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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Mister CIA
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
NHL Greatest Team
A category like this is not possible to judge by crunching stats like I normally do, so I didn’t. I found six Internet lists and I made my own list after reading all team reviews and threw it all in a blender and here’s what we have….
1 pt - 29/30 Boston Bruins Whomever picked this one tried to sneak them in with a 38-5-1 record. Maybe because they thought I’d use win % as a CAT. Nice try!!! Only team on list that didn’t win the Cup.
2 pts - 55/56 Montreal Canadiens
3 pts - 97/98 Detroit Red Wings
4 pts - 74/75 Philadelphia Flyers
5 pts - 69/70 Boston Bruins
6 pts - 86/87 Edmonton Oilers
7 pts - 73/74 Philadelphia Flyers The last 5 teams only appeared on three of the Internet lists.
8 pts - 01/02 Detroit Red Wings. This team was swept by the Mighty Ducks as a #1 seed the following year.
9 pts - 88/89 Calgary Flames
10 pts - 91/92 Pittsburgh Penguins
11 pts - 82/83 New York Islanders Interesting that four Oilers teams were selected and this was the only Islander team.
12 pts - 87/88 Edmonton Oilers
13 pts - 84/85 Edmonton Oilers
14 pts - 83/84 Edmonton Oilers
15 pts - 77/78 Montreal Canadiens
16 pts - 76/77 Montreal Canadiens They averaged to win by like 2.7 goals per game.
A category like this is not possible to judge by crunching stats like I normally do, so I didn’t. I found six Internet lists and I made my own list after reading all team reviews and threw it all in a blender and here’s what we have….
1 pt - 29/30 Boston Bruins Whomever picked this one tried to sneak them in with a 38-5-1 record. Maybe because they thought I’d use win % as a CAT. Nice try!!! Only team on list that didn’t win the Cup.
2 pts - 55/56 Montreal Canadiens
3 pts - 97/98 Detroit Red Wings
4 pts - 74/75 Philadelphia Flyers
5 pts - 69/70 Boston Bruins
6 pts - 86/87 Edmonton Oilers
7 pts - 73/74 Philadelphia Flyers The last 5 teams only appeared on three of the Internet lists.
8 pts - 01/02 Detroit Red Wings. This team was swept by the Mighty Ducks as a #1 seed the following year.
9 pts - 88/89 Calgary Flames
10 pts - 91/92 Pittsburgh Penguins
11 pts - 82/83 New York Islanders Interesting that four Oilers teams were selected and this was the only Islander team.
12 pts - 87/88 Edmonton Oilers
13 pts - 84/85 Edmonton Oilers
14 pts - 83/84 Edmonton Oilers
15 pts - 77/78 Montreal Canadiens
16 pts - 76/77 Montreal Canadiens They averaged to win by like 2.7 goals per game.
timschochet
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
Standings after NHL Greatest Teams were ranked - ONE LEFT!
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--567--5--8--5=18 Congrats Zow!!
2 --AAABatteries--540--3--4--7=14
3 --Getzlaf15--540--1--8--6=15
4 --otb_lifer--534--3--3--5=11 (gold)
5 --Gally--534--3--2--3=8 (silver)
6 --tuffnutt--533--5--1--7=13
7 --DougB--532--7--2--2=11
8 --Ilov80s--525--3--4--1=8
9 --joffer--513--5--4--3=12
10 -Jagov--506--5--7--2=14 (bronze)
11 -Long Ball Larry--501--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--476--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--470--4--1--2=7
14 -jwb--448--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--434--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--371--4--3--0=7
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--567--5--8--5=18 Congrats Zow!!
2 --AAABatteries--540--3--4--7=14
3 --Getzlaf15--540--1--8--6=15
4 --otb_lifer--534--3--3--5=11 (gold)
5 --Gally--534--3--2--3=8 (silver)
6 --tuffnutt--533--5--1--7=13
7 --DougB--532--7--2--2=11
8 --Ilov80s--525--3--4--1=8
9 --joffer--513--5--4--3=12
10 -Jagov--506--5--7--2=14 (bronze)
11 -Long Ball Larry--501--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--476--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--470--4--1--2=7
14 -jwb--448--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--434--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--371--4--3--0=7
zazale
Footballguy
zazale
Footballguy
NHL Greatest Offensive Player
As I gathered the data on all the players to see which criteria to use and how much to weigh them, it became apparent that strictly going by career goals, assists and points would not be the answer.
Half of the players on the list were all-time greats, but played in eras with much less scoring than other players on the list.
It was clear to see that the number of times a player was named 1st or 2nd team NHL separated players that consistently did very well as opposed to the players that did okay and played 22+ years would be the way to go.
I also used how many times a player finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in goals, assists and points in a season as CATS. After doing this, I’m convinced that the top scorers of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s would have scored just as well as those that played in the ‘80’s, had they played in the ‘80’s.
Another CAT I used, was like the AV in football, it’s OPS in NHL. Offensive Point Shares. Players with a score of 7.5 or higher had the elite seasons. The number of 7.5+ seasons a player had was used as a CAT.
Lastly, six players wound up incredibly close in the final point totals. Had you asked me to rank them before I did all this, I would have put them in the exact same order, so I feel good about the system I came up with for this one.
