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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)
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GordonGekko
Footballguy
Technically speaking, Philly could compel Simmons to get an "independent" league medical evaluation under the Chris Bosh Rule. However there are diminishing returns to doing this. The Spurs could have compelled Kawhi Leonard to do that as well, as he claimed SA was toying with his health with complete disregard ( No one actually believed it) Rich Paul has a negative reputation around the league and in professional sports. He exists simply as a tax on the need for the NBA to bend the knee to LeBron James and Nike.
The owners and Adam Silver don't want a loophole where players can claim mental health to get paid not to play. Even under an evaluation under the Chris Bosh Rule, what can be determined? This isn't a back or a knee. On the flip side, no one wants the negative media optics of it appearing that the ownership group, mostly white males, are leveraging a mentally ill young black man beyond his functional capacity to perform.
Claiming mental health ( real or not) gave Simmons breathing room. The hatchet jobs in the press by Morey and the 76ers had to take a break. That being said, it works both ways. Simmons and Paul can't just unload anymore on the Sixers because they don't want it to appear that they are gaming the system.
The more Rich Paul can take Simmons trade value, the better chance he has to get him traded to a competitive team. The big hold up is Simmons signed a long term deal and doesn't have a No Trade Clause. Look at Melo. He leveraged Denver into trading him to New York. He just simply said I won't sign an extension with anyone else. Once the trade price reduces to a rental price for the rest of the league, the Nuggets were cornered.
A fair argument by the owners is a long term contract is a risk by the franchises but any player who signs a street max or a Super Max or a full Bird Rights max with the intention to immediately demand a trade is a subversion of the system. Lots of owners were angry with Chris Paul. He was the head of the players side of the NBPA and pushed for the Over 38 Rule , which was a change from the Over 36 Rule . Doing so benefited him into getting that massive deal from Houston. To get that concession from the owners, cuts were made to some of the Rookie Scale Exception benefits and some benefits from retired players of previous generations. Paul complained OKC gave him no input into trading him to the Suns. Signing that massive deal was Paul implicitly agreeing that in exchange for long term security and signing a deal without a NTC ( he didn't have the tenure benchmark in OKC) , he would surrender his ability to dictate any trade destination.
Pick one. Long term security and no control if you get traded. Or go short term deal to deal and have your freedom but without long term security. Lots of NBA players want and demand both and that's just unreasonable.
Philly getting Simmons under their medical/mental health supervision opens more pathways to rescind his contract. Or close to loophole where Simmons can get paid to chill out at home and play video games. This would force Simmons to play if he's faking this all, and by virtue of playing, his trade value can't take anymore.
If Simmons does not have a legitimate mental health issue, he and Rich Paul have effectively punished everyone in America who does. The silent argument Rich Paul is making but not saying to Morey is "Trading Simmons for little to nothing is better than trading him for completely nothing which is better than Simmons just sitting for four years killing your cap"
This is a test of Morey's resolve. All he needs is to send in investigators to bird dog and wire up Simmons completely and get him on a video and audio discussing the "mental health strategy" to Rich Paul. This would force the league to ban Rich Paul permanently. Klutch Sports would likely have to dissolve. Simmons would get his full contract rescinded and get the maximum level of fine and a multiple year ban from the league. If a non Sixers team is caught complicit, the tax wouldn't be like the TWolves and Joe Smith, it would be forcing them to hire Becky Hammon and giving her a locked in 10 year contract with minimal penalties after the previous front office and coaching staff are fired.
I don't think most people understand Morey. He'd rather have Simmons' contract fully rescinded and get no trade value back than to trade Simmons for little to nothing with Rich Paul laughing in his face.
This is the Sam Hinkie Curse. This team should have never fired Hinkie. They should have just left him alone. Hinkie would have traded Simmons a lot sooner, like he did with MCW.
Personally, if Simmons is caught faking this in public, I hope Kevin Love hits him with a baseball bat on national TV during half time. There are people out there who truly struggle and suffer with mental health. This is pretty disgusting. I'm sure someone will say there's no evidence Simmons is faking this all, but the entire narrative is cooked. It doesn't pass the immediate sniff test. This was shoddy long con strategy by Rich Paul and it shows.
