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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (2 Viewers)

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At this point, I assume the Sixers are trying to get Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Caris LeVert, or possibly Jerami Grant while trying not to give up Maxey or Thybulle.  If Lillard and Beal are off of the table, those guys best fill their needs -- so whichever is cheapest . . . .

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
It would be kind of funny if the Sixers end up with Ingram.

https://bleacherrepor

Leeroy Jenkins said:
It would be kind of funny if the Sixers end up with Ingram.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2647393-nba-draft-experts-ultimate-tale-of-the-tape-ben-simmons-vs-brandon-ingram

The Process really was a failure, if they didn't luck into Embiid.  Every other pick was a disaster, or they moved on from someone way too early or for something terrible. 
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t.com/articles/2647393-nba-draft-experts-ultimate-tale-of-the-tape-ben-simmons-vs-brandon-ingram

The Process really was a failure, if they didn't luck into Embiid.  Every other pick was a disaster, or they moved on from someone way too early or for something terrible. 
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Why would New Orleans want to trade for Ben Simmons? That has disaster written all over it.

 
So wait.  Kyrie Irving is saying he is waiting for a plant based vaccine because he is concerned about what he puts in his body blah blah blah.

Meanwhile, the "plant based" vaccine that is currently in trials, would be the first plant based vaccine approved for humans.  The company developing the plant based vaccine is a subsidiary of big tobacco Phillip Morris.  The plant is a derivative of tobacco.  And "plant based" here doesn't mean that the ingredients of the vaccine are from plants, rather they use plants to produce the antigens of the vaccine . . . .  

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
At this point, I assume the Sixers are trying to get Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Caris LeVert, or possibly Jerami Grant while trying not to give up Maxey or Thybulle.  If Lillard and Beal are off of the table, those guys best fill their needs -- so whichever is cheapest . . . .
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The Knicks

Evan Fournier as salary ballast, RJ Barrett, Miles "Deuce" McBride or Quentin Grimes and something else.

Simmons offers Thibs the defense he wants and needs and that team desperately needs a point guard. They haven't had a functional PG since Jeremy Lin at the end of 2011. He's also locked up long term. Randle shifts from the de facto primary ball handler because he's a ball stopper that refuses to move off the ball. He'll wither under double teams and his handle is shaky for the role and his BBIQ isn't great. I don't think Randle can be traded as well, teams sort of recognize he's a contract year type player.  Randle can shoot all he wants (RJB isn't taking more of his shots away) and Simmons doesn't have to shoot at all.

The Knicks are going to have ask themselves how they feel about Barrett when he asks for a max contract. Do I think he's a max player? No. But they are sort of in a spot as they haven't drafted a guy who has reasonably panned out in a while. They are under a lot of pressure to keep Barrett if he stays with them up to his free agency. Simmons is still young enough and talented enough where losing RJB won't hurt the perception of the team too much.

The market has collapsed on Simmons. His value keeps tanking. Barrett is still on his rookie deal and Fournier's 4th year is a team option. He'll give you some shooting and floor spacing ( not a fan of his defense and he's clearly overpaid) and he should be someone Morey can trade by next season.

It's going to be hard to make a deal with a team without them asking for Thybulle and Maxey and even Seth Curry at this point. McBride and Grimes are actually decent prospects.

Morey has to settle for less and find a team willing to settle for less than Thybulle and Maxey and Curry.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
It would be kind of funny if the Sixers end up with Ingram.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2647393-nba-draft-experts-ultimate-tale-of-the-tape-ben-simmons-vs-brandon-ingram

The Process really was a failure, if they didn't luck into Embiid.  Every other pick was a disaster, or they moved on from someone way too early or for something terrible. 
Click to expand...


They should've drafted Ingram and I've said it was a failure. The key to all of this was getting a big name to sign but apparently guys were hesitant to sign with them. It's why they traded for Butler. When Butler didn't resign they were screwed because if Jimmy Butler doesn't want to stay in Philly who wants to go to Philly. 

Embiid was a luck pick because without the medical red flags of his back or foot Clevland is drafting him over Wiggins, Wiggy goes to Mil and Parker is probably on the 76ers which would've been interesting. The 76ers also knew Ben's issues and personality but chose to ignore it because they had the mindset we can fix Ben and Brown is a family friend he'd listen too. Wrong and then babying him and enabling his behavior didn't help. Given their roster structure at the time Ben was the wrong move and they needed more floor spacing and shooting in Brandon Ingram. Looking at that draft now neither guy was worth the hype but Ignram has turned into a really nice player where Ben is a lockeroom malcontent who is represented by horrible people. The 76ers got some decent players right now in Thybule and Maxey to build around. Joel who knows how much longer he can play before his knees really give out though. Curry is good. Harris was overpaid as a knee jerk reaction to losing Butler and thats a move they are gonna regret. 