Max Score Possible - 137.6
Should have been ranked - Teemu Selanne
1 pt - Bobby Clarke 29.83 pts Had by far the lowest goals of the group. Lowest 7.5OPS score.
2 pts - Steve Yzerman 37.02 pts NHL 1st Team only once. Only six 7.5OPS seasons. Eight players on the list had 10 or more of them.
3 pts - Mark Messier 38.45 pts These first three guys did not have many NHL 1st/2nd Teams or finish 123 in G/A?pts for a season.
4 pts - Brett Hull 38.69 pts His four 123Goal seasons gave him the boost over Messier’s zero.
5 pts - Mike Bossy 45.40 pts In 10 seasons, 4 NHL 1st and 3 NHL 2nd Teams.Had nine 7.5+ OPS seasons. Seven 123 Goals seasons, but only one 123 Points seasons. The rest of the list all had at least 5 123 Points seasons.
6 pts - Guy Lafleur 49.55 pts Had six NHL 1st Teams and had five each of 123Goals, 123 Assists and 123 points seasons.
7 pts - Sidney Crosby 52.47 pts Has played 15 years and five of them have been severely hampered with injuries. Four 1st and 2nd NHL teams. Actually 12th on this list in career points. 10 7.5 OPS seasons and two 123G, five 123A, and eight 123pts, put him clearly ahead of those below him.
8 pts - Phil Esposito 64.39 pts. This is where the close run begins. Six NHL 1st and two NHL 2nd Teams.
9 pts - Jean Beliveau 64.70 pts This guy won 10 Cups in 20 years. Six NHL 1st and four NHL 2nd.
10 pts - Jaromir Jagr 64.77 pts Had seven NHL 1st Teams and his career totals edged him up here.
11 pts - Bobby Hull 64.79 pts Had 10 NHL 1st and two 2nd Teams. Was third on the list with ten 123G seasons.
12 pts - Rocket Richard - 65.41 pts Had eight NHL 1st and six NHL 2nd Teams. Won 8 cups. The Ovy of his era IMO.
13 pts - Alexandre Ovechkin 65.66 pts His 12 7.5+ OPS seasons were tied for second on the list and bumped him over Richard here. Had two more 123G seasons than him also.
14 pts - Mario Lemieux 71.46 pts
15 pts - Gordie Howe 114.31 pts Had 12 first and 9 second NHL teams. Mario had 5 and 4. Had 12-11-12 123 GAPTS seasons. Mario had 6-7-8. That’s why there is a sizable jump here.
16 pts - Wayne Gretzky 121.60 pts 17 7.5+ OPS seasons were five more than Howe’s 12. His 123 seasons were 6-16-16. His 9 Hart (MVP) and 10 Ross (scoring titles) were dramatically better than the rest of the list.
FINAL STANDINGS
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--576--5--8--5=18
2 --AAABatteries--553--3--4--7=14
3 --Getzlaf15--552--1--8--6=15
4 --Gally--550--4--2--3=9 (gold)
5 --DougB--543--7--2--2=11
6 --tuffnutt--540--5--1--7=13
7 --Ilov80s--540--3--5--1=9 (silver)
8 --otb_lifer--539--3--3--5=11
9 --Jagov--520--5--7--3=15 (bronze)
10 -joffer--514--5--4--3=12
11 -Long Ball Larry--511--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--482--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--473--4--1--2=7
14 -jwb--452--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--442--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--373--4--3--0=7
As I gathered the data on all the players to see which criteria to use and how much to weigh them, it became apparent that strictly going by career goals, assists and points would not be the answer.
Half of the players on the list were all-time greats, but played in eras with much less scoring than other players on the list.
It was clear to see that the number of times a player was named 1st or 2nd team NHL separated players that consistently did very well as opposed to the players that did okay and played 22+ years would be the way to go.
I also used how many times a player finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in goals, assists and points in a season as CATS. After doing this, I’m convinced that the top scorers of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s would have scored just as well as those that played in the ‘80’s, had they played in the ‘80’s.
Another CAT I used, was like the AV in football, it’s OPS in NHL. Offensive Point Shares. Players with a score of 7.5 or higher had the elite seasons. The number of 7.5+ seasons a player had was used as a CAT.
Lastly, six players wound up incredibly close in the final point totals. Had you asked me to rank them before I did all this, I would have put them in the exact same order, so I feel good about the system I came up with for this one.
Max Score Possible - 137.6
Should have been ranked - Teemu Selanne
1 pt - Bobby Clarke 29.83 pts Had by far the lowest goals of the group. Lowest 7.5OPS score.
2 pts - Steve Yzerman 37.02 pts NHL 1st Team only once. Only six 7.5OPS seasons. Eight players on the list had 10 or more of them.
3 pts - Mark Messier 38.45 pts These first three guys did not have many NHL 1st/2nd Teams or finish 123 in G/A?pts for a season.
4 pts - Brett Hull 38.69 pts His four 123Goal seasons gave him the boost over Messier’s zero.
5 pts - Mike Bossy 45.40 pts In 10 seasons, 4 NHL 1st and 3 NHL 2nd Teams.Had nine 7.5+ OPS seasons. Seven 123 Goals seasons, but only one 123 Points seasons. The rest of the list all had at least 5 123 Points seasons.
