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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
That particular decision has been really confusing to me as well. PFF actually graded Urbik as one of the better RGs in the league last year.Aaron Rudnicki said:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I'm actually optimistic about this game. I think Buffalo's defense is all sorts of trouble for Miami, especially with Albert out.
The key to the game, IMO, will be turnovers and big plays by Sammy. If the Bills can avoid the stupid penalties and awful turnovers and get 1 or 2 big plays from Sammy, then they win easily IMO.
The key to the game, IMO, will be turnovers and big plays by Sammy. If the Bills can avoid the stupid penalties and awful turnovers and get 1 or 2 big plays from Sammy, then they win easily IMO.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Sigh
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Fire this ####### moron!!!
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Should've been fired weeks ago.
It's been fun, guys. Always next year.
It's been fun, guys. Always next year.
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
Disagree. If the FGs & punts are any indication, sleeping at the office paid huge dividends.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Have to go back to Manuel next week. Orton only mattered when they were a potential playoff team. Now that they're not, you might as well give Manuel more game time.
That's the official team slogan now. Appropriate for the team with the longest active NFL playoff drought.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Hold on, I think Marrone just ordered up another punt.
If you really want to feel worse, check out this place --> http://boards.buffalobills.com/forumdisplay.php?40-General-Buffalo-Bills-Discussion
Nothing but diehards mourning the already-doomed 2015 season, the reality that our great defensive line will be gone by the time we have a competent quarterback and deliberating on just when is the best time to fire Marrone/Hackett and whether EJ should be trotted back out there as a sacrifice for the remainder of this season.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The Bills have made me so cynical that the thought actually crossed my mind this morning that 10 years from now, the people of Buffalo may hate the Pegulas for keeping the Bills there.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
And as much of a train wreck as the Bills are, I'm still in disbelief that the ref that called Hughes for the personal foul last night was the same ref that called the Bills for a personal foul for slapping their own team on the helmet in the New England game.
That the NFL assigned that crew to a must-win divisional game on Thursday night with the Bills on the road after the abomination of officiating that was the New England game is incredible.
Terry Pegula should take a dump in a box and mail it to Goodell to let him know what he thinks of that screwjob.
That the NFL assigned that crew to a must-win divisional game on Thursday night with the Bills on the road after the abomination of officiating that was the New England game is incredible.
Terry Pegula should take a dump in a box and mail it to Goodell to let him know what he thinks of that screwjob.
Amazing rant from Howard Simon on WGR this morning sums up the past 5 days perfectly...
http://d24edc7kaf4agn.cloudfront.net/1268190/99142652/1114-howard-opening-rant-on-bills-loss-99142652.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com
http://d24edc7kaf4agn.cloudfront.net/1268190/99142652/1114-howard-opening-rant-on-bills-loss-99142652.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
And Leodis McKelvin needs his butt kicked. Critical fumble that cost them the game last week, runs his mouth and guarantees a win, blows a tackle to give up a huge gain and get injured and is out the rest of the game. What a freakig bum.
Shutout
Footballguy
Man, I really thought they were going to circle the wagons last night and get that one done.
Miami is underrated, no doubt. They can play good football. But it seemed more like a case where the Bills beat themselves than the Dolphins took it.
A couple of bad critical calls, a couple of weak unballsy decisions, and that's the difference in this one.
Still, very much fun watching the Bills defense. You just don't see that many teams that can do what they do right now. Just sad they don't have a legit offensive threat to complement it.
Miami is underrated, no doubt. They can play good football. But it seemed more like a case where the Bills beat themselves than the Dolphins took it.
A couple of bad critical calls, a couple of weak unballsy decisions, and that's the difference in this one.
