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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (1 Viewer)

Steve Tasker said:
I'm kinda on the fence on Whaley.  I don't think he should be fired immediately but how long do you give the guy if they keep missing the playoffs?  This will be his 4th full season as GM and the team doesn't really seem to be in a better position now than they were 4 years ago.
I blame the coaching situation more than him. How was he supposed to know Marrone would flake out? True, Whaley signed him to that terrible contract with the opt out, but what guy opts out of a team with a winning season after 1 year? Nobody except wackos like Doug Marrone.

Then, I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that Rex was more of a Pegula hire than Whaley's choice. Am I wrong there? I might be misremebering things...

 
I blame the coaching situation more than him. How was he supposed to know Marrone would flake out? True, Whaley signed him to that terrible contract with the opt out, but what guy opts out of a team with a winning season after 1 year? Nobody except wackos like Doug Marrone.

Then, I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that Rex was more of a Pegula hire than Whaley's choice. Am I wrong there? I might be misremebering things...
We will never know for sure, but when Rex was hired it was after an interview on Pegulas boat in FL. Whaley's job security wasn't very good and they were talking about hiring a football czar, Bill Polian, until Marrone opted out.

I agree about not blaming Whaley. He gets blamed by a lot of fans but they don't look at the big picture. This was a team that was awful for years. Moorman was one of our best players, a punter! Whaley brought in a lot of players that are very good. Sure, he has missed on some guys, just like all GMs. For some reason he is consistently blamed for the EJ Manuel pick, made by Buddy Nix.

A lot of heat is on the team, and for good reason. They took what appeared to be a top 5 defense and handed the reigns over to a 3-4 defensive minded coach who couldn't win with the personnel. So instead of addressing the offensive side of the ball and having a great defense these past 2 seasons, we are fixing a defense that didn't need to be fixed. Considering Rex is likely a Pegula hire, it's difficult to blame Whaley. He built a great defense, now has to rebuild it again because Rex couldnt use the talent he had. All the while, our WRs and OL has been completely disregarded because of this.

 
Seems like Bush is on his way out so he won't be a threat for some PT.  Gillislee has been the #2 RB so far as it seems Williams isn't ready yet, so go for it I'd say
One could hope. I didn't believe in Bush. Rex said all along Gillislee was the #2. A lot of us are waiting for Williams to be that guy to fill the role vacated by Karlos Williams (who is still available, and the Bills released Jordan Gay with no subsequent addition to the roster). Last year the Bills were able to sustain some long drives and by the time they got down to the red zone, McCoy would get a breather and the fresh legs of Karlos would overpower the defense en route to a TD. For Gillislee to have any value, the offense needs to sustain some long drives. I'm not sure when, if ever, that is going to happen this year. A big disappointment so far. Being a Bills fan is being on an old wooden roller coaster. Once in a while it will give you some excitement but most of the time it leads to nausea and a headache.

 
I don't think Whaley has even got to hire a head coach yet. 

Some of his moves don't mesh with the style that either of the coaches under him had: Watkins and Clay in particular. 

 
I don't think Whaley has even got to hire a head coach yet. 

Some of his moves don't mesh with the style that either of the coaches under him had: Watkins and Clay in particular. 
Marrone was a buffoon. Whaley brought Clay and Watkins in because Marrone was going to revolutionize the NFL.

I would agree about personnel though. They have Watkins, Clay and Shady, but were trying some variation of a power run game. Shady is a finesse runner and Watkins needs to get vertical and in space. Clay has been ridiculously underutilized as well. The personnel is there, they just need someone who knows how to use it. But then again, Rex couldn't use the personnel he was gift wrapped either.

 
I don't think Whaley has even got to hire a head coach yet. 

Some of his moves don't mesh with the style that either of the coaches under him had: Watkins and Clay in particular. 
To take it a step further, Watkins and Clay were probably brought in with the plan that they'd have a stop gap, game manager (Manuel, Cassell) type QB until they can draft a traditional franchise pocket passer type. They fit both of those guys fit those types of offenses better than this read-option, ignore the middle of the field type they are running now. Rex loved Tyrod, so I'm sure if Rex weren't here Whaley probably wouldn't have brought in that type of QB.