6 pts - Guy Lafleur 49.55 pts Had six NHL 1st Teams and had five each of 123Goals, 123 Assists and 123 points seasons.
7 pts - Sidney Crosby 52.47 pts Has played 15 years and five of them have been severely hampered with injuries. Four 1st and 2nd NHL teams. Actually 12th on this list in career points. 10 7.5 OPS seasons and two 123G, five 123A, and eight 123pts, put him clearly ahead of those below him.
8 pts - Phil Esposito 64.39 pts. This is where the close run begins. Six NHL 1st and two NHL 2nd Teams.
9 pts - Jean Beliveau 64.70 pts This guy won 10 Cups in 20 years. Six NHL 1st and four NHL 2nd.
10 pts - Jaromir Jagr 64.77 pts Had seven NHL 1st Teams and his career totals edged him up here.
11 pts - Bobby Hull 64.79 pts Had 10 NHL 1st and two 2nd Teams. Was third on the list with ten 123G seasons.
12 pts - Rocket Richard - 65.41 pts Had eight NHL 1st and six NHL 2nd Teams. Won 8 cups. The Ovy of his era IMO.
13 pts - Alexandre Ovechkin 65.66 pts His 12 7.5+ OPS seasons were tied for second on the list and bumped him over Richard here. Had two more 123G seasons than him also.
14 pts - Mario Lemieux 71.46 pts
15 pts - Gordie Howe 114.31 pts Had 12 first and 9 second NHL teams. Mario had 5 and 4. Had 12-11-12 123 GAPTS seasons. Mario had 6-7-8. That’s why there is a sizable jump here.
16 pts - Wayne Gretzky 121.60 pts 17 7.5+ OPS seasons were five more than Howe’s 12. His 123 seasons were 6-16-16. His 9 Hart (MVP) and 10 Ross (scoring titles) were dramatically better than the rest of the list.
FINAL STANDINGS
--STANDINGS--GOLD--SILVER--BRONZE--TOTAL
1 --Zow--576--5--8--5=18
2 --AAABatteries--553--3--4--7=14
3 --Getzlaf15--552--1--8--6=15
4 --Gally--550--4--2--3=9 (gold)
5 --DougB--543--7--2--2=11
6 --tuffnutt--540--5--1--7=13
7 --Ilov80s--540--3--5--1=9 (silver)
8 --otb_lifer--539--3--3--5=11
9 --Jagov--520--5--7--3=15 (bronze)
10 -joffer--514--5--4--3=12
11 -Long Ball Larry--511--3--2--4=9
12 -timschochet--482--4--4--4=12
13 -higgins--473--4--1--2=7
14 -jwb--452--2--4--3=9
15 -wikkidpissah--442--2--2--5=9
16 -Kal El--373--4--3--0=7
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Congrats Woz and thanks to Timmy, Getz, Hags, BL and all the other judges for a wonderful diversion during the pandemic.
I’d also like to take a minute to thank my Mom, LOVE YOU MOM!, my wife, my four wonderful kids and that German exchange student back in 10th grade - ˈseksē. Couldn’t have done this without you guys.
I’d also like to take a minute to thank my Mom, LOVE YOU MOM!, my wife, my four wonderful kids and that German exchange student back in 10th grade - ˈseksē. Couldn’t have done this without you guys.
Doug B
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
But my Alma Mater the Huntington Beach high school Oilers had an undefeated regular season, their best ever in modern times, featuring their star player Tony Gonzalez.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Two pages behind but Tebow is too low. So is Tommie Frazier
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
I thought the results were great.
All kidding aside, I think the only pick of mine I thought got underrated was Unseld, was pleasantly surprised to see Gates and Calhoun rate would high, and that the judges did a really good on the whole. There weren’t any rankings that I thought were controversial or total surprises.
Doug B
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I was judging the category and even I was surprised Calhoun ended up that high. But, I kept saying "well, he's better than this guy and he's better than that guy" and, before I knew it he was near the top. IMO, he was the best coach of his era. It was just that he had fewer great eras than a couple of others.I thought the results were great.
All kidding aside, I think the only pick of mine I thought got underrated was Unseld, was pleasantly surprised to see Gates and Calhoun rate would high, and that the judges did a really good on the whole. There weren’t any rankings that I thought were controversial or total surprises.
Jagov
Footballguy
This thing was the most fun I have had on the innerwebs in .... well ever! Thanks to all of you for making this a super few months.
Snub wise, I think that Christy Mathewson only getting 9 points in the Greatest Pitcher cat is my biggest one.
Value City wise, I think picking 1971 Nebraska in round 43 and getting 14 points was my biggest one.
Snub wise, I think that Christy Mathewson only getting 9 points in the Greatest Pitcher cat is my biggest one.
