We figured you would bring us flowers from your garden....I thought you guys would be more excited about me getting out of the hole.
I think Woz has this thing wrapped up.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I liked it, but what's a TWSS? Is that like SWAK, only more mulch-inspired?krista4 said:
And GB all the judges in here again. Sorry for my non-contribution. You guys are holding the fort down excellently.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Oh thank goD AAAbatteries is back! I was about to petition Joe to just shut the whole site down! This day is a gift, the likes of which we have never seen. Hallelujah! Praise the lord!
AAABatteries
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I hope you get hemorrhoids
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
I'm getting kinda antsy here to see if I'll hang on or if Russell Baze will cost me this draft...
Baze is just kicking the horse down the back stretch......you will win going away and it won't be close. I am just hoping I can catch a second wind and pull out the silver. My last 7 picks have had negative value compared to where I drafted them. It's been tough to watch.....hahahah. I think it will be close for 2nd through 5th ish. Although Getzlaf holds his fate in his own hands...hahahaha
krista4
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
It wasn't the "She hates these masks" comment, was it? I forgot who that waszazale said:
zazale
Footballguy
This is the MEN'S SPORTS - Greatest soccer player (non goalie) of all time.
The point ranking system is as follows and it applies to 10 of the 16 players:
INTERNATIONAL CAPS international caps * an arbitrary modifier that I assigned between 1-5 for the strength of the national team he played on at the time * 0.012 + INTERNATIONAL COMPETITIONS world cup wins * 5 + world cup runner ups * 2.5 + world cup 3rd place * 1.5 + world cup selections + european championship wins * 2 + DOMESTIC/CONTINENTAL COMPETITIONS champions league/european cup wins + europa league/uefa cup wins * 0.6 + domestic titles * 0.8 + domestic major cup wins * 0.3 + RANKINGS ballon d'Or wins * 8 + ballon d'Or 2nd place * 5 ballon d'Or 3rd place * 3.5 + ballon d'Or 4th place * 2.5 + ballon d'Or 5th place * 2 + ballon d'Or other top 10 * 1.2
The 6 players the ranking system doesn't apply to are Pele and Diego Maradona because the Ballon d'Or did not recognize non-european players until 1995 and the revisionist Ballon d'Or rankings by the France Football magazine in 2016 do not have full voting but they reawarded Pele 7 Ballon d'Ors and Maradona 2. Pele and Maradona will be judged on a mixture of personal opinion and where they were ranked on the non Ballon d'Or categories relative to the other players. David Beckham, Roberto Baggio, George Best and Paolo Maldini also do not apply because they were already ranked by the original ranker of this category in @Ramsay Hunt Experience so I will rank them as they did ending on page 95 of this thread.
16) DAVID BECKHAM 1 POINT
15) ROBERTO BAGGIO 2 POINTS
14) GEORGE BEST 3 POINTS
13) PAOLO MALDINI 4 POINTS
12) ALFREDO DI STEFANO 5 POINTS INTL CAPS 1.776 + INTL COMPS 2 + DOM/CONT 11.7 + RANKINGS 24.7 = 40.176
11) EUSEBIO 6 POINTS INTL CAPS 2.688 + INTL COMPS 2.5 + DOM/CONT 11.3 + RANKINGS 27.4 = 43.888
10) GERD MULLER 7 POINTS INTL CAPS 3.72 + INTL COMPS 10.5 + DOM/CONT 7.4 + RANKINGS 24.8 = 46.42
9) DIEGO MARADONA 8 POINTS INTL CAPS 4.86 + INTL COMPS 11.5 + DOM/CONT 3.6 + RANKINGS 0 = 19.96
ZINEDINE ZIDANE 9 POINTS INTL CAPS 6.48 + INTL COMPS 12.5 + DOM/CONT 3.4 + RANKINGS 24.2 = 46.58
7) MICHEL PLATINI 10 POINTS INTL CAPS 3.888 + INTL COMPS 6.5 + DOM/CONT 4 + RANKINGS 38.7 = 53.088
6) RONALDO NAZARIO 11 POINTS INTL CAPS 5.88 + INTL COMPS 20.5 + DOM/CONT 2.8 + RANKINGS 24.5 = 53.68
5) JOHAN CRUYFF 12 POINTS INTL CAPS 2.88 + INTL COMPS 3.5 + DOM/CONT 13.1 + RANKINGS 36.9 = 56.38
4) FRANZ BECKENBAUER 13 POINTS INTL CAPS 6.18 + INTL COMPS 14 + DOM/CONT 8.2 + RANKINGS 42.7 = 71.08
3) CRISTIANO RONALDO 14 POINTS INTL CAPS 8.856 + INTL COMPS 6 + DOM/CONT 11.3 + RANKINGS 74.7 = 100.856
2) LIONEL MESSI 15 POINTS INTL CAPS 8.28 + INTL COMPS 6.5 + DOM/CONT 13.8 + RANKINGS 78.5 = 107.08
1) PELE 16 POINTS INTL CAPS 5.58 + INTL COMPS 19 + DOM/CONT 5.4 + RANKINGS 0 = 29.98
On the 7 revisionist Ballon d'Ors alone Pele would have 94 points. This does not count 1962 where Garrincha won and Pele easily would have been top 3 in voting and any year between 1965 and 1970 where he would have placed top 10 multiple times and probably gotten at least another 20-30 points in my rankings system. https://www.francefootball.fr/hors-serie/ for the complete list of revisionist Ballon d'Ors.