Still, very much fun watching the Bills defense. You just don't see that many teams that can do what they do right now. Just sad they don't have a legit offensive threat to complement it.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I actually came to post this too. Pretty good. "Russ Brandon always wants to talk about continuity. CONTINUITY? THE ONLY CONTINUITY IN THE LAST 15 YEARS HAS BEEN BAD FOOTBALL!!" (paraphrasing)
ETA - and for those unfamiliar, Howard is not some hothead screaming-type of host. I don't think I've ever heard him that angry.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don't know, they still have some dominant moments, but how many times do we have to see wide receivers wide open? How many freaking times are they going to lose contain and let RBs have huge plays to the outside? Two weeks in a row now the Bills have lost contain and let the QB run for huge gains in critical situations...on the same exact freaking play. How many stupid penalties in crucial spots is the defense going to make? Just how many times IS Gilmore going to get totally roasted out there?
That D-line is awesome to watch against the pass rush, but outside of that, the defense is pretty much a dumpster fire at this point too.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Here's another link to the Howard Simon rant, if that link above doesn't work for you (doesn't work for me): http://media.wgr550.com/a/99142652/1114-howard-opening-rant-on-bills-loss.htm
FUBAR
Footballguy
Mario
Understand that it sucks to not have your first next year, but Watkins seems to have been worth the trade.
Although, would the Bills have taken Beckham, Lewann, or someone else?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Said it over a month ago and got beat up for saying it but its true.
Signing Orton did give a quick bump as expected but unfortunately you are seeing what I warned about.
He's inscrutable as a starting QB because his stat line looks better than what you saw on the field.
Can't explain him, you have to experience it to understand why this guy hasn't stuck with teams even with the good stats.
He's not a bad guy either, no character concerns, good stats, doesn't suck but... at the end of the day he leaves a team deflated.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yep, he pretty much nailed it. I'm done with this coaching staff.
Obviously I'm unhappy with season, but I'm so much more optimistic about the future of this team than I have been in years past. The new ownership is a long run game-changer IMO. Or at least it offers reason for hope, which frankly hasn't existed for the last 15 years. When Marrone and his staff are fired, either this December or next December, we're going to be in a position to bring in somebody credible, which has not been the case before. No more Mike Mularkeys, Gregg Williamss, **** Jaurons, Chan Gaileys, or Doug Marrones who get the job simply because they were the only guy willing to take it (slight exaggeration but not too far off, maybe a little unfair to Gregg Williams).
And hopefully no more acting like a development squad for other, better teams. Let's try keeping some of our players around instead of constantly having to plug self-created holes through the draft.
Maybe Pegula will end up not making a difference, but at least he provides some cause for optimism.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Funny, I got up from the couch last night after the game all pissed off and deflated. And then I said to myself, "hey, at least they're not going to move the team". So we got that going for us.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Was watching the ESPN replays and I couldn't believe they called a safety on that Orton pass. It just looked like the WR cut in instead of out.
I think this has more to do with people thinking (hoping) the rest of the team was good enough to make a push with mediocre QB play than it was about Orton being a savior. He hasn't stuck around anywhere because he isn't very good (neither are his stats IMO). It still made sense to make the move since he is better than EJ was.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
But now you KNOW about Orton because you are experiencing it and not just hearing about it second hand.
Once you experience it then the light bulb goes on and you get it but its a learning experience.
Good points about the new ownership and going forward its looking good but you have to find the quarterback.
Short term Orton fix isn't the way to go and he will win a few more games this year but don't let it fool you.
What you saw and experienced last night is the sum total of what Kyle Orton is. Nice stat line but not the answer.
Do you think last night was the first time I've watched him play? You aren't hearing me- I've known for years that Orton isn't a great starting QB. No one is letting anything "fool me". All you have to do is read my posts to see that I think finding a long term answer at QB is priority #1.
Still not sure what you're talking about with the stat line- it certainly wasn't good last night (nor for his career).
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but skimming various headlines, I'm not seeing any mention of the impact of the refs on that game. I still can't believe the grounding, PI, and personal foul calls. I'm dumbfounded.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yes I thought last night was the first time you ever saw Kyle Orton play. Obviously you want to stew in your misery so enjoy it.