Honestly if there's a way I'd try and package Tobias with Ben and see who might bite. Those are some big contracts but if you have a 3rd team involved I think something could come into fruition. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
At this point, I assume the Sixers are trying to get Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Caris LeVert, or possibly Jerami Grant while trying not to give up Maxey or Thybulle.  If Lillard and Beal are off of the table, those guys best fill their needs -- so whichever is cheapest . . . .
Click to expand...


So I was looking for something else on the Sixers and ran into a possible another issue in trading Simmons. Article from Yesterday said Keith Pompey reported 2 sixers are unvaccinated one is a guy end of bench hardly plays but Pompey reported Ben Simmons is not vaccinated. Not sure if that could lead to other issues in trading for him and what the sixers get back but another thing to keep in mind with the Ben Simmons Circus 

 
Bradley Beal being outta DC is pretty much 100% at this point IMO.  I have a fairly good source that said he was out the door before the draft, which obviously didn't happen.  And now with the team imploding (which has a lot to do with him)...he either looks lost in Unseld's offense or like he's not trying.  Hard to tell. It is really hurting the team.  His worst 3pt shooting ever was last year at 36%.  He is shooting 27% this year.  And getting to the line less.  His age could be showing given his body is small and has taken a beating.

I don't see him staying after this year, nor the Wiz wanting him for a super max deal, nor him being happy here.  You gotta think he ends up at a contender before the trade deadline.  Someone that needs a solid second/third fiddle as a rental for the rest of the year.  And maybe the Wiz get some picks and trash in return so they can clear salary and move on.  They have a decent young core of role players, but they need a true star if they are gonna sustain the type of play they had earlier this year.  Beal is simply proving he can't carry that load.

It's time for an amicable divorce IMO.

 
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trader jake said:
Congrats to Steph Curry on breaking the all-time 3pt made record.  🏀  He's the best shooter in basketball history...seems right he should have that record.
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he seemed genuinely affected by the moment. nice to see in an era where, if your publicist dont recommend it, you dont do it. more power to him & congrats.

 
just do we have a clear record saying the greatest shooter in the history of the game wouldnt be good in some prior era is really a heres your sign type thing take that to the bank brohans 

 
jace frederick

@JaceFrederick

I suggested to Karl-Anthony Towns that Anthony Edwards thinks he's the best shooter on the team.

KAT: "Ant thinks he’s the best baseball player, football player, skier, curler, walker, runner."

Ant: “Anything with a player behind it, I’m the best in the world.”
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How do you not love this guy?

 
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DJackson10 said:
AI also had addiction problems with both drinking and gambling. The 76ers for yrs protected him on those issues. At the end of his career AI was on a very steep decline where his off the court issues couldn't be defended by his play anymore. 
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James influence is starting to wane for sure as he gets older.  It is just fatigue and again the 'Twitter" factor shows people lack of awareness and James has been guilty too many times.

But he wil never be like AI.  AI was an alcoholic with a gambling addiction, and had marital problems as well. 

 
Isiah Thomas and LeBron together again. Fantastic. Can't believe they haven't been able to find a way to work Ilgauskas onto the roster yet. Now that Davis is injured (again) maybe they'll convince Shaq to sign a 10 day contract too. Why the heck not at this point?

 
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This is going to be such a ludicrous post. It comes from a guy, who, thirty years ago, wondered why colleges didn't just shoot threes all game. Like Duke did in the mid-to-late 90s. Pick and pop. Down low and back out on the double. 

The NBA adopted this strategy league-wide (I think) about a decade ago with better shooters. It was about time, even to the most casual observers of their talents and their shooting prowess. 

I just can't believe it took them twenty-thirty years to figure it out. 

What's my point? Well, it's twofold. First, the NFL is at a crossroads with going for it on fourth-and. Some day, there won't even be a second-guess when a guy like Staley goes for it and it doesn't work. IT'S THE RIGHT MOVE. 

Sports move and progress.

Second point: You guys got to watch a New Golden Age with the Warriors. They blessed everyone with their prowess and presence. 

From the most casual fan (again), Steph could have dominated any era they let him shoot in after the three was instituted. He is that good. You're witnessing generational greatness when you watch him. It's sick. 

I love it. I loved watching them casually this past decade. You all got to watch something that revolutionized the sport, something truly special. 

That is all. 

 
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rockaction said:
This is going to be such a ludicrous post. It comes from a guy, who, thirty years ago, wondered why colleges didn't just shoot threes all game. Like Duke did in the mid-to-late 90s. Pick and pop. Down low and back out on the double. 

The NBA adopted this strategy league-wide (I think) about a decade ago with better shooters. It was about time, even to the most casual observers of their talents and their shooting prowess. 

I just can't believe it took them twenty-thirty years to figure it out. 