 
To take it a step further, Watkins and Clay were probably brought in with the plan that they'd have a stop gap, game manager (Manuel, Cassell) type QB until they can draft a traditional franchise pocket passer type. They fit both of those guys fit those types of offenses better than this read-option, ignore the middle of the field type they are running now. Rex loved Tyrod, so I'm sure if Rex weren't here Whaley probably wouldn't have brought in that type of QB.
Tyrod was pretty much unheard of up til Rex was hired. At least from the Bills fans perspective. So I agree, had Rex not been hired, Tyrod wouldn't have been signed. And it would have been Cassel and EJ last year. But it still doesn't change the focus of the draft. Rex screwed up the defense and so the defense would have been the emphasis either way. So this year we would be stuck with Cassel, EJ and maybe somebody else. But who else could we have likely obtained? Maybe drafted one of the QBs in the middle rounds perhaps. And Dak isn't really the pocket passer type the team really needs.

I'm hoping that one day Cardale can develop. If the ship starts to sink, I'd like to see him tossed in there ahead of Manuel. Give him some gametime experience and see what happens. He wasn't ready to be a starter at Ohio State until he was forced into the role and they won the championship. Yes, college is different. But maybe he's one of those guys whose game is better on gameday than it is in practice. At least we can hope :banned:

 
Tyrod was pretty much unheard of up til Rex was hired. At least from the Bills fans perspective. So I agree, had Rex not been hired, Tyrod wouldn't have been signed. And it would have been Cassel and EJ last year. But it still doesn't change the focus of the draft. Rex screwed up the defense and so the defense would have been the emphasis either way. So this year we would be stuck with Cassel, EJ and maybe somebody else. But who else could we have likely obtained? Maybe drafted one of the QBs in the middle rounds perhaps. And Dak isn't really the pocket passer type the team really needs.

I'm hoping that one day Cardale can develop. If the ship starts to sink, I'd like to see him tossed in there ahead of Manuel. Give him some gametime experience and see what happens. He wasn't ready to be a starter at Ohio State until he was forced into the role and they won the championship. Yes, college is different. But maybe he's one of those guys whose game is better on gameday than it is in practice. At least we can hope :banned:
I think if Taylor goes down for any length of time over one game, it would tell us if they are writing off the season and wanting to see what Cardale has or going with EJ.  Of course if it happens in October or December has some barring too and if they are fighting for a playoff spot or not.  Cardale needs work, a lot of work from what I've heard and read about him, so in the Bills' perfect world, besides the Bills making it to the playoffs, Taylor plays all 16 games and Cardale just holds the clipboard.

 
If Cardale entered a game this year it would a disaster for both the Bills and his development.

Personally, I don't think he'll ever be an NFL starter, but who knows.

 
Sammy to IR... Awesome. That leaves us with Woods, Goodwin (soon to be injured, no doubt), Powell, Salas (banged up), and now Justin Hunter at WR. Are you kidding? That is sad.

What were we all saying back at draft time? Oh yeah... "We need OL and WR depth." Instead of addressing either area they drafted 16 players for the front 7 on defense and now the team is in shambles at WR, and the OL injuries have already taken their toll. Wonderful...

 
Sammy to IR... Awesome. That leaves us with Woods, Goodwin (soon to be injured, no doubt), Powell, Salas (banged up), and now Justin Hunter at WR. Are you kidding? That is sad.

What were we all saying back at draft time? Oh yeah... "We need OL and WR depth." Instead of addressing either area they drafted 16 players for the front 7 on defense and now the team is in shambles at WR, and the OL injuries have already taken their toll. Wonderful...
You can blame the GM. 

Or you could blame the coach who inherited a top 5 defense and couldn't do jack with it, forcing the team to revamp an already super talented defense to fit his scheme.

I know where I'm laying blame. The best coaches prioritize talent over personnel. They adjust their scheme to take advantage of their player's strengths.

 
You can blame the GM. 