I also realize Maradona at 9 is an extremely hot take but with the 2 Ballon d'Ors and the voting placings he would have gotten I think his point total in my rankings would be between 6th and 10th place or 45 and 55 points. WARNING HOT TAKE AHEAD: I don't think a handball goal in a World Cup quarterfinal in a game you would probably have lost otherwise merits you higher than 9th all time.
Zidane is also an unfortunate casualty of the ranking system and the players he had to compete against for the Ballon d'Or in his prime years, most notably Ronaldo Nazario, David Beckham and Luis Figo.
I still unironically think Cristiano Ronaldo is a better overall player than Messi from watching them for a decade; CR7 can carry his team harder and is absolutely unmatched physically, while Messi is certainly a more intelligent and aware attacker and all 3 of him, CR7 and Pele are in their own league in history.
The point ranking system is as follows and it applies to 10 of the 16 players:
INTERNATIONAL CAPS international caps * an arbitrary modifier that I assigned between 1-5 for the strength of the national team he played on at the time * 0.012 + INTERNATIONAL COMPETITIONS world cup wins * 5 + world cup runner ups * 2.5 + world cup 3rd place * 1.5 + world cup selections + european championship wins * 2 + DOMESTIC/CONTINENTAL COMPETITIONS champions league/european cup wins + europa league/uefa cup wins * 0.6 + domestic titles * 0.8 + domestic major cup wins * 0.3 + RANKINGS ballon d'Or wins * 8 + ballon d'Or 2nd place * 5 ballon d'Or 3rd place * 3.5 + ballon d'Or 4th place * 2.5 + ballon d'Or 5th place * 2 + ballon d'Or other top 10 * 1.2
The 6 players the ranking system doesn't apply to are Pele and Diego Maradona because the Ballon d'Or did not recognize non-european players until 1995 and the revisionist Ballon d'Or rankings by the France Football magazine in 2016 do not have full voting but they reawarded Pele 7 Ballon d'Ors and Maradona 2. Pele and Maradona will be judged on a mixture of personal opinion and where they were ranked on the non Ballon d'Or categories relative to the other players. David Beckham, Roberto Baggio, George Best and Paolo Maldini also do not apply because they were already ranked by the original ranker of this category in @Ramsay Hunt Experience so I will rank them as they did ending on page 95 of this thread.