DJackson10
Footballguy
There were underlying issues here. As I type this story in almost the exact seats I had that night 6 yrs ago this Jan/Feb. My buddy and I sat behind a fan and a Sixers staffer who sounded like he was from the Carribean or one of the West Africa countries. A lot of detail was given a lot came true.
One was the fact Colagelo took a poll with US Mens team on interest level of big stars joining the Sixers. He found out to recruit bigger stars he needed to trade for a star who was disgruntled or expire deal from team who couldn't afford to resign them. Hence the Nerlens Noel for Schraoder/Teague and eventually Sixers made the trade for Butler. Butler not resigning is going to cause major issues for Sixers signing bigger names to be around Joel btw. If JB didn't want to stay in Philly who will now?
Anyway the big issues revolved around Hinkie, Harris and other owners and Coach Brett Brown (who a co worker of mine was neighbors with). Everything stated Joel's rookie year when he was out with the foot injury. Brown thought the team was being too soft on Joel and letting him have carte blanche from his diet to when he shows up to rehab. This became an even bigger regarding the fact if the 76ers had a chance to draft Simmons as the Sixers knew about Ben's attitude issues but Brown being a friend of Ben's family convinced Harris he might be able to work with Ben. Brown and Hinkie had at it multiple times prior to Hinkie leaving. Brown literally told the 76ers that he would not extend his contract and leave the 76ers if Sam Hinkie was his GM. Brown forced the 76ers into a decision Brown or Hinkie 76ers chose Brown. Unfortunately for Brown Hinkie wasn't his only problem when it came to undermining him as it turns out the owners wanted to coddle their stars as much as Hinkie. Harris and Company had no plan B if tanking didn't work.
Hinkie was also causing problems with other GMS and owners where teams started to refuse to do business with the team.
Long story short there were issues between Hinkie and Brown that weren't reparable and the ownership decided Brown was more important to the future then Hinkie who was apparently never the long term GM he was just there to set the foundation. Hinkie also would've never traded Simmons either. The dude held onto everything. He would've never pulled the trigger on the Butler trade either.
People seem to have their weird obsession with Hinkie. The dude besides drafting Embiid (he got lucky do to a medical red flag or Joel goes to the Cavs then) Hinkie never did anything spectacular with the draft. Only good thing he did well was acquire assets and made sure the team was the biggest embarrassment in the league to guarantee them as much of a #1 pick as possible.
DJackson10
Footballguy
@ShamsCharania
Sources: 76ers president Daryl Morey approached All-Star Ben Simmons today about his return to game action, but Simmons restated that he is not yet mentally ready to play and is continuing to seek professional help. There’s no timetable on Simmons‘ return to the floor.
here's an update on that
Sources: 76ers president Daryl Morey approached All-Star Ben Simmons today about his return to game action, but Simmons restated that he is not yet mentally ready to play and is continuing to seek professional help. There’s no timetable on Simmons‘ return to the floor.
here's an update on that
Not a single thing about Philly beating Chicago tonight? Just ignore that and post another Ben post?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
And now Isiah Joe is in the COVID protocol (not sure if he is positive or vaxxed) and everyone is getting tested. Hopefully they have a squad tonight . . . .
mr. furley
Footballguy
can we get a non-Sixers & Celtics NBA thread up and running?
Jayrod
Footballguy
I'd join in on this. You won't see any C's talk from me unless they at least get above .500.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I wouldn't mind reading about Josh Giddey's potential.
SWC
Bromigo
DJackson10
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
It was a good game Had the Bulls shot better and Zach didn't have tunnel vision CHI probably wins last night. Sixers rely way too heavily on shooting 3s though nightly
mr. furley
Footballguy
that's a fact but they're kinda drowned out by SIxerschat(tm)
haven't seen them play yet this year but curious how Mobley and the Cavs are looking.
God I would love this. I don't think you guys are capable of going 3 days without talking about Ben though. Especially Djax.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I come here for the discussions about the discussions of Ben Simmons.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The Thunder are in an interesting position. Because of their draft capital ( they have more draft picks than they can feasibly use) and while they still have some cap flexibility, they are almost always implied in any large 3-4 team trade in the NBA for the next several years. And Lu Dort is one of the most valuable bargain impact to cost ratio players in the entire league.
