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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)

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hate to pull a Celtics' fan move here, but man, not sure how they want to call that a flagrant. refs certainly helping to keep this game close, which is probably a better thing for the Sixers so they don't go soft

 
Major said:
I don't get it either.  I think Morant was just frustrated when he tweeted and everyone else piled on to ride the wave/get views.  He barely touched his knee after going for a steal 🤷‍♂️.  It's a shame Morant is probably out for Game 4.  
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How fragile are Morant’s knees that 110 lb Jordan Poole could injure him on that play?

 
Major said:
If Dallas ends up beating the Suns, the odds to win will inevitably increase.  Can you cash out early for a discount or is this an all or nothing type bet?  Note: novice sports gambler here
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the +4000 is locked in. dallas has to win it all or i lose. the odds change a little with every game. no cashing out early. the bet is dallas wins it all.

 
is there a "number of times on the floor" stat?

does Embiid dominate that stat or is there someone in the league with a higher per minute rate of hitting the deck?

 
identikit said:
Unlikely

Series tied up...they're already back in
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Yeah, this team with a healthy Embid and a functioning Harden is a tough out especially with Maxey picking up the slack.   I wouldn't bet on Harden though.  It was cool seeing him make some big shots in the 4th. Been a few years. 

 
Jayrod said:
My title rankings right now:

  1. Phoenix - yeah, yeah, yeah...they lost 2 to NOLA. They just handled Dallas and will win this series in 5 or 6.  They have offense, defense, leadership and depth.  Without losing any of their top 4 guys, they are the best team in the NBA.
  2. Milwaukee - Giannis is the best player in the world when he is playing hard for 35-40 minutes/game.  Holiday is a great defender and a good offensive player.  Lopez is a great stretch 5 and Portis is a versatile addition.  Get Middleton with his scoring and defensive length back and they are a title contender again.  Until Boston beats them, they stay here.
  3. Golden State - Curry, Thompson & now Poole...an embarrassment of riches coupled with a DPOY level #### stirrer in Draymond and they can beat anyone.  I think they are a tad less consistent than the 2 teams above and are prone to gaffs/injuries/suspensions that can cost them a game/series.
  4. Boston - They belong in the conversation as a team with 2 great scorers and great team defense.  If they can take advantage of the Middleton injury have a good shot to make the Finals.  Have to win tonight or the sky is falling.
  5. Heat - Pretty low for a #1 seed with no major injuries, but they are the epitome of good not great.  If any of the above teams play their A game, the Heat can't hang.  But play your B game and they will beat you every time.
  6. Memphis - Ja and company are fun, exciting, energetic and athletic.  But they are dumb and just don't know how to get it done in the playoffs yet.  I think GS beats them in 5 or 6 and it is never in doubt.
  7. Dallas - Luka is good enough and the defense will show up better than game 1.  I don't know about Kidd as a championship coach and I don't know if they have enough firepower on offense to help Luka win a championship.  Awful lot of hurdles to jump to get into the legit conversation.
  8. Philly - I may have had them here even without the Embiid injury.  With it, they are the worst team left in the playoffs and will probably get swept by a good, not great, Heat team.
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Clearly I know nothing.

Updated title rankings, which mean nothing and will be worthless after the next 4 games:

  1. Milwaukee - the Champs look good so far and have Boston on the ropes.  Giannis playing like the best player in the world.
  2. Golden State - they are much better than Memphis anyway and now Morant is doubtful tonight.
  3. Phoenix - still think they get through Dallas, but they have a fight on their hands.  Looking forward to GS/PHX.
  4. Dallas - I've only watched a couple of minutes of this series, but clearly they are better than I thought in my previous post.
  5. Boston - They made a lot of mistakes in game 3 and lost by 2.  Wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out game 4 tonight.
  6. Philly - Embiid is back and Harden showed up.  Don't think they are as good as Boston or Milwaukee, but I think they'll win this series now.
  7. Memphis - this is the only team where I am confident in my assessment.  They are talented, but too young and dumb to get past Golden State, much less Phoenix (or even Dallas).
  8. Miami - they have blown a chance to walk into the ECF.  They may still pull it out, but they look outmatched suddenly. I'll give Spo the benefit of the doubt, but I'm so confused as to why Duncan Robinson can't even get on the floor.
 