Or you could blame the coach who inherited a top 5 defense and couldn't do jack with it, forcing the team to revamp an already super talented defense to fit his scheme.

I know where I'm laying blame. The best coaches prioritize talent over personnel. They adjust their scheme to take advantage of their player's strengths.
I'm with you.

Last week gave me a glimmer of hope for this season, but I'm back to hoping they lose out, fire Rex, and draft a QB. Hopefully that might be the start of a true rebuild - something we've needed for what is nearing 20 years.

 
Yeah, I'm tired of Rex. He took an azing defense and turned it into garbage because he believed in his system more than his players. The Bills messed up when they hired Rex instead of promoting Schwartz. I'm not sure that Schwartz would have been a great head coach, but at least they wouldn't have had to completely retool something that didn't need fixed. It's pretty much the height of arrogance to take something that is already great and completely change it because you believe you are that much smarter. His act has worn thin and I hope he's gone after this year.

And while I think Whaley has a great eye for talent, I think that he overlooks injury history and off field stuff to the point where it had hurt the Bills badly. The number of high draft picks or guys that got big contracts that have gotten hurt again and again or been suspended is way too high. Being able to stay on the field is one of the most important attribute a player can have. Whaley seems go ignore red flags on those things completely and the team has suffered greatly as a result. At some point, those harms outweigh the successes from a GM and need to lead to his dismissal. I'm not sure we're there yet with Whaley, but it's getting there. And I'm not sure whether it's Whaley or someone else that is in charge of the training staff/doctors, but the Bills have botched a whole lot of injury issues in the past couple of years. Two of the bigger ones being how they handled the Aaron Williams injuries last year and how they handled Watkins this year. 

 
Yeah, I'm tired of Rex. He took an azing defense and turned it into garbage because he believed in his system more than his players. The Bills messed up when they hired Rex instead of promoting Schwartz. I'm not sure that Schwartz would have been a great head coach, but at least they wouldn't have had to completely retool something that didn't need fixed. It's pretty much the height of arrogance to take something that is already great and completely change it because you believe you are that much smarter. His act has worn thin and I hope he's gone after this year.

And while I think Whaley has a great eye for talent, I think that he overlooks injury history and off field stuff to the point where it had hurt the Bills badly. The number of high draft picks or guys that got big contracts that have gotten hurt again and again or been suspended is way too high. Being able to stay on the field is one of the most important attribute a player can have. Whaley seems go ignore red flags on those things completely and the team has suffered greatly as a result. At some point, those harms outweigh the successes from a GM and need to lead to his dismissal. I'm not sure we're there yet with Whaley, but it's getting there. And I'm not sure whether it's Whaley or someone else that is in charge of the training staff/doctors, but the Bills have botched a whole lot of injury issues in the past couple of years. Two of the bigger ones being how they handled the Aaron Williams injuries last year and how they handled Watkins this year. 
Yes - I hated letting Schwartz go.  I still hate it.  So dumb.  That D was awesome.  

 
1. If you would have said we'd be 2-2 at week 4, and the two teams we'd beat would be Arizona and New England, I would have laughed in your face.

2. WTF. I was ready to throw in the towel. Fire Rex. And look at them now.

3. That said, they're still an 8-8 team at best, especially with Watkins now on IR.

4. Nice find though: Zach Brown. When Ragland comes back, having Brown and Ragland man the two ILB spots will be monstrous.

 
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1. If you would have said we'd be 2-2 at week 4, and the two teams we'd beat would be Arizona and New England, I would have laughed in your face.

2. WTF. I was ready to throw in the towel. Fire Rex. And look at them now.

3. That said, they're still an 8-8 team at best, especially with Watkins now on IR.

4. Nice find though: Zach Brown. When Ragland comes back, having Brown and Ragland man the two ILB spots will be monstrous.
Yep

Darreus and Henderson back next week against the Rams. They better win that one.

 
We all know that SOMETHING will happen to blow things up, but with the Rams, Niners, then Dolphins on deck, the Bills could conceivably be 5-2.