Tatum wants to play with Beal
Zion wants to play with RJ Barrett
Lillard wants/needs a second superstar ( Doncic is in the same boat)
Simmons needs to go somewhere
The Ayton/Suns situation doesn't look like it will end well and will turn into a trade
The KAT/Goose/DLo trio in Minnesota needs more help but have no functional mechanisms to get them. If Kuminga breaks out, that might be the final nail in keeping KAT on that team long term.
The Warriors have a lot of young players who would be attractive in a trade ( Wiseman, Moody, Kuminga, Poole)
San Antonio knows it won't draw in a prime free agent, and they have a lot of useful but not elite guys.
The Thunder are in a very interesting situation. They can still build around Giddey and SGA in multiple ways.
DJackson10
Footballguy
It's a big story. A lot of us remember Sixers fans saying that tanking would make them Championship caliber team. They did the tank and acquired really one Superstar in it and had one they traded for not want to resign because he saw the dysfunticon of the whole organization who coddled to players who need to be babied and the Sixers are back to 2nd round exits.
But hey keep complaining because apparently you got no issues with @modogg coming here and posting mostly about the Celtics.
Again, no one just asked you about the Sixers tanking thing. Even when the Sixers beat your bulls you couldn't give a "Sixers did well" it was the predictable backhanded compliment and the hilarious "if the bulls shot better they would have won" lol.It's a big story. A lot of us remember Sixers fans saying that tanking would make them Championship caliber team. They did the tank and acquired really one Superstar in it and had one they traded for not want to resign because he saw the dysfunticon of the whole organization who coddled to players who need to be babied and the Sixers are back to 2nd round exits.
But hey keep complaining because apparently you got no issues with @modogg coming here and posting mostly about the Celtics.
Im pretty sure you wouldn't step foot in a basketball thread where you couldn't discuss your most hated team. Jeez even mo has chilled out on the Celtics this year.
Major
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm finding OKC's newfound rivalry with the Lakers quite amusing. Seeing Westbrook blow that game with a TO was fitting.
caustic
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Juxtatarot said:
Well get ready. The fines start again effective as of last night's victory without him (and Tobias, Green, Kork, and Joe) against the Pistons.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Moe. said:
Where my Poku minutes at?!
Moe.
Footballguy
If they could just get the Lakers every night they'd be all set.thecatch said:
Last night is a good example of why they are a little frustrating on other nights. There is no need for them to actively tank given the players that they have. I want to see Daigneault coach and try to win, not strategically blow games by playing lineups that are not grounded in reality. They have been a really rough watch most nights.
Bazley has had a couple of decent games, but is struggling overall. I would not be surprised at all if he isn't on the team at the end of this season. Poku is nowhere near ready and should probably be playing in the G League, whenever that starts. Ty Jerome needs more minutes.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Major said:
Seeing that ball hog blow games is always nice. Westbrook teams since KD has left him have never reached the 2nd round of the post season. Lets see if it holds true with LAL or the NBA works their referee voodoo to make sure LeFlop doesn't exit in the first round
DJackson10
Footballguy
Deamon said:
After listening to sixers fans pretty much guarantee a title getting big names after tanking I think this is a bit a karma here. Sorry your teams tank job didn't work and your ownership is inept at handling the issues involving the team. There clearly was never a plan b here and they pulled the wool over peoples eyes and they drank the kool aid. I was a called a hater, jealous etc for what the 76ers were doing even when I called the Sixers would regret drafting Simmons. So I'm not sorry if I piss off a few sixers fans along the way in my enjoyment of the Sixers failures.
Did I say the Sixers play well? Sure I did. I also made an observation on the team the game etc. Did the 76ers have a good shooting night? Yes they did. I've observed over the last few yrs they seem to rely too much of their 3 game which has gotten them in trouble before. I also made the Observation that Vucevic (Who I even liked on the 76ers before the dumb Bynum trade) had a poor go of it that night and my team didn't shoot well. Also an observation. Sorry If I'm not glad handing the team but I'm making an observation on the game I saw.
Also why I didn't comment? If you saw my above post to the Ben tweet you quoted you'd have seen I was at the game that night. I made a quick post to update something when coming home as I was out with a female friend for the game. I came home late and had work early. Until I got home I had almost no other chance to comment on the game.