Value City wise, I think picking 1971 Nebraska in round 43 and getting 14 points was my biggest one.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I kept a spreadsheet of my picks with "value". Here's some data on my picks and thoughts on the draft:
Best Value (+4 or better):
96/97 Bulls (+9), Lauren Jackson (+8), Aaron Perisol (+8), Gary Stevens (+7), 1932 Yankees (+6), Betsy Rawls (+6), Ted Hendricks (+5), Krisztina Egerszegi (+5), Alexander Ovechkin (+4), Al MacInnis (+4), Dino Zoff (+4)
Worst Value (-4 or worse):
Wilam Rudolph (-8), Knute Rockne (-7), Doak Walker (-5), Joe Nathan (-4)
All medalists (14):
Michael Jordan, Hank Aaron, Roger Federer, Lionel Messi, Ronnie Lott, Walter Johnson, Walter Payton, Barry Bonds, Dean Smith, Peyton Manning, Kirk Gibson walk-off HR, Forrest Gregg, Gillis Grafstrom, Lauren Jackson
First 20 picks value: -9
Middle 20 picks value: -4
Last 20 picks value: +49
Overall pick value: +36
Picks with 0 value: 16 (meaning these were drafted basically where they should have been)
Biggest surprises (good): Lauren Jackson. I watch a ton of basketball but no women's basketball. I had only heard of Jackson but had never watched he play. I didn't expect her to get that ranking. I actually did expect the Bulls to do well, because well, Jordan. I think the team categories are a little weird to rank because of having multiple versions of the same team (Edmonton Oilers probably the biggest example). Funny enough, I did the best value-wise on categories where I really had limited knowledge coming in (Women's sports, Hockey)
Biggest surprises (bad): I thought Rockne would rank higher - think he got hurt by longevity.
Overall team thoughts: Kind of a silly thing but I LOVE my team. I honestly wasn't thinking of "winning" when I drafted. I drafted guys I like and think highly of. Michael Jordan, Hank Aaron, Roger Federer, Lionel Messi, Ronnie Lott, Walter Payton, Barry Bonds, Dean Smith, Peyton Manning - that's a lot of star power. In particular, Jordan, Federer and Messi are the best/most amazing players I've seen in their respective sports. I'd never tire of watching the guys on my team do their craft. I could watch Jordan, Federer and Messi highlights ever day and never get bored.
Overall thoughts: I've never done a Tim draft - really never wanted to or had the expertise until this one. Maybe still didn't have the expertise but with Covid it was a welcome distraction. 60 categories did make things drag and if I'm honest I didn't always spend a ton of time on each pick. I think I got skipped 2-3 times and felt like I rushed a couple of picks. Not making any excuses because some of my picks I did spend time on didn't go as planned.
Thought the judges did a fabulous job - unbelievable write-ups and I learned a lot. Overall had a wonderful experience and appreciate everybody participating.
Best Value (+4 or better):
96/97 Bulls (+9), Lauren Jackson (+8), Aaron Perisol (+8), Gary Stevens (+7), 1932 Yankees (+6), Betsy Rawls (+6), Ted Hendricks (+5), Krisztina Egerszegi (+5), Alexander Ovechkin (+4), Al MacInnis (+4), Dino Zoff (+4)
Worst Value (-4 or worse):
Wilam Rudolph (-8), Knute Rockne (-7), Doak Walker (-5), Joe Nathan (-4)
All medalists (14):
Michael Jordan, Hank Aaron, Roger Federer, Lionel Messi, Ronnie Lott, Walter Johnson, Walter Payton, Barry Bonds, Dean Smith, Peyton Manning, Kirk Gibson walk-off HR, Forrest Gregg, Gillis Grafstrom, Lauren Jackson
First 20 picks value: -9
Middle 20 picks value: -4
Last 20 picks value: +49
Overall pick value: +36
Picks with 0 value: 16 (meaning these were drafted basically where they should have been)
Biggest surprises (good): Lauren Jackson. I watch a ton of basketball but no women's basketball. I had only heard of Jackson but had never watched he play. I didn't expect her to get that ranking. I actually did expect the Bulls to do well, because well, Jordan. I think the team categories are a little weird to rank because of having multiple versions of the same team (Edmonton Oilers probably the biggest example). Funny enough, I did the best value-wise on categories where I really had limited knowledge coming in (Women's sports, Hockey)
Biggest surprises (bad): I thought Rockne would rank higher - think he got hurt by longevity.
Overall team thoughts: Kind of a silly thing but I LOVE my team. I honestly wasn't thinking of "winning" when I drafted. I drafted guys I like and think highly of. Michael Jordan, Hank Aaron, Roger Federer, Lionel Messi, Ronnie Lott, Walter Payton, Barry Bonds, Dean Smith, Peyton Manning - that's a lot of star power. In particular, Jordan, Federer and Messi are the best/most amazing players I've seen in their respective sports. I'd never tire of watching the guys on my team do their craft. I could watch Jordan, Federer and Messi highlights ever day and never get bored.
Overall thoughts: I've never done a Tim draft - really never wanted to or had the expertise until this one. Maybe still didn't have the expertise but with Covid it was a welcome distraction. 60 categories did make things drag and if I'm honest I didn't always spend a ton of time on each pick. I think I got skipped 2-3 times and felt like I rushed a couple of picks. Not making any excuses because some of my picks I did spend time on didn't go as planned.
Thought the judges did a fabulous job - unbelievable write-ups and I learned a lot. Overall had a wonderful experience and appreciate everybody participating.