Insein said:
Lol Jokic. Ok
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Just curious why Jokic being MVP again is somehow controversial. He led the league in PER, Win Shares, Box +/-, VORP, and rebounds. His PER rating was the highest in league history, and he was the first player to hit 2000/1000/500 in a season. And he played without the Nuggets #2 and #3 best players all season. what's the knock on Jokic that makes his selection unworthy?

 
Anarchy99 said:
Just curious why Jokic being MVP again is somehow controversial. He led the league in PER, Win Shares, Box +/-, VORP, and rebounds. His PER rating was the highest in league history, and he was the first player to hit 2000/1000/500 in a season. And he played without the Nuggets #2 and #3 best players all season. what's the knock on Jokic that makes his selection unworthy?
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Embiid was better

 
Jayrod said:
:shrug:

Regular season award.  He earned it.  He just had one of the greatest advanced stats seasons of all time...like across the board the best.
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Only saw a couple of their games, so just a small sample. When he's not in they're simply not competitive. So, adding in the gaudy stats, I don't see anyone would strongly object to him being MVP. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Just curious why Jokic being MVP again is somehow controversial. He led the league in PER, Win Shares, Box +/-, VORP, and rebounds. His PER rating was the highest in league history, and he was the first player to hit 2000/1000/500 in a season. And he played without the Nuggets #2 and #3 best players all season. what's the knock on Jokic that makes his selection unworthy?
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Because Insein is a 76er fan and Jokic isn't a 76er. In reality there was no wrong answer out of the top 3. 

 
Insein said:
Embiid was better
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Embiid was better because . . . ?

The Sixers won three more games than the Nuggets. Denver was without their #2 and #3 players. Sure, the Sixers didn't have Simmons, but they had one of Harden / Curry most of the season, to go along with Maxey and Harris. Those three spots averaged 52 ppg. The trio of Gordon, Barton, and Morris for Denver averaged 42 ppg. Jokic led the league with 19 triple doubles. What more was he supposed to do? The Nuggets lost 40 ppg by not having Murray and Porter with them out (made up for (and then some) by Jokic and some lesser players).

Whenever I watched Jokic this year he was a beast. Sure, Embiid was strong when I watched him as well, but I remember the Sixers getting blown out by Boston by 48 with Embiid putting up 19 points (and another loss to the C's when he only scored 13).

IIRC, Sixers were 13 points better with Embiid on the court. Nuggets were 16 points better with Jokic. Embiid (or Giannis) in other years probably could have won. But not this year.

 
Insein said:
Lol Jokic. Ok
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I'm disappointed too and I think Embiid is just as deserving, but you can't really laugh at Jokic getting it, he deserved it too.  Was really a coin flip.  Sucks, but I'd be more upset if it was given to someone else who didn't deserve it.

 
Insein said:
Ok
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Advanced stats are the best thing we have to compare across the league for total impact and winning basketball.  It helps capture things other traditional counting stats don't like screening, help side defense, deflections, shots altered, in-game communication, hockey assists, etc.

Jokic helped his team score more points, hold the opponent to fewer points and win more games than maybe anyone in the history of the NBA.  He makes the best possible play most times and is incredibly efficient with the ball.

Not sure how else to say it.  I'm a Celtics fan so my love for Jokic is purely based upon his individual greatness.  Everything I've seen this year (including watching him play whenever I could) tells me he was the best player in the league and I'm not alone.  I've been calling for him to be MVP for 3+ months now.

Sure, Embiid has the ability to outplay Jokic one on one for a game or two.  I personally think Giannis is a better player than them both over a single game or playoff series, but neither Embiid or Giannis played to their potential as often or as consistently as Jokic did this year during the regular season.  I'm not surprised Denver couldn't get out of the first round at all.  Doesn't impact the MVP voting, though.

 
Jayrod said:
:scared:  Boston in 6?

Next 3 games should be night games, but game 7 would probably be a day game on Sunday.
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IIRC, of the last 12 Game 7's in the second round or later, only one was a day game. The one exception was POR / DEN in 2019 . . . and that's because there was also a Game 7 between TOR and PHI that night (with the famous Kawhi buzzer beater).

 
Jayrod said:
Clearly I know nothing.