16) DAVID BECKHAM 1 POINT
15) ROBERTO BAGGIO 2 POINTS
14) GEORGE BEST 3 POINTS
13) PAOLO MALDINI 4 POINTS
12) ALFREDO DI STEFANO 5 POINTS INTL CAPS 1.776 + INTL COMPS 2 + DOM/CONT 11.7 + RANKINGS 24.7 = 40.176
11) EUSEBIO 6 POINTS INTL CAPS 2.688 + INTL COMPS 2.5 + DOM/CONT 11.3 + RANKINGS 27.4 = 43.888
10) GERD MULLER 7 POINTS INTL CAPS 3.72 + INTL COMPS 10.5 + DOM/CONT 7.4 + RANKINGS 24.8 = 46.42
9) DIEGO MARADONA 8 POINTS INTL CAPS 4.86 + INTL COMPS 11.5 + DOM/CONT 3.6 + RANKINGS 0 = 19.96
ZINEDINE ZIDANE 9 POINTS INTL CAPS 6.48 + INTL COMPS 12.5 + DOM/CONT 3.4 + RANKINGS 24.2 = 46.587) MICHEL PLATINI 10 POINTS INTL CAPS 3.888 + INTL COMPS 6.5 + DOM/CONT 4 + RANKINGS 38.7 = 53.088
6) RONALDO NAZARIO 11 POINTS INTL CAPS 5.88 + INTL COMPS 20.5 + DOM/CONT 2.8 + RANKINGS 24.5 = 53.68
5) JOHAN CRUYFF 12 POINTS INTL CAPS 2.88 + INTL COMPS 3.5 + DOM/CONT 13.1 + RANKINGS 36.9 = 56.38
4) FRANZ BECKENBAUER 13 POINTS INTL CAPS 6.18 + INTL COMPS 14 + DOM/CONT 8.2 + RANKINGS 42.7 = 71.08
3) CRISTIANO RONALDO 14 POINTS INTL CAPS 8.856 + INTL COMPS 6 + DOM/CONT 11.3 + RANKINGS 74.7 = 100.856
2) LIONEL MESSI 15 POINTS INTL CAPS 8.28 + INTL COMPS 6.5 + DOM/CONT 13.8 + RANKINGS 78.5 = 107.08
1) PELE 16 POINTS INTL CAPS 5.58 + INTL COMPS 19 + DOM/CONT 5.4 + RANKINGS 0 = 29.98
On the 7 revisionist Ballon d'Ors alone Pele would have 94 points. This does not count 1962 where Garrincha won and Pele easily would have been top 3 in voting and any year between 1965 and 1970 where he would have placed top 10 multiple times and probably gotten at least another 20-30 points in my rankings system. https://www.francefootball.fr/hors-serie/ for the complete list of revisionist Ballon d'Ors.
I also realize Maradona at 9 is an extremely hot take but with the 2 Ballon d'Ors and the voting placings he would have gotten I think his point total in my rankings would be between 6th and 10th place or 45 and 55 points. WARNING HOT TAKE AHEAD: I don't think a handball goal in a World Cup quarterfinal in a game you would probably have lost otherwise merits you higher than 9th all time.
Zidane is also an unfortunate casualty of the ranking system and the players he had to compete against for the Ballon d'Or in his prime years, most notably Ronaldo Nazario, David Beckham and Luis Figo.
I still unironically think Cristiano Ronaldo is a better overall player than Messi from watching them for a decade; CR7 can carry his team harder and is absolutely unmatched physically, while Messi is certainly a more intelligent and aware attacker and all 3 of him, CR7 and Pele are in their own league in history.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
Ok, So my son just gave me his keys. And I finished the last of the six left this morning.
I have randomly numbered the final 6 to be posted from 1 to 6.
If someone wants to give me a random set of numbers that include 1 thru six, I'll post them in that order.
@Gally
I have randomly numbered the final 6 to be posted from 1 to 6.
If someone wants to give me a random set of numbers that include 1 thru six, I'll post them in that order.
@Gally
Last edited by a moderator:
zazale
Footballguy
Standings after Zazale ranked Greatest (non-goalie) soccer players. Things get a little tighter here!!!
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--518--5--6--5=16
2 --AAABatteries--507--3--4--7=14 (silver)
3 --tuffnutt--495--5--1--7=13
4 --Getzlaf15--493--1--8--5=14 (bronze)
5 --Gally--492--3--1--3=7
6 --Ilov80s--491--3--4--1=8
7 --otb_lifer--483--2--3--5=10
8 --joffer--481--5--4--2=11
9 --DougB--475--6--2--2=10
10 -Long Ball Larry--463--3--2--4=9
11 -Jagov--459--4--7--1=12
12 -timschochet--426--4--3--3=10 (gold)
13 -higgins--415--2--1--2=5
14 -wikkidpissah--412--2--2--5=9
15 -jwb--404--2--4--2=8
16 -Kal El--330--4--2--0=6
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--518--5--6--5=16
2 --AAABatteries--507--3--4--7=14 (silver)
3 --tuffnutt--495--5--1--7=13
4 --Getzlaf15--493--1--8--5=14 (bronze)
5 --Gally--492--3--1--3=7
6 --Ilov80s--491--3--4--1=8
7 --otb_lifer--483--2--3--5=10
8 --joffer--481--5--4--2=11
9 --DougB--475--6--2--2=10
10 -Long Ball Larry--463--3--2--4=9
11 -Jagov--459--4--7--1=12
12 -timschochet--426--4--3--3=10 (gold)
13 -higgins--415--2--1--2=5
14 -wikkidpissah--412--2--2--5=9
15 -jwb--404--2--4--2=8
16 -Kal El--330--4--2--0=6
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
tuffnutt
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
Ok, first up!!!