Zegras11
Footballguy
First 20: -8
Mid 20: -14. (-25 on 21 to 30, +11 on 31 to 40)
Last 20: +33. (-10 on 41 to 50, +43 on 51 to 60)
My last six picks were all the 16th pick in that category
Pick 51 - 14th pick in that CAT for -1
Pick 52-54 - 15th pick in that CAT and had +6, +7, +4
Pick 55-60 - 16th pick in that CAT and had a +27 for the six of them.
I was kind puzzled to see so many CAT #16 picks so early.
Zow
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
Scores of 1 to 5--Scores of 6 to 11--Scores of 12 to 16--
13--25--22--Zow (18 of 22 Top 5 picks were in Top 3)
18--20--22--AAABatteries
16--18--26--Getzlaf15 (only one gold, but 43% in Top 5)
12--28--20--Gally (only 9 medal picks. Avg Medal picks is 11.25 per draftee. Can see why he was always near top now)
16--26--18--DougB
17--23--20--tuffnutt
12--28--20--Ilov80s (same as Gally. I blame CIA for the 10 less standings points)
14--23--23--otb_lifer
23--14--23--Jagov (feast or famine draftee)
20--21--19--joffer
17--25--18--Long Ball Larry
23--22--15--timschochet
20--28--12--higgins
23--20--17--jwb
24--23--13--wikkidpissah
30--19--11--Kal El
13--25--22--Zow (18 of 22 Top 5 picks were in Top 3)
18--20--22--AAABatteries
16--18--26--Getzlaf15 (only one gold, but 43% in Top 5)
12--28--20--Gally (only 9 medal picks. Avg Medal picks is 11.25 per draftee. Can see why he was always near top now)
16--26--18--DougB
17--23--20--tuffnutt
12--28--20--Ilov80s (same as Gally. I blame CIA for the 10 less standings points)
14--23--23--otb_lifer
23--14--23--Jagov (feast or famine draftee)
20--21--19--joffer
17--25--18--Long Ball Larry
23--22--15--timschochet
20--28--12--higgins
23--20--17--jwb
24--23--13--wikkidpissah
30--19--11--Kal El
Zegras11
Footballguy
--NFL Rankings CAT 16-27
Getzlaf15--123
joffer--116
Gally--115
otb_lifer--112
Zow--106
Jagov--106
Ilov80s--104
AAABatteries--103
tuffnutt--103
Long Ball Larry--100
higgins--99
Kal El--99
jwb--92
wikkidpissah--89
DougB--83
timschochet--82 (more proof that Tim sucks at Fantasy Football)
Getzlaf15--123
joffer--116
Gally--115
otb_lifer--112
Zow--106
Jagov--106
Ilov80s--104
AAABatteries--103
tuffnutt--103
Long Ball Larry--100
higgins--99
Kal El--99
jwb--92
wikkidpissah--89
DougB--83
timschochet--82 (more proof that Tim sucks at Fantasy Football)
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Zegras11
Footballguy
--NCAA Foot and Hoops Rankings CAT 28-34
timschochet--83 (Tim knows college stuff)
otb_lifer--82
Zow--79
DougB--75
Getzlaf15--69
higgins--65
AAABatteries--63
Gally--62
tuffnutt--61
jwb--58
joffer--57
Ilov80s--52
Jagov--48
Long Ball Larry--38
wikkidpissah--31
Kal El--29
timschochet--83 (Tim knows college stuff)
otb_lifer--82
Zow--79
DougB--75
Getzlaf15--69
higgins--65
AAABatteries--63
Gally--62
tuffnutt--61
jwb--58
joffer--57
Ilov80s--52
Jagov--48
Long Ball Larry--38
wikkidpissah--31
Kal El--29
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Following AAA's Format:
Best Value (+4 or better): I had 14 picks fall into this category with an overall of 31 picks in "positive" value. This is probably why I was at the top of the standings. I definitely made up for my poor value early picks in the late rounds. In the last 20 rounds I only had two negative value picks for a total of -3 in value. In contract I had three double digit value picks with Irina Rodnina (+12 pts in value), 1907 Cubs (+10), and 77/Montreal (+10).
Worst Value (-4 or worse): I had 8 picks fall into this category. Some were based on having a bad matchup with the judging criteria (Eddie Robinson) and others were trying to be clever (Tretiak) when I didn't have to be. I had 22 negative value picks and was hit hard in the top 3rd (first 20 rounds) with a total negative value of -39 pts in those picks)
All medalists (9): I only had 9 medalists so I wasn't a studs and duds team.
Gretzky (Rd 1 - G), Phil Jackson (2 - G), Belichick (5 - G), Paavo Nurmi (12 - B), Lochte (14 - S), Manny Pacquiao (23 - B), David Thompson (24 - G), and 77/78 Montreal Canadians (48 - S)
First 20 picks value: -39
Middle 20 picks value: +7
Last 20 picks value: +91
Overall pick value: +59
Picks with 0 value: 7
Picks with Positive value: 31
Picks with Negative Value: 22
Overall pick value: +59
Biggest surprises (good): Most of my team choices turned out well (except soccer but I just looked at lists and picked one so I wasn't expecting much). 1907 Cubs (picked last in category & finished 6th) and 72/73 UCLA (12th vs 4th) were the biggest jumps with my others being right about equal value.