 
I can't believe McCoy only had 70 yards for 3.7 YPC in that game. He had a great game. I would have guessed the number would have been closer to 100 and 4.0-4.5.

 
Zach Brown is phenomenal.  He was absolutely dominate - the Bills were pretty great all around, but I thought his play in particular was all-pro worthy.  

 
Zach Brown is phenomenal.  He was absolutely dominate - the Bills were pretty great all around, but I thought his play in particular was all-pro worthy.  
I looked him up. He was a high second round pick of the Titans. Put up decent numbers for them (for an ILB), but they let him go after four years. Wonder why?

Also, he was supposedly the fastest linebacker to "ever" come out of college. Just a physical freak who relied on his athleticism a bit too much in college. He lasted until the high second round because teams were afraid he wouldn't be as good in the NFL where he couldn't get by on speed and strength alone. He needed to learn a lot of technique.

 
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I looked him up. He was a high second round pick of the Titans. Put up decent numbers for them (for an ILB), but they let him go after four years. Wonder why?

Also, he was supposedly the fastest linebacker to "ever" come out of college. Just a physical freak who relied on his athleticism a bit too much in college. He lasted until the high second round because teams were afraid he wouldn't be as good in the NFL where he couldn't get by on speed and strength alone. He needed to learn a lot of technique.
On several occasions during today's game, he caught Edelmann from behind in situations I would never thought Edelmann to be catchable.  He's more quick than speedy, but still - the speed that Brown showed was unreal.

 
On several occasions during today's game, he caught Edelmann from behind in situations I would never thought Edelmann to be catchable.  
I can think of one play in particular where I said this exact thing to my son -- "How did Edelmann get taken down behind from a LB?"  This guy seemingly went from nobody to beast overnight.

 
i remember one play in particular where Legarrette Blount was running free down the field, and Stephon Gilmore looked like a pop warner player against a pro player trying to make a tackle.  Complete "ole`" effort.

 
Just a physical freak who relied on his athleticism a bit too much in college. He lasted until the high second round because teams were afraid he wouldn't be as good in the NFL where he couldn't get by on speed and strength alone. He needed to learn a lot of technique.
I find this hard to believe.  Teams passed on a player who was a physical freak and "relied on his athleticism" and couldn't get by on speed and strength alone?

So what are you saying, they were afraid of teaching him "technique"?

 
I looked him up. He was a high second round pick of the Titans. Put up decent numbers for them (for an ILB), but they let him go after four years. Wonder why?

Also, he was supposedly the fastest linebacker to "ever" come out of college. Just a physical freak who relied on his athleticism a bit too much in college. He lasted until the high second round because teams were afraid he wouldn't be as good in the NFL where he couldn't get by on speed and strength alone. He needed to learn a lot of technique.
Another move that Whaley doesn't get credit for. 

 
Hoping that Cardinals win doesn't look like the Colts win last season, come end of year.  Rams D is going to be very tough at home.  Case Keenum seems to run around and make just enough plays to get by.  Tavon Austin and Todd Gurley still under-used.  Enjoying today. Looking forward to next Sunday.

 
i remember one play in particular where Legarrette Blount was running free down the field, and Stephon Gilmore looked like a pop warner player against a pro player trying to make a tackle.  Complete "ole`" effort.
There were several times that Bennett was running with the ball. Bills defenders were afraid to hit him. They should have forced the ball to Bennett as he was getting some great YAC because of his size and fear of being injured by tackling him.

 
I might have a couple extra tickets to sell to this weekend's game against the Rams.  PM me if anyone is interested.

 
I find this hard to believe.  Teams passed on a player who was a physical freak and "relied on his athleticism" and couldn't get by on speed and strength alone?

So what are you saying, they were afraid of teaching him "technique"?
This is what I read.

And I don't think they were afraid to teach him technique if they spent a high 2nd round pick on him. They just didn't think he was refined enough to bother blowing 1st rounder.

 
Shaq Lawson is expected back Week 7. That's excellent news. Dareus back this week. The defense has been playing great and figures to get better. 

If only Sammy's foot wasn't a mess.