Still haven't looked up who picked whom, but no doubt this is the one that is all over the place. I wrote the write ups for each one as I did them.
NCAA F Greatest Offensive Player
This was a tough category to judge.
Players played 2,3 or 4 years.
Players on the list had no real stats to compare.
Players played in different eras, with limited info and different styles of offenses.
I gave equal weight to the college career and the players best single season. If a guy had both he was ranked higher, especially at RB
Internet lists were not very up-to-date and were all over the place. As I’m sure my rankings will be also!
As a whole, I’ll give us all a grade of F on this category. There were a lot of players that would have been a lot better choices than many of us made.
The most notable to me were:
Case Keenum - he would have medaled for sure.
Kellen Moore - Top 5 or 6. HTF did I miss this one?
Melvin Gordon - Had some amazing seasons at Wisconsin
1 pt - Desmond Howard. One year phenom. Zillion Wr’s have done what he did.
2pts - Dave Rimington. Greatest C of All-time. Nice, but didn’t dominate games the way the other lineman on the list did.
3pts - Tommie Frazier. Stats are pretty horrible. Did win two Nat titles.
4 pts - Doak Walker. Stats not super impressive write ups on him were solid.
5 pts - Ernie Davis. Stats a grade above Walker’s, but 877 yards for a best season? Really?
6 pts - Johnny Rodgers 2x Nat Champ and All American. Scored 41 TD last 3 years. Played RB, WR and KR and wreaked havoc on defenses and had some stellar games in big wins.
7 pts - Vince Young Big game vs USC. Blah, blah, blah. Overrated. Stats are not great.
8 pts - Tim Tebow Last three years of career comparison to Young
83 passing TD to Young’s 44.
8928 passing yards to Young’s 6040
16 INT to Young’s 28
Young out rushed him 3127 to 2488.
49 rushing TD to Young’s 37.
9 pts - Red Grange. Just a stud.
10 pts - OJ Simpson. Had two great years at USC.
11 pts - Archie Griffin. The first of four RB’s left. Only two-time Heisman winner. Total fluke IMO as in 1975, Muncie, Ricky Bell and Dorsett all had much better years in yardage and TD’s.
12 pts - Herschel Walker. Was 17th all time rushing to Griffin’s 10th, but had 52 TD to Griffin’s 28. How do they give a Heisman to someone that had only 4 rushing TD? His best season was better than Archie’s also.
13 pts - Tony Dorsett. 398 yards and 6 more rushing TD than Walker’s best season. 2nd all time in rushing yards. Best Heisman finish was only 4th though.
14 pts - Orlando Pace - Everything I read said this guy flat out dominated games in college and in the pros. 2x Lombardi and Outland, Started as a Freshman at Ohio St.. Only 2 time Lomabrdi ever, 3 time All American.
15 pts - Joe Burrow.
Tebow AND V.Young’s COMBINED passing stats from their best year.
425-639 66.5% 5931 yds 47TD 164.0 passer rating
Burrow’s stats for 2019
402-527 76.3% 5671 yds 60 TD 202.0 passer rating
The 60 TD’s is the most for a season ever and he ran for 5 more (One more than Griffin ran for when he won second Heisman)
5671 yards [passing is third all time for a season. Both of these stats are insanely impressive when you look at the all time lists for both.
16 pts - Ricky Williams, Jr. Had three dominating seasons. 4th in all-time rushing yards. Had many more TD’s than the other RB’s on the list. His 27 in 1998 was tops on the list for RB. His 72 career rushing TD were 13 more than Dorsett. He also caught 20 passes a season while the other three RB were not thrown to.
Still haven't looked up who picked whom, but no doubt this is the one that is all over the place. I wrote the write ups for each one as I did them.
NCAA F Greatest Offensive Player
This was a tough category to judge.
Players played 2,3 or 4 years.
Players on the list had no real stats to compare.
Players played in different eras, with limited info and different styles of offenses.
I gave equal weight to the college career and the players best single season. If a guy had both he was ranked higher, especially at RB
Internet lists were not very up-to-date and were all over the place. As I’m sure my rankings will be also!
As a whole, I’ll give us all a grade of F on this category. There were a lot of players that would have been a lot better choices than many of us made.
The most notable to me were:
Case Keenum - he would have medaled for sure.
Kellen Moore - Top 5 or 6. HTF did I miss this one?