However, my biggest surprise picks was Daryl Sutter for NHL coach finishing 7th. I chose him because he brought two Cups to LA and I was there to be along for the ride. I saw every game in 2014 in person and at least 1 game each round in 2012. I loved his press conferences and he is just an outstanding man and coach. It was great to see him be recognized on this list.
I also lucked into picking the best value for gold in David Thompson as the 9th player off the board for that category in the 24th round. Irina Rodnina as the best overall value at +12 in the 57th round wasn't bad either.
Biggest surprises (bad): I have a few. Eddie Robinson as the #16 coach floored me but since most of the criteria was based on top 20 finishes, bowl games, and more mainstream metrics it made sense. It just seems like he got a raw deal because of where he coached rather than his accomplishments. He may not have faced premier NCAA powerhouses but he faced teams with similar talent level and won while teaching his players about life. Paul Krause was the other head scratcher. The NFL career leader in interceptions isn't at least top 10? I still don't get that. Other than those two each of the disappointments I could understand to some degree, but disagreed with the evaluation. I guess I need to be a judge next time...hahahaha
Overall team thoughts: I liked my team and who I drafted and really wouldn't have changed too much with the way I went about crafting the roster. If I could do it over I wouldn't have picked Tretiak so early. I tried to be clever but coupled that with wasting an early pick. If I was going to be clever I could have waited on the pick. Cheryl Miller was a bad pick in hindsight (although I still think she is the best ever female basketball player). Also, I went a different direction on the moment categories and it hurt me on a couple of them. I would have gone a different route on that.
Overall thoughts: I wish we could do another. It was a great time waster and diversion from the world. This was great fun - especially getting a little insight into the people on this board that I hadn't interacted with before. I think I got a bad wrap on the whiny front as I was mostly trying to get some discussion going during some of the slow times but it's all in good fun (and who doesn't want to fight for their team...hahahaa) Judges were outstanding and I learned a lot from both researching on my own and the write ups. Everyone involved was great. Let's do it again soon..hahhaha
Special Thanks to @Getzlaf15 for keeping this thing on track and pushing over the finish line.
Best Value (+4 or better): I had 14 picks fall into this category with an overall of 31 picks in "positive" value. This is probably why I was at the top of the standings. I definitely made up for my poor value early picks in the late rounds. In the last 20 rounds I only had two negative value picks for a total of -3 in value. In contract I had three double digit value picks with Irina Rodnina (+12 pts in value), 1907 Cubs (+10), and 77/Montreal (+10).
Worst Value (-4 or worse): I had 8 picks fall into this category. Some were based on having a bad matchup with the judging criteria (Eddie Robinson) and others were trying to be clever (Tretiak) when I didn't have to be. I had 22 negative value picks and was hit hard in the top 3rd (first 20 rounds) with a total negative value of -39 pts in those picks)
All medalists (9): I only had 9 medalists so I wasn't a studs and duds team.
Gretzky (Rd 1 - G), Phil Jackson (2 - G), Belichick (5 - G), Paavo Nurmi (12 - B), Lochte (14 - S), Manny Pacquiao (23 - B), David Thompson (24 - G), and 77/78 Montreal Canadians (48 - S)
First 20 picks value: -39
Middle 20 picks value: +7
Last 20 picks value: +91
Overall pick value: +59
Picks with 0 value: 7
Picks with Positive value: 31
Picks with Negative Value: 22
Overall pick value: +59
Biggest surprises (good): Most of my team choices turned out well (except soccer but I just looked at lists and picked one so I wasn't expecting much). 1907 Cubs (picked last in category & finished 6th) and 72/73 UCLA (12th vs 4th) were the biggest jumps with my others being right about equal value.
However, my biggest surprise picks was Daryl Sutter for NHL coach finishing 7th. I chose him because he brought two Cups to LA and I was there to be along for the ride. I saw every game in 2014 in person and at least 1 game each round in 2012. I loved his press conferences and he is just an outstanding man and coach. It was great to see him be recognized on this list.
I also lucked into picking the best value for gold in David Thompson as the 9th player off the board for that category in the 24th round. Irina Rodnina as the best overall value at +12 in the 57th round wasn't bad either.
Biggest surprises (bad): I have a few. Eddie Robinson as the #16 coach floored me but since most of the criteria was based on top 20 finishes, bowl games, and more mainstream metrics it made sense. It just seems like he got a raw deal because of where he coached rather than his accomplishments. He may not have faced premier NCAA powerhouses but he faced teams with similar talent level and won while teaching his players about life. Paul Krause was the other head scratcher. The NFL career leader in interceptions isn't at least top 10? I still don't get that. Other than those two each of the disappointments I could understand to some degree, but disagreed with the evaluation. I guess I need to be a judge next time...hahahaha
Overall team thoughts: I liked my team and who I drafted and really wouldn't have changed too much with the way I went about crafting the roster. If I could do it over I wouldn't have picked Tretiak so early. I tried to be clever but coupled that with wasting an early pick. If I was going to be clever I could have waited on the pick. Cheryl Miller was a bad pick in hindsight (although I still think she is the best ever female basketball player). Also, I went a different direction on the moment categories and it hurt me on a couple of them. I would have gone a different route on that.