Shutout
Footballguy
I agree Orton isn't Peyton Manning or anything but , yeah, the officiating really hurt the cause. So I'm not going to hang this on Orton. The gounding call out fo the end zone was laughable. The call against Hughes was crazy. The missed fg to tie it by Carpenter was huge. Orton doesn't have anything to do with those things.
Your entire post was absurd- "but now you know because you are experiencing it and not just hearing about it", "light bulb goes on", "experience it", "don't let it fool you", "what you saw and experienced last night". Wth is the point of posting that condescending crap?
You obviously want to come pat yourself on your back for sharing your self professed infinite wisdom about Kyle freaking Orton, so enjoy it.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
The refs did make some awful calls, but the Bills got beaten pretty soundly regardless. The safety was a brutal call, but the Bills did get the ball back immediately at the Dolphins 38 after the Landry fumble. The Hughes call and the Gilmore DPI were backbreakers though as they both kept drives alive IIRC.
Bottom line is that the defense played great despite the two silly penalties. They put the Bills in position to win the game despite the bad calls. There's no excuse for the offense's performance. 21 straight drives now with no touchdowns. 0/6 for TDs in the red zone in the past 2 games. They were saying on WGR this morning, something to the effect of....the Bills ran 32 plays in the 2nd half last night for 86 total yards, and went 0/7 on third downs. Credit Miami's defense for some of that....the Bills offense got dominated last night.
dhockster
Footballguy
Curious about Bill's fans opinions on Mario Williams. He is in year 3 with the Bills and he has had 10.5, 13, and a projected 16 sacks for the 3 years. Are you happy with his production? Were you expecting
he would be more dominant? Do you think other players are doing well because defenses focus on him?
He has 3 years left on his contract after this year with cap hits of $19 million, 19.9 million, and $16.5 million. Dead money if cut for those 3 years are $12 million, $7 million, and $1 million. How long do your think
the Bills should keep him?
Overall, do you think he was worth the contract the Bills paid him?
he would be more dominant? Do you think other players are doing well because defenses focus on him?
He has 3 years left on his contract after this year with cap hits of $19 million, 19.9 million, and $16.5 million. Dead money if cut for those 3 years are $12 million, $7 million, and $1 million. How long do your think
the Bills should keep him?
Overall, do you think he was worth the contract the Bills paid him?
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Sure, they did get the ball right back, but Miami got two points.
Disagree. It was a pretty even game until that Safety. Then the wheels fell off, and despite pretty decent efforts at times the Bills couldn't keep it on the road with the refs in the way.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't know...I felt they got beaten pretty badly in the second half. I think Miami deserves some credit here....they shut the Bills down. The Bills were beaten on the field and in the coaching game. It was an evenly matched game between two evenly matched opponents, nearly a must-win game for both teams....one team showed up in the second half and the other didn't.
I think some of it has to do with it being a road game on TNF, which is always brutal, especially with the long travel for the Bills....but still.
Bills LCB Leodis McKelvin has been diagnosed with a fractured ankle.
He'll likely miss the rest of the season, as the Bills have already used their I.R./designated for return spot on C.J. Spiller. McKelvin has been a middle-of-the-pack cover corner this season, just like he has most years since being the 11th overall pick in the 2008 draft. Corey Graham will slide into the starting lineup opposite Stephon Gilmore. McKelvin is due $4 million in 2015. Nov 14 - 11:54 AM
He'll likely miss the rest of the season, as the Bills have already used their I.R./designated for return spot on C.J. Spiller. McKelvin has been a middle-of-the-pack cover corner this season, just like he has most years since being the 11th overall pick in the 2008 draft. Corey Graham will slide into the starting lineup opposite Stephon Gilmore. McKelvin is due $4 million in 2015. Nov 14 - 11:54 AM
I thought Orton would do better. The Orton we saw the first 3 or 4 starts was more in line with what I expected from him this year. The Orton we saw the past two weeks was not.