Melvin Gordon - Had some amazing seasons at Wisconsin
1 pt - Desmond Howard. One year phenom. Zillion Wr’s have done what he did.
2pts - Dave Rimington. Greatest C of All-time. Nice, but didn’t dominate games the way the other lineman on the list did.
3pts - Tommie Frazier. Stats are pretty horrible. Did win two Nat titles.
4 pts - Doak Walker. Stats not super impressive write ups on him were solid.
5 pts - Ernie Davis. Stats a grade above Walker’s, but 877 yards for a best season? Really?
6 pts - Johnny Rodgers 2x Nat Champ and All American. Scored 41 TD last 3 years. Played RB, WR and KR and wreaked havoc on defenses and had some stellar games in big wins.
7 pts - Vince Young Big game vs USC. Blah, blah, blah. Overrated. Stats are not great.
8 pts - Tim Tebow Last three years of career comparison to Young
83 passing TD to Young’s 44.
8928 passing yards to Young’s 6040
16 INT to Young’s 28
Young out rushed him 3127 to 2488.
49 rushing TD to Young’s 37.
9 pts - Red Grange. Just a stud.
10 pts - OJ Simpson. Had two great years at USC.
11 pts - Archie Griffin. The first of four RB’s left. Only two-time Heisman winner. Total fluke IMO as in 1975, Muncie, Ricky Bell and Dorsett all had much better years in yardage and TD’s.
12 pts - Herschel Walker. Was 17th all time rushing to Griffin’s 10th, but had 52 TD to Griffin’s 28. How do they give a Heisman to someone that had only 4 rushing TD? His best season was better than Archie’s also.
13 pts - Tony Dorsett. 398 yards and 6 more rushing TD than Walker’s best season. 2nd all time in rushing yards. Best Heisman finish was only 4th though.
14 pts - Orlando Pace - Everything I read said this guy flat out dominated games in college and in the pros. 2x Lombardi and Outland, Started as a Freshman at Ohio St.. Only 2 time Lomabrdi ever, 3 time All American.
15 pts - Joe Burrow.
Tebow AND V.Young’s COMBINED passing stats from their best year.
425-639 66.5% 5931 yds 47TD 164.0 passer rating
Burrow’s stats for 2019
402-527 76.3% 5671 yds 60 TD 202.0 passer rating
The 60 TD’s is the most for a season ever and he ran for 5 more (One more than Griffin ran for when he won second Heisman)
5671 yards [passing is third all time for a season. Both of these stats are insanely impressive when you look at the all time lists for both.
16 pts - Ricky Williams, Jr. Had three dominating seasons. 4th in all-time rushing yards. Had many more TD’s than the other RB’s on the list. His 27 in 1998 was tops on the list for RB. His 72 career rushing TD were 13 more than Dorsett. He also caught 20 passes a season while the other three RB were not thrown to.
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zazale
Footballguy
Standings after NCAA F Greatest Offensive Players were ranked -
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--529--5--6--5=16
2 --AAABatteries--511--3--4--7=14
3 --tuffnutt--507--5--1--7=13
4 --Getzlaf15--499--1--8--5=14
5 --Ilov80s--498--3--4--1=8
6 --Gally--497--3--1--3=7
7 --otb_lifer--496--2--3--5=10
8 --joffer--484--5--4--2=11
9 --DougB--483--6--2--2=10
10 -Jagov--475--5--7--1=13 (gold)
11 -Long Ball Larry--465--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--441--4--4--3=11 (silver)
13 -higgins--424--2--1--2=5
14 -wikkidpissah--422--2--2--5=9
15 -jwb--418--2--4--3=9 (bronze)
16 -Kal El--331--4--2--0=6
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--529--5--6--5=16
2 --AAABatteries--511--3--4--7=14
3 --tuffnutt--507--5--1--7=13
4 --Getzlaf15--499--1--8--5=14
5 --Ilov80s--498--3--4--1=8
6 --Gally--497--3--1--3=7
7 --otb_lifer--496--2--3--5=10
8 --joffer--484--5--4--2=11
9 --DougB--483--6--2--2=10
10 -Jagov--475--5--7--1=13 (gold)
11 -Long Ball Larry--465--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--441--4--4--3=11 (silver)
13 -higgins--424--2--1--2=5
14 -wikkidpissah--422--2--2--5=9
15 -jwb--418--2--4--3=9 (bronze)
16 -Kal El--331--4--2--0=6
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Getz - to your comment about us doing poorly drafting this category - I don’t disagree per se but think it’s because it’s so hard to gauge eras and also styles. Keenum played against average competition and in a crazy system - there’s no way, IMHO, that he’s one of the 16 best college offensive players ever. Just mu thought on it.