Overall thoughts: I wish we could do another. It was a great time waster and diversion from the world. This was great fun - especially getting a little insight into the people on this board that I hadn't interacted with before. I think I got a bad wrap on the whiny front as I was mostly trying to get some discussion going during some of the slow times but it's all in good fun (and who doesn't want to fight for their team...hahahaa) Judges were outstanding and I learned a lot from both researching on my own and the write ups. Everyone involved was great. Let's do it again soon..hahhaha
Special Thanks to @Getzlaf15 for keeping this thing on track and pushing over the finish line.
Ouch. Satchel Paige (1 pt), Rod Carew (2 pts), Ernie Banks (3 pts) and Lee Smith (4 pts), Curt Flood (5 pts), Francona (6 pts)…...if not for the 1907 Cubs (11pts) it could have been a lot worse. Hahahah
jwb
Footballguy
One thing I was reminded of is if you want to do well, don't take the "out of the box / more personal favorite that YOU think is great" pick on categories you're taking late. I took quite a few 1's doing that - Joe Klecko (pro bowl at 3 different DL positions), Billy Martin (still the greatest game manager in my mind), etc. Better to go with a safer choice and shoot for 3-5 points.
Really fun draft, great judging and writeups, and not much griping, really.
Movies again next, @timschochet?
Really fun draft, great judging and writeups, and not much griping, really.
Movies again next, @timschochet?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I had a few "homer" picks and was worried it would cost me. Ultimately I did try to weigh when to take those and it didn't really hurt me (or help me). I have some strategy ideas on this that I may type up at some point.
One thing is hitting a moving target - not knowing what the judging criteria would be. To me, that makes it fun. Otherwise you end up with everyone with the same "cheetsheet" and it just becomes a task in selecting the next player.
I still think an interesting twist you could do on this draft is to crowdsource the drafting and make the scoring weighted. Using an example - the NBA center position seemed to have an obvious top 3. With weighted scoring you may get 3 guys with scores around 1.2 and 4th place may only be around 5 or 6 points. I could see that providing enough of a twist to warrant doing another version of the draft.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Shameful result. Ovrebo missed obvious handballs by Pique and later Eto’o - both clear penalties.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Had 11 with 4+ value or more. All after rd 30.
Had 7 with 4- value or more. Five were -4 or -5.
Had 27 positive
Had 26 negative
Had 7 neutral
Medaled in rounds, 1-5, 7-10, 12, 17, 20. 29, 31 and 32.
Was really happy with where the Tyree pick was ranked (2nd, +5 value) and the '09 Pirates pick (+6)
Had 7 with 4- value or more. Five were -4 or -5.
Had 27 positive
Had 26 negative
Had 7 neutral
Medaled in rounds, 1-5, 7-10, 12, 17, 20. 29, 31 and 32.
Was really happy with where the Tyree pick was ranked (2nd, +5 value) and the '09 Pirates pick (+6)
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I found it difficult at the beginning to hit that moving target and it did cost me in a few categories pretty heavily. However, I did like this aspect a lot for drafting purposes because you had a chance to explain your reasoning and approach for why you drafted a certain player.
I also took a couple homer picks (Carew and Daryl Sutter to name a couple) and they both worked out about as I expected (hoped). I don't think this kills you in the grand scheme of things if you aren't just completely punting. As my son said, "you could draft me for best athlete and you would still get a point"....hahahah
As other's have mentioned it was shocking how often that the 16th selection for a category was taken many rounds before the end of the draft. That is drafting 101.....hahhaa
Zow
Footballguy
Yep. I genuinely never tried to get overly creative and always tried to take guys I thought were objectively even value at the spot. I did look at online lists but strategy each round was never to reach.*
Baze wasn’t a reach in my thought process. I read a list where he was 5, his stats seemed crazy to me, and I just don’t know enough about horse racing to realize what I was doing. Was between him and Day and wasn’t smart enough to realize the difference. So, I figure I was appropriately punished in the category I knew very little about (jockeys and figure skating both genders were the three categories I was clueless about).
Emerson was my Baze. I did basically the same thing. I had no idea who to pick and the usual suspects (Wilander being one) seemed blah and then I say the stats and since I didn't understand the Open era and before differences his stats really didn't translate. Oh well, it was interesting to learn how it fit in. @BobbyLayne did a great job even if Emerson should have been higher.....hahahaha
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Best Value (+4 or better):
Lennox Lewis (+8), Y Kim (+8), K Hosszu (+6), Bob Feller (+5), Carlos Monzon (+5), Mike Marshall (+5), Otto Graham (+5), Tony Esposito (+4), Jagr (+4), 66-67 76ers (+4)
Worst Value (-4 or worse):
Flo-Jo (-9), Earl Weaver (-7), Korbut (-5), Rupp (-5), Bill George (-5), Dave Rimington (-5), 56-57 UNC (-5), Doug Harvey (-4)
All medalists (9
Secretariat, Bill Shoemaker, SB III
K. Hosszu, Yuna Kim
Lev Yashin, Steffi Graf, Paul Brown, Kathy Whitworth
First 20 picks value: -19
Middle 20 picks value: +4
Last 20 picks value: +35
Overall pick value: +20
Picks with 0 value: 7 (meaning these were drafted basically where they should have been)
Biggest surprises (good): Lennox Lewis was one that I thought measured up accomplishment-wise, but really wasn't sure what to expect. Similar with Katinka Hosszu, especially since I had never even heard of her before researching for this. I guess that a lot of my other good ones were somewhat surprising because I really wasn't that confident, just tried to play what the board gave me at the time and do the most research that I could. THose were probably some of the ones that I did try to briefly game out as to where the tiers were for the remaining players.