It's definitely not all his fault, but I was pretty disappointed that he came up so small in these two games.
It's definitely not all his fault, but I was pretty disappointed that he came up so small in these two games.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm not interested in #####ing about the officiating. If we were scoring red-zone touchdowns and refraining from doing stupid stuff like punting on fourth down in our opponent's territory while trailing by two scores, and we were losing close games because of a blown call, then sure. But the Bills had no problem losing this game (and last week's game) all by themselves.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Mostly this. I think it's just doubly frustrating when you KNOW that your team has major flaws but is just good enough to fall into some wins, but then bad calls just put that nail in the coffin. With the horrible O-line play, QB play and coaching, the Bills probably lose that game 8 out of 10 times. But being in the game where running the ball was more of an option maybe slows down the pass rush some and maybe the offense kicks a FG or 2 more and the Bills eek out a win. But pile on the 3 huge penalties and it goes to losing that 10 out of 10 times. And that is extra frustrating. It's absolutely true that truly good teams can overcome bad calls. But this isn't a truly good team. So bad calls end up having more of an impact.And maybe those calls happen just as often to other teams but we just feel it more because of all the losing and heart wrenching ways they've managed to lose so many big games. But it sure just feels like they take more than their share of bad calls in big situations.
ETA: All that being said, it's clear to me that Orton just isn't good enough and that Marrone is too stubborn to be a good head coach. So ultimately better to lose and clean house than hang on to Marrone for a long time or give that extnsion to Orton.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm not sure about the Orton part here because I don't know what our options are, but I've come around to agreeing with you about Marrone. I'm done with this guy. At this point, I'd rather have Jim Schwartz, not that he's our long term solution.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
The last time the Bills made the playoffs, Gretzky was still playing hockey.GroveDiesel said:
dhockster
Footballguy
OC Zed
Footballguy
He's been a very good player for the team. It's tough to say how well he has performed given that the rest of the defensive line is loaded with talent... you can take both sides of the argument as to whether that has helped or hindered his stats/effectiveness. With that being said, I have no idea whether he will see the last year or two of his contract... it's just too far out on the horizon. Next year will be a better gauge as they will likely be without Larry Hughes and/or Marcell Dareus (it's not believed that they can resign both guys).
As for fans' expectations? Well, I think a lot of people thought for that type of money that he'd be the most dominant defensive player in the league and would be a driving force in the Bills making the playoffs. That obviously hasn't been the case, but the Bills' pass rush has been exceptional in the 2 1/2 seasons he's been healthy (his wrist injury in the first half of 2012 really limited his effectiveness).
Just my opinion, but it seems like most of his sacks come in bunches... he'll have 3 or 4 dominant statistical games a year and then be quiet the other 12 games or so. But that doesn't mean in the games he's not getting sacks that he isn't having an effect on the game... he still commands double teams and playcalling around his presence on the field.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Thanks for the response. Good analysis. I pretty much see the same thing that you do, and because of that, I thought the Texans made the right move by not paying top dollar for him when he was a free agent. I think to pay a non-QB that kind of salary he has to be a dominant force 90% of the time, because at some point that mega-salary will prevent you from signing other good players (like this year with the other dlineman on the Bills). The Texans lucked out that J.J. Watt was that kind of dominant player and he filled in when Mario left.
The interesting thing about Williams, and this is no knock on him, but he really won the Contract Lotto. He was the #1 pick before the rookie wage scale, so he got about a $9 million per year contract for his first six years. Then he was a free agent in his prime at a very valuable position so he turned that into a $16 million per year contract for another 6 years. I think he will make it through at least 4 years of that contract, if not 5, before he gets cut. I think some people hold that against him that he gets paid so much, but if we are not the one's fitting the bill, why should we care.
One interesting note: Mario Williams has never played in a playoff game. He was injured his last year with the Texans when they went to the playoffs for the first time.
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