 
1. If you would have said we'd be 2-2 at week 4, and the two teams we'd beat would be Arizona and New England, I would have laughed in your face.

2. WTF. I was ready to throw in the towel. Fire Rex. And look at them now.

3. That said, they're still an 8-8 team at best, especially with Watkins now on IR.

4. Nice find though: Zach Brown. When Ragland comes back, having Brown and Ragland man the two ILB spots will be monstrous.
Re #4, I agree with you, but Preston Brown is, I believe, the mic player calling most of the plays in the defensive huddle, and has been a very highly-rated player on PFF thus far.  It's a good problem to have, but I'm not sure Ragland just walks right into the starting role unless he looks absolutely phenomenal in camp next year.

 
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Re #4, I agree with you, but Preston Brown is, I believe, the mic player calling most of the plays in the defensive huddle, and has been a very highly-rated player on PFF thus far.  It's a good problem to have, but I'm not sure Ragland just walks right into the starting role unless he looks absolutely phenomenal in camp next year.
Zach Brown's on a one year deal. 

 
Re #4, I agree with you, but Preston Brown is, I believe, the mic player calling most of the plays in the defensive huddle, and has been a very highly-rated player on PFF thus far.  It's a good problem to have, but I'm not sure Ragland just walks right into the starting role unless he looks absolutely phenomenal in camp next year.
Preston played better at OLB, so if Ragland comes back strong (and they resign Zach - thanks for pointing out the one year deal Gottabe) Preston could move back outside.

 
Thoughts on Karlos Williams possibly returning?

:popcorn:
Is that in the news? I heard the Jags were looking at him.

ETA: nevermind. I saw the news in his thread. Also the workout was apparently canceled. Who knows what's going on.

 
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Is that in the news? I heard the Jags were looking at him.

ETA: nevermind. I saw the news in his thread. Also the workout was apparently canceled. Who knows what's going on.
A giant mess, I bet the Bills don't want the media circus on signing him right now after that bogus article came out about Rex and the locker room regarding his political view.  They can also be pissed that Karlos and his fiancé are leaking the news all over twitter.  His fiancé doesn't shut up and attacks fans back and forth.  It's just a bad look.  I'm indifferent about it all.  I'm fine with our three RB's - Bush will be cut soon regardless. They likely wanted to work him out without a giant spectacle of it.

 
A giant mess, I bet the Bills don't want the media circus on signing him right now after that bogus article came out about Rex and the locker room regarding his political view.  They can also be pissed that Karlos and his fiancé are leaking the news all over twitter.  His fiancé doesn't shut up and attacks fans back and forth.  It's just a bad look.  I'm indifferent about it all.  I'm fine with our three RB's - Bush will be cut soon regardless. They likely wanted to work him out without a giant spectacle of it.
It was reported before she said anything on Twitter. Someone posted on Reddit that their father works at a hotel and had booked a hotel in Buffalo. Shortly after there were beat reporters who confirmed through sources that he was scheduled for a visit tomorrow. It has since been canceled for unknown reason.

 
It was reported before she said anything on Twitter. Someone posted on Reddit that their father works at a hotel and had booked a hotel in Buffalo. Shortly after there were beat reporters who confirmed through sources that he was scheduled for a visit tomorrow. It has since been canceled for unknown reason.
Probably because it got released,  Karlos was tweeting the comeback was real etc and a bunch of stuff the day prior.  Then Schefter needs to stake his claim from the poor guy at BuffaloRumblings - Schefter ALWAYS says the player will sign after his workout to get the credit, where the guy for Buffalo Rumblings actually reported he was just here for a workout.

 
No idea what happened with the workout and frankly don't want Karlos back. If his problem was limited to just the drug thing or just the weight/laziness thing I could maybe cut him some slack, but the fact that both things became a serious issue is enough for me to rather the Bills just move on. They don't need a selfish moron like that around.

And his fiance is the capper. I would love it if the Bills told Karlos that they had had interest in bringing him back, but that with the way his fiance treats the customers (the fans) they are choosing not to bring him back.

 

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