Biggest surprises (bad): Probably Korbut was the biggest surprise, though I knew it was a little risky because she had a short career. I think that Earl Weaver and Doug Harvey were kind of given short shrift on some of the straight stat compiling. Flo Jo was surprising to me as to how low she came in, but I can't say that I have much knowledge about this category, so it's not like I can be too outraged.
Overall, I probably should have had some better strategy throughout. The first 5 or 6 rounds, I tried to grab the top tiers in categories that I really didn't know anything about. Then I got a little bit lost in balancing out how much to do that versus really looking at the tiers within each category. By the time I kind of straightened that out around the mid-20s or so, I may have lost it already. I also thought that I would be able to scoop value late in some of the major sport categories, which really didn't happen. In retrospect, I probably should have focused on high picks in the major sports that I really knew and let some of the other off-brand sports wait, as it actually would have been easier to pick up value there.
Lennox Lewis (+8), Y Kim (+8), K Hosszu (+6), Bob Feller (+5), Carlos Monzon (+5), Mike Marshall (+5), Otto Graham (+5), Tony Esposito (+4), Jagr (+4), 66-67 76ers (+4)
Worst Value (-4 or worse):
Flo-Jo (-9), Earl Weaver (-7), Korbut (-5), Rupp (-5), Bill George (-5), Dave Rimington (-5), 56-57 UNC (-5), Doug Harvey (-4)
All medalists (9
Secretariat, Bill Shoemaker, SB III
K. Hosszu, Yuna Kim
Lev Yashin, Steffi Graf, Paul Brown, Kathy Whitworth
First 20 picks value: -19
Middle 20 picks value: +4
Last 20 picks value: +35
Overall pick value: +20
Picks with 0 value: 7 (meaning these were drafted basically where they should have been)
Biggest surprises (good): Lennox Lewis was one that I thought measured up accomplishment-wise, but really wasn't sure what to expect. Similar with Katinka Hosszu, especially since I had never even heard of her before researching for this. I guess that a lot of my other good ones were somewhat surprising because I really wasn't that confident, just tried to play what the board gave me at the time and do the most research that I could. THose were probably some of the ones that I did try to briefly game out as to where the tiers were for the remaining players.
Biggest surprises (bad): Probably Korbut was the biggest surprise, though I knew it was a little risky because she had a short career. I think that Earl Weaver and Doug Harvey were kind of given short shrift on some of the straight stat compiling. Flo Jo was surprising to me as to how low she came in, but I can't say that I have much knowledge about this category, so it's not like I can be too outraged.
Overall, I probably should have had some better strategy throughout. The first 5 or 6 rounds, I tried to grab the top tiers in categories that I really didn't know anything about. Then I got a little bit lost in balancing out how much to do that versus really looking at the tiers within each category. By the time I kind of straightened that out around the mid-20s or so, I may have lost it already. I also thought that I would be able to scoop value late in some of the major sport categories, which really didn't happen. In retrospect, I probably should have focused on high picks in the major sports that I really knew and let some of the other off-brand sports wait, as it actually would have been easier to pick up value there.
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I had that in mind to start which is some of the reason I took Cheryl Miller in the 3rd round. The more I thought about it as the draft was going I decided that figuring out tiers within categories where there might be some ability to jump tiers based on how the judges would rate players would be the type of categories to put off figuring I might find value later on and it worked.
Although, I am still not sure what the raw data really means for the scoring. I was way low on value picks for the first third - which probably makes a lot of sense because the chances of getting good value isn't high when you are taking the 3rd or 4th guy in a category. While the risk of getting big negatives is more prevalent. So it probably makes sense for most teams to have negative value in the first third of the draft and bigger positives as it went on based on the inverse.
Zow
Footballguy
The bold was my strategy as well in conjunction with taking no reaches. First five rounds I was just trying to grab clear top choices (Thorpe was my top rated choice overall with the Bo Jackson pick throwing me off a bit). After that I had top tiers for each category and tried to grab those selections as I could see an argument for them being a top choice (e.g. 2016 Warriors, Bear Bryant, 1970 Dolphins, Hanzu, Jon Jones, Jordan's Final Shot, etc.). Oddly, now that I'm looking at it I feel slightly hosed with my Musial and Speaker picks as I recall thinking when I took them they were good value and had a strong chance to medal. But, nonetheless, they were consistent with my overall draft strategy of not risking losing value with a reach/sleeper/cute pick.
Looking back I think the only pick I made (again, excluding Baze) that really lost value was Wes Unseld. And I think I drafted him and Baze on the same day. I am just going to assume I had been drinking.