Great job by you two though on the rankings. Thanks!
Great job by you two though on the rankings. Thanks!
zazale
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
NFL Greatest TE
Used the standard cast of criteria you’ve come to expect from me. All relatively ranked and weighted appropriately.
Max possible score is 111
1 pt - Aaron Hernandez 25.52 pts. Hard to rack of points when you play only three years and you’re killing people. Odd stat here is he never won a Super Bowl.
2 pts - Jerry Smith 38.07 pts Not to be confused with Jackie Smith.
3 pts - Jackie Smith 41.71 pts Not to be confused with Jerry Smith.
4 pts - Greg Olsen 43.42 pts. Not to be confused with Mrs. Olsen. Ok, I’ll stop.
5 pts - Ozzie Newsome 43.98 pts
6 pts - Dave Casper 50.89 pts
7 pts - Mike Ditka 51.62 pts
8 pts - John Mackey 53.92 pts
9 pts - Jimmy Graham 54.17 pts
10 pts - Travis Kelce 60.69 pts has a chance to crack Top 3 in three years IMO
11 pts - Kellen Winslow, Sr 64.81 pts
12 pts - Jason Witten 69.28 pts
13 pts - Shannon Sharpe 75.32 pts
14 pts - Rob Gronkowski 77.22 pts
15 pts - Antonio Gates 85.88 pts
16 pts - Tony Gonzlaez 106.92 pts
Used the standard cast of criteria you’ve come to expect from me. All relatively ranked and weighted appropriately.
Max possible score is 111
1 pt - Aaron Hernandez 25.52 pts. Hard to rack of points when you play only three years and you’re killing people. Odd stat here is he never won a Super Bowl.
2 pts - Jerry Smith 38.07 pts Not to be confused with Jackie Smith.
3 pts - Jackie Smith 41.71 pts Not to be confused with Jerry Smith.
4 pts - Greg Olsen 43.42 pts. Not to be confused with Mrs. Olsen. Ok, I’ll stop.
5 pts - Ozzie Newsome 43.98 pts
6 pts - Dave Casper 50.89 pts
7 pts - Mike Ditka 51.62 pts
8 pts - John Mackey 53.92 pts
9 pts - Jimmy Graham 54.17 pts
10 pts - Travis Kelce 60.69 pts has a chance to crack Top 3 in three years IMO
11 pts - Kellen Winslow, Sr 64.81 pts
12 pts - Jason Witten 69.28 pts
13 pts - Shannon Sharpe 75.32 pts
14 pts - Rob Gronkowski 77.22 pts
15 pts - Antonio Gates 85.88 pts
16 pts - Tony Gonzlaez 106.92 pts
AAABatteries
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
Standings after NFL TE rankings -
Remember, ties in points are broken first by GOLD medals, then by TOTAL medals.
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--544--5--7--5=17 (silver)
2 --AAABatteries--522--3--4--7=14
3 --tuffnutt--515--5--1--7=13
4 --Gally--506--3--1--3=7
5 --otb_lifer--506--2--3--5=10
6 --Ilov80s--505--3--4--1=8
7 --Getzlaf15--503--1--8--5=14
8 --DougB--499--7--2--2=11 (gold)
9 --joffer--489--5--4--2=11
10 -Jagov--477--5--7--1=13
11 -Long Ball Larry--471--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--455--4--4--4=12 (bronze)
13 -higgins--437--2--1--2=5
14 -wikkidpissah--423--2--2--5=9
15 -jwb--421--2--4--3=9
16 -Kal El--343--4--2--0=6
Remember, ties in points are broken first by GOLD medals, then by TOTAL medals.
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--544--5--7--5=17 (silver)
2 --AAABatteries--522--3--4--7=14
3 --tuffnutt--515--5--1--7=13
4 --Gally--506--3--1--3=7
5 --otb_lifer--506--2--3--5=10
6 --Ilov80s--505--3--4--1=8
7 --Getzlaf15--503--1--8--5=14
8 --DougB--499--7--2--2=11 (gold)
9 --joffer--489--5--4--2=11
10 -Jagov--477--5--7--1=13
11 -Long Ball Larry--471--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--455--4--4--4=12 (bronze)
13 -higgins--437--2--1--2=5
14 -wikkidpissah--423--2--2--5=9
15 -jwb--421--2--4--3=9
16 -Kal El--343--4--2--0=6