What's my point? Well, it's twofold. First, the NFL is at a crossroads with going for it on fourth-and. Some day, there won't even be a second-guess when a guy like Staley goes for it and it doesn't work. IT'S THE RIGHT MOVE. 

Sports move and progress.

Second point: You guys got to watch a the New Golden Age with the Warriors. They blessed everyone with their prowess and presence. 

From the most casual fan (again) Steph could have dominated any era they let him shoot in after the three was instituted. He is that good. You're witnessing generational greatness when you watch him. It's sick. 

I love it. I loved watching them casually this past decade. You all got to watch something that revolutionized the sport, something truly special. 

That is all. 
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Good stuff.

Interestingly, Kentucky took 5 more threes per game in 1992-93 than Duke took in say, 1995-96. They were fairly equal in 3-pt shooting most seasons in the 1990s.  I always thought of Arizona as a trey gunner team….but they really weren’t that different than Duke or Kentucky most seasons in the mid-late 90s.

 
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Alex P Keaton said:
Good stuff.

Interestingly, Kentucky took 5 more threes per game in 1992-93 than Duke took in say, 1995-96. They were fairly equal in 3-pt shooting most seasons in the 1990s.  I always thought of Arizona as a trey gunner team….but they really weren’t that different than Duke or Kentucky most seasons in the mid-late 90s.
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Yeah, I began to notice Duke really doing that come '99. As a UConn fan, I watched as much Duke as possible that year, and that's when it really stuck out to me. Tragan Langdon and others fired away at will, IIRC. Perhaps that's just my faulty memory, but something about me remembers that. 

I remember the Bibby Arizona teams. Miles Simon in '97 with Bibby? They won it. 

No surprise about Kentucky. They're often at the vanguard of college hoops. 

Nice post, thanks for the memory stir. 

 
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rockaction said:
Yeah, I began to notice Duke really doing that come '99. As a UConn fan, I watched as much Duke as possible that year, and that's when it really stuck out to me. Tragan Langdon, Battier, Will Avery, and others fired away at will, IIRC. Perhaps that's just my faulty memory, but something about me remembers that. 

I remember the Bibby Arizona teams. Miles Simon in '97 with Bibby? They won it. 

No surprise about Kentucky. They're often at the vanguard of college hoops. 

Nice post, thanks for the memory stir. 
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To my eye, those Kentucky and Arizona teams were the closest to playing modern basketball back then.  My son and I watched a ton of classic NCAA tourney games early in Covid.  It was painful to watch mid-80s games with no 3-pt line.   1992 Duke vs Kentucky was fun — the first truly modern game we watched.  1997 Arizona was one of the most memorable and enjoyable teams in tourney history.  (Don’t tell @trader jake I said that though)

 
Alex P Keaton said:
To my eye, those Kentucky and Arizona teams were the closest to playing modern basketball back then.  My son and I watched a ton of classic NCAA tourney games early in Covid.  It was painful to watch mid-80s games with no 3-pt line.   1992 Duke vs Kentucky was fun — the first truly modern game we watched.  1997 Arizona was one of the most memorable and enjoyable teams in tourney history.  (Don’t tell @trader jake I said that though)
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Arizona -- that particular team -- is the reason why I don't gamble on sports anymore. They played Providence in the Elite Eight that year. I had money on Providence, giving eight, to win. Providence hangs all game, and I'm getting ready, thinking I'm winning several hundred dollars. Austin Croshere and God Shammgod were on Providence. Anyway, Providence is tied, five seconds left, ball inbounds to Providence. Shammgod can't find Croshere and the game goes to OT, Arizona wins. Lost my fifty bucks that I needed desperately. I will just not gamble on sports again, unless I'm at the casino and am bored and want to watch a game with some interest. And even then I want to know the teams cold and will only bet about twenty bucks. 

 
Also, Battier did not play for Duke in 1999. UConn beat them again in 2004, IIRC. In the semis, with Rashad Anderson hitting a big three. I edited my post to reflect the lack of Battier. 

 
rockaction said:
This is going to be such a ludicrous post. It comes from a guy, who, thirty years ago, wondered why colleges didn't just shoot threes all game. Like Duke did in the mid-to-late 90s. Pick and pop. Down low and back out on the double. 

The NBA adopted this strategy league-wide (I think) about a decade ago with better shooters. It was about time, even to the most casual observers of their talents and their shooting prowess. 
Click to expand...


The 3-Point Revolution

https://shottracker.com/articles/the-3-point-revolution

2002 NBA Western Conference Finals Lakers vs. Kings

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2002-nba-western-conference-finals-lakers-vs-kings.html

******

The league's cooked reffing, driven by David Stern, brought this upon itself and catalyzed an informal change by all teams.

It's not a secret that David Stern wanted certain teams and certain players to move forward in the playoffs in certain years to fulfill a specific "narrative" for that season.