Updated title rankings, which mean nothing and will be worthless after the next 4 games:

  1. Milwaukee - the Champs look good so far and have Boston on the ropes.  Giannis playing like the best player in the world.
  2. Golden State - they are much better than Memphis anyway and now Morant is doubtful tonight.
  3. Phoenix - still think they get through Dallas, but they have a fight on their hands.  Looking forward to GS/PHX.
  4. Dallas - I've only watched a couple of minutes of this series, but clearly they are better than I thought in my previous post.
  5. Boston - They made a lot of mistakes in game 3 and lost by 2.  Wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out game 4 tonight.
  6. Philly - Embiid is back and Harden showed up.  Don't think they are as good as Boston or Milwaukee, but I think they'll win this series now.
  7. Memphis - this is the only team where I am confident in my assessment.  They are talented, but too young and dumb to get past Golden State, much less Phoenix (or even Dallas).
  8. Miami - they have blown a chance to walk into the ECF.  They may still pull it out, but they look outmatched suddenly. I'll give Spo the benefit of the doubt, but I'm so confused as to why Duncan Robinson can't even get on the floor.
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Am I still a homer? This aligns a lot more with my original rankings xD

 
Day games in basketball matter?  I've heard some discussion about baseball and football but not sure how that translates to basketball.

 
AAABatteries said:
Day games in basketball matter?  I've heard some discussion about baseball and football but not sure how that translates to basketball.
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The Celtics are something like 5-21 or 5-22 in day games the last two seasons. Winning only 20% of them is curious . . . but I am not sure there is tangible reason to explain that.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The Celtics are something like 5-21 or 5-22 in day games the last two seasons. Winning only 20% of them is curious . . . but I am not sure there is tangible reason to explain that.
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As a player, I disliked them.  Basketball is a rhythm game and shooting has a lot of "feel" involved. Any kind of discomfort can greatly affect shooting. I wonder how much of it has to do with Tatum and his regular routines?

 
Jayrod said:
Advanced stats are the best thing we have to compare across the league for total impact and winning basketball.  It helps capture things other traditional counting stats don't like screening, help side defense, deflections, shots altered, in-game communication, hockey assists, etc.

Jokic helped his team score more points, hold the opponent to fewer points and win more games than maybe anyone in the history of the NBA.  He makes the best possible play most times and is incredibly efficient with the ball.

Not sure how else to say it.  I'm a Celtics fan so my love for Jokic is purely based upon his individual greatness.  Everything I've seen this year (including watching him play whenever I could) tells me he was the best player in the league and I'm not alone.  I've been calling for him to be MVP for 3+ months now.

Sure, Embiid has the ability to outplay Jokic one on one for a game or two.  I personally think Giannis is a better player than them both over a single game or playoff series, but neither Embiid or Giannis played to their potential as often or as consistently as Jokic did this year during the regular season.  I'm not surprised Denver couldn't get out of the first round at all.  Doesn't impact the MVP voting, though.
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Ok

 
Jayrod said:
Clearly I know nothing.

Updated title rankings, which mean nothing and will be worthless after the next 4 games:

  1. Milwaukee - the Champs look good so far and have Boston on the ropes.  Giannis playing like the best player in the world.
  2. Golden State - they are much better than Memphis anyway and now Morant is doubtful tonight.
  3. Phoenix - still think they get through Dallas, but they have a fight on their hands.  Looking forward to GS/PHX.
  4. Dallas - I've only watched a couple of minutes of this series, but clearly they are better than I thought in my previous post.
  5. Boston - They made a lot of mistakes in game 3 and lost by 2.  Wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out game 4 tonight.
  6. Philly - Embiid is back and Harden showed up.  Don't think they are as good as Boston or Milwaukee, but I think they'll win this series now.
  7. Memphis - this is the only team where I am confident in my assessment.  They are talented, but too young and dumb to get past Golden State, much less Phoenix (or even Dallas).
  8. Miami - they have blown a chance to walk into the ECF.  They may still pull it out, but they look outmatched suddenly. I'll give Spo the benefit of the doubt, but I'm so confused as to why Duncan Robinson can't even get on the floor.
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There are two things that haven't yet happened in the Milwaukee/Boston series - Bucks hitting a bunch of threes, and a Tatum game.  I expect the former tonight, and the latter on Wednesday in Boston.  Bucks win on Friday to take the series.