My Comment on Mo was more of the fact that I think it's hypocritical for you and other 76ers fans to complain about me complaining about the 76ers when you guys were perfectly fine with Mo and others doing the same for the Celtics. I don't think I once called him out on it either other then a simple chill out on a overreaction he had awhile back because of a certain call or something. However I haven't repeatedly come into the thread making back hand comments on the guy like has been done to me. So I'm calling out the hypocrisy here more then anything similar to 76ers fans who defended the team tanking who complained about the Penguins and nationals tanking years back.
Ben is also a big NBA story. I'd be posting if it were anyone else too what's going on or if he was on another team. I've always thought he was fraud so no matter who had I'd have posted. Other then Leoroy it's kind of ironic how no other Sixers fan even wants to post updates on the Ben Simmons situation. You and others are more then welcomed to post whats going on with your team.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I'm no Westbrook fan, but it's pretty dumb to call him a ballhog all the time, although I know you like to latch on to something and constantly bash it to pieces (LeFlop - GENIUS).
Westbrook averages 8.5 assists per game in his career. That's 9th all-time in NBA History. Better than Steve Nash, Bob Cousy, Tiny Archibald, Mark Price, Gary Payton, Mo Cheeks, and I can go on. The 8 players who have averaged more in their careers are five HOFers, a guaranteed HOFer who is still active, Kevin Johnson, and John Wall. He also has 3 league assist titles.
You can say he shoots too much when he has a below average outside shot, you can say you don't think his style of play will every win a championship, but calling him a ballhog is just plain inaccurate. Not to mention he's a really, really, really, really good player.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think if this continues we could see the 76ers implement the Bosh rule into this. I know the 76ers would like to get something for Ben but at this point I think they might have to bite the bullet and find someway to terminate the guys contract and not have to pay a penny of it. Let him pick who he wants to go to and let it be his new teams headache. The players currently on the 76ers who want to play isn't fair to them or the coaching staff to have this over their head the whole season. Eventually it's gonna take a mental toll on these guys and effect their play.
Honestly I hope this whole fiasco puts a huge dent in Clutch Sports and kind of ends their career. The NBA has bent over backwards without a courtesy of a reach around to Rich Paul for awhile now simple because their money maker in Lebron has Clutch as his representation. Can't PO the face of the NBA. I'm willing to bet theres some behind the scenes stuff Paul has gotten away with the NBA has allowed too. I'm really curious how this effects Clutch long term as well. Clutch and Paul as its been said here don't have a good image nor are liked amongst others or peers in others sports leagues. Paul is trying to become the NBA's Version of Drew Rosenhaus or Scott Boras and is failing miserable. The difference between them and Paul is both had the courtesy and respect of people in their respective sports and were appreciated for their tough but professional business approach. Clutch and Paul's approach haven been anything of that lately.
No one has mentioned this but former 76er and clutch Client Nerlens Noel sued them for mismanaging his contract. You also have Charles Barkley coming out and saying Clutch are just bullies in the NBA and he hopes the 76ers stand up to them and say enough is enough. Honestly despite the fact not handling Simmons situation well day 1 of drafting him and not trading him sooner you got to admit they haven't blinked on any of Paul and Clutch's threats. Honestly if I'm the 76ers I'd even go public with the fact now if they realize Ben has no trade value to say publicly they are willing to take this thing to court and have Ben's contract terminated for Conduct Detrimental. Start pushing back and see if Paul and his cronies blink and wave the white flag. Clutch/ Paul and Simmons are all giving the NBA such a black eye right now.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
And while we're at that's probably enough of the "bending over with no reach around" garbage.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Westbrook is another player who only passes it when he knows he's gonna get an assist off of it. He has terrible shot selections when he should be handling the ball off to others but his ego an wanting to pad his stats stop him
I honestly don't think he's that great he's super overrated and you can argue all the triple doubles in the world but todays game it's super easy to get a triple double compared to the 80s or 90s. Westbrook style of play will never win a title. He's simple not a team player and tries to hard to play hero ball and be the guy. OKC lost their series with him and KD because Westbrook refused to stop playing hero ball. He had KD wide open multiple times for better shots in that series. People can go after KD for chasing a title but honestly when everyone outside of your coach at the time wants to build the team around someone like Westbrook whos style of play won't win a title over you one of the best pure scorers in the NBA I really don't blame him for leaving.