Mark Cuban used to get fined all the time for criticizing the reffing and Phil Jackson, being the Zen troll and the smug beneficiary of much of Stern's cooking, simply said, "Everyone in this league has to wait their turn"

The implication is it wasn't enough to be good, if you wanted to be a true contender or win a draft lottery, then Stern had to want it that way. It's also not a secret that the massive shoe brands had tremendous influence on the NBA and wanted a return on their investment to see their own players, the ones who were their Signature athletes, end up in the Finals with the most marketing and most national attention created by the league's cooking.

The trend IMHO truly informally started after the Kings and Lakers battled it out in 2002 and Stern just ordered the refs to completely cook Sacramento. The Nets that year were not going to beat either of those teams, so the WCF were essentially going to be the de facto NBA Finals. And Stern wasn't going to let cow town Sacramento be seen as the crown jewel of league's marketing for the next several years afterwards if they won. That's what happens, if you win a ring, your team gets upped in it's prestige and the number of national games it gets and the kind of marketing it gets.

The refs can cheat you on close contact. You fouled someone. Or they can just let someone else foul you into the ground without blowing a whistle. But you can't really juice someone shooting a three point shot.

Steph Curry spurned Nike. They didn't see his value until too late and couldn't reel him in so of course they want to punish him and his style of play. They gave LeBron James a lifetime contract. They want a return on that investment. LeMao was a fixture in the playoffs until last year, and Trae Young emerged as a threat to force his way deep into the playoffs and bring down teams with more marketable players, so the rules had to change. The 2014 season was the one where the last few holdout teams basically gave up on the mid range jumper. They would still use it, but in the playoffs and as a complimentary shot.

I don't see the pathway from this point on as hard. Nike will try to force the league to "redefine" what is considered a legal screen. (To limit teams using strategy to get their shooters open looks) They'll probably want to drag out the three point line further. And they'll want any fouls behind the arc to turn into just one free throw attempt instead of three of them. But the unintentionally hilarious part is LeQuit only wants to play one style of basketball, where he's surrounded by three point shooters to bail him out. And Nike gave him a lifetime contract.

Steph Curry is a human cheat code. The league has tolerated some ugly hard contact against him his entire career. He doesn't flop and he doesn't complain about bad calls. They don't want him to be this dominant and they can't stop him. Nike doesn't want free flowing team basketball like Steve Kerr has designed. They want highlight reel hero ball because it sells shoes.

More teams are gunning it from long range because it's a skill you can develop post draft that will give you longevity in the league and will save your legs for a longer career. And the refs can't really cheat you on it. Look at Allen Iverson. The refs despised him and even Stern kind of despised him ( You can't be the kind of player Stern doesn't want to market and force your way to the end of the playoffs on sheer will)  and once he started to fall apart, he had no three point shot to extend his career. He lost several steps and the refs just let anyone and everyone batter him even more.

Stern really just wanted 5-6 specific player he hand chose for marketing the league to be the ones to have the ability to create their own shot at will. He wanted the rules to reflect that. Then the entire talent pool adjusted. More players are more talented and more athletic and removing handchecking opened up Pandora's Box on who could start to consistently create their own shot.

What Stern had to do to market the league when he started became obsolete at the end of his run. But he refused to change. He wanted to manipulate the league even when actually letting the players just play probably would have panned out against the profit margin and the ratings margin as he wanted.

Don Nelson and Mike D'Antoni revolutionized the entire game. Nellieball and Seven Seconds Or Less were designed by intent to overcome the reality that Stern was going to try to actively screw over any team not picked as the chosen few for "The Narrative"

Natural law - When you keep trying to #### people over, they adapt and find a way to shove their fist down your throat.

 
I agree with you about Stern and that Sacramento series, GG. 

I also agree that Stern was sort of a poison to the game itself, even if he oversaw its explosion into the popular consciousness. I'm not a big fan of Stern nor his ways. 

Donaghy placed several thousand calls and text messages in one month to another "friend" that happened to be a referee. My friends and I laughed at this disclosure. We were tight and spoke daily. Were there thousands of messages in a month? No effing way. We would have told each other to stop. It was more sinister, of course, than simple friendship, but Stern simply declared the gambling and fixing investigations over and said there would be no further examination of the allegations. 

It was a joke. Stern, Goodell, the lot of them are crooks, because the owners are crooks and billionaires and that's who they represent. So, Stern, in ####### over Sacramento and those great Kings teams, was really acting at the behest of the majority of the billionaires in the club. They were ####### each other over. That's why "turns" become important. 

I know you write long posts. I try to tackle their substance. I think you often take a good idea and reach a little, but your thoughts are in the right place on this one. I hope my contribution to your thoughts does them a bit of justice, even if I can't fully get on board with some of your inferences. 

 
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