#BucksIn6

 
Jayrod said:
Clearly I know nothing.

Updated title rankings, which mean nothing and will be worthless after the next 4 games:

  1. Milwaukee - the Champs look good so far and have Boston on the ropes.  Giannis playing like the best player in the world.
  2. Golden State - they are much better than Memphis anyway and now Morant is doubtful tonight.
  3. Phoenix - still think they get through Dallas, but they have a fight on their hands.  Looking forward to GS/PHX.
  4. Dallas - I've only watched a couple of minutes of this series, but clearly they are better than I thought in my previous post.
  5. Boston - They made a lot of mistakes in game 3 and lost by 2.  Wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out game 4 tonight.
  6. Philly - Embiid is back and Harden showed up.  Don't think they are as good as Boston or Milwaukee, but I think they'll win this series now.
  7. Memphis - this is the only team where I am confident in my assessment.  They are talented, but too young and dumb to get past Golden State, much less Phoenix (or even Dallas).
  8. Miami - they have blown a chance to walk into the ECF.  They may still pull it out, but they look outmatched suddenly. I'll give Spo the benefit of the doubt, but I'm so confused as to why Duncan Robinson can't even get on the floor.
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I think the Suns, Bucks and Celtics are all pretty even. It really sucks that the Celtics and Bucks are the 2nd round match up and not the East finals. 

I think the Warriors are in this next tier all by themselves. I think they could beat the 3 teams I mentioned above in a series , but it will take a combo of a couple great games by 2 of their big 3 (Klay, Curry and Poole) and a couple sub par games by the teams above. 

Dallas is next in a tier by themselves too. The same thing I said about the Warriors applies to Dallas. Luka has to be nearly flawless and they need the hot shooting they had in game 4. I would still be shocked if they beat the Suns and even more if they made or won the finals. 

The next 3 are all in the last tier. Miami should be with Dallas, but something is off. That Heat mentality they had in the bubble seems to not resonate with some of this group. I think the Grizz have peaked this year and losing Morant for game 4 makes it worse. It is hard to figure out the 76ers. Are they making a comeback because they are figuring it out or because the Heat just don't look right. I am going with the second, but really who knows. 

I am starting to get the feeling that Giannis is going to go full Lebron and carry the Bucks to the finals no matter what. 

 
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msudaisy26 said:
I think the Suns, Bucks and Celtics are all pretty even. It really sucks that the Celtics and Bucks are the 2nd round match up and not the East finals. 

I think the Warriors are in this next tier all by themselves. I think they could beat the 3 teams I mentioned in a series , but it will take a combo of a couple great games by 2 of their big 3 (Klay, Curry and Poole) and a couple sub par games by the teams above. 

Dallas is next in a tier by themselves too. The same thing I said about the Warriors applies to Dallas. Luka has to be nearly flawless and they need the hot shooting they had in game 4. I would still be shocked if they beat the Suns and even more if they made or won the finals. 

The next 3 are all in the last tier. Miami should be with Dallas, but something is off. That Heat mentality they had in the bubble seems to not resonate with some of this group. I think the Grizz have peaked this year and losing Morant for game 4 makes it worse. It is hard to figure out the 76ers. Are they making a comeback because they are figuring it out or because the Heat just don't look right. I am going with the second, but really who knows. 
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Yeah, this is a good breakdown.   Still think the Warriors are being overvalued and the Suns aren’t getting enough respect.   Just absolutely hate the idea of losing a conference finals to CP….

 
My dream would be a Giannis/Steph Finals.  Even with a lottery ticket wager made in Feb on Boston, I'd be elated with GS/MIL.  My twins are digging on the NBA playoffs and at 6 they know how special Giannis and Steph are to watch.  They like Luca too, but the Greek Freak and Curry just have.....IT.  

And I hope if Giannis wins again he goes back to Chick-fil-A and orders 100 M nuggets.  Need a new video to show the boys before bedtime.  

 
Jayrod said:
:shrug:

Regular season award.  He earned it.  He just had one of the greatest advanced stats seasons of all time...like across the board the best.
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 And that is the problem: voters are getting too hung on a bunch of stats that no one cared about before now.  Does anyone really think Jokic is better or more valuable than Giannis? I mean, seriously?  Seems like Giannis is now in that MJ/LeBron realm where it's boring to just give it to him every year, so voters manufacture reasons to give it to anyone else. 