I found it ironic when he was asked at the Olympics awhile back if he liked the FIBA rules compared to the NBA and he said he did. Why was it so ironic? Because the FIBA rules and style of play in Europe caters to team play and playing within a system. If one guy tries paying hero ball he kills the whole system and it earns him time on the bench. It's why I actually like watching Euroball sometimes a lot more over the NBA. Way too much AND1 and hero ball 1V1. A lot of guys don't play within a team concept anymore.
I simple view Russ as an incredible overrated player who's just another regular season stat padder whos style of play and ego will not allow him to win a title.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
too tired
Frostillicus
Footballguy
You're welcome to your opinion of course, but #1 - only passing if you're going to get an assist is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and is impossible to do in real life. If anything, you could say he only passes when he can't shoot. That's a decent argument at least.
Sure, there are more triple doubles now than ever before. He's still one of only two guys to average a triple double. That isn't easy.
I would like to see some footage of the multiple times he had KD open and didn't pass.
Your guy Jordan is the very definition of hero ball.
Pick any metric and Westbrook rates out as a great player in the all-time scheme of things. And damn you for making me defend him.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Identikit's crying emoji made me do this.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Do you know what assist percentage is? It's the % of baskets your teammates baskets that come off an assist from you while you're on the floor. Guess who is #1 all-time at 50% - John Stockton. Makes sense. #2 is Chris Paul at 45% and #3 is Trae Young at 44%.
Care to guess who is #4 at 43?
Nope, not Magic. He's #7 at 41%.
Nope, not Nash. He's #6 at 41.5%.
Mark Jackson, right? Nope. He's #12 at 39%.
Jason Kidd? #14 at 38%.
How about Isiah? Sorry. #18 at 37%.
Yes that's right. Westbrook is #4 all-time in assist percentage. When he is on the floor, his teammates baskets come off an assist from him 43% of the time. Pretty amazing numbers considering he only passes if he knows he's going to get an assist. His teammates - from OKC to HOU to WASH - must be absolutely AMAZING at getting open.
Care to guess who is #4 at 43?
Nope, not Magic. He's #7 at 41%.
Nope, not Nash. He's #6 at 41.5%.
Mark Jackson, right? Nope. He's #12 at 39%.
Jason Kidd? #14 at 38%.
How about Isiah? Sorry. #18 at 37%.
Yes that's right. Westbrook is #4 all-time in assist percentage. When he is on the floor, his teammates baskets come off an assist from him 43% of the time. Pretty amazing numbers considering he only passes if he knows he's going to get an assist. His teammates - from OKC to HOU to WASH - must be absolutely AMAZING at getting open.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Oh but he can't win in the playoffs, right? I get it. He's never gone very far despite haven't some good teammates. That's understandable. I mean, he has a career 50% winning percentage in his career in the playoffs. Gross. I mean, it's better than CJ McCollum, John Stockton, Kevin Garnett, Dirk, Nash, Wes Unseld, Paul George, Al Horford, Shawn Kemp, Elvin Hayes, Terry Cummings, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Larry Nance, Damian Lillard, and Tim Hardaway. But still, maeks it clear he's super bad at basketball.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
down 21 win by 15 vs the Bucks. nice game from the NY Knickerbockers.
mr. furley
Footballguy
just what the hell are our Bulls up to?
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Career usage rate: Westbrook 32.5%, Wade 31.4%
Carrer assist rate: Westbrook 42.7%, Wade 30.4%
Career turnover rate: Westbrook 15.9%, Wade 13.7%
I'm too dumb to find the actual rates right now apparently, but guess what these numbes mean? It means Wade took a greater percentage of his team's shots while he was on the floor than Westbrook has.
Carrer assist rate: Westbrook 42.7%, Wade 30.4%
Career turnover rate: Westbrook 15.9%, Wade 13.7%
I'm too dumb to find the actual rates right now apparently, but guess what these numbes mean? It means Wade took a greater percentage of his team's shots while he was on the floor than Westbrook has.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
And he never, ever takes a night off. Probably plays harder than anyone in the league. And I guess I'm a Westbrook defender now.
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