 
General Malaise said:
My dream would be a Giannis/Steph Finals.  Even with a lottery ticket wager made in Feb on Boston, I'd be elated with GS/MIL.  My twins are digging on the NBA playoffs and at 6 they know how special Giannis and Steph are to watch.  They like Luca too, but the Greek Freak and Curry just have.....IT.  

And I hope if Giannis wins again he goes back to Chick-fil-A and orders 100 M nuggets.  Need a new video to show the boys before bedtime.  
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That would be my dream finals too.  Especially if it means seeing a game in the Bay Area with my son, and a game in Milwaukee with @trader jake

 
Instinctive said:
Navin Johnson said:
To be fair, there are only like five people here that understand the NBA traveling rule and ~90% of the non-calls that the casuals whine about are clean moves.
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This is the real answer. They mostly don't miss traveling people just don't know what traveling is and isn't. 
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They miss a lot of calls where a player changes his pivot foot. I think more than five people here understand that element of traveling.

 
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Ghost Rider said:
 And that is the problem: voters are getting too hung on a bunch of stats that no one cared about before now.  Does anyone really think Jokic is better or more valuable than Giannis? I mean, seriously?  Seems like Giannis is now in that MJ/LeBron realm where it's boring to just give it to him every year, so voters manufacture reasons to give it to anyone else. 
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I disagree with this take. Giannis is a better player than Jokic for sure. That does not mean he was automatically more valuable to his team this season than Jokic was. Context matters.

For example, take Jokic and Giannis off their teams for the entire regular season... which team has a bigger delta in wins? IMO Denver suffers more, and it isn't close.

That isn't a knock on Giannis. It reflects that the Bucks had a much better team around him than Denver did around Jokic this season, accounting for injuries.

EDIT: I can make a case that Jordan should have been MVP the years Barkley and Malone won. Not sure there are any other compelling cases, but interested to hear if I'm missing any. As for Lebron, make a case that he should have won in any season that he didn't win. I'm interested to hear it. I am not currently under the impression that Lebron was shorted any legit MVPs.

 
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Just Win Baby said:
I disagree with this take. Giannis is a better player than Jokic for sure. That does not mean he was automatically more valuable to his team this season than Jokic was. Context matters.

For example, take Jokic and Giannis off their teams for the entire regular season... which team has a bigger delta in wins? IMO Denver suffers more, and it isn't close.

That isn't a knock on Giannis. It reflects that the Bucks had a much better team around him than Denver did around Jokic this season, accounting for injuries.

EDIT: I can make a case that Jordan should have been MVP the year Barkley won. Not sure there are any other compelling cases, but interested to hear if I'm missing any. As for Lebron, make a case that he should have won in any season that he didn't win. I'm interested to hear it. I am not currently under the impression that Lebron was shorted any legit MVPs.
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Yep.  It’s funny how people want to “interpret” the Most Valuable Player award as “best player award.”  It literally isn’t the name of the award.   Just read the name out loud. It’s not complicated.

And yes, Giannis is the best player in the NBA right now.  And Jokic was the MVP.  And that’s ok.

 
odds to win it all

Warriors (now the favorite)  +215

Suns (stay away they're done)  +270

Bucks (excellent hedge)  +475 

Celtics (also excellent hedge)  +600

Miami (no chance)  +800

Sixers (nice #, but nah)  +1600

Dallas (not +4k like me, but great opportunity)  +2200

Griz (yeah, nevermind)  +4500

 
Chaos Commish said:
odds to win it all

Warriors (now the favorite)  +215

Suns (stay away they're done)  +270

Bucks (excellent hedge)  +475 

Celtics (also excellent hedge)  +600

Miami (no chance)  +800

Sixers (nice #, but nah)  +1600

Dallas (not +4k like me, but great opportunity)  +2200

Griz (yeah, nevermind)  +4500
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I would short the Warriors and buy the Bucks. Probably would buy the Mavs too.

 
At the game. Boston players (especially Grant Williams) NONSTOP whining to the refs at EVERY SINGLE LOOSE BALL